Greg Voisen
Welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. This is Greg Voisen and I'm in Encinitas. And Jonathan, Dr. Jonathan Ellerby is joining us from the British Columbia. And he is on the islands up there. And I've known Jonathan, well, it goes back more than 12 years. But we did a book together. I didn't I actually helped interview him through the book called God Works. And I was just looking on Amazon. So for all my listeners, we'll put a link to God works as well. But we're going to be talking about his new book, would you please hold that up? There you go, "The Seven Gateways of Spiritual Experience: Awakening to a Deeper Knowledge of Love, Life Balance, and God. Thank you for that for holding that up. So, now everyone can see that. I'm know that a lot of my listeners probably know you from some of your previous books, but I'm going to tell them a tad bit about you. And for those of you who want to, you can learn more about Jonathan at Jonathan Ellerby. That's e-l-l-e-r-b-y. There, you can learn about the book, which is now released in it's on Amazon. You actually can learn about his workshops, you can learn about a lot of things, but he is really kind of a rare talent. That's true. And he is a healer, and he's a consultant and extraordinary human being. When it comes to the transformative process. He's a two-time best-selling author with Hay House. Publishing, Jonathan has spoken at events along with Wayne Dyer, Deepak Chopra, Don Miguel Ruiz, Gregg Braden, Perlin Moss, Brian Weiss, Andrew while we were just talking about, and many other international icons from his work with Grammy Award winning and academic award-winning nominees, so celebrities and multinational millionaires and billionaires, CEOs to the wellness levels, groups and remote villages of South Africa. Jonathan is an expert in comparative religion focused on indigenous healing traditions and cultural cross-cultural research. And he has experienced in countless trainings in a wide range of complementary and alternative fields of healing, integrative medicine. He has been featured in film radio print multiple event forums, expert on mastering change, integrative Wellness and Resilience, mindfulness and holistic approaches. He's been featured on CBS, NBC, and better TV. And if you want to learn more, you can read the whole bio, that I was reading from it, his website, it's there. He's a wonderful man, big heart. And so, Hey, Jonathan, you know, what's just kick us off? You know, you've written other books, you've collaborated with so many people, you've really been around the wellness field and how spirituality affects us overall, when we look at mind, body and spirit, and how spirit is a big component? What led you to develop these seven gateways of spiritual experience? And why did you want to do it? And why now? Because of all the people you didn't really need another book?

Dr. Jonathan Ellerby
Yeah. Oh, those are? That's a great question. What like, why the book, not? What is it about? So? Okay, so for people listening, the book takes you through a spectrum of spiritual experiences, seven spiritual experience, types or categories. And they range from the most common to some of the most extraordinary, but what they all have in common is that we find them in all cultures, we find evidence and documentation about them around the world and throughout time. And the reason why I think this book is so important, is because I do believe that for the good of our common future, we need a more expansive model of what it means to be human, a more expansive model of the mind of the heart of our interconnectedness. And I do believe that spiritual experiences are a kind of bridge to that expanded understanding that whether you call it a paradigm shift or a new worldview, I think spiritual experiences have always served to help people to transcend the ordinary and embrace the extraordinary and in practical terms, that means healing. So Self healing, it means adaptation, it means resilience means innovation. But I do want to add a more personal side of the reason behind the book, which is whether you really motivated to evolve yourself or your journey for the common good, and to be a part of this collective evolution or not. I think that spiritual experiences make life worth living, and that they deliver us tools and perspectives that bring us to wholeness in a very, very real way, a very immediate way. In fact, there's a lot of research in the field of psychology and psychiatry that shows that many, many conditions, particularly mental health conditions, addictive conditions, and so on, are are not transformed until a spiritual experience occurs. And yet, here's the catch. People are having these experiences all the time, and they miss them. They, they don't pay attention to them, they don't reflect on them, they don't talk about them, they don't know how to integrate them. So to conclude, these seven categories will help people to see, wow, the mind is so much greater than I knew, the spiritual world is so much greater than I knew, the experiences that I have, are not those that define me as weird or other, those are experiences that connect to me. And here's how better to recognize them, work with them, and, and even integrate their meaning into our lives. So that's, in a nutshell, what the whole thing is about.

Greg Voisen
Well, and it, it brings up for me as you were talking, you know, we've all wanted to elevate consciousness, it's spoken a lot about that, right? consciousness, awareness, awareness of the events that occur in our life that are spiritual, right, and to recognize them. And a thank you, for you talking to my audience, which is in particularly pretty focused on spirituality and improving their wellness and their health and integrative medicine. What are the key characteristics of each of these seven spiritual experiences that you present in the book? And how can they contribute to one of my listeners or all of the listeners growth, and I'm gonna say, transformation. And and I want to add to this, that, you know, there's so much experimentation going on today with iOS, SCA, and various micro dosing, to try and have this experience. But you're the person that would tell somebody, you don't really need that to have the experience. And I and whether you've done that or not, or I have, it doesn't matter, the reality is you're looking at for it in everyday life, not just this one time where I go to iOS, Oscar, I microdose, something to give me this experience, granted that might set you off. But I'm really interested in finding out what are the key characteristics of each of these seven.

Dr. Jonathan Ellerby
All right, so we have time together. So I can walk through all seven, but try to be concise. Yeah, are distinct each of them in terms of what they're like, and then you're also asking, what's the value of each one? So it was that, that little journey together?

Greg Voisen
We can do that? And let's see how it goes. Okay, very good. And

Dr. Jonathan Ellerby
then maybe where we want to go after, you know, after that is, so what, what triggers them? How do we optimize the chance that we'll have them because that's a different sort of review. So we have seven. And you could think of it as a kind of pyramid in terms of what is common, what is normal. So the foundation of this pyramid is a category called truth and beauty experiences of truth and beauty. So this is the broad, everyone's having these, I believe, in some moments in some measures throughout their life. And then as we progress through the seven, you're going to hear descriptions of experiences that are less and less common, although equally as universal, and equally as available to us all. So the first category is experiences of truth and beauty. And these are really brief, aha, or breakthrough moments of wonder and awe in ordinary settings. So great example, I'm driving to the gym this morning. You know, had a very busy day. So I left a little extra early. I was frankly still a little bit disoriented, rushed out of the house. I'm just like anybody else For a full plate, but I get in the car and I hit the highway and as I connect with my breath and slow down and come more into the present moment, I just found that there was this this instance where I turned to the left and I saw the sun rising over the pine trees, filtering through the morning fog, the music on the radio on or that I was playing that just came on randomly on my phone. It all came together. And, and I was just transported for a moment. For a moment I felt expansiveness for a moment, I felt through this sort of evocative music, a sense of connection to the to the magnitude of life and art of people and what we all go through. And and then and this is just actually what happened. And then this really big freighter truck pulled right into the highway, kind of cut me off, I had to slam on the brakes, moment was over. We have those moments, people have been playing golf, they have them making love, they have them, baking bread, they have them gardening. But what happens is, the next thing comes and that brief moment is gone. We don't stop to say what just happened? What did I feel? What did life look like in that moment. And what experiences a truth and beauty reveal, if we pay attention is that no matter how narrow the moments of our life become, no matter how constricted our hearts or minds become because of stress, worry, hurt, wounding. There is always a bigger story, that we are a part of a world in which love and beauty and wisdom are really always a present. They're always present just to step away. So the value of those little aha moments, those little breathtaking moments, is that if we pay attention to them, they remind us we are not our story. We are not only what we're doing, we are not confined to our moments, and that we are a part of something expansive. And, and really, that beauty. That vibrancy.

Greg Voisen
I use an example of yesterday with the lips. Oh, lips. Yeah, right, man. So let's, let's talk about something that really makes you feel very small in a very big world, which was the total eclipse yesterday, then. Now here in Southern California, we didn't get to see much of it. But the reality was, it's like, what an aha moment that people took the time to travel to certain places to see this, you know, 31 million people or whatever the number was, it's what's important is is that got blasted out everywhere for everybody to take a pause and say, Wow, what's my significance in the bigger picture?

Dr. Jonathan Ellerby
Yeah, exactly. That you nailed it. And, and it was, you know, for some people yesterday, I got messages, texts, and they said, Wow, I didn't see it. But look at these NASA photos. And then little comments, like what a world we live in. And the reason why this is so valuable, and we can certainly move on to the next one is that even those these are fleeting moments. If you cultivate present moment awareness and mindfulness, you are more likely to have these possibly every day. And when you have them, savor them, and ask yourself, what is this showing me? And how does this help me face what's next? More often than not, our greatest challenges are made more challenging by the narrowing of attitude and mind and heart. And these little moments of wonder, opened us up. And we remember, there's much more going on.

Greg Voisen
And I really think Jonathan, it's about being aware when they occur. You know, it's one thing like you could have been driving your car and been totally not present. And not been aware of that. Or you can choose to be present. And that leads us to probably the second one because you said there's seven going up. Because we really have to practice certain things in our life, to create that level of awareness. Whether it's bits of solitude, or meditation, or prayer, or energy healing or yoga, or whatever the practices are, we have, we've got to use those practices to become more aware. So I'll let you get on to the next one.

Dr. Jonathan Ellerby
The next one? No, it's great. Next one also occurs in ordinary settings. So it's called ordinary magic. and ordinary magic is when we have an experience that is unexplainable. But it occurs in an ordinary scenario, ordinary meaning we're not in a religious setting. We're not in a spiritual setting. We're not involved in some spiritual practice, but something happens that blows our mind. So some great examples would be extraordinary synchronicities. This is probably the most easily accessible example of ordinary magic, the chance, I often tell the story about this, this old friend that I started thinking about while I was traveling and to frankly, too, he and I don't live in the same place anymore. I was in an airport where he doesn't live and I was traveling to a place that he doesn't live, but it was something about the airport. That reminded me of my past. I was thinking of him. Long story short, I ran into him that day in that airport, and the statistical improbability that is extreme.

Greg Voisen
synchronicities. Yeah, so

Dr. Jonathan Ellerby
synchronicity is a great entry point to ordinary magic. But I include other things like spontaneous remissions, radical healings. You know, these kinds of encounters in which someone, you know, I know a woman, for example, that I've worked with who was given a year long diagnosis, or a diagnosis of a year to live with cancer. And about five years later, same woman was given five months to live. 15 years later, she was good, I'm not kidding. So her journey of having a few months left to live ultimately lasted over 20 years. She's 83 right now. So this point, cheese is gonna die of old age. But good for her. No one understands it. Right. So ordinary magic, but you've got to look for it. Again, don't dismiss it. When someone tells a story. Ask a question. When something is curious, pay attention. And be on the lookout?

Greg Voisen
Where do you put signs and symbols and stop signs and noticing things in our environment that actually trigger something because we were aware, it's one thing to see a stop sign, and go, Oh, it stops. I just went through it or to see a billboard, or to see a bird fly by or to see any of these things. Right. So my question for you is, when do we use that intuition that comes from a higher source to really pay attention to those things? And what are they telling us about what's going on in our life? Well,

Dr. Jonathan Ellerby
Greg, you constantly reveal your your decades of understanding. That is it if people practice what I call symbolic sight, to look for the symbolism, the metaphors, the meaning in those synchronicities those moments, not just wild events, but the moment like you're saying, where, you know, you wish for a sign, and then all of a sudden, an owl flies in front of your car, or, or you're trying to decide if you should stop or go when you pull up to the stop sign, and it's fallen over. But you know, it should be standing, you know, that go sign, right. Like, I would say that that's, that is this category, ordinary magic. And the idea is that we live in a magical world very simply, that there is more interplay between the spiritual, the mysterious, the higher dimensions of reality than we might ever consider and the values of ordinary magic. In other words, like you ask, why is it good for us hope? And guidance? Or meaning, right, hope and Guidance means I think the way the world I think the world works one way. And now that this has happened, I'm reminded, maybe not. Maybe extraordinary things are always possible. They don't always happen. But they are always possible.

Greg Voisen
Well, they don't always happen the way you expect them to happen, but they usually happen. It's the fact that you have an expectation, and it brings me to this off the wall question, but I know it's when you can feel because you said let's go anywhere, anywhere. And you know, I remember this. My dad died many, many, many years ago, but the Native American traditions, as you know, have lots of symbolism, signs, stories. And we as a western world kind of lost a lot of this along the way, right? And you're a guy who studied all of this. So my dad's in the hospital, and there's an owl outside the window. And he knew about Native American tradition and the owl because you just mentioned an owl and he says I'll be here As long as the owl is here, the owl left and he died. Like literally, within hours. I mean, I tell this story because this is true and real and even said it to me. He said, Greg, as soon as that owl leaves, that's when I go. Now, you got to say, Well, maybe he put it in his mind that that's what he was going to do, or what was the symbol? But the reality is, that's a pretty telling kind of thing. And it meant a lot to him. Yes,

Dr. Jonathan Ellerby
absolutely. It's a fabulous story. It's a great example of ordinary magic. Why is it called ordinary magic, because he was in an ordinary place a hospital, he was doing an ordinary thing, which is dying. And an owl is is an organ, it's a bird, that was a real thing. He didn't make it up, it was there, anyone could see it. But there's something genuinely magical about it. And, and so these kinds of experiences connect us to the realization that spirituality is not just about belief, it's not a logical projection, we are in relationship with a world that is much more dynamic, much more intelligent, and, and much further beyond our grasp than we might know. Now, I'm going to tell you a quick personal story. That reminds me of your story. And then we're going to leap into category three, because they're connected. I know

Greg Voisen
we're going to get to three. And then when you're at what I want you to keep this in mind, this isn't a compound question. But what role to the personal beliefs, values and assumptions that we have play in shaping our experiences of this spiritual world? Because, you know, that was my dad's belief. Right, right. And so I'm wondering this, how are these interconnected? Yeah. And I think our listeners would like to know that too, because they're not like sitting here going, Well, I see the seven steps. Well, they don't. There's these these seven gateways, I should say, but you're going up the path to number three right now, because that's where we are. So let's get on with it and see what that is. Alright, so I've, on the edge of my chair,

Dr. Jonathan Ellerby
I've written a note about the belief and the role of belief, which we're going to talk about, after my story and description of category three. So my story is somewhat similar to yours, or I think, related, in a way was that my dad, of quite some time ago was being cared for at home. He was in the final stages of his his experience of cancer. He wasn't expected to live much longer, but he was kind of at that end stage where could have been days could have been weeks could have been months. No one. And my mom and I was at their home sitting out in the backyard. This is this is quite literally, non exaggerated story. We're sitting there in the backyard talking and we look over the part of the house that he's staying in, in a hospital bed. It's a den. One, one room, one story room, nothing above it, just the roof. And my mom says, Well, what is that? And we look over it, and there is a peacock, a peacock on the roof over my dad. Now we didn't live in India, we didn't live in the Costa Rica. There are wild peacocks where we live? Could it have escaped from a zoo? Sure, could have some maniac who collects peacocks had it in the back of his truck. Okay, okay. All that's possible. And at the time, I was, as I have been immersed in indigenous communities. And my mom said, What do you think that means? And I said, well, in the world that I'm a part of, probably something significant is going to happen with dad in the next four days. And four days later, he passed, just like that. You can't make this stuff up. So let's jump from ordinary magic into the third category, which is spirit world experiences. And they're very connected, because ordinary magic seems to point us towards the possibility that there is something out there that is more than us more than imagination, and more than belief, but we'll talk about the role of belief. So spirit world is a category is an experience of any being that doesn't really have a physical body, although maybe shows up in a body once in a while, like that mysterious person at the gas station that saves you you know from you know, the bad people. I mean, I I've had hundreds of stories of that from people, strange people who show up, protect them in a dangerous moment and disappear completely. Even Even people who tell stories about being in hospitals, and strange people coming to the room, turning on a machine that was forgotten, giving them water when they needed it, and then disappearing and no one ever seen them again. It can be physical, but more often than not, this might be in a dream, this might be in a meditation, it might be in a kind of waking visualization. In the spirit world experiences, though what's unique in this sort of approach is it's anything that's a being and that would include Jesus or Krishna, or an Ascended Master or an angel. What defines this category? Is there is a, a being with its own intelligence, its own gifts, its own capacity to interact. And whether you believe it or not, it shows up for you. Now, two quick, well, quick story. And then let's talk about belief. Is belief necessary for an experience of spirit world? Or any of this? And the answer is no. And yes, so let's deal with know, my dad, same guy, same cancer journey. About six weeks before the story I just told maybe maybe two months, he was in a wheelchair, again, being cared for at home. Much better condition, obviously, it feeding himself eating, sitting at the kitchen table with my mom. And he looks up and he's, wait, before I give you the next step. My dad was the most rational, materialistic, non spiritual, didn't believe in that stuff. Religion was a tool and a weapon of politics, not into any of this. Okay. So that's the proper context. And it just so happens that the night before I happened to be at an indigenous ceremony, a sweat lodge, and then went home thinking about my dad a lot. And what I was wondering is like, almost to your point, gosh, you know, indigenous people pray to their ancestors for help, and they show up and help them. How can white folks can't pray to their ancestors. So that night before bed, a little candle, kind of got down on my knees, so to speak. And I made a prayer to my to my dad's dad, my grandpa, and they said, Grandpa, like, I don't know if you can hear this. I don't know if this is going to work. But what's the deal? How come all the Native people have helped from their ancestors, and we don't have any. And all I knew was that my dad, Mr. Rational, was really struggling with the end of his life, and scared of what was next. You know, he was a very competent person, but it was obvious. He was becoming agitated. I went to bed. Next day, get home from my university classes, a phone call from my mom. My mom says, Jonathan, I gotta tell you what happened this morning. I was sitting at the breakfast table with that. He looks over my shoulder and says, Do you see him? She says, What are you talking about? He says, my dad. My dad is standing in the kitchen by the stove. He described him in vivid detail. And my mom said, What is he there? For? What what's he doing? And my dad cynical, says, I think he wants me to know it's going to be okay. That day forward, he was at peace with his journey. He didn't believe in it. But it happened. And I believe that is absolutely real. So, belief potentiate. It's the opportunity for spiritual experience in my PhD. I was working with traditional healers in South Africa and South Dakota. And there's no question that in the indigenous world, they understand that the mind is a mechanism for transformation. It is not the evaluator of reality, right? It's a participant in reality. So if you believe something, it is more likely to happen. Or if you believe in a realm or reality than that reality will utilize your belief as a perceptive vehicle. But as my story about my dad indicates, it's not necessary. And I know that there are 1000s of people that will listen to your show, this show and other of your shows, who never expected something like this to happen, and they have stories too. And what about

Greg Voisen
what is the role of we talked about genuine spiritual experiences. And then I don't really know how to put this but potentially deceptive, or harmful influences. So I look at the term discern. Yeah, well, the discernment to me from a psychological standpoint, sounds like I'm using my physical world reality and my brain to think of it when usually spit virtual experiences. I'm not saying they're not connected. But the question is, are they interrelated? So, my question for you with this is, what would you advise the listeners out there? You know, look, we're on three. So there's four more to go. And I want to get to them. But I also think that some of this is experience, whether we get is important whether we get or not. Right? So the question then becomes, is somebody out there who gets that sign? And they're, they don't pay attention? Or they do pay attention? What does that mean?

Dr. Jonathan Ellerby
Well, I think you've wrapped a few questions in one. So I'll try to I have, I usually do that. That's okay, that's good. I'm going to try to be focused for once and pick through them. So the first thing is, whatever the spiritual experience, your intuition and your heart must be a part of your evaluation. Doesn't feel so if you accept that it's happened. But it doesn't feel right, or you don't feel ready, or it somehow feels compromising or scary. I would say, get help. Talk to someone, ask for advice. Do some research. Just because a sign has been given from the spirit world, or a spirit shows up in a dream. Just like getting advice from a therapist or a doctor or an exercise physiologist, doesn't mean you're fully equipped to put it to work right away. Sometimes you need time. Sometimes you need more perspective, sometimes you need a second opinion. So always vet the spiritual experience, through your integrity through your heart, through your intuition. That's the first piece, the second piece, is it possible to have spiritual experiences that are dangerous, or hurtful or scary? Yeah, I mean, ultimately, if this is real, and there's another world out there, then sure anything that can help that can hurt. But to that, I would say generally speaking more often what we are afraid of is not something scary, but something that scares us. And the difference is scary suggests there's something in it that's wrong or bad or evil. I'd say more often than not, we are just unnerved by spiritual experiences, because they break with Norm. They challenge our identity, they challenge our assumptions about how the world works. That's what makes most of the experiences scary, they threaten the ego. On the other hand, are their dark forces, which to me was somehow hidden question inside what you were asking? Or can we have experiences that might be harmful or are not worth following? I'm very cautious about the way I answer this, because I don't like to feed the belief in evil and those sorts of things. But I will say, it is my experience that there are certainly spiritual forces that seem to amplify our weakness. And I prefer to just leave it at that and say, good example of that power of belief. Don't give it energy, put your energy on goodness, on healing on light. Because there is nothing in spiritual world that's more powerful than you. Because you've been given the gift of a body. And choice and mind and heart, your density makes you powerful, you don't need to will a pen to fly across the room, you could just pick it up and throw it. So even if you feel a spooky force in the room, only your mind gives it power. It has no ultimate power, because you've been given the greatest privilege.

Greg Voisen
And I think that's the most important thing that you've really said is that, you know, you use that example of the lady that's now 85 years old. That was such an insightful example. Because you literally said, hey, look, somebody told her some doctor told her, Well, you have six months, you got three months. Now, you you now you're 20 years later, you're still here. She's a perfect example, who did not allow the way the information was received to influence her ultimate outcome? Now, some people say well, and I don't want to go deep into this. But you know, in the Akashic records, was it written that she wasn't supposed to do that? Right. So, I mean, you know, you're saying that things come across whether they're scientific or not. We have the opportunity, and you mentioned it earlier. spontaneous remission. Right. Does it occur? It certainly does occur. It's written about all the time. So you know, when you get that diagnosis, how you look at it is really probably how it's ultimately going to affect you. Yes,

Dr. Jonathan Ellerby
and I think what you're pointing to words is that the journey of wellness is not a journey of control. It is a journey of optimizing possibility and potential, which means my family has a history of heart conditions, there is a certain genetic predisposition, I cannot change, but I can change 100 other choices that may diminish that impact. And I believe that those choices and changes are not only physical, but their mental, emotional and absolutely spiritual. So, you know, quick, quick other example, I just had a call this morning, coaching call was someone who just has a new cancer diagnosis, and they found a large tumor. And I said, Well, okay, so one thing I want you to commit to is that we are not going to talk about how cancer has you, we're going to talk about you in the future after this. And we're going to utilize the power to overcome and picture you beyond it, you are not your illness, you are not your poverty, you are not your childhood, these things influence you. But to your point, the mind is a powerful element.

Greg Voisen
Yes. And with that, I'll let you move on to four.

Dr. Jonathan Ellerby
All right, so number four, and and we can kind of accelerate the last two because they're they're very similar in categories. Number four, is called the experience of the cosmic self. Now it sounds sounds really grand, but again, universal cross cultures throughout time. And this is the phenomena of experiencing yourself beyond your body. So think out of body experiences, think astral travel, think of lucid dreaming, so you feel that you are you but you are not confined to your body. In that experience, the most prevalent and sort of attention grabbing experiences are near death experiences, virtually all near death. experiencers have a kind of out of body experience in which they describe themselves, but the body's left behind. So this is an experience that allows us to consider our own magic, our own complexity, our own capacity to be more than what's been done to us or what's happened to us. And so whether it's again, astral projection, out of body experience, near death experience, dreamlike experiences of our spiritual nature, these experiences compel us to see that we are so much more than what we've ever been taught. And certainly, than anything that's happened to us. So that's, you know, that's in a nutshell, easy to encapsulate, I don't know if you have a question. Ready to well,

Greg Voisen
you know, I, I believe that we all have experiences in our life as we go along. The older you get a be, the more of them you have, that allow you to have that out of body experience, because you let go of so much of the I'm just gonna call it Maya that exists, you know that the things that we have that every day we deal with, like you said, this morning, I woke up, I rushed down, I want to get to the gym, bla bla bla bla bla bla bla. And the more we give ourselves time for that meditation salience, the more opportunities we bring up to have experiences which are supernatural. Right there

Dr. Jonathan Ellerby
and the useless Yeah, absolutely, and the fabulous mechanism. And you've talked to other experts and professionals about physical wellness, basic ingredients of peak performance, they crossed the lines in all human dimensions. In other words, if you're a whatever, a football player, basketball player, even a concert pianist, you practice and practice and practice, so that when you must perform, everything comes naturally. And if there's a setback, or a challenge or something expected, you automatically know what to do, those behaviors come easily. So in a similar way, if we pray every day, if we meditate every day, if we practice, guided imagery every day, if we do energy work every day, or any or all of these kinds of things. If we practice being mindful every day, then we are more likely to fall into these experiences and have the natural capacity to hold them. And instead of run from them, Fear from them feel threatened by them. Accept them, be curious, invite them in. And that's interesting. Because the next category is experiences of the energy world, and or divine energy is what the chapter is called in the book. Again, on a spectrum, you might take time to study energy, healing, Reiki, even reflexology would count, therapeutic touch, healing, touch, quantum touch all kinds of stuff. And you begin to learn the language of energy medicine, you begin to sense the subtle energies of the body. These are important. These are six, would you

Greg Voisen
put somatic breathing in there as well? My question for you is, there's a big rush right now on, you know, obviously, somatic breathing and conjunction with let's just call it saunas. Right? Let's, let's go take a sauna, then let's jump in a cold ice cubes, then let's go do somatic breathing. And I think somatic breathing. I'm not saying it doesn't get it's just do. But I will say based on the people that I've spoken with recently, like sage, he has neuro acrobatics is what he calls it, Sage rate rater. That, wow, the experiences people are having, just by breathing is out of this world.

Dr. Jonathan Ellerby
So So here's an interesting thing about our culture. Our culture likes nouns, not verbs. So they want to make everything a thing. They want to study ayahuasca, they want to study psilocybin, they want to study breathing, they want to jump into the cold water, they want to get into the hot box. All of those things matter. All of those things can work. But what you're pointing us towards is what are people experiencing that makes them come back to it? Because it's not just the physiological benefits? And breathwork absolutely could bring you to any one of these experiences all some somatic breathwork Holotropic breathwork yogic pranic pranayama, no question. This is probably the most time honored vehicle to access spiritual states. And let's just go one step deeper. The other end of the spectrum of energy is when people actually experience a direct visual of the energy world or even dissolve into it. So in the psychedelic experiences, very often, these plant medicines are catapulting people into a mode of perception in which nothing exists, but energy. And we start to feel or perceive analogies with the quantum realm, or the subtle energy realm in the world of physics. And ultimately, what it helps us to understand is the vast interconnection of life, and the reality that our reality is perceptive. And that there are always deeper and deeper layers that not only humble us and put things in perspective, but empower us to participate and use our energy to interface with the energy of others. If people simply learned energy awareness alone, I do believe their physical, mental and emotional lives would be transformed and spiritual experiences would be frequent. I

Greg Voisen
think the vibration at which we appear to go I mean, look, it's like a vibratory attunement. Are you going to operate at a high vibrational level? And if you do, you're going to be more attuned to that. So number six, and number seven, you said, we're kind of close together and let you finish. And then I have one last question to kind of wrap up our podcast here. But let's let you get in sixth and seventh,

Dr. Jonathan Ellerby
right, right. So six and seven are such vast categories that they're actually easily easily summarized in simple terms. Because it'll begin to pull them apart as a whole, you know, lifetime of study. These are what academics would classically call the mystical experience. Now, some people use that word for all this. But the mystical experience, academically speaking, is the felt sense that you have contacted the ultimate nature of reality. So in the formless spirit experience, category six, we perceive in some way, the consciousness, the energy, the presence, that is behind all things that all things come from. It is often described as an enlightenment experience or experience of God, or, you know, the substance of all things. It's unifying, it's inspiring. It is transcendent, but the experience of pure consciousness, possibly the most unusual, but again, universal, and and timeless. The last of the seven categories is the experience of pure consciousness. This is when We slipped into the very formless energy, that is all things. And in that dissolving of boundaries or identity barriers, we quite literally, as the mystic, say, become one with all things right? defines what defines seven from six in the categories is in the moment of pure consciousness, you don't even have awareness of yourself to say, I am seeing this, when we come out of it, we are able to say, Wow, I was that it was me. And I provide quite a descriptive example of what that's like in the book.

Greg Voisen
Well, and I think, you know, look, it's these seven gateways of spiritual experience that you're writing about. And you did a really great job of explaining it to the listeners. And I'm going to encourage them all to go get the book, we're going to have a link to Amazon, you're also going to go to Jonathan's website at Jonathan ellerby.com. There, you can read an excerpt from the book, you can actually see the book itself, and then go to Amazon, you can read the description there. Also, he's got two things, he's got the Africa experience, which I want you to click on, as well, because he's going to be leading a, I'm not even gonna call it a retreat, but maybe I'll call it a retreat. Yep. And do check out his websites. I'm very serious about this. I've known Jonathan a long time, there are certain people that are truly the heart of this work, and he is one of them, he definitely has a big heart for the work. It's dedicated his whole life to writing about this, having people experience it having people want to heal as a result of it, because he's been really deep into the wellness. And so with that being said, what are your hopes and aspirations for the impact of this particular book? Not all the predecessor books, but let's just say this sat on a shelf by itself on the readers, and really the broader spiritual seekers and spiritual community.

Dr. Jonathan Ellerby
Beautiful question and the perfect question to end on for me, which is, I feel passionately that the well being of individuals, communities, and our world requires, as you have taught, and as so many of your guests have said, it requires a radical reimagining of what it means to be human, what we accept as normal, what our fundamental worldview and paradigm is, and through this book, I hope that people will reclaim the centrality of spirit in that future. And by spirit, I don't mean something flaky or insubstantial, I mean, the significance of intuition in that future, love and kindness in that future, mutually out mutuality and stewardship in that future, creativity and innovation in that future, and the passion to work with the laws of nature, and not perpetuate this relentless fight against them.

Greg Voisen
I think the against SNESs is what is the big challenge that we all listen to Jonathan, and get the seven gateways of spiritual experience. But I want to add something because every time I hear the Dalai Lama, he I have a foundation called compassionate communications foundation. He's always using the word compassion. And he said, If there's anything that's going to heal our world as we know it, it's going to be the ability to people to have empathy and compassion. Now, I just had Judith Orloff on here, who's an empath speaking about that. And I've yet to have the Dalai Lama on but he's gonna come on. It's, I believe it's a matter of time, just a matter of time. But my point is, is that compassion for our fellow human beings and our self, self compassion in this whole process of our personal growth? And our experience is so important.

Dr. Jonathan Ellerby
Greg, I'm going to squeeze in a quick emphasis. How do we get to the depth of compassion necessary for the changes needed? I think we can do healing work. We can do self work. There's all kinds of tools, but there's substantial evidence that nothing catapults us into a lived feeling of interconnection and loving service as spiritual experience. So people want to jumpstart that future for themselves or our world, I do believe it's time to cultivate a deeper connection with self with others, and the world beyond ours.

Greg Voisen
And there's two things that only prohibit one from doing that. One is they say, time, we all have the same amount of time. And the second thing is investment. I'm gonna say an investment in a $12 book, or whatever this book costs is very inexpensive investment for you to go on the road and path and figure it out. So what I would say is investment for most of you listening isn't an obstacle that you're going to be challenged with investment or time. I think everybody needs to allocate the time to practice these experiences to understand what they are, and definitely go to Jonathan's website. This is my big Yahaya Jonathan, because he is certainly the most compassionate loving guy I've met doing this work. So go out and meet him. Jonathan. Thanks, Namaste to you. Thanks for being on onsite personal growth, and sharing your experiences and your wisdom and years of doing this work and health and healing and spirituality. You are a blessing to all of my listeners and myself. Thanks. Wow.

Dr. Jonathan Ellerby
Well, thank you, brother, and much love and blessings back to you. And we'll see you again..

Greg Voisen
And all the listeners out there.