Greg Voisen
Well, welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. This is Greg Voisen, the host of Inside Personal Growth. And joining me from Rhode Island is Thomas Lane. And Thomas has a book out for all of you that can see it called The Karma Factor. And you can also reach Thomas through his website. And it is thomaslane.com t-h-o-m-a-s-l-a-n-e.com. Thomas, good day to you how you doing?

Thomas Lane
I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on, man. It's a real honor.

Greg Voisen
Well, it's a pleasure. And Thomas and I have had more than one meeting via zoom. Because we have a thing in common, which is the Hudson Foundation, which is mom set up, and my Compassionate Communication Foundation. Both of these foundations have a I'm going to call it a manifesto Thomas to help the homeless. And he actually sent me a book that his mother wrote dinner at six. And we're connected in more than just one way through this interview we're doing today, but I'm gonna let the people in the audience know a little bit about you. I grew up in Connecticut, and I was deeply influenced by poet singer songwriters, Bob Dylan, and Leonard Cohen. I liked them. He was drawn to landscapes where street spirit and progressive values intersect civil rights relationships, the search for higher ground, as well as wild and wacky things that happen along the way. And boy, he's had some of those, let me tell you, from the moment he got his first guitar, he's been collecting experiences, documenting his journey, jumping freight trains in Oregon to living and commune life in the Mojave Desert, selling jewelry on the streets in New York, to performing and clubs in New York City, Chicago and LA. He's also included a world tour as road manager for an iconic band housed in barons, estate and Scotland during this period. With so many in the artists community upset about the corporate dominion of the arts, Thomas Lane, the self-published a book called The Artists Manifesto. He is currently at work on an updated version, and vital role the arts play in challenging the time of political unrest, and climate change. He's also founded a 501 C three not for profit organization, called the Helen Hudson foundation that uses the power of story to help homeless most recently, and we're going to be talking about it is he's completed this spiritual thriller, and titled The Karma factor, which was recently published. So Thomas, yes. You know, you have had a busy life, to say the least. And I think for our readers, you know, because this is a story about it's a monk timeless vision, as you say, and Assassins revenge. And in New York City cop caught in the middle. And it's kind of a thriller, but a fiction book, and why what was your original attempt for writing The Karma Factor? And what did you want the readers to learn about karma and their lives? Because, you know, karma is the word karma is used a lot. And not everybody knows what it is. So maybe I'll just start with a definition.

Thomas Lane
Right? It's from the Sanskrit word. That means deed or action. And so why I became interested in it was that it had seemed to me through the course of my own career like path that I chose her bouncing around between this thing and that thing, and the arts. I never had a career I was trying to get to, I was just trying to understand me, and why I was here. That was the overriding goal. And I came into a bunch of different books and people that I met that helped me in that regard. And it seemed to me that what was missing a lot, and in my life as well, is accountability. The fact that I if I had done something that I did not take responsibility for, it would kind of haunt me. And this is, this is what the karma thing is really about, which is that if you don't handle something, if you've transgressed on some ground hurt, somebody's done something that you feel badly about, if you don't rush to make it right, if you don't have the North Star that says, you know, that wasn't cool, I should have done something and this goes across this is relationships, this is global warming. So many things are because we have not been accounted Boom. So I thought, I don't like preaching. I'm not built that way. I have a lot of ideas. But I also love cops and robbers and regular action adventure stuff. And I thought, what if I plugged in those two seemingly opposite things? Lethal killer, a detective trying to track each other down? But what if I put that the solution was not putting this guy in jail, or killing him or executing? What was if you could kind of salvage him in terms of his accountability for what he had done? And where it started? What that would be a cool thing. So that ended up as the book. I hope that answers your question.

Greg Voisen
Oh, it does. It does. You know, it's interesting when you say this whole cops and robbers thing because I'm, I'm kind of into a series called Grantchester on PBS, right? And it's about the cops, and a vicar who thinks he's a cop. And interesting how the stories evolve and how they do that. And it's just so compelling to watch. And a lot of karma. In last night's episode was, really, because what the vicar did is he hit the guy, and it killed him on his motorcycle. And it's interesting to watch how they woven the story. And you know, you start the book off with the letter you call it. And you mentioned that the letter was sent by this renegade Tibetan monk by the name of Paladin. I'm sure a fictional name but you know, Paladin anyway, can you tell us about the letter, what it said? And why advance thinkers from around the world who started disappearing as a result of this? In other words, this is kind of how you're teeing up this book was with the with the letter?

Thomas Lane
Yeah, I'm really glad you asked that, because it's easy to kind of skip by it. But it is it is the, the deepest layer, and the thing that spawns the whole story, which is like, oh, let's say you're, you're a Tibetan monk, you live in Tibet, and you have a vision. And this is 1946. And you know, you have won the war. With Hitler, you beat him. But you know that because the DNA, the human DNA will foster a new strong men. And we're seeing that right now in our culture. And they will come because it's not handled, there is no real way of getting to the evil, the problematic things. So he's saying, the one thing that we have not done seems to be the obvious thing, which is the human soul. What is it, it's an all of these religions we talk about, it's the deepest thing we have, but nobody really understands it. So what he does in my fictitious character is secretly send out letters to brilliant scientists, brilliant poets, you know, just fantastic people from all the different professions. So they would come together to meet in a hidden monastery in Tibet, and they'd focus on the soul. What is it? How does it work, and karma is sort of this, I call them the sidekick of the soul. But that's a very active ingredient of getting messed up or getting handled. And the premise of the book was that we need a new take, we need a whole nother perception, you and I have talked about that, of, of just basic stuff about who we are, why we're here, what we need to do. And so that was a letter, and they're disappearing because they're secretly joining him. They're going to Tibet, from their, you know, stoop in New York City or their ranch in Montana. And there's sneaking out and they're joining him and this is what is the story gets based on

Greg Voisen
Yeah, no, it's a great way to start this book. That's for certain so hey, look, you know, a lot of our listeners hear about negative karma and good karma. is karma. Just karma? or is somebody just put his spin on it? Either way, in other words, it's it. It's, it's not really retribution. In my sense of the word because you talked about soul just a minute ago. Yeah. And at a soul level, that's the true DNA and expression of ourselves. Right. So what would you what would you say if to our listeners out there, they're like, Hey, man, it's good karma. It's bad karma.

Thomas Lane
Well, a I'm no expert. I'm Just to guys that I do spend a lot of time trying to understand my, my areas of difficulty, what's going on, what I have come to, and this, this just me is that it's all based on people having a North Star, I call it a North Star, it's some kind of guiding light, purpose, purpose, this is good, this is not so good. This helps the purpose. This doesn't help purpose. And there, it's intuitive. It's in there, it's just wired in all of us. Or if you say, you know, we're all children of God, or we're all nodes of consciousness, however you want to frame it, it's the same thing. So karma with the good and bad would depend on whether it supports and gives life to whatever that person is doing. And negative karma. Unhappy I call it unhandled. Karma really, is the stuff that is problematic that the person doesn't want to look at, and therefore it persists. And it goes on and keeps cutting us as it goes around comes around, you know that it'll keep coming back, because there is some lesson in there about and trying to get back to that North Star that this is trying to get you to realize,

Greg Voisen
Well, in the subconscious mind, Thomas is so strong that people aren't always aware of what that does. And there's some things that get supplanted, I think that aren't addressed. And I want to talk to you about this. Because you introduced this character, James Early, the cop who breaks up with his girlfriend, it sounds like you know, right when you're writing it, she was putting her clothes on and he was they just had a sexual relationship. At least that's the way it seemed to me. It he was having his mental breakdown. You know, he kind of goes through this mental breakdown, you go on to say that whatever forces were conspiring, whatever madness was overtaking him, it was about to hit this critical mass for early. Right. What has happened early? And why has it happened to him, in your estimation, as it relates to this nonfiction book? And this story? In other words, what are you trying to let the reader know, who reads a nonfiction book, and doesn't read a fiction book about personal growth in this in this story about early,

Thomas Lane
right, so here's a cop James Early, he's kind of the star of NYPD. He has these hunches that just inevitably turn out right. But internally, nobody knows. He's falling apart. We catch him in that moment, where he can't keep the surface much longer from all the concern he's and this is from earlier lifetime that is seeping in. Because of the timing, because of the timing of what happened in Tibet, and the letter and all that stuff and things that happened to him, and what's going on in the world. And an assassin that's about to make his entrance that James Early on some level is these things are picking up steam, he's starting to hallucinate, he's starting to hear voices. And so he's ending off with this girl. And she doesn't understand it. And he doesn't want to explain like, I'm going mad. Right? Just says, you know, this was not the big love. This was when we had fun. Please don't take it personally, I need time off, I need to figure stuff out. She goes away. And then it starts, you know, he's he throws bullets into the fireplace. And he leaves one for himself. He's planning to take himself out. And that's what the critical mass is hit that is that he can't handle it anymore. That's what that is.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, it is. Well, it's a good part of the story. And the correlation to that is all of us go through periods of depression periods of issue. I don't think there's a person on the planet that doesn't go through their own ups and downs. And they all deal with it differently. You know, some people ultimately do commit suicide, unfortunately, because that's the wrong way to leave this planet. Others start to get counseling or get help. And you said, you know, early being a cop in New York City. He obviously he couldn't be faced with more dangerous situations and being in New York City. And at one point lower Eastside. He finds himself in the crossfire and a hail of bullets, as you had mentioned. But somehow he saved I mean, he should have been killed at that point in the book, but he wasn't. Please speak to listeners about the importance of karma in our lives, and how this played a role and early his life. Maybe In particular, you know, look, you're the author of this. So you thought up the whole story and put it all together, what you were trying to get across to people.

Thomas Lane
So, for me, and in my being alive and trying to understand things, there is an element of magic that I've come across. And that I think it's an important factor. Or just mystery that that has some kind of purpose in there. So James Early, wants to take himself out, he creates a situation goes up six flights of stairs, knocks on the door, there's a guy with a rap sheet three miles long, who's in there who's dangerous, and they barge in and early, wanting to take himself out has hit a point where I just, I can't do this anymore. And he launches himself right in the middle of the machine gun. And then all of a sudden, the bullets are diverted, they end up in New Mexico. And he sort of wakes up. And he just goes into hysterics. So but what does you know how this translates for me is that we, we avoid certain catastrophes? I mean, you get right up to everybody, I certainly have had mine, where if I had done that, look out, but I didn't do that, or in some cases I did. But there's that power of choice there. And what he does, what early does, if that moment is decide, I need to find out, it's like, oh, God, I'll try it again, I failed, or I'm just gonna not have any more bad dreams. Because I want to find out what that meant. What is how could that possibly be? And so this launches him. And so you know, I would say unto thee, and unto me, you know, the path there is choice there. And that the choice in terms of hope, in terms of redemption, however you want to frame that, when things are bad, there might be choices that suddenly opened up doors, and it happened to him.

Greg Voisen
Well, and even in real life for everybody, you can hit a wall. Right? And you can get move beyond that, because it's almost like the hero's journey story, right? You know, you go out, you've danger comes, somebody comes in to save you. Right? These are the stories that that had been told for years and years and years. And the similar stories. And, you know, in his case, early ricochets between the mountains of Tibet, as you write in the book, jacket cover and the streets in New York, and he goes down the haunted corridors of his past lives. Okay, now we're getting into karma and past lives and reincarnation, the concept of Karma has deep roots in various religious and philosophical traditions. How do you approach karmic in the book? And what unique perspectives or insights would you offer are round karma.

Thomas Lane
I can tell you basically, how this whole idea of past lifetimes and karma has affected me is it adds another layer to get up going to work, family, whatever, by that there's this other element at play. At least this has been true for me of other possibilities of ways of not just going following energy, easy energy patterns, and doing that. But there, there might have been other sources of information. You know, half the world and not half the world. But a lot of the world believes in past life, and it's no big deal. It's just, that's the way it is. And I found for me, that the area of past lives, gave me certain wider truths in terms of my own job of self-realization, that made a lot of sense that gave it a lot more breathing room, and like, Okay, well, this lifetime, I seem to be doing this, but it's, maybe I did this earlier, or maybe I can do this again, that creates space that creates freedom, a power of choice for me, in that there's other ways of perceiving and there's other chances. It's not just one and done. And I'm drawn to that.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, I mean, I've my sense is you found your own spirituality by investigating many different spiritual practices, from Buddhism to, you know, whatever it might be shakes. It is Sufi, all of them. I mean, there's so many. But the, the main thing is, is all of those spiritual practices, when you look at them confining. There's some simple truths, and many of them. Now many of them don't believe in reincarnation, but reincarnation is part of many of the Eastern philosophies. Let's face it, and you have leaned toward these Eastern philosophies and so has early, right. So you state that he had a memory of a devastating truth of past life. And you state that at the core lies the pure and innocent love that leads to destruction and death. Right. So this is this is a deep one, you state that in the process of discovery early begins to understand the submerged element that underlines the human condition underlies the human condition. How does karma impact our day to day experience and choices you were just talking about? And how can we understand that karma can help us to make better decisions? And then I also want you to address this deep question that's embedded in that that is this, the innocent love that leads to destruction and death?

Thomas Lane
Well, let me take that one, actually, that has to do with the plot, which says there is a love story, right? And that is the pure Ma, it's a beautiful relationship that early in a previous lifetime has with another Tibetan woman. And I don't want to do a spoiler alert here, but they're in the name of love, he rushes out to save her from the Red Chinese coming in there. They're about to come in. And by doing so, he alerts the Red Chinese to there's this hidden monastery that they've been trying to find forever. And so his love for her caused this horrible thing to happen. And it's just, and he has to unwind all that thing. So anyway, that that was what that had to do with I'm sorry, I've forgotten the other.

Greg Voisen
The other part of the question is, how does you were talking about it in the previous one, but I don't think we got as deep as I'd like to go. Okay, how do you how do you approach karma in, in the book, and the and basically the impacts on our day to day experiences and choices? Because you started talking about choices? And how can we better utilize an understanding of karma to make better decisions?

Thomas Lane
I think, you know, what occurred to me just what you were saying there is the bottom line is compassion, compassion for self, having been through being if one believes in past lifetimes, you've been a king, you've been a robber, you've been black, you've been white, you've been a Republican, you've been Democrat, a Democrat, in previous incarnations. And for me, that's very exciting. That's very, you know, if one could live with that in mind that having walked in the shoes of a black man, of a woman, of a Republican, of a Democrat, you know, those are do

Greg Voisen
you remember those past lives?

Thomas Lane
I have had some, I remember the first one I had, I was at the University of Chicago, briefly, and I was a folk singer and playing in various venues there. And I was in one of their wonderful old Gothic churches that had a club there. As looking around, all of a sudden, I was somewhere else I was back in the 1500s, or something. And I was like, oh, my God, oh, my God, I've lived before I this is this is reminiscent, but it's not the same thing. And I thought, oh, my God, this is going to change my life. Well, it did. And it didn't. It, you know, gave fertile ground for information about me and what's going on. And like in the story with this killer, he did something, something happened to him 300 years ago, that kept him playing the same old record over and over and over again. And I found stuff in my past, that I was caught up in that loop. And I couldn't let it go until I confronted it was accountable for that situation or just being aware of that. So I have found that it's very helpful to think of myself in a relationship to all of us, being part of a community and that compassion thing because I've lived I've done horrible things. I've done wonderful things. And it's a, it's become an important element and don't think, oh, that's a past lifetime that was so much. It's just I wear it now, you know, like you were experiences?

Greg Voisen
Would you say that the memories of those past lives? And the memories, or I should say, and the karma that you believe in today allows you to make better decisions as an individual? And if so, what might be an example for the listening audience? I mean, I know, you know, people can take this all the way down to, well, I'm, I'm not going to kill that fly over there. Or I'm not going to kill that rabbit. Or, you know, that kind of karma, right? Because they believe that there is karma and all of that. I personally have a lot of understanding of what that means. To me. There's my own personal experience, what is it kind of mean to you in making those choices, the choices you're making today, versus maybe some of the choices you made in prep prior lives?

Thomas Lane
I think it's just given me a wider, more generous perspective in terms of life. You know, I just feel that, you know, I have problem with right wing, American. At the same time, I know if I sat down and had coffee, and we could just get away from things like that, I would be more willing to say I get that I, you know, I can relate to that. Before I went, I think before I would have been a little bit unwilling to open up my guard, to not be punitive. Just more kinder.

Greg Voisen
So you're kinder, you're more understanding, you have more compassion, you do understand it, even though you don't always agree with it. And I think that that's as long as you can hold those two in the same space. Right? I don't think it's always about what I don't want to say saying, hey, I've come to your side, it's about understanding what the other side is saying and understanding it with compassion, and forgiveness. Right. And I think that's a very, very good point. Now, this James Early, he, he takes this newfound truth that you talked about, and awakening, we all talk about transformation and awakening, and he hits the streets again, and this time is with his new knowledge. And then he's flung into this hunt for the assassin was declared a private war on America and has already killed seven times before. Right? How do you think understanding the concept of dis Karma can contribute to personal growth and spiritual development? And in this case, you can relate it to early because obviously, he had a huge awakening.

Thomas Lane
So early His task is a cop, when he was just being a cop without this other layer of understanding was detract this killer down, shoot him do anything because this guy is, is taking out very important people. Oh, he has a private war going on with America because of something that they did. The Americans did to him in 1775 74, somewhere around there. So he is replaying those tapes. Now early becomes aware that that's what's happening with this guy. He's not ultimately a bad person he has late he has a decency, goodness, with layers and layers of an unhandled karma and being hurt and revenge and all those other motives. So early is now even though he's been a cop, he has to be faster than the police force, the police catch him. They're going to put him in jail, whatever, next time, he'll come around and do it all again. That's the premise ale and jail as they say, but early is trying to kick them kick that needle off the broken record. He needs to restore that guy, he needs to say, Dude, you are behaving in a way that is not who you really are. You need to take a look. And he is able to do that by getting deeply into the guy's past lifetime understanding where he's come from, and using that understanding, to jolt that person back to some kind of I don't want to keep killing people. That's I don't want to give a story. But that's what's happening. Any

Greg Voisen
well, but it's an odd, it's a newfound consciousness. It's a newfound awakening that both he's trying to impart on the assassin on something that he awoke to. And it's really what it's doing is it's saying how this can spread, in other words, how you can help other people find this awakening, by having this compassion in yourself. And it's really how we're going to actually heal the world. And that that kind of brings me to

Thomas Lane
what disappointed disappointment there but that's what the letter that's the initial letter is all about that we need to figure out a new approach, a soul friendly approach to this interrelationship and,

Greg Voisen
and how and how people will heal. Yeah, spiritually, emotionally, so that we treat one another with more dignity and kindness and compassion. And, you know, I think this is a great spot for us to segue in, what do you hope the readers are going to gain from the karma factor? Because it is a nonfiction book, it's a story. But if I walked away from it and said, hey, this was the next Harry Potter. And how do you envision it impacting their lives? In other words, if I follow this story, and James Early in the assassin, and all going in, oh, ricocheting between the mountains of Tibet and the New York streets, going from what would be considered a my real job in life, to my life growing as an individual, because there's a huge personal growth story here. And it's really more than the personal growth story. It's a spiritual transformation is what it is. And so what do you would you like the listeners to kind of, if they envision it impacting them? How would you like it to impact them that there's an awareness? Or what

Thomas Lane
a great question. I think, first of all, I wanted it to be an adventure, the book that, that it's fun to read, it's a page turner. It's not some heavy handed, proselytizing about truth, and you need to do this. It's it, that stuff's embedded, I wanted it to be embedded in the story. And I think one reader who told me that they and he very much mystery, love, mystery stories, etc. And then everything's fine and tough cop and guns and did that. And then all of a sudden, the bullets disappeared. Anyway, what we were will hold on, hold the music. And then he went back and read it. And then he got, okay, I can have this, this is interesting. And he went from there to really love the book. And so and that would be if, if it's a fun read, and that there's, it opens up channels into, I call it backlit, by the spiritual eye, the story that and then it comes through the seams of the storyline, that there's, there's this other force of beings that are more elevated the possibility, I would love to think the possibility of becoming more elevated, that, that this inspires the willingness to look more deeply at troubled areas, and accountability, and all those things embody and karma, but also in relationships, that, that these things that people are going through, are kind of universal aspects of humanity. And that, you know, to be generous about and be willing to hear what people are saying, and listen below the surface a little bit more, which is what early had to do. He had this killer, and they're really in a chase. And he manages to get closer and closer. So they're right on the rooftop, and an earlier saying, kill me, go ahead, just go if that's where you are. And he puts his life out there. And I'm not recommending that to readers, but the degree of possibility of a life that has these other dimensions, even if it moves a fraction of an inch, I would be thrilled.

Greg Voisen
Well you use the extremeness of that story of saying go ahead and kill me and him having there's a lot that you can read into that but him having the courage but also the conviction to utilize that moment to transform that other man's life the assassins life. Right. And so you know much of this takes courage from everyone out there listening. Yeah, courage to face many problems. That you have an A courage and an awareness and a way in which you can face them and actually transmute many of them. and heal many of them within your soul at a soul level, meaning transforming and healing at a soul level. And when you're willing to do have that courage to do that, which James Early did in his confrontation with the assassin, there was an awakening of both people. And more of a conviction from earliest part there. Now, you know, the people go through this book, they read the book, it's an engaging book. It has lots of stories, twists and turns, as most nonfiction books do, yours is no different that way. But you have an underlying message around the karma, that karma and if there were three important elements that you would want to leave the listeners with the story that you believe the reader should remember, and explore in their lives. What would those three points be Thomas, what would you say? Hey, look, I think if you walk away from this book, put it down and never pick it up again. What would you have liked to have had happen to the reader's consciousness?

Thomas Lane
That's a good one. So I would say I would like to leave footprints, fingerprints, have the importance of inquiry, of being willing to look at something, not just with a fixed idea, but a willingness to learn to listen, to understand something? They you know, for me, it's been a big deal to try and understand just the Thomas Lane aspect, but also about friends and people. And, and, and causes and just a little bit more. The power of inquiry, the importance of inquiry, it, it keeps you alive, it keeps you engaged, it keeps new things happening and growth going. So I would say that would definitely would

Greg Voisen
You would you also refer to inquiry as curiosity? Yes. Yeah. So the power of curiosity is in questioning. Yeah. Right. And then finding something that gives you a passion. Right? Right. Because if we're inquisitive, look at you, your life is like a, it's a roadmap to somebody who's been incredibly creative. incredibly innovative. You know, you've written books, you've written music, you've, you're an artist, you know, those kinds of things are the makeup of who Thomas Lane is, right? And what I'm saying is in this inquiry, I think you could use the word inquiry, or you could use the word inquisitive. Or you could use the word, curious what you're saying, and I want to reframe it. And hopefully I'm right, is it you'd like the readers to walk away with this heightened sense of curiosity and an inquisitiveness,

Thomas Lane
passion, a passion for passion for understanding for looking a little farther, just following through on that. Second thing, you know, I mean, an area you and I are very familiar with, which is the homeless, you know, when somebody comes up to you and says, I need 25 cents, and you just go, you know, I can't deal with this pain. He's, you know, this smell whatever. If you're willing, and the courage comes out here, just stop for once. And just who is this guy? How did he get here? Just asking those questions to yourself, and then responding appropriately. But with but with some sense of you could learn something here, there's a moment. So that would be a Capital One.

Greg Voisen
That's a big one. What's the second one accountability

Thomas Lane
out ability? I would say, which is that? And this is often hard, because it takes I just think growth takes courage, period. You know, and also, I mean, I love the quote from I think, JFK, know, Barack, you He said, Be Kind be useful. Service. Accountability just means being responsible, being responsible for, you know, if someone feels like that, that it's not just now I'm supposed to, but you want to be response, you want to care for Person Care for a cause care for a religion, care for cleaning, keeping your room neat, or whatever it is, that that creates space, that creates good karma. So I will say accountability, and this is why we have torn up this earth is because we have not had accountability for what we have done that has damaged the earth. So I would say and then third of all, and

Greg Voisen
and I'd also say that the ego has an insatiable appetite for more. Yeah. And so what happens is, you know, I don't want to say this on all accounts. But as a world, we've, you know, we've been programmed to buy more, do more, be more whatever it might be, but more is the nemesis of much of our current climate change. Mounds and mounds of garbage pollution in many places, the good part is I still have a lot of faith that we can work our way out of it. And the way we're going to work it out is people reading a book like yours, awakening to a new level of consciousness and being more compassionate to other people and to themselves. And understanding that that heightened level of consciousness and awareness brings with it accountability. Right? And it's true, it really is. Because if you weren't accountable before, you're going to actually question because you said inquiry or may inquisitive. Are you going to question the next purchase you make? And what's it for? And why are you going to use it? Right? And what's it going to do and who's going to benefit and my all of those kinds of things. Once you start to do that you start to go down a different path. You weren't mindless to what was going on in your life, you were mindful. And I think many people are mindless when they do that kind of thing. And I'm, hey, look, I'm as much as much of his challenge with that as anybody. But I am much more mindful now. Of everything that I do. So accountability, curiosity, what's the third one?

Thomas Lane
Okay. I don't usually like to use this word because it's so hackneyed and overused and misused and whatever. I'm just gonna say it love.

Greg Voisen
Oh, yeah, no, it's a good one.

Thomas Lane
I just got chills when I said that I had it because I don't do No, because it's, it's so overused. And I love you. They don't, they're not meaning that. But sometimes they do. But I would say that however you want to frame that. The deep Care for Self and Others is terribly important. It's kind of like that, that may be the North Star of all the and when there's love there, accountability, and inquiry, all those aspects go into play because you care. And

Greg Voisen
self-love, self-compassion is where it starts. You know, if you're always digging on yourself, you're never going to be enough for anybody, and especially not for yourself, right? But if you can actually turn that love within and say, I am whole, I am alive. I am a soul that can contribute to the shifting of what's going on our planet worldwide. I think your concept of love is very well taken in conjunction with this novel. Okay? Because what early did was awaken to the love look at him, he went through, he beat up on the girl they left dairy through bullets and the fiery went these places he had to go through this journey to find that. Right. And nobody could have had the courage he did to stand up to the moustache. And if he didn't have self-compassion and love. So I'm, I'm with you on that one. I would say that's true. Okay.

Thomas Lane
But yeah, I mean, it is. Beloved for life, the love the love for being here, the miracle that this is. That was his journey. And if I get a chance to write the sequel that this was the setup book, then I can get more into early next evolution. And we'll see what that is. Because I don't know. I will know when I started writing it. Weren't you buy by writing it will, it will come to me. Yeah, it will also it's tracking with my own. Yeah. So

Greg Voisen
I want my listeners to know, not a fan book. But I should say, well laid out and designed because it's big print. That's why it's bigger. So it that doesn't mean that he was writing for old people. It just meant that it made it made it easier to actually read and it does because as I was reading and I was thinking to myself, this is kind of the best book I've picked up and had a good feel as far as how the spacing is and the text and everything. So congratulations to you. Go out and get a copy of the karma factor. It's by Thomas Lane. You can get At on Amazon, you can also go to his website, Thomas ln l a n e.com. There you can learn more about his art, his poetry, his writings, his music, really reach out to Thomas and also the philanthropic work that he's doing through the Helen Hudson foundation. Kudos to you, Thomas. Thanks for being on inside personal growth. Namaste, to you and to all of my listeners. Thanks for taking the time to listen to this nonfictional story about James Early and how he traverses through life and actually transforms himself as a result of the understanding of karma. Thanks so much for being on inside personal growth.

Thomas Lane
It's been really fun. Thank you so much. Good luck.