Greg Voisen
Welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. Everybody knows me, but on the other side is Kory Kogon. This is her second appearance on our show. And Kory, good day to you from Tempe, Arizona, where it's nice and toasty warm, probably about 112 degrees.

Kory Kogon
Yeah, it's getting there. It's still early morning, so it's 85 but we're getting there.

Greg Voisen
You'll get there by the time it's one o'clock. You'll be feeling it well. It's good to have you on the show, and it's always good to speak about a path, as you say, to extraordinary productivity. And you are with the Franklin Covey company, and I'll let people know a little bit about you. Kory. She's a Global Practice Leader for productivity, focusing her research and content development around time management, project management and communication skills. In addition to co-authoring this book, Cory is one of the authors of project management for unofficial project managers, which we did a podcast on previously. We'll put a link to that. And prior to Franklin Covey, Kory spent six years as the Executive Vice President of Worldwide operations or alpha Graphics, Inc. So that was a if everybody remembers. I don't know if it's still there, but they used the franchise, yeah, is it?

Kory Kogon
Well, oh yeah, oh yeah.

Greg Voisen
I didn't know of alpha grab. I hadn't seen the name in a while. So, here's a book. Everybody go out and get yourself a copy of “The 5 Choices”. We'll put a link to handle us on for that. And Kory, I think, you know, we're all dealing with the same amount of time, no matter what it is, but we all feel like our time is all jammed up and that we don't have that amount of time. In your productivity paradox, you state that it’s both easier and harder than ever before to achieve extraordinary productivity and feel accomplished in our lives. In other words, the wins. How do we get the wins out of this? Because I'm gonna say 60 to 70% of the population is working behind a computer and a desk. I know we still have agriculture in this country, but it's not as big as it was. Was. Can you explain the concept of productivity paradox and how it really inspired not only you to write this, but Adam Merrill and Leon Ryan as well? I hope I'm pronouncing it well. So there were three of you who wrote this book for Covey, right?

Kory Kogon
hmm, yeah. Adam Merrill and Lena Rinne. Leena

Greg Voisen
Leena Rinne, okay, I got that one really messed up, but Lena Renee and Adam Merrill wrote this with you. And so what inspired the three of you at Covey to kind of come together and decide, okay, we want to create this. This the five choices book the path to extraordinary productivity.

Kory Kogon
Well, you know, it started back when, because if you think about Covey, most people know us for the seven habits of highly effective people and habit three, first things first was sort of the culmination of habits one and two of if I really want to take responsibility and envision, you know, my life, you know, roadmap my life. Then this principle of focus, we need to really focus on what's important and do that and get those things done in the midst of the busyness. And that was so popular that that evolved over time, first things first became what matters most, focus achieving highest priorities, and then a number of years ago, again, as the world changes and our circumstances change, we continue to upgrade our work, and it was time for us to take it to the next level, Based on what was happening with technology and the workplace, etc, and so that was a lot of the motivation. But this idea to the paradox is what started, you know, starts the book and our workshops around, around the five choices, because it really became, we came to the place where it is both easier and harder than ever to achieve extraordinary productivity, even since we came out with that line and that paradox, that paradox, continues to take on more and more meaning as now artificial intelligence. This has become part of the technology and all of that, but the paradise. So the inspiration was this idea of everybody saying, Wow, use the technology. It's going to make things easier. Which it does. I mean, thank goodness for some of the medical technologies and things that saved my own life, let alone others that we didn't have 10 or 15 years ago. But on the other hand, technology just unleashes this incredible flow of information that comes at us and just completely overwhelms us and distracts us, which that's a whole topic in itself about companies have become so good at distracting our brains because it can. So that was the inspiration. That paradox really is foundational. It's not all about technology, but boy, we keep getting told that a lot of these tools gonna make our life easier. Some do, but if we're not careful, it really can completely overwhelm us and speed the world up

Greg Voisen
well. And it's really, I think, when it comes down to it, if we're distracted, then it's really simplicity. So the simpler things, you know, and Stephen McCombie, SR is probably known for his chart. Now, I guess there is some controversy about the urgent, the unimportant. You know, did that actually come from Eisenhower? Right? I don't know if it was or it did. I'm not going to debate it, because I learned it from Stephen Covey. I didn't learn it from Eisenhower, but you in in choice number one, it says, act on important, don't react to the urgent. You state that we make choices based on two factors, importance and urgency. And that's absolutely true, that that that what's built in our DNA is in our DNA. That's who we are as people. What strategies can individuals use to identify and prioritize the most important tasks? And I think anymore, because our task list seems to have gotten bigger and bigger and bigger and longer and longer and longer, we're having much more difficult time trying to figure out how to act on the important

Kory Kogon
now, the so it is a matrix, and let's give Eisenhower credit where credit is due. It was called the Eisenhower, something like that. So he had actually put it out there, and Stephen institutionalized it. So that's and Stephen Covey is the first one to say that his, you know, his work and his principles are not new. It's the way it's packaged that makes it all accessible, uh, for people to really do something with. So closing the knowing, doing gap was really Stephen's strength and how he developed. You know, a lot of that work, the the confluence of the word important, urgent, creates that matrix. And when you say, you know, how do we identify what's most important? What we mean is, what are those things that are really important, but not but not urgent? Quadrant one is important and urgent. Quadrant Two is important and not urgent. Important and urgent might be the IT system broke down. I have a customer that's on fire. I My child is, you know, I've got to do all those things. Those are things that need to be done in the moment, which a lot of us get addicted to. That that's, you know, it's just what we you know, we need to make things happen and all of that. Back to your question. Quadrant two, those things that are important and urgent, somebody needs to just, I can't tell you what's in that quadrant you need to decide based on your life and what you're doing, what are the most important things that you need to do with high quality to fulfill your few key roles in life. So as you know a vice president, Franklin Covey, what are the things that I need to do with quality as a you know, family member and that you know as a Don what are the things that I need to do, and even if it's just work related, what are the most important things? What project, what plans do I have my goals set? Do I have time for planning? What are the important things that I need to do and get that established as really important once you get and this is not Pollyanna, because I've heard Greg, some people say, Oh, that Franklin Cubby, quadrant two. Really nice place to be, but we don't have time for it. You don't have time not to take the time to establish those things that need to be done with quality and on time. Those two factors, if you will. Allow the other quadrants to always get in the way. You are not going to get those things done. So those things that are urgent and important, the crises that are ongoing, if you live for crises, you're not going to get the important things done. If you are working on stuff that is urgent and not important. Other people's minor issues, unproductive meetings, which we all know and love. If you're sort of going there, it's taking your time and attention away from quadrant two. If you are doing stuff that's not important, not urgent, it means you're laying on the couch watching television for eight hours. Nothing wrong with watching television, but there were, you're burnt out two hours. Maybe is, you know, renewal and important, but eight hours, you know, or whatever it might be, not being judgmental, quadrant four is where you go when you're burnt out from the urgencies of one and three. So just an answer to your question, how do you determine what's the most important, whether they're tasks, assignments or goals, sit down, really, lay it out, and then figure out how to mitigate or eliminate some of the things that I might be self imposing accidentally in those other quadrants. So I free up the time and space to make sure I'm putting my best time and attention on those things that are most important. And I go to sleep at night feeling like I accomplish something.

Greg Voisen
You know, the the old, uh, adage, you know, when I go back to my Franklin planners, was it an A, A, B or a C item? Was it at the top priority list? I mean, I go back to the day of carrying an actual paper planner, right? And I used Covey's product for years and years and years. So let's, let's not discount that, because that actually helped me to be extremely productive. But I think we're looking for healthy productivity these days. I recently just had David Allen on, and they were talking about the new book teams, right? And it's not here to promote teams or David, but to make a comment, yeah, that's something that they observe, and I think it's something you've observed at cubby as well, and that is that if there isn't an agenda, and there is no reason for your inclusion in the meeting, so you making a contribution to a meeting. And they instituted this at some companies, and I think this goes along with this. You don't have to go to the meeting, right? So they did this in a big financial services firm, and they realized that a lot of people just stopped going to the meetings. And they were like, wow, this is great, because we have productive time, because we're spending so much time going to these meetings. So if they're so their rule was, if you didn't have an agenda, you were on the agenda, but you weren't making a contribution, then the reality is you didn't need to go to that meeting. And I thought that was a very interesting comment that they made, and that goes along with this, if you would discuss the impact of consistently reacting to urgent tasks. So I know that that creates burnout, and a lot of people probably do. But how do they flip the switch to get away from that, to look more toward long term productivity and well being? In other words, how do I basically make myself feel better and get the winds during the day that I need to get, to get the endorphin releases. We talk about the chemical responses, the oxytocins that come out as a result of me getting some wins, versus me just grinding away at these little tasks all day long that are sitting there and I'm going, Oh my God, I've got to get them done. So let's just get them done, right?

Kory Kogon
So a couple of things. Back to your meetings, just and this is in, this is in in the book, one of many examples, worked with a large sales division of a large company that everybody would know and love, been around for 100 years, and they were figuring out how you know how to make their salespeople more productive, what was, what were the things that they were reacting to all day long that we could scrape out and to free up their time? And I ended up spending time with couple of salespeople in the freezers here in Arizona, of like, you know, the big food stores, observing salespeople at work. I'm telling you that to say that the C level person who was leading this initiative, when we talked about meetings, because sometimes it needs to come from the top. They put their eye, they spend time and put their eyes on meetings, and eliminated six hours of meetings per. Week, you know, in the company. So when you quantify that, I mean, that's sort of, that's sort of amazing to your question, the idea and something that in the media was in my interview, as I was interviewed a lot, you'll find it on LinkedIn. It was one of the most or on, you know, just productivity playbook on a number of different interviews that I had done, the question that got asked was my thoughts on busy versus productive? Because one of the problems, and I'll get to the impact of it out there, is even to this to even to this day, maybe not so much the younger generations, but still prevalent in the older generations, is this idea that busy is a badge of honor, or some, for some, not all. Again, I want to be careful about that, but busy is a badge of honor. Oh, I'm so busy. Oh, I'm busier than you are, kind of thing, and that suggests productivity, when, in fact, it doesn't. And for leaders out there, actually, to the point I was just making is now more detrimental than ever to the younger generations that are coming in that are really concerned with work life balance and work and personal balance. That's because life is work is part of your life and so, so, so we need to be careful with that busy is not a badge of honor, and we are really busy. We don't want to take away from that, but we should be busy. And add to that and say I was crazy busy. Today was the end of a quarter for us, or the end of the year, and I managed to go to my kids soccer game. I managed to get this big project done that I had to get done with quality. I got a couple of things done in the midst of the dizziness. The funny thing Greg is sad or not. Sometimes it's like, ugh. I'm so glad I got that one email out that I along that I needed to do really well. I feel accomplished. Sometimes it's it's down to that one thing about this urgency when you are addicted to urgency, the the chemical to be talked about is cortisol, when you are hitting that urgency button over and over and over, cortisol was helpful back in prehistoric times when the saber tooth tiger was approaching, you know, the hearth and your body needed the your blood pressure to go up. It needed to send oxygen to your limbs to be strong, and it sort of took it out of your mind, and it did a whole thing. And you went and you took care of the saber tooth tiger, and he went back to dinner. Today, people are pressing that. I mean, we're doing, I'm doing. I mean, you check the new whatever you're doing, you're pushing this cortisol button. And that can be an overdose, and that's called cortisol poisoning. I've had friends who have ended up in the hospital because of the levels of stress from this constant urgency. And if you allow what we call quadrant one to get bigger and bigger and bigger, because you like to wait till last minute, I get things done when I'm under pressure, you know, those kinds of things, you really, really taking a bite out of your health and well being. And if you're a leader and setting that model for others, you're not going to keep those people very long. Well,

Greg Voisen
I remember there, it probably still is something at Franklin Covey, but, and I think it was Stephen Covey that said this, you guys used to have signs you'd put on your doors and you could close your door, and it said, I'm thinking, right? And I really love that, because how many people out there can really say that they've distributed science to their employees that they could stick up and say they're thinking, don't bother me, because that's what I'm doing. Because when it really comes down to the creative work, the most important work is done when we're giving time to think, when we're given time to create, given time to be much more innovative. Now that leads me to this question, and I'm skipping around here. There's obviously choices, and you've got five, but three is schedule. The big rocks don't sort gravel that's been used all over the place. We everybody out there knows it from EOS entrepreneur operating systems, and everyone uses it. Can you explain the concept of a big rock and the gravel in the. Context of productivity. Because honestly, I'm sure many of my listeners know about the gravel and the rocks in the sand and the big rocks, but I think it's good for you to give it it, give it some explanation.

Kory Kogon
Stephen did so begin that metaphor and said, yes, many people have picked up on it. The you know, the the gravel really is when you think about and we have a really fun video that actually is on, it's public out there on, we call it buried alive. And it's a fun little minute and a half video that just shows all of the gravel. It's part of the course to all of all of the gravel, you know, just coming at us all day long, all the things that we need to do. And we get overwhelmed, you know, by all the little things. And in this metaphor, you know, Stephen, you you have a bucket filled with this gravel, and you have all these big rocks that represent the important things you need to do. And because the bucket is so full of gravel, you can't get the big rocks in there. It's too full. But if you dump out all the gravel, and you put the big rocks in first, I need to take a vacation. I need to do this big project, all those things, put it in first, and then you you can pour the gravel in, and it goes in around it, and everything fits in. Okay, I'm not a fan to be candid about putting in sand and water and all that kind of stuff, because that, to me, is complete overwhelm. Because the idea is, how do I get all of the big rocks in there, and also take a little the gravel out, you know, get rid of some of the things that are not that important, that maybe I shouldn't be doing. Maybe I should be delegating some things to other people, you know, that kind of thing. But the moral of that story is that the big rocks go in first, and that is a direct connection to how I do my planning. And by the way, Greg the the Franklin planner company, spun off a number of years ago. Now they still do five, six, $7, million a year in paper planners, because people love that. I mean, we get yelled at sometimes, like, Why did you stop selling planners? I mean, it wasn't the business. You know, we're a big company that was, you know, small potatoes, somebody's, you know, it's being run, and it's out there. But no apologies for liking paper. Some people do. And I think there's been a renaissance. There's a lot of companies out there. Michael Porter, I mean, there's people out there that have produced the new, new planners, yeah. Michael

Greg Voisen
Hyatt, Michael Hyatt, there's lots of people. Michael Hyatt, yeah, yeah. The thing is, is Covey was really the first and the biggest, right? And I recognize that the digital world, and that's where we're going next, started eroding it and, and that's okay, you know, I go back to the days of the Palm Pilot, right? And I used to share, yeah, my information with somebody through a palm pilot. And everybody's like, What the heck was a palm pilot when I say that. But the reality is, is, is that is, slowly and surely, those paper planners did get eroded quite a bit, because there was a big business for you guys originally, and now it's a much smaller one, but in Rule four, you say, rule your technology. Don't let it rule you. You state that we should make technology work for us, not against us. Now we see a rise in AI. We see a rise in this tool being able to do things for us that were actually a lot of the gravel, okay, right? And, and I am being impacted positively, yeah, by letting ai do my gravel. Okay, maybe that's a weird way to say this. No, I will tell you that, um, last night, first time, I'm going to let my listeners know, I tried Microsoft copilot, and I had it create a PowerPoint presentation based on a prompt. Now all of us know that there are times we have to do PowerPoint presentations, and we know how long they can take. It literally took less than three minutes for it to create a 12 slide PowerPoint presentation that made my point. Yeah, that, to me, is gravel. The big stuff is, what am I going to say during that presentation that I should be focusing my effort on, not the actual creation of some fancy slide that does it right? So if you would talk with the listeners about that and how has the rise of technology impacted productivity, both positively and negatively.

Kory Kogon
So remember what we said, the paradox, it's both easier and harder than ever to achieve extraordinary productivity. So let's just. The harder part first, and I'll come back to AI, the harder part is, and I think what's really important for your listeners to know is that this was not necessarily about time management. Well, we threw that sort of out a little bit to say because of what you said, We're knowledge workers paid to think, innovate, create and execute. That's so I love what you said about you know, you're right. You need to, you need time to think. And a lot of people will say, Oh, I wish I had time to think. I don't having Having said that though, with with our technology? Are we getting distracted by it? So we are all reaching for my cell phone. We're all attached to our cell phones. That's technology. Are we addicted to watching the news all day long? Are we addicted to social media. I mean, all of those are addicted to video games. None of those are to be judgmental, but the technology can addict us. And when you think about what quadrants we talked about before, what I say is, or what quadrant are you win when you're on social media or playing games or whatever? Are you in quadrant three, quadrant four? Or are you using technology in a quadrant two kind of way? So technology and and the amount of information that comes into us through our email, through slack, through teams is completely overwhelming, overwhelming. That blue Bo, I mean, you're all feeling it as I'm talking about it, the blue notification box, the dings, the pings, everything coming at us is through technology, and it's only getting faster and faster and faster. So it's harder than ever to be productive when you've got all of this that's coming at us.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, it looks so you're you're so absolutely true. You know, I have a client who still works with Marty Cooper. If you don't know who Marty Cooper is, for all of my listeners, he literally is the inventor of the cell phone. Okay? He's 90 something years old. And there's a few quotes that came up for me. He says, Don't you should not be the slave to the phone. Yeah, the optimum cell phone is one that I think someday, he said, will be embedded by your ear. I now I'm not certain where that is. What else is there in life but to accomplish things and do things, he says, and what's the biggest function of a cell phone? Now, that's what you really should think about. The in everybody's case, it's communication, better communication, quicker, communication, more effective communication. But unfortunately, we've allowed ourselves to be on all the time because the cell phone is something we carry with us. It's in our pockets, in our purses, it's in wherever. And that part of it is the negative part. So I would say, you know, learn how to turn the damn thing off during times when you want to think and don't worry about it. If somebody really wants to get in touch with you, with a text message or whatever, they're going to find a way you don't need to worry about it. But it is a real positive, and so is AI. Now, you said you were going to comment about AI. Do you have any comment like the one I just made, where I did a PowerPoint in four and a half minutes that I didn't think was going to happen? Yeah,

Kory Kogon
absolutely, absolutely. And by the way, there's addictive qualities that you know, again, you know, the brain has two organizing principles. It avoids threat and looks for reward in that order. And even when you put your cell phone down and it dings, you're attracted to it, because it's an unknown for your brain, like, who needs me? And the reward, the dopamine hit of, oh, somebody needs me is almost more than we can, you know, deal with and and so being that's, that's the signs, you know, of of addiction. So I just want to say to people out there, easier said than done, putting it down, but the most important part about putting it down is that your brain cannot do two things well at one time, use a book called switch or switching. Your brain can switch and we can multitask. But the research clearly shows that if you want to do something with quality, you need to give somebody full attention, so particularly if you are a leader and you. Of people, if you're trying to work on your cell phone and they're trying to talk to you at the same time that you are demoralizing them without even knowing it. Back to the positives. Lots of positives about technology. Remember what I said earlier? There's medical technology that did not exist 15 years ago, that if they did not have that, I would not be standing here today. AI is revolutionizing everything, and the point that you made, Greg is really important. AI has the ability to take on if you know how to use it, because right now, some people, a lot of people, are still fearful of it like they were with other technologies. It's going to take over my job. It's not going to be helpful. AI has a remarkable capability to do some of the tasks that you were doing that was killing your time. And you should be open minded, because it is both easier and harder than ever to achieve extraordinary productivity. You should be embracing and learning. Take the time. It's a quadrant two item. Take a core. We don't have them without what we do at Franklin Covey, go to one of the libraries and make it an important and not urgent task to learn a little about AI and getting the right prompts so that it can write emails for you. It can create a PowerPoint for you. One of my team members, late last night, created a little video script for me to review this morning, those kinds of things. So technology can be amazing. That's why we say rule your technology. Don't let it rule you. Embrace embrace it and find the ways that it's going to help you achieve q2 but don't use your technology in a q3 or q4 quadrant three, quadrant four. Kind of way it

Greg Voisen
is a tool that also allows you to earn more of what you're worth. So what I mean by that is that the tool can take those mundane things you used to do, make them quicker. And let's say you're a consultant, and you charge by the hour, it now allows you to multiply. It's a multiplying effect the numbers of people you could deal with because you're now getting ready many of the mundane tasks. Now, that doesn't mean you don't have an assistant or whatever to help you, but the reality is, is that it has been, I'm just speaking from myself, and I've talked to a lot of people, highly effective, and allowing us be to be of more value to many clients. So you have this rule number five, which is, this is the last one. The last, I should say, choice, not right, fuel your fire. Don't burn out. Focuses on the crucial aspects of maintaining personal energy. And this is really a very, very key takeaway for people. I've I've had many people on the show talk about our energy, how much energy we have during the day. Where can we do it that we have people now that have phones that you put your finger on the back and you get heart rate variability, right? So what is my HRV? Am I in a Go State? Am I in a pause state? Am I what? What state Am I in? And you were just saying you had friends that completely burned out, like, literally, they were just toast, right? And I do believe there's something to this, and even at an organizational level, to look at teams and see it is the team burning out? Have we put too much on the team? Do we need to adjust what it is that we're doing? What are some of the early warning signs of overload and Miss energy management? And what should individuals really watch out for so they don't let's just call it burnout.

Kory Kogon
Well, I you know, I think everybody could answer, you know that, that that question, I think everybody can answer. They know what it feels like. You're not sleeping well, you are snapping at people. You I think really pops through. One is, you finish work. And then I'm pointing there, because that's outside my door to my family, versus the window to the world out there is, you know, you finish work. Do you have anything left? When your partner, your spouse, or any member of the family is like, Oh, I'm so glad you're off work or your home, and they're like, ready to have a conversation with you, and you just don't have anything to give. I mean, those are signs of those are signs of burnout. You know, your autoimmune system starts to fail you if you if you notice that, you know, you tend to get sick on the weekends instead of. When you when you're working. So, I mean, there's a lot of things that you know constitute burnout, and we're at we're actually working on a module now called optimize or enhance team well being, because we do say that the leaders really need to be very reflective on are they burning out themselves? What are the things that they should be doing to model well being and, you know, and energy and and set the model so that the team will mirror that as well. We talk about in the book The five energy drivers. And this is not going to be rocket science for people, eat, sleep, relax, connect with others and move. Not rocket science. But when you think about that, are we doing? Are we moving enough? You know, when the pandemic started, I, like everybody else, came to back, you know, home and sat, I'm looking down here, sat in a chair for a while. It took me about a year before I sat, because I built in furniture. And some one of my people told me about a standing you know, I know this is old news now, but it was really important a standing desk that can sit on my thing that you know, is hydraulic goes up and down. And for the last two and a half years, I stand most of the day and take sitting breaks because you need to move. We're not built to sit like I said earlier. We got enough sleep. That's killer. You can read all the articles on that Ortiz, I

Greg Voisen
hate to say it. I have I hate to say it, but I have two standing desks, and I I had them up most of the time, and there's one right there that people can't see off screen, and there's one right here, that's the electronic one. And 80% of the time it's not up, and it's my own darn fault. But you know what? You just reminded me that I need to start doing these podcast interviews standing so I'm gonna do that. I like that, and I do know that people probably know when they're burning out. One of them is when their mind just gets completely lost and can't focus. Yep, and they literally, I don't want to say daydreaming is bad, but it's actually different than daydreaming. Daydreaming is fun at this state you're just like questioning the whole world, what's going on. And so those are one of the keys for burnout. This is the book, the five choices. I'm going to say everybody should go get that. So if you were to leave our listeners with three main points from the book, what would they be, and how do you recommending using this to achieve and I'm going to say this, I coined a term a long time ago, and I haven't used it in a while, But I used to call it productive harmony, okay, and and I used to teach it in my workshops. I had my own workshops, and people would always say, Well, what is productive harmony? And to me, it's this balance between both our physical, emotional and spiritual well beings being able to bring that to work and make a contribution to not only the people we work with, but our clients and customers right and now bring that back home when we're done, and be able to actually be at one with the people that we love in our life. And so, you know, productive harmony is is a something that I think people need to work on. It might be kind of a weird word for you, but it's one I coined, and I think it works.

Kory Kogon
Oh, I think I think that is great. And I think the three things that I would feed into that is sort of where we started. You have to get clear. And again, a lot of us sort of know it inside this, this neurology or neurological thing of labeling and reappraising, write things down. I know that sounds again. One day, you've heard it a million times. What are the few most important things that would that really will help you feel most accomplished at the end of the day. What's a cue to, and I will also say, to get to that. And this is about choice. Two really important get to that list through thinking through the few, the few, the few most important roles you play in your life right now. So I'm going to productive harmony here, Greg, because for me to say writing with the most important things is functional. Okay, I'll write it down. Yeah, I'm trying to get to emotional, head and heart on this. I am, you know, like I said, a speaker. I'm a VP of content development for Franklin Covey. I take that really seriously, and I have, you know, what we call a q2, statement around my contribution, that's what you said, my contribution. It's not just a job for me. It's it's a contribution to how I help change people and teams and leaders lines to do something different the next day, to be able to achieve in great, even greater, greater, greater things. So not everybody is in a job they love, but there's a purpose for their job. In that role, in the moment, find the purpose and be the best that you can be. If you're a parent, if you're a dog, Mother, if you're whatever you are, a community service person, what are the few, not 20, roles, but what are the few most important roles that you have in your life, and what is extraordinary look like in those roles? And I don't mean solving world peace, although we certainly could use that right now, but just what is, what does accomplishment at the end of the day look like then when you have that now creates, what are the few most important things I need to get done to make sure I'm achieving that? So I've combined my head and my heart. And the third thing I would say is really work on and I have to. I'm speaking for myself, reducing screen time. I know that my brain is totally wired into this. I could feel it at night when I'm trying to go to sleep like now I can't sleep. Let me start. Let me look at the news. You got to reduce the screen time, both for yourself and the people that you love and care for, because what I said to you before, when you're busy working on a cell phone and they're trying to talk to you, have a conversation personally, professionally. That is a killer of productivity, personally and professionally. So those are the three things your list, your roles to get to that list and watch it on your technology. And four would be, embrace it earlier. Like you said, you know, embrace it to help relieve some of the burden.

Greg Voisen
Those are great tips and and I'd add for people, one that I learned a long time ago, which I really tried to do it's like, even we do these shows on Tuesday, right? For me, it's time blocking, yes, and I haven't found anything that's quite as valuable, I'll be honest with you, as the ability to put a time block in your calendar and say, This is what I do now. It's almost like, okay, that's what I'm doing. You know, right now. That's what I'm supposed to be doing right now, versus, oh, I'm supposed to get distracted over here. No, I do all my podcasts. I got them lined up. Yeah, they're all on Tuesday. That's what I do, you know. And people say, Well, do you do them all week long? And I go, No, I don't. I have other things I have to do, right? So the I think it's really, really important to look at it that way. I know this is sounds really strange, but when people produce a TV show, and a long, long time ago, Kory, I was on a show called The Dating Game, oh my and at the time, it was a gentleman by the name of Lang, trying to remember his first name. But he was Lang, oh, you remember his name?

Kory Kogon
See, I was two years old.

Greg Voisen
Okay, so, I'm on the show. And they, they taped the show, and he puts on a whole new outfit, and he comes back out, yeah, he tapes another show, right? And he put on a whole new outfit, and he taped. And I learned something by that they did two weeks of taping in one day right now it he might have been exhausted at the end from all the changes that he had. But the reality was they didn't have to bring in more production crews, more people, more whatever, to make it more expensive. Chuck Berry had it, right. Let's do them all in two weeks, all month, right? So I learned something from that, and I learned a lot from you this morning, and I want to thank you for being on the show and spending some time with our listeners. For everybody who's out there, again, here's the book. It's not a new book by any means. I'm covering my face, but it's a book that's definitely a classic worth getting, picking up, reading and taking some if you only take one or two points from it that we talked about from the interview today, it's really going to help you be at more be in more harmony and be at more peace with your life. And I think that's the most important thing. Kory, thanks for being on the show. Thanks for spending some time with us. You have a wonderful rest of your day.

Kory Kogon
Thanks for having me. Always great. Greg, take care everybody, and I wish the best on everybody's journey to extraordinary productivity.