Greg Voisen
Welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. This is Greg Voisen and the host of Inside Personal Growth. And actually just down the street from us is Brian Smith. I live in Encinitas. He lives in Encinitas. We couldn't have a better place in the world to live good.

Brian Smith
Especially not today. It's absolutely gorgeous.

Greg Voisen
And I've known Brian for many years. And his book is called The Birth of a Brand and unlikely startups story of the billion dollar brand, UGG Boots and this is Brian Smith joining us. Brian speaks all over the world. But he was on our show, April 21, 2016, which almost seems like an long, long time ago for me. It's actually seven years ago, and a lot has happened to Brian and I invited him back on the show, again, to share some wisdom but a little bit different wisdom this time, more along the bends of faith and spirituality that he had in business as it took as you can see, both he and I have aged more than we were six years ago. And the reality is, is that he wanted to share that and I'm always open to somebody who wants to go deep with inside themselves to share their story. And, but along with the birth of the brand of Ugg boots, I'm gonna let them know a little bit about you at age 29. He decided that in life and public accounting was not for him. He quit his job and went to California to look for new business ideas, and to surf all the legendary breaks such as Ren con Malibu, Dana Point, and wind and sea right here in La Jolla. He's soon noticed that there was no sheepskin boots in California. Well, how be it at that time when you were 29. But I'm not going to tell people your age now. So he had a friend brought six pairs from Australia to test and I was born. And over the next 17 years, Brian built it into a national brand, and so forth solidified himself as a business expert. The business grew too big for Brian to finance. So he sold it to Decker outdoor sports Corporation. New team built upon the casual comfort theme and through style development, merchandising and great marketing, established as an international fashion brand and boy has it been with sales exceeding $1 billion for each and last five years. In 2000, he founded two story configuration for California schools, he sold his business and company and continues to build California schools to this day. And in 2003. He then patented a new type of precast wall panel incorporating lightweight concrete and steel studs, a breakthrough technology over 100 structures were built prior to economic recession in 2008. And then three year halt and construction set in play those events that would lead to the eventual demise of that company. So you got to have a lot of faith when things like this happened to you along the way and you get downturns. And as Napoleon Hill said, and we've had Don Green on the show, more than once he's executive director of Napoleon Hill Foundation. We've had a lot in Napoleon books that have been profiled on our podcast, Outwitting the Devil, experiences of adversity are among the most fortunate and profitable for all experiences, Brian found this his lessons learned would be valuable to share. And that's what we're going to share today is, hey, what happened with you on that? And Brian, let's start that out. In the breath, preface of your book, you speak about the love for surfing, and how this is affected, where you lived, and where you worked in vacations. What lessons do you learn from surfing, and your passion for that sport that really kind of applied and developed to building a company, and then selling that company and then building another company and having that company? Be a really big challenge for you?

Brian Smith
Yeah, well, that was a little spiritual allegory in the preface, it didn't really relate to the story in the book, except that surfing is just that's probably my most spiritual outlet because you know, when you're out in the waves, number one, you can't control them. Number two, you never know what the tide is. It's whether it's going to be a steep wave or a shallow wave. You got other surfaces you got to deal with which are like competitors to get. Yeah, you have, you know, beautiful glassy windless days which is just is exquisite and then is a windy blown out days. So you, you can't control your environment and, and so it's a metaphor for life really is that all you could do is have an idea which is go surfing, and then encounter whatever comes up and make the best of it. So that was the purpose of that little allegory in my book.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, and it is you know, and you talk about coming to California and then bringing in, you know, pairs of Ugg boots and see how they did. And, you know, in the book, you talk about going up and down the coast, a successful brand new said requires a tremendous amount of perseverance, and resilience. And you spoke about, you know, opening up Yellow Pages and looking for surf shops, and then going into Malibu and all the way down the coast to call these guys. And I remember you speaking before about this, selling the product initially was not met with great acceptance by many of these guys. It's like, hey, this dude's coming in with Ugg boots, and we sell surfboards, and we sell wetsuits. Can you delve into how your faith and spiritual beliefs really provided you with the strength and determination to overcome the challenges you had along the way? Because I remember one story, one of the guys gave me a break. Right? And, you know, so tell us a little bit about that, that journey that you had to get this brand birth?

Brian Smith
Well, I'm gonna backtrack a bit, because it's pretty important to realize that when I, you know, I had studied for 10 years to be an accountant. And I quit the day I graduated, because I hated it. And it was, I just discovered yoga. And that sort of inadvertently led to meditation because you're trying to hold these yoga poses, which I've found in a book, made you breathe really, really heavily. And that sort of got this euphoric thing going, which became meditation. And, and one day, I was just, you know, doing my workout and trying to figure out what am I going to do with my life? Yeah, I'm not going to be an accountant. And I had this aha moment that like, all the big brands are coming out of California. And so I just decided that in there, and this is pure faith, and an inspiration that came to me that I'm gonna go to California because all the big trends are coming out of California. And so like, within weeks, I arrived in Santa Monica. And I had my surfboard in my suitcase, and, and I rented a little house in Santa Monica and I rented at least a Dodge van. And I just started going to Malibu every day to serve because that was like the mecca of my dreams as a little kid in Australia, reading surf magazines, you know, and it was four or five months really before and I was looking at the Wall Street Journal, I was looking at billboards, I was looking at all the different businesses that were there that I might, nothing, you know, and it was one day when I was surfing up at Malibu, it was like November and the wind was chilly and the water was getting cold. And I remember getting out of the surf and I was pulling on my Ugg boots that I brought from Australia. And I just had this incredible set of Goosebumps was like, Oh my God, there's no Ugg boots in America. And wanting to Australians had some sort of sheepskin footwear. And so that was a real inspiration from outside of my body, right? That just landed on me with these goosebumps. And so I looked at my buddy next door, and you know, who was serving with and he said, oh, man, we got to go into business, man, we got to be instant millionaires, right, because I knew how big it was in Australia. And so we organized to buy a couple pairs of samples and brought them in, and Doug was gonna be the salesman. So he went around, and a week later came back with about 150 business cards from every shoe store and no, no orders. And he said, Brian, they tell us went crazy selling sheepskin in California. And I knew that wasn't correct because Australia's climates identical to California. And so we started thinking laterally. Well, how come all my buddies up in Malibu think this is the best idea in the world? And I went, oh my God, so many of them had been to Australia on their surf trips, and bought four or five pairs of boots back for their bodies. And so that caused me to think Well, shit, maybe the surf shops are the answer, because they already understand. And so we started going to the surf shops. And, you know, we walked in and I was really embarrassed because I was an accountant. I wasn't a salesman, and I remember opening up the little bag of samples and the owner of the shop says, oh, boots, they're the best. You know, I've got a pair of those. What are you doing with it? I said, well, we're thinking of importing them into America, oh my god, you guys are gonna make a fortune things in the world, right. And so this happened over and over and over again, all the way down through every surf shop. And so that sort of encouraged us to raise about $20,000 from an investor. And we put an order in for 500 pairs. And as soon as I arrived, we packed up our big selling bags, their big duffel bags full of product and, and went back to the same surf shops. And they, every one of them just went, oh, my God, Brian, well done. But you know, we couldn't sell him in our store, we just sell surfboards and trucks and flip flops, you know. And this happened all the way down the coast and the total orders for the first years. Because, you know, we started in December, so we had one month of sales, the total sales was 28 pairs, and you exactly $1,000. And, boy, if ever there was a need for faith, that was yeah, that was a time, you know, yeah. Because, you know, I was trying to figure out, you know, well, you know, wanting to Australia's only things, what, what's wrong with that is nothing wrong with a product, it must be me. And so that caused me to, like, I had a choice I could give up, but I really couldn't, because I had, you know, 1414 How heavily paid 450 pair 60 pairs left in my bedroom. Right? So I had to keep going. And so I just started, you know, eventually got a few surf shops to carry it. But it was a very demoralizing start. And, you know, years later, I ended up, you know, getting a company with some momentum. And, and eventually, when I wrote my book, which I'll hold up against the birth of a brand, the theme of the book is that you can't give birth to adults, right? You can't give birth to adults. And every day, look at the stock exchange page in the Wall Street Journal, every one of those companies probably started with $1,000 in sales, right? Right. And so every business is the aha moment, like, oh, my God, there's no books in America, then there's the birth, which is the first action is buying six pairs of samples. And then every business just lies there. And it lies there, and it lies there. And that's when most entrepreneurs give up because they think it didn't work, it's not going to work. But an infant can't get up and go to college.

Greg Voisen
Right? Great analogy, good eye on it

Brian Smith
has to be go through that infancy. And eventually I'll start titling, like, you know, people are starting to talk about your products and, you know, magazines or writing articles. And that's really, really cool, because you're getting some traction. And that quickly goes into the youth phase, which is the best of all phases, because you've got consistent orders productions, working sales and marketing is working and administration's working and shipping and warehousing. And you can run a 20 $30 million business in that youth phase. But if it's a really great product or a great service, like OG was, you're going to hit the teenage years. And do recall, when you're a teenager, you want to be at every party on a Saturday night. Right? Right. It's the same in business, you want to be in every major trade show, you want to be in every mass retailer. And if you're not careful, you can just outstrip your ability to provide products for these and you go bankrupt. I've seen so many companies go bankrupt through their success, right? So eventually, the accountants put the controls in and it becomes a mature company. But that theme of you can't give birth to adults is really gonna affect every single entrepreneur. And that's what I go out on the road and speak about now. Because the books been a great roadmap for entrepreneurs who are starting out, and even the ones who have been in business 1015 years because they relate to a lot of the stories and, and I talk about not just the practical solutions to make the business work. But what did I learn and what did I have to encounter internally to, to hold the faith and hold the vision and hold the just the dream of what I remembered years ago and to stick with that? And that's well,

Greg Voisen
it's something that you know, look, you birth this, as you say in the title of the book, and you can't birth an adult matures over time. And that's a great analogy, but most importantly, is you said, you know, you're in Malibu you put your boots on, you had this aha moment. You had this passion brought in the passion is something when you're talking about it in the spiritual world, it's you had a clarity, you had an aha moment a huge, big clarity dump on you going from being uncertain about something to be really certain, but to have a knowing that this is what you are going to do. An A truth. This was the truth. You know, America needed Ugg boots. It's emphasized in the entrepreneur world, how did your deep sense of purpose and alignment with your values contribute to the success of Ugg boots? Because, you know, that's really the bottom line here. What this podcast is really trying to focus on is your spiritual moment, your aha moment, your realization that you had a passion for this that you wanted to bring here. And then your dog had determination to stick it out in spite of all kinds of people saying, Brian, you're crazy. We don't sell Ugg boots in here, we sell surfboards.

Brian Smith
Oh, yeah. Well, the it was an evolution like that set in motion, three years of me hanging in there with no income basically. And just try, like I started advertising the second year, I had three years of summer jobs to keep me going, right? So it wasn't like I made any money from hogs for years. But the second year sales was like about $6,000, I was telling a swap meets and street fairs and, you know, a selling out of the back of my van in the parking lot at Malibu, that was one of the best outlets I had. And so I started advertising and thinking this would make a big difference. And, and the sales went from six to 10. And then so next year, I advertised I was, I was advertising these, these two models, and I post them on the rocks at the beach at wind and sea in Ohio, and perfect hair and perfect clothing and perfect, you know, surf behind them and the sunset. And, and, and I thought, you know, the boots were like the main feature of the photograph, you know, and sales the next year went to 10,000. And so next year, I got better looking models and did the same sort of ads and the sales went to 20. But it should have been way, way more, right. And so I had to look introspectively like, I knew the product was right, it must be something I'm doing. And so this year, I almost gave up because I was working that summer on a golf course. And I decided, I'm just going to get rid of all the products and go out of business. And I remember, you know, in October the first storm hit the coast in California, you know, California that they all think oh my god, it's winter, right? That first storm, and I got home from the golf course and soaking wet and the answering machine at about 2530 messages on it from all the surf shops gone. Hey, Brian, Brian, that's the stores full of people wanting Ugg boots today? I'm out of our boots, can I come down and get some you know, and, you know, that's when I realized I can't even go out of business properly, you know. So I put another big order in from Australia, and I was able to satisfy this demand. And so I was gonna do advertising the next. You know, this coming winter. And I thought, you know, I luckily I could call a buddy of mine who own a surf shop in San Diego, and we had a beer at his shop. And I was explaining this problem with advertising. And he just said shut up Brown. And he calls these little kids out from the back of the store who's you know, stole their surfboards there. And he says, what do you guys think? Oh, dogs, and everywhere that just went, Oh, man, there's dogs. They're so fake. Have you seen those models they can't serve? And instantly, I realized I'm sending the wrong message to my target market. And I when I saw the ads through their eyes, I was embarrassed at how bad they were and how fake and how posed and so latterly thinking which every entrepreneur has to do. I call a buddy who is running a scholastic surf competition Association. And he gave me two young kids, not Mike Parsons and Ted Robinson, who were young pros about young surfers about to go pro. And so I just went with him surfing and Black's beach and trestles which is in Southern Cal, and each one of these spots is a mile walk to get to the water and it's fantastic surf when you get there. And I just had this thing in the back of my mind that, you know, every little kid I read Surfer Magazine would die to be walking down these roads with Mike Parsons and Ted Robinson. So I just took a couple of photographs with my little Canon camera, and I ran those in surfer and surfing magazines in the Fall and the sales went to $220,000. And there you go. Why? Because I figured out what the the secret of advertising and marketing is. And that is you never Advertise your product, you advertise the features and the benefits and the feeling and, and, and I knew that every little kid would just die to be walking along the beach trestles and, and stuff. And the interesting thing is, the boots were that big in the first ads and the boots were like this big in the second year, the ads that work. So the product was immaterial. It was the it was the environment and inviting these people into to go oh my god, I'd love to walk in. If I have to buy it buy a pair of Ugg boots to be on that path. I'm gonna do it. And then, so that led to the Hey, Mom, it's Christmas, everyone knows the cool kids at school and got a pair of Ugg boots, you know, I want those for Christmas. And that was the beginning of, you know, what I finally learned was how to market and I did the same thing in snowboarding when the youth were, you know, just starting out snowboarding. And that blew up. And back east, I found out that other kids play hockey in the winter. And, you know, their moms had to buy a pair of Ugg boots for those kids. And so that's really what got the whole business started. And the main thing is I had faith in the product the entire time. Right, right. Right. I knew it wasn't the product. It had to be me. And eventually, four years later, I just happened upon that thing that I was doing wrong. And that then just set off the business.

Greg Voisen
Well, you know, as you're going through this, Brian, I can only imagine the amount of time you were dedicating you obviously when you hit 220,000, in sales, this was a full time work for you. You weren't working in any golf. Yeah, yeah. And I get that it was a transition. But you had a very strong belief, you had a very strong purpose that you were driving, which is really goes back to that moment, you had the aha moment and woke up and said, hey, we still did it. You hung on. You had dogged determination, you didn't give up your persistence. Many entrepreneurs struggle with work life balance, maintaining a sense of inner peace amidst the demands of a growing business, which is what you are right in the middle of how did you prioritize what I'm going to call your spiritual wellbeing, while building Ugg boots? And what advice would you have for others who are striving to find some kind of balance like that? And you know, even you, Brian, you maybe didn't have it back then. But you now have realized how important it is, and that you wished you would have maybe prioritize things a little differently than you did? Because I think as we age, we look back and we go, wow, I think I would have had a much happier life. Had I spent more time really thinking about those things. So if you're talking to a young entrepreneur today, or a young CEO today, from a fatherly advice, as somebody who grew a multimillion dollar company, what would you tell them today, if they're in their 30s 40s? Well,

Brian Smith
then, if you're in your 30s, and 40s, that's the time to go both out and build right, then phases in life. And that 30s and 40s is the building stage. And so you have to dedicate your life to it. But the cost is your personal life, right? And I was really blessed that I have always been. I learned from meditation, that when I'm really healthy, inactive, I can drop into meditation very easily. But if you let yourself get stressed out, and there's too much work and not enough of you, your home life, it gets out of balance. So the trick throughout your life is to balance that drive, which you have to have in your 30s and 40s. And then be able to relax a bit in your 50s and 60s. And then unfortunately, wisdom only comes with experience. If you're not born with it, it's a real bummer. But you have to get on to be smart, right? Yeah, yeah. What I found was really critical. And this this I go into this in my book a lot is that whenever I would start to get overwhelmed, I would get on my bike. I lived in Pacific Beach which is on the wall, sea level, and the biggest hit Oh, in San Diego is 800 feet high in La Jolla. Right? Right. And I would ride my bike up that hill every day. And

Greg Voisen
you mean to the top of Soledad Mountain? Or the one? Yeah, I've been many times, you probably drove up. Oh, no, no, I'm an avid cyclist, I've done okay with,

Brian Smith
You know, the high that you get on when you finally get to the top, you know, you're absolutely exhausted. But here's the oxygenation. And that is the most critical thing for a quick recovery of being stressed out. And I would get up to the top and I'd have a different look on things, you know, I'd be looking down over San Diego, you know, North County, Durham, down to Mexico, and a bet back east to alcohol. And you just have this sense of being away from the day to day grind of my office in Pacific Beach. And I would always say a little prayer, you know, just Hey, thanks, God for my health and this opportunity, and, you know, keep me keep me, you know, working at it, you know, just, you know, and I would do a simple prayer, never the same thing. And then I'd Coast back home, and then I'd be so much happier with my wife and my kids, I take the time to play with them. Whereas if I hadn't come straight from the office to home, they wouldn't have had the time because I wouldn't have been interested. So the answer to that question you asked me is, number one, stay in really good physical shape, especially, especially aerobic shape, because it's the oxygenation that clears out all the crap from the, you know, when you're when you're working all the time, you tend to get stressed and your whole body closes down like that. And you need to get out and expand and get back to the universe. I mean, the universe is perfect. Everything you could possibly want exists already. And you have to get in touch with that, you know, because it's so easy to lose it. And by getting up to the top amount so that it sort of open up the heavens again, and I would have new faith a new determination, a new, you know, grit to go back and keep going at it.

Greg Voisen
Well, you reprioritize you know, I mean, you were talking about writing, you know, I used to do Torrey Pines, repeat and Saturday, I go up to the top of Torrey Pines and I ride from Encinitas and I come back. And you know, to me, there's nothing more relaxing. And people say, well, you're riding up the inside of Torrey Pines, which the climb is not as big as Soledad mountain. But the point is, is that you're outside enjoying the fresh air, you're working your heart, you're doing something good for yourself and you feel even though you might be a little bit tired, it's a good tired, right? It's one of those releases of endorphins, you know, and as an author, you speak Landauer. And you've undoubtedly inspired countless individuals with your story. message, or, let's say, in this case, your spiritual insights. What do you hope the readers or listeners would take away from your book and your experiences with growing the birth of the company? Well, in this case, the birth of Ugg boots, and then selling it 17 years later, to a larger company to run? What would you like to leave our listeners with today?

Brian Smith
Well, the there's a lot of philosophy in my book, you know, you know, I mentioned getting older, you sort of pick up on things that you read, or you see or you some things I just, you know, invited myself. But the one of the most powerful things in the book is a stable, and I speak this on the stage because I do a lot of keynote, speaking all over the world. And that is that your most disappointing disappointments nearly always turn out to be your greatest blessings. Right? And when I'm on the stage, I asked the audience of it in the last 12 months, has something happened in your business or your personal life? Because there's there's no distinction Has something happened at the time you thought it was a huge disaster. And now you look back and think thank God that happened. And I promise you 80% of the audience, put their hands up. Because it's such a true philosophy, philosophical statement that your life is all about. Like, you don't start here and go straight up to success. Right, right. You cruise along for a while you hit a wall, okay? And it's like, okay, I got a choice. I give up. I can go over it, around it under it, whatever. And every time you overcome that one obstacle, you're cruising along, and then you hit another obstacle, and it's a continuation If that through your whole life is to how do you deal with obstacles and adversity, and every time like in a business sense, every time you overcome one of those things, and your opposition does it, you just got market share, right? You just couldn't advantage in the marketplace. And in your personal life, it's the same thing you've got, every time you overcome a disagreement with your spouse, or friction with the kids or, you know, stuff that happens in life. That's where you grow is from every time you overcome an obstacle. So that's probably the most important thing I like to impart to people. And the other. The other

Greg Voisen
is a quote that you ought to remember, and I'm sure you do from reading the book. Can't remember the author, but she said, I was an overnight success. It just took me 40 years to get there. It's like, yeah, that is true about most everything, you know, I just celebrated my 45th wedding anniversary. And you know, it's, it's, it's a journey, everybody's on a journey, you're you're learning all the time, you're learning about people's personalities, their stories, their challenges. And along the way, the stories that you tell, even in this book, and the stories that you relayed from the from the podium, are the stories that people remember about the journey that you took to get it there, and practical applications to apply to their life. What are some of the principles and lessons that I apply from what Brian has been able to say, if there were two big lessons that you learned that you'd want to leave the listeners with? Before we wrap up this podcast?

Brian Smith
What would they be? Okay, the main one, which again, is in my book. And this is the one people a year later, they'll come up to me and tell me about this piece of philosophy, right? It's the only thing they remember, of all the stuff I talk about. And that is this. The quickest way for a TED Talk to become a frog is live every day happily as a tadpole. Because what it means is you have to live in the now you have to do what you can do now, don't stress about the future, because you can't predict what's going to happen down the line. And you can't regret the past because it's already happened. You have to be in the now 100%

Greg Voisen
All of your life. It sounds like rom dice.

Brian Smith
That's exactly the same principle

Greg Voisen
here, I'll show you look what sits on my desk.

Brian Smith
That's exactly what I'm talking about this,

Greg Voisen
if I showed you something else, you would actually pretty you would you would laugh. I've done this on a couple of shows. I have a clock that sits next to this desk, right? And I'm going to pull it off the wall just for you so that my listeners can see this too. Let me show you this.

Greg Voisen
Perfect. Do you see that there's actually no doubles on the clock. And the only thing that goes back and forth is the ohm signal. That's it.

Brian Smith
Well, listen, that's, that's, that's life. Yeah, I've I've come to learn now. Now I'm in my 70s now. Thank God, I'm really still active and healthy, and got more enthusiasm you can believe to go out and keep talking in front of people in you know, business groups and entrepreneurial groups and stuff. But the the philosophy of life is so much bigger than your business. Yes. Okay. Your business is what you do to get money to pay the rent, to go on vacations to buy toys. That's what business is about is accumulating, but it is not the purpose of your life. Your life is all about love. Right? And the success of OG in a bizarre way was all about love. And it started out very early on. I would go into the surf shops I was embarrassed. I you know selling sheepskin in a surf shop was not a natural thing. But I did it by making friends with the store, the store owner or the manager. And you know the first time I can remember the first time Welcome to South Coast search, which is where I had the beer with that guy He started laughing at me and he called out the back to his surfboard shaper. Hey, Jim, come on in. There's a guy in here trying to sell sheepskin boots in a surf shop. That's how embarrassing it was for me, he turned out to be one of my best friends. And he probably sold a couple of $100,000 worth of Ugg boots, you know, over the course of the boom, right? But I

Greg Voisen
mean, I think the one of the things you say about love and I, I would agree with you, as we get older, we reflect on that in our lives. But as the Dalai Lama says, and this is pretty much sums this up, you're going to be remembered by how much you loved, who loved you, and how much you let go. And everything that you've said, basically, is summarized in that, and one of them is letting go because you said, you know, be here now, well to be here, now you have to let go of what should have woulda coulda what was supposed to happen. And to actually have these people love you as a salesperson for UG. It's how much love you gave them. And they saw that in you, because you were doing that because you had a passion for what you were doing, which was selling them Ugg boots, and I'm gonna tell all my listeners, you know, go out and get a copy of the book, it's on Amazon Go to Brian's website, his website is very easy to get to. And you can let me put the link to it. It's basically just Brian smith.com is what it is. Brian Smith speaker.com. Yeah, Brian. I forgot the speaker part. But you can go there you can learn about the book about his speaking. He's got a VIP with Brian De. He's got a blog there. And importantly, I'd say encourage anybody who's looking to have someone come into their company, and talk about the pluses and minuses as being an entrepreneur. He's also got a testimonial from Harvey Mackay. There. So do go look to his website, contact Brian. And if you want him to do a keynote speak, or you want him to come in for a VIP day, please do that. That's all there you can actually see all the places he's spoken. And it's been an honor and a pleasure having you on inside personal growth.

Brian Smith
Thanks. Just remember that the books are roadmap for entrepreneurs, and it can save you years of struggle that that I went through when you're gonna go, oh my god, I'm facing that. Here's what he did. And now I can do it too. So it's a very valuable resource.

Greg Voisen
Well, you speak to young entrepreneur groups, and I think that's important. YPO and that's a great place for you know, this book when you've got people like that that are growing and developing, forming norming storming as you were saying, you know, the business going through it. You've heard all the lingo around it. You used to be in your very young years, and accountant which just drove you crazy and you went into something that gave you a lot of passion for life, Brian, honor, pleasure having you on tremendous continued success to you and your book and your speaking tour. I appreciate you having me being a guest

Brian Smith
asked me My pleasure. Thanks very much.

Greg Voisen
Namaste, my friend. Take care!