Greg Voisen
Welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. Well, Rachel, everybody out there knows me who's been listening to the show. But we have Rachel Rider on whom we're going to be talking about her new book, Who You Are Is How You Lead. It's a great little book. It's an easy read. And when I say that you don't have to be a rocket scientist to kind of go through this book. It's wonderfully done. It's very succinct. I'll tell my listeners. If you're in leadership, go out and get a copy of the book. It will certainly help you. Good day to you Rachel.

Rachel Rider
So good to be here, Greg. Thanks for having me.

Greg Voisen
It's good to have you here. And I'm gonna let the listeners know a tad bit about you. Because I always do that. I think it helps to set the context of who you are as an individual. And also the book that you've written. Rachel is a Columbia University certified executive coach. With over a decade of coaching and experience. She sets her practice apart by drawing from both traditional and alternative modalities, including Somatic Experiencing polarity therapy, Zen Buddhism, and a relationship focusing, and antiracism. Her aim is to see, hear and feel a client's needs with utmost clarity in order to bring about profound lasting and measurable results. She draws from firsthand in House leadership experience such as Bloomberg, HR business partner responsible for developing and coaching leaders and teams. And then in charge of leadership coaching at app Nexus, since acquired by AT and T, and Digital Ocean, the third largest hosting company in the world. She owns a company called MettaWorks. And for all of you who want to learn more about her services, her newsletter, the book, her team, I'd highly recommend going to meta ma TTA, wo RK s.io to go to meta works.io. Well, Rachel, pleasure having you on and it's definitely a pleasure speaking with you about your approach to leadership. You know, I've had everybody from Marshall Goldsmith on to Stephen Covey, Jr, to all kinds of people that speak about leadership. And, you know, in this world today, as we look at our political complexity, we look at how corporations have had so many challenging staying in an Integris. Inside this world, it really is a breakdown. And I'm hoping a breakthrough and leadership. And in your acknowledgments in your book, you write about all these teachers and mentors that came before you. And obviously, with a little different bent than the normal leadership kind of teacher, you stated that you face some of your own inner demons. I'm glad that you kind of realized that your sacred guides and the partners and the mentors, were giving you this support. How are they given you the inner strength to kind of change your own story to really kind of be who Rachel wanted to be in the world and to put yourself out that way? Because that's a big part of leadership.

Rachel Rider
Yes, Greg, I feel like we could spend our entire time on a great question and I will try not to monopolize the time with all the blessings I've received from my teachers and guidance. So I'll highlight a couple my first, I would call him my route teacher was John deitel. Lori has since passed, I guess it's been about 10 plus years. And now Shogun Roshi, Jeffrey shootin Arnold Roshi. I've been a Zen Buddhist practitioner since I was 13 years old. And really the gift that has been offered to me by that practice, is understanding my own mind. And that may be the busyness of it, some of the deeply held belief systems, the storylines within it aren't necessarily true, aren't always helpful. That has been such a profound and powerful teaching experience for me over my lifetime so that I can actually unravel the unhelpful beliefs that I've had in my life. I'm not good enough. I'm not lovable. I can't do it. It's too much. These are old belief systems. I had for a very long time that through my meditation practice has powerfully allowed that to shift. And once I started understanding my own mind, it really became about my body, that's when I inch by experienced somatic experiencing, you know, the mind is a powerful thing. And it is not the only thing. And so it's so important to understand the wisdom and also trauma that your body that your nervous system is holding. And so I found the teachers in somatic experiencing to be so powerful, and helping me unravel responses that I was having in the moment now that we're really about 1525 years ago, and how do I respond to the moment now with presence, I'm not reacting to you, because you remind me of my father or my brother, or, you know, a family member, I'm reacting to you right now, because of how you make me feel in this moment. So I would say those two pieces have been so profoundly important to me in my work, because what then I can do is hold and sit across from a leader and feel their true self instead of sometimes the self that's been presented that's keeping them stuck, and helping them find that for themselves,

Greg Voisen
When you can be with them, present with them. And I think that's the important thing, I tell this story. And you've probably you've maybe heard it, but I have a friend who, who is famous doctor who went to India like three times in search of enlightenment, then he goes all over and goes to see all the gurus and whatever. And he says, well, what do you think one guy, one of the Enlightened teachers said, What do you believe it is? What are you looking for? And he says, well, I don't know. But I hear that they all live here in India. And I've come here this many times, and this is a true story. And he said, no enlightenment, in my humble opinion, is unconditional acceptance of self. And with that, he went home. And he stopped looking for enlightened people and became enlightened himself as a result of unconditional acceptance of self. And I think, you know, when you really look at that, just those four words, it's so powerful, because we're frequently trying to be somebody else, or do something else or something for someone else. Because we're so afraid of finding out who we really are, you know, and I think that's what kind of repels us. And you write in the first chapter that you like to celebrate when a leader reaches their upper limits, because they are at a pivot point. Now this guy went to India, was it his upper limits? That's what he was looking for. It was looking for enlightenment. How do you help leaders and executives use those turning points, like dial, like Dr. Ullman had to move forward in a positive and inspiring way.

Rachel Rider
I get so excited when someone is that their upper limit because it means they're sick of it. It means there's, even though it's uncomfortable to change, it's even more uncomfortable to keep doing the same thing. That's when I know I'm going to have an opportunity to have profound help create profound change with this leader, because they are unwilling to continue with the status norm, the status quo that is such a powerful moment because change, look at like, I love those words that you used about, you know, complete self-acceptance, that is actually profoundly uncomfortable and difficult because we are unraveling the survival mechanisms, and even maybe lifetimes of conditioning that we feel has kept us safe. And so we're really becoming pioneers traveling into who we are and who do we really want to honor within ourselves. And so we need to be ready to be brave on a different level. And so reaching that upper limit means we are sick of what we've been doing. We cannot go forward and so for me, that means okay, the ground is fertile, the time is ripe. Let's get let's get curious. And so for me, that's the most exciting moment for a leader because they are ready to try something different. They're ready to challenge their belief systems. They're ready to get curious about everyone like everything they do and become a spelunker in their own inner world with you know, only a flashlight and a you know, a Rachel to guide them.

Greg Voisen
Well, you know that transformation that you speak about a transition transformation Whatever we would like to call it, there's so many opportunities in our lifetime for them. Based upon based upon events, now you call upper limits, there's a lot of things that could take somebody to that pivot point to that upper limit. They're fed up with something, they're, they're being pressurized by someone or something, all these various things that happen to you, that get you to the point, there was an old movie that said, I'm mad as hell, and I can't take it anymore. Right. And I and I think, you know, whether it's anger that you're experiencing, or sadness that you're experiencing as a result of it, or depression, that happens as a result of it, there is a way through, that's what I want to tell people. And the way through is working with a coach like you, and somebody that has experience. And you speak that when you have a healthy relationship that's going on inside of you that you have much larger capacity for the demands of your professional role. And that's so true. That's what you're helping people have a large capacity for these demands, you know, how to meet them with peace and presence, and, and calmness versus, you know, anger and frustration and whatever. And I noticed there are times even with me, you know, I get to this point where, you know, I just don't want to hear it anymore from somebody else, right? Can you speak with the listeners about the pillars of metalworks method, and how it helps them find the harmony and peace that they really need to be a better person? And I think, you know, you talked about the body a minute ago, the somatic breathing and those somatic work. It's so important, that mind, body and spirit be connected here, this is not an intellectual process, all of this is a matter of fact, it's probably more the President's from the spiritual side, and you making that connection to helping you find your way, so to speak with us and trying to help find that peace so we can have this greater capacity.

Rachel Rider
I so appreciate what you've just said, because it's so true, then that's really the basis of my work. I think that's what makes metalworks different in this industry is the mind body spirit, the presumption that all three are needed for powerful change for deep happiness in your professional success. And so the metal works method is really, I'd like to say it's a roadmap to your inner world, it's a way for you to start to explore it, start to understand it, start to shift it. And so really, I won't go through every single pillar, if there are a few, check out the book. But a couple are more than a couple. Yep, thank you so much. First, we need to cultivate awareness, we need to understand what is actually going on within us. When we're engaging with people, when we're getting cranky about something. It's not always about the external world, our crankiness is in response to it because of something. So let's cultivate awareness that we need to have some compassionate accountability, we need to understand, you know, what I'm doing is not helpful anymore. And it's important to also be kind to myself, as a result, what I'm doing has been created over many, many, many, many years. And so it's, I've been training myself very well, I have to be kind and loving. And also, that does not mean I make excuses. It's also important to understand what's really important to us, so that when things get really hard, we come back to the why. Why does this matter to me? Why do I want to change? Why am I working my professional world, also in the pillars is understanding our survival mechanisms. These are the habitual behaviors we have done over and over again, that have actually often made us very successful, and are also really getting in the way now, the survival mechanisms are usually why we're Upper Limiting. They have been keeping a small keeping us back. And so then we talk about how do you turn those survival mechanisms into your superpowers? Because there's such an abundance of wisdom in the survival mechanisms. We want to carry that forward. We don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and we want to shift it so that you're actually being in your, your most powerful self. Once. Yeah, go ahead.

Greg Voisen
Well, no, that's a really good summary of I mean, it gives people a concept of what you're teaching, you know, when I went to get my degree in spirits Psychology. Remember when they made bumper stickers for all of us? And it said, you don't have to believe everything you think. And the reality is, is, you know, we have these set of beliefs that we've been carrying around. Now I call those beliefs as they can change, right, they definitely can change, you say, well, I have a belief about something. There, there used to be a thought, from a spiritual side, when you have a knowing or a truth, that that doesn't change. It's something that's inherent inside of you. And when you recognize those, it becomes very valuable. And I think what you're helping people find is their truth. And in your case, we'll get to it, you call it the North Star. I mean, it's commonly referred to, but um, you know, you talked about in the book, and I could feel your pain as you're writing this in the book, you are personally responsible for terminating over 60 people from one department and accompany that experience inspired you to start your own business as an executive coach. And I think mainly because of the way it was not the way you handled it. But the way you became a pawn in the play to handle it. At least that's what it sounded like. What was it about the experience that galvanized your thoughts about becoming the best executive coach? You could? And how does your training in the somatic breathwork polarity therapy, and your strong Zen Buddhism practice influence how you show up as a coach?

Rachel Rider
It's funny these days, 60 people feel small compared to the 10s of 1000s, Google and Facebook, I've been laying off. And so when I this was about, Gosh, 1520 years ago,

Greg Voisen
we realize you were the one that did it, exactly. I sat in the room, you delivered the notice, I always remember that movie, when the guy said he was fired, I forget her up in the air, whatever it is, you know, I have owned my own business. And certainly, I've come to mutual agreements with people about letting them go. Because they were smaller businesses, they didn't even have 60 employees. And it's so much easier when you can come to a mutual agreement, that it's in their best interest in our best interest to do that. But when somebody isn't expecting it, right, and you walk into an office, and they kind of probably not, something's happening, because the person from hrs showing up to speak with them. I think it sends tremors through their bodies.

Rachel Rider
Without a doubt, and I can tell you, what would happen is we would call the person at their desk. And when this is happening over and over again, and no one's coming back, people start at their desks, getting anxious about the phone call, because we would say please come in. I mean, just the visceral experience. Yeah, you know, and I think that was the first time I really encountered that connection. I mean, I always knew it, but really being in this pressure cooker of being complicit in destabilizing the nervous system. And how that impacts people. I think I really, it was the first time that mind body connection was so deeply drought driven home for me, that I really had to examine and look at, how did I want to navigate this in a way that I felt like I had some autonomy, and I felt like I could disrupt the karma I was creating. Because it was I was creating karma, these people had been in these roles for 10 to 1520 years. And it wasn't necessarily as a result of bad behavior.

Greg Voisen
wasn't if I'm not mistaken, you know, and you can tell me if I'm wrong, but this really wasn't your job. Well, it was at who is responsible in the company for really doing that. It's, I mean, not that it ended up coming down to you, right? But when you really think about it, a lot of times leaders I wouldn't call them good leaders, but they're gonna pass it off to somebody else to do because they don't want to have the job to do it. So they gave it to you.

Rachel Rider
Yeah, and actually, this this scenario, you do remember, well, from the book, this scenario was particularly fraught because the executive I was partnering with was MI, yeah, so even before the meeting, where the executive should have been responsible for identifying the people being terminated. Did that also fell on me, which was seriously concerning to me. And so I do feel like it was, you know, it's funny gifts come in the most strange places, I think it was the biggest gift that could have been given to me because it helped fast track me to decide this is not for me, because I was the highly regarded in this role. I was on, you know, the promotional ladder. And it was very clear to me that this was not the way I wanted to live my life. And then

Greg Voisen
afterwards, you were thought by many people in that company as Mrs. Pardon me, God do. Oh, my goodness. You know, here's the lady that has the x, right?

Rachel Rider
Yes. Right. And so this is what's so what's so interesting is for upper management, and the executive team is very highly regarded, because I navigated a very messy situation successfully. And so that was even more particularly upsetting to me. And so I really appreciate what you said in your question about, you know, what is it about Zen Buddhism, somatic experiencing energy work, that really informs the work I do, and I, I so and this was kind of the first start of that journey, for me is just the power of the mind body spirit work, you cannot work on one without working on another if you want sustained change in your life. And that's one of the things that I've really understood and working with my clientele is that it's never just the intellectual, it's never just the body. It's never just the divine in your relationship to the divine. And that's, I think we're at the heart of the work as

Greg Voisen
Well, you certainly were somebody who disrupted a lot of people's lives. And then the other hand, the way you have to kind of reconcile that is that maybe that was good for them. And it was good for the company. I mean, there is always a way to kind of try and justify it, I understand that it's a huge disruption for everybody, for you, for them for the company, even because, you know, the company's letting people go that they depended on these spots, but because of financial reasons, they said, Well, we're gonna let these people go. And it seems to be that that is frequently the case in many of these cases. And you tell a story about a CEO named it, make sure I get it right, why your 10 day because I actually went to the internet and said for me, but I forgot what they told me like, I'm happy. That was being told by the board of directors to do something that was not alignment with her values and her North Star. Can you tell the listeners his story and how she came to a compromise with the board to resolve the demand that was being put on her? You know, it's you're kind of between a rock and a hard spot, as they say with that, also common if you would about the power associated with knowing your values and knowing your NorthStar.

Rachel Rider
This story always moves me so deeply even when I read the story, I get moved, and I was a part of it. You today is a wonderful example of a CEO who is really meaning driven, she came here to the United States from Africa. And, and really benefited from her exposure to learning code, and creating a beautiful life for herself as a result. And so it was really important to her when she founded her own company that that is what the mission of the company would be to make code accessible to all to create an avenue of financial stability for folks who needed it. And so when the board so she was doing beautifully the company was exploding and the board said hey, we need some senior leaders who know what they're doing. This is not working, just promoting internally, you got a scrappy team, they're great, but they're not ready for this next level. And the attendant was deeply disturbed by this, you know, went against the pieces that were most important to her which was elevating from within creating an organization based on her mission. And it was it became an intractable conversation between her and her and the board and we know that that it's never pretty. We've seen see I was being burned consistently because of intractable situations with the board and so she brought it to our coaching and to AI, it's just the most beautiful story of how powerful knowing what matters to you is, because when you know, the most important thing to you, you can problem solve as a result. And through our conversations of okay, what is the most important thing, the most important thing was to keep her company alive, and to honor her mission of making sure advancement was possible for folks who deserved it. And so once she was clear in that she had, it's like, when you have ingredients, you can create the meal, when you know what ingredients you have. And she came back next session, she's like, I got it, Rachel, I got it. She was like, this is what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna say yes to the board, I'm gonna say yes to the board for two executive positions, as long as they guarantee support in funding a program of internal executive function, so that we have certain roles that will always be internally promoted. And it was such a beautiful, and she was glowing. And the board was so excited when she pitched it to them, because everybody won, the company looked great, the employees felt good, the board got what they wanted. It was like, and the board felt heard, it was just the most beautiful example of when, you know, what's the most important thing to you, you know how to move forward. You know, it

Greg Voisen
comes to something that I remember, you've probably read the book, you know, power versus force, you know, and it's interesting, you know, when someone attempts to force something on you, which in this case was what was kind of happening, you said it was nonnegotiable, but that she used her power, yes, and her position to go back and negotiate, which was something that was nonnegotiable and turn into something, which is triple win. The bottom line is everybody won in the process. And I and I love this story, because it certainly exemplifies what you do as a coach, what you do at metalworks, how you help people see that, right? Because sometimes they get mad, and then they don't see it, you can't get angry and not see it, what you have to really do is see through it as to what really that ultimate thing is going to be for the board, in this case for the board. And you speak about us cultivating awareness. And that's probably the big one, you know, is awareness. And you mentioned that there are unseen influences that play behind the scenes of all of our interactions until we learn to pay attention, starting with self-awareness that those unseen forces are in the driver's seat. You tell a story about Sooni, a chief marketing officer that no one wanted to work with to accentuate your point, can you tell the story and how we can be more intentional and aware of our actions and our attitudes that could be driving people from wanting to interact with us, because in this guy's case, now, the story again, Gao, Gao sorry. She, no one wanted to be around her. She was driving people away. And I know even personally, from my experience, when you have the pressures of, you know, a business in your like, in my case of entrepreneur who's had businesses and employees, I know there are many times where I was listening, reading your story going. There were probably a lot of times in my life when people were like, well, don't get near him. He's just, he's explosive. He isn't going to be the person that you think he is. So what would you what would you tell people about this? I mean, this is a pretty common problem. This is something that anybody listening can't relate to.

Rachel Rider
Exactly. And I have to say, Sooni, one of my poster children of change, she's really, I love her very much. We still work together. And we've been working together for years, because there have been many iterations in her company, where she's wanting continued support, but when she and Rebecca was her CO is her co-founder, they're best friends. And for a very long time, they really worked well together the company, kind of, you know, Sunni, got stuff done. And Rebecca was the visionary and so people were work around Sunni because she was very difficult but really drove things home and just came to Rebecca. But the company became an a critical point where it was growing so quickly got so successful working around Sunni became incredibly disruptive. Rebecca couldn't handle all of that direct reports those demands. And so Rebecca nominated Sunni and said, Listen, Sunni, we you got people have to want to talk to you. The feedback was pretty serious, you know, in the feedback reports, and so when Sunni started working with me, one of the things that was clear is, she was confused why people were so avoidant of her because she felt like she was really proud of the company, she was really happy to work with these folks. She just had a very high standard that was kind of her, I just have a high bar, I just have a high bar. And so what was interesting about that, is that it was never good enough. And that's the fundamental question of balance as a leader is like, how do you have a high bar and celebrate your people? And so one of these dynamics, that's so I feel like obvious in the leadership world is giving a compliment and then saying, but

Greg Voisen
What was her nationality? If you don't mind asking? I'm Indian? Right? And you will find in that history that nothing is ever good enough. If you talk to a lot of Indian people who've become programmers or whatever, engineers, designers, whatever, you'll find that in ancestral lines just as the way it's done, they've always wanted their kids to be better, better, better, better, better, better. Right. And, and those patterns, you know, you talk about that? I think that's a great question. It's kind of pattern identification, how you break those patterns. And these are behavioral patterns that are hard to disrupt. You know, and those aren't patterns that are serving her, although they think they're serving her.

Rachel Rider
Well, and that's the thing. Yeah, I don't want to make presumptions about her culture, because it's interesting that never came up in our conversation. In terms of, you know, it never came up that that, that she felt like it was informed by her culture, which was interesting. But that's an interesting observation. And what I what I think what you're saying about the pattern disruption, and that's in a later chapter in my book is, it's so profoundly important that first you need to understand the pattern. And Sewanee was getting a real wake up call. This is not this pattern is not working, right, and one of the low hanging fruit that we started with, and I really want to drive home the point that it's not the language. So yes, she needed to change her language from but to and, but the real fundamental piece is she needed to change her energy. One of the things that we worked on with Sunni was her energy was like, not good enough. So even when she was complimenting someone, it wasn't rah, rah, it was like, Yeah, okay, that was really great, great deck, great pitch. So this is what we really need to do. Even without the but no one hears the first part of your sentence. And so one of the things that I think is so important when you're trying to cultivate awareness, is to think about what is it you actually want the other person to feel?

Greg Voisen
Yeah, it's kind of honest, communication, honest, compliments, as I kind of say, you know, I might nonprofits called compassionate communications. How do we compassionately communicate to somebody that they really know they've done a good job? versus kind of just brushing over it? Right? In our case, it would be okay, great, you did what you were told you're going to do? Thanks a lot kind of thing. And the person on the other end is like, when I worked my ass off to get you know, there is not much recognition here. And that is a challenge with inside most corporations is recognition coming from upper management coming from colleagues coming from all over. And I'm not saying that we, you know, we have a kumbaya party every time. But what I am saying is that from the people, it means the most from you are looking for recognition, you're looking for some compliment and looking for something. Now, if you can find it with inside yourself as you grow. That's another thing, but because I don't think we should. Pardon me, it's, it sounds contradictory, but ever rely on anybody else or be dependent on anybody else for our happiness. We have to be totally 100% responsible on ourselves. And I think that brings me to this next question that we all have survival mechanisms, even if there's subconscious, and I want don't want to get this Rinpoche his name wrong. It's tos. Nope, me.

Rachel Rider
Me, okay. Teacher, he's just wonderful.

Greg Voisen
And I've interviewed a bunch of Rinpoche is and I've always had to go and figure out and make sure I'm pronouncing it right. Yeah, but it talks about being with your beautiful monsters. With the non-judgmental, compassionate embodied awareness allow these beautiful monsters to pin and transform naturally. Right? So in other words being with them these, these monsters that he's talking about, how do you have leaders become aware of the beautiful monsters and really what they're teaching? So they can transmute the beliefs that are not serving and moving them forward? Well, this was Sunnis case. Yes. Beautiful monsters associated with what she was thinking.

Rachel Rider
Yeah. And so let's cook. We can continue that thread in this example. And so I think one of her beautiful monsters was more better, more better. And like that front, let's be very honest. It's what made the company skyrocket. They're doing stunningly, they're an industry leader. And so the piece here is a couple of one is really celebrating, what has it, what has it done for her? Because there's no way we want to let go of what it's done for her. It has helped them grow with the company, it has helped her standard trajectory. She was responsible in the beginning years of hiring good people, she has impeccable taste in her employee hires. And so it is a really beautiful, honing device for her. The question is, when is it getting in the way. And so that's the piece where she when she wants someone to feel good about their work, and she's not doing it, it's getting in the way, you know, one of the things I really appreciate what you said is, We it's important for people to feel recognized. And because not just listen, it's nice to feel seen and heard. I respect that. And as a leader, we want them. We want folks to know what they should do more of continue doing this, do it again and again. And that's the only way people can know that as if they're recognized. And Sony wanted that soon, he wanted people to be more successful. And so we had to help her understand how to read the face in the room, because the other thing that's you knew was responsible for was closing deals. Shocking. She was really good at closing deals. Yes, exactly. But not managing her employees. And so one of the things we were able to help her with is to bring that just stunning ability to close the deal to her employees.

Greg Voisen
Well, you know, I can relate to Sunni because I was the CEO of my company that was responsive to be the Rainmaker. Well, I did get agitated with employees, I was probably the best closer. Now why is that? It's primarily because of our attention to detail. Right? So when a customer on the other end or prospect on the other end, sees that you care, and you're listening to every one of their needs, you become their advocate to solve a problem, whatever the case was maybe big problems, right? Which is why she was in my estimation, I don't even know her. But I do know the type. And I know that if I was to type that person, and I would say, Okay, could this person be a good marketing salesperson? Probably more of a better salesperson than a marketing person? Right? Because they are the ones that can answer the questions for the clients and do it with where the client believes what they're saying, because they're very believable. They know their stuff. Okay, let's put it that way. And I'm sure Sunni knows her stuff. Oh, for sure. Your book, I want to throw on my listeners, who you are is how you lead. We've certainly talked about who you are. And as a final question here, you know, I just want to compliment you on a beautifully written book, with a lot of great wisdom and advice. Easy to read, for my listeners, not a tough read. You could probably read this on a long plane flight. What do you what are three actionable ideas that you'd want to leave the listeners with about the treasure trove of our inner world and that the more we are aware of the beautiful monsters that lurk in there that we don't know about frequently because their subconscious we're not aware of them that we can transform them or live with them in harmony. For a to become a better person and a better leader.

Rachel Rider
The first thing I would say As they have so much wisdom, start talking to them start understand part start personifying them. What shape do they take? What do they look like? I have a client who has little Gremlins, as his beautiful monsters. One of my beautiful monsters is a fire breathing Green Dragon. See them feel their personality? And then start checking in with them? What is your wisdom here? What are you frustrated about? And then you as the human being, decide, what do I want to do with that? What's important to me to start to cultivate in a relationship with your beautiful monsters is so important, and then to feel warm? And kindly to them? And also, finally, no, they are not you? They are part of you. I think that's the beginning.

Greg Voisen
I think recognizing that they're part of you, is important. And would you say that we can cohabitate with them successfully? Because they're not there to do? You know, it's like people weave in all the traditions, Buddhist traditions, you know, obviously, there's lots of discussions with the ego. Well, one of the things you're probably never going to get rid of is your ego.

Rachel Rider
No, and it takes care of you.

Greg Voisen
That's right. That's right. But you know, for the longest time, people will talk in books and personal growth books, oh, you got to, like, you certainly need to learn how to be at peace with the ego and understand it, and learn more about it. But it is part of what makes you who you are, right. And I think that's the same thing with these beautiful monsters, whatever they might be, we people could probably sit here and identify a lot of them. Right. And I think we have peace with them, speak to them. I love that. That's, you know, talk to them and see what they have to say. That's almost like do a gestalt therapy with your, with your beautiful monster. Do it exactly what I'm talking about. You move from one chair to another chair, back again and do that Gestalt therapy because believe it or not, it does work because it actually moves the body. And you feel like you're, you know, we're talking about mind, body spirit, the body kind of needs to and when I when she's saying talk to it, actually, for all those you who are listening who don't know what it is, because talk therapy is basically you taking the role of the beautiful monster in another chair. So basically let it talk, then you go back to being you and you talked it and ask it a question and go back and forth. And you'd be surprised what actually emerges as a result of doing something like that. Even if it's only for five minutes. It's you know, try it, you can't hurt powerful, very powerful. Well, you've written a very powerful book, and also a book that's very engaging, and I think that could take people to new heights in their leadership. Again, I want to remind my listeners, you're gonna go to meta works.io. That's where you're going to learn more about Rachel and her team and her company and what they do and the book and it's been an honor and a pleasure having you on inside personal growth today. Just speak about your new book. Namaste to you. Thank you for thank you for being on and thanks for being such a great guest.

Rachel Rider
Thank you, Greg. Such a pleasure.