Greg Voisen
Welcome back inside personal growth, this is Greg voice in here in Encinitas, California. And joining me from Dallas, Texas, is Mary and Wiebe Davis. This is her book The Sales messenger. But if you look at the little circle, you probably can't see it. But this is the newly revised with six step bonus section on referrals in it. And Mary Anne has been on the show before. And she's such a kind and generous person, she's actually provided me with some information that I can use while doing some of my sales training. So Blessings to you for that. Thank you for that. And I'm going to let our listeners know a little bit more about you. She's the author of this book, and she's the president and founder of peak performance solutions. And you can get to the website at peakperformancesolutions.com. Her company is committed to move individuals to action through training, and advanced learning. And it's in communication skills, it's in sales and sales training. She's an internationally recognized sales and management consultant, and trainer. And she's helped an international blue chip companies list of clients that you can actually see at her website, so you can just go to her website, and you'll see them scrolling across the website. And the bottom line results is her dynamic leadership and expertise. So again, go to www.peakperformancesolutions.com. There, you can learn more about them. And if you put a forward slash Mary hyphen and hyphen Davis, you can learn more about Mary and herself. Well, it's always a pleasure having you on and it's a pleasure having any author who's really at the core level, speaking about how do we improve our communications? How do we be more human with other humans? You know, I think in our world today, it's always on it's always fast, are always moving. And that's a challenge. Can you tell the listeners a bit about your background, what inspired you to write the first book, and now the revised book, and what's different between kind of the two of them, that you wanted people to take the time to actually get this new revised book out?

Mary Anne Davis
Well, thank you, Greg. Then how this gets started, so that actually next year, I'm gonna age myself audience. So next year celebrates the 30th year of my sales and management training company. Prior to that I had a background in life insurance, where I was a very successful career. And that's where I learned the principles of persuasive human laws of communication. And once I started doing sales training, as time went on, in those early years of this business, I realized it was a lost art, it wasn't taught anymore. And people might say sell value over price or say build rapport, but they never gave the concrete steps as hell. So I saw the need for these principles that you and I learned so many years ago. But I also saw a need for sales coaching. And so the book, really in its first iteration, it is designed as a workbook, where you can self coach yourself. The newly revised was just some minor updates. And quite frankly, the newest revision just came out this year. And that is actually what you had in your hand. It's now in Spanish. Our clients are global. We've had requests, we have a multi level marketing company out of Mexico, who was really struggling, looking for some ways to bring sales into their downline. So it is now in Spanish. And with that said, what's going to be different as we were translating it, we realized one of the main characters was a little outdated. In 2010 he was selling was called see me now is this company, virtual, you know, meeting man meeting systems and software. So I am actually working now on a new book from his perspective. Well, long answer there, but I hope that…

Greg Voisen
No, no, no, it's not. I mean, I think look, you approach your book from the fundamentals. And I think those fundamentals whether it was Dale Carnegie sales training course, you know, you and I come from the same background, most of my listeners know, I spent years and life insurance business and I had a big agency. And it's interesting what you learn there, you know, you learn a lot about people, but you learn a lot about selling but you also learn a lot about prospecting, you know, and how to prospect and what's the best ways and the techniques and your book really addresses so many fundamental important things. But I love the way you start the book off, you're telling this story about a networking group, you were wondering whether or not it was worth going because I sat in your same seat as I read that, like, wow, there was so many networking groups I went to, and I was like, Man, this just a waste of time, because no one's ever giving me any leads, because I'm this lone life insurance guy that no one wants to give any leads to, because it's like sticking your dog on somebody. Right? And, and then this, George Meacham sales coach offered to coach three of you from the networking group. And what I found interesting was, is that he did it for free, but he had an expectation agreement. And I think fundamentally, at any level, when somebody shows up with your life and says, Guys, sign here, this is what you'll get from me. And this is what I'll give to you. There's a fundamental there that just kind of like, wow, how refreshing, right? Can you tell us a little bit about that, what you learned from George what the other members learned as well. And I am almost certain this is what launched you in many of the things that you do, because his advice was phenomenal.

Mary Anne Davis
Well, it shows me that it makes me feel good that you really do believe that that is a true story. And that networking group and everything in the book, even the characters is a compilation of people I have met experiences I have had. And so George Melton is actually a man, God rest his soul named jour Bolton. Dr. Moulton was my general agent in the life insurance industry some years ago. And when I came into insurance, I moved to Boston with nothing $500, a car that I couldn't afford, after a few months, one navy blue suit, and a little portable black and white TV. And I was going to fall back on my skills of being a waitress or bartender to bring in extra money while selling insurance. And when he heard me say that he was like, No, you're not going to be talking to people by about their finances, and then you serve them drinks on weekends, it's you just do what I tell you to do. And you will be successful. And I listened as did those agents in my office and all of us, Greg within my first full year business, and every year after I and the others produced it million dollar roundtable for those uninsurance know what that is, consecutively. Every year, we were the number one agency almost every year in the whole company. And we are inducted to the Hall of Fame for our company, etc. So I was blessed with a manager, a leader, a coach who becomes George in the book taking these three characters through the sales process, but it is based on him the lessons he gave me, you are correct. It's not only how I have helped my life in business, and what's let's this business turn the corner to 30 years, so many personal relationships. It's all based on just knowing how to talk to people in a way that opens them up, that they trust you that they confide in you. And you don't go into an argument with them when they our views are different than yours. You know how to manage those objections?

Greg Voisen
Well, you know, we used to talk about in Dale Carnegie, because my mentor, he literally just passed away the person that was my sales manager when I first started. His name was Grant thinning. And about two weeks ago, he passed away was 9395. He had a good long life. But like your manager, he was like rock solid with me. It was interesting, the kind of people in that time that they had his managers running offices and how rock solid they were. And you could depend on him. You could ask him any question. You could talk to him about personal stuff. And it's so important to have a springboard like that, you know, a sounding board. And so, talk with us because one of the things that people that enter any business in is their time management, you work your plan, and you plan your work. And you do your time blocking and you had different in the book, you know, the red, the yellow, the green, the signals, and you know, I have people today even still that are asking me about this strategy of just kind of time blocking. And okay, so maybe people out there have already heard this, but you can never hear it enough. From two people that have used it successfully. Speak to the listeners and the importance of that and what George taught guys.

Mary Anne Davis
Well, I do believe in color coding my time. And that's what I've always learned. There was another great mentors that I learned from called Gary Kinder. There's another man named Mickey Straub out there that that's all he teaches, as well as Markel. Bach is managing your time and activity. So chapter one is dedicated to it. Because left on my own, I am just a doer. So number one is really learning how to plan, not just your activities, but plan for them, use your time wisely. So the color coding and I'm using it now almost 40 years later, if not 40 years later, I personally use two colors of green, green is making money light green is leading to money. And then the color that's not in the book is personal, like when I go for a haircut or dentist appointment or just personal stuff. So I do use two more colors that are outlined in the book. And here's what I'll say, if for any given period of time, let's say three weeks, no more than four, if any other color is outweighing the green, I'm going out of business. So if I can look at my calendar in if today in December or January doesn't have any green on it, I better get some light green activities on there, or I'm going out of business. And this strategy has allowed me to survive. Okay, going age myself, listeners something called Black Monday in the 80s 911 the pandemic and I really have come out of the pandemic strong because is much as the world shut down. And I was home, I forced myself forced myself to do some light green activities. All throughout the pandemic, it started turning into some short webinar, dark green, and literally came out of the pandemic extremely strong. So if for me, if any other colors outweighing the green, I'm going out of business. And that's been my motivator?

Greg Voisen
Well, the colors are really important. I think the colors that you mentioned in the book are probably the ones you want to have. Because green is for go, right? You've got and yellow is the time you spend doing personal work. So I was it. I don't think it matters, what color it really matters is what that color means to you. And as long as you know, there's activities that generate results, like the light green and the green, those are the one you want to have most of your time in. You know, and, and your sales manager taught you. And when I was in Dale Carnegie was attention interest, conviction desire close, right. And that was what we called the sales burger. And I used to teach that sales course. And you call this your sales process. Can you speak with the listeners about the sales process, and the art of engagement as well as the pain problem? Right, the remedy we use the Ben Franklin clothes that have the reason for going forward versus the reasons not. And the remedy, which is part of the sales process. Speak, speak with him because this book is honestly it's a thin little book. Look, you can read this in probably an hour and a half. But it's packed full of fundamentals that I think salespeople forget.

Mary Anne Davis
It is on audio and you asked what the differences between when you and I met in did the podcast in 2010. Those were the terms I used, well, then just you have to find some ways for people to engage, because you know, our attention spans lately with everything coming at us. So I just turned it into five C's, but it's the same as what you just mentioned. And the original book, use that terminology. So I changed it into number one you got to connect, whether it's you know, in a magazine ad, I got to stop you in your tracks or I got to build that rapport. The second one is to create interest. But I'll add a caveat while being interesting because oftentimes salespeople can be a little boring. And the third one is not just create a presentation, but it's about creating a compelling presentation. And the desire I call it the conclusion and I just wanted five C's and concluded tie your presentation with a bow help them digest it. It's a 32nd or less summary of what you just told them. All that stuff is going to do without that desire without that bow. You're giving them too much to think about. And the last C is the close and that should be the absolute easiest part of the sale.

Greg Voisen
If you've done all the other four steps, correct. You know, in my case, you're following all the C's. But yes, again. When somebody says gaining somebody's interest as they're getting their attention, and creating desire, all of those are precursors to that clothes. Right? And sometimes salespeople get ahead of themselves, thinking that they've got an opportunity to slide in the clothes, we used to call them trial closes, right? Because you would, you would trial close and see where it was. And exactly, but I think what is so important here is sales. Personal relationships is really about building and maintaining relationships.

You know, in a lot of big sales takes a long time. You know, you can work on a sale for a year and some really big sales. I had a woman on here that was a head of sales for Microsoft, and some of the things they were selling, were in excess of $100 million. That's right. And she was managing teams of people that were attempting to keep the engagement keep the process moving forward, for a very large sale, can use talk to the listeners, what are some of the key strategies you recommend, for building a strong relationship and lasting connections with clients and customers? Until they actually see the sale? Because a lot of people will, as you know, in our industry going way back, which you probably remember, we used to call them China eggs. And the managers used to ask how long are you going to hang on to that China egg before you let go, meaning it's going to break? Right. And I think a lot of salespeople will hang on to a relationship, thinking that something's going to manifest, but you really do have to determine when.

Mary Anne Davis
Yes, that is a really great point. And so one of the things too, I do want to mention is I believe that the sale happens between step one into connecting with the process that sales 101 People buy, because they like you. Step two, create interest by being interesting. That's where the trust comes in. So the way that I look at step one into in the process, it is where you should be spending most of your time and I call it this dance, and really be able to uncover their needs and their wants, but at the same time building rapport, finding out what their problems and pain are, what is truly keeping them up at night. And so now, there are sales processes back in the original days of lung insurance, it's a one call close, we call it you sat down, you made your presentation they bought or they didn't. But we've applied these techniques that you're seeing to long term sales. We have clients that have used and still use our techniques for selling railcars, which is an extremely long term sale, large donors. So we've applied it to nonprofit, not only for the small donors, but for those million dollar donors. Those are long term. So what do you do in between? It's step one, and step two. Be interesting. Don't just stop by to visit the book even says, visitor nobody has time to visit. That's what our grandparents did. And so bring your customers your prospects, something of value, drop them an article of interest, stop by and maybe drop off a box of something or mail them a box of something, send them something of value, but if I could say anything to listeners, forget about yourself completely.

Focus on them. What's important to them. Greg, there's a client it was a from years ago and then slowly they just kind of worked their way we wrote their sales training, they started doing training the trainers and all that but I still there was not a lot of new business coming in from them. I kept in touch with them. I just would drop them articles of invite them to webinars for free, kept in front of them. It took about seven years. And today they are truly one of my largest clients. There's another one where I last year I got ghosted doesn't happen very often. I do have a high closing ratio one didn't go through. I was ghosted. I know that new term now took me a while to figure out what that one meant. But I was ghosted and out of the blue. I got a call two weeks ago, with an apology saying things got crazy in their work. But what was I doing in between? I was liking this woman's posts on Facebook. I was commenting, I was dropping her things of value. Even though I didn't hear from her out of the blue, she called me with an apology and I now have an engagement to do this training and team building in November with them. So I think it's just, you know, forget about yourself, forget about the sale, and just stay in touch with people.

Greg Voisen
Well, in your slides, you talked about complimenting, I think it's so important that the sincerity of A compliment is so important, regardless of whether or not you're getting the sale or not. Right? You can in sales, I say you can't fake it, you have to be real. And you have to be upfront and real with people. And the reason this show exists, is I think more importantly, I'm going to get to this is my art of asking questions. You know, why is it so important for salespeople to become great at questioning? Because if there was anybody that questioned I've asked you probably seven or eight questions now in the course of the time we've been on, I find the more that I ask questions, and the more people are willing to listen, they'll answer with a very genuine and sincere answer. And then what comes from that is the follow on question. Did I hear you correctly? Right. And the closer you get to understanding what someone's saying, I mean, that's marriage counseling one on one life says to the husband, well, let me reframe that, right. Let me reframe that question. Is that the what I really heard? So talk about questioning, talk about reframing questions, and how you would advise somebody out there today who's either new in sales or seasoned.

Mary Anne Davis
Okay, here's, here's an easy one. Number one, when you're moving between step one and step two, this is where you begin in a conversation away doing your uncovering needs, you can call it fact find discovery, whatever you want to call it.
Anytime you're getting ready to enter into a series of questions, number one, get permission. So we teach the transitional phrase, question. My purpose at this time is to get your answers to a few questions. Do you mind if I ask them? You see, because if I go into the questioning mode, by the time I get to question number four, or five, if I didn't get permission, they're going to shut down, they're going to feel interrogated. That eliminates it. It diffuses it. So if I could give you any advice out there, be sure you're getting permission to before you enter into a series of questions. I know that a lot of places teach open ended and closed ended questions. That's great. We do though teach five levels of questioning. So while they are open ended, and they are closed ended, we also teach this art of receipt, reciprocity and questioning, giving them credit for their intelligence, don't assume they don't know anything. And psychologists do say there's words that resonate with people that say, I respect your opinion. And the words would include, ask them their opinion, their experience, their advice, their help their beliefs, find out what really they believe to be true. And then the thought provokers are like, could it happen that has it ever? Do you know anyone that so really ask some thought provoking? Because the research does show that people are more inclined to make a change, make a decision, or buy a product, if they can internalize it in their mind? Sales 101 selling is not telling. And the other level we teach kind of like smokes out the dominant buying motive, we call them magic questions, which are five senses.

Greg Voisen
I also think when you're asking those questions, you're actually helping paint what we used to call a word picture in their minds, right?

Mary Anne Davis
Yes.

Greg Voisen
And we used to have one question that I remember, was always a good one for me. And I think for the salespeople out there, you would probably agree after you hear it, you would say, if there was a way that I could show you how you could, whatever it is, save a million dollars, you know, cover your children and wife, should something happen to you. You would not want to know about it, wouldn't you? I think the point you would want to know about it, wouldn't you? Now you're talking about a closed in question. There's no way I can say no to that. No, I could if I was stupid, but I'm not going to say I'm not going to say no, right?

Mary Anne Davis
Yes.

Greg Voisen
So I always found those questions to be indicators that somebody was paying attention. And they could actually visualize something right, they could visualize so that's it. Now this brings me to making compelling presentations you speak about outlining the key features and benefits. Most salespeople know this is part of the process. But for some reason, they seem to forget to remind their clients that these benefits and features. Why do you believe this is so because I've seen this happen so many times, it's like they're in a hurry. Even if you have to recircle back and revisit it, I think it's more important.
Mary Anne Davis
It all goes back to I will spend in it could be in a long term sale of mine, it could be in relationship building, it could be when I'm sitting next to somebody on a plane. That to me, your sale and everything about what's going to make the presentation, the desire or the conclusion in the clothes easier is how much time you spend in step one or two, what I find his people do not spend enough time in one or two, either the person feels they're being interrogated. So the salesperson feels they need to rush or quite frankly, salespeople, I see him get too anxious, and want to just get to the presentation way too fast. So if we could calm down, and just spend time in one or two, you see people don't buy your benefits. They don't care about your benefits, what they care is how those benefits, what they mean to them, and how they will benefit to them? How will they make my life easier or reduce my pain? Well, if I don't know enough about that prospect, what keeps them up at night? What challenges what do they believe to be true about the product and service I'm trying to do or offer them? Well, then, in fact, the odds are, it's going to be blah, blah, blah. So the better job I can do step one or two, I'm not just backing up with fact with another fact, I'm saying what that means to you, and the real benefit to you or what that means to you, for example, and I paint that word picture of something they told me in the earlier spot. So to me, that is a template, the presentation is easy. Step one and two is the hardest because you need to be able to manage objections, concerns, complaints in step one, and two, first is waiting for him to come later. So if I were to give salespeople out there any other advice as well as people making just business presentations, selling yourself on an interview, manage, be prepared. And there are transitional statements in the book that help you do this. Make, be prepared to manage, first of all seek out by reframing questions and asking more, seek out those objections concerns complaints in step one and two. So by the time I get to the presentation, it's here it is, here's what it means to you. Let me wrap it with a bow conclude it. Here's the next step. To me, the sale becomes very easy. The presentation should be the easiest part.

Greg Voisen
Well, the facts and benefits. I think that's what you're referring for. But you know, so getting real. One of the biggest fears that anyone has is rejection. And one of the challenges people have is building resilience to rejection. Could you share some tips with salespeople there? On really, how to bounce back from rejection? I know when we were in the insurance business, especially life insurance, if you weren't able to have thick skin and take rejection, you probably didn't make it to the million dollar round table. Okay, yes. Because you are going to get plenty of rejection and talk with them about a positive mindset. How do they overcome this? Because if you tell somebody, Hey, you're going to be in sales, and they go, I don't even like the word sales. I'm not a salesman. But I think if you reframe it, and say that you're helping people find something that's going to solve their pain, or their problem. And you're the solution, man, right? Or woman, that that's the most important thing. And it helps them to kind of overcome the rejection because rejection is going to be part of it. So speak about rejection, positive mindset, and how people can What are some tips they can get from you to overcome that?

Mary Anne Davis
Thank you and Greg, I'm going to speak to some others that may be in our audience today. Number one, I do believe everyone sells the way I describe it is persuading people to your idea, your product or your service. I really in my heart believe everyone sells and if you're not selling your kid, somebody else probably is and I'd rather have them buying into my values my ideas than some kid down the hall. So with that said, there are a lot of job seekers out there and we've written articles, I've spoken to a lot of people in job in transition. And they don't realize that so much of what they're having to do now is sell themselves. So whether you're in sales, you're in Job Transition, or you're looking for that, you know, promotion or wherever you're at in your career. How do you keep that positive mindset is I like to say, turn off the news. It's negative. I do to this day and during the last chapter in the book about is about the positive mindset. I do believe and feeding my brain with positive stuff, whether it's positive affirmations have pulled me out of many of slumps, and I have had them by the way, so positive affirmations, positive music. In 1980, something after Jor Moulton passed, I was asked to be a keynote speaker at our company, first female ever, it was a big deal. And I wasn't selling I lost my office, I went to work and in the basement of my home, which was a beautiful basement, we had those in Boston. And you know, literally, and they told me I wasn't going to be the speaker when September came around. I said, don’t worry, I'll be there. And I put on just music that just inspired me to get up every day. And I did a whole year's worth of production from September to December. And so really find your song, find your affirmations. And I will also say get brilliant at the basics. There are a lot of great podcasts right here on your channel on your program. There's a lot of great authors get brilliant at the basics. I'm not the only one who has these techniques. Dan Pink has a great book. And it's called what? what stampings book now all of a sudden.

Greg Voisen
To Sell Is Human.

Mary Anne Davis
Yeah. That book, Bob Berg. He's got some wonderful books, Jeffrey Gitomer, I mean, there are so many out there and you'll find none of us are teaching different things. We're all teaching the same message. We go about it, I just happen to go about it by the memorization of transitional statements that take you from one spot in the presentation to another seamlessly. And so I focus on that language, but all of us are saying, so be just come hungry. For those who have gone before you have done it who've, you know, gotten through slumps? Because it's probably out there. But were taking too many no’s. Yep, go ahead.

Greg Voisen
Well, no, I say it is you're absolutely right. And if people aren't getting no’s, but you know, with the advent of obviously CRMs have been around since the early 80s. I go back to tell them magic days, all the way to things like HubSpot, but we have technology and this digital age has really transformed the way salespeople work. And this question is really around. Not that not anything negative about the transformation, but the messaging. How can people adapt to the changes and remain successful with the barrage of information, if you said, Oh, we're going to do drip campaign, we're going to do three or four emails on this person, because we're trying to get attention. We're trying to get interest, right. And let's face it, if you're not using that in this world today, you're probably not making it anywhere. Because most people are using it unless you're in the really, really high end. Sales, right. So tell us a little bit about that, how you use it, what you tell salespeople about it, and how you can help our listeners work with it more effectively.

Mary Anne Davis
And that is an area where I'm I know I have a growth area. But if I were to give you some tips, it isn't just about look at me and just I'm posting, put some things of value articles of value. PDF is something that your target audience would find a value become a subject matter expert in the field that you play in. And so I think if you can just stay visible, but do it in the way where you're not just look at me look at me and be giving something of value. The other thing I find now Greg, too, is, you know, I've gone through the technology age where you know, we're before everything was in person. And now one of the things I asked my client, what's the best way to communicate with you? So I don't overuse their text, but I have some clients who will tell me, Hey, if you really need me, just text me. So ask your clients, hey, what's the best way to communicate with you? We also know that they're slammed on a Monday morning. They're just crazy busy. So if you're reaching out on a Monday, the odds are your email, your proposal, whatever it's going to go down. So I try to hold back and really not send important communications till I get till either late Monday or Tuesday during the week.

Greg Voisen
Good advice. And I think you know, your advice regarding social media, there's so many ways that you can be an influencer. You can influence by the posts you make by the posts you comment on, so people, other people see those posts you comment on. And I think it's so important that salespeople understand how to marry this technology successfully into their career. Because there are many salespeople, and especially in the real estate industry, who have really taken up just being a social media influencer, to get that in real estate's one of those. You know, your book covers lessons for sales success, we know that. But we know with sales success, we also can have first business and personal life successes. We also can have challenges because sometimes, when you've sold a lot and made a lot of money, your interest goes in other areas, and you get distracted. How can you help people understand these lessons and apply them, more importantly, kind of to their sales career because sales, and I say personal growth go hand in hand.

Mary Anne Davis
And I believe this is true for all of it. As matter of fact, so much of my work today is outside of sales training. It was so many of the principles we teach in management and leadership is all about human communication. But if I were to give the listeners a couple of tips, it's, I say, selling is not telling. And this is for your personal life, too. If you're telling your kids don't hang around with those kids, it's going to make them want to hang around with them more. So that art of asking questions in a way that opens people up to trust you and get vulnerable is critical. And I also like to say be brilliant at the basics. If you were to meet a professional baseball player, and they said, well, I don't go to spring training, I'm too good for that. Well, they'd probably be kicked off the team. And it to me if a professional salesperson isn't keeping up their skills, getting bookkeeping brilliant at the bay, I learned so much from people who do what I do still, I'm like, oh, I never knew to not to use that word. So really getting brilliant at these fundamentals of human laws of communication. They have stood the test of time, what is taught in that book is from the days of Socrates, some call it the Socratic method of selling. I mean, this stuff is not new, that used to teach it to us. But it's just kind of gone away from professional development in the workplace. So I think the lessons here can be applied to your personal life, your family life, your business life, in so many aspects. So I hope you'll find value in my book is on audio, Greg too.

Greg Voisen
Well, we’ll make certain when we put the link up to Amazon, that we make the link to the audio version, there's a Kindle version, and there's a paperback version as well. Yep. Now, as we wrap this up, obviously, there's lots of lessons I love the stories that you tell. I was reading that really thinking that was you. So you got you caught me. What is one or two takeaways and pieces of advice you'd like listeners to remember from The Sales Messenger as they pursue a career in sales, or some new level of success in sales, as a result of applying the fundamentals that you teach inside The Sales Messenger? Which you and I both know, if you were to list the, I think you were talking about a second ago communication, and right in your home state is Brene. Brown about authenticity. And I always say to people, you know, you don't need to be afraid if you're going to be authentic, authentic, you're gonna have this authenticity. The other thing is, is that autonomy to be able to do what you need to do in sales, which is what they teach you in life insurance selling, hey, nobody was really putting a finger on top of you. They actually wanted you to have the autonomy to build your own kind of entrepreneur, you are an entrepreneurs, which you were in that business. And most people that were successful, understood that you remember the days of Dan Solomon, and the Dan Sullivan that came out of it. And so what I say today is if you were to give people a couple of takeaways about selling anything and what your book teaches, what would those two or three things be?

Mary Anne Davis
There's no such thing is winging it when it comes to communicating, if you're trying to persuade people to your ideas, your products or service to hire you, there's no such thing as winging it. That's why companies hire Corporate Communications Department. And when there's a crisis, they coach them on what to say. So when it comes to leadership, when it comes to moving people, from point A to B, you're trying to get them to change. That's no difference than leading people through change. So even right now currently working with a leadership group, and we're building in storytelling, so that they can with the teams below them, get people to buy into the vision and the direction that they're going in. So there is a structure, there's a method. And so like I said, there's no such thing is winging it. And so just practice, get brilliant at the basics. And if you still are losing, if you're still getting rejection, then it's something in the process. If you're not getting enough appointments, it might be in your messaging to get that appointment. If you're getting through the presentation. And people aren't buying, well. It's either something in step two or step three that's missing. So just get brilliant at those, the basics so that you can begin to self-coached. And I do believe that's what the sales messenger helps people do is become your own coach.

Greg Voisen
Well, if there were some key words, one of the things that you have to have is tenacity, perseverance, authenticity, genuine communication, the ability to listen well, the ability to question effectively, and the ability to build the sales process. And if I was to tell somebody today, those would be my bits of advice is, as we kind of sum up our podcast here is you know, always stay authentic. Always be persistent, as always Be tenacious. Find a way in the door. I remember just give you a really, for the listeners a quick example. I don't know if it's going to happen, but you have to try. So Arnold Schwarzenegger wrote a book called be useful. And it just came out. And he's all over the place. So I was listening to podcasts and Tim Ferriss, and Schwarzenegger was on. Yesterday, I said, I'm going to be tenacious, I wrote through to the PR agency of Penguin Books about, hey, I'd like to have Arnold on the show to talk about his book be useful. And I haven't heard back yet, but you'll never know if you don't put it out there. Okay. So regardless of everything else, it's there. If you look at most of the successful people, they were willing to take a risk. You're never too, you're never beyond the willingness to take that risk. Because you're not gonna look stupid. You're basically just putting it out there. So don't worry about looking stupid. And keep a smile on your face when you did it. Because if you get rejected, there's always another. There's always another one.

Mary Anne Davis
Next!

Greg Voisen
Next. Exactly. Well, Mary Anne, a pleasure having you on for all my listeners, go get a copy of the sales messenger. 10 lessons of sales success in your business and personal life. This is the newly revised edition, as she said, there's an audio book of it as well. That's why because it's thin, you can do an audio book and listen to that, and probably an hour and 15 minutes or so. Blessings to you. Thanks for being on inside percent growth. And thanks for sharing your wisdom and knowledge. And again, the websites. Okay, peak performance solutions, right? Want to make sure I get that right.com Yep, calm. And that's where you're gonna learn out about all of her courses and things she's doing. We'll put a link to Amazon for the book and the audiobook and for the kindle version. So thanks so much, Mary Anne.

Mary Anne Davis
Thank you. Appreciate.