Greg Voisen
Welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. This is Greg Voisen and most of Inside Personal Growth. And joining us from London, England is Lilamani de Silva, and her partner, Michelle Berg joining us from Los Angeles. No, where are you? You're just a little north of Los Angeles, right? Yeah, I'm in Valley, in the valley in the valley. And we're going to be talking with these ladies this morning. About two things, we'll blend it together, you get twice for this interview. One is about these Joy Cards that they have just released. This is a beyond words, release this one. And we'll also integrate in here, the 15 Minute pause because you can't get one without the other. Let's face it. It's all kind of a blended thing. So, but the Joy Cards are really interesting. And I want to let our listeners know, inside this box, are all these Joy Cards, but also a great guidebook. And we're going to be asking them some questions from the guidebook and also from the cards themselves. And we'll be weaving in 15 minute pauses for everybody. How's that? And let me just give you a little bit of background about both of our people that are speaking with us, I should say authors in card because Lilamani actually designed all the cards. And so she's quite the artist that is part of her input. But Michelle is a highly respected and sought after leadership team strategist, coach and speaker, as founder and president of the energy catalyst group, which is where all of you can go to learn more about Lilamani and Michelle is energy catalyst group.com. She's been consulting and training companies on wellbeing. She's devoted 20-year career to helping individual’s teams and organizations ship unproductive attitudes and behaviors that get in the way of thriving, and so energizing the workplace and life. And when you go there, you'll see she's got lots of partners as well, and law nominee to silver as a master's in biochemistry, and papers in psychology from university. Out ago in New Zealand. Her eclectic career has spanned across different industries, including media relations and film production. She was a clinical audit facilitator at Hammersmith hospital for many years, of course, and public relations lead to PR role in London Zoo, her keen knowledge of zoo world and background and endless launched a new career as a researcher then at AP in production of natural history documentaries. And you're probably thinking, how did this woman get to designing these cards? Well, because she likes to do a lot of different things. That's the main thing. So let me this first question is for both of you, and you each can respond. If you would tell us a little about the formation of your partnership, I think which would be a foundation for this as well is why you both decided to write these Joy Cards. And I can only guess it was right in the middle of the pandemic, as you guys mentioned in the book. We all needed a little more joy then and we all need even more joy now. So tell us a little bit about that. Who wants to go first?

Lilamani de Silva
Well, I can. We met in Seattle, Washington. I really believe it was sort of a serendipitous meeting. I was filming at the time for the Discovery Channel. And Michelle was a keynote speaker for the World Wide conference with Microsoft. And a friend introduced us and that's that that history? I mean, we ever since then, what it's been over 20 years, isn't it? Michelle? Yeah. Yeah. 20 long years? No, 20. Great Year.

Greg Voisen
We've had Michelle. What about you, Michelle, what would you say about this partnership?

Michelle Burke
I would say Yeah, well, I mean, it's certainly that was exactly how I met. And I think it's, it's grown over the years. You know, we when we started out, it was, you know, we knew that we had some things in common. And we also shared a common purpose that we both wanted to make a difference in the world. And we did it from different perspectives. You know, we had different backgrounds and different perspectives, but we shared a similar purpose and philosophy in life. And I think that really helped us create the various products that we've created, including the Joy Cards.

Greg Voisen
Well, let's talk about these Joy Cards, you know, we have probably more female listeners than males. And usually males, you know, it's like, Oh, Joy Cards, why do I want to have a joy card with a nice picture on it? I think that's just the male side. But, you know, Hay House has been putting out cards like these for a long time. I think both of us talked about this last time on the show. And I've always bought cards or decks that I really liked. And I'm willing to for my listeners, because I think it's really important to actually show them a couple of the cards. This, that's the guidebook. So there it is. And let Lilamani great work on the artwork on these cards, by the way, oh, so this is a judgment free Day card. And there's the other side. So you have a beautiful picture. So you could read this and like stick it right in front of your computer, on your board, or whatever you wanted to do. But the point is, is to use these cards, right? So speak with us, if you would, about you had a party in here from Notes from the creators, that life's little pleasures and acts of kindness is evolving, practice wherever we go. Fortunately, Joy gems are everywhere, if we look for them, right. And I think the key is, this reminds us to look for them. The cards remind you to look for them speak about having a judgment free day, I just told you guys a minute ago, we're in the midst of I was ranting about these shootings. And I was definitely creating a judgment was an eye. And as little woman he said, well, sometimes you have to do that. But give us your judgment free day, first card in the deck and a way to shift our perspective and experience for more joy in our lives. out

Lilamani de Silva
it I think in terms of joy gyms, I'll just go into that a little a little bit. So Joy gyms are what we coined the phrase over a period of time, what they mean are the simple pleasures in life. I mean, it's a very, that's the everyday things that we miss, because we're too busy. And we haven't had a chance to stop. And really think about things like for example, you know, tasting your coffee, Michelle's book talks about tasting her coffee, I don't drink coffee, but tasting my tea, every English person has a cup of tea. And just making the time to do that or observing these, you know, buzzing around flowers, simple, simple, everyday thing. And we just wanted people to appreciate that, you know, we can miss those things if we because we are too busy most of the time.

Greg Voisen
So Michelle, and I look, you spent a lot of your time in corporate America. I would think that these would be really perfect on everybody's desk, you know, or even if they're at home, right? Because a lot of people are working from home these days. And you're getting on Zoom calls like we are here as well. What is the what do you think could happen as a result of individuals working inside of corporations, team building, utilize these Joy Cards?

Michelle Burke
Well, it's interesting that you, you bring that up great, because actually, I've heard now from a few different people that they are putting the Joy Cards on their desk, and their coworkers are coming into their office every day to pick a card. And now they're having an actual conversation because they're going and doing the activity different people are coming in at different times and pulling a card and reading it out loud. And then looking in the booklet to see what it means and what the health benefits are. And just having that conversation is spreading joy. You know, you're talking about something joyful, and now they're going in, trying it out. And then coming back and sharing what they experienced. And to me just even shifting that and integrating that type of a conversation into your workday is like a huge shift in the way that we look at work because most of us go into our office, whether it's at home or into an office at work. And we're you know, we're tunnel vision, you know, we're Check, check, check, check, check, check, check all are to dues. So many people aren't even taking lunch, right we get caught up and like what Lilamani was saying about the joy Jim's taking those moments. Just a moment out of the day a pause Thank you great love that yes, that is the word thinking of pause to actually have those moments and appreciate those moments of joy and that everybody deserves that. I think

Greg Voisen
We will ask you hit something and I'm gonna take this off in a different little direction here but it's okay. You know recently did an interview with Marshall Goldsmith on his new book called The Iron life, and on one end of the continuum, he has joy. And on the other end he has what he's calling are the meaningful things, your purpose in life, your meaning in life, happiness. Let's talk about happiness for a second because joy and happiness go together. You know, he has all these achievers which you work with Michelle, and you both work with. And these achievers, no matter what happened, he said, would come in and they would say, Well, you know, I got the PhD, I got a double PhD, I invented something that made me 10s of millions of dollars, and he's coaching some of the top people in the world, right? I have a beautiful house, yet. They had so many regrets, and no joy, no happiness, they had no time for happiness. It was like it eluded them, you know. And you know, what he did speak about which I was interesting to address with you guys just kind of this concept, which I didn't even know Marshall did this is about impermanence, right? And non-attachment. It's a Buddhist concept. But you know, when you want to have joy, and this is the question Sigmar Raul says, you have to choose happiness. You have to choose it first. Right? It's not something that it doesn't happen unless you choose to have it. What would you say? Because joy and happiness to me are kind of the same thing. Are these cool? Are these supposed to bring awareness so that we choose joy?

Michelle Burke
You know, I actually think it. Yes. And I would say that there. It's a pathway. It's a tool to and it gives you permission to experience and bring joy back into your life or rediscover what brings you joy, or bring more joy into your life. And so yes, it definitely brings awareness because if you are engaging with the cards, you're learning, right, and you're trying possibly something new, or maybe you're doing something that you haven't done in a really long time, like Lilamani. And I discovered when we were challenging each other during when we were creating these cards, and that in and of itself brings joy.

Greg Voisen
Well, what I like about these cards, and again, I'm not going to belabor this for the listeners, but you don't even go anywhere in the deck, pull a card out, stick it up there. And in less than 30 seconds, read the statement and turn it over and look at the beautiful artwork. And I think just that in of itself, because you know, people say, Well, do you want to read another book? And you're going like, I don't need to I don't want to read a whole book. What can I do in the moment right now to shift my attitude to shift my emotions? And I think that's what these cards do. Right?

Lilamani de Silva
Yeah, absolutely. And like you say, it can be getting joy is a choice, it is a choice. But sometimes we do need reminding. And, you know, these cards are a reminder. And it's a very quick and easy way of changing like you say a mood, because there are lots of health benefits associated with each card, you know, you can you can lower stress, because sometimes when we're stressed, the cortisol levels are so high that we can't even get back to back to normal. So with a quick positive vibe or a different mindset, it can be done, you know, and with a little gratitude, or changing your mind and going outside and looking at things that you're curious about, it can make a whole lot of difference like

Greg Voisen
This, you guys have you have backgrounds in science, so the oxytocin actually can get released as a result of these Joy Cards. Right? So that reduces hormones. Well, but I mean, when you look in your adrenal glands, and what's actually being on the top of your kidney, right, yeah, that's where it's coming from. But what happens is when you go into flight, fight or freeze, which is that other state, because that's the limbic side, right? We're virtually not doing that we're getting more cortisol. Right? And the cortisol is blocking the ability to produce the oxytocin. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if that's a correct scientific approach to this. But what I'm saying is, fundamentally my listeners get it. You if you go into that mode versus picking up one of these cards, and just putting it in front of you and choosing joy, right? You even if you're going to just choose toy for the next half an hour until the next phone call comes then pick up another one right or whatever. That's way to do it. But you mentioned the guidebook that Joy Cards act as a catalyst to spark fun in unexpected ways. And our long term solutions for managing stress and anxiety, which we just talked about, speak about the joy card remembering happy memories, and how this act shifts our mood I, it's something that I don't think people do often enough. It's like, we're always on to the next, it's always about the next. You know, I say yesterday was a canceled check tomorrow as a promissory note, the only thing that you really have is now, right. So if we did live our lives this way, which in the Western world, I think it's the Western disease, right? We could have a lot more joy. So what about remembering happy memories? Who wants to address that?

Michelle Burke
Well, I think that I think that's a great example, you know, one of the many examples of how quickly we can get back to a joyful place. You know, if we take a moment and remember, something, a happy memory that we've had when we were a child, or, or, or an adult, and reliving that moment in our memory, again, helps release those happy hormones. And so it immediately makes us feel good. It's like listening to music, if you if you hear a song that that reminds you of a happy time, you immediately have a smile on your face, you can't help it like if you're even telling a story about a happy memory, Greg, you immediately get a smile on your face, when you're telling it your vocal voice changes into a much more positive place. And so those are things that everybody can do me much like the jumps that Lilamani was talking about earlier, those things are small, and yet they have a huge difference. And they don't take much time. And they don't cost anything. And that's the one thing that I think we're really wanting people to understand is that these Joy Cards allow you to have access to joy, right? To bring joy into your life, without having to think that you have to spend hours of your day, or spend millions of dollars to do it.

Greg Voisen
And it's technology free. Meaning it's not something on your iPad, it's not something on your iPhone, it's not something on your Android device or your tablet. It's actually a physical card. Which, you know, some people say that's kind of old school, why didn't they digitize right? There's a reason why you did digitize them. Because the tactical pneus of actually holding a card and reading something, I think is really important. And I don't want to sound old fashioned here. But the reality is that is your intent behind this, I would assume right? Yeah, absolutely.

Lilamani de Silva
Yeah, you can, you can touch it, you can feel it. And you and the end, the four areas are really important as well, because it's mind body, heart and soul. So we, we divided it into those areas so that people could if they wanted to concentrate on the mind, because then you know, if your mind is hyperactive or overactive, and you need it calm, there are cards that can do that for you like the happy memories, and you can slow it down. Or you have the heart connection, you know, heart so you can connect and reconnect with people. It's just a reminder of and your body, you know, you need to move your body you love gardening and the things that you might have forgotten to do. And just go back to again, it's just a reminder, and it's a very positive reminder.

Greg Voisen
Well, you know, it people will say, Well, we live in a complicated world, we live in a complicated world because we make it so you know, if you literally shut out the media and shut off the things, and grew in your garden, like you just talked about and did things that way, which it's almost feels like sometimes people are out of reach with it. You know, it's like a can't I can't get there because everything's moving so fast. And I think this is intentionally designed to slow you down. To take a deep breath. Let's talk about the wellness elements of this. You mentioned that the Joy Cards are based on research that you conducted specifically in the areas of positive psychology, health and well-being. Can you speak about the scientific studies that prove that stimulating joyful feeling stimulates the neurotransmitters which we were just kind of just talking about, but you know, I don't know who wants to just that? Is that you Michel? Sure. Is that Lilamani?

Michelle Burke
I think we both could be speaking to that. I know that one of the reports that I spent a lot of time researching is the stress in America report comes out every year. It's been coming out for decades. And certainly in the last few years in particular, stress levels are at an all-time high, which is no surprise, given everything that's been going on. And, and understanding what the impact is on our physical, mental and emotional and psychological being is enormous. And so an example of gratitude, there's been so much research just on gratitude alone, to show that by just the simple act of being genuinely grateful, will release dopamine and serotonin in your brain immediately. And actually, that brings your that cortisol level down, and actually makes you feel better. And each of the cards were intentional in that way that alumni were looking at, we were like, what is that? What is the wellness benefit of doing this particular activity? What how is it going to help you in that way, because we, we want everybody to feel and experience more joy. And we want them to actually feel it like inside because that's, that's where it will shift your life in a really positive way. If you if you're willing, right, like that choice piece that you talked about earlier, Greg, choosing it is a big part of, and being willing to try it out to just try it each day one little thing, it doesn't have to be a big thing, it could be a small thing. Great. Being grateful, takes no time at all, you know, I started my day with gratitude. Writing a handwritten note to somebody, just the act of writing it out and sending it or giving it to somebody actually helps you. Look what I

Greg Voisen
Kept. Look what I can't.

Michelle Burke
Is that my oh my gosh, that's my car to

Greg Voisen
your handwritten note with your insurer, and the 15 Minute pause on it. So that's fantastic. That just shows that your cards work. Now, I would say that, you know, we're all day long, given a certain amount of energy your company has called the Energy catalyst group. It's about the focus of that energy. And the ability, what I would say, and I'm going to ask you this question. Do you see that when people work with these cards, whether you whether it was just the two of you, or you have more research than this, that they found that they were more energized, that they were more inspired? I use inspired instead of motivated, because to me, inspiration comes from within? It's a spiritual kind of experience. And I think these cards are designed for all those who are my spiritual listeners, which there's lots of them. It is about bringing that connection to a higher self to making that connection. Neither of you want to comment on that.

Michelle Burke
Or died. Yeah, I would. Like there was a lot of I know. Well, I agree with you, Greg. I mean, I think that when allometry and I were creating these cards, we were really looking at how do you help people cultivate it from the inside out? Because otherwise it won't last. And that's why we call it a joy journey. Because it is a practice, right? Like it is a choice that we have to make for ourselves and say, Yeah, I deserve this. I want more of it in my life, I want to feel more joyful. And I think that in that in and of itself, just doing that act alone is. Well, it's a positive thing. But the thing that you talked about the energy, it does energize us, and energy is contagious. Like it and so is joy. And so Joy carries that positive energy, right? And so if you're feeling joyful, then that's going to that's going to impact other people that you're around when you walk in the door and you're in a great mood or something positive happened or you've you just smell the roses on your walk back from like I do with my dog JD and I'm like smiling and happy about it all, you know, I whoever I'm going to be interacting with next is going to get the benefit of that. You know, so I think it's I think we don't realize that when we feel joyful moms out there who have kids, when you're in a good place and you're feeling positive that impact directly your children you know, they see it and feel it. In fact, in our research Ludlum you remember that with it that the research about the moms who are really stressed out and the one thing that kids when kids were being asked about their moms, and what was one wish that they wanted from their moms. their kids’ response was, they would like to see their moms be less stressed and more joyful. Yeah.

Lilamani de Silva
It's not more, you know, it wasn't more money or more time, it was actually less stress because it definitely influences them and their lives. And I definitely think joy just makes our busy day better. And the more the more joy you have, the dopamine cycle is a reinforcement cycle. So the more you do, the better it is. Because the more you want to do, and it's just getting into a practice in a rhythm, really, and changing some habits a little bit.

Greg Voisen
Well, this is this is my listeners’ investment into wellness, right? Yeah, look, you guys can buy a peloton, you can go do yoga, and you can run on the beach, you can walk in the woods, you can do whatever you want, physically. This is a mental health card. And when your mental health is better, everything else is better. So that's my, my plug one of the plugs. Now the guide book, you speak about the different ways we can use the Joy Cards and Lilamani you started talking about it? Can you talk about the use of the category of the cards in the mind, the heart, the body in the soul? Because we literally now you have those four categories. And the last one I was speaking about soul is the direct connection to spirituality. So to speak, I guess will allow me this questions for you. Michelle, it's for you, too. But you want to start Lilamani?

Lilamani de Silva
Well, I mean each and each and every one of those areas is quite important to make you more rounded really, emotionally, mentally, and physically. You need you need to be balanced all the way around. So I think if one area's out of out of sync, then it can affect the others as well. So they're pretty much integrated. But the soul obviously soul is very important. It's again, what's inside. So building your strength on the inside out. It's about self-worth. And, and loving yourself, really. And that's where it starts, I think,

Greg Voisen
I think you mentioned a very important thing. And that's self-love. You know, if I have bunch of regret in my life, I probably don't have a lot of self-love. Because I'm regretting things that I didn't do or could have been or whatever. But if I'm on purpose, and I have meaning, and I have joy, and I have happiness in my life, there's a good possibility that all those chemicals we were talking about the need to be released are being released regularly. And I'm feeling a lot better about the world, my life and the people around me. Yeah. So

Lilamani de Silva
absolutely. Tell yourself you love yourself every day, and then that'll change as well. No matter, it's a matter of convincing yourself like you say, you know, fake it till you make it. But again, it's, it's that sort of a thing. But the more things you do, and the more you give yourself, you know, positive reinforcement, really, the more likely you're going to really appreciate the person you are because you see yourself in the mirror every day and you are the only person you can fully truly rely on probably so and you've been there all the we're all the way all through your journey. So self-love is so very important really?

Greg Voisen
Well physical wellness is starts with the mental wellness. And, you know, because it's so difficult for people to get inspired to go do what they need to do, if they're not there, right? But what I was saying is that when we're adjusted mentally and emotionally and spiritually, it allows us to go after the physical with what with much more fervor, you know, in the United States and I'm sure Michelle you know this because you're in the wellness side of things and both of you know, we're kind of epidemic proportions on diabetes, and now on overweight, England's got its own problem with overweight so it is New Zealand now so does Australia. But to do those kinds of things that help us release that weight, which is being okay with ourselves number one first, so that we have the energy to then go do the jog or whatever it is we need to do or to have the portion control and still feel good about ourselves, whatever it might be. So Michelle, can you to dress that, because these cards I think, actually are the first part to start for wellness.

Michelle Burke
I love you, I agree in terms of, it's a great place, if you're if you're needing some support around shifting in that in that area, whether it is physically or mentally or emotionally, I do believe that these cards are the instigator, you know, they're a great way to spark your mind shifting, so that you can do something different. We it's hard to make a better decision for ourselves, if we're making it from the same place that we've been stressed it. So we have to find a way to relieve that stress long enough to make a healthier decision for ourselves. And these cards really are a way of, of helping people do that. And I think if you can mentally, I mean, we've got a big mental health care problem here at Bragg, as you well know, I mean, that's, that's gone up tremendously given the pandemic. And so being able to help people find moments where they can have more clarity and clarity, meaning that the brain chemistry has shifted so that it can be more positive, that allows them to think more clearly. For them to be able to go, Oh, I do need to go out and take that walk, I can do that my card says take a walk today, I can do that. Even if it's just for 10 minutes, it doesn't matter. It's the act of getting out there and then doing that thing for even 10 minutes will shift the brain chemistry to help. And then it has a longer effect, right? It has the it states it doesn't just snap back. And that that allows you then some momentum, hopefully. And we also encourage law. This is why the alumna and I did this together is that it really helps if you have a buddy to do it with if you can't, whether it's over zoom, remember the law money and I live in two different countries. And we were able to do, we were able to support each other and still continue to support each other to this day, and challenge each other to get out of our doldrums to shake things up to shift things. And I'm not saying it's easy, this is not like, you know, snap your finger and upset and everybody gets to feel more joyful. It is however, a real way a tool, it's like adding a tool in your toolbox to help you feel better. And that's the first step is being able to help you feel better, so that you can then keep making better healthy choices to go forward. And if you have somebody to help you with it, that makes it easier.

Greg Voisen
I think exam pills out always help people and real quickly. You know, ex-President Obama did a speech at Stanford about two weeks ago. And he was speaking about the importance that social media has played in actually the divisiveness of this country. And the fact that these companies are responsible, they're responsible for what gets out there. And they need to take more responsibility. And he said, what's being pumped is sewage. And then I he said sewage, because it can confuse people enough to make inappropriate decisions to do things. Maybe even that example of yesterday. Yeah. So what he then went on to say, or I should say, I heard another young lady who has become quite famous, she literally was spending 14 hours a day on the internet, building her profile and got suicidal came to a point where she was suicidal, because of just listening to all the noise, I call it the noise, call it the sewage, the noise, whatever you want to listen to. And now he's made a career of helping teenagers and young adolescents actually get away from it, divorce themselves from it, remove themselves from it. And I think this joy card, whether you're alone, or you're in company with somebody can be the greatest mental health solution that you can have. Because just taking time to reflect and not being influenced by somebody else outside their comment. This is you writing you journaling you looking at a joy card and using it and I think just for that reason, people need to grasp onto it. And as you know, we live in a world that's always on technologies created and helped to create this what I call always on world. And that's my comment here about the social media. 14 hours a day on social media. Come on. Speak with what? Yeah, speak with us about your joy card. Tune in to tune out I think what I just said is probably the best reflection. But I want you guys to comment. Because if we tune inside to tune out what else is there, we get to hear that voice of reason we get to hear the voice of a higher power, we get to hear this voice that's speaking with us. And that is encouraging us. And I think that I want to talk a minute because I know both of you understand this, just the power of the reprogramming the subconscious. Speak with us with you would about the tune and tune out and reprogramming our subconscious?

Lilamani de Silva
Well, I think tuning out is very important. It just allows you to have a little silence. Because so much, you don't really get it really understand what's actually going on out there until you have that silent. And it's amazing. Like we said, Joy is so unexpected, you don't know what's going to happen until you stop, isn't it that 15 minutes, even if it's 15 minutes, and tuning out of social media is brilliant, because, yeah, you get to connect with yourself, but you can also sleep better and, and have some quality time with the people you love. You know, it's so important, isn't it? Right, Michelle?

Michelle Burke
Absolutely. And I also think that we're like, you were just saying, Greg, it's become an epidemic, right of addiction to our technology and to the social media and checking in and seeing how many likes we get, and if we didn't get enough likes, and we feel bad about ourselves. And when we were talking about self-worth and self-love, it's really hard to keep your mental health about it. When you're getting all this noise and sewage, like you were saying earlier, from people you don't really even know. And yet somehow we put all this emphasis outside of ourselves, rather than coming back here and checking in with ourselves to say, what do I really think? What do I What do I care about? What? What matters to me? And what does bring me joy? What? I'm a human being just like the next person, and so I deserve to have that time for myself. I give it to others, why not take it for myself, even if it's just 15 minutes. And I think that if we, if we could take a little break, you know, from the from the social media that will help us allow ourselves really to be that reflective human that we need to be in order to know what we love, what and what brings us joy and what matters to us. If we don't ask those questions of ourselves. We can't really know them. We're just taking in everybody else's opinion. And kind of going along the flow of things rather than going wait a second. Do I want that to I care about that? So

Greg Voisen
you said Michelle about it not being an easy route. And it isn't an M for all my listeners. Look, the three of us sitting here. It hasn't always just been about us being joyous and happy all the time. And everything's been primrose and whatever. But the reality is, you know, self-love, you know, is so important. And, you know, I keep thinking about kind of as you were speaking, you know, you look at maniacal Mr. Putin if he'd only had a few more hugs during his lifetime, maybe he wouldn't be as maniacal and crazy as he is. You know, I think there's a lot of people that have deep wounds. And any of you listening out there who have these wounds that you're trying to heal that are have been there for a long time. And I'm not your psychologist, although I am. I am a psychologist, I would say that you that you really start to look at those and journal about them and, and get in community and talk to people and try and work through them. I think we'd have less of what happened yesterday, if people were doing these kinds of things. And you know, you speak about forgiveness, both of ourselves and others as a way to bring more joy into our lives. I actually heard one of the women from Buffalo, a black woman say she didn't have it in her heart. I think it was her sister that got killed in the grocery store to say she's forgiven it, but she knew she had to forgive him. She even said on the news. I know I have to forgive this other soul. And I thought, man What bravery what? Just amazing thing to be able to know right now it's hard for me to forgive, but I'm going to forgive. What's the best way of letting go of our grievances and angers and you speak about this in your guidebook and on card 14, titled, forgive. I think this is a big thing in the world right now. Because we can't cross the divide unless we forgive. Because everybody looks as this divisiveness between people, whether it's Republican, Democrat, Independent, whatever party they're in, or whatever they voted for and ever, and they're like, I'm right, you're wrong. You know, and I think it was the old. I want to say this and forget it. Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus, you know? And it was like in I just did one called the Go Giver marriage with a man is interesting what they all say. And I think we all know this, but do we really know it? Because the ego gets in the way. It's like, would you rather be in love? Or would you rather be right? And that's what that's what John? What was his name? John, something John Gray, John Gray used to say, would you rather be in love? Or would you rather be right? And that applies? Yeah, that applies to both the relationship and your relationship with yourself. Because it's about self-love as well. So if you guys would talk about this forgive card. This is a big one.

Michelle Burke
Yeah, I agree. It's, it's one of the deepest cards we have in the deck, I will, I will say that it's forgiveness has so many benefits. And if we have to start with forgiving ourselves, we, we hold on to old stuff that we did, regrets things we said or did in our past that it's like, literally like a weight that we've carried around with us, most of us. And if we have that weight, that weight shows up in the way that we respond. And I get triggered by other things and other people and what's going on in the world. And oftentimes, I always my I can't remember who said it, but it's not about the chicken. You know, like when we get into an argument with somebody, it's never about usually what we're actually arguing about, it's usually has to do with something that happened, who knows how long ago that we didn't resolve. And so we can resolve within ourselves first, and forgive ourselves, then it makes it easier. And I'm not saying it's easy to do this, because I've struggled with it, I've had various moments in time, and I still work on one thing that I'm still, I still feel like I have a thread left of, of feeling like I didn't do enough for my dad. And I know intellectually I did. But I it's, it's, it's what matters is what's in here. And so being able to really get to that place and allow yourself to forgive yourself is a great place to start. And then being able to do that with others and, and other situations. Because the truth of the matter is, it's gone. It is in most of these situations are already in the past. So why we're holding on to it isn't helping us, it isn't serving us and it isn't helping anybody that we interact with it, that cortisol that we were talking about earlier, when we're in resentment mode, or anger, or all of that are coded cortisol is off the charts. And that doesn't help us make healthy choices for ourselves or for others. And so we're not doing ourselves any favors by carrying that around with us. And I

Greg Voisen
think people love harmony, the people just want, they want respect. You can still disagree. But they still want respect. And if you can respect somebody, it doesn't mean you can't disagree with their point of view. But you can still respect them. You literally can create, in this estimation, a place for forgiveness.

Lilamani de Silva
Writing forgiveness, definitely. Yeah, it's not I mean, there is respect you have respect for yourself, first and foremost, probably. And then from there, you have respect for others. So you can treat people the way you want to be treated. And I think acceptance of a situation which you no longer have much control over is probably the best way. You know, it's about letting that go. Because you know yourself like Michelle just said, it's really not serving you. It's not it's not doing you any good. So the sooner you can move on from that particular scenario, the better. And it's hard. You can write it down. You can send someone a letter, and you can burn you can you write it down and then burn it so that it's gone. You know, it's out, it's gone. It's forever gone. There are different methods of how you might go about doing it, but really the only way you can move on and have a better life. Like that lady said, you were just mentioning, she knows that the only way she can move on and have a better life is to actually forget.

Greg Voisen
You know, and I think no matter what you do, whether it's these Joy Cards, or it's journaling, or it's a meditation or a mantra, or it's something you're repeating yourself, I think the key is, all of these are tools to make it easier to make the path easier, and I think, again, the Joy Cards are about easing you into a position to have an acceptance of joy in your life, if you're not finding much joy there right now. And, and you, you know, it's like fire starter, you have to spark somewhere, you know, you've got a spark somewhere. So why not spark with a lovely card on your desk, place to start, you know, or if you're into journaling, and you don't want to buy these cards, they're not very expensive, you can get them on Amazon, including the guide book, I think for like $18, or whatever it is, we're going to put a link to that. Now ladies, we're going to leave the listeners with three takeaways from working with the Joy Cards. And we will also put the link to this book as well. The 15-minute pause using even though you can say we didn't speak about it, we really did speak about it, we've been speaking about it for the last 45 minutes, because every one of these Joy Cards is about taking a pause. It's about actually getting to a point of understanding what it is action you can choose to take to change your situation. Give us three takeaways from the Joy Cards and the benefits of the 15 Minute pause, both emotionally physically and spiritually.

Lilamani de Silva
I think for me, I would I would start with you have a choice. Everyone has a choice. And joy is a choice. That is a takeaway from me.

Michelle Burke
Yeah, yeah, I would like to add to that, I think that's the first step. And I also think that joy, joy is our right? We have we have a right as human beings to feel joy filled. And we need to take ownership of that, and take a step towards that each and every day. And it doesn't take much time. And it doesn't take millions of dollars. And it feels good. It feels good inside when you feel joy. And that joy is contagious. And so why not feel joy. If you have kids out there, I'm telling you, as parents, you need to go out and feel joyful. Because that joy is contagious to your kids. It's like a little kid, you know, opening up a gift for their birthday, or seeing the big birthday cake or a cat running around in circles. And they're chasing their tail or whatever. These little simple things actually bring a smile to your face. They can make you laugh out loud, and you just want to mark those moments. I mean, that's the time to go yes. And have more of those moments. That's what I say be a joy spreader.

Greg Voisen
Well for all of you, for all of you who are watching this on YouTube versus listening to it. What I'd like you to do is look at our faces. Look at Michelle's face, she's got a smile, look at Lilamani and look at mine. Because a question around smiling, there's a card about smiling. You if you walk into a room with a smile, or at least that smile attitude. It's contagious. So thank you both for being on inside personal growth spending the last 45 minutes or so engaging with me and my listeners. For all my listeners, we'll put a link to the Joy Cards which you can get from Amazon, we'll put a link to the energy catalyst Group website, we will put a link also to the book The 15-minute pause which is by both of them as well, I'd say get this as a bundled package, put it together, you might as well have this pause, do your Joy Cards, and you're in for a good time and just enjoy it and then spread it as they said, you know, push it around to the rest of the world. Everybody needs more people that are having fun and having joy in their life around them. Because we have so much we could say that we're not so joyful about but the reality is, we live in amazing times. I think people look at it even though we've got all this stuff happening. I'm trying to put yourself raise yourself above the cloud and look into the stratosphere of what is available. And there's so much available to us and you two ladies have been a blessing to be available to my listeners during this last 45 minutes. Thank you both. Namaste.

Lilamani de Silva
And can I just say in case they want to have a joy, we do have a joy retreat, potentially coming.

Greg Voisen
I saw that on your website is that going to be, I hope a physical retreat, you can do those now. Now, you know the only thing I will say, well, mommy, the website is beautiful. There's four of you walking at the joy retreat, and there isn't one man in that picture. Well, welcome. Welcome, anytime. So maybe you want maybe you want to add some guy in there. Thank you guys.

Michelle Burke
Thank you. Great. Thanks for having us.

Lilamani de Silva
You're welcome. Thank you very much.