Greg Voisen
Well, welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. This is Greg Voisen and the host of Inside Personal Growth. And joining me from Birmingham, Alabama on the other end of the line, we've had a few audio issues this morning, but we finally got them resolved is Larry Thornton. And Larry, my listeners know plenty about me and they're gonna get to know a little bit about you. But we're here today to talk about his new book. Why Not Win?: Reflections on a 50-Year Journey from Segregated South to America's Boardrooms - and what it can teach us all? Well, Larry, welcome to Inside Personal Growth. How're you doing today?

Larry Thornton
Here, man. Thanks, Greg. Looking forward to chatting with you.

Greg Voisen
Well, looking forward to chatting with you as well, and talking with you about your book and your foundation, called the WNW Institute. And we will talk about that in a few minutes a little bit more. Let the listeners know a little bit about you. He's described as the guy who's really an artist and entrepreneur, author and servant leader. He's a father, grandfather, game changer, teacher and team player. And those are just a few of the words to describe him. As I'll tell my listeners, I was listening to the interview with his executive director of his charity. And she said he was determined, I think that's the word she would use. He was born in Montgomery, Alabama and began his career as an art teacher utilizing the Fine Arts degree from Alabama State University. After several years, he left the education sector and began painting signs at Coca Cola Bottling. He stayed there for years. And there he began his corporate journey. Larry's prowess as businessman led him into being the first black McDonald's franchise owner in the state of Alabama. Eventually, this would lead him to creating multiple stores. And the president and owner of Thornton enterprises. Larry also used his business acumen and experience to serve on the board of directors for Coca Cola Bottling Company united and the first commercial bank. Well, Larry, you got quite a background. And I appreciate having you on the show. You know, if there was one lesson you'd want our listeners to learn as a result of you being on this podcast, and that you could teach anybody out there, whether they're a businessman or somebody growing up right now in their, you know, teenager, maybe listening to the show, what would you want them to know about the characteristics of a leader that need to kind of be developed over time? Right, that would help them be a good leader?

Larry Thornton
Yep. Well, again, Thanks, Greg, for the opportunity. You know, we'd love that stuff that we do, both through the Institute and the messaging. Within the book. The book was written just to capture those rudiments of thought, processes of thinking that lead to a winning experience. I think everybody intuitively wants to win. That's natural. But I'm not so certain, Greg, that everybody understands the process. And even more important than that, their personal role in that process. If the book, it's about anything at all, it is about personal accountability, personal responsibility, personal discipline. And those who master those tenets can pretty much write his or her ticket, in my opinion. So I was with a friend not very long ago, Greg, and he said that he can reduce leadership to one single word. And I can't disprove that it seems deceptively simple. But he reduced his leadership to caring. And I thought that that was a very powerful statement that I certainly have employed kind of naturally in my hat in my journey to do some of the things that I get to do today. If I had to leave one antidote, we ended the podcast right now it would be this and I say it in the book, the way that you are, is not the way that you have to be. That is probably one of the most misunderstood axioms that I know of you can be we all can be a very different way. If we were willing to put the work in on ourselves. in any regard, and from a

Greg Voisen
psychological standpoint, you know, I went back to school later in life and got a degree in spiritual psychology. And what we used to say is you don't have to believe everything you think. And in one sentence, what you just said, was attempting to get somebody to really be aware of who they are. And I think from a person like yourself, the part where you start, you know, I'm going to bring in the creativity, and the side of you, which is an artist and the side of you, which is also a curious, right. And so what you find about good leaders is curiosity. And then that curiosity leads to them having literally a purpose, they define a purpose around something, and then they create their mission, and then they can create their goals. And when those things are kind of aligned, because what my show is called inside personal growth, I've had 11 other books here on personal growth, and you find kind of a common theme there. But I think someone like yourself growing up in a segregated south, where there was a lot of racism at the time. And when you were working for Coca Cola, it was like some of the guys used to say to you, well, why does he, you know, deserve that? Right? You remember who you are? You're Blackish? They said, I think it was in the book. Speak, if you would about that, because the mental attitude that those gentlemen had versus the attitude, and what you the character that you had was completely different. And you had a belief, and I think it really comes around your true for you and your belief, Larry, how you got out of that. Right? And you propelled yourself an upward movement? I think that's where we really should talk about here.

Larry Thornton
Yeah, well, I'll tell you, keeping your eye on the prize is key, in any experience, I think. But from a life perspective, I certainly found that that was the case, of course, integrating schools. In the state of Alabama. Of course, we all know that Brown versus Board of Education, that landmark ruling occurred in 1954. Can Kansas but the southern states would not adhere to that mandate. In fact, they would work with diabolical creativity to legislate towards and legislatures would work with diabolical creativity and avoiding the brown mandate. So it wasn't until 6768. When they opened up and there I was one of six black students to attend this otherwise all white school. Interesting dynamic, you can imagine. Dr. King was killed later in that same school year. It was traumatic, very, very difficult. But I had to learn quickly to become comfortable, if you will, in this very uncomfortable setting. And that particular realization has kind of propelled and catapulted me, throughout some of the things that I get to do today, I say in the book, Greg, at least three times, if you can't take anything, you can have anything. The more you can take, with grace and humility, the more you can have, that is so basic, so simple, so plain yet so misunderstood. And I can't tell you the number of my colleagues who are quite capable, quite competent, very well degree, but have missed their end because they could not take the blows in the punches. And in the south, a lot of those flows were of a Rachel nature. And I've been able to kind of turn those around. If he wants you to get a chance to go through that book, you'll see very succinct stories that speaks to an ability to surpass not being moved and taken off of your game, because of someone else's vision of who you are.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, and you always had your eye on the ball, I can tell. In other words, as far as winning was concerned, and you know, we everybody that speaks about this from Napoleon Hill, to on and on and on about setting goals, whether they're financial goals or their personal goals or their physical goals or whatever they are, what was the success for you in winning around actually setting your own internal goals and driving toward a mission that you wanted to succeed? I know, sometimes for people it isn't always really clear. There's not a vision little picture of it. And for others that it is for someone like yourself who's achieved as much as you have, what would you say has been the secret sauce for you?

Larry Thornton
I think understanding that we set our own pace, we set our own path by believing, you know, first by believing and I think as an artist, I would be one of the first to say that we paint our own worlds. And here again, too many of us are not necessarily aware of that, you know, life is interesting, Greg, but only two interesting people. Life is exciting. But only two exciting people. Life can be dough, boring, luxurious, but only to dull, boring and luxurious people. It is also true, Greg that life is successful, but only to successful people. So when we paint that vision of ourselves, and we approach every day, from that perspective, when you are interested, I think you use the word curious, curious earlier, but when you're interested about anything about all things, it makes you an interesting person, who when you're excited about things that makes you an exciting person,

Greg Voisen
we'll speak about speak about that in the context, you know, about a canvas. You know, I've heard this many times said, you know, we're actors on the stage of a play, and Joseph Campbell, you know, the hero's journey and how we venture out and we get hit and knocked down and then somebody comes along and helps us and comes back and so on. But this canvas is really interesting element to me because it's blank. And from an artist standpoint, I want to talk about it because you drew some beautiful artwork in here for Coca Cola that you clicked in the book. I heard that said the other day in a documentary from an artist. He said, “you know, it's interesting, I walked the streets.” And then with chalk, he would go down. And this was actually in the south samplers too. And he got all these beautiful pictures. And he said the reason was, is because I'd find a piece of gum, like gum like this. And I would draw around it right. And here's what I'm talking about the canvas. Sure. You're a guy who's seen stuff end up on the side of buildings, you know, everywhere, right? How would you tell people out there today who have a blank canvas to start because many of them are afraid to actually even draw on the blank, blank canvas, and you got to start to win?

Larry Thornton
Yep, yep. Well, taking that first step, even though it might be a misstep, but you got to take that first step, so that you can get the exposure, get the comfort level, to get the learnings that will come along with it is interesting, you should say that about a canvas and the lens, I mean, everything that I see happens to be through the lens of an artist. For those of us who have an opportunity to self to self-Express, whether that's through music, creative writing, thespian art, music, you know, we are some of the most fortunate people in the world, I think, because we see the world differently every day. To me, it's a canvas, and the mediums that I use our relationships, and I dipped my, you know, kind of brush, if you will, into those relationships to build. I think one of the other reasons why I think we missed so much in life is that we don't employ those human resources that are available to us. And we close people out Mark, I think too much. In fact, I'm in the process now trying to fashion how I would present this belief that I have, I believe that too many people work, literally head down, knows the grind, crunching the numbers, whatever, a lot harder than they otherwise would have to, if they were willing to take on knew that they should be taking a commensurate amount of that time and convert that into relating. The mantra to our institute is work hard, relate hard, you'll get no better piece of life admonition than that. And when people ask me, you know, how is it that you are able to serve on corporate boards that Three of them to home seven restaurants. How did you get to do that? You're the first black president of this the first black McDonald's owner of that, yeah. How did you do those things? What is not me, it's other people, the relationships, other people will, I want to say literally, but I'll have to say, virtually, lift us up, Greg, and deliver us into the desires of our heart if we understood the value and the benefits, and I think too often we do not.

Greg Voisen
Well, relationships, obviously, you're a master at developing relationships, because you could not have succeeded as much as you would have as an entrepreneur, as an artist. And I'm gonna go back to that analogy of kind of the canvas, right. So when somebody's listening out there today, wants to win. And you they don't want to be controlled by the external world, which obviously, you didn't allow the external world, to actually, when I say this, I have this severe influence on you, it did have an influence on you. But you just didn't follow in the common footsteps of like, hey, I'm gonna go to work eight to five, I'm going to do this. Not that there's anything wrong with that. There's a lot of people that do that. But you thought out of the box, let's, let's face it. And you know, some people want to do that. But then there's this thing called fear. And so my question for you, is around the fears associated with getting started believing in yourself, and then carrying the ball to the finish line. Right? What would you tell people on? Why not when?

Larry Thornton
Well, you're again, there's no other way to say it, you gotta get started. First of all, Greg, I believe that we inherently have all of the gifts that we need. I think we all have talents. We all have abilities. We all have time. And we have a mind, often unutilized that is an enormous amount of wealth, if we invest them well. Starting with curiosity, let's go back to my second grade teacher, who was something of an artist. When we'd go out for recess, we return to these magical illustrations and drawings on the chalkboard, I thought it was the most amazing and most magical thing I've ever seen a horn of plenty, or Santa Claus, or Easter Bunny and the Easter eggs. I was so fascinated that I said, Miss Cook, can I stay in and watch you do that? Now imagine a kid in the second grade, everybody wants to get out of the classroom to go play and run and swing. But I'm captivated by this magical creation. And she allowed me to do that Greg. And I tried to absorb all of that. And it was the first time that I realized that I had something within me that connected. So that's where the art all started. Now, let's fast forward to the ninth grade, going to Goodwin junior high school, one of six black students. I will tell you that that was not the first time that I realized that I was black. But it was in fact, the first time that I realized that being black made a difference. And it was difficult to calibrate the realities of what I was experiencing at that time. And as I said, these tremendous messages of inferiority on a daily basis was more than I could take. And I turn off to school all the way through high school, summer school, summer school, I don't even graduate with my class. I graduated in summer school. And that's what's so significant is to look at those missteps that I experienced, and then to get to do some of the things that I get to do today. What's the message there, Greg? As long as we do not allow our past missteps to define us, we're gonna be okay. And we all have them. Well,

Greg Voisen
let's talk about this for a second because you have had an opportunity as an artist and a businessman to listen deep with inside of you. And there's four genres that I cover on the show. And one is personal growth. And one is Wellness, and what is spirituality and what is business? And intuition plays into that. There was a great quote, and you've been put on boards to help solve problems and provide advice. And I remember this quote, from Einstein, if I had an hour to solve a problem, I'd spend 55 minutes thinking about the problem, and five minutes thinking about the solutions. Okay. So my question for you is, if you, yeah, if you had fewer five minutes thinking about the solutions, but 55 minutes thinking about the problem, okay, spending

Larry Thornton
the problem? Exactly.

Greg Voisen
Wow, have you as an artist and businessman and successful entrepreneur, and now author, thought about your problems, so that you could spend that five minutes on the solution?

Larry Thornton
Well, the Institute, I think, gives us an opportunity to spend on solution. And we can talk about it a little later, if you'd like, I'd love to tell you what we've just finished two weeks up with within the schools. But you know, one of the things that I have concluded, in my own experience, Greg, is when I go into the inner city schools, now rarely do I talk about your respective area of discipline, I don't think it's very important to declare an interest. But what I have found, having served on three corporate boards, serving at the highest executive levels in these corporations, that's what's far more important than that. In fact, if you were to ask me, how do you How does an artist, a guy with an art degree, you know, end up serving on corporate boards and owning restaurants. And yet you and I know individuals who have MBAs hanging on their walls and can't seem to run a lemonade stand? So what's the difference? I'll give them to you. And I'm a firm believer that if we can master these five elements, just about anybody can write his or her ticket to success, relationships, skills, communication skills, demeanor, disposition, deportment, if we master and constantly, I would argue that programs, organizations, corporations have little choice but to place high premiums on those individuals who are constantly honing that relationship skills, communication skills, how do you deport yourself, checking your demeanor, those are the tenants that I think, played a significant role in propelling me to the levels that I get to enjoy today.

Greg Voisen
Well, those five things, those five things are really, really significant. And I appreciate it, it's so important what you just said, and for my listeners, I hope that you took that in, and you will go get a copy of Larry's book, so that you can learn this. Now, a minute ago, you talked about winning, and I think Winning is important. And obviously the book is why not when but you know, in a world that we've seen evolved since the time you started in grade school and went through junior high in high school. The, you know, we're now looking at, you know, it used to be competition. Now, it's cooperation, you said caring, right? And I'm going to just add to that compassion. The Dalai Lama says the only thing that's going to actually solve our world problems is for us being more compassionate. Now, to be a compassionate person, it requires that you have very good human skills and a working with people. It also requires and I want to this is where I'm going with this question is to have a belief in something greater than yourself. You know, the, the spiritual side of you What is it because when you get this inspiration to draw a painting, people tell me they write books, I just helped finished another book called the precipice of life. You know, it flows through you. It comes down through you, I believe this with the essence of my heart. What has been your experience with finding a higher source, listening to your intuition, and then following that guide to make a decision about something because even the greatest Leaders, the greatest entrepreneurs, we've seen Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, they all talk about intuition. And they say that's the number one thing that they've used in their business career to help them win.

Larry Thornton
Yep. Well, we are a part of a universal experience. And when you talk about God, I mean, God means something different to as many people that are different. But we are a part of a universal experience. And we can choose to believe whoever created this experience. But we are locked into this experience. In my opinion, this is just my experience. Physics. For instance, if I were to go back to school today, I'd make an AI based physics because I love it. I see it every day. So if you were driving down the interstate at 85 miles an hour and you decide to take a quick left or right, physics will take over a pretty picture. Anybody steps off of the roof of a 10-storey building doesn't matter your what your faith is, or if you have no faith, we are locked into this universal experience. And my belief is this. Greg, by the way, my granddaddy would plant one seed of corn. And if he goes back to the field, no matter that he no matter how steeping the meal, chop the weeds, the same weeds fight the bugs all summer long. He's going to get from that one seed and entire stock of corn that yields two to three years of corn. Each year, I counted them, Greg each year bearing 550 to 600 kernels, that is a huge return on your investment. Well, I believe this, when we invest well into this universal experience, how do you invest well into the universe, kindness, mercy, forgiveness, empathy, integrity, honesty, patience, there's a compounding return to you very much like the seed of corn. Now, I believe that with all of my heart, and when I look at some of the serendipitous occurrences, and these positionings, in my life, to have Miss Cooke as a second grade teacher, to have a senior teacher, this white woman, and I write about her rather gratuitously in the book, and the impact that she had to go out of her way into this racial climate, to make a difference in my life to put me on a path of winning. So my motivation every day, is to create winning opportunities, I don't speak of winning, from a sporting contest perspective, my approach to winning is creating winning opportunities for those around us. And if we make our lives about other people, intuitively, naturally, beautiful, wonderful, other people tend to make their lots about us. And I love getting the credit for some of the things that I do. But listen, it's nothing more than this compounding return of many, many years of investing well into this universal experience.

Greg Voisen
Well, look, you learned well, from your grandfather, you take seeds or kernels of corn, and you plant them, and you then nourish them and support them and give them water and let them grow. And that brings me to your institute. Why not when dot O R G for all my listeners, that's where you want to go as to why not when o r g. Now, the purpose behind this institute, let our listeners know what it is they're doing, they can obviously go to your website. But tell them what it is that you're doing with the kids in school, and the opportunities that you're providing for them, obviously, and these aren't just black kids. This is everybody. You're not discriminating across the course of the planet on what happens here. So I think it'd be a good idea for the listeners to know about the Institute, and what your really big mission is. And I should say your big purpose in life. Because this is Larry's biggest purpose is the institute.

Larry Thornton
Absolutely. Everything that I've done, has created this current experience. If you had asked this question, Greg, at the beginning of your presentation, we'd still be talking about the institute because here's where the value is. I will tell you that prior to writing this book, I was getting ready for my retirement. My son is doing very well in the business and positioning him and all but this book comes along and change Is the trajectory of my path. If anybody told me that I'd be working this hard for free. At this point in my life, I would never, ever have believed it. But I wake up every single day thinking about why not when. So, after the book, Dr. Flubaroo, the lady who wrote the introduction to the book comes back to me, she's in secondary education. And she says, Larry, “I've read the manuscript, and I've got the introduction, but I think we have something here. He said, I have extracted over 100 quotes from your manuscript.” And I'm like, I'm not thinking quotable stuff, as I'm writing. But she has subsequently written a curriculum, we have been on over 40 college campuses, taking the message and the tenets from this book. But here's my favorite illustration. We went to East Tennessee State University. This is a 97% majority institution. We're working with our honors students. And by the way, two universities, East Tennessee State being one and Kennesaw State have a course Greg, they're teaching the name of the course is why not when, if my senior English teacher could know that the boy that she couldn't get to read a book has written a book that colleges use as credited course. But in this particular setting, I gotta tell you this, we had 18. This is a Johnson study Appalachia area, we had 18 honors students, three of which, who said to us, I've never met a black person, before the two of you all came to present. Well, that stuck in my throat, Greg, what we have put together and it's about to happen this fall has already started to happen. East Tennessee State University is being partnered with Tennessee State University and HBCU. And those two honors students, we just kind of closed the deal about maybe two months ago, and they are working with each other right now. They will spend two to three days on each other's campus. The value that that's going to add to a better community is so significant to me, because now I'm exposed. I rather than going to London, let's say for Foreign Studies, how about let's just going down the street. And if this model pans out, then we can see some tuskys and Auburn's weekend see some southern universities at Nellis, us. So there's so many opportunities, but this but I'm loving that opportunity of exposure to bring people together right quickly, we just came off of a two week tour with Birmingham City Schools, I visited all eight schools 10th graders, they bought 2800 copies of this book. And we had a chance to go in as the author I mean, these kids so desperately needs to see the example not someone who's looking down, not someone who's had it good all of his life, but to talk about my academic missteps, only because somebody in those classes needed to hear that we think that we made some significant brown last two weeks with that. So love what the work that we're doing through the institute, well,

Greg Voisen
I really want to acknowledge you for being a great soul on the planet, delivering a wonderful message that's getting out to people for you and your institute. You taking the opportunity to build a nonprofit and undertake and team up with a lady to build a curriculum, and then to take that curriculum and share it with all these universities. But I think there's another element and it's the experiential part of it, you know, experience is so important in how we learn. In other words, we can take a book and learn from a book, I get it I, I got plenty of those. But when the course has this experiential element, where people team up and they learn from one another, and they learn from that mentor, that is really the key to the success of any program that you have. And I'm glad that you found that magic key and put it together and made it made it all happen. Do you want to say something?

Larry Thornton
Just want to say that I think the universe kind of found me I was minding my own business running my restaurants. But I want to drop these breadcrumbs, if you will, and some aggression, some direction as to how more people can win because in the South, as I looked around, I didn't see very many blacks serving on corporate boards. I didn't see very many women serving on corporate boards. And so you want to kind of share those tenants that work and in the process of doing that. Here's what has happened right now, I will tell you that the corporate community is really about to usurp the position of the collegiate space that we work in. We've got four or five corporations now that say, hey, we want to win too. We want to know more completely. What are those tenants? What are the next steps are winning? Everybody wants to win. But you have way more to do with that process than you think?

Greg Voisen
Well, this book and your website, why not when dot o RG is where I want to direct my listeners to. This is an opportunity for them to take the next step from not just reading a book, but really acting on the book. In other words, making this book become this and the curriculum, the course. But more importantly, bringing people together in an experiential nature, to learn from one another, which is what Larry has created here. And I just want to acknowledge you, and the Institute, your executive director, all the people that you've been able to put behind you to make this happen. Because it your team is really, really important to the success of this. And I want to thank you for being on inside personal growth and spending some time with our listeners today. And again, for my listeners, why not? When is the book, Larry Thornton is the gentleman to learn more about him and his business background, read the book, but to learn more about his Institute, and how you can make a personal impact. Go to the institute, contact them, learn more about the curriculum, and learn more about how you can actually spread this because Larry is all about sharing this with the world. Right, Larry?

Larry Thornton
That is absolutely right. And thank you so much for this opportunity to share the work that we think that we do to make lives better for somebody else.

Greg Voisen
Okay. And what I'd like you to do is, give me those five tenants, again, if you could leave them with our listeners, because it's so important that they understand if you were to leave them with things that they could take away right now from our 40 minutes together. What would you like to leave them with?

Larry Thornton
No? Well, again, I have no other explanation as to how a gentleman with an art degree who had such academic missteps could end up doing some of the things that I get to do today, except for having a keen focus on a daily basis on sharpening these five areas, communication skills, relationship skills, demeanor, deportment, disposition, those are the tenants that I think will propel most of us right up to the next level. And if we continue that process, then there's another level, I will close by saying to you, you've been very kind to share some of the things that I've been able to do in my life. But I'm telling you, right, this very moment, I'm waiting for the next chapter of my life. I can't wait to learn what am I going to do next? And I'm looking forward to it.

Greg Voisen
Well, it's emerging as we speak here. And all you have to do is see what might seem like an open canvas and start to put the pieces and parts together of the puzzle. And if there's anybody that can do it, it's you Larry Thornton, thanks for being on inside personal grow. Namaste to you. Thanks so much for the opportunity.

Larry Thornton
Appreciate you my new friend. Thanks