Greg Voisen
Well, Chip, welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. There you are in Santa Fe, New Mexico. That's a beautiful portrait behind you. It's always a pleasure having you and on Inside Personal Growth. It's been a long time since you were last on. And it was your book on Equations, which is still one of my favorites.

Chip Conley
Yeah, thank you. It's great to be here.

Greg Voisen
And we're going to be talking about this book, Learning to Love Midlife: 12 Reasons Why Life Gets Better with Age. And there. There's particularly reasons why Chip wrote this book. And I can only garner why through having read the book, come up with some great questions for us to ask Chip today about the book. So, everybody out there can learn. But I'm going to tell him a little bit about you. He has become the CEO whisperer as the mentor to countless young entrepreneurs, artists, politicians and athletes. He's disrupted his favorite industry, hospitality twice. He became the what do you actually the term that you use the father modern elder for Airbnb? This is Chip seventh book. And he's a New York Times bestseller based on his popular daily blog, wisdom. Well, if you want to learn more about Chip, go to chipconley.com. That's chipconley.com. It's probably not too many of my listeners that don't know who you are. He's well considered to be the cross guard at the dicey intersection of psychology and business. He's been a mainstage speaker at TED X conference multiple times. He also cares more about being a thoughtful leader than being a thought leader. He's the co-founder and CEO of modern elder Academy, which we'll put a link to that as well. And it's the first world's first midlife wisdom School, where he attends to learn and reimagine the purpose of their lives, the campuses in Baja, sir Mexico and Santa Fe where he is right now. So you can go to a couple of websites to learn more about Chip and we'll put that up there. Wonderful book for everybody out there, Chip. Let's dive right in. Because people today with COVID, and reconsidering their life and reimagining things are, I think, closer now than ever, to letting all this bubble up inside of them around midlife. And you have four previous books to your credit. And this says actually actually six thanks. Yeah. This book, however, is quite different from the previous books. Why did you write this book? And what do you hope that the readers and the listeners today are going to take away from our podcast?

Chip Conley
You know, midlife has the worst brand of any life stage. What's the number one word you think of Greg when you hear midlife?

Greg Voisen
Well, that was a crisis is that we're exactly. So, remember that guy up in Santa Barbara, who taught the whole thing around midlife for the longest time? I had a whole incident injured. Frederick. Yeah, yep. And I loved his diagrams because his diagrams really explained it well. There.

Chip Conley
His his wife is runs the Hudson Institute and we work with them. They're a partner of ours at MEA. So wanted to write this book partly because I think midlife has a bad brand. I don't think a lot of people understand what's going on in midlife. I lost five male friends to suicide in midlife back during the great recession. And so I would just say that I think midlife is less of a crisis and more of a chrysalis. If you think about the caterpillar, and a butterfly journey, midlife is the chrysalis. It's dark and gooey and solitary, but it's also where the transformation happens. And so what I wanted to explore with this book, but also with the modern elder Academy MBA, the world's first midlife wisdom school was how do we help people to reimagine and repurpose themselves in midlife and consciously curate the second half of their adult life? Well,

Greg Voisen
and you do it well through mea and your workshops, then I looked at videos and testimonials, and it's really cool. The people what happens the transformation. Now, you mentioned the introduction that midlife is when we begin to worry that life isn't turning out the way we'd expected. And I would say, Yes, that's true and more I think it's when we look at our finitude as well. How long do we have what kind of difference can we make? Where are we living our purpose? Our relationship with our spouse, our children, everything right? What in your estimation are the three stages of midlife and what happens to us mentally during each of those stages.

Chip Conley
So many sociologists now say that midlife lasts 40 years, which is a long time, because it's really the bridge between early adulthood and later adulthood. And if more and more people are living till 100 later adulthood might be from 75 to 100, and early adulthood might be from 18 to 35. So 35 to 75 is how we characterize it if there are three stages that define that 40 year period. The first stage is early midlife, which is from 35 to 50. It's a rough period, the you curve of happiness research, social science research shows us the least happy time and adulthood between 35 and 50. When we're sort of, you know, like, getting disappointed, we realized we're disappointed because our expectations are not matching our reality. And then 50 to 60 is the core of midlife, it's really when the midlife crisis is happening, the transformation is going on. And then from 60 to 75, is later midlife. And often I'm 63. And so later midlife is when we are dealing with our own health issues dealing with our parents, possibly if they haven't passed away, and yet, we at that point, we're dealing with retirement, and how do we want to live the later, you know, few decades of our life? So midlife is a long period, but it has three distinct time periods within it.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, well, you know, I think we all learn to cope and transition into it in a different way. And your school is there to help people really awaken to the possibilities of what can transform and what lies ahead can actually be way better than what transpired prior to that. Did you quote Brene Brown and her definition of midlife unraveling? What was it that unravel what that unraveling like for you? And what advice would you have for listeners that are going through unraveling? And if you would speak if you would, because you had a health crisis? You got cancer. And you also had a son that had mental problems as well. Right? How's that? How's it affected you? And what are what about the your thoughts about middle like the last five friends during the COVID period? You went through your own scare with cancer? You had a son that was challenged. And and if I'm not mistaken, I can't remember did he? Is he still with us? Or no? Yes, he is. Okay, okay. Okay. So, because you look, there's not one person out there, including your business, finances, your business kind of falling apart. You then have to team up with I watched your video team up with Airbnb. Thank God, what a great offering and an opportunity for you. So look, you got all this conversion, and it happened within a very short period of time.

Chip Conley
Yeah, yeah. Britney is a friend and brunette when she first said to me Chip, midlife is an unraveling. I said, like, oh god, that's terrible. When you hear someone say that they're, they're unraveling. It's like they've lost their mind. And she said to me, then, if you Chip if you look in the dictionary, under the word Ravel, it means so tightly wound you can't get it done. You're stuck. And I guess there's a lot of people in midlife who feels stuck. And I did. In my late 40s, I had a relate long term relationship ending I had a foster son who was an adult, going to prison wrongfully who had emotional mental issues. I had a company that I was running that didn't want to run anymore that was running out of cash. And, you know, I was losing friends, I had an N D, E, and near death experience, due to an allergic reaction to an antibiotic. So pretty much everything that could go wrong was going wrong in my life. And what I could see was that I had accumulated so much, so many expectations, so many identities, I really put myself in a position where I felt really stuck by all of my the expectations I had for myself. And what I needed to do is something that we do at the modern elder Academy at MBA is called the Great midlife edit. And it's really to let go of the obligations and the responsibilities, the roles, the identities, maybe even the stuff in our life that isn't serving us anymore, and learning how to discern what's truly essential. And that is what I did around age 50. And I spent two years then doing what's called an midlife atrium, just sort of like really reflecting on how do I want to live the second half of my adult life and and then yeah, I was asked by age 52 by the founders of Airbnb to become their Modern elder, they define the modern elder as someone who is as curious as they are wise. And so that's how I really started focusing more on wisdom. Because they really appreciated me, I guess, for my wisdom. And ultimately, that led to creating the modern elder Academy mea the world's first midlife wisdom school with these locations, both Baja and Santa Fe. It

Greg Voisen
really is an interesting life. And you know, by the events in your life, you have all people are so well prepared to lead this modern elder Academy. And you've had the opportunity to work with 1000s of people in this in midlife that have visited modern elder Academy. And on three separate campuses, right. You've had helped them to reimagine, as you said and repurpose themselves. What can listeners expect, should they attend an mea event and a community of support that they will get that will follow them after the journey after this initial journey with the community that they bond with, and the cohorts they bond with it? Mea? Yeah,

Chip Conley
so we've have over 4000 alumni from 47 countries, with the average age being about 55, who've come as people as young as 25. And as old as 88. Our program, our workshop program is five nights long it is it has four different elements to it, it's helping people to navigate transitions, cultivate purpose, own their wisdom, and reframe their relationship with aging. Because if you can actually shift your mindset on aging from a negative to a positive, about aging, you gained seven and a half years of additional life. So that's what a workshop program is typically about two dozen people in a workshop, it's pretty deep goes, you know, you build very close relationships, because we create a crucible for life changing conversations. That group that cohort that you're in, once you leave Baja, or Santa Fe on stays together has zoom calls. But then you go back home. And there are 26 regional chapters around the world. So you can connect with that group of people in your own area. And then we also have online programs, and the online programs are very popular. And those are on our server or core themes. And a lot of people especially if they don't have the time or the money to go for a trip, they use that. But also we also have financial aid for our workshop programs.

Greg Voisen
Interested in is it's a full, and I'm gonna put the link to the website up there from listeners, you know, and I remember I go back in time, obviously, like I said, I'm going to be almost 70 in July will be 70 in July, to Bob Buford, which is now headed up by Lloyd Brown. And I remember going to some of those many workshops that they would have for people trying to go from, from having more meaning more significance in their life, having a purpose in their life. They've been hard driven business people. But I'm going to shift this question a little bit because it was always a bit of round. Christianity, not spiritual Islam but Christianity. Right now I you know, look, I have 1000s of people listen to this podcast. And they know that that I'm as close to Buddhist as could be right that's about it. I'm a self realization fellowship devotee? How do you dive into this side of it with people at mea because it is such a significant part of us finding more meaning in our life. And I'm not just going to say the ethereal but the reality is, if you have a God up there somewhere or somebody that you something that you worship to, how do you guys deal with that?

Chip Conley
You know, Richard Rohr is a famous Christian mystic Catholic priest 40 or 50 books, and he's an MBA along he came to Baja to collapse, and he's also on our faculty teaching in, in Santa Fe in July. And he said, quite famously, that the primary operating system in our life and for the first half of our life, is our ego. It's what individuate it as this is what propels us forward. It's what helps us give us a sense of who we are. And he says around midlife, there's a primary operating system change from your ego to your soul. And yet no one gives you operating instructions for this new operating system to soul. But there's there's evidence of people feeling that when they feel a little bit more curiosity about the meaning of life, or about their purpose, or about spirituality or religion in general, and there's a bunch of data that backs this up So at mea, we have a lot of people who come there who might feel a stirring inside of them. But they don't have words to describe what it feels like. There's a sense of awe and a curiosity about things bigger than themselves. And so we are not specific to a particular religion or spiritual program, right? Definitely, we definitely offer mindfulness programs and yoga and meditation, instruction and things like that. But we have people who are devout Christians, devout Jews, we have a rabbi who's on our faculty, who teaches, you know, all the time, we have a large sec, segment of Buddhists, and people of all faiths and atheists and agnostics too. I think what's common amongst all of these people, is a sense that, at some point in your life, maybe it's midlife, you start to come to grips with the fact that the world doesn't revolve around you. And for a lot of people that happens earlier, because they have kids, etc. And that you want to serve, and you want to actually make a difference out there. And so feeling part of something bigger than yourself, is something that transcends all religious beliefs. And you know, at the center of it all is love, and how do you help people to take away some of the armor that they have piled up in their 20s 30s and 40s, such that they can actually be open to taking some of that armor and those identities off and disrobing and feeling really safe about just being who they are.

Greg Voisen
I think you hit the nail on the head. I think compassion and love are the keys. I mean, the Dalai Lama couldn't say it any more than he has. I reference to my listeners that listen to this podcast, go back and listen to a few podcasts that we did with Thomas Moore, which I think I think you will find someone who was a theologian and was involved as a priest at one point now broke away from that, but found spirituality a much different than religiosity. If you want to say it that way. Now, can you speak with us about the you curve of happiness? You mentioned that about 10 minutes ago? And why as you as as we have aged, you have gotten happier, that's you too. And you also have a blog called wisdom well, and darling dozen reasons is that right? Daring, dozens reasons. Can you speak with his big with us about that, and that resource, because that your website, the listeners can actually go to that blog entry, which you've got lots of blog entries? And you they can access this correct?

Chip Conley
Yeah, so the 12 reasons why life gets better with age is the subtitle of my book learning to love midlife. And it was really spawned from the with the daily blog, I have wisdom model, which you can find on the mea website, and a wisdom.com, or Chip conley.com. And you can, you can subscribe for free and we send you a morning, micro dose of wisdom. What the idea of these reasons that life gets better with age came to me when I just realized we have a very anti ageist world, we don't like age, aging feels like a bad thing. And we have a whole anti aging industrial complex that sells us products to try to make us feel younger. And what I knew is there's a lot of things that get worse with age, we know that short term memory gets worse with age, our body often gets worse with age. But what I felt was missing was like the thing helping people understand what gets better with age. And so that's really what the books about and that's what my blog is about. Everything from your emotional intelligence grows with age, your, your desire, your emotional, moderate, moderation, your ability to be less reactive, grows with age, your care, your the fact you care less what other people think about you is something that gets better with age, your wisdom grows with age, your ability to see the through line or the themes in your life grow with age, your ability to step off the treadmill, and and live your definition of success, rather than your parents or the community's definition of success. grows with age. And finally, you know, your ability to grow whole, not just grow old, but grow whole. integrate all of the different parts of yourself are chemically such that you are both an extrovert and an introvert. Someone with gravitas and levity. Someone who's curious and wise and to actually embody all of that with presence. and integrating as opposed to being compartmentalised, which is actually how we feel earlier in our life. These are all things that get better with age. And so I have basically a pro aging message, not an anti aging message of pro aging message to help people to see, with the you curve of happiness. People often are happier after age 50. And in their 50s, they're happier in their 40s 60s happier than 5070s happier than 60s and women in their 80s happier than 70s.

Greg Voisen
Blushing Sorry, I'm gonna throw you a quick little curveball here because they know you can answer it. We have two candidates running for President, that the big topic right now is age and mental acuity. And I don't care if it is Trump or Biden, what's what's kind of your position? Because I mean, when you look at that we have the most well, one of the most important leaders leadership roles in the country. Being

Chip Conley
I think it's the most leader, I think it's the most important leadership role. Yeah, there's no doubt about that. And it might be the most important leadership role in the world. So it's a demanding job. And I think so I start with that. I am a big believer in modern elders in people who are older, who have a lot to give back and have a lot of a lot of crystallized intelligence, one of the things that we get better with as we get older, is not fluid intelligence, which is being able to make decisions quickly and solve problems quickly. But we get better at being able to see the holistic picture sustained. And exactly and connect the dots. So connecting the dots is something you want a president to do. No doubt about it, you want to you want someone who's wise, and I think that comes with age, or it can come with age. I think one of the things that I struggle with, I have a blog post coming out in a couple of days. I struggle with the fact that in both cases, you know, there's no doubt that Biden comes across as looking older, he is actually three and a half years older, he comes across looking older, but Trump often comes across as looking like, like he's picking like a child. You can see he is he doesn't seem like he has wisdom and maturity. Right. So so whether what so I personally, I believe that the country is would be well served with a younger, younger candidates. Not not not, because I think older people don't have great opportunity to serve, but I think Biden is gonna be 86 When he finishes his second term, Trump would be 82. I just feel like for the demanding job, that is being president, which almost comes in you live your life in dog years, every one year of a human life is seven years, or every year of a dog like since like you age very quickly. Those photos of a bomb. I mean, Obama aged a lot. And he did. Yeah. So if you're aging in your 50s, it's one thing if you're aging in your 80s, it's another No, yes. So I don't say that to say, you know that these? These are the two choices we may have. And we may have to select amongst these two choices. Yeah,

Greg Voisen
yeah, I get I just threw you a curveball there. But I thought it was. I'm curious. I was curious. And and I do believe as you do, the country would be better served with somebody younger in that position. Most definitely. You know, you state midlife and we need to start distinguishing between lifespan and health span. I had Dan Buettner on here not that long ago.

Chip Conley
He's actually is a faculty member of mea, right.

Greg Voisen
And obviously, all the work he's done for National Geographic and the documentaries on Netflix and so on, which have just been fantastic. And his work around the nine variables that correlate to living longer. Can you speak about those variables? And I mean, because we're talking about lifespan versus health span. If you age and you don't have a good health, ie life. Yeah, it sometimes is not that cool, right.

Chip Conley
So let's let's be clear what lifespan isn't hulsman. So lifespan is your chronological age. health span is your your biological age. And so there are people there's lots of abilities now to be able to see, well, how old is your heart? I'm 63 years old, maybe my heart is 56. Maybe my liver is 82. Who knows, I mean, like you can actually understand how much aging your organs have done. So healthspan speaks to this idea of living a life that actually allows you to be healthier longer, so you live longer and live better as a result. So Dan's work is a pivotal part of MEA. We do four Blue Zones workshops a year for those blue zones, five places in the world. Dan studied that had the largest percentage of centenarians in the world. And he came up with nine reasons that were sort of common amongst those places. Things like exercising naturally, you know, you don't see in India, the guys who are 100 years old, you don't see them actually in a gym. They do natural exercise, partly because Sardinia has a lot of hills. And so they they exercise naturally. And so they get out and they walk and, and they do things in the garden and things like that. So that's one of those examples. Another one is plant based diet was interesting was common amongst the centenarians is that they didn't eat a lot of meat, they also only ate till they're about 80% full. So they didn't gorge themselves. In the United States, we tend to overeat because we have big portions. That's not true in the places in the world where there's the greatest number of centenarians, being part of a tribe, being part of a group of people that you feel very connected to, and you have a deep relationship with is also very important. I can keep going but strong actually drawn

Greg Voisen
strong spiritual sense as well with

Chip Conley
us. Yeah, yeah. Sounds Yeah.

Greg Voisen
But I'm glad that Buettner is connected with MBA because, you know, the work that he's done, correlates there. Now, obviously, going through midlife comes with our ability to embrace change was always got change going on, no matter but could you speak what you referred to as TQ, transitional IQ, and how it's gonna help our listeners see these changes as a new beginning and not resist the changes that they will, you know, when I say you can go through or grow through, right,

Chip Conley
I mean, like, I like that, Greg,

Greg Voisen
I think let's grow through it, but let's not go through it.

Chip Conley
That's beautiful. You know, my great both my grandfather's, you know, had one job, or one employer, their whole life, worked for an insurance insurance company and one worked for a bank. And for 40 years, those two men worked in exclusively one company. Back when I was born in 1960, the average person had three jobs in their career. Today, it's 12, or 13. So from a professional perspective, we have a lot more change in our life. The world is changing faster, as well, there's more divorced than, you know, back in the 1950s. There's, there's people living pathways of lives that are different than their parents what were so the bottom line is we are going through a lot of change. And so at mea one of the things we really help people with is navigating their midlife transitions. And so we believe that one of the most important skills you need to have in the modern world is an ability to navigate your transitions and master them. And so we coined the term transitional intelligence TQ to help people understand that TQ is a valuable skill that you need to learn in midlife and beyond anytime in your life. And especially in their life, because there's so many transitions we go through in midlife embrace everything from menopause, to for women, andropause for men, empty nest, parents passing away, going through your own health diagnosis that scary, changing careers changing where you live, etc.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, no, I think that this transitional IQ that you reference to is a big one. You know, we we've always we've all heard the emotional quotient part of it that's been around forever and ever. Now, you mentioned in the chapter this, this is an interesting chapter title. I have no more fucks left to give that you came out at 22 as a gay man, you've now realized that giving a fuck about less is particularly valuable in midlife, when we spent the first half of our life accumulating and how it is now it is time to edit meaning edit all the accumulations out. And you said it's about feeling comfortable with being different. What would you tell the listeners about not allowing all that garbage, to care to carry it with them and weigh them down and to live a life of purpose and meaning and fulfillment as they reach midlife? Because I think many of us pick up. You know, I call it a world of making stuff up making shit up MSU. And then we began to believe it and we spend half of our life unraveling what we were believing to try and live the life we really want to live.

Chip Conley
Yeah, so this chapter is dedicated to the idea that as we get older, we it's not that we don't care about things in life, but we're more discerning about what we can We're about Yes, I use the language of to give a fuck because Mark man's Manson's book, The subtle art of giving, right is the is sold 16 million copies. So it's clearly it resonates out there. And what I really want people to see those the following, yes to move beyond caring what other people think of you is one of the delights and freedoms of getting older. But not giving a damn about something doesn't mean you don't give a damn about anything, it just means you get more clear about what you give a damn about. And what you get more clear about who whose opinions you you care about. And so it's just a matter of discernment. And yes, I use the salacious title for that chapter about saying, you know, no more facts left to give. Because I think of there a lot of people with over 4000 people have come to mea, I've heard people say that over and over again, you know, and it's not because they're like giving up on caring what people think of them. It's more like they're getting more discerning about whose opinions matter. And who's doubt.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, and, and I think that, throughout life, if we're always living life for somebody else, we're not ever living our own life. Meaning we're not being true to ourselves. And I know that for you, you know, my brother was gay, and to actually come out, took so much courage back then, you know, I'm 70, he came out when he was 18. And he was older than me. So you can imagine, and he did get ostracized in the world. And on his deathbed, he said to me, or prior to that, he said, something to me that I'll never forget. And it was, and it's just a sign of the times, I wouldn't a wish the life that I lived on anybody. And what he meant by that is, he never got about what you're talking about right now. The whatever, people giving a fuck or whatever, he never got that he never manifested that. It was always about this challenge of finding a partner and living alone life and all the challenges and I felt bad for my brother, because, you know, you kind of go to your grave with that. And that's not a good thing. You need to let go of all of that. And, you know, you have a diagram in the book that you call Chips hero's journey. And this diagram is way cool, folks. And it's, it's, it's reminds me so much of the hero's journey guy, who am I thinking of? Because I'm gonna have Alan. Actually, Mark? Yeah, Mark, Mark Watts is coming on the show in a couple of weeks for the Tao of now. But I was, yeah, Joseph Campbell. And you mentioned that it states that with conduit at the top, and you mentioned that this that this phrase is when life is good. Can you briefly take our listeners and through you've got quite a few stages, but kind of the stages of, of Chips life because this brings me back to the Hudson Institute diagram, which literally these things kind of have some similarities.

Chip Conley
Yeah. So Joseph Campbell's work on the hero's journey spoke to really three pieces of the transitional journey. There's the default stage in which you're in, where things are sort of normal, and things are fine. But then you have a call to adventure, which takes you into the chrysalis stage into that, you know, the, the sort of the shadow stage think of Luke Skywalker, because George Lucas basically studied was of Campbell, and the Star Wars films were all about that. So the second stage is when you're actually going through a major transition, and then you come back into society, as a new person. So for my hero's journey, this is in a chapter in the book on knowing your story. I put together my own hero's journey starts at the top with conduit, when I feel most alive in my life. It's when things are coming through me, I'm channeling something, often when that's happening, that leads me to feeling like I'm living my calling. And I get very passionate about that. And when I get passionate about something, I end up sacrificing and the Passion of the Christ was, you know about sacrifice. And so I that's where I started going from the normal stage for me to the sacrifice takes me into the shadow part of this. And that's when I when I start sacrificing because I have a calling that I'm passionate about. I become a bit one dimensional, and I start running on a treadmill. And then all of a sudden, at the bottom of the circle I see that I have moved from a conduit to a candlelit hero, because I'm so proud Question about this calling and what I'm doing. And I'm putting so much of my effort and love and attention into it, that I become a hero. And I'm, I feel like I have to be the rugged individualist. And it's during those times when I quite frankly, there's a famous African proverb, which is, if you want to go fast, go alone, if you want to go far go together. That's when people need to remind me of that proverb, because I am a fast go alone kind of guy, which leads me to be in a place sometimes where I'm either spent or I'm invested. So if I'm spent means I now burnt myself out. But also when I'm doing something that feels like you're calling, I feel invested. But next, the next part of the circle gets me to resentment. And that's because people are not keeping up with me. And then I have to go into recovery. I don't mean a 12 step program, necessarily, but I do mean, like, I have to really see that I am in a place where I need to recover from this intensity I've been through. And then I go through renewal and a new form of curiosity, it takes me back up to the top content being a content. So that's really the that's the circle. And it's worked very well for me and I, and the book really gives people a way of actually creating and designing their own hero's journey.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, you know, it does. And I think, you know, when you talked about going out with somebody or going alone, I think many creatives that I've interviewed, I've done almost 1100 interviews now, a frequently they do have that issue of going it alone. I've experienced that. And it's not just the fact that you're an author, and that you're a thought leader in this particular area. It's the fact that you talked about as I got older, my mind has put more dots together. As Rita McGrath would say, you know, you actually are seeing into the future, you're saying this has a bad rap. This is not the way this should be mid mid age, is not with mid age crisis. It's with mid age renewal. And what you're trying to doing is bring renewal to people. And I love that I really do. You know, look in the time remaining, which I'll make this my last question to kind of wrap up. The book is filled with wisdom. As you being sage elder with the advice. What are three things that my listeners could take away from the book, and apply to their lives to help them through the midlife journey that they all might be on right now as they're listening to this so that they can have more fulfillment, more meaning more significance, more purpose? And say, hey, on my deathbed, I love the life that I lived. Yeah. Well,

Chip Conley
what I would say is, you're not alone. So this is not one of my three, but you're not alone. People going through midlife are often going through all kinds of transitions. And because especially men have a tendency to keep them to themselves and not talk about them. And they can sometimes feel like they're an idiot. And so you're not alone. Number one is understand that any transition has to be stages to it. There's the ending of something, there's the messy middle, and there's the beginning of something new. And once you understand that, that's sort of the cycle of a transition, you can understand a little bit more about which stage are you in highly recommend people go to the mea website, and go to the footer at the bottom of the website, and you'll see a bunch of free resources. There's a short ebook called The Anatomy of a transition that's

Greg Voisen
free. I got that one.

Chip Conley
Yeah, and it's, it really gives a visual depiction of how to understand the transition. Because if you can understand your transitions better, you're gonna live a better life. Secondly, one of the most important things to know in midlife and beyond is you got to become a beginner again. Now that's hard to believe because like, oh, wait, wait, I know, I'm, I'm experienced, and I don't want to try to become a beginner. Again, I don't want to have to learn Spanish, you know, in my late 50s, but I asked myself the question at age 57, when I moved to Mexico, as one of my two primary residences, ask the question 10 years from now, what will I regret if I don't learn it or do it now. And that's how I learned to start surfing at age 57. Because I lived on a beach in Mexico where the MBA campus is, and we have a great surf break thereby. And it's also when I learned how to to learn Spanish, I wanted to learn Spanish because learning Spanish or learning to surf at age 67 was gonna be harder than it would be at 57. So having that question, what 10 years from now, will I regret if I don't learn it? Or do it now allows you to come face to face with anticipated regret. And suspended regret is a form of wisdom and use that so that's the second piece of advice I'd give people. And the third one is invest in your social relationships. The number one variable for people who are living healthy, happy lives in their 80s and 90s is how invested were they in our social relationships in our 50s So find social wellness in your life, build connections with people more deeply. It's not about quantity. It's not being, you know, having a bunch of Facebook friends. It's about having face to face time with people and connecting and feeling like you have an insurance policy for a rainy day, an emotional insurance policy.

Greg Voisen
Well, the good thing is, you know, loneliness doesn't have to be, you need to reach out I know loneliness. They say, is it an epidemic? But the reality is go get a copy of this book. Learning to Love midlife. 12 reasons why if life gets better, at Chips website, his personal website, not the mea one. But just go to Chip Conley, c-o-n-l-e-y.com. There you'll see at the top, the books speaking the MBA, there's a link to mea there. So you can link to that and get that free download. We'll also put a link to that free download because that is a valuable document. It's a little mini kind of book that he's giving away for free. And we'll put a link to Amazon to this book as well. Chip, Namaste to you. Thank you for being on inside personal growth and spending some really great time with me and with our listeners to talk about your new book. We'll make sure that everybody gets these links and is connected in.

Chip Conley
Thank you, Greg. I always enjoyed being with you.

Greg Voisen
All right, you take care.