Greg Voisen
Welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. This is Greg Voisen, host of Inside Personal Growth. And joining me from Austin, Texas is Jim Cathcart. And Jim and I have known each other for almost goes back to the days when I was in million dollar round table and doing insurance work. Not that I still don't have those licenses I do for all my listeners, but I'm not doing much work in that arena. I'm really I've kind of pulled back from that. Jim, good day to you. How are you doing?

Jim Cathcart
I'm doing wonderful. It's a great day in Austin.

Greg Voisen
It's always a good day in Austin, you got a lot of people that have moved there now because they love what's going on.

Jim Cathcart
I moved into Wimberley, which is just south of Boston on the way to San Antonio.

Greg Voisen
Oh, my goodness. Well, you know, it's, I've been there many times in the university draws a lot of great people. And you guys have a great city there until it gets too hot, then I can't handle it.

Jim Cathcart
Then it's time for San Diego again. Because that's one of the things

Greg Voisen
I could say is I can always just, I'm in Encinitas. So I don't have to go so far. But let our listeners know a little bit about you. There's probably people out there who listen to the show that don't know who you are. And then there's going to be some that aren't. But we're going to be talking about a book that he co-wrote called intelligent curiosity. Would you like to hold that up, please. And Lisa Patrick was the co-author on that book as well. The two of them. He has 26 books now to his name, and I'm going to tell him a little bit about your background, because I think it's really important is one of the top five most award-winning speakers in the world. His top 1% TEDx video has 2.7 million views. His 26 books are translated into multiple languages, including three international bestsellers. He's a certified virtual presenter, and the past a National President of the National Speakers Association. Jim's PBS television programs, podcast appearances, and radio shows have reached millions of success seekers. And he is often retained to advise achievers, and their companies advise their companies I'm sorry. Even his colleagues, some of the top speakers in the world have hired Jim to speak at their own events. He is an executive MBA professional at professor at the California Lutheran University School of Management, and he serves as their first entrepreneur in residence. He's been inducted into the sales and marketing Hall of Fame in London for his pioneering work with his concepts of relationship selling. He's also in the professional speakers Hall of Fame and has received the covenant Award and the golden gavel award. Did I say it Kevin Cabot can have it Robert Cabot,

Jim Cathcart
last name covet. Like Dick Cavett is the first name. There

Greg Voisen
you go. Well, for my listeners, that's that's a long bio, but it's worthy. He's definitely worthy of that bio. And this book that we're talking about, if you want to learn more about Jim, we were going to have a link to his website. But you're just gonna go to Cathcart ca th car t.com. There you can learn about. He's got a podcast, you can learn more about Jim. And he's also got a course so mentioned something about that really quickly. Because I think that's one of the things that we want to put a link to jam is that course that you have for $99 that anybody can get.

Jim Cathcart
There's a company out of Dallas area called corset fi co you are si fyx.com. And if you go to course of phi.com/acorns, plural acorns, then it takes you to the landing page for this video course. And it's a personal coaching course that I do. And it is only $99. So it's a very inexpensive and easily accessible course but it helps you no matter what level you're at in your career, especially at the more advanced levels to get more and more laser focused on the things that will move the needle for you in your career and in in the fields that you're pursuing. So we'll definitely

Greg Voisen
put a link to that in the blog for it. We're going to put a link to my listeners. So they know in the blog, you'll also see the link, a link in our list LinkedIn page where we put the snippets, so that people know we'll have a link to that as well. Well, let's get into intelligent curiosity, not just curiosity, because I think, you know, look, if you're a CEO of a company, or you're, or a creator of any type, you're curious, you have to be curious. I've been a guy who has been curious all my life. And I will say, I'm happy that I was because there's fascinating things that happen when you're curious, and you want to ask questions like I do on this podcast show. So the premise of intelligent curiosity is pretty fascinating. Can you share what sparked you and Lisa, to really write the book, and why you believe intelligent curiosity, and I want to underline intelligent curiosity is crucial in this, what I would call always on fast paced world that we live in today.

Jim Cathcart
Curiosity is basically part of being alive. You know, when you walk into a strange room, you're naturally curious. But are you intelligent about your curiosity, for example, let's say you and I go to a networking event, or one that could be a networking event. And we're just going because we happen to be in town, there's a conference going on in our hotel, we go down to the lobby, and we see it, and it's open. So it's not something we have to pay to attend. And we walk into the room while most people walk into the room, they look around, they look for the refreshments or look for somebody famous, and they gravitate toward that. But a person with it, who's practicing intelligent curiosity, has asked him or herself, why am I here? What matters to me most what possible opportunities could exist? It's like in I've got a friend who is a coaching client of mine, he was a ER doctor trained in emergency techniques for in hospitals. And he said, the first thing we're taught is when you walk into an ER, when there's a patient in there that needs attention. We're taught don't just focus on the patient. Read the room. Notice the whole setting. What

Greg Voisen
sounds like sounds like a good speaker, like yourself, read the room, right? I mean, you've spoken before millions of people. And the reason Yes, well, yeah. But the reason you're so connectable is that you know how to connect to them, I think was one set. I don't remember who said this, Jim, maybe it was you. But I'm going to make a quote,

Jim Cathcart
was probably move. It's a good one. Yeah. It was

Greg Voisen
a speak to the audience, as if you were in a theater, watching a movie, and speaking to your best friend right next to you about what was going on in the movie. And when you can make that kind of connection. It's really quite interesting, because you know, you're watching a movie with a friend. And the reality is, it's that intimacy that you're trying to create, and you are a master at that. And in the book, you talk about converting innate curiosity into a skill. How do you see this transformation happening in a practice? And can you provide an example kind of from your own life, where intelligent curiosity led to some kind of significant personal or professional growth? You

Jim Cathcart
bet. When I went to the First National Speakers Association meeting in Louisville, Kentucky, in 1978, the first one for me, there had been a couple before that. It was a newly formed organization for professional speakers. And I was there as a rosy cheek kid, with very little mileage, but I was big, I had become pretty successful. So I was doing almost 100 speaking engagements a year, but wasn't known widely. And these were all my heroes, the big kids, you know, this was, this was the seniors table and I was a freshman. And I walked into the convention center, and I looked around, I saw all these people. And, of course, my tendency was to go over and stand near them and just pick up a little bit of their essence. You know, catch the vibe, but I didn't do that. I went over to the registration desk, to the man that was checking people in his name was Bill Johnson. And I said, I'm Jim Cathcart. It's my first time here. I don't know anybody or how this works. Is there some way I can be helpful? He said, What do you mean? I said, Well, you need anything done that you don't have somebody to do it? He said, Well, yeah. He said, Could you go put these signs on the meeting room doors down there? And I said, Sure. So I went down and did that. And I came back, got my registration material. And then I went over and I stood near the group that seemed to be the most substantial group in the room, because I just wanted to eavesdrop. And they invited me into the group, you know, they saw me and they opened their circle up and to come in here, who are you? I said, I'm Jim Cathcart. And they said, Well, tell us about yourself. Thank heavens, Greg. I had the presence of mind not to, because I had nothing to say. I was a nobody. I told him very little, you know, where I was from and what kind of work I did. And then immediately asked questions, you know, asked him about them. What were you talking about when I walked up? Or what what seems to be the biggest issue today? You know, the questions that would throw it back to them, because I wasn't there to tell. I was there to learn. And I found that doing that caused me to be immediately embraced and accepted among people. I was definitely not appear of yet.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, well, you know, this. You know, this statement. People don't care how much you know, unless you they know how much you care. That's right. So yeah, well, that's a Zig Ziglar quote, but you know, it's not your aptitude that determines your altitude, it's your attitude. I mean, look, every one of these things that we're talking about here, it's timeless rate, we, I don't care what error you're in, you could be 50 years old, 30 years old, or 80 years old. All of these are applicable. And that's what I love about the content that you put in most of your books, is it? Let

Jim Cathcart
me know what you mentioned, Lisa Patrick, my co author. And the reason she's co author, she said she wanted to do something with me professionally. And I said, Well, Lisa, you're a former private investigator. Why don't we do a book on intelligent curiosity? And she said, that's who she was. Right? Yeah. You know, and

Greg Voisen
she emphasizes this concept of eligible receiver. Yeah, for opportunities. That's, you know, she's contributed to this book a lot. And I know what it's like when you co write a book, it's really a sometimes it's more challenging than when you just write it on your own. But the reality is, it's a kind of opportunity to grow beyond yourself, you know, I just co authored one called the precipice of life. And there were three of us. But can you elaborate on the metaphor and how we can cultivate the mindset and behaviors of an eligible receiver?

Jim Cathcart
You bet I got that idea. In the first place from Earl Nightingale, the Dean of personal motivation, I used to listen to his audio cassettes, which tells you how long ago it was me too. Yeah, every single day, I bought a $560. Earl Nightingale audio library of 36 cassettes in 1974, when they were 73, maybe when my personal income was 525 a month. So today, that would be like $3,500, that I paid for these recordings. And I was fanatical about listening to those every day. And the basic idea I got that kind of encapsulated the whole series was if you will develop the qualities, the traits of the person you want to become, then the things you want to do and have will come along with it. So if you become an eligible receiver, meaning you're downfield in the open, and have the skills to catch and run with the ball, they will throw you the ball, if you're downfield in the middle of a crowd, and not a particularly good catcher anyway, they're not going to throw the ball to you. Right? So yeah, I'm eligible for the opportunities you want. By learning the skills you don't need yet. Yet. By becoming the kind of person other people want to have as a neighbor, the kind of person that other people would love to have on their team, becoming the kind of person that if someone were really in trouble, they would turn to you.

Greg Voisen
Well, look, you're the kind of person and I don't know if I have this absolutely 100% Correct. But you you didn't grow up with a golden spoon in your mouth and you had a job when you were young. Before you became a speaker and hopefully I get this correct. But it was more of like a government job of some type was it was it or wasn't not making much money, but Well, the thing about you is you had grit determination and You wanted to be a speaker. So you listening to Cohn ad, or Norman Vincent Peale, I used to run around in my car with cassette tapes with Norman Vincent Peale playing all the time, right? And I, you know, and Nightingale and and the list goes on. And so I say to you, you know, maybe people can learn from just your determination and your grit, because literally you spoke at every event, you could get to whether it paid or didn't pay. And, and people ask, Well, how did he get to where it is? Because he put in the time, he put in the energy put in the effort. He learned from some of the greatest people around and really when you look at intelligent curiosity, that is the quintessential definition of intelligent curiosity, is you wanted to make the connections with with all the people, right?

Jim Cathcart
Thank you. Yeah, I was born in Little Rock, Arkansas. And my dad was a telephone repairman. And we didn't know anybody with money, and we didn't have any money. And I didn't graduate college, I had two years college, and I got married in 1970. And we had a baby and I was working in 72 as a clerk at a at the Housing Authority in Little Rock that was it, clerk murder all night and get on the radio and got inspired. Now I Greg I had had 44 Zero 40 different jobs, from the time I was a kid. Until that time, wow, 40, I worked at everything for six months, or a year or two years, you know, whatever, but did all kinds of things, everything from working in a warehouse to driving a truck to you name it, you know, sold donuts, door to door, sold mutual funds and life insurance. Man, I mean, I could go on late and play the guitar and sang in nightclubs, which I still do occasionally, all these years later, but when I heard her all night and go on the radio, he became my mentor, the first person to guide me beyond my own limited world view. And I learned that if I would notice more about every situation, I would discover opportunities that never would have occurred to me otherwise. So I had to teach myself how to notice more. And in doing so I was able to not only learn from the people you just mentioned, but became personal friends with Norman Vincent Peale. shared the stage with him a couple of times. W Clement Stone, you know, Zig Ziglar Earl Nightingale, Earl Nightingale. I heard his tapes in 1972, three and four. In 1984. He was selling my recordings. Yeah, well, it just shocked me I didn't call to apply.

Greg Voisen
Well, you know, that was one of the key. One of the key messages of this book intelligent curiosity is about the importance of asking the right questions. And, you know, I'd like you to share a technique or a strategy for crafting questions that leads to deeper insights and breakthroughs because they're, I know, look, I've been doing this podcast now for 17 years, I've done over 1100 podcasts. I just last week, had Guy Kawasaki on here. And guy told this story about being in the room with Steve Jobs, and telling Steve Jobs up when the ad came out about think differently. And there's a greatest story I'd never heard it. They said, the ad agency said listen to this, Jim, we have two copies. I'm gonna give one to you guy. And I'm gonna give another one to Steve. And Steve's steps out and here goes the question. Steve stands up and says, No, you're not you're going to give both copies to me. You're not going to give one to guy and guy is sits there. And he goes, and he says it's in Steve says to guy and it's because I don't trust you. Now he this was a defining moment for Guy Kawasaki. Yeah. He said, Steve. That's okay. I don't trust you either. Right. And he said in that moment, that was a 10s of millions of dollar mistake that he made. Right, right. So the, the point here was this. When you ask a question, and somebody says, Hey, I'm going to give the tape here. I'm going to do this. You really have to know when you're going to ask the question is we said here to get deeper insights and breakthroughs as to why Steve Jobs because he guy could have asked that question a little bit differently, and saying, I don't trust you You, he could have said, Well, why don't you trust me? Right? But instead he just said, No, I don't trust you. Yeah, they ended our relationship.

Jim Cathcart
He could have said, Steve, what do you trust?

Greg Voisen
Right. Right.

Jim Cathcart
What's that based on? See? That's the thing. I'm crafting questions. I want to know, what's that based on? What's that based on what's set based on until I hit solid rock? Right? So it's the why behind the why behind the why. Where's that coming from? Like our, our colleague, Bill Bacharach. He says, What? What's important about blank to you, so when he's doing is trusted advisor, coach training, he says to people, ask your client, what is it you're trying to do? And they say, Well, I'm trying to take care of my kids. What's important about taking care of your kids to you? Well, I want to make sure that they're safe and better than her let her die. And what's important about their safety to you, and you keep drilling down, and they say, Well, I grew up with no safety net. And I want to give them one, right, okay, now we got somewhere. So it's about a safety net. It's not about the kids, it's not about a bunch of other things. It's about the safety net. So let's focus on that. So it's like Vince Lombardi at the start of every training year with the Green Bay Packers, he would have a room full of veteran professional football players in front of him. And he would say, gentlemen, this is a football. And if you're on the offense, your job is to get this football to the opposing teams goalpost as often as possible. And if you're on defense, your job is to assure it never reaches our goalpost. So clear what the what the job was about. And everything else grew from that fundamental truth. Not some piece of it. You know, don't focus on symptoms, focus on causes.

Greg Voisen
Well, look, open ended questions are one thing closed into questions or another thing? But I think that the key is, is it learning how to ask good open ended questions that are allowing the whoever it is that you're trying to get to know better? An opportunity to express themselves so you truly understand their side of it? You know, to say to somebody, well, I don't trust you. That's not an open ended question. That's just literally a statement that I made. You want to try it a different way. And so it would have been a why question. Now. You know, one of the things this book talks about is failures and setbacks. And it says that there are opportunities for learning and growth. Now, I've only learned the most, from those kinds of things as I sit here at almost 70. And I look back at my life, and I go look at the challenges that I've faced, and there have been many, those have been the ones where I literally said, well, to pull myself up by my bootstraps, I gotta do something different. I got to figure it out. Can you share if you would, it's kind of a personal story where a setback propelled you forward because of an intelligent, curious approach.

Jim Cathcart
Yep. I had a business partner, not the one in La Jolla, who's still my dear friend, Tony Alessandra, but another partner along along the way, and I was all in, I had mortgaged my home and invested in this guy's company, and it was a closely held company. So he controlled what happened with it. And about two years into it, I was generating 100% of our revenue, he was generating none. And I went to him and I said, I've been looking at the deal we made initially, and it was based on this being a seminar company. But as it turns out, this is a Assessment Tool Company. And the guy said, Yeah, and I said, well, our original agreement doesn't allow me to build equity in the assessment side of the business, and yet, I'm the only one selling assessments, and I'm selling hundreds of 1000s of dollars worth of that. I get commissions, but I don't build equity. And he said, and what's your problem? I said, Well, I'm all in, you know, I want this to be something I can I can own for the rest of my life. He said, No. I said, What do you mean? No. He said, Jim, you don't get it, do you? He said, I got what I wanted. The fact that you made a bad deal is not my problem. Oh, wow. And I stood there stunned speechless. I've never been so blatantly dis betrayed in my life. And I was just staring at him and I said, he said is not not my problem. I said, Well, it is now. Because your revenue stream just dried up, I will not make another sale. And so we ended up in an attorney's office and my attorney said to me, Jim, you're in the right, and you can win. He said, you've lost, you know, maybe two or $300,000. Here. He said, We can win this lawsuit. But you'll never see your money. And you'll have to pay me a ton to be your attorney. He said, So let it go. I said, Well, I don't know how to let it go. He said, well figure it out. Yeah. I walked away, disappointed. But the more I reflected on it, the more I realized that my anger and resentment and hurt was me inflicting me with more pain. Exactly. And I asked, you know, what's that about? Well, that's a healing process. If you helicopter up, and you get perspective, you realize what you're going through is a very clinical emotional cycle. That's common to all crises, all human tragedy, right? Same thing, loss of a loved one, or any number of other things. And so once I recognized what I was going through for what it was, I was able to start finding a new path. And as I did, I wrote the book, The Acorn principle, which became my best selling book up to that point of all time. And it was number two best selling ebook in the entire world in the year 2000, behind Stephen King and ahead of Robert Ludlum.

Greg Voisen
So you, you've had some amazing successes. And I think when it comes out, if you look at it from a spiritual standpoint, the you know, you learned how to take what you thought was an injustice, and turn it around into an opportunity. And, you know, I think even I'm reflecting at this point on what seems to be kind of an atrocity, but people who are wrongly convicted and put in prison for 30 years, and then let out because, you know, and you think, well, what would their heart how hard would their heart be, as a result of the injustice that was done by a legal system or by a prosecutor by whatever, and I, I know those wounds can heal. And people can get to the other side, as long as there is a deep spiritual belief that there's something greater for their life out here to do. And that's really the point they have to understand that all this intelligent curiosity comes from a higher source. Yeah, no, it's always coming from religions

Jim Cathcart
recognize that everything that exist was created, how it was created, humans, probably not capable of knowing. But we can describe processes like a child being conceived and born. But we can't understand or describe what caused life to be in that one, when other couples are the same couple had tried so many other times and never had a child. So we don't know where life comes from. There's so many things in the world that even science has no answer for. And so it requires science requires faith. Right? Oh, so faith in what? Well, not, not in a particular mode of of worship, but in the understanding that there is a creative source that caused us to exist. And yeah, that source is either a good source or an evil source, you know, an angry judgmental source, or the, the source of life and love, I choose to look at it that way. And that makes my life so much more pleasant.

Greg Voisen
Well, you don't want to carry around the negative emotion of anger. And I think it was yesterday was a great example, with the Eclipse. You're in Texas. So maybe you saw this

Jim Cathcart
whole thing laid on the blanket in the backyard and watch those. But

Greg Voisen
the point of that is, is if you look at most people, they'll say what a spiritual experience that was to actually see something greater than ourselves occur. And it gives you an idea of really how small we all really are in the overall grand scheme of things. And I just thought it was just so pleasant to see that people were having these epiphanies about an eclipse about spiritual epiphany crying and and really getting very emotional about it and I think that's wonderful because it shows that emotion is being released as a result of us figuring out the connection be seek between something that's way greater than ourselves. And we all have that ability to connect with something greater than ourselves. Now, you mentioned in here, that fostering intelligent curiosity, it how important it is to step out of one's comfort comfort zone. Now, you've you and I have stepped out of our comfort zones, and everybody has in some way. And can you give an example of how it's applied in your professional experiences, because every time you do step out of your comfort zone, it's like, oh, it's a huge opportunity for growth emotionally, spiritually, intellectually, a lot of times even physically, because, hey, you're not going to do that double black diamond run down a hill, or do the kite skiing, or do the kinds of things that I've done, like, you know, bungee jumping, and going down to New Zealand and getting in a hang glider and all that kind of stuff. Those kinds of things are things that really push your comfort zone, right, let's face it, well,

Jim Cathcart
there's no growth inside your comfort zone. And it's interesting, I knew the man who coined the phrase comfort zone. His name's James Newman, Jim Newman, and he wrote a book called release your brakes. He's passed away now. But he was a fascinating and wonderful guy, a magician, member of the Magic Castle, and created a company called or training program called PACE, personal and company effectiveness back in the 1970s. Appear of Earl Nightingale and, and Paul. I'm Paul Meyer, of mama hair. Yeah, yesterday, my you know, people from back in the earliest days of the motivation, movement, human potential movement, but comfort zone, it just defines the area within which you don't feel threatened. Right? The more comfortable you are, the less you are growing. And if you get up each morning and say, How can I be comfortable today, then your life is gonna continually get smaller and atrophy until you die. of the people that the woke movement is all about. Nobody make nobody uncomfortable. How absurd is that? I mean, when I send my my little child to school, I want my little child to encounter resistance. I want them to have to learn about things they don't know, I want them to have to figure out how to get along with students that are not like them, how to how to find their way past the bullies and the bad guys, right? How to be safe when they're on their own. When my son was tiny, I kept him comfortable by holding him like this. As we walked across the street. When he got a little older, I held a death grip on his hand as we walked across the street. But he was walking a little bit older. I said, Stay by my side, but I wasn't touching him. So he's getting progressively more freedom. And when he got to an older age, because I trusted his judgment. I'd say Have a nice time. Let me know when you're home. Right. So freedom comes with growth, with ability with with capacity. And that's the thing if we've got to well, I'll give you a recent example, South by Southwest is an enormous gathering in Austin, Austin, Texas. were

Greg Voisen
you speaking there? Yeah, I

Jim Cathcart
was not speaking there. But I was part of the founders house sponsored by Ink Magazine. I was on their list of attendees because I'm a founder of my company. And I went downtown, didn't know a single person in that gathering. And I went downtown, parked my car and walked into the place. By the time I got in, in the door, and I had stood in line for half an hour. I had met probably six other people, one of whom I'm probably going to do business with and that was a woman that was behind me who had a cane. She was walking with a cane. And I said, Hang on a second. And I went to the front of the line and I said excuse me, there's a woman back here with walking with a cane. Do you have a way that disabled people can get to the front? And they said yeah, send her up here. And so I told her to go up there and she got in right away. Remember that later and get back to me by email, and we may end up doing business together. When we got inside when I got inside. The place was packed like a like a mosh pit at a rock concert. And so squeezing my way through the crowd and every time I had Make eye contact with someone I'd smile and greet them. And then I'd look at their name badge if they had one or I'd ask them a question. And it led to conversations that led to business dealings. You know it, but I was there alone outside of my comfort zone for sure. Is there no, Jim you you know all the things you've done 3500 Page speeches, you can me Your, your confidence is through the roof. No, it's not it contextually. It is yeah, in this context, he asked in that context, not so much. And when I show up as a stranger, someone somewhere I'm not who's who? Um, who is he? Right?

Greg Voisen
Yeah, that's good. Yeah, and the story is great, because it gives people an opportunity to see when you go beyond your comfort zone and talk to people in line, or you talk to the person at the checkout counter, or you ask a question of them, where you're more interested in them, than you are interested in telling them about you. Yeah, that's where you really start to get people because, you know, number one thing people like to hear is their name being said one, and two, trying to find out something where you break the ice with a question about them. And, you know, I used to teach the Dale Carnegie sales course here in San Diego, and I go back to Michael Crum. And grant Benning, whose daughter is Annette Benning, who I worked under for many years. And, you know, one of the things that we always learned in that course is, you know, which was asking open ended questions and being able to do it intelligently. Right. And so, you discuss in this book, the concept, which goes right along here, cause effect the context and implications. And in problem solving, because intelligent curiosity can be a big tool in helping you solve problems, most of the time it is right, because it's putting the dots together, we've had read a MoGraph on here before and read a speaks about actually forecasting into the future, what you can actually see, by putting the dots together today, you've got to be able to, you know, do that. And I think it was Steve Jobs had talked in his speech at Stanford, about you can't learn anything. By basically you, you learn most of the stuff you have by what happened to you, right that you can forecast? In other words, what are the things that are happening to me? And you walk us through a real world example, where this approach helped uncover a non obvious solution? Where you know, you, you weren't aware of it, I can think of many where it was like a surprise. I was like, Oh, my gosh, look at our solution that came up right as a result of being curious. Hmm. Well,

Jim Cathcart
my son came to me when he was a teenager, but like 13 years old, and he said, Dad, my friend, John Stan gets a allowance, and I don't I want an allowance. And I said, really? How does John Stan's allowance work? So this is cause effect. Context implications, right? So you know, the cause is he wants money, because he saw that his friend has money. And they said, Well, how does that work? He said, Well, he gets, I don't know what it was $50 a month. This was a long time ago. From his parents, and so he's got the freedom, you know, of having his own money. He said, I want my own money. And I said, okay, and then I started thinking, I, it's easy for me to say yes, and do this. Just give my son money each month. But what's the effect of that? Nothing. It just gives him money. What does he learn? Not a single thing. Right? So how does that you know, how's that a good parenting thing? It may be a nice courtesy, but it's kind of like, Here have some ice cream, you will feel better? Well, yeah, you may feel better for it for a few moments, but the ice cream didn't take you anywhere useful. So I said to my son, I want you to have total freedom to make your own decisions on money for the rest of your life. But first you have to learn the principles of how that works. Otherwise, I can't let go. So yes, I will give you an allowance. But you and I will work together to create it. Wouldn't you know he didn't know what I was talking about. So we sat down and we identified everything in his teenage life that required money, clothes, movie tickets, food, you know everything school registration fees, membership, have student clubs, you know, things like that at Toys, tools. And we listed them all on a bunch of pages. And then we prioritize them. Now this wasn't in one sitting, this was like four or five discussions. And he said, What are we going to get as we'll get there, just trust the process. So we had this long discussion about all the things that require money. And then we ranked them by priority. First off, basic physical needs must happen, not negotiable. And then we got to things that he would like to do, like go into a concert or something, right. So we had everything on the list and in big groupings, according to how important it was to him. And then I said, I will get out. First off, let me we divided all that money into 12 equal payments, so that you've got hundreds or maybe a few $1,000. And it's now divided into monthly increments. And I said, But these things don't happen in monthly increments. Some of them happen. And it's a big one and just the month of June. I said, so this is how budgeting works. So I taught him that. So these are a number of discussions over many weeks. But it resulted in him getting a regular monthly amount from me, for which he had to do certain things, to keep track of the money he had and the money he spent by category. And each year we did that all the way through when he left for college, he learned a new financial principle. So that by the time he took off for college, he had 1000s of dollars in the bank he had saved from the allowance I was giving him, because he always had take 10% off the top and put it in savings that he didn't touch. And he said, How's that Dad, I needed that as a deal? Find a way? And sure enough, he did. So when he went off to college, I could trust him with money decisions, because he had shown over like five years, he knew how to do it. Yeah,

Greg Voisen
it's uh, you know, I've, I've had somebody in with family offices, and you understand that, usually families with lots and lots of money. And they'll say, hey, you know, from one generation to the other, we see now that the family money has dwindled, because of two things. Is it a want? Or is it a need? And the reality is, is that most people are fulfilling a lot of wants, which are actually diminishing the succession of big amounts of wealth and families versus the true need, is this something we truly need. And I think, you know, look, we live in an always on instant society, anybody can go to Amazon, and anytime, and I'm not pointing them out. But it doesn't matter where you went to online shop. But the the example that you just gave about budgeting, I believe is so important for everyone. And it's a great reminder of what we just said, which was cause effect, context, and implications, you know, it all of those kind of go together. And what you taught your son at a very early age, is really quite remarkable, because a lot of parents never do what you just explained. That's

Jim Cathcart
right. And the important part of that whole story is that if I had just given him an allowance, which was easy on me, right, the easy way out for me is just giving him X dollars a month. If I had done that, the implication was, by the time he got, say to college, I would still have to supervise every financial decision he made, because he wouldn't know how to make them on his own. And he wouldn't have any savings because there was no discipline built into the learning process. And I would sit so it would be I would be postponing my work as a teaching parent for five years for current comfort, in exchange for grief at the other end. Right.

Greg Voisen
And, you know, look, we can point to many examples, you know, the Mike Tyson's and the Willie Nelson's of the world where they got themselves in trouble as a result of either overspending or not paying their taxes, right. And so,

Jim Cathcart
the reality is people that they didn't know how to supervise. Yeah,

Greg Voisen
yeah, it happens a lot. We, we see it in the news frequently of somebody you're thinking, wow, they made multi millions of dollars, and now they're completely broke. How could that be? Well, if you buy if you buy enough Ferraris, and Lamborghinis and big houses in Las Vegas, no matter how many people you punch out in a fight, you potentially are not going to have Have anything wept so? But I want to kind of wrap this interview up with this intelligent curiosity, which is so inspiring. Thank you for being on the show today. And what first step would you recommend that people take to start applying the principles that you and Lisa wrote about in this book, outlined in the book so that their lives and careers become better as a result of being more intelligently curious?

Jim Cathcart
Well, the essence of intelligence is making distinctions. Noticing differences and uniqueness, like you look at this bookshelf behind me, or behind you. And you say, Okay, this books, yeah, but what kind of books? And are there categories of those books? And there's something unique about these, you know, what, what's the essence of this? What do I notice? So here's your new mantra, everyone, notice more, notice more than what then you did before than you would normally then other people do. When I go to a meeting as a professional speaker, I show up the day before the event. Assuming I'm traveling to a convention city, and it's in a hotel, and I, when I check into the hotel, I go down to the meeting room, where it's going to be usually downstairs, and I check the room, and the rooms often locked. So I go around and find a side door if I can to get in to physically see the room. And it may be dark, but I can see the nature, the essence of the room structure of it. And what I want to know is where are the emergency exits are there obviously the doors you enter from but also those others that have the little red sign that says exit, and I follow those exits to see where they lead? Well, Greg, many times those exits lead to a circuit where you go completely around the ballroom before you get to a real exit. So their exits into an inner hallway that might be filled with smoke in a fire, or jam with people in a panic, right? So when I'm the speaker, and I'm standing on stage, I know how to evacuate the room if necessary. Because I've done it with 700 people on a Sunday, in the dead of winter in Washington, DC, when we were three levels below the street, and the building caught on fire. Let the people say, Well, how did you know? Because I checked it out in advance. I was curious if it's an emergency? Who's got a mic? Me? Who else? Nobody? Okay, so I'm in charge, at least by default, for the moment. And I would take charge of getting that audience to safety or getting a person who could onto the stage and give them the mic. You know? Well, it's

Greg Voisen
it's also intelligent curiosity, but it's preparedness, you know, I think in many different situations, that's what intelligent curiosity leads to, is that somebody who's done something enough, looks beyond what is normally seen. And, and looks for, I'm gonna actually just call it the opportunities, right, because in your case, you're looking for an opportunity to get people out of a room quit more quickly than they could. And you're able to do that. And gosh, only knows in the crazy times that we've been living in with people with guns and whatever, shooting up rooms, not not a good position, you want to be able to get out as quickly as you can. So, but your book is really designed for people, anybody. And again, I want to tell my listeners go to cathcart.com. Also, we're going to have a link that Jim will give us so that you can get access to his course. He has a podcast called is it wisdom? I want to make sure I get it right. Wisdom parlor. So go to that cathcart.com And check out wisdom parlor. He's got quite a few great podcasts there. You can also go to his speaker page, if you're looking to hire somebody to actually come speak for your event. You couldn't have anybody better than Jim The question is whether or not you can afford. Yes, speaking fee, but if you're looking for somebody to inspire, wow. I call them you call him. Yeah. And by the way, he's got a number listed right there. 805-777-3477. You can basically call him right there and discuss that. And I guarantee you it's a sliding scale. If it's in Austin, you'll probably do it cheaper as it might be someplace out That's right. Have you got an event coming up in Austin and you're listening, Jim Cathcart. Your guy's right there. Well, Jim, pleasure having you on inside personal growth again. It's been way too long. I really, really enjoyed our connection. I really enjoyed what you told us about intelligent curiosity. Blessings to you. Thanks for being on the show. Thanks for spending some time with my listeners.

Jim Cathcart
I appreciate it. You're my friend. Take care of Greg. Bye, everyone. Thank you.