Greg Voisen
Welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. This is Greg Voisen and host of Inside Personal Growth. And joining me all the way on the other side of the world will almost is Dr. Justin Kennedy. And Dr. Kennedy was introduced to me by Elizabeth, she goes by Le Gould. Her book is called Feeling Forward. And Justin is going to be speaking about his book, Brain Reboot but he's also going to be speaking about a few other things as well. And what he's doing with a new collective of a group, this NPN that you see in the lower right hand corner of the screen there. But Justin, good afternoon to you. How are you doing?

Dr. Justin Kennedy
I'm happy to see you. It's, it's an honor to be on your show. It's, I'm looking forward to our time together.

Greg Voisen
Oh, good. And I'm looking forward to having you. And I'm so pleased that Ellie kind of made the link for us. And I'm gonna let the listeners know a little bit about you. You are in Switzerland, where in Switzerland Are you

Dr. Justin Kennedy
outside? Zook in a very small little town in the Alps, on the Bavarian border. So high in the mountains with high V.

Greg Voisen
High with Heidi. There you go. Well, Justin is a TEDx speaker. He's a behavioral neuroscience professor at a university academic and executive coach, organizational neuroscience expert. He's got a certificate from Harvard University in neuroscience, PhD, researcher and author, his book called Brain boot that we're going to talk about plus other things. He says, and I quote, that he works as a neuro plastic surgeon and a coach on a faculty and academic institutes. He has been a TEDx speaker, and he's a PhD supervisor, professor and scholar in behavioral science and co-founder of ion Institute of organizational neuroscience focuses on the field of applied neuroplasticity and coaching towards standardizing I'm gonna underline that word say it three times because he and I had a pre interview. And I think a big focus here is of the people we're speaking to that are in this field. That NPN is where you'll want to go just look about membership, because the reality is his group is trying to standardize the practices because it's all over the place right now. There's as we call them, Lone Ranger's out there running around in neuroplasticity. You can find him at JJ at Professor kennedy.com. You can find him at www.professorkennedy k-e-n-n-e-d-y.com. And for the website for the I'm gonna say newly formed a certified association of neuroplasticity ones. It's www in p n hub.com. And that's www npn.com. Well, you know, you had a roundabout way yourself of getting here, Justin, and maybe not the best way to get here. But to start off your book, and you told me in the pre interview, you really wanted to discuss more of the first part of the book, like the first chapter, the book is the best because it's your story. And you start off by saying, you know, I'm recovering from a coma. And you needed to get control over these self-belief triggers that limited your behavioral change for full recovery. I think for the listeners, it would be really profound for them to hear your story about how you got in the coma. What happened when people started coming in to try and help you, right? And then obviously, your observation about the way your brain was working. So let's start there.

Dr. Justin Kennedy
So first of all, I got in by mistake, it wasn't on purpose. Okay. So if anybody's wondering, it was an exercise in neuroplasticity, but not in development, but rather deconstructive with my brain damage. It happened on a bike, a motorbike, a Vesper scooter impact, and I was knocked over by some drunk driver. And the recovery process, as I mentioned, Greg, was it actually continues I'll talk about that in a second. Got it, it was very difficult to get back on my feet, literally on workload, learn how to walk again, how to talk again, I still sometimes miss a couple of weeks. So forgive me if I can fall apart now again with that couple of cameras. But the most difficult part was really getting my emotions back on track. It was a seesaw between anxiety and depression, aggression and emotional lack of control. It was, it was a it was a tricky time. And the consequence was that I fell out of my, my training to be a psychologist, because I'm so interested in why wasn't this organ, this, this, this piece of flesh in my skull, not doing what I wanted to do. While I was doing what it used to do, while I was on now having to post start on so many things. So it was a very difficult time. And, unfortunately, recently, about a couple of years ago, actually, not almost two years exactly. As I started having seizures great. And because my brain is starting to decay with age, I've now started I don't know it just randomly, but and I've had like only half a dozen. So it's not like I'm seizing up all the time and having epilepsy while I'm considered an epileptic, not because she does have a couple. But I know your neuroplasticity journey is never over you got to keep yourself Rainford otherwise, you can end up in trouble. So my work is my personal journey. Most definitely, really hadn't spent a lot of time getting my ducks in a row or my own neurons in a row.

Greg Voisen
Well, it's interesting, you had a Dr. Thompson, I remember you talking about her? Yes. And you literally, they would send people into your room, and you started to notice things about yourself. And the way you could actually propel your healing, that they weren't doing that it wasn't part of their regimen, right? It was kind of like, okay, now So Justin wants to choose how he's going to do this. And it had to do with your emotions. And how you were like you were just saying you were dealing with anger and frustration, you know, the brain wasn't working correctly. I can only imagine how frustrating that is because people look at people with mental diseases. And they can't tell them from anybody else, until the behaviors that they institute. And, and I speak from experience with a brother who was bipolar and manic. And, you know, you could never tell. And he didn't want to take his medications, what behavior he was going to have, right? So tell us how you took things into kind of your own hands as a result of that, and why it started working much more quickly for you.

Dr. Justin Kennedy
Unfortunately, it wasn't, aha epiphany of found the Holy Grail is a lot of tripping up and a lot of a lot of trial and error. Not the brain is a social organ, Greg and it was really the people around me that lovingly supported me and kept me on to go to occupational therapy and psychotherapy and others a whole battery of therapies I was involved in a big deal. Coach was saying, okay, you're at this point now, where your pathology is now under control. And now you like to have some control over making some decisions. So you're gonna go eat pizza and hang out, or you're gonna go, you know, you're gonna go for a walk, or you're gonna go and watch TV or you're gonna go and write some poetry because I used to love right? So now there's kind of others that will challenges that like get you going again. So it was one grain at a time to build the permits.

Greg Voisen
Well, you said you created a mantra. I'm going to train my brain to change my mind. And you started focusing on your physical body. What happened when you made the commitment to focusing on healing the physical body instead of the brain because You know, obviously there's a correlation. If the brains not working, the body doesn't want to actually do many of the things that you said you had to learn how to walk, you had to learn how to pick up utensils, again, you had to go through all of the normal rehabilitation, that anybody would go through with a brain injury.

Dr. Justin Kennedy
The truth, Greg, is that you can't do anything to brag, you have to work through the body, your brain doesn't feel anything, it doesn't care about anything, it's basically going to process what you're given. So my one knee was smashed in the accident. So I haven't like to get into occupational therapy to get the muscles working good. So that became my last thing. And the neuroplasticity by building back those pathways, and walking, you know, started a conversation with my brain, that there is space for me to reboot neural pathways and get back on track. And you know that that is, that was a very important part. Now, I still remember the joy of being able to walk you know what those guardrails that you get in hospitals, right? Like, Muslims, let go of that thing, unable to actually not fall over. So that was a that was a while ago. Now. I'm surprised I can actually remember that was my memories, not great, obviously, because of the brain damage. But it's funny that I remember that Dom It's so interesting.

Greg Voisen
Well, you know, you, you have these insights. And I know that movement of the body. So Dr. Thompson taught you about neuroplasticity, and you became excited about making improvements. You mentioned that part of the journey. And I found this really, oh, enlightening was really laid in yoga. What happened when you did the yoga and meditated? And how did your body and mind change as a result of that? Because you know, it's such a huge practice today, worldwide, especially meditation and yoga, meditation for stress. We know what the brain happens and what happens to the brain under stress. I remember, you know, I didn't realize it was creating this stress, because it's subconscious many times. But I ended up at Scripps, and I'll tell my own little story here. And I was having anxiety attacks like crazy, get in an elevator and I'd have one I'd go to a restaurant, I'd have one I'd have. They were debilitating. And so they put electrodes on my head. And they've showed me in front of a monitor. Here's what your brain is doing. And I really, I came to this epiphany around meditation. And that's when I started meditating. The most in my life was, if I could calm down, what was happening, I could eliminate the anxiety attacks that I was happening. And I did. I literally, I got rid of them within like, a month,

Dr. Justin Kennedy
well done. It's about getting that locus of control back. Yes, that's the key thing. And when you feel that what you're doing is giving you some feedback, you get back that reward, you get that dopamine pathway kick in, you get to say, okay, I'll do this. Again, this is something that is rewarding. Because if you don't get that reward, it's hard to maintain anything. My yoga practice has gone in and out happened down. And the yoga practice is something very foreign. Because you know, this is like 20 years ago, more bricks or yoga, and meditation was still very, very new. Right? Very new age, if you like. It wasn't it wasn't socially easy to get into that environment. So back then I'd felt so good. So it feels good to do it.

Greg Voisen
Yeah. Yeah. Well, it evidently worked for you. You know, and you tell in the book, reboot your brain, reboot the brain. You state that the key points in the story were about motivation and re motivation. You mentioned that the points of motivation all had a single emotional basis, and I'll underline the emotional basis, a single emotional basis, and were the feel and there was a feeling of fear. Well, what activities helped you during your part of your recovery?

Dr. Justin Kennedy
And simply, as I mentioned, finding a locus of control, that gives you some kind of reward.

Greg Voisen
What given example for the listeners have a locus of control.

Dr. Justin Kennedy
So turning on the oven, and having a massive pizza is an easy example. You control the oven and you eat the pizza and you feel good. However, pizzas tend to put on weight and you feel sluggish. And you know the side effects of eating pizza, but it doesn't really work so well. So finding healthy things, and have the similar structure was what works for me. So an easy example was the yoga and it doesn't take long to feel the immediate benefits, you then get to bathe in the arming serotonin at the end, and just Zen option feels so good. So finding activities that give you a reward for playing, and then give you an outcome that is enjoyable. So it's not more complicated than that. It could be meditation, it could be for random, it could be, you know, it could be spending time with a friend going work for Donna. Now you can the list goes on. It's a personal thing. But

Greg Voisen
I think when we first talked, we talked about one of the biggest areas and in everybody's life, maybe not everybody, but 80% of the population, at some point is trying to control their weight, change their weight, right, and you just said about a pizza yet, you know, you finish the pizza, but it's maybe not as healthy of a choice. But let's talk about the choices. Because the chemical releases from the brain I remember in the book, you talked about two fists put together, you know, with the thumbs crossed, right? And you've got the left and the right side of the brain and the neocortex and so on without getting too detailed. When I'm getting a release of, let's say, I know I just interviewed 22 extreme athletes, and the Oxy toxins that get released by guys that are doing big waves are riding big. skiing down mountains fast. You know, where the runner's high, you know, because people are in runner's high. What how do you correlate that because everybody out there listening might say, at one point, well, I want to lose 15. I want to lose 20 pounds, but the behavior, and the brain has to go rewire. Because they're used to doing something some way and the rewiring, what would you what would you advice would you give people about getting on the right path? for losing weight? Yeah, in particular.

Dr. Justin Kennedy
So there's good news and bad news. What do you offer? And don't say the bad news? Because everybody does. What do you want? Don't say the good news, because I said you must let me

Greg Voisen
go ahead, you just tell me, I'll let you tell me both of them at the same time.

Dr. Justin Kennedy
As you get older into your late 40s. And your 50s, your body starts slowing down. So you know, you're not going to be able to eat the same things you would when you were younger, when your body was growing, you could get away with pretty much anything. So as you get older, Nutrition has consequences. Okay, so it's basically deciding how you want to show up. And there's a very interesting and impressive Nobel Prize winning researcher by the name of Daniel Kahneman. And he speaks about systems one and two in the brain. And it's a very simple model, and explains that the immediate or the pizza, or whatever shiny objects is in front of you. That system is not rational. It's emotional, it is immediate, it is not contemplating the consequences. Okay. And the other system is where you have chance to deliberate, be mindful of your decisions and giving you opportunity to look at the consequences. And the brain is designed to be an immediate response system because when you're living in the savanna or cave or wherever we were, millions go we needed to have that skill because you know, there was scarcity and only scarcity we have left is self-control, right? The only way to change a habit is to find a better one. Okay. So if you want to change your habits, finding a job is great. And the best way to sustain that you have it is in a community. That's why Weight Watchers is brilliant, because there's a group of people around you, cheering you on to stay in the program. So the logic is simple. Do something that gives you a reward, do something that's going to be sticky to do again, and build a community around you that's going to encourage you kind of diet on your own is a killer, right. And it's not what the brain is designed to do, Greg, we as I said earlier, we are social beings. And that is why the whole neuro postition community has born because people are lonely out there. And they don't know where they can go to get stable, standardized quality information. They don't really know where to find their peers. So the idea is to build a community. That's the that's the big message.

Greg Voisen
So, I think what happens in whether it's tiny habits, Immunity to Change, I've had all kinds of people on this shows speaking about how to change habits and behaviors. I think as you said, the brain I want to repeat, because that was the key point, the brain is basically set up to react kind of rates that you just goes and just take the time to make the choice isn't something that's normal, it has to be reprogrammed. To do that. The other thing is, you know, when you eat that pizza, you're going to release certain chemical reactions by the intake of basically the flour and the rest of the stuff that you've taken in. So deprivation. You are there. Yeah, I'm listening. Oh, and I'm saying deprivation of something that's a common food is something that you said, is gotta be done by tiny steps and changing behavior. And

Dr. Justin Kennedy
The important point is that it needs to be tiny habits. And I'm all over that book. I think that's brilliant. That's that stuff is superb, tiny habits are easier than massive ones. It's obvious that is true. And that needs to be within a context. So that needs to be done in an environment that's safe and motivating. And the brain needs those two things. It needs to be easy, and it needs to be communal, there. Yeah. So that's a that's a

Greg Voisen
that's easy and communal. And I think that's really important. Justin is how do you know so one of the things people say if you want to lose weight, go take everything out of the refrigerator that you don't want and buy all new things. Because now you're changing the habit in your kitchen or your refrigerator. And it's not sitting in there right so because you will actually reach for maybe the easiest thing which always isn't the best thing but my point is if your house is stockpiled and this is a common thing, not anything doesn't know with all the bad stuff, go get rid of it and just put replace it with Good stuff, and then you know, your choices if the choice is being made for you, right? In other words, it's being made forward. There's another area and that everybody's dealing with today. And it's a really big one. And it's stress. And, you know, the world over there's applications to reduce stress, there's calm, there's a new one coming out called enlighten. There's many of them, and you speak with our listeners about the brain triggered by stress. And how we don't have to be defined by the distress and suffering from the stressors in our life. Right. So we've all got many different stresses, whether it's financial, or it's marriage issues, relationships, or, you know, the stressors go on and on and on. But they seem to, even since COVID, during COVID, impacted the world greater. And now there's more of an emphasis on it, I actually noticed, if there's one thing that's happened here, Justin, is that there's been this huge focus since COVID, in the work environment, about stress, speak with us about it, and how the brain functions under stress.

Dr. Justin Kennedy
Stress is seasonal, not only in terms of climate, which is the conversation we can have as well if you like, but it's popular, and then it's not popular, and it's always an issue. And there's a great quote, wherever you go, there you are. And you know, it's the same with stress, you know, you can go on holiday, and it's not going to make the stressors go away. In the long term, sure, you can have a break. But the point around stress is that it's something you can control. And the sad thing is that when you're in the trenches of chronic stress, you don't feel that you can cope. So stress on its own is good. I mean, cortisol gets you out of bed in the morning. So that's probably a good thing. So stress on it aren't isn't bad, this stress is good, you stress in you stress is useful. So the blaming the stress is not really a good idea. Blaming the stress response is a good idea. And it could be COVID, it could be some other process, you know, stuff happens. And that's what we do that that counts. And knowing about the brain is great. Doing something about it is better. And having a having a trusted ally. To help you understand what's going on in the mechanisms of your brain, helping someone to show them this other new, these are the neurotransmitters that are going to make you feel a reward response. What does it feel like when you eat that pizza? What is that feeling? Okay, now we got the pizza feeling, how can we copy and paste that into doing some yoga or, you know, going to speak to a friend or whatever it might be. So it's about cross pollinating or copy and pasting that feeling so that the person gets the same neurobiological triggers, but with a different source. And as I keep on bleaching on break, it's all about the social experience. So if you can have somebody to support you that knows, out to help you unpack that experience, so that you know what's going on neuro physiologically, so that you know the difference between a feeling and an emotion so that you know, the difference between a sensation and a neuroception. So these are all the things that you can make, and pack and wrestle with so that the change becomes motivating. I think that's the most important thing. If it's not motivating, it's not going to stick. So

Greg Voisen
that's well you use you know, you are saying something that I it's one thing, like it's read a book, study, do things, actions and behaviors, which are helping our memory play a musical instrument, all these kinds of things, they help memory. What you're talking about now is the change of a habit. It actually takes thought the thought has to emanate first before I can do it because We're kind of on automatic pilot most of the time, you know, we just kind of go through life. And we don't, you know, we ACEF is saying at the University where I got my master's degree in spiritual psychology is, you don't have to believe everything you think. Right? It was a little quote, it was a bumper sticker made a bit. And so you know, when you look at our believes, we frequently take on these beliefs as a result of something being propped up someone else saying, this is what you should believe this is the change you should make, without us really thinking through it, you know, like, why, why, what's there? Are you going to take the time to do that, and you state that we can grow our brains stronger, and we can improve our memory and our thinking abilities? How can the listeners trigger their brains to perform better and sustain these optimal healthy brain performance?

Dr. Justin Kennedy
Okay, many roads lead to Rome. So, but that's my Italian joke for another day. Okay. The first thing is to find a buddy, my son, my son did so well in his recent exams. And he said, why? And he and I said the same, because you gave me this study, buddy. So there's this little, this little balloon that is completely for nothing, it's a balloon. But he had an association with a study buddy. So having a study by the balloon is better than nothing. But having the person who you can have dialogue being part of the community, being part of a book club makes you much more likely to read than if you just buy a book. Having a tennis racket is great for exercise. But being part of a tennis club is even better. Find the habits, mindful this space to think it through having the space and energy to do as you know, as I said many roads, but those are the fundament,

Greg Voisen
I liked the fact that you're saying community helps to support and I think supporting community, and there are certain elements that need to be part of that for it to work. And if I was to say, you know, some place where you meet regularly where there's like-minded people, when people are stimulating your thought process. That's why in the olden days, they used to call them mastermind groups, right? I say, you know, and that concept, unfortunately, kind of died off, we're seeing a little bit of a resurgence. But people are saying, well, I'm too busy to be in a mastermind group, or, you know, or I'm too smart for those people or whatever. And I think what I would encourage people to three think is, it isn't just who it is, it's what you can contribute to that group as well.

Dr. Justin Kennedy
disrupted for a second event. I agree. Everybody's busy. However, everybody's lonely as well. Right? And the NPN hub has become teeming with lonely people who all of a sudden have time because they find value. So people are lonely, and they frenetic hamster on the wheel, chasing the dragon, if you give them space that's motivating for them to connect with other people. Now when the time all of a sudden the time emerges organically, so the idea of giving people space to think and feel and grow together is great. There's space for people to be certified as the repetitions based on their previous qualifications. So the neuroplasticity is something that is based on your previous qualifications and neuroscience, there's also training institutes that are associated that we can refer you out to. And a lot of those practitioners also great are doing their PhDs in applied practice. So someone like you who's done your masters, we would speak to them and saying, you know, maybe we're interested in doing your PhD based on your current work. So not trying to get you into a PhD program

Dr. Justin Kennedy
either there are many different kinds of activities going on in this environment to help people grow and flourish in a like minded community and that's...

Greg Voisen
You know, I, I think that you mentioned that, you know, if we're stressed or overwhelmed that the prefrontal cortex shuts down, and that the emotional brain takes over. Right? What are some of the ways to calm down the limbic system, so that the cortex starts to function again? Because now you're actually talking about what actually happens to us, you're actually putting a picture in someone's mind. And you use the hands and the thumbs over. And you know, how you and you did a really good job of and I think if people said, oh, I see it, this is what's happening. And this is, this is how I can comment this limbic system down. Yeah,

Dr. Justin Kennedy
Well, the, the gymnasts offer that I'd like to make to your readers want to really unpack that, as I'm happy to give the first 100 people a copy of my book, Greg. So I'm happy to share that link with you, in your community so that people can have a look at that information in a bit more detail. If that would be something

Greg Voisen
Oh, yeah, we'll do that. Well, you'll give us a link and we'll let them download the book for free.

Dr. Justin Kennedy
Exactly, I'm happy to do that. And the way that goes, it's all about behavior change. Change your mind is great change how you feeling is better change how you move will matter. And, you know, it's not much more than that. Gray if you if you're not happy, do something different. In fact, I was watching Arnold Schwarzenegger his Netflix series, which is a very interesting guy is, is a genius. And he was saying, you know, when things are not working, move forward, just like do something. Right. And, and he said, he said something very, very dangerous. And he said, “Look, I'm not a psychologist. But when people say that you can only expect something, not a psychologist would say, so is it I'm not a psychologist. But when I'm feeling a bit down, I don't lie around and go to bed, or get up and do shit. And, you know, there's some logic in that. He does, however, forget that the neuro chemistry can be out of balance, and getting out of bed can cause distress and cardiac fatigue. And no, there's always these another side of the story. But there was a lot to say about just moving. Yes,

Greg Voisen
I agree with you. I mean, every time that I find myself in a situation where I'm feeling stressed or closed in, you know, I just go on a bike ride. You know, the, for me, the best thing I could do is be outside. And I think for most people getting back into nature, is a connection with a really valuable source. And don't take your damn phone with you. And don't put your headset in. Just go walk in the woods or walk in a park or go on a bike ride and do it without some electronic device, influencing what you're hearing, seeing and feeling. Let you be with your brain, whatever your brain is thinking, let it think, you know, it's got all kinds of thoughts. I always tell people when I was doing century rides, the best thing for me they'd go, they'd say, well, what do you think about all that time? You know, you're on the bicycle for 689 hours, right? And they say, what do you think about? And I would really actually think about it, Justin, I think this is an important point. I would say well, you know, I actually look down at the road. And what I think about is not hitting a hole, or falling, or doing something dumb, or being defensive. Right? That that basically is what I'm thinking about. They're like thinking well, you must be thinking about all kinds of things, but not really. My as you said the brain kind of in one sense is very simple that way. And I love this story that you tell about this reluctant CEO, his name was Adam. This guy had four heart attacks, he changed his behavior, but he wasn't willing to stick with your coaching program to change his habits. What does it take for somebody like Adam to rewire their brains? Because he was obviously a type A personality? And he was somebody you were coaching Right?

Dr. Justin Kennedy
Right. Know what coaching is a funny thing? You know? Why are you in a coaching program? Have you been put there by somebody else? Have you been suggested? Because you're so tough a everything's everyone, nobody wants to work with you, you know, what is the what is the what is the entry point. So that makes a big difference if it is a negative entry points. It's much more difficult to be sticky, as it was in this case. So you know, if you get a bit of benefit, and you think, oh, that's good enough, then you're moving on. So it's about finding those reward mechanisms and keeping you up on track. And it's everything from coaching, to eating to maintaining relationships, to being professional, to finishing a PhD, whatever, whatever it is that you value. It's just about doing the hard yards. It's not. There's, there's no, there's no easy way out of this life.

Greg Voisen
I like what you said about Arnold Schwarzenegger. He said, you know, when you get to that point, just do something. You know, and, and, and there's a lot to be said for, for what you said. People may say, well, that's just too simplistic, we'll do something. And here's what I would say, do something different, not just do something, do something that you wouldn't normally do or that you've been meaning to do. But you've been postponing, you constantly said, oh, well, you know, for me, it's a thing called the Total Gym. So I started getting on the Total Gym, because I have had one for a long time it sat in the closet. And I feel so much better about myself, because it's not just cycling. Now I'm working my upper body and I'm doing other things. So the point was, I say when you do something different than forming the habit around doing something different, that's enjoyable. So if you want to go play volleyball, then go play volleyball, but go do something. I love what you said about Arnold starts waking sorts of bigger. Now you're

Dr. Justin Kennedy
doing something is also as simple as meditating. You know? Yeah, no, but nobody ever stopped doing something. And then, you know, felt like that Why Simon? You know, it's just, it's just refreshing, which is a bit of novelty to the brain that you're now doing another activity sometimes. And that is just enough. But it's not always just enough. But now there is mental disease, and these things do exist. And it doesn't mean that everybody can ani their way out of a problem. However, it doesn't mean that you can't give it a go. So, you know, depression is a bet you can't really just snap out of it. But the research shows that by exercising, you getting those endorphins going you feel the better. But it doesn't mean it's going to fix the root cause of the problem and having someone who's skilled to help you. And bundle their stuff is obviously going to be helpful, you know, it's giving you that dialogue, that partnership, that space to think aloud, because our brains like to think aloud, you know, we're getting to internal dialogue it gets it gets very complicated in their neural networks get confused by who's speaking and who's listening.

Greg Voisen
Well, I remember a book that Dr. James Gordon wrote, I can't remember the title right now. He's been on the show a few times. But you know, he would say psychologists would spend their life and psychotherapist but psychologists in particular, prescribing drugs for depression. And he would say, look, 90% of the people that are on those drugs, don't need those drugs. And what they need is they need movement in their life. He said, Go to Tai Chi, go do yoga, go for a walk in the park, go do a run, get on your bicycle, whatever it might be. He said movement is a cure for many of these things. And instead of taking Prozac because you're depressed, right? And I loved what he said because he's really kind of coming out and saying, yeah, there are cases where people do need medications, and he wasn't slamming the pharmaceutical industry, but he was saying seriously 80% of the time If I can treat patients without medication, so that you don't become dependent on it. Now you have all people have studied brainwaves, what triggers brainwaves become imbalanced? And how we can trigger our brainwaves back to finding balance. Also, can you mention to our listeners, these seven brainwaves use theta delta, you just you just you really studied all of these brainwaves. But if you want to summarize it quickly and just say, hey, this is how these brainwaves come out of balance. I thought that part of the book was interesting,

Dr. Justin Kennedy
really good. The simple truth isn't the knowing what the brainwaves isn't going to help you at all. It's useful if you've got some interest to do a PhD or if you're interested in learning about it. I'd rather go use some Neurofeedback technology to get a felt sense of what's happening in different brain states. And what happens in different hurts? The simple answer is that you want to slow down the brain because the more hurts you get, the more stressed and tense it becomes. So the goal is to simply as we say, Fine, that way of controlling the stress, rather than getting lost in that distress. So we want to get into that sweet spot of that alpha Brainwave. When we're in that flow state, we're in that space where we're learning, and we're dancing with the problem, rather than drilling through trying to get it resolved. So I'm speaking about this flows that we mentioned, immersion, and all Zach's work, and his new technology is so I'm going to, um, you can interview him or more if you have already, but the idea about the work of art getting you engaged in immersion of the experience is it's, it's a great it's a great way for

Greg Voisen
you, okay, it's an eyelash, do you need,

Dr. Justin Kennedy
it's a great way for you to find happiness is when you in that moment, when you're lost in the moment, like when you're dancing or swimming, or playing the fool whatever else you might be doing?

Greg Voisen
Well, you know, I reflect back on people that have been on the show that have spoken about the flow state. And one of them is Steven Kotler the flow Genome Project. Steven, Steven has been on the show six times, maybe seven, I don't know. But, you know, he's just a prolific writer, but also a prolific researcher about flow, what actually creates flow. And in one of the interviews, I remember, you know, it's, you know, he says, focus is for free. That's what he says focuses for free. But you then have to actually inform my listeners, they've heard this before, but I don't think you can hear it enough. Because he kind of did research on Well, if I have if I'm curious. And then I create a purpose from my curiosity, right? And then from that purpose, I create an aim or a goal. And then I go from there, and I set the proximal goals. So when you look at people that are curious, and in the flow, those are the people literally, that he claims get something done, right. In other words, it happens, they can sustain that flow. And, and I think a key to is finding purpose, purpose is a really big thing, right? Huge, huge. And like you, you've spent your life kind of studying this and helping people and putting this community together. And it's very important. And that leads me to these happy hormones. You have to be getting happy hormones. And people want to know how to produce this and this oxy toxin without going to go do Ayahuasca or something like that, where I can change the brain chemistry short term anyway. Because it's prolific what people can do if they really want to, I can micro dose LSD, I can do oxy toxin. I mean, I mean, I can do Ayahuasca. So how do I produce these natural happy hormones?

Dr. Justin Kennedy
As you said, one word, find your purpose. And that is not so easy. It's not like it's lying around in the garden under the weaver. It's something you have to kind of spend your life doing. And it's not the finding sort of the actual finding of the thing, it's the journey towards finding your purpose and it becomes, you know, your life's work. And if work feels like it has a philosophical purpose, whatever that might be, you know, and gives you a sense of well-being. And it's good to distinguish wellbeing from happiness, because a lot of people think happiness is joy. And I prefer to think that happiness is a way of sustained well-being. And that depends on purpose as the US brilliantly suggested.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, it there really is, you know, I created I used to teach a course and purpose if you can teach a course and purpose, but I did.

Dr. Justin Kennedy
What

Greg Voisen
I exist to serve my purpose. My purpose is to serve to inspire passion, when you break down the word passion. For me, I mean, not in a Biblical sense. For me, it's taking people from a place of not understanding, or being confused, to a place of clarity and understanding. And people say, well, your podcast show is a great example of something you're doing to help to create clarity around, in this case, neuroplasticity, how does our brain work? All these interviews, help my listeners, as far as I'm concerned, find a place from where they may be confused, misunderstood, to a place of where they can great clarity. Now, that purpose has been with me for literally 25 years when I defined it. And I haven't changed it. And I have been very dedicated to it. And I think that's true about any teacher, any professor, your whole goal is say, hey, I'm here to actually create clarity where they're not beat where there might not be clarity or to create investigation where they're not may not be investigation, because you help people actually get curious about finding solutions. And NPN is a place where people can continue to use that curiosity amongst a group of other people to actually come up with a standardization new ideas, ways that you're going to bring this out to the world. And that leads me to my last question, if I'm going to reboot, reboot my brain, and it can be done in some pretty simple ways, as you're talking about today. What are some of the behaviors that we could adopt to reboot, reboot our brains,

Dr. Justin Kennedy
and the most important behavior about everything is the behavior of consistency. So it's not really a big Harrigan we're gonna have a bad day, but it is a behavioral pattern, I don't know. But you know what I mean. So do what you like but be consistent about it. So that's the whole point. And as you we've been discussing, have purpose behind it. And then if the if the purpose is I want to lose weight, it's not really motivating, isn't demotivating are overweight, but if it's like, I want to, you know, be able to swim with my son or want to go on a hike up the menu, there's, there's always a positive outcome. That is a stretch target. That is that's very exciting to the brain. Today is another step in the right direction. That feels that feels good.

Greg Voisen
So I think what you're doing is you're talking about kind of feeling forward when some usually, whether it's Weight Watchers or it's any other thing, we're talking about losing weight, because it's a pretty common one. But there's many, uh, you know, I want to look good in my suit at my daughter's wedding, I want to look good in my dress. When I go to this, you know, the prom, I want to look good, because I'm gonna go to the class reunion, you know? And in that sense, is because you can see that right, you can see it, you can visualize that. You can feel it. You also know what it feels like. And I think when you would talk tie, like Ellie said, the one who introduced us the emotion to the outcome. Right? It's almost like you're living it already. Right? And I

Dr. Justin Kennedy
that's the feed forward model of expertise that makes so much sense, doesn't it?

Greg Voisen
It does. And I think when you're talking about our brains, our brains are they're not stupid, almost. But they're, they're designed to just keep us Continuing going on, right? And I think part of us is designed for homeostasis. So we literally start to default. So if we push something in one direction, it's gonna go, oh, no, no, no, you don't want to go that far with that una to come back here, because this is where I feel good. You know, they don't want to push. So you can imagine somebody like Arnold Schwarzenegger is listed hundreds of 1000s of pounds, right? There aren't very many people that are going to want to dedicate themselves to going into a gym. And, and doing that, and you said, staying consistent, right, it takes a lot of work. And I'll add in word to your, your definition, dedication. You know, consistency and dedication is the key to this. So now for all of my listeners, you're going to want to go to these websites, you're going to want to get a free copy, because Justin's going to provide us with a free copy of this link to get to download his book. And for all the people that are in the neuroscience field. Okay, we'll have a link to the end PN website where you can go, we'll also have a link to Professor kennedy.com website, where you can learn more about him. And it's been an honor and pleasure having you on the show. I appreciate you taking the time to just tell us about what you're up to give us some ideas and thoughts about how we can reprogram and rewire our brain. And also your story about the coma. I think you know how you got here is a result of your own personal history. You know, we look back in time, it's like you when you see and you weave the tapestry in your life and you go, wow, how did they get there? What triggered that? Right? And I think Dr. Thompson triggered it. I think the guy who hit you on the moped triggered it. I think there's a lot of things but you changed the course of direction of your life. Because you became passionate about things that you were trying to cope with.

Dr. Justin Kennedy
personal journey and hope that people come join us at NPN hub comm Greg, when they join us the member they get like a free couple of weeks, I can get the book for free when they join, tell them to come and join us. It's a great conversation. It's a great community. And now I hope to see you soon. I hope you have me back on your podcast. And I really love this time together. Thank you. Well, thanks

Greg Voisen
so much. I appreciate having you on Justin, you have a great rest of your evening.

Dr. Justin Kennedy
Thanks great.

Greg Voisen
Take care of yourself.

Dr. Justin Kennedy
Namaste.