Greg Voisen
Welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. This is Greg Voisen, the host of Inside Personal Growth. And I have Chuck Kocher here, and Chuck is the CEO of the “The Transformation Company”. And he's in Colorado Springs, Denver area. And I met him through Carrie Scoggins, who wrote a book on ownership from Durango about a company that she turned into an actually became an ESOP. And we started talking. And somehow Chuck's name came up. And then chuck has worked with Vern Harnish. For everybody that knows scaling. And Vern is going to be on an episode of Inside personal growth coming up here. Good day, Chuck, how you doing?

Chuck Kocher
Greg? I'm doing fantastic. Great to connect again. And looking forward to our discussion.

Greg Voisen
Well, I'm too as well. And I love the statement you have by Marshall Goldsmith.

Chuck Kocher
Yeah.

Greg Voisen
Got you here won't get you there. And that's what we're going to talk about, is usually you hit the glass ceiling when you're in business. And Chuck's gonna share with us some of his experiences and how he's helped people transform their business, and I'm gonna let him know a bit about you. The transformation company, as I said, is based in Colorado, it's committed to helping businesses achieve extraordinary success and sustainable transformation. Chuck's not only a high caliber business coach, but also a renowned speaker and expert in scaling up companies. He has a distinguished track record of working with companies across various industries to propel them to new levels of financial success and operational excellence. With a passion for driving radical change. Chuck employs cutting edge strategies and tools to help leaders and their teams exceed their business goals. And today, we're going to delve into the methods, his experiences and how he's helped transform the landscape for numerous businesses. Well, Chuck, it's a pleasure having you on inside personal growth. And I know that my listeners are going to learn a lot from you. But I'd like for you to share a bit about your background and what inspired you to start that transformation company. How did you get into this gig? And what is it that you like about it? Oh, my. Well,

Chuck Kocher
Back in the day, I worked in corporate for 20 years, it had a couple of tenure runs with several companies. But as I progressed through each of the companies, and the second company, I started getting a bug about half of my own business. And my wife and I both were in corporate jobs. And, you know, we got married later, we started a family later. And you know, you get the you feel like you have the handcuffs on. Once you once you have a nice income, you know, on the corporate side. And at some point late in the 90s. It really it really got to a point my wife said to me, hey, Chuck, you know, you're gonna become unemployable if you don't start your own business. And, and I'll still work for a couple more years, but I want to be home with the kids and she was an executive in HR, when she said that to me, and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go for it. So timing is everything. Think of the tech crash at 911. That's when I started my coaching practice. Way back in the early 2000s. I looked at starting a business from scratch. I looked at buying a business, acquiring a business, and then I stumbled on business coaching. So I'm not gonna, you know, it was one of those days I got an email business coach. I said, Oh, that looks cool, because everybody coming out of corporate usually goes into business consulting. And once I started looking at the coaching, then I saw the premise of it which is teaching people how to do things and transferring the IP, you know, so they know how to do it, and really coaching them through that process. I like that I played sports coach, my son, and every sport he, he played. And he did scouts, all kinds of cool things. And I was coached, you know, by the executive coach in the 90s, from the center of creative leadership, which is like, renowned for leadership development. So I stumbled on coaching, I bought a franchise model out of Australia called Action coach, which gave me an opportunity to learn what a coach is, how to coach, how to market how to sell within that model. And that model was developed by Brad Sugars, who's now been up based in Vegas. And he's probably got over I think it's over 1200 coaches now, globally. And so I was one of the first US coaches that come in. And what I loved about what Brad had for me at that time, is actually learned how to coach versus hanging a shingle up and saying, I'm a coach, or a consultant. And so that's how I got started. And probably about three or four years in, I realized a couple of things. One, I needed more, I needed more. And one of my coaches said, Chuck read the Rockefeller habits, which was Verne's first book, but he's got a revised edition now that just hit the market 20th Anniversary Edition, I read it and I go, wow, this stuff is going to take me to another level, because I wanted to, I was coaching smaller businesses, then I started graduating the largest small business and mid market, they needed something like that, versus what I had, originally would action, which again, was great stuff loved, love the organization. And so I found Rockefeller habits. And then today, it's called Scaling up, we'll talk a little bit more later about that, and started using it. And then by year four, as a coach, I realized, Greg, that it wasn't just a fluke business, I started or I was going away from corporate, you know, even though I was, but I was it was more I have landed on my life purpose. I know, this is what I was built to do. All the mentors I had in the corporate side, that taught me how to think and build businesses do all kinds of cool things. That's I was being built to be a coach. And I just loved it. I was like, wow, life, purpose, work purpose, you know, business purpose, all unified. So that was 2004.

Greg Voisen
And transformation company that you've developed now is, you know, it's fundamentally around those fundamental, what I want to call them philosophies around building a business, growing a business, transforming a business. And I want to ask you a couple of questions here, because, you know, fundamentally, the philosophy about business transformation, what makes you different from general business, coaching or consulting Now you said coaching, and I get that, that words used all over the place. But oftentimes, our experiential learnings are the best places that we get, even when we have a coach, there's nothing wrong with coaches, we all need to have a coach. But usually, for businesses, whether they're small, medium, or large, it's about the experiences that they have that actually give them that level to break through to the next level. Yeah, yeah. And so your your company is really different. Because you're saying we're going to transform the culture, the people that we're going to transform, we're not just going to coach, we're going to actually help create transformation. And we aren't consultants, we're, we're resultants. So you're, I say, got a guy said, Hey, I'm a result. Yeah, what I do, yeah, yeah.

Chuck Kocher
Yep. Yep. Yeah. So when you think of that, you know, the, the context of transformation. One is, most people don't know, like, they'll say to me, Chuck, I've got a business that's grown beyond me. You know, I was cool when I ran up to 10 million, but now it's 25 million. I don't know what to do. You know, it's kind of grown beyond me. So that's an opportunity for transformation, you know, versus just saying, okay, sell it, get out of it, you know, hire somebody to run it for you, you know, type of approach. So it's really about running into those challenges, or those opportunities, either one, right and going, I don't know how I'm gonna get to that next place. And usually, the best way to get there is to think about think differently. You know, I love that advertising from Apple back in the late 90s. The people that really make a difference, think differently. So as a coach, and which transformation, I'm going to coach my client to think differently. You know, because whatever that whatever got them here isn't gonna get them there like it says right from Marshall Goldsmith and walk them take them through that path of transformation.

Greg Voisen
You know, that's so true. I just had Guy Kawasaki on here. Oh guide guy did an interview just a week before last we published. And you know, in 1997 When you say that Apple was supposed to fall under because of what Windows and Microsoft. And they started that think different campaign. But here's the important thing about that think different campaign. You know, they took Amelia Earhart and Einstein and they said, Hey, if you want to be somebody different, you have to have a Macintosh. Macintosh is what's going to make the difference. And and as only Guy Kawasaki can do. He was sitting in the boardroom with Steve Jobs. This is a great story. And there was the commercial that was created by Apple to start running. And the ad agency guys said to Steve, Hey, Steve, I have two copies of these. I'm going to give one to you. And I'm going to give one to guy guys sitting there. And Steve says to the ad agency guy, no, you're going to give both to me. And guy's not going to get one. And guy turned to Steve and said, Hey, Steve, and you're gonna love this story. What's wrong? Don't you trust me? Steve turned to Guy Kawasaki and said, No, guy. I don't trust you. And guy turned to Steve, and said, That's okay, Steve, I don't trust you. And the reality is he said it cost him 10s of millions of dollars. No, that reality that story was here's the point. Sometimes in our life, no matter what business it is, are life things. We have to stand up for ourselves. And we have to let other people know. And actually Steve, job respected people that actually stood up and spoke for themselves. Okay, yep. And so this is where we come to your strategies. A lot of times when you're in a boardroom, it's strategic? Could you describe one or two key strategies you commonly employ when working with a new client aiming to scale their operations? What are some of the things that you do that other people maybe don't do? Or if they do, do you do it differently? Well,

Chuck Kocher
yeah, we just might do in a different level. And, and again, every company's gonna be a little bit different, because they're going to be in a certain place, if you will. But there's some tenants that you have to work on. People, you know, the people part, and the cultural part are massive. And Colin says, People First well, you can have great people. But if you don't have strategy, it doesn't work. So you got to still work on the people saw it. And I find most organizations like get get that they may, may have an idea of what that is. But we teach that in, we coach that in, and we look to build a winning culture, and identify the culture because a lot of companies just kind of happen, culture happens, right? You that you're gonna have a culture, but is it defined? Does it have the behaviors nailed down? And is the best place to work? What is that with the vision to build that? So culture is everything? It's the foundation? Next thing is people? Do you have the right talent? You know, do you have a players? Or do you have a bunch of friends and buddies that you started with and family and whatever it might be, but they're not necessarily a players. And if you're going to scale, you have to have a predominance of a players at the top of the organization. No matter how big you are, you got to scale that to and Steve Jobs, by the way, talked about the value of an A plus player. That's what he that's how his brain worked. If I have 10, A pluses equals 30 Bees, if you will say the Think about that. What's an A player look like? And a player's, it's the performance side, it's the culture side, they live and breathe it, right? And they do the extras. They think for you, they challenge you, they push you, but that's what you want around you want to surround yourself and then the tenant of leadership was in? Are you the leader? You need to be 10 years from now, five years from now, wherever you want to go? And where are you at? What's your lid or limitation? Like I said earlier, and then we work on a leadership piece, because the owner or the partners have to raise their leadership to lift any company to any level that has to come with the package. You cannot grow and scale without developing and working on your leadership and it's a never ending journey. Okay.

Greg Voisen
So what you could do for our listeners is share a success story because stories always are there, where your intervention or your company the transformation company, help Someone else lead to a significant transformation for the client. What's a what's a story you've got that really peaks to the top of your mind? And you're like, Yeah, this is a great one. What would that be?

Chuck Kocher
Well, I've got got a company in Australia, he had seven years ago, met the CEO in a masterclass, I was teaching for Vern, and we struck it off. And he said, I want to I want to scale my company, and I want to build a bunch of other companies. And, and this client, his name is Jake, came to me said, but I don't know how to lead it. I'm not sure what to do with it. But I know that I've got some big dreams, big vision to do, you know, to do that. And so we kind of got together and, you know, now retro forward, he's got five company. So working on the six, he hasn't been working in the business anymore. He's gotten on top of the business where he's just working on a bigger things at the very top of the company. And he actually exited for a period of time while the company is growing. So but back then Jake didn't have the culture nailed down, he had no idea what it was, he built that in, so it's a best place to work. Second thing he did is surround himself with talent. He's got amazing talent and organization. They've got technology that blows away Amazon, and some of their technologies. That's how good these guys are. But Jake said, I've got to lead, because he was the chief technologist, he was the guy that was the smartest guy in the company. So we had to help him develop his team, his leadership, and then put in the rhythms of scaling up and Rockefeller habits, which are daily, weekly, quarterly, monthly, and annual meetings that get built into the company that keeps the company focused in on the right things. And then we got his vision clear about companies,

Greg Voisen
you the transformation company, and you chuck how people build systems and most businesses that are going through a lot of them, you know, whether it's Michael Gerber, who used to talk about this all the time, you know, if you want to take yourself from a small company, you have to have systems procedures in place that can be operationally performed. Now, what are some of the common challenges businesses face when trying to transform? And how do you overcome help them overcome these hurdles? Because there's two or three really big challenges I'm sure you can point out that most businesses are faced with, and what would you say they are? And what are the ways that our listeners could hear from you how to overcome those hurdles?

Chuck Kocher
Yeah, sure. Well, one of them was the people side is getting the right people in and then, you know, at some point, you have to coach up or coach out some of the core leadership, if they're not going to grow with you. So it's leadership, right is always a challenge, and getting the right people on the bus to scale the organization. Next thing is finance. And accounting, we find and I see this and small, very small mid market and even mid market companies, where an accountant or bookkeeper is doing their finances and their 20 $30 million company. And the CEO either understands financials enough to be dangerous, or abdicates that to whoever's helping him with the financials. So teaching in and getting a hold of all the finance and accounting metrics, because you can't drive cash flow, and gross margin, if you don't understand your numbers, you can build the top part revenue and scale on that. But you could be scaling yourself out of business, we literally have seen it with companies that will come into so financial acuity, and then there's clarity of vision and strategy. I mean, you have to have a destination, I don't care if you call it the Northstar, the B hag the big, hairy, audacious goal, as Jim Collins calls it, but you have to have a destination, whether it's five years or 10 years, what's that big thing that's out there, that's gonna stretch you to greatness. And then once you have that, get real clear what it is literally write a book on it or create a creative visual on what the company looks like in that period when you achieve it. And then it comes down to strategy. What are the right strategies that you need to deploy, to differentiate your company, attract the very best talent, move into different markets, maybe acquire other companies? You know, there's so many elements of strategy, it's going to be different for different companies. But those are some of the things we've done to help companies transform. Those

Greg Voisen
are those are great, those are great. The question, I would say, and maybe the listeners have is, you know, a lot of times people get jolted and they get going on a new track, just like you said about your business in Australia than the guy left. How do you help companies make sure that that whatever you're implementing is sustainable and has a long term benefit for them? Because this is something whether you You're a guy who is the co founder that was there not, it has to run, whether he's there or not. And these systems and procedures have to stay in place to keep it sustainable. Right?

Chuck Kocher
Well, the value of any company goes up a magnitude when the CEOs redundant. You know, that's something I've learned over the years. So how do we do that? It's all about discipline and focus. When you think of sports, the very best athletes in the world, whatever sport, it really doesn't matter, have discipline and focus, they don't just get there, when a tournament win the World Series, or the Super Bowl, there's discipline and focus. And so within scaling up, we have those disciplines and focuses that are proven across the globe, cuts across for profit, for profit, nonprofit, we've got things in government that work, it's all about discipline and focus, we bring the framework framework, we teach it in, and it becomes a rhythm within how they run their organization. And that's how you get sustainability not jumping from this bright, shiny object to another, which some people do. They can't sit there not discipline, but the greatest companies in the world have discipline and focus, because not one that got there by luck, or they won the lottery, they have discipline and focus, even Richard Branson, with all the companies that he's had Branson on the branded companies, and the companies that he's ran over the years at discipline.

Greg Voisen
And, and I would add to that, that it's commitment, grit, determination, yeah. Because with that, that's what that's creating. In other words, you got to have a purpose. So everybody's got a purpose, you got a vision, and then the goals come. And then as long as you have the grit and determination, and you don't give up too early, you're going to be a success. Now, a big part of business transformation is, as you said, leadership, we saw Steve Jobs, we talked about him a bit. Maybe some leaders have different personality styles in the way they lead, we see that all the time. But what qualities do you believe are essential for effective leadership in a rapidly growing company? That is the key, we need to know most of my listeners out there are coming from LinkedIn, all the companies are growing, you know, if if they say if you're ripe, You're rotten, you're not growing at this point. Everyone is trying to grow. The question is, what are the qualities of the leaders? I need? You've already mentioned a plus players, I get that. But where would you chuck, they are the essential qualities that I need to have in leadership in my company?

Chuck Kocher
Well, first of all, we'll commitment that we need to you know, as a leader in the 21st century, you have to be authentic, you have to have emotional intelligence, that's a huge quality for leadership, you have to set the bar, you have to be willing to do whatever it takes to example that back into your company. And you have to be able to build connection with the people you work with, whether it's a remote company, or you know, in a brick, brick and mortar. So those are some big things. And then there's accountability, can you and will you hold not just yourself, but others accountable and doing a way where it's not demotivating? If you will, I don't think you need to be a Tony Robbins, I think you have to build, you know, hire people in that have the self drive, you know, and I also think in leadership, you have to always be willing to work on yourself, you have to be humble, you know, be willing to learn from your mistakes. And because if you've arrived as a leader, you'll never get hired into any organizations we work with. We work with people that are growing learning, know, they're on a journey, if you will. So those are some tenants that I think

Greg Voisen
I also would add, you know, and I know you've heard plenty of great speeches, but the Bill Gates's of the world, in this in the Steve Jobs of the world, and the Warren Buffett's of the world have always said that one of their best things that they developed was their intuition. And they followed their intuition. And I'd like to add that, for all those business leaders out there, if you've got a hunch, and that's where this question is going. And you really feel strong about it. Follow it because based on your experience, Chuck, what trends do you see shaping the future business transformation? Because today we live in a world that's dynamic, always on fast paced, lots of changes happening rapidly. Technology is transforming all of us at such a rapid speed. Here you are sitting at an age pretty close to me. What are you going to recommend to people that are growing a business and we see this massive, massive shift and change in almost everything we do from Ai, to you name it, it's out there?

Chuck Kocher
Yeah, well I think you just named a few, right? The technology convergence that's going on everywhere. And in every way shape and fashion. In every industry, there's not one that's not being affected. AI is at the tip of the iceberg. We don't know, we don't know. But we're learning. And companies are starting to deploy it as we speak. You also have generational things going on, with people that you really have to pay attention to. Because think about it, everybody's talking about Gen Z right now, this moment, right? Because that's the younger Gen, but then the alphas are coming up, which are 14, and under another generation right before it. So you have multiple generations at an unprecedented number of them in the workplace today, that want and need different things. So you're gonna have to really, as you, as you sculpt your company, scale your organization, you're going to be aware of that you have to connect with it. You can't just be a hierarchal leader that we had in the previous century, that was built upon military principles from World War One and World War Two. So as you look at the people side, we have unbelievable dynamics going on, you have the remote work. So can you work, can you build a company, I have virtual companies, nobody's in a brick and mortar, other than their own home or work facility, but they're remotely built. And that's a dynamic now you have to pay attention to. The other thing is economics. Lily, by looking at your phone is moment, you know about the economics, not just here, all over the world, and you're affecting things, competition comes from not just local, it's everywhere, and anybody, if you will, and those are some things that are there at play here. But if you're smart, and you differentiate what you have, and you connect into whatever part of that generational change that I talked about, and have something that actually does what it says it does, and you back it up with a big brand promise, you're gonna be successful, you're gonna be very,

Greg Voisen
what advice vice would you have for young entrepreneurs starting out where, you know, what we've just talked about, sometimes seems hard to grasp. It's like a fire hose. And I have no bandwidth. You know, here I am, with all this coming at me. And they see it as opportunity. Yet sometimes they get bogged down with their dream, because there's all these little things that are affecting them psychologically, emotionally, right. And we know that every entrepreneur goes through this, I've been through it, I've started up five or six or seven companies. And we are not always on an even keel emotionally, as a coach, what do you tell people to get through the toughest times in their lives, which is growing a young startup company into something of substance?

Chuck Kocher
Well, I mean, you know, I coach, that the Jenner the Gen Zers, I've got a company in Singapore, their average age is 24. Okay, and they started something up, and they are now scaling like crazy. So, again, it's it goes back to what I said earlier, right? What's your passion? What's your purpose, and purpose today is different, you know, than it was maybe 30 years ago, purpose is about making a difference in society, in a community, you know, and knowing what that is, is always going to give them that line of sight to do what they want to do. Second thing is you have to stay within a we're gonna call it, you know, the guardrails. Once you decide what your strategy is, you can't keep jumping around. And a new company has to do a lot of, you know, they have to go out and explore and test and measure but at some point, you have to lock in on that and go for it. You cannot just randomly, you know, hope it happens. So we advise always, and I advise this all the time, to my younger, I love coaching younger Gen because they think differently than I ever did when I was their age, and I love it. I love it, because they come up with new ideas. They challenge everything, right? But the big, big thing with that is does that challenge turned into something substantial, and a product or solution that's meaningful towards that market that's targeting and a lot of that a lot of people just want to sell it. One guy said to me, Chuck, I'm gonna sell to 6 billion people. I said, No, no, no, that's not a core customer. So locking in with the products and services and that customer and doing it differently. Not like the competition, separating yourself from the competition, that is always going to win in any market. And the companies that do that, always get massive scale, and then go on to great things. And you can see it with all the cool companies we have out there. Now they started just like you said, you know, in a garage or in the basement, right, fine or in a Starbucks. Well,

Greg Voisen
it's great advice and with term that you have, that you've provided the listeners. And so this is a show on personal growth. And everything that you've mentioned so far, is about our willingness to be curious, investigate, and always learning always on always learning. And you know, what I want to find out in this is our wrap up this interview. How has your journey from where you started in corporate, to then coming on with scaling up and meeting, Vern, and going through all the experiences transformed or impacted your own personal growth?

Chuck Kocher
Oh, wow. Well, I mean, I exist to help people be the very best. And that means I have to be my very best. And to see the success that the companies have had, whether it had been sold, handed on to the sixth generation, or the third generation, or to the employees, if you will, or the owner cells, and now they're often Tahiti, exploit, you know, pursuing a new passion. That's why I exist. So when I started, I wasn't sure how that was all going to happen. But over the years, and my continual learning, my mentors that I've been connected to over the years, and still still am, has helped me see things differently. But just knowing that I've made a difference, and I can look and say, wow, look what that company is doing for their community, look what they're doing for their country, you know, if you will, that's all I care about, you know, to give my best, help them be their best, and net. And the best satisfaction, Greg, that I ever get, is that person saying, Chuck, I couldn't have done it without your coaching. I can't thank you enough, you've changed my life, not just my business. And that's why I exist. And I love it. And I'm gonna do it. As long as God lets me.

Greg Voisen
Well, that's a great testament to who you are and what you do. And I want to thank you for being on inside personal growth, sharing some of your stories, some of your wisdom, talking with my listeners about what it is you do. For my listeners, there'll be a link in the show notes. It's called the transformation. company. There, you can learn more about Chuck. You can learn more about his offerings and what he does, you can learn about his integration. Or he I should say his collaboration with Vern Harnish. Chuck, you've been a fantastic guest on the show. Thank you. Thank you for your time, and your inspiration and your energy and your insights about how to scale up a business, how to transform a business, and most importantly, how people can stay inspired, in spite of some of the challenges they're going to face running their businesses. You've been. It's been a pleasure having you on,

Chuck Kocher
Greg, I can't thank you enough was wonderful just to talk about entrepreneurship and scale and stuff like that. And thank you so much for allowing me to come on your podcast.

Greg Voisen
Namaste, my friend. Have a good rest of your day. Cheers, man.

Chuck Kocher
Take care.