Greg Voisen
Well, welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. This is Greg Voisen, the host of Inside Personal Growth. And on the other end of the line in South Carolina, joining us is Shamini Jain. Is that right? John or John, how to pronounce?

Shamini Jain
Jain is great. Yeah.

Greg Voisen
Okay. PhD, and we're going to be speaking about a new book she has out called Healing Ourselves: Biofield Science and the Future of Health, which is a fascinating book. And there's so much in it, that I know we won't cover it all. So put a link to her website. It's shaman Jan, it's sh AMINIJA i n.com. Please go there. She also has a nonprofit called conscious and helping health healing initiative. And we will put a link to that as well. And I'm sure we're going to be talking about it during the interview. Well, good day to you. Thank you for joining us. How are you doing? Greg?

Shamini Jain
Yeah, it's a beautiful day the sun is shining on the eaves of December here. We're almost at the end of 2023 which is unbelievable. Yeah,

Greg Voisen
We are and I think our listeners might like to know a little bit about your background Sean money she is a doctor obtained a BA degree in neuroscience and brain and behavior at Columbia University. Her MA degree is in Integrative Health Psychology from the University of Arizona and her PhD is in clinical psychology and psycho neuro immunology from San Diego State, my alma mater, UC San Diego joint doctoral program in clinical psychology. She conducted her clinical internship at the VA here in La Jolla, and her postdoctoral fellowship at UCLA is Division of Cancer Prevention, and control research. She received numerous awards for pioneering research in meditation, biofield, healing, and psycho neural immunology. She has been featured in time unit, US News and World Report's CNN and other news media as well. She’s also a member of the evolution evolutionary leaders circle, and serves as a board member, and advisor for several nonprofits and social benefit companies. Beyond her passion for helping foster worldwide health healing movement, her biggest joys are spending time with their beautiful family, singing and surfing. Well. That's a great bio. Actually, I'm so pleased that we had an opportunity to be on the show. And our common link is Bruce Lipton. And Bruce was the one that made the introduction. And it was so pleased that he did because Sean Mooney and I have found so many things in common. And I want to get to the book now. Because the book has, it's just really filled with what I would call kind of cutting-edge information and ways that people can heal. It's everything about who you are, and about what you stand for. And I want to point out to everyone that she did a talk on TEDx on Berkeley, you can look it up. It's a great talk. And I will put a link in the blog to that as well. So you state that our current models of medicine fall short of understanding the depths of human healing potential. Can you speak with the listeners about what you refer to as the integrated path, which is based on sound science evidence? Because, you know, a lot of people out there listening, you got the traditional practices, Western medicine, you've got Eastern philosophies, you've got all these things from, you know, acupuncture to, you know, in your case, yoga, healing meditation. It's not confusing yet at the same time, I'm certain people would like to get your viewpoint.

Shamini Jain
Yeah, absolutely. It's such an important question for our times, because Greg is, you know, we have all been sort of plagued with this idea that it's one or the other this either or thinking and that comes out in many different dimensions, but particularly health where we've been taught for a long time that, you know, diseases outside of us, it's something we can't control. We have to seek medicine outside of us. And sometimes that is true. I mean, that's why we developed antibiotics, they save lives, and that's all really important, but sometimes people have this idea that if I practice yoga, or meditation or acupuncture or I go see an energy healer that's alternative That's not really true either. It's really dependent on our focus. So when we start understanding, and this is what medicine is evolving to thank goodness, what we call whole person health, that integrates our understanding of the physical body and all the beautiful precision medicine that we can use to help support the physical body, whether it's with supplements, whether it's with certain drugs, surgeries, you know, sometimes these things are necessary, but they're not the only thing. And as it turns out, when we work with our minds, and our emotions, and even our energy, our psyche, this is the psyche, part of psychoneuroimmunology. These are really, really powerful ways that we can heal ourselves. So it's really both are true. What we're looking at now with whole person health is that we are the healing agents, we are the ones that are ultimately able to facilitate a healing response in ourselves. And we know that right to a certain degree, we cut ourselves that the wound heals, you know, we have a trauma, we do our work in our work, we can help heal that trauma. So we know this on some sort of intuitive level, the fallacy has been that we'd have to choose, and we don't. So an integrative model of health means one where we take the wisdom from all these ancient global traditions of medicine, because that's what they were and are right, Tibetan Medicine, or your VEDA, Chinese medicine, African medicine, native medicine, they were practicing whole person health from the very beginning, they knew that our environment, our emotions, our diet, our movement, we're all powerful. You know, we're all very powerful in facilitating a healing process. Yeah, so it's not Yeah, I had a conversation with somebody yesterday, who said, you know, I have my daughter's a doctor, and they just get really upset when you talk about meditation as if it's clinical medicine. But here's the truth. The American College of Physicians and the Mayo Clinic, and several other organizations actually recommend as first line treatments for chronic pain, acupuncture, meditation, yoga. So I said, Well, you know, in a sense, these can be considered clinical medicine, because they have real clinical outcomes. It's just, we got so used to this idea that the only thing we could do was take a drug that we forgot about all the other things that we can also do. Well, and

Greg Voisen
I think a lot of our illness stems from, I don't want to, I'll just say this sometimes stinking thinking, you know, I literally, Dr. Steve Berman, who was an emergency room doctor at Scripps for, I don't know, like 2530 years became a hypnotist, he is now my hypnotist. And you know, when you look at the subconscious, there's so much stuff that's being carried there, that we're just auto responding to right where it's, it's just there. I know, this wasn't part of my questions. But I think it's important for people to realize that a lot of what's been programmed in as Bruce Lipton said, the first seven years of your life, you're not going to erase those tapes. But you're basically going to learn to live with them. With all your studies and everything there. What do you what are your thoughts around somebody using a hypnotherapist or something like that?

Shamini Jain
It's a really great question. And I Love Lucy, so much. As you know, I'm deeply grateful to him for introducing us, for example, and I had the pleasure of co teaching with him. Many times, in fact, we're going to be doing a fabulous joint program with him and Anita Moorjani and Gregg Braden and I in in the end of January in Scottsdale. So we have a lot of fun together. And I love everything he says. But and this idea that we're kind of stuck with everything that happened to us in childhood. I'm not really so sure of and I'll tell you why.

Greg Voisen
I'm open to hear. And I'm sure my listeners want to hear too. Yeah,

Shamini Jain
well, first of all, they and I get it because when I was at Columbia, and I talked about this when I was at Columbia as an undergraduate in neuroscience, in the 90s, they were telling us that there was no plasticity or changes in the brain after age seven. Okay, so that's where that idea, you know, and I would I would actually call that stinking thinking itself, because it's actually not true. We, you know, and I remember hearing that in the 90s. And I thought that can't be true. And in my skeptical mind, it was actually skeptical scientific mindset. How do they know that? How do they know the brain doesn't change after age seven. And that just doesn't make sense if you think about how plastic we are and how we adapt to our environment. And in truth, it's not true. So we know that actually neuronal plasticity happens even in adulthood, and it can happen with deep meditation. Certainly, there have been studies recently with psychedelics that are showing this but with profound The changes in consciousness. So here's the thing, we want to distinguish between some terms if you will hear the mind, the subconscious mind, but what drives the mind, it's actually consciousness that can drive the mind. Now the mind can be driven by emotions. And that's where we get into our programs that Bruce he talks about. If we get stuck in our traumas, and we have those repetitive emotions that drive repetitive, kind of a groove of thinking, then we may feel stuck. But the truth is, we can interrupt that pattern and working with the subconscious through things like hypnotherapy. And there many other practices, energy psychology, you know, lots of deep psychotherapy work, even bodywork, somatic release, all of these energy work are ways to dislodge the energetic and mental patterning that makes us feel stuck because of what happened to us in the past. But the data from psycho neuro immunology actually shows us that we can rewire our brain. And if we can rewire our brain, that means we also rewire our body because as you know, our cells are literally dying and being reborn every moment. It's incredible. We're constantly in a state of renewal. All it takes is a shift of consciousness that can then shift the mind to expand and see more than the narrow filter of our trauma. And hypnosis is a great way to do this, you know, and it it's it's amazing. I know a wonderful MD who's you know, in the emergency room, and I met him in San Diego. He's a professor there. He taught me some hypnosis back in the day in graduate school. His presence was amazing, first of all, but I remember how he shared that he would use hypnotherapy in the ER, and he was so successful at it that his patients did not need pain meds when they were going through surgical procedures.

Greg Voisen
The same thing Steve did the guy, the Dr. Steve Berman, Dr. Steve Berman, who is my hypnotherapist when he was in the emergency room, he started hypnotizing. And then he went and got a degree and so on and in it, and literally he quit his practice to practice hypnotherapy.

Shamini Jain
By chance, is he a Chi Gong practitioner?

Greg Voisen
I don't think so. But when you come out, I'll introduce you to him

Shamini Jain
talking about the same person.

Greg Voisen
But you know, last year at this time, I was honored to be invited by Richie Davidson, the Center for Healthy Minds in Wisconsin, who's done all the work with the Dalai Lama. And if you look at it, all the electrodes and everything and the things that we've done on the brain, I was there virtually for two or three days. But I was fascinated with what you just said. Because what Richie Davidson is doing in his labs, their healthy minds Institute, is proving exactly what you're saying. And I think for all my listeners, that's important to note is that your brain and a doctor Kennedy in Switzerland has been doing a ton of work on this as well. So, you know, in your talk at Berkeley that you did for TEDx, you spoke about COVID-19 The great pause, you actually mentioned it in the book as well. The fact that we're all reflecting about how we're living our lives now, which I think it from, if anything great happened from it, is the fact that we're all kind of rebooted, we're looking at the way we we work, were changing the way we work, we're looking at our lifestyles, we're trying to lead healthier lifestyles, which integrates in my mind into body, mind and spirit. How can we better heal what we would refer to as our fractured selves? As you stated in the book, you use the term fractured selves? Actually, I think that's the first time I heard it.

Shamini Jain
Yeah, well, there are a lot of ways that we can think about this in the psychology realm, a lot of when we talk about fractured selves, sometimes people refer to that as parts or, you know, an internal family systems and also on the psychological level. It's about taking all these different aspects of ourselves facets, some people call them archetypes, you know, and bringing those together so that we can become whole. So that means there's a place for my inner child, there's a place for my inner which there's a place for my divine masculine, there's a place for my divine feminine, and I can bring those together to create the wholeness of my psyche and feel very free. But there's another way to explore this. And this is what I say is the best kept secret about health, longevity, and a sense of peace and well being and it's really what I focused on, as you know, in my book and in the TED next talk. And it's something that honestly scientists haven't really talked about very much. It's almost been considered taboo, which is really interesting. And that's what we've kind of collectively referred to as our energy. Right? Well, we in science called the biofield. So when we talk about integrating part of the issue here, Greg is that we've been so focused on just the mind, and thinking that we forgot about the importance of bringing our mind together with our energy. So this is about coming into our bodies, and feeling the sensations in our bodies, the subtle sensations in our bodies, we have, you know, meditation practices that do this. But even more than that, really tapping into subtle awareness of energy and the biofield. Honestly, I feel like scientifically, we really left a lot of healing on the table. Because we haven't explored this dimension of our human capacities, scientifically, and nor have we been broadly teaching it. There are many wonderful teachers that are teaching about healing and the role of energy and energy medicine. And a lot of my work over the last several decades has been to uncover this scientifically. And so as you know, I talk about my research at randomized controlled trials looking at energy healing to relieve fatigue and breast cancer survivors to reduce trauma and active duty military. There are so many new studies now showing that when we work with our energy, whether by ourselves using things like energy psychology practices, or Tai Chi Chi Gong pranayama, which is breath work literally means lifeforce extension, right? We're working with energy in this way. It's incredible how fulfilling it can be. And it unites the mind. So when we talk about re integrating, when we start paying attention to our energy, it's almost you know, we can joke about using the force. But really, that's what it is, it's like we're becoming aware of the force that can shift our relationships. It can help us not feel drained when we're in a social situation. You know, sometimes people walk out of a room feeling drained, and they don't know why. Well guess what, as we develop our subtle awareness and our sense of energy, we can prevent that from happening. Because we understand what's happening from an energy dynamic point of view, we can tap into the energy behind our emotions, sometimes quicker than the mind can respond, because the mind will tend to react, right? So that's the issue. In ancient times, it was said that these things really go together, because the mind was considered to be like a lame Ryder like, and the vital energy or this, you know, subtle energy of vital energy was considered a blind horse. So that is, if you just have unbridled energy, that sort of going all over the place, you know, you may feel really strong, but your energy gets dissipated really quickly. You're not uniting it with your mind. Well, that

Greg Voisen
also brings me to the fact what you're speaking about. And for our listeners, as well, you know, whether you're using color light sound to create this vibratory attunement, or in your case, tai chi, or yoga, or any of these other things. In essence, let's talk a second about the spiritual side. Because all of these are related to you getting connected to a higher source, whatever it for my listeners, like we have all kinds of listeners out there. I had a comment the other day from a lady was talking about the Kabbalah. And somebody wrote into me and said, How did you get my email address? I only believe there is one God, and this is what happens. And I was like, Okay, well, you don't have to listen to the podcast, but kind of thing. But my point is, is that there's so many paths up the mountain. Yeah. To reach the point of your attunement with the one, right with this source and power. And I don't want to leave out the spiritual side, because I think it's a very important Oh,

Shamini Jain
all roads lead to power, the spirit for healing. And there's so many ways that we call it you know, when I've studied healers, from Christian traditions, from modern traditions, ancient traditions, they all say the same thing. First of all, I'm not doing the healing. I'm a conduit for whether they call it universal life, energy, soul, spirit, God, to open the person to their divine source, whatever that is. So this knighting of the mind with the energy literally opens the door for the spiritual force, if you'd like to call it that to realign the body, mind spirit, and facilitate healing all the way to ourselves. So that's what we call whole person health and what we have neglected in medicine and almost shoot as if it wasn't really part of medicine, what's the role of the Spirit and healing? Exactly, you get right to the core of all of these practices. They weren't just longevity practices or performance practices. They're spiritual practices. They exist in every culture. You know, the flavors may be different. But you know, we can include prayer in this because it's a way of getting quiet. It's a way of realigning our energy. It's a way of practicing surrender, releasing the egoic mind. All of these are essential for opening the spiritual dimensions to healing. And as you know, that can be very powerful. My dear friend, Anita Moorjani, has written a beautiful book, which many people may be familiar with called Dying to be me where she was literally on her deathbed of stage four cancer, the doctors telling her family members that she would not live through the night, she had a profound out of body experience near death experience, came back into her body. And within a week or two, all of her tumors were gone. And she continued to live in remission 10 years later, and plus, so the brine out, I know is tremendous. And we barely understand it scientifically, but it is incredibly powerful.

Greg Voisen
Well, it goes back aways, but my eldest son, contracted chronic myelogenous leukemia, and this goes back 20 some plus years ago, and I was reading a book on spontaneous remission. Obviously, as a parent, you're trying anything? Because the doctors were saying, well, we could radiate, you, basically, you know, at that time, there weren't a lot of different things. But then this drug came along, which we're very happy for. But at the same time, his spiritual practice, and his eating habits changed, he became vegan, he changed all kinds of things. He was 21. At the time, he's now 41. And the reality is, I want to relate this to a story you talked about in the book, where it's about Mara, and her diagnosis with brain cancer. And I thought it was a really compelling story, if you could relate the story or listeners, because it's so foundational to what we can often heal our own bodies, right, just like what you're talking about. It was a great story in the book,

Shamini Jain
the role of the biofield, what we've been calling the biofilm, which I'll unpack for anyone who hasn't heard that term, because it's relatively new by scientists, we need to understand the role of the biofield. In cases like mirrors. The biofield is defined as fields of energy and information that guide our health. That's the simple definition. And the more scientific definition is a massless field, not necessarily electromagnetic, that guides the homeo dynamic functioning of a living organism. So those are the fancy words that you know, the scientists like to use. biofield was coined as a term at the National Institutes of Health meeting in the 1990s. It's relevant because when we understand stories like Mira, so Mira is a is I heard about Mira from her father at a dinner party in San Diego. And this fellow had no idea what I did at the time, we were just sitting Indian dinner party and all of a sudden for no reason at all. For a synchronicity reasons, he sat me down at the dinner table and proceeded to tell me the story about his daughter not having any idea what I did, which was that at age two, she developed a brain tumor, no family history, nothing. It was very unexpected. They had brought her into the doctor because she kept vomiting, they thought she had a virus, and then they discovered she had a brain tumor. And that was the reason for her vomiting. Of course, like any parents would, they went and opted for the best of care, they went for surgery and radiation right away, because that was what was recommended. The radiation caused some developmental delays, but the tumor was removed. So it seemed and so they were very grateful. Unfortunately, several months later, the tumor came back. But this time in an area where the doctor said it's going to be really tenuous, if we try to operate here. It's possible, she would also have more developmental delays, that would be very significant. And here, she's only two years old. And they were kind of like, you know, the doctor said, we're not sure what to tell you. Because it's very possible, you know, that the surgery may not be successful, and the radiation will cause all these delays. So they were looking for options. And a friend of theirs at the time said, Listen, I know this sounds crazy, but I know a healer in Tel Aviv. And her story is remarkable. You know, I talk about it more in the book. I do want people to know because I get this question a lot afterward. This particular healer that I'm talking about is no longer with us. She has now passed on the healer was actually a Holocaust survivor herself as a young baby. Found actually at a concentration camp is a whole other story but they decided to try to work with this healer who was in Tel Aviv If they're in San Diego, and the healer says to them, Look, let me explain to you what's going on. Mirrors healing is going to be up to Mira, it's going to be up to her high self. What I'm going to do is help connect with her soul to soul, and work with her energetically. And if mirrors higher self wants this tumor to be removed, then it will happen, I cannot force this. She also gave them advice on how to keep a healthy home environment, you know, things that they could do, you know, nutrition wise and emotionally to just sort of keep Mira spirits in a good place. And that's all really important to for the healing process. So this is what they did. And they weren't taking any other medications or herbs or anything else. They were just following what this healer recommended. And this healer was working with her at a distance like this for several months. While in several months, they went back to the doctor for a checkup, they noticed that Mira seemed to be doing better. And they were shocked because their tumor had shrunk to the size of a dime. And then a few months later had disappeared altogether. And to this day, nobody knows what happened. Right? It's chalked up to the spontaneous remission. Now the beautiful story about Mira is she is a such a beautiful example of the healing process. Because, you know, not only is she alive, she's thriving, she does have developmental delays, right. So she has seizures on many occasions, which, you know, they all have to kind of work with and deal with. But she's not only out there as a leading light for other young people with developmental disabilities, she's now doing pageants. She's actually been in many fashions about 21. Now, I think and she's like traveling all over the country at this point, doing these beautiful pad pageants, fashion pageants, as a young woman with developmental delays and in you know, specially abled, who is just out there as an inspiration for so many she's so well spoken as well. And, you know, it's just a testament to healing isn't always necessarily curing where we're perfect in all capacities, right? It's a journey, and it's a journey to the Spirit. Ultimately, this is mirrors journey, her journey was to heal herself of this cancer tumor, and to be a living embodiment of the healing process and journey and an inspiration for so many, in spite of or perhaps because of her developmental delays that were happened during the cancer process. So it's really a beautiful story. And scientifically, of course, we want to know, how did that happen, is profound and mirrored story isn't the only one I spoke of needed to but there are literally hundreds, if not the 1000s, perhaps millions of others? Well,

Greg Voisen
I believe what you're talking about it hardly. Yeah, what I believe what you're talking about is truly, you know, I, when you look at the Western medicine side, and the eastern side, and the various there's not this opposition, period, but when you take spirituality into this, and in MERIS case, I love what the healer said from Tel Aviv, it's it's mirrors choice. That's what you just said another word. So it's really around our connection with a greater source providing us with this bio energy field that allow us to heal. And I think, you know, look whether people say, Oh, well, that's woowoo, it doesn't matter if you believe it's woowoo or not. The reality is, it's happening, it's happening all over the place, happens all the time. You hear great stories, what you chalk them up to, I don't really know I do know, though, I do some work with La Jolla Institute of immunology. And in the olden days, it just used to be, as you know, we can either radiate or cut. But now we can immunize and I know, you know a lot about this. So the reality is, we've come so far in western medicine, to be able to get rid of these cancers, right. So if you are going to go down some traditional means you ought to consider immunization, because it is happening. It's going to be in the next 10 years, probably at the forefront of science, wouldn't you say?

Shamini Jain
Yes, well, new breakthroughs happening constantly in immunotherapy, which is wonderful. For example, you know, many cancers that we couldn't treat very well where we had to bomb the entire system. Chemotherapy, we're now able to use targeted immunotherapy in conjunction with things like meditation, energy, work, acupuncture, right person, and not necessarily bomb all of our systems. As you know, Greg, I talk about research that I and others have done in cancer showing that energy healing can actually reduce the spread of tumors in the body and these are carefully controlled studies with mice and with this cells, I want to touch on something that I think is really important for our listeners today. And that is that sometimes those of us who are struggling with a chronic illness, whether it's a mental health issue or a physical health issue, however we parse it, the mind and body are connected. When we hear things like it's up to me, it's, you know, it's my divine self, we can feel really empowered. But sometimes people almost feel guilty. And I want to name that they may say, what's wrong with me, then if it's all up to me, why am Why can't I heal myself? Let's address that, because it's really important. First of all, please know that, yes, your healing journey is very much more in your hands than you may have ever imagined. And it doesn't mean that you don't need support on the journey. We're all walking around this world with multiple inputs, whether it's things that we eat, our environment, our job life, our family life, are, you know, and this is where Bootsy and I may differ a little bit, our genetic makeup, which is malleable through epigenetics, we know that right. But we've come in a certain way, I have a certain body type, you have a certain body type, right, so we all have propensities to fall off of balance. And that's okay. When we realize we're out of balance and out of harmony, it's a time for us to understand, Oh, I'm out of balance, I'm out of harmony. And then I can seek and work with all the resources that are at hand to bring me back into balance. Sometimes that means that we want to seek help from others. And here's some really powerful healers. Now, Greg, as you know, in my book, I go over, you know, a pathway for healing, self healing, called the healing keys, and there are many, okay, grounding, feeling, and working with our emotions is a huge one. And I share tips on how to do that energetically, setting our healing intentions for powerful healing. This is where we can kind of clear away conditioning that might get us stuck with the subconscious mind, creating healing rituals and setting healing intentions are really powerful ways to clear the old conditioning in the muck. Opening to connection is huge connection is a huge healer for us, an opening to surrender, surrendering the process, do all of these things, but then ultimately leave it up to source and spirit to handle the details. So these are all healing keys that we can use every day to facilitate a deeper sense of well being harmony, and help heal from a chronic illness. If we have one. So we don't have to go at it alone. Yes, it's up to us. But we're not separate, right. That's the fallacy that we're separate. So I encourage folks that are on the healing journey, to explore these healing keys and, you know, kind of take stock of where your resources are, and work with them. Because we're all in this together.

Greg Voisen
Well, and it's outlined in the book, and I'm gonna hold the book back up again, go get a copy of it. Because really, for people exploring this for the first time, you do a great job of connecting all of that. And you know, we've talked a little about your background, and especially your professional background. We didn't speak anything yet about your parents in the influence they had on you spiritually, with Jan ism. Is that Is that correct? Okay, that's correct. So how would you say your parents influenced you about your spiritual practice, and had an influence on what I would call today, your devotion, your curiosity about spirituality, you're very deep introspective around consciousness, health and healing. Because I found that part of your story to be quite fascinating. And I think for as you just said, a second ago, all the people that are born into the life that they have, some may have a spiritual practice that are that are listening, some maybe atheists that are listening. We don't know out of the 1000s of people who listened to. But I think what we should make a point about is most people who have a spiritual practice and have a community and have a sort of source for support, end up being better off than those that don't. Period. And

Shamini Jain
this is a really important point that you're making. Because again, there's so many paths that lead us back to ourselves, even those who consider ourselves atheist, okay. Some people would call Jainism an atheistic religion, if there's such a thing or some people will call it a philosophy why because we believe the Divine is within us. And so, Jan's typically don't, quote, pray to Gods outside of ourselves, we understand that God is within us. So in that way, it's similar to Buddhism. And there are some differences. For me I feel extremely blessed to have been born into the spiritual tradition of Jainism I consider it my spiritual home, although I do teach a lot of mantra and I have a deep reverence for the divine feminine. So, you know, I do give reverence to the Divine Feminine I teach mantra work as a way to access the divine through vibration and Sonic vibration. And that is all been informed by my spiritual heritage and Jainism too, because we also chant mantra, right? It's really all about the intention. But my family, you know, and just my parents is a living embodiment as best as they can, right of all of us are human, of Jan principles have had a profound influence on me, I grew up here in the Deep South, growing up in a Jan tradition, where a Ahimsa or non violence is our biggest tenant. That's what Chan's are mostly known for a huge influence on Mahatma Gandhi. And then later, Martin Luther King and others, right? Jainism was, and I grew up with all my friends, being Baptist Christian, here in the south. So I would go to church with them, you know. And, you know, of course, there were some that would say, if you don't believe in Jesus, you're going to hell, but again, being around so many Christians and having a deep felt sense of Jesus and His teachings, and his heart and his healing capacities, like what he did, as a healer, and you know, as a divine being, personally, I believe that there are many divine beings on the planet. And Jesus was an incredible God, human, as several have been that have walked on this earth. That's how I view him. It's so wonderful when we can celebrate these spiritual traditions and not feel like we have to be right or own them. And even for those of us who may be atheist, if we have reverence for nature, if we have reverence for each other, if we recognize that we're all part of the fabric, for this universe, this is what we're after in the healing process. Because this is the key, we started talking about mind. Our mind by our conditioned experiences, is limited. So however, we frame coming into what I call that big C consciousness that I talk about in my book, however, we understand that that's the key because it brings us tremendous peace, a sense of connection and an opening to possibilities to create the lives that we want, and that we want to see in the world. So it's never been about my truth is wider than your truth, or you have to believe like me, it's all about reverence for life, including and beyond human life, this great earth that we've been privileged to steward as human beings, the animal kingdom, the rock kingdom, the mineral kingdom, the plant kingdom, you know, from a Shakti perspective, or seeing everything is teeming with life energy. Again, if we choose that path, then connecting life force to life force is such a powerful way to open ourselves to healing possibility.

Greg Voisen
Well, it is, as you say, you know, your parents had a great influence on you. And I'm so grateful that you continued this practice, because without that practice, if you look at all the twists and turns in your life, to go get your degrees to study, study with all these great people, the psycho neuro immunology, you know, the, you are really kind of a light force that's out there spreading this message. And I just want to thank you for that because we need more of it. Now, one of the things you talk about is your experience with Reiki but this also goes into the role. And I want to ask you a question of consciousness and spirituality and healing. And it's hard not to wonder is you say in the book, whether it's just science or placebo effect, right, and you explain this placebo effect for listeners, and I'd like for you to explain it and discuss the he'll H E. A L, which is how's it holistic elements activating lifeforce? I don't know if that acronym is yours, or if it's something is

Shamini Jain
yes, it is. Believe me, there are many sites like lifeforce, right, so that's definitely my own acronym. Yeah.

Greg Voisen
So So I think for our listeners, you were just talking about consciousness, the big C, right. And I think this is a great way to get there because, you know, you talked about, you know, the chakra and and Reiki and the energy connections that are made, but all that's leading to a higher level of consciousness and a higher level of spirituality. Let's face it, these are all interconnected. But I loved your thing that you talked about around the placebo effect. And I think for our listeners be interesting because, you know, obviously most of them know what a placebo is. But go ahead and explain it and explain your acronym.

Shamini Jain
Well, again, part of the issue is that we've been trying to explore and explain placebo with the mind only, and it doesn't work. And here's what we know in a nutshell is, you know, deep I go into this deeply into the book, but we see placebo effects, with physical medicine, with surgery, with acupuncture, with many things, even down to neural firing levels in Parkinson's disease. So what is going on? Well, there are many facets to placebo, our conscious mind which is expectation, or somewhat subconscious mind, which is involved in conditioning, that means that if I had a good experience with acupuncture in the past, the next time I see that acupuncturist, my body mind is already starting to go into a relaxed state, because my subconscious mind in my body knows what to expect, right? There's also the meaning making behind it. There's ritual, there's relationship, all these things are powerful drivers of what we call placebo effects. But since they occur in everything it what is it telling us again? You know, as Joe likes to say, Joe Dispenza, I am the placebo? Well, yes, you are. And it's all consciousness based. Because all of those elements are things that we can work with for our own healing process or relationships, creating our own ritual, understanding the meaning of an illness or the meaning of what it means to get well. Working with our conscious mind, and even the subconscious mind. So we can drive these holistic elements that activate what I call lifeforce or the healing response, right? Some people will call it cellular Genesis, to drive healing. Now, does that mean that energy healing itself is just a placebo? I've done my own randomized controlled trials on this and others. So the question has been all wrong, it's not an either or, again, it's a both. And we can set up the conditions to where if we open ourselves fully, to the possibility of healing, of healing possibilities, through making sure that our minds are open to it, our bodies are relaxed to receive, this is just sort of common sense of creating conditions for healing. But the studies actually show that energy healing is beyond even that. So what we call placebo elements will help us with the receptivity for the healing response, which includes the connection with spirit. And this is why I'm just going to touch on ritual for a minute and its importance in this Greg as it's part of the placebo, right? Well, we call placebo. Ancient cultures understood that rituals weren't just about relaxing the autonomic nervous system, right, which it can do, we can get into a relaxed state, when we get into a ritual, we're getting in a routine. We're conditioning ourselves. But really, on the spiritual level, we're opening to spirit, we're calling in our ancestors to guide in the healing. And Greg, for those who are on social media. I want to invite people to get on my Instagram or Facebook, Dr. Shaman, EJ and page and look at this post that I just posted. As you as I know, we haven't talked about as part of my nonprofit, we're doing a documentary on healing showing the very real effects. And we were recently interviewing accouting, Dara, a wonderful curandera, who's actually based in San Diego. And just for fun, she actually did Olympia or a cleansing with me. Greg, the moment that she called upon my female ancestors, spirits to be there during the cleansing. This was a healing ritual that we were engaged in. It was amazing. My producer actually saw with her naked eye, this beautiful rainbow orb appear. And so she quickly grabbed her phone and took some pictures. And I posted them to just show the power of what ritual can do if opening these dimensions of spirit to assist in the healing process. We are never alone. Right Spirit is guiding us all the way and this picture was just such a beautiful reminder of that. You know, sometimes we forget we don't see, our minds are busy. But Wow. It's amazing what the ancient traditions knew.

Greg Voisen
Would you say that ritual is opening up the field forces in other words, so in other words, it's like Exactly. You know, my my wife is the head of an order called builders of the Athenaeum, which is based in Los Angeles. And they use color light sound, Kabbalah a lot of different things. But my point is, it's all around healing, praying for the healing of the world, the all those kinds of things. So they do a lot of ritual work, right, and the rituals in the preparation for that type of thing. And I think what you're doing is you're setting up the energy field forces for the receptivity for that to occur. by that ritual work, it's almost like a mantra, you know, when you, when you do a mantra before you go into your meditation, you're literally setting yourself up, I think Greg's opinion, a better meditation, meaning a much deeper meditation and meditation where you know whether you get pulsating purple, white out of the top of your head, but for the chakra, to actually have much more energy for you to move more energy through your body. Would you say that's true?

Shamini Jain
Yeah, creating coherence with the energetic field. Right? Yeah. So you do this through ritual. We do it through prayer. We do it through sacred sound making. All of these ways are powerful ways to cohere and collect the energy and oriented toward a common goal, which is healing. And by and by creating that coherence in the field, we're better able to make contact with Spirit to guide in the healing process. And this is something that the ancient traditions have known for so long. And now, as we in western science began to move beyond the mind to explore these dimensions of healing, it will be very exciting to see how we can measure and explore how shifting our energies in these ways can open the force field for healing, as you describe, that

Greg Voisen
is so true. Now, you had the honor of studying with Paul Mills at UCSD and your psycho neuro immunology degree. And you also received an NIH grant National Institute of Health grant, to study biofield healing healing. Now, this book is the subtitle biofield science. What did you learn? I think that's you've talked a lot about what you've learned. But what have you seen in any movement, or acceptance from the traditional fields of medicine, relative to biofield healing, because somewhere in your book, you made a comment. I can't remember exactly where it was, where it has kind of waned lately. And I have a concern for that. Because it's almost like maybe traditional medicine reached out and now it's making a movement back. Where do you see all this going?

Shamini Jain
Well, there's a US perspective, and there's a global perspective. So let's talk about the US perspective. It is nearly impossible to get funding for research with biofield healing practices, like Qigong, Reiki, pranic, healing and so forth. Because we're still steeped in what we call a materialist, reductionist model that I am not more than the physical body consciousness is something that happens in my brain. And that's still the reigning doctrine that's driving a lot of the decisions on what is funded, are researchers, even with these profound studies that I go over in my book, that are showing that energy healers, energy healing in many different traditions, not just one, are showing these effects down to cell changes down to spreads of tumors in the body using carefully controlled mouse studies and over 400 clinical studies that have been done with energy healing, we are told that unless we can show a biologically plausible mechanism for energy healing, they're not interested in funding it. So here you see sort of that old drug model thinking is actually completely erroneous. Look, Greg, nothing follows just one biological mechanism in the body. Basic immunology teaches us that there's a reason why we have all these off label uses for medications. Sometimes we don't even know how drugs work. And then we find out drugs work on a different pathway than what they thought and then they start using it for some other thing. So the idea of one biologically plausible mechanism for things like energy healing doesn't even make any sense. The body is multipronged we call pleiotropic. Many different pathways which healing occurs, not just one. So that's one of the problems. The other problem is quite frankly, that we still don't believe in ourselves. Okay, we still have this idea that it's gotta be outside of this. It's got to be measurable. You know, if I can't measure it, and I can't see it, it's not real. Well, where's the mind? How do you measure the mind? How do you measure emotions, we can measure some emotions. And so what's happening is, a lot of researchers are trying to explore how can we help demonstrate pictures of the biofield? How can we measure the biofield off of the body and there's some of that work being done where we're looking at emitted bio photons because we all emit light. So doing a little bit more careful study exploring the electrical activity, the light activity, just so those who need to be convinced that we have a bio field can see It visualized with their own eyes. And that's, that's noble and important. But for me if these healing approaches, even if we can't directly measure the energy, or having effects on patients, it's got to be integrated into clinical care period, or grade grade. What we've seen with these studies is that there don't appear to be harm. So when we look at in clinical medicine, what we call benefits to harm ratio, the benefits to harm ratio is very high with this. So imagine how wonderful it would be if you went into the ER and you could choose whether you wanted to receive Reiki, acupuncture or a pain medication, or maybe some combination, right? This is what we're striving for at the consciousness and healing initiative is moving the needle in very specific strategic ways to get these healing therapies integrated into healthcare. That's why we share about research. We try to uplevel the quality of research, we are sharing and in production on a wonderful documentary that's sharing real healing stories, interviews with healers, and scientists because we need to get this knowledge out there more broadly for the community. So if the community is wondering, well, what can I do? Guys, you are everything. Because nothing happens without public demand. The more you demand these practices, and the more you can share the evidence, and we have lots of resources for you to share evidence at our website, www dot c h i s ci.is is our nonprofit website. Share this with your doctor share this with you know your fellow physician Friends, let them know that there's really a they're there with the evidence and my book, which has over 600 Peer Reviewed published references. Wow, is it good

Greg Voisen
story, we'll put a link, we'll put a link for our listeners as well. And they can support that. And also the documentary, I know that you still have to complete it. So for all those listening, that are interested, reach out, they're getting in touch with Germany, because this documentary is going to be groundbreaking. I had a question for you. You said you're going in late January to Arizona with a group of your fellow healers. And are you I just curious, because Steve Berman, the guy mentioned is the hypnotherapist is working directly with Dr. Raymond Weil. Are you involved with him in this as well? Because it seems like there's a whole integrative medicine practice that's happening.

Shamini Jain
Yes. It's great. And when they interview him the documentary certainly we've interviewed other incredible leaders in the integrative healing space. Dr. Mimi Guarneri, who you may know in San Diego founder of medicine and, and many other integrative doctors are being interviewed for this documentary so they can share what whole person health looks like. We're interviewing their patients as well. So we can also inspire people to know that there really are dogs out there, getting this done doing this work. And it's tremendous, we want to make it the standard of care. And

Greg Voisen
I want to make a note here, and this isn't a negative note, it's just a fact. Our system today for everyone listening is designed, especially the insurance carriers to wait for people to get sick. They're not doing as much that you're seeing some advancement in it, but not near what we'd like to see for really alternative care, and allowing you to pay for acupuncture, Reiki, or any of these other things, because people, let's face it, our insurance system is a big thing. That's a cog in the wheel, that literally is saying, Hey, this is how doctors get paid. This is our hospitals get paid. This is how the system actually works. And the system is broken. Okay. And it needs to be reworked, okay. And it needs to be reworked. And we need to start paying for the things you're talking about. Because it will help people heal because somewhere along the line, somebody has to get paid. And we don't need more drug manufacturers, pardon me making erroneous kinds of drugs. It's great to make great drugs that do great things. But we have so many of them out there. So as we end this podcast, what I'd like you to do is kind of sum up, someone's listening out there. And they're looking to kind of realize the full potential of their healing. And they're saying, Boy, you guys have talked about a lot. You've talked about Reiki, you've talked about meditation, you've talked about yoga, you've talked about the energy biofield. You've talked about all these things. And I wouldn't say they're confused. They're saying I've heard much of this. But now how do I integrate this into kind of my own life to make a shift? And where would I start? I mean, yeah, you can start by reading the book, but then there's got to be some action taken afterwards. In your estimation, how do they find places to go to do that? I know you have all the references in here? Would it be your website? Yeah, here's

Shamini Jain
the beauty of it. First of all, the last part of the book, The Healing keys will give you a step by step process for self healing every day. Very, very simple practices and exercises there. You know, again, grounding, working with emotions, energetically, setting healing rituals and intentions. Opening to connection and surrendering are fundamental pillars of practices that you can do every day. I cannot stress the importance of community enough. And here's what's really wonderful about the data. You're absolutely right, we've covered a lot of ground, here's what the data tells you. It doesn't matter what your practices, it matters that you have one. So if you feel drawn to yoga, do yoga, if you feel drawn to meditation, do that. But listen to your intuition. Your practice may even shift over time. And that's okay. There are no rules, what is important is that you give yourself half an hour a day, even split up along that it whatever you got to do. Give yourself time every day for a practice to reconnect with your body, mind spirit. And that can also mean being in nature. There are so many ways and all you have to do is choose one that you enjoy. Something that brings you joy, will replenish your spirit reconnect you and motivate you to be on the healing path when you may have to make some changes to your diet and lifestyle. And let's face it, nobody wants to do that. You know, most people don't anyway, unless they're super motivated. I don't know anyone who said, Oh, yeah, I can't wait to cut sugar out off my diet, you know. So pick a practice that you enjoy. We didn't talk about singing today. But that's a huge practice. For me, singing and dancing around the house also counts. It's a way of reinvigorating your energy and reconnecting with your spirit. And I do want to invite people to connect with me and connect with a nonprofit, we have free webinars every month, the First Fridays, generally of every month, you can go to webinars on healing.com webinars on healing.com, we'll let you know about all the wonderful people and things that are coming. Sometimes we're talking science, sometimes we're talking practice, you'll meet a lot of wonderful people in the community. That way, it's totally free. And there's a free replay afterward. So please take advantage of that resource. I do teach quite a bit, as I mentioned, I'll have two or three events actually happening in January, a couple of them in San Diego and one of them in Arizona with dear friends and leading lights and healing. I also teach at retreat centers, including Sivananda, ashram and Esslingen and omega and other places, both nationally and internationally. So please come to an event because when we get together and healing community, it's really incredible the shifts in the energy that can take place. And I hear every day about transformations, whether it's reductions in pain, or, you know, kind of a release of long standing depression. It's amazing what we can do together in a community. So if you feel called to come into a community event, please do whether it's online or in person.

Greg Voisen
Well, we'll have links in our blog to all of this because we're gonna get it all from you. The other thing is, I was just gonna say, many, many years ago, George Leonard, Michael Murphy, George Leonard was on this, those were the founders of that salon. So I go back aways doing these podcasts, and I sat in George's living room. And you just brought up something when you mentioned Escalon, I knew you had taught there. And it was just such a fond memory of sitting with George for almost like three hours doing an interview. It's fascinating, man.

Shamini Jain
It's so funny, because our last our last webinar was on ITP, integral transformative practice with Pamela Kramer, who's the head of ITP. And of course, that's George, George Leonard, George Leonard's work. So how wonderful they brought him out because he's very much in our orbit these days. Well,

Greg Voisen
the ITP is I did a class that he asked me to go to, and I never got involved with it after that one event I did. I think it was in San Rafael, and actually was San Rafael. And the reality was, I felt so fantastic. After that combination of practices in a row. I mean, it is just, you know, the way that ITP is set up. And for those of you who are interested, there's a website for ITP. And we'll put it in the link to this blog as well. If you want to get involved in that. Well, Shawnee a an honor having you on our show, definitely bringing some valuable, what I want to say information about where medicine is going but more importantly about how we play that role. And I want to emphasize to my listeners, if you don't invest in yourself, no one else is. So the reality is, I would say invest in yourself and reading a book Listening to a tape doing meditation, doing yoga, doing tai chi, doing acupuncture, whatever one floats your boat. The point is, is all this work is around your bio energy field, which is literally going to assist you in any healing process. And it's going to most likely help you live longer, and live more healthy, and live into a point where you can continue to contribute to our world in a positive way. And I want to thank you for doing that. Namaste to you. For you being here with our listeners today. It's

Shamini Jain
an honor to be with you and with all the listeners today. I'm wishing everyone well on the healing journey. please be in touch as you'd like. And just Greg, thank you so much for your heart, your light and your wisdom and your company today. I really had fun.

Greg Voisen
Thank you.