Greg Voisen
Welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. This is Greg Voisen, the host of Inside Personal Growth. And I have Dr. Judith Orloff. Joining me from Venice, California, right near Santa Monica in Los Angeles. Good day to you, Judith, how are you doing?

Dr. Judith Orloff
Hello, I'm doing great. I'm excited to be on your show.

Greg Voisen
Well, it's good to have you on, Dr. Orloff. And can you hold up a copy of the book please. The Genius of Empathy, which is the book we're going to be speaking about practical skills to heal sensitive self and relationships. You're also the author of The Empath's Survival Guide and many other books. She is a prolific author. So I encourage all my listeners to go out and get a copy of this. We'll put a link to Amazon as well so that they can get the book from there. But Dr. Orloff, I'm going to tell him a bit about you for those who might not know who you are, which I think might not be very many people because you've been around this for a long time. She's an MD, and is the New York Times bestselling author of the genius of empathy, the empath Survival Guide, thriving on and thriving as an empath and emotional freedom. She is a psychiatrist and Empath, intuitive healer, and is on the UCLA psychiatric clinical faculty. She synthesizes the pearls of traditional medicine with cutting edge knowledge of intuition, energy, and spirituality and passionately believes in the power of integrating this wisdom for total wellness. She has been called the godmother of the impact movement. She specializes in treating and treating empaths and highly sensitive people in her private practice. Dr. Loss work has been featured in the Today Show CNN, Oprah Magazine, New York Times, USA Today. She's spoken as the American Psychiatric Association Fortune Magazine's Most Powerful Women's Summit, Google TEDx us and TEDx gateway Asia. The New England Journal of Medicine, writes, Dr. Judith Orloff, advises physicians on improving their intuitive powers. Her simple but powerful messages, listen to your patients. Well, that's a good intro, I'm going to introduce you to a gentleman by the name of Dr. Steve Bierman, who's working with Andrew Weil, and he is not only an empath, but he believes in doctors listening to their patients’ big time, and his book is called Healing beyond pills and potions. But I wanted you to tell our listeners a bit about your background, and your work as an empath. Also, what have you learned from the patients? Not so much from anywhere else, but the patients? And how can our listeners express empathy to heal themselves and others?

Dr. Judith Orloff
Okay, those are the three big questions. But in terms of my background, I'll give you this the short story, I was brought up in Beverly Hills, I was a little girl who was empathic, and intuitive. And I would since energy, and so I would go into shopping malls in crowded places and walk out depressed, anxious, or in some physical state I wasn't in before and I didn't realize that I was an empath, as a child. And my parents who are both physicians said, never mentioned another one of your experiences again, they're too weird. You have to toughen up. And so I grew up believing there was something wrong with me, you know, with these empathic abilities, and my journey has been becoming a psychiatrist and going through 14 years of medical school, and integrating my empathy and my intuition in patient care. And in my life, as a woman and everything I do, I integrate the linear mind, and I listen to the heart and the genius of empathy. And so I just want to say to everybody, it's not either or, you can be all of these different things at various periods of time, you just have to learn how to become discerning about when to use what type of knowledge and perception that you have available to you.

Greg Voisen
Well, I love what the Dalai Lama said in the foreword to your book, you know, he gives you the accolades that this being one of the better books on compassion and empathy. And I for all my listeners, I'm a big fan of the Dalai Lama's, but to actually have a foreword written by the Dalai Lama, that's really something so I want to acknowledge you on that. You know, you mentioned that the book fossa does focuses on three main powers of empathy, showing it to ourselves I was showing it to others, and showing it to the greater world that the book is for everyone interested in self healing and and communicating more effectively in relationships? How can our listeners better experience and deeply understand the effectiveness of empathy? I think, look, so many of us think we're empathetic. And maybe not as much, maybe we're more sympathetic. There's a big difference between being sympathetic and empathetic. So I'd love for you to speak with us about that, because the listeners would love to actually understand this. And I'm gonna say, practice it more.

Dr. Judith Orloff
Yeah, good, good. That's the whole point of the book is to practice it more. But I'm impressed in the genius of empathy, I'm presenting empathy as a healing force that you can activate in your own body, and that you can share in your relationships and with the world. So there are different levels of activating empathy. And I'm presenting it as a healing force, which isn't usually done. But the way to activate empathy in yourself is to know what is linear, and what problems need to be addressed in a linear way, and what problems need to be addressed from your heart or with your empathy. And there are many different kinds of empathy. There is cognitive empathy, which is empathy that you feel with your mind, there's emotional empathy, where I feel you, I feel your pain, I feel your joy. There's spiritual empathy, where you could connect to somebody on a spiritual level, and intuitive empathy. Where you can just some people are just their default is to tune in with intuition and to get all kinds of information about other people through their ability to connect. Now, empathy is the ability to feel what's going on in other people, and actually become them for a moment. But then to withdraw, you don't want to stay there, you don't want to become a mesh with people, you just you can feel it's a cheap form of intimacy, as opposed to sympathy, which is more I feel for you. Now, I'm sorry, this happened to you. And it's more of a distant response. Empathy is more of an attunement. It's like an instrument. Before, it's like I feel you, I feel you right now.

Greg Voisen
Well, I question for you about intuition. You know, I actually wrote a book on intuition. I did a lot of research about it. And I recognized how we pick up and feel and become more empathetic. The question is the discernment or really knowing is it true, right? How would you address that to somebody who's actually just kind of get it? No, they didn't grow up as a child getting all these weird vibes there. They're just now kind of moving toward someplace where they can feel more empathy for others. What is it that you believe they got rid of to get there? And what is it that they have to cultivate more of, to make that power even more powerful, and trust in it?

Dr. Judith Orloff
Well, I just want to say, tuning into intuition and empathy are two of the most beautiful things you're ever going to do in your life, their quality and human nature that we need to develop in order to evolve. And so how do you know if an intuition is accurate? If it's accurate, it's usually either neutral, or compassionate. The information comes through just simply this information, might, it might seem like you're watching a movie, or you're having a dream, or you're observing something, that neutrality, or that sense of compassion says to me, the intuition is accurate. Whereas when people get emotionally triggered and have all kinds of opinions coming in, and all kinds of ideas about something that's more thought, intuition comes through, almost in an impersonal way. And that's kind of counterintuitive, right? But when I get intuitions about, I don't think it's a good idea to walk down that side of the street. It's neutral. It's not panic. It's like, okay, I hear that. So it's about opening up to your inner voice, and the quality if it's very emotionally charged, I'm suspect. I think it's my issues that are getting involved and maybe I'm projecting my issues on another person, which of course I don't want to do as a psychiatrist or just any sign I'm reading somebody which isn't all the time and I don't intrude on other people, you know, people used to think that I could read everything about them. And I was interested in doing so, you know, which is so far from the truth. I mean, it's me, I want to do that I want to have no free time I did that.

Greg Voisen
I did that in workshops, you didn't say you're a medium, bringing people from the other world, although you are bringing a sense from another world and yourself. And you know, you stated, and this is so true, everybody knows this, that we're living in wild, sacred times with polarization division, addictions, scarcity, all of these emotions, these just emotions that kind of run wild with a lot of people, you state, you wrote the book to give people hope. And the key to survive in these times. It really is empathy. That's what you're saying survival is being more empathetic? How would the listeners choose empathy, over the more destructive emotions, which a lot of them are feeling as a result of polarization division, addiction scarcity, which would be fear, and anger, and all of the other negative emotions that come along with that?

Dr. Judith Orloff
Yeah, good question. There's still many things that happen to us in life, it goes up and down, and up and down, and all the wars and know all the polarizations and the hatred and everything, all those energies that are going on. But you have to choose empathy. It's a choice. It's not something that you have to do that if you choose empathy, if you choose being a heart centered person and doing the best you can to bring that into the world. Those are the highest values. And the Dalai Lama, as you said, emphasize that more and more, I mean, that's his deep belief. Yeah, those are the most important things you have to know about your values. Now, clearly, what we're doing in this world isn't working. All right. And I think everyone could agree with that. And so we need another way. And I start the genius of empathy with a book but with a quote from Rumi, translated by Coleman Barks, and is out beyond any ideas of wrongdoing and right doing, there is a field, I will meet you there. I'm trying to create with this book is the field, you know, it's not a right or wrong, you know, you could be right, you could be right, doesn't matter, we have to go to another field. Otherwise, it's not going to work. Because the way we we've done it so far, in our personal relationships, and in the world, and with coworkers. No, I go into sections of the book, how do you deal with a co worker, you might not even like, why would you want to find out that they're with them? Why would you want to have empathy and an argument? Why would

Greg Voisen
I think it's, we're in times right now, where it's a big shift in consciousness, that we're elevating ourselves to greater levels of awareness. As it relates to I'm gonna say spirituality. In other words, our spiritual illness, our soul, what is our soul calling, and you did speak in the book about empathy and compassion. And Dalai Lama talks a lot about compassion. And I have a foundation called compassionate communications, which is where I take care of the homeless, and people coming out of Ukraine going into Poland. And the reality is, is that the differences are you say, are ever so subtle? So, Dr. Orloff, you know, you speak about the differences between empathy and compassion, and that the difference is ever so subtle. Could you speak with us about the differences and about tapping the wisdom, both of our heart and our mind, and manifesting, grading, greater healing for ourselves and others?

Dr. Judith Orloff
Yes, well, the reason I'm so enamored with empathy is that it's a powerful healing force. And it's been shown that if you witness an act of empathy, if your blood was measured, as it's been done in research studies, your immunity would go up, your stress hormones would go down, and all kinds of positive things are happening in your body simply by witnessing the goodness of empathy. All right, I'd like you to do a meditation on that. That's a huge, huge realization. And then the difference between compassion and empathy. It's come up lately, it's been a topic that people like to discuss. Empathy is when you attune to someone and feel everything they're feeling. And you become one with them temporarily. Compassion is a bit more distanced, it's a bit more loving detachment is a step away, I want to help somebody I wanted to do good for somebody. It's not so much the attunement, but it is the doing good impulse. So interesting. And the Dalai Lama forward, he uses both words, but doesn't did. He doesn't

Greg Voisen
know he didn't distinguish. But he does. He did use both words in the introduction, or I should say, foreword to your book. So but but it is, I know, when he's speaking about compassion. It's like my work with the homeless is more compassion, because I have to go out on the streets with gift cards and blankets and all kinds of things. And that's compassion. You're not always having time to sit and be super empathetic with all the people you're trying to serve. So I get where he's coming from. With that with that difference. Now, there's Chapo chapter titled igniting the healing power of empathy, how to stop overthinking and come from your heart. Can you mention and just kind of mentioned because I know it can take a long time to go through all of them, the nine strategies to combat overthinking and the benefits of doing so.

Dr. Judith Orloff
Well, as those of you know, who wake up at three in the morning, with your mind going a mile a minute, you know, the pain and the torment of overthinking overthinking doesn't serve you all right, and there comes a time when you've thought about something enough. And so you need just to shift gears and come from your heart instead of thinking you're coming from your heart to treat yourself in a nicer way about solving whatever problem that you're ruminating about, and to find a different solution, the one that comes from the heart. All right, and so to stop overthinking, the first thing you have to do is to take a breath and shift from the mind to the heart is the breath transfers you from the mind to the heart. And instead of holding your breath and being tense to breathe, to come back into your body and out of your head. You don't want to be a disembodied head walking around all the time, like a lot of people are they just stay living from the neck up. And that's not healthy for the body so to to quiet the mind. You want to give it soothing images you want to give it soothing physical input, you might want to take a bath or a shower Hour, or take a walk, give yourself a break from the topic. So you can pause. And you could begin to look at the greater universe, your but a speck of the greater universe and you're given this amazing moment of life to live. And it's your power to shift out of the mind and into the heart. And perhaps get more physical at that moment, if you can, or do yoga, or look up at the moon and the stars and see, there's a magnificent on wonder universe all around you. So that helps to loosen up the grip you have on the torture chamber of the mind. And it helps to come to another place to give you a rest. And to give you another perspective,

Greg Voisen
as the Buddhists say that monkey mind that just keeps going on and on. Well, you know, being a physician and MD, you have a lot of background and many of these things. And I one of the parts of the book that I think for the people that might be a little bit more skeptical would be good is the neuroscience of empathy. Especially this, this minor this neuron system that chemical messengers, such as just I'm gonna mention to dopamine and serotonin, which make us feel good. Can you talk about these as it relates to our behavioral changes and how the neuroscience of the brain is actually working when we're being more empathetic? Because there's so many studies out there that say, Hey, being empathetic raises levels of oxytocin. So it raises levels of, you know, all of these great chemicals that are being being released in our body. But also, the runner's high does the same thing. Right? So what would you want to tell our listeners about this?

Dr. Judith Orloff
Bottom line is empathy is good for your health, as as long as you learn how to set boundaries, and we can talk about that, it being empathic, is not being 100%, empathic with everyone you meet all the time. And it's not being on call for your friends all the time, every time they have a problem. All right, it's learning how to set boundaries when you're tired, and you don't have much to give, and learning how to replenish yourself. So if you know how to set boundaries, empathy can be very, very good for your health. And there's so many benefits. There's the immune response I talked about earlier, where simply by viewing empathy, or participating in empathy, I feel empathic with you at this moment, that begins to set the oxytocin going in your body, the love hormone, the bonding hormone that lets me bond with you. And it allows the mirror neurons which are the compassion neurons in the brain to start firing, so that you can feel more compassion for others and for yourself, which is equally as important. And you could get dopamine flowing in your system, which is the pleasure hormone of there's so many beautiful ways that your biochemistry in response to empathy, you want to activate the vagus nerve, which is the nerve that quiets you down as opposed to the sympathetic nervous system, which is the fight or flight, nervous system that gets you all wired up and squeezes your blood vessels and makes your blood pressure go up, and your heart rate go up the parasympathetic nervous system, which is mediated by the vagus nerve, the longest nerve in the body, helps you to quiet down and have empathy, and feel good about yourself and take a break, and you learn how to harness the biology of your system. And that's what I'm getting across in this chapter on the neuroscience of empathy is that it's not just something to learn as a theoretical construct, but it's something that you can practice shifting in your body with. You could bring about all these good things. I

Greg Voisen
recognize that we're speaking about being empathetic. And we have talked a little bit about being empathetic or self self empathy. But you've kind of stated that igniting soft empathy is having an open heart, coming from a place of forgiveness, kindness and compassion. What would you recommend to the listeners about being more empathetic with themselves? And what are the four healing steps to a practice of self empathy because you can't be any good to someone else unless you're good to yourself. And I think This is the hardest part, Dr. Orloff, because we get so enamored with, you know, we've got most everybody, we've all got an ego, right? The question is, is what is that telling us? And what are we doing? I always say if there was a camera following you all day long, and you played it back, would you like what you saw? And the reality is, that's how we're in it being interfaced with people outside. But we don't have a camera inside. That's running, to say, Hey, this is what's going on with Greg voice Center, Dr. Judy Orloff, to be more self and empathetic, because that's an inside job. How do we get to that inside job to be more self empathetic.

Dr. Judith Orloff
But you have to want to do it, you have to value it. And you have to feel that you're worthy of it. Because many people are brought up a certain religious context, that it's empathic and compassionate to help others. But it's selfish to help yourself. And I so disagree with that. It's an act of self love to help yourself. So you could be in a good shape so that you can help others. Otherwise, I mean, I've seen so many people burn out without self empathy, I've seen health care practitioners hang up, give up their shingles, because they just can't bear it anymore. Because they have no self empathy. And you don't want that we need all the healers we can get with as much longevity as we can get. So if you can just start a day before you see patients, and take a breath and say something nice to yourself, begin with that begin going to sleep was saying something nice to yourself and being kind to yourself, instead of beating, beating, beating, which is what most people do, by the way, you know, no matter how they look on the outside news, you know, they're constantly doing that. And so I would suggest gently shifting that and the four ways to practice self empathy, I thought, chapter, a whole chapter on self empathy, because it's so important. Where you speak to yourself with kindness, not criticisms, or putting yourself down or you're not enough. You get in the habit of addressing yourself with kindness, you connect to your heart, which is the heart chakra in the middle of the chest. So you could feel some warmth and soothing coming from that area. It's what mothers, they've had their babies here, know, it's an maternal instinct to pat their babies over the heart to calm them. You make it empathic statement to yourself, you were in a difficult position today, and you did a great job, you know, you did the best with what you got, as opposed to, oh my god, you're so stupid, you didn't make the most of this and then beat me beat. So you can get the idea of the neurochemical slowing with You're so stupid versus you did a great job, honey, you know, so you have to have the inner dialogue going for self empathy. It's very important to do that. And it's a gentle, loving path, it's the way of the heart, right? It's not your father voice beating you up again, because you haven't resolved the trauma of whatever happened in the past.

Greg Voisen
Well, the other thing is, you have to recognize that you're deserving of this. And I think there are blockages for people that don't feel enough. So they're basically will beat themselves up for as long as they can until they can't stand it anymore. But I do want to encourage my listeners go get the book. Look at these. There's lots of practices in this book. It's a great book that way. There's lots of ways for you to interact with this book, like by asking yourself questions, and so it's interactive learning. And in that way, it's excellent. So get Dr. Orloff book, and we'll put a link to that. So Dr. Orloff in the chapter, removing obstacles, healing your emotional triggers, traumas and fears. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Because people are carrying all this baggage. You tell a story when you were 16 and one of your first loves, you know, and how did you finally remove this hurt and move on with your own life? Also, what are the some of the misconceptions about empathy, and how we can re envision empathy? This story was pretty interesting. You speak very nicely about it. And this person way back when when you were 16, who broke your heart? So and that happens a lot. You know, love and empathy and forgiveness and kindness and compassion are kind of all wrapped up. In an awful so can you tell the story and then tell us how we're going to reinvention, empathy so that we could have empathy for the person that hurt us, because that's one of the harder things, someone hurts you, you don't really want to have that empathy.

Dr. Judith Orloff
No, but the reason you do want to have it is so that they don't stick around in your mind for year after year haunting you, you want to find out what the and that allows them to float off into the ether. So they're not attached to you. That's why you want to do it. But my story was typical teenage girl story, I fell in love. Oh, I'm so in love. It was my first boyfriend. And and I'm just so so in love. And we were together for, I think, a year and a half or two years, and he would send me necklaces, I'll love you forever. And we were you know, it's just all of that first love. And then abruptly he I was walking to school with my, with my books. And I saw him in a red Camaro making out with this girl with who was a cheerleader and really popular. And my whole world just came crashing down. And when I called him, he didn't even return my call. And so I had no closure with him. And I just, you know, I felt like I wanted to die. I felt like my world was over. It was the most horrible even now as I'm telling, I'm getting

Dr. Judith Orloff
your first love of betrays you, and you find them that way. It's just like, Oh my God. And so it really, really affected my life for a long time. And, you know, I won't get into my personal story at that point. But then years later, no, I had a chance to get together, he contacted me. And I had a chance to have tea with them and sit across from him and say, Why did you do that? What was going on? Why didn't you get back to me? And he said, It's the biggest mistake I've ever made. I just wanted to be popular and you weren't popular and cheerleader was popular. And I would go oh my god, you know, that's what I'm thinking. But I understood, you know, I had grown enough. I was, you know, had enough years behind me were all teenagers, yeah. Emotion. It doesn't make my hurt any better. But I do get it. And I appreciate you telling me and then he made overtures that he wanted to maybe be friends again. And never I mean, I could never trust that person again. After that. That was like, for me the primal betrayal of a young girl and teenage should. Anyways, it was archetypal. And many of us have gone through it. I'm certainly not the only one. But the reason I wanted to find empathy with him was that so that I could let him go more. So

Greg Voisen
in my mind, so it wasn't stuck there. I get it, I get it in it, you know, there are times that you need to move on, like you said, and how do you want to say, having empathy for him and his circumstances, assisted you and being able to release that person from your life, but on a favorable basis, not on a basis of negativity? And, and having that there? So you know, in our last question here, it's really, you know, when you look at your book, it's filled with stories that inform the reader. It's got exercises that people can practice in their quest to become more empathetic to others in themselves. What bits of advice would you like to leave our podcast listeners with about the benefits and the powers of being more empathetic? If you just said, Hey, here's three things. I think if that's what you get from this book, this is the best thing you could take away from, from the book.

Dr. Judith Orloff
You'll learn how to have loving relationships. Yes, you can't really do that without empathy. Relationships without empathy don't work very well. And so you want to be able to show empathy, even when you disagree with somebody, even when you don't like somebody, you want to be able to at least see where they're coming from. So that you have a chance of better relationships romantically in the workplace. Wherever you are, and, you know, one of the truths about human nature is that we just want to be seen, we want to be heard. We want to be appreciated. We want to be valued. And if you could give that to somebody that will create a good understanding between the two of you, and when you can have the most hostile person come in front of you And if you say to them, I hear what you're saying, instead of arguing or getting, you know, defensive, I hear what you're saying, I'll give us some thought, as opposed to what's wrong with you. Why do you think that way? You know, it's, it's a different way. But you have to be pretty centered because in the, in the moment, you'll be triggered. And so part of, you know, in this book, I teach you how not to respond to your emotional triggers and to compassionately and empathic ly look back on where they started so that you won't be triggered every time somebody presses a button.

Greg Voisen
You know, incredible. And I think that's, I, we had, oh, gosh, it was a Marshall Goldsmith on here, wrote a book called triggers. And, and I remember speaking with Marshall, he used to live just five miles from here and out meeting this house on Saturdays for tea, and they do like a walk. And you know, triggers in the business world are so big, you know, triggers from other employees from there. And being one of the biggest coaches in the world was really a big deal on emotional triggers, like, how do I get rid of these emotional triggers this person triggers me. And what Dr. Orloff is saying is, you have to move beyond what your actual emotion is around that person's triggering event to actually overcome and heal the relationship with that person. And for my listeners, Dr. Orloff, can you hold up the book, please, I know you've got a copy. And I want people to be able to see it, you're gonna need to go get a copy of this book called The genius of empathy with the practical skills in it. It'll be listed at the website for your purchase. So please go get a copy of that. She's also got other books and we'll put some links to those as well. Dr. Orloff, it's been a pleasure having you on inside personal growth, sharing your years of experience as an empath, and your wisdom around this. I really appreciate having you as a guest on the show. Thank you for being on and thank you for speaking with our listeners. Namaste to you.

Dr. Judith Orloff
Namaste to you too.