Greg Voisen
Welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. This is Greg Voisen, the host of Inside Personal Growth. And joining me just a little bit south of me, I'm in Encinitas. He's in Del Mar, for all of you who don't know are listening. Those are two little coastal cities, just north of San Diego. But I think we're most of my listeners, they know where that is. Good morning to Ken, how you doing?

Dr. Ken Druck
Morning, Greg, so good to be back with you.

Greg Voisen
Well, it's a pleasure having you on Inside Personal Growth again. And it's always a pleasure. There's speaking about you and learning new things, which is what I want my listeners to do today is really, we're going to be speaking about his book. And I don't know, if you have a copy of there, you can hold up. But how we go on is the title of the book. He does have it. There we go. Self-Compassion, Courage and Gratitude on the Path Forward.

Dr. Ken Druck
And I'm gonna click on the top. I saw that. Yeah. Yeah, it'd be a great endorsement.

Greg Voisen
Well, and on top of that, I know she had she lost her husband. So she from colon cancer. And she certainly has been an advocate. And obviously, you as well, you were saying, Tomorrow is the anniversary of your daughter's death in an accident, which happened on March 27th 1996. But I'm gonna let the listeners know about to you that we're going to dig into this, we're really going to take this down to people learning how to become more compassionate with themselves and learning how to, I'm going to say, Have courage and have gratitude, in spite or some of these things that have gone on. And those are big words for people that are dealing with grief. And if there's anybody that can help them, it's you. So, Ken Druck is one of the world's leading experts on grief and resilience, since losing his own daughter, which we said Tomorrow will be an anniversary in a tragic accident. He's worked with families after 911 Sandy Hook, Columbine. And He's dedicated his life to providing roadmaps for getting through life's most daunting and difficult times and navigating its daily ups and downs. Dr. Ken is a bestselling author of several books, and you can go out there we did a podcast with him. In 2012. June on the post, we'll put a link to that. But this book, how we go on self-compassion, courage and gratitude on the path forward was released in 2023. He is the recipient of the prestigious distinguished contribution to psychology Award, a lecturer at UCSD School of Medicine and a noted speaker, conferences, special gatherings and global organizations. And you can pick him up on his website, but you can also go to www how we go on.com How we go on.com, the title of the book, and the other place you can reach him is just at his website, which is kendruck, d-r-u-c-k.com. There you can see about his books, press, his self-care handbook, which is noted there as well. And I think that'd be a good thing for you guys to like, download. So, Ken, without further ado, what I'd like to do is because you start this book off, and actually maybe even you start before it, you give a dedication to your dad, Charles truck. And you have his picture right at the beginning of the book. Yeah, man. I was just curious because I didn't know your dad's story. But maybe look in the lineage of things as we become, you know, wisdom tellers and storytellers. Storytelling is really important. It'd be good to know why you dedicated this book to your dad.

Dr. Ken Druck
Thank you for First of all, seeing that being the kind of guy that that would recognize that and want to take note of it. Because it was extremely important to me my dad passed in 1986 10 years before my daughter passed, and, and yet my relationship with him has deepened my understanding of him my appreciation and gratitude of everything. He was trying to do everything he was trying to impart to his kids. Everything he was doing in the world has only grown and you know, it's we speak about the love that never dies. Well not only never dies, sometimes it can grow, the richness, the understanding the forgiveness, the appreciation We have for people that have passed, or people that are still with us. aging parents, one of two books ago, my book was called raising an aging parent. And it was about the relationship that so many of us are having right now, or have had in recent years with a parent is getting older, we're saying, Well, wait a minute, you're not gonna be here that much longer. My own four year old grandson asked me a couple of months ago, he's a puppy, Are you old?

Greg Voisen
enough that I'm older? And

Dr. Ken Druck
I said, Well, what do you think, you know, it's always best to answer a kid with asking them what they think let's draw them out, rather than trying to give them the answers that we have, and feeling putting pressure on ourselves to have had come up with an answer for everything. And then he said, you know, are you? Are you going to die soon? When are you going to die? You know, because he's learning at four years old, you're beginning to have a sense that not everything goes on your cat, or you see a bird in the street, are you watching a story about somebody who dies. But the story of my father originates? First of all, it's the growing deep appreciation, gratitude that I have for him, that made me want to dedicate the book there. But it's also what he had to go on from had, you know, coming over, he was the first generation he was the youngest of five brothers, the first generation from his parents who came over from Russia, from Ukraine, and, and whose many and his parents and relatives had died in the Holocaust, trying to make their place and make their way in New York. And my father, kind of not knowing what he was good at, or, you know, the schools didn't tell you, they didn't give you a test to say, Hey, you're brilliant. And this, you should go into this. My father had to scramble at a very young age, he was turning the styles at Yankee Stadium, so he could go see Babe Ruth, and Lou Gehrig play baseball. But he and then he went into the Army, he served this country. And he did a great job in the army and learned that he had some leadership qualities and then went out to the world and started his own company, which he ran right up to the last day of his life. And wow, my dad story is an important one of how we go on when, when we were starting in a moment of lostness, of not knowing who we are or what we do well, but gathering slowly gathering and understanding of who we are, and how we can clear the path forward and move forward on that path, to live out our best possible life, which is what he did.

Greg Voisen
You know, it's interesting, the impressions our parents make on us, you know, as, as kids as young children growing up and then young adults, and I was listening to a podcast by Guy Kawasaki with the gal that writes all the books on positive psychology, shorts, all the book on grit, trying to think of her name is Dwight DUAC, I think it is whatever, she's of Asian descent, and her father was a hard driver, follow them all to go to school. And you know, he would it was all about education, education, and his mother, her mother to kind of the role of, you know, the mom, but she really wanted to be an artist. And she really didn't realize she respected her father. But until her father died, and her mother let her art blossom, and really came out and became an artist, she actually rented a whole other place in this old folks home to actually create the art, that just how strong she really was. In Europe, I'd have that right. And, you know, I think sometimes we get mixed signals. Right? And we really don't realize how strong these other people are. But in spite of that, they're they're supporting the whole family. And mothers are so very important. It's not Mother's Day, but it's coming up. Right.

Dr. Ken Druck
So right, such a great way, Greg, number one, we often our parents didn't know how to go about saying things and doing things that their intention was so good. They really wanted to bring out the best in us. Yeah, yet the way they went about it is what ends up getting critiqued. Yeah, come on. Now in a perfect world, you wouldn't have said that to me, or you would have done that or, you know, and, and often they didn't know how to go about their business. So, you know, way back in the day, I wrote a book called How to Talk to your kids. And it was after Columbine, and it was how to talk to your kids about school violence. We were just having the mass shootings, the awakening of violence in our country, unfortunately, and sadly and and and the the Look, people say how do you talk to your kids? I say you don't talk. You listen. Yeah, every good relationship begins with listening. And asking those open ended questions, not open ended the fake questions that are really laced with a message, like, Hey, you do you're gonna wear that jacket? Again? You know, it's like, that's not that's not a real question. That's a question that's a message disguised as a question. But it's asking your kids those open ended questions that allow them to, to consider their options and to and to voice their, their perspective, their ideas, their imagination, everything. And and then when asked, will pop up, or Dad, what do you think, you know, to be able to say, Well, I'm not sure 100%. But what I've been thinking is that this is this is rap, my, my, my daughter, Jenna, who's the beautiful young woman we spoke of earlier in the podcast, who died at age 21. At age four genic came up to me and said that why do we have to die? Like, okay, you're having your first existential moment of angst. And, and kids do not have to answer those and how we start this life. How we go on when, when death is is a concern, our whole lives? Do we spend our life running and fear and dreading and I think I think you know, the how we go on book is really, really my idea of how how do we face into we're all every single person listening to this. And everybody you know, is having a what now moment in their life? Got them? Going? What now? Or what now? And now that I realized that I'm not gonna live forever, that life is a lease deal. What now? Because my marriage is struggling, what now? Because I'm failing, I'm approaching retirement, how do I do this? What now my mom and dad are getting older or what now? My grandkids are doing something I don't like do I say something to my son or daughter? You know, it's whatever your what now moment? Is it changed to challenge a loss and opportunity, you've met the person to your dreams? What now? You know, how am I going to blow this, or you've gotten the job of your dreams, or something's happening in the world that you want to support? What now? So yeah, whether we face into a void, whether we void and deny, or whether we face into that moment, courageously summon the strength and the clarity to face into them and to do something that's going to lead to not only our best possible future, but the best possible future of our kids, our families, our communities, our nation, our world. That defines the quality of our lives. And it defines our character, and whether we're going to leave a legacy of love, or one of chaos and indifference. Well,

Greg Voisen
you, you know your book, and whether you're contemplating your finitude or not, I think as you I'm going to be 70 in July. So what happens is you start thinking about these things, your legacy, your children, your finances, your everything, there's a lot of things that are questioned, and then you start questioning a lot of times, what is it that I'm doing to make a difference? I know one of those things that you speak about is this book emphasizes the importance of self compassion. Because when you start asking those questions, you can actually also start beating up on yourself, well, why did I do this? Or why didn't I do that? Or what could I do? Exactly. And you talk about courage and gratitude that's in the subtitle of the book. Yep. How can individuals cultivate these qualities in themselves, especially in the face of these societal pressures, and often value toughness, and self criticism? Right. So I think it's important for that event, if people get anything out of this interview, and this is all you get, this is the best thing that you could have. Yeah, exactly.

Dr. Ken Druck
And here's the gym. It's so simple, in some way, and so difficult. It's so challenging, because we've been learning to talk to ourselves as though we have our foot on our throat. Many of us have been doing it. We don't even know we do it. It's like, did I just say that to myself? Did I just do that? Did I just not do anything? It's our foot on her throat. And our foot on her throat is impatience. Harsh self criticism, condemnation, self condemnation, Oh, I'm such an idiot. I'm such a jerk. How could you know? It's it's all those things. It's judgment. It's, it's, it's that harshness, and if we can begin to catch ourselves with our foot on our throat, saying and doing things that come from harsh self criticism, self condemnation, blame, and move our hand down to our heart. With our hand on our heart, it's the hand of self compassion, of kindness, of patience, and understanding that we're all a work in progress that things take time. We don't just, there's no quick fix to certain things, to understanding clarity, to tough love, but with kindness, we need to be tough with ourselves sometimes. But let's do it from kindness, not from here, and not choke our nation. This soft growth, it cuts off air, it cuts off possibility. It's cuts off the ability to be compassionate. Because if we start catching ourselves, I let me let me say that again to my soul. You know, instead of how come you don't know that? It's, How could I not know everything all at once? Yeah,

Greg Voisen
well, you you do some you do some great teaching in this book. And one of them is the really simple little techniques. And one of them is the stops introduce the concepts of stops in the moment of profound change or loss. Okay, we all stop anyway, when that happens. The question is, can you discuss the stop that somebody encounters personally or professionally, whether it's career wise, or it's a loss somewhere, and the process of turning it in to start again, because here's where people, actually, I think fear enters the picture. And worry enters the picture. Another doctor from Del Mar, Dr. Steve Berman, you might actually know him, just wrote a book. And it's actually got the four protocols for stopping worry. And I think this is where we get a lot of this worry from, if something happens, and they go, Oh, my gosh, this is going to change my whole life. Well, it's going to change it for the better if you look at it a different way. Talk about the stops and starting again.

Dr. Ken Druck
Stops are our opportunities, often we we experienced them as a threat or a danger. You know, it's like, Oh, my God, everything I'm lost, I feel empty. And emptiness, by the way, is a natural normal experience that we all have. Sometimes we just feel empty, we haven't filled the cup, we've experienced lostness, or emptiness or unknowingness. Or something happens, something that is an unwelcome change, or an unwelcome loss, or an unwelcome challenge. And these things can stop us in our tracks, we get stuck, we get stalled, we get paralyzed with fear or anxiety. And, and it's an if we have our foot on our throat, it gets worse. If we catch ourselves and say, Wait a minute, how am I talking to myself? How am I approaching this? You know, how can I be talking to you this way, we also got a coaches and counselors and therapists, you know, is because we want somebody to slow us down and help us move that foot off our throat and get our hand on a heart because what is a good therapist and a coach? Do they listen and help us understand that what we're feeling isn't the whole picture, that it's what we're feeling our emotional radar system is working, it's kicking up some understanding about we're having a reaction to something. But that's not where it should stop. Let's talk about that reaction. Let's talk about other ways that we could be reacting. Let's talk about the opportunity side, how might facing into this, give me greater clarity about what I really want, helped me make decisions that are difficult, helped me create the future that I want and then to begin to harvest the future that I already have that I'm not harvesting, that I've learned to take it take for granted. So all those things can be can be the opportunity side of what's coming up of what's bubbling up of what surfacing in our lives in those what now moments, and how do we turn them instead of paralyzing a being paralysis being stuck being stalled and criticizing ourselves and beating ourselves up as though we're in a courtroom with an only a prosecuting attorney and waving admonishing finger producing evidence that we're, you know, we're a terrible person, instead of just acting like we're in a courtroom with a with a prosecutor. We're suddenly in a court and had a The courtroom and in the living room, you know, with a jury, a judge, a defense attorney, we're talking to ourselves with kindness, patience, understanding, and, and producing creative solutions to harvest the opportunity of the moment. And learning to do that takes time, especially when we don't even realize that we've been walking around most of our lives like this.

Greg Voisen
Yeah. And I think what do you stay there about the moment it's important, we really only have the moment me whether you're Buddhist or not, you have to learn to appreciate we all set goals for ourselves in life, but they don't always turn out exactly. So we're attached to particular thing happen in a certain way, you've got to let go. And let be and you the aliveness comes back, and you what I say the awareness brings a lot more aliveness. And when you become super aware of what it is you do to yourself, you become a lot more alive, and also much more valuable to the rest of the world, valuable to yourself and the rest of the world. And, you know, your courageous living code is in there. And you develop the code for courageous living. Which aspect of this code do you find most people probably struggle with? And what particular steps can they take to embrace it more fully? Because it takes, you said it now because you've had your hands on your throat, through a good part of this interview, it takes a lot of courage to let go of your throat. Right? And to open up to ask those important questions versus as as we've seen in therapy, right? Well, I'm gonna brush it under the rug, I've just, I don't want to address this can. I'm gonna lay this over here for now, we're going to flip it and folding power

Dr. Ken Druck
out pattern and or in a closet and think my way out of it. Right? Exactly. None of that works. So let me tell you what I do to start every day. I do a walk, I take the dog, my wife runs, she can still run I've got put a lot of miles on my knees, I do a brisk walk couple of miles. And it's a meditation walk. And I invite people to do this with wherever you do it. You could lay in bed and do it. You could turn on soft music and do it you could go for a walk and do it or anything. But I I asked myself several questions, to have that awakening in every day and to and to be on the path, my code of courageous living. First question I asked myself in the morning, and I invite everybody to consider doing this write down your favorite questions. What's weighing most heavily on my heart today? Not for the rest of my life, not the past. Today, what's weighing most heavily on my heart and spend a few minutes there could be what's happening in the world. how we feel about what's happening in our country, being in the middle of an election year. It could be what could be what's happening as we realize that we're turning 70 like us so profoundly and honestly acknowledged. So whatever it is, let it air out. Let yourself be aware of what's weighing most heavily on your heart. Second question. What's making my heart sing today? Today, what's making my heart sing? You know, I get to be with my grandson. I spent the day yesterday. I have twin grandsons. They're four years old, I got to spend the day with one of them. I get to spend today with the other one. We're going to go on an adventure. And he's going to ask me 1000 questions. Bobby, why do we laser this happened? Why is that? What's that? What's he's in that question asking? And I get to be that grandpa that says, What do you think and draws out? What he's thinking gets to know Him? And then we go from there. So and that's what that's what my heart is singing because I am blessed with that kind of an opportunity. What are you blessed with today? What's the what's making your heart sing today? The third question is the promise I make to myself today. The promise today that I make to myself and it could be to continue eating the food that that's going to allow me to maintain this wonderful weight that I've taken up my post get COVID weight or to to stay healthy, or to stay vibrant, maybe it today, I promised that I'm going to finally render that apology to somebody that I need to apologize to. Or the I Love You to somebody that I need to tell that I love whatever it is And the last question might be something like, like you just said before. Today, there's an opportunity to let go of what a little bit more let go of what a little bit more when you're around, what am I lugging around in this life that I need to let go of? What do I need to let go, and people could formulate a lot of other questions that awaken us, before the day even really starts, it's the entry into the day, that awakens us to the greater possibilities of each day, each day that we're not going to get back each day that represents an opportunity to clear that path forward, and move forward into the life that we want to be more of the life that we want to be living with the patience, and the understanding that we're all work in progress, that sometimes things take a while to unwind, right, while to, to cultivate qualities in ourselves. And so for me, the the code of the first step in the code of Living Courageously is honest self assessment. It's moving on that continuum from denial and avoidance, over to the side of opportunity, honest self assessment, being truthful, telling ourselves the truth. Because moving from the truth, into the into our day, into our week, into our lives, into the our relationships, into what's happening in our communities in our country, moving into the truth of that is where the greatest possibilities are. Well,

Greg Voisen
I appreciate those questions. And I would just add one more thing. And that would be that you add a sense of gratitude that you woke up in the morning, and you had the ability to do the things that you're doing today. So gratefulness is a big life if

Dr. Ken Druck
question.

Greg Voisen
Okay, and then audio that I went out. And I did away

Dr. Ken Druck
with things that I that are the gratitude, that swelling in me today to express and to acknowledge. And that's, that's beautiful. And sometimes it's, you know, there can be so many other great questions, everybody's different. So I invite everybody to create the question that really speaks most directly to you to what's happening in your life, in your heart, in your relationships, the opportunities or the threats, to do that risk assessment that that helps all of us make better decisions.

Greg Voisen
Well, and and I would encourage my listeners to this came up for me on Sunday, actually, you know, we often time get just anxious about to do lists. And I said one small little thing is, don't call it a to do list, call it an opportunity list. I love that. So every one of the things that are is on your to do list that you think you have to do today, looked at every one of those as an opportunity, an opportunity to get something out of the way to move something forward. Right, exactly.

Dr. Ken Druck
Are they here? New? That's another question from here. The pressure. It's like, Come on, get that list done. We'll look at those items from last week. What's your problem? All right. Your week, your failure? Yeah. Well, the admonishing all the criticism, the self condemnation that we spend on today, on those on those to do lists, move the question down here. It's like, what's my opportunity? And what? How can I accept that I'm not going to get everything done today that some things will get done tomorrow, right? Things I need? Or the next week or the next week? Some things it's okay to get it done next week, or next month. Right. greatest question for people who are grieving, who are such high achievers, and are used to getting so much done, they've taken a hit, they've suffered a horror, a life changing loss. And they no longer have the luxury of being impatient and demanding with themselves, or pleasing everybody. There's such tight ease, tight please, every everything to everybody else. And instead, they have to really take care of themselves. Because grief is it is an opportunity to learn greater self compassion in the middle of the deepest sorrows. And it's to take care of ourselves. So stopping and saying, You know what, I need to I'll get back to that person in a couple of months. Well, I'll get around to that I need to put that on hold. Or I need to take a sabbatical from that in my life. Because I'm gonna need time to to process the sorrows. These changes. The adjustments I'm going to need to be making in my life and my children are gonna need to Good, or my family is going to need to be making an error.

Greg Voisen
You're saying you're saying to take time for yourself quality time, and I and I think you know what, this whole self discovering growth on this book, this podcast called inside personal growth, we focus on personal growth and wellness and spirituality and business. There's four kinds of genres. But, you know, in how we go on, there's this strong theme of continuous self discovery and growth that you've been talking about it for the last 2530 minutes. And I get that, and you share a recent moment of self discovery or growth. That surprised you, even after all your years of personal growth and development work. Plus you sharing all these in group counseling sessions and counseling sessions has been a great psychologist, doing all the work you've done, the speaking you've done. What's What's Up for Ken?

Dr. Ken Druck
Oh, I have a I, you know, the opportunities in this life are remarkable. And I'm going to give you two quick ones. Number one is one that you're experiencing the awakening into the seventh decade of life. And, and you're and you're suddenly you are 60 years old, or 50 years old, or 40 or 30. I love that. And when did that happen? Or 70 Or 80 are like some friends that I have that are that are in their mid 80s are turning or turning 90 And they're going when did this happen? Where they are? Or what is what how can I awakened to the opportunity if this what now moment in my life so so though that's in general, it's the it's the opportunity of the things that come to mind. Like one of the things that comes to mind when you turn 75 Or when you turn 80? Is the what if question. What have I left a legacy of chaos of I put my house in order. And you're going oh my god, I haven't put my house in order. What? What happens? All these books and these files in this mess? Is clutter in my given my daughter and my wife and my son in law a year of work to unclutter and to figure out what to do with all this stuff? Or am I going to put my house in order. And when we don't know how much time we have, when we get to a certain age, there is an awakening of it's time to put my house in order. So right and that became hiring somebody who was great at uncluttering and getting them to sit with me and go through files, decades and awards and this and that and figure out in three piles what to do, this goes to the trash, this goes to recycle or to where to get used again. And this gets saved as sacred. But for a specific person or group or whatever. And that's number one. Number two is that my mom passed a number of years ago, and a couple of weeks couple. It's actually a month before she passed. I visited her I would she lived in Encinitas at sea crest village. And I know and I would go visit and we'd have lunch once or twice a week and I was visiting her. And I said, Mom, I gotta I gotta go. And she. And she looked at me and she pulled close, closer than she had ever been to me that I can ever remember. And she said, Do you know how much how grateful I am? For you in my life ever since your father died? You been there? At every step when I needed you most. You call me every morning and you say how's my favorite mother? You know, you always thought you weren't you've been such a beloved son. And we both had tears running and, and it was and I and I had to get to an appointment and I'm going because I'm in this very busy time of life. The mom we're going to need to go in 15 minutes and you know, and so on. And we said our goodbyes and I got in that car to drive away.

Dr. Ken Druck
I turned on the radio, Greg. What the hell was I doing turning on the radio?

Dr. Ken Druck
And I turned off the radio and I said What am I doing? Is my receiver broken? I was unable to receive the love that a mother that any son would be so proud and swelling with gratitude to receive that it's I almost don't have space in here to receive the love that somebody just tried to give me. Other tried to give me how many times in my life have I deflected the love that somebody was trying to give me maybe it wasn't wrapped with a certain bow or didn't ever Note with it or it wasn't said in the way that I best received love. Who knows. But have I done this, maybe my receivers broke. So since my mom's passing, which is now a couple of years, I have been working on fixing my receiver. When I give a speech now I realized when I would give a speech, I would run off the stage, I'd say thank you, everybody, you know, and I'd smile and I, we've stayed. Now, I put my hand on my heart. And that's my way of signaling myself, to take that deep breath and to receive the gratitude because I've just poured my heart out for an audience. And they're trying to say thank you to me. And I want to receive that thank you their gratitude. And I do that, and I'm learning how to, with all that I've learned and all that I've done, I'm learning how to receive graciously, the love, the good deeds, the good faith, the goodwill, all the goodnesses the good things that people are doing in the world. You know, he we watch people right now who are trying to assume noble moral leadership in the world. Well, I've started spending a lot more time supporting them. I had a blessed meeting with a guy named Jamie Raskin. You know, one of our incredible visionary leaders, I met Amy Klobuchar cut three, four weeks ago, I think she's a remarkable woman. You know, I've spent time with a guy named Adam Schiff, who's a senator, brilliant, Senator, I think. So I'm expressing appreciation for those people that I believe are creating our visionary leaders who are creating the kind of world that I want my grandkids to grow up and where there's opportunity. And we're treating each other with kindness, not the judgment. And when people Yep, well,

Greg Voisen
with all the divisiveness that's occurred as a result of, you know, instant on media, on social media and everything we've got it, it's, I get that it's easy for any generation to get caught up in to the challenges associated with dealing with that just on a regular basis, because it's everywhere, it's always on, and you you taking time to put your hand over your heart, the reciprocity, is really, really very important. And I'm probably much like you, it's like, you know, with your mother, you were like, ready to move on to the next. So I've got to go to the next I gotta go to the next. And taking that time to reflection. And I said, I asked you what's up for Ken. And I think the big discovery for you is just slowing down. And being able to receive that and understand that for many, many years, people have been giving it to you, but have you actually taken the time to actually have the wonderment, the wonderment of receiving it. And that brings me to this last, last question, burn to wrap up our podcast. You know, every generation, I look at the children behind my kids behind me. And then the generations that that are to come grandchildren, I have two grandchildren. What message do you hope the readers especially the younger ones, are going to take from how we go on to empower them through their own life challenges and their potential losses in life. What do you want to leave these readers with?

Dr. Ken Druck
I want to I want to leave them with the idea that some parts of being a person are difficult, are really hard. There are some sweet parts to this ride, some miracles and gifts and blessings and opportunities. Here we are flying through space. And we're not just in the universe on a planet. Neil deGrasse Tyson has told us now there are universes out Yeah. So we're flying. We're in the middle of this great mystery. But this amazing miracle. We've been given life. We can be conscious. We can look at ourselves in the mirror we can improve ourselves. We can help support the next generation is going to be standing on our shoulders to become the better version of themselves to become more civil. War understanding more Kinder, and more aware that sometimes we turn the fear that we have into othering people to making them have a different race or racism or anti semitism, or misogyny because they're women, or they're men, there are other, the people who are different, have so much more in common with us than is different. And even those people who disagree with who they should you should vote for, for the next president, they still look want the best for their children for their country, for their community, most of them do. And I think I would leave them with the idea that to please treat yourself, you're growing, you're learning, you don't have everything figured out. And maybe you never will. But allow yourself to grow and to ripen, whether you're ripening into your teens. Whether you're like our grant kids, Greg, you're right to childhood, whether you're ripening into your 20s 30s 40s 50s midlife. The later years, you're in the back nine of life, whatever it is, allow yourself and treat yourself with kindness and patience. And understanding because how you treat yourself is how you're going to treat other people and the world around you.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, and I, and I love that title, how we go on, and the courage and gratitude that it takes. Because there are times in our lives, and we're gonna have to stop and reassess things. And you're sad and new found courage. That's right. And you've given people in this book, the opportunity to look at that, no matter what stage of life you're in, it doesn't matter if you're, you know, you're a teenager reading this book, or you're somebody who's 70 or 80 years old reading this book, there's opportunity, everywhere opportunity to look at things from a different perspective, and a different way to view your world. And I think as soon as you open up to the wonderment of that, you open up into a whole new world of being able to say, oh, there is more that I could do. And there's also more that I can receive, or myself, so I feel loved and honored. And whatever it might be that you need. And I think that reciprocity part is really, really, really important. And Ken, I want to thank you for being on inside personal growth, spending time, sharing your knowledge, your wisdom, and your ability to reach people through your spoken language, you're awesome at staring into the camera and getting people to actually pay attention. So for all of you who are listening still to this podcast, go to Ken DRock att.com, or go to how we go on.com either place, you can learn more about this book, more about Ken's work. He also has a foundation for his daughter, you've created an agenda drakh Foundation, right? Still there.

Dr. Ken Druck
It's the foundation is not the gender drug foundation anymore. I have the years I outsourced it to somebody else to raise a million and a half dollars a year. Okay. I'm writing books and meeting people and speaking and helping with different causes. But Greg, I want to before we stop, thank you. Because you are doing I get your information. Every week, I see what you're doing. You are a visionary leader in our community, and in all the places you reach with the quality of the programming that you are, and have been for so many years, providing to all of us and I want to thank you. You're one of the people I would think today. Thank you.

Greg Voisen
Well, there are so many books we can read, right? And I only touch on a very small portion of them. But I hope the books that I touch on, people take the time because the only difference between who you are today is the people you hang around with and what you read. And so if you really want to become a master at your skill, or even have a better life, read more and hang out with better people. And if you're

Dr. Ken Druck
not a reader, you can listen to this bit

Greg Voisen
of head learned audit. That's right. That's right, either either way you could get this content. And I think the key is continual learners love this. And those are the people that listen to this show. So please, go get the book. Can you hold it up again? We'll do we'll kind of end the podcast with that he's got that book. Go get a copy of how we go on self compassion, courage and gratitude for the past. Forward. Dr. Ken Dirac thank you so much.

Dr. Ken Druck
And then by the way, there's there's me and Jack the bag not just the author but got to have the author's dog. That's

Greg Voisen
right Jack is I got two little dogs myself. I'm not leaping right over there. We all love our paths and Windows paths pass on. Hopefully we'll adopt other paths into our I want to show you something quickly.

Dr. Ken Druck
This is the kindest thing that anybody or other pet ah, that is endless. This is this beautiful.

Greg Voisen
That is cool Bean was his

Dr. Ken Druck
name was our dog, the our other boxer that died and sadly, that says that kind.

Greg Voisen
It is really sweet. It's very sweet. Well, you take care of yourself. And Namaste to you. Thank you for being on my show. It's always an honor.