Greg Voisen
Welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. This is Greg Voisen, the host of Inside Personal Growth. And I have Cormac Russell, joining us from Dublin, Ireland. Good evening to you, Cormac. How are you doing?

Cormac Russell
Good evening, Greg. Very well, and very happy to be with you.

Greg Voisen
Well, we're happy to have you. And we're going to be speaking today about his book. Also his website, which is a huge resource, we were just talking about The Connected Community, subtitle Discovering the Health, Wealth and Power of Neighborhoods. This is also co-authored with John McKnight. And I want to give a shout out to John because John is kind of when you go to his website, he is a foundation in this particular arena. So both of them have done a great job writing this book. And I want to let my listeners don't know just a little bit about you. Cormac is a Social Explorer and author, and a much sought after speaker. He is the founding director of nurture development, which that is the website, nurture development dot o RG, and a member of the assets based Community Development Institute at St. Paul University in Chicago. Over the last 25 years, core MCs work has demonstrated an enduring impact in 35 countries around the world. He has trained communities, agencies, NGOs, and governments in the A, B, C, D, and other community based approaches in Africa, Asia, Australia, Europe and North America. This is his most recent book, he has another book that was released prior to this, called rekindling democracy, a professional guide to working in citizen space, you can go to his website, and you can also see a link to his TED Talk. So, you know, you had Parker, Palmer, write the introduction to your book. And it struck me with what he said, he wrote, many of us are hard pressed to provide color commentaries on our own neighborhoods. And for that, we're going to pay a price or we are paying a price. Our disconnection from people and place diminishes our quality of life. And its root cause is a range of personal and political pathologies. I agree. One, including loneliness, you know, just people separation and loneliness. And that's a big issue since COVID. Another big issue that people are faced with, what are some of those pathologies and that we're really faced with, in your estimation, Cormack,

Cormac Russell
Greg. It's a very powerful quote. And it's exactly what we would expect from a wisdom holder like Parker, and he's on the money on this one. I think like you say, loneliness is on the rise. We're looking at a deepening sense of social disconnection. But not just, I think we're paying for this level of disconnection with our health as well. So when we look, even though we're living longer, in many cases, people are living longer, but a lot more dissatisfied over time. So we're disconnected. I think from each other. We're disconnected. But we're also disconnected often from our own power sources. In terms of democracy, we're often outsourcing a lot of our agency which we could heart, you know, harness collectively, at the local level, a lot of people thinking democracy is about voting, or just expressing an opinion. It's about a lot more. It's about active citizenship. We're seeing at the moment, very strong examples of what happens when you outsource the production of the energy you consume to distance nonrenewable price gouging monopolies. We're paying a very high price for that right now. And we will continue over the winter. We see this in Europe, and we see this in North America and other places. So I think both in terms of our health and in terms of our citizenship, what he's really calling our attention to here is if we farm out our power and our strength to distant institutions, we shouldn't be surprised when we feel diminished, and we feel polarized from each other. And that's exactly what we're seeing.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, and I think it takes more effort to find things locally. So I mean, that being let's just say even farmers markets, right and buying your goods from a local farmer, that's very small example. But I know in your country, you know, you're using wind power to write and, and we're using some here, but not to the degree that Ireland has really pushed the wind power. And I think having those resources and understanding how we are getting our assets is really, really important our resources, our assets, and if you would speak with the listeners about good life, which is about collective effort and cooperation, not individualism and competition, how do we go about creating good life in our communities? Because, you know, I love the term that you're using to kind of identify what this is, which is about cooperation, and the collective. And what is it at the essence that we need to do to have more of that, versus this mindset, which this western culture that we've all been brought up in? has always, and I'll say, even in corporations, it's command and control. And it's been about competition, we are seeing a shift. It's a gradual shift. But I'd love to know what it is about the good life or how we would go about

Cormac Russell
that good life. Absolutely. That's really what we're trying to call attention to in the book. So for me, the good life is about Ubuntu, which is a South African expression, which means I am because we are, so it shifts my focus away from, you know, the Frank Sinatra, I did it my way, the rugged individual story, and says, We're not self-reliance, were actually other reliant. We're interdependent in all kinds of ways with each other, even if we don't like to admit it, it just is, as it is, we're social beings. And so the good life is not something you go off on your own and experience, we need each other, we need connection with place, with people, with culture, with environment. And I suppose in many respects, the good life is about coming home to the fact that a lot of what we need to have a decent life for ourselves and our families is much closer at hand than we think. But we've outsourced an awful lot of that power to institutions and professions who are very good and well intentioned. But for me, an example of this is what happened a year ago in Shreveport, Louisiana, where a school arrested 23 kids. So here you have a school where the kids go to school, and essentially the first people they're greeted by our security guards, and they're going through a scanning machine. And they're being patted down for guns and for weapons. And not surprisingly, if you if you have that kind of environment, very quickly, you get a culture that is competitive and aggressive, then saw 23 Kids are arrested, what happens? Well, here you have an example of where the story is about how the system hits its limit. So you've got a good principal, good teachers, good counselors, well intended security guards, etc. But none of them can keep the kids safe. What's going on? Few days after this happens 40 dads who live in the local neighborhood, say you know something, this is our business. We got good professionals, they're doing their best, but this isn't okay. So they go to the principal may say, well, we'd like to do something to contribute here. How can we help. And they set up what they call dads on duty. And they go into the school into the hallways, and without any force without any threat of violence or intimidation. With dad jokes and high fives. They start loving these kids back to peace. These aren't vigilantes, they're vigilant elders, who are showing up because they take seriously the idea that it takes a village to raise a child. And by the way, Greg, everybody believes this. There's nobody I've ever met. Who doesn't say Yes, that makes sense to me. But hardly anybody is doing anything about it. So if it takes a village to raise a child, what does it take to raise a village? Well, these dads reckon it takes the dads showing up. And so I think this is a really important insight about what it means to have a good life. The Good Life is contingent on the connectivity of the village. It's not something that we can do through personal growth on our own. And it's not even something that a family on its own can do. Even the best and intended schools can't do it on their own. It really does require the connections across the village. And that's the work to be done. I think.

Greg Voisen
What do you think that? I mean, we see grassroots kind of advocates and people that are much more motivated than others to create a movement, like the dads got together and did this small movement as you want it was a movement for good, the good life as you refer to it as how is it that we inspire people to want to take that action because it is really around an action, positive action to make something different, to change something for the better. And I, my sense is because of how we've been conditioned, there's a lot of complacency around us. And I would just love to know what you think, can be done to kind of inspire that and at what level and where do we start? I mean, I think he needs to start people at younger levels. Junior High School,

Cormac Russell
for sure, for sure. I think, what's really important is you often hear people say, well, folks are very apathetic these days. So they're not showing up in the way that they might have in the past. We have wonderful books like bowling alone, that tells us, you know, there's a retreat in the level of engagement at volunteer level and civic level. And I think that's all true, but it to be positive, I think, we know that everybody cares about something enough to act upon it. We just often don't know what that is. So I think the first step is to find out what people care about. And instead of trying to convert them to what we think they should do, it's really about deeply listening to what gets them going, what lights their fire. A lot of people, you know, it's really striking. They're more like clients, crouched over kindling, waiting for other people to light their fire as against lightning their own, you know, but there, it's important to not moralize, I think people get quite frightened sometimes by the scale. So I think when we can say to people, that however you show up is good enough. So during COVID, I was saying to neighbors of mine, get to know your neighbors before you need them. And it might be that all you do during lockdown is commit to call three members of your golf club, or if you're a member of, you know, a church link in with those three people every single day over the fall. If that's a threshold, if that's something you know, you can do, and you can do it daily. That's enough, if everybody did that, oh, yeah, locked down phenomenally more tolerable, right. So it's about seeing whatever it is you do, if it's about contributing to the wellbeing of the neighborhood, that's great. So I liked the idea that we're distributing the responsibility. And therefore small acts can make a big difference.

Greg Voisen
I like the small acts part. And I think that that's something everybody can do. You know, like I said, if you can just see three people, you know, my, my wife hosted a cookie exchange here at the house. And it's interesting, you get I, as the man wasn't supposed to be here, but I was anyway, you know, and you get to know the people a lot better. And you get an opportunity to, to commiserate and talk about things and what's going on in the neighborhood. And you state that, at the root of many of the world's problems is our disconnection from one another and from our natural surroundings. And I want to underscore natural surroundings. What are some of the side effects of this disconnection? And what can we do about it? I mean, I know when I know, for me a very important element. I'm just speaking personally, my listeners know me is my connection to nature. It's like I have to get out. And I have to be in nature. Because if I'm not, it's like, my whole creativity goes down the drain. And, and I don't have that sense of spirituality and connection to the greater, you know. I know I'd call it nature, right of things. So what are some of the side effects of these disconnections? Well,

Cormac Russell
what starts to happen is we start to numb out not just from our own instincts as human beings, but we start to numb out to all kinds of possibilities, the possibility of you know, if you could imagine standing at the corner of your block and you've got the these X ray glasses on, that allow you to see things that you typically don't notice, like the gifts of your neighbors, the possibilities of the network's the clubs, the groups, the generosity of the mom and pop a store that watches out for people who don't turn up To get their newspaper and we'll go and knock on the door. So all of these invisible but really vital things, these acids as we call them in the neighborhood, if we could see those, and we were connected to those, we could then tap into those as well as contributing, we could benefit from them. Now the issue is when you're disconnected, you can be in a in a place but not have a place. And when we're connected just to be affirmative when we're connected, we're in a reciprocal relationship. So we're nourishing and being nourished, and our nature Natura nature, we are soil beings as well as human beings. So human comes from the same root as humus. So we are soil beings, we must have a sense of being connected to soil being connected to nature, it gives us a rooted sense of who we are. And it makes it much easier for us to be in flow, to be in our citizenship and to be in our power. And it makes problem solving much easier. It also reduces polarization. This connection is similar to polarization, you know, where you're stuck at the cerebral level, where all you're talking about is opinions. When you're rooted with people in place, what you start to do is move beyond opinions towards contribution towards commitment. And when you're committed in action in nature in soil, hey, guess what happens? You start acting in a much more common sense way, you become a commoner. And it is healthy for everybody at all species, there's 8 million species on the planet, we're one. And just, you know, I think we just get to a place where we can be better at being human together with each other and with Mother Earth. And that matters, I think, a huge amount.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, yes, especially during these times, as we've seen environmental changes across the globe. Everything from wildfires here in California, to diminishing rains in many areas, it is very apparent that there is an imbalance going on the co2 emissions increasing. And you know, as you said, you know, the name of your nonprofit is nurture development. Org, it is about us making that connection again, you know, if you would speak with the listeners about your co-author in his book, building communities from the inside out, which became known as the Green Book. Also, tell us about the asset based Community Development Institute, if you would,

Cormac Russell
sure. Happy to Greg. So John McKnight, John has, I would describe him as a luminary in the community development community organizing world, particularly in North America over the last 60 years, is really, he's defined, I think, a huge amount of how we think about building community from the inside out, rather than from outside in which I think was very much the way things might have been thought about before he's his contribution became well known. So across is 91, this year of 91, in November, last month, so across the last six decades, you know, from journey and very deeply in the civil rights movement, working alongside Reverend Martin Luther King, and other key leaders, into the Kennedy administration, where he worked on affirmative action into being a lecturer, teacher at Northwestern University, and lots of high points. And I suppose in that journey, he trained Barack Obama and Michelle Obama, and asset based community development and community organizing in the late 80s. And then one of the things that might be worth mentioning for your listeners as well, Greg is in in the late 80s. Also, John and a close colleague of us, God Kretzmann. And about 70. And others, started to do something that I think really grounded and defined what we understand to be John's primary contribution around acid based community development. And this explains a little bit around where the ABCDE Institute comes out of. So in the late 80s, they visited 20 cities, and 300 neighborhoods across North America. And these were neighborhoods which had been defined by the some of their problems. So they were very much seen as backwaters of pathology. And John and Jody wanted to go in to Do those neighborhoods and deeply listened to people, not as problems to be solved, but as incredibly gifted individuals with experience knowledge, ideas and creativity, and wanted to try to understand from them what it was that they were doing to make life better. And as they listened to people, you know, share stories about times that their neighbors had joined together to make things better. What they began to realize, and this is where the green book emerged from that you mentioned, was the stories you know, as they listen to the stories about how people got together to be effective, they started to realize that the dominant narrative in North America, which kind of said, you know, things get better if you've got better schools, if you've got better hospitals, if you've got better institutions, was actually missing a trick. Because what those folks were telling them in their neighborhoods is things get better, sustainably better. When people who live in the neighborhood sleep in the neighborhoods trade, and the neighborhoods get together and see themselves as primary actors. And they take on the steering wheel. And they're the primary drivers of change. And particularly, when they use local assets, and they discover connected mobilize those assets. So in many respects, the green book was a compendium of those stories. So they gathered 3000 stories, which we're calling our attention to change that happens from inside out, rather than outside in. And that was community led in place based. And that book, The Green Book, should have a copy of here was written 30 years ago, give or take 1993. And it became very significant. So in our world, you know, if a book like that sells maybe 20,000 copies, that's, that's a best seller. So over the course of time, they have sold something in the region 140,000 Sorry, 120,000 have been sold and 20,000 have been gifted. So it's a very, very significant measure of John's and Jodi's and others contribution, they set up the ABCD Institute to proliferate the learning, and to encourage that alternative story, the inside out, citizen led story. And in many respects, that's the heritage that I tap into the ABCDE Institute, which is now hosted by DePaul University in Chicago City, is essentially, I would think about it as a movement. It's a social movement of folks who worked very closely through this perspective through this lens with communities.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, it's, I think, a great example, I was on with another gentleman, Dan Bittner, the gentleman who wrote the blue zones, and in a in a story, you know, he goes into cities. We were talking about exactly what you're talking about this asset based community. He, he said, Hey, look, you need to change the environment, to change the result. So he has a team that goes into the cities. And I think this is a great example. And they work on changing the walking paths and the bike paths and the ways in which people get exercise because his whole goal is to change BMI, the body mass index, so that people are more active, and successful. He's done this in many cities, and saved in the US, literally, in this one city, San Antonio, that he used an example $750 million dollars in health care costs reduced as a result of just making these minor changes, because people will utilize that when it becomes part of the environment. And when they're part of it. You know, so that was a great story. And you tell a great story about community and vorstand and neighborhood. And is it Devon care, and the Netherlands, where I'm Dave and Deb and care, and two individuals named Patrick and lender, tell our listeners what they did and the impact it had on the community. And it's just it was a great story that you put in the book.

Cormac Russell
It is a lovely story, and I'm honored to share it on their behalf and with their permission. So Patrick and Leonard are two gentlemen and I suppose to get the listeners in the in the spirit of the story. I want you to imagine sitting with them as they're sitting outside their front door so they're their neighbors and really good buddies. And what they do still to this day do is they take out their pictures and they sit up front, and they chat with each other. So they're good buddies, they chat with each other. And one day, as they were having a chat, they started commenting on how harsh the built environment was. So lots and lots of bricks with very, very little in the way of plants or, you know, softening foliage. And that conversation because they're both active men lead to let's do something. And so if you knew both of them, you'd see you'd see that if this conversation was only going to go in one direction, and it was slightly illegal. So they stood up, they got back into their houses, took out some pickaxes and some shovels and started digging up the pavement, bricks just under their windowsills, and under witches, some sand and soil and put planters in essentially creating a flower box. So each of them did this under their respective windows. And we're terribly proud of what they called their little street garden in in vorst, which is the name of the neighborhood and Dave winter, which is a city in the Netherlands. So, these two Dutch men, you know, very proud and they come out the next day. So they're sitting beside their two little street gardens, and their neighbors start commenting and say, No, that's very pretty, that looks nice. How did you do that? And, of course, being proactive, they told him, but they also then offered to do it for them. And before very long, you get this ripple effect where these little Street Gardens start popping up, compliments of Patrick and Leonard. And eventually, the word spreads from the street there onto other streets and other people say, hey, we'd quite like to do that. But is there a particular way you do that? Are we allowed to do that? Is that against regulation, and Patrick and Leonard just said, you know, don't ask permission, just ask forgiveness if you need to. But we need to have a nice environment here. So eventually, these things started popping up all over, they started mentoring other people on other streets. And so hundreds of these little Street Gardens popped up. And this is significant, I think, just to contrast it with the story that you told a few minutes ago around the green zones, because here you have local neighbors who are changing their environment, as opposed to people coming from outside to change the environment. And I would commend the Inside Out contrast here, wherever possible. And I'm sure you know, in terms of green zones, that's a really critical insight that wherever the green zones are the Blue Zones, excuse me, I think of green zones now because I'm thinking of Patrick and Lennar, but the Blue Zones are really powerfully also about how people feel they can shape their own environments. So that that's a little bit of what happened here. Because as Patrick and leathered started going to other streets, and essentially mentoring other neighbors on how to create their own street gardens. They started meeting other people, other neighbors who had various passions. So for example, they met a lady who was also sitting outside her front porch, and she was knitting. And Patrick setter, you know that I've been in hundreds of houses now, talking with people and I've met many people who enjoy knitting like you do. And in fact, we've got our own knit and natter group in the neighborhood. And these are people who just get together knit together, would you like me to introduce you to them, and she thought that was a lovely idea. And so what you see with Patrick and Leonard's as well as that they're connectors, so they're connecting people together like this lady. And a beautiful ripple effect of that was that group, that knit and natter group, knitted, a wonderful scarf that was three kilometers long to the colors of the local football club that's community owned. And they actually set a Guinness Book of Records in doing this the longest scarf ever knitted in the world. So these kind of motherhood and apple pie moments, but in all kinds of ways, the ripples stories, they're like the parents who found an allotment with the help of Patrick and Lennar for their kids to play and really was powerful. The most powerful story that comes out of that is the story about the family that came as guests, you know, fleeing Syria, and were allocated a house in that neighborhood. And the neighbors decided to come together to try to welcome that family at a time when in a lot of neighborhoods, there's quite a lot of hostility to asylum seekers and refugees and migrants coming in. So it doesn't always work out like this. But I think because of the connectivity And that had been created through the various ripple effects stories that I was I was sharing with you there, the people decided that they would wrap the house that the folks from Syria were coming to, in the scarf of their local neighborhood, and explained to the family, that what they wanted to do was given an outward expression of welcome and warmth, and explain to that family that even though they were fleeing from quite a traumatic environment, that they would be held in the warmth of that community and that they were safe. Now, I nearly choked up as I think about this. But this idea of a community, finding a way of welcoming the stranger at the edge is really powerful. And just it starts out with two guys saying, let's do something, and then slowly connecting people together, and building that collective power that collective agency. Well, it's

Greg Voisen
a, it's a tremendous amount of compassion on the part of the individuals to do something like that. And I think, as a species, if we're wanting to involve someplace, it should be to connectivity and compassion for one another, which is a very, very spiritual element. But at the same time, it's, it's a way for us to enrich our own life as much as it is to enrich somebody else's life. But that gift of giving, you know, finding them a place to live, wrapping it in the scarf, what Patrick and Leonard did, helping people build their gardens, you know, and you speak about what is required to create the connected community, the book is broken down into three specific processes of change. You call it discover, connect and mobilize? Can you speak with us about these processes for change in our local communities, and going from consumerism to localism? Because, you know, I think, look, it's we know the prevalence of big business today, we've I'll point to companies, it doesn't matter what it is, but let's just use Amazon, you know, that is consumerism. At its best probably. And then you have these other companies like Etsy, trying to kind of disrupt that a little bit by all the smaller homemakers where you can buy this. But localism is really more than that. So if you would, how would somebody listening today who might be in some small city next to me listening, or a larger city saying, hey, we need to have more localism, less consumerism?

Cormac Russell
Yeah, absolutely. So a lot of this is about imagination. But what helps imagination is the discovery phase. So I'll just take you through the discovery connection and mobilization phases really briefly, because it gives us it's not a map, but it gives us a compass and orientation point, in terms of how we might do something that makes visible what's often invisible. So that discovery phase starts with, what is it we have locally, which we may not necessarily either see? Or if we do see, we may not necessarily value what are those things? So there's an intentional process of let's map our assets. Let's discover what we have. And we can't discover unless we go and actually have conversations, go out and find out. So that's a really critical piece in the whole process. Let's start by looking under our own noses. Let's go outside, let's connect with our neighbors. And let's find out what are the acids that we have locally, in terms of what kind of resources what knowledge base what skills and gifts to our neighbors have? What do the clubs in the groups do? And it's really

Greg Voisen
cool usually drives those initiatives, Cormac? Because, you know, there was, again, it takes the drive and ambition and will to want to find these assets, it's to me, it'd be like building a big map. Okay, now, in a sense, it's like, hey, oh, great. I live here near the ocean, we've got the ocean, or we've got natural resources all around us, or we've got people that are doing things locally, that nobody knows anything about. Right. So who drives that initiative? And, and can they find all these resources on your website?

Cormac Russell
Yeah, they can. But let's just go back to that very important question of who initiates or who precipitates this? Right. I think the answer is that largely, if you look at how communities naturally organized themselves, what you'll find is that somebody in the local neighborhood has a concern or has a passion or as a care, you know, And so they can go one of two ways often. So one way they can go, as they say, you know, we tell a story about a mum, who's worried that her daughter is getting pulled in a direction she's not too happy about. And she wants to try to discover a way of connecting her daughter over the summer period with productive adults and productive activity, right. So here's a woman who could say, well, I'm going to refer my daughter to a program, and, you know, get her organized in some kind of activity for the summer, she could sort the problem out separate from her neighbors. But what she decides to do is to try to discover in the local neighborhood with her daughter, what are the possibilities here, and with her daughter, and she starts out really small, Greg, she starts out with a couple of other moms who also have a concern. They're working moms, they care for the kids on their own, they got to work summers coming up. So a lot of free time. There girls are, you know, 1314 years of age? And you can understand is the app parents yourself? There's a lot of concern about that, right? So do we go to the marketplace and pay for some kind of a youth program or whatever, or if we can't afford it? Do we try to get, you know, some voluntary organization to work with our kids? Well, she didn't, she decided she was going to try and tap in to the local assets in the community. And she discovered, even in this very low income neighborhood that there were hundreds and hundreds of neighbors who do all kinds of interesting things. voluntary activities, go out care for homeless people. She discovered hairdressers, she discovered police officers. And she went with three or four of her neighbors, they knocked on their neighbor's doors, and they said, You like us have young kids, we'd like to self-organize this summer, that every one of our kids can have a number of weeks where they can go and experience a work placement with you for a day, would you sign up to bring one of the kids from the neighborhood to work with you for a day, get your boss to agree to that. So we can change the story about our neighborhood that says nobody in our neighborhood amounts to anything worthwhile. And we can get our kids to recognize there's lots of amazing people doing lots of amazing things in our neighborhood. And we got really productive adults that they can look up to. So across the course of that summer, they tapped into the acids of their neighbor, their neighbors, and you know, their neighbors workplace, they couldn't have done that unless they went through a discovery phase, they had to go knock on doors, they had to have conversations, they could have been, they could have been consumers, right, they could have gone and outsourced the problem. But and this is a choice, I guess, that they decided to make, some of which was just they didn't have the purchase power to go to the marketplace. So if you don't have money power, you better have neighbor power. And if you want the neighbor power, you've got to go out and uncovers it's under the stones, but you got to lift the stones up to find it. So that's what they did they do or not, they talked to their local barbers and hairdressers, they went to look to the local assets. That's the first thing. But it's not enough to just discover and map, you also then got to connect those things together. So you might find that there's seven girls who really want to learn about hair braiding. And you might have, you know, somebody who knows how to do that as a local artist, but then they need somewhere to meet. And it needs to be bigger than the house. So then you got to tap into a local meeting place, maybe it's a local school or a local gym or a church. And you've got to go and you've got to make the connection. So that's why we go from Discover the assets that are disconnected. So you got kids to something, you've got maybe a skill local artist that's willing to teach, you've got a place that they can meet. But you've got to connect those things together. And you've got to build the relationships, the moms can just go see, you know, thank you for looking after my kids, they've got to do the relationship building and the trust. And all of this goes at the Speed of Trust, you know, but What's lovely about it is then you get to the mobilizing. Because at the end of that summer, everybody feels more confident, more buoyed up kids have aspirations that they didn't have previously. And what does everybody say at the end? What are we going to do next summer? How do we mobilize, get this going involve the men how about we get the boys involved? And now what you're creating is a new gang, a positive gang, where people belong, they feel productive, and they get to do things that contribute to the welfare of the community. That's what gangs offer in a negative sense. What this story is a story about discovering, connecting and mobilizing in a positive way and it's about localism, not consumerism. That's a great

Greg Voisen
story by the way, because it gives people an example that they can relate to almost anybody could relate to that. And you said the Speed of Trust. And it reminded me of a recent interview with Stephen Mr. Covey, who wrote the book, The Speed of Trust. And then his sister who was on for a book that had been in the works for 10 years since their father had died. Call life in crescendo. And it was really about, you know, when you think about it, as we age, we get the opportunity to continue to contribute. And I think that's what this is really all about, you know, is, what kind of contribution can we make? And probably, in this space, you speak about the gentle power of connectors, I've always been known by my community as a connector. What are the characteristics? And why are they so important to building a community of support and connectivity? Because, you know, those connectors seem to be the spark most of the time like that, for some reason, they end up looking and seeing connecting the dots, right? And it's not just connecting people, it's really connecting the dots around, how do we solve the problem? So tell us a little bit about those characteristics as you outline them in the book.

Cormac Russell
Yeah, so there, there are many, but there's six that we really zero in on and often, you know, try to invite people to see if they can find folks that might fit some or all of those. So the six characteristics, and it's important to say that we think about connectors as distinct from leaders. So one of the things that you'll see, the first characteristic is that they invest their energy in associational activities. So they're very focused on the Wii rather than the me. So you'll not hear them talk a lot about personal growth or me time, they're talking very much about how do we get folks connected to do things that they might be interested in doing together. So they're more focused on the choir than they are the elite solo singer. And they're really thinking that's, that's their nature, I don't, that you can train somebody to be a connector, they came into the world made this way, they very much enjoy belonging, and involvement and reciprocity, so that that's the first thing, their whole orientation is Association. The second characteristic is the achieve their ends, because they're trusted by the community. So they're not seen as being nosy as interfering in people's business. And their influence, which is important is it has nothing to do with the title with position or claim to authority. So I think in that sense, they're not in that second characteristic. They're not coming from a place of influencing by status. They're influencing their true relational welfare, and loss, right? A third characteristic is, they're really happy about giving credit away to people. So you'll regularly hear them, lift people up and feature people. So they're not trying to be more equal than eager. They're really trying to use their ability to shine a light on other people's gifts, and then to orientate the gifts of one person. So they'll say, Greg, you're a wonderful public speaker. And I know a group that could really benefit from your gift, could I introduce you to somebody who I think will really appreciate your capacities. So they don't ask, Will you volunteer for an activity, they will call you forth by your gift, they will know you and sometimes they'll see your gift before you do. And they will also know somebody that you will get on with like a house on fire. And they have the audacity to say, Would you allow me to introduce you to this person, because I think the two of you have just been waiting all your lives to meet each other. And so you really find it very hard to say no to a connection. But I think that's a critical piece. So they're very personal and how they talk. That's a fourth piece. They're talking to Greg, the gifted person who is and they'll, they'll speak in those terms. A fifth characteristic is they're not apologetic, so they're not doing this out of charity. They're not doing this because you know, oh, poor Cormac. He has no friends. Let's try and be nice to him. They're doing this because they genuinely believe that they can't be fully a community until comics gifts have been have been welcomed. in Psychology. They say that a mother's never happier than her most unhappy child. Well, a connected His mindset is to say that a community is never fully a community until the person most of the march and has brought their gifts into the center. So they're very much defining community, not by the strength of leadership in the community, but by the depth of associational life and are welcome for the stranger at the edge. So I think that's their nature. And of course, they're very sociable creatures as well. So, you know, they, they tend, they tend to, I would say, not be at the front of the room, with a microphone chairing the meeting, I think we're in the middle of the room congealing and bringing together maybe handing out cake and, you know, so that, that, that that's the best I think I can do in the short time to give people a feel for the characteristics as much well,

Greg Voisen
you know, it's a, it's certainly it was great in a, you gave almost all of the characteristics, and I think, in defining someone who is a connector, I think there's two words that are used, frequently used, one is connector and a Maven. You know, and, and in me being Jewish, you know, either one works, but the reality is, is that it is something that I am known for people almost interestingly kind of expect it, they're like, oh, Greg is going to introduce me to somebody again today. And you know, who's that going to be? And, and if I look at the number of emails that I send, for introductions, it's a lot. I spend a lot of time carefully thinking about, can this person make a connection? Could something spark what might happen as a result of that? And so my mind is always putting those dots together. And whether it's in your community, or it's through what you do, I think it's an important element, because you never know what's going to happen as a result of the willingness to make that introduction. And you know,

Cormac Russell
I can I can, I just had one thing that might be helpful for folks as well. What we noticed too, is that connectors are willing to step back. So after the connection is made, they don't have a need to possess that contract. And that's the distinction, I think, between a connector. And I don't want to over egg this, but perhaps a connector and a networker. networkers often talk about, you know, my network, connectors Don't talk about my connections. That's important.

Greg Voisen
Well, it's again, it's for the good life, it's for the greater good. They're, they're not in it for a personal gain. There's never a thought of a personal gain. It's about the we, not the me. And so that's how you make those connections. And if something good happens, and you hear back from somebody, great, you know, and you hope that it, that it did something, you know, in, in wrapping up our interview, that the book is filled with wonderful stories, we only got to talk about a few of those stories. But there's a lot of examples and advice on moving toward the connected community. If you would speak to the listeners with the tips that you provide to hold a discussion, which is the initial step that needs to be taken to discover, connect and mobilize the gifts of our neighborhoods. So basically, what I'm saying is the impetus, the starting point, right at the tip. You know, those discussions that need to be hold you, you spoke about it a little bit going out and you know, going door to door and talking to people and looking at assets and seeing what's available. What is this element at this tipping point?

Cormac Russell
Yeah, the tipping point. And I can give you a really, really quick story that because I think the question might be how do we do it on our street at very small scale? And the answer is learning conversations. You know, you can draw an arc you can go to where people are naturally connecting anyway, the bumping places and the gathering spaces, and just begin the process of finding out what people care about enough to act upon what they'd be willing to do for their neighbors help them. So in that sense, listening campaign, where you're going out, and you're listening. And an example of this, I have one of my favorite examples happened in Hodge Hill in Birmingham, where a Church of England Minister a pastor said, hey, I want to do I want to work this way. So I don't want to just set up projects I want to really connect the community and he found seven local people in his neighborhood who were really just good at connecting their community are good sociable people. And what he did was he said Well let's over 12, maybe 13 weeks let's just go without any agenda and give our community a good listening to and will be opportunistic, let's not make it hardship, duty or burdensome you guys already know lots of people. So just talk to the people you know, would be a little bit more intentional. Find out What's kind of moving this community? What are the priorities? What do people care about. And of course, if you got seven connectors that are already connected, I mean, most of them no 2030 people anywhere in the neighborhood, you got a lot of reach there already. And what they began to do also was, and this is the key tip, they began to be very, very thoughtful and very attuned to who are the other connectors in the neighborhood, who represent the diversity of that community represent, you know, reach into parts of the community, from an ethnicity point of view or agenda point of view that I don't in each point of view. And they found 93 other people, Greg, who are connectors as we've been talking about, so now they go from one pasture to eight people, seven on the pasture, to 100 people. And you know what they did, they went to those folks, and they sat with them, and they said, hey, you know that your neighbors are talking about you. And they're saying really positive things. So they told the stories back to the connectors that their neighbors had told about them. And then they said to those connectors, we'd like to have a party to celebrate you, to appreciate you to appreciate what you're doing. The local church is very kindly, they're not trying to convert you. So don't worry about that. But they want to offer the gift of their space to come and have a party with no agenda. So people have faith and have no faith just coming together as neighbors. And the ask of each of those connectors was would they bring four people from their block that they felt cared deeply about the kinds of conversations that were going on conversations that were about? What have we got? How can we use it to make a good life to make a decent life for everybody, but also the collectivize our voice to talk to outside agencies and make sure they're trustworthy, they're useful, and they're serving us? Well? Well, they had 500 People now in a room having a party sharing stories, good, traumatic, the whole mix. But stories that were really about that neighborhood about the tapestry of that neighborhood. And over the last seven years, they've done that every year. And they have built a really, really powerful, connected community that can do a lot of stuff locally, itself, but also is working much more collaboratively with outside agencies, police force, etc. And I really liked this idea, because what they're doing over a very, very steady course of time, is they're bringing the gifts of every single neighbor to the table. But they're also working much more effectively with outside providers and saying, Hey, we're not on our knees, we're partners here, there's things we can do ourselves. So remove the barriers, those things we need a little help with. So be collaborative, be on top, don't be on top. And then there's things you need to do to serve us. And you need to do that transparently and in an accountable way.

Greg Voisen
Well, you've given a great story about how to start that. And I think the book is also a great opportunity, the connected community to get a copy of the book. If anything this morning, during this podcast, or whatever time you're listening this to this podcast resonated with you definitely go to the website, because the resources at Carmacks website is nurture development dot o RG. There, you'll find lots of resources, there's downloads, you can basically a watch the TEDx talk, which I would recommend, but inside this book, there's a lot of resources as well. That's the great thing. So if you like reading, you know, get the book, go. And check out the website to learn more about what Cormac is advocating. And if you feel like your community is disconnected, not connected, which I think many people out there listening could relate to. Why don't you become the Maven who's listening to this podcast or the connector? Who could change that and find out what the resources are? And what are the assets and start your own? How do you want to call it start your own discussion groups and find out more? It'll grow from there. I think if you put the effort in it will grow from there. Cormac, you've been a pleasure having on the inside personal growth and speaking about your new book. And thanks for spreading the word about helping to make a good life really just a good life for everybody. That's what we're that's what we're attempting to do with all this work that we're doing. Thank you so much.

Cormac Russell
Thanks, Greg.