Greg Voisen
Welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. This is Greg Voisen, the host of Inside Personal Growth. And joining me from Dallas, Texas, is Jan and Jillian Yuhas. And here's the book Boundary Badass, and the subtitle is "A Powerful Method for Elevating Your Value and Relationships. Well, good day to you both. How are you?

Jan Yuhas
How are you?

Jillian Yuhas
We're great.

Greg Voisen
Good. It's good to have you on the show. And obviously, as twins, you look like twins.

Jan Yuhas
We are identical twins.

Greg Voisen
Who was born first?

Jillian Yuhas
I was.

Jan Yuhas
Jillian.

Jillian Yuhas
We're three minutes apart.

Greg Voisen
Three minutes, okay. Well, good for you guys and for my listeners, we're going to be both talking about the personal side of this and the business side as it relates. And I want to give our listeners a little bit of information about you. Both of you are MA and MFT marriage and family therapists, and you inspire individuals on a transformative journey to build remarkable relationships, elevate their value and master the art of setting boundaries. I think that setting boundaries, part you guys is the one that most people have the hardest time with, packed with practical advice and techniques individuals can navigate challenging conversations. I just had a lady on with right now, radical candor. How about that? Can we be candid? And I hope we're going to be candid in this podcast, conversations with ease and cultivating more alignment in your relationships with your family, romantic partners, colleagues, friends and more, and their collective wisdom at boundary badass method will create a path toward unlocking success in personal and professional relationships. Again, you can learn more about Jillian and Jan at www, Jan and jillian.com and I think they did that based on the birth order. Is that? How that got who got billing there? No, no,

Jan & Jillian Yuhas
No, no, it's based on alphabetical order.

Greg Voisen
Alphabetical order, okay, well, that is really a great introduction for you guys. And look, the story behind the story is, I always like to get this out for readers and listeners to the YouTube, what really kind of inspired you to go down to this boundary, badass method, and how has your personal journeys, each of yours, kind of influenced the development, not only of the book, but of the business that you run, which is coaching counseling, that people can go to the website and connect with them and hire their services. How'd that all come about? Yeah,

Jan Yuhas
so we have a little bit of a personal background and professional that led us down our journey of helping people set boundaries and consulting with professionals and families in regards to conflict resolution. Our personal story is we grew up in a rural town of 900 people in the middle of nowhere, moved to a metropolitan city of 3 million and that was a huge culture shock from us. We were a little bit naive and a little bit too trusting of everybody that we welcome into our life, and we learned the hard way that we needed to have stronger boundaries. And so that kind of became our personal pain point in life, and we figured out how to powerfully transition into finding and bridging the gap in our personal relationships, whether with friends or romantic partners. From a professional standpoint, we volunteered at a crisis hotline for teens who ran away from home for about three years. That inspired us to into conflict resolution and inspired us to get our masters in marriage and family psychology. That later on, fueled us into developing our boundary badass method, in running our first entrepreneurial business, and later on, we went into helping others learn how to set boundaries by applying our method, and that inspired us to write our book

Greg Voisen
well. So question would be, Do the two of you have, like, an office where people come or do you do most of this off of zoom or, I mean, you said you started with young kids who ran away, right? And I hear that loud and clear. That's a really tough one. Between the relationship with the parents and the child, or a sibling and a child, or whatever really instituted that. And so how do people basically work with the two of you?

Jillian Yuhas
So we work with all of our clientele online, across the board, at all of our three companies that we have, and so we do virtually zoom or calls, and we're able to really help people navigate the disconnects or discord in their relationships with the people that they're coming to us about. And so we've been able to help people globally, around the world, just by able to be virtually online,

Greg Voisen
no cool and YouTube channel. Can my listeners pick up on some of your conversations that you've had, or at least the learnings through a YouTube channel that you guys have?

Jan Yuhas
Well, you actually don't have a YouTube channel. We have lots of different blog. We're more writers. Hence our book wrote. So most of the time people can hear us in terms of when we're on podcasts. We've been doing a podcast tour or through lots of our different writing materials, on our blogs, on all of our websites, good.

Greg Voisen
Well, they'll be able to hear them from our podcast, because we're going to dive right into this. So if you would look I remember this from the guy who wrote, and this is personal relationships, not business right now, but men are for from Mars. Women are from Venus. He was on the show a long, long time ago, and one of the statements he used to say, Would you rather be right, or would you rather be in love? And I think one of the two things that happens in a personal relationship is this brightness, and then people give ultimatums. They don't really set boundaries. They just say, Well, I'm right and you're wrong, right? It's like, okay, so can you elaborate on why boundaries are more effective for maintaining healthy relationships.

Jillian Yuhas
So when it comes to setting healthy boundaries, you're coming from a we mindset, where you're actually trying to bridge the gap between two different perspectives, so each person has a voice in that discussion, where that way, you're trying to figure out, how can we come to a middle agreement, or one that's mutually beneficial for the relationship, that's going to allow both people to chime in and like, Okay, I prefer this perspective. The other person has this perspective, and then finding that middle ground, that's where the negotiation part takes place. But then you end up forming this beautiful agreement that allows both of you to honor the relationship in a way that allows you to move forward.

Jan Yuhas
Yeah, and each person feels heard and understood. Where, if somebody's setting an ultimatum, they're projecting conditional terms onto the relationship. And what happens when we project if you don't do x, then y is going to happen consequences, more than likely, that person is going to feel backed into a corner, and they're not going to feel heard or understood. And so when we set ultimatums or unilateral from a unilateral perspective, it's actually creating distrust and resentment in that connection.

Greg Voisen
Well, it's really our ego frequently saying, I'm right, you're wrong, and perspective, and unfortunately, everyone's got an ego, but you've got to learn how to live with it. Doesn't mean it's going to go away. It just means you need to kind of control it. And I often think that if people, when they were either in an argument or disagreement, would take a deep breath, just breathe in, take a moment before they say that thing that puts the foot in their mouth to somebody else that they care about and respect on a team and business, or your spouse or your lover, or whoever it might be, because those are this comes down to what you talk about is value, and in chapter three, you discuss the importance of becoming invaluable. How does recognizing one's value influence the ability to set effective boundaries? Because frequently, when people think they're so valuable, right, from an egotistical standpoint, like whatever I say is great, whatever you have to say, I don't even hardly acknowledge it. That creates all kinds of problems. Could you speak about that if you would?

Jan Yuhas
You know, often when someone's operating from their ego, they're operating actually from a place of emotion. And what we want to do is shift to our value system, because then we're operating from a place of logic, believe it or not, because that's our heart centered thinking when we operate from a place of value, and values are universally understood by both parties, where emotions are often misunderstood, because it's usually just that person's perspective. So someone who's operating from their ego or feels entitled is actually coming from a place of insecurity and. Not and is not having a demeanor of being high value. It's actually the opposite. And so when we're high value, we're operating from our core value system, and that's our authentic truth, in order to meet our needs, but in a constructive way.

Greg Voisen
So what are some of those emotional triggers, and how do we maintain kind of healthy boundaries, because people can be emotionally triggered by a lot of different things, right? That set us off about the way somebody actually brushes their teeth, combs their hair, does some something at work, performs something, and it gets under people's skin a lot of time because they allow it. What kind of emotional triggers can we actually shift and utilize to maintain healthy boundaries?

Jillian Yuhas
So, I think if someone's feeling like ignored or feeling, you know, feeling like they're not be are being dismissed. They might value communication. So our emotional triggers are the opposite of our value. So we want to identify our top five values when it comes to the workplace and professional relationships, or even in our romantic relationships or friends and family. So trying to identify those top five values can be really helpful. And so when it comes to certain triggers, our triggers are the opposite, but our values meet those emotional needs of those triggers. So if you feel maybe abandoned or betrayed by someone, for instance, you might Value Trust, or you might value connection, so understanding that your value is the opposite the trigger, which is also going to help you meet your needs when communicating from a place of value.

Jan Yuhas
Also, our emotional triggers, a lot of times, may not even be relevant to the situation we're dealing with in the present moment. A lot of times, these emotional triggers we have are unresolved wounds from childhood that are being projected onto our current relationships today, and that's usually because that person hasn't healed that underlying trigger that they went through. And so it's coming out from being suppressed for so long. And so if a parent, for example, ignored you growing up, and you didn't have a voice today in your romantic relationship or in a professional relationship, if you feel that somebody is ignoring you and not letting you have a voice that's going to re bring up that trigger that you went through if it hasn't been healed.

Greg Voisen
So look, adverse childhood experiences are something that you know. It's, I'm not saying it's commonplace knowledge, but obviously, with you guys being marriage, family counselors, you understand this and just therapists and you know, people take that test for Ace, they're going to see things that adversely either they're going to rank on a scale one to 10. Hey, I'm a 10. And the reality is, I had a lot of crap going on, right? And at Kaiser, they did a study with 144,000 people, and they found that a lot of they started to utilize this, just so that you guys realize this, and you probably do. You know, when men or women that would come in that were overweight, right, they were trying to affect healthcare costs with the ACE adverse childhood experience, most women were gaining weight because they wanted to be pushed away because something happened. They were raped early on, they had an adverse childhood experience with somebody so on. So that, that brings me to this, do you guys work with people when it comes to these adverse childhood experiences, and if so, how do you get to the deep, underlying emotional conditions that are causing this, which are really affecting their ability to actually, even, you know, emotional triggers or to set some boundaries.

Jan Yuhas
So we actually, we actually work as coaches and as consultants, not as therapists. So when we are working with people, we will, more or less, are in helping them work through problem solving in order to figure out how they are going to put new habits into place to move forward, and sometimes, if there is adverse patterns or unfavorable habits that they're engaging in, such as maybe procrastination or perfectionism, most of those adverse behaviors come from some sort of childhood wound. So that's when we will get into the deeper context of why maybe that person feels not worthy of having success, and why they are procrastinating, and maybe that's why they're feeling like a failure in that moment. So that's where it comes down to their belief, core belief system. And so then that's where we get into the deeper root cause of what's holding them back from reaching success, romantically or professionally?

Greg Voisen
Okay, that's valid. I've told this story before, but you know, as as a young person, I still today avoid conflict as a result of conflict that happened in my family between my mother and my father. So I got involved in the middle of it once, when I was seven years old, my dad picked me up by my shirt and threw me against the wall and said, Don't you ever come in between your mother and I again. So as a very young person, that's a very impressionable time in your life. And I can tell you that I was really shaking afterwards and didn't really know what to do. And I'm sure that this has happened in 1000s and 1000s of households. But then people don't really realize, well, you know, I avoid conflict as a result of that, honey, you know, they don't make, they don't make the correlation between that, right? It was like, hey, that happened when you were seven years old. You're now x years old, and you're still avoiding conflict, you'll do anything to avoid conflict, right?

Jillian Yuhas
Right. Our adult behaviors and patterns and the way we operate is usually a reflection of some of our childhood and so if we don't work through those childhood wounds that may be unresolved, they are going to show up in our adult life, and they tend to actually will get worse with tying the more we ignore them or suppress them.

Jan Yuhas
Yeah, because most of our belief systems and thoughts are developed from around infancy to age seven. Now, obviously we can go through traumatic events as we age and older, experiences that can still leave an impact on our belief system. But really our core, core fundamental beliefs are usually from embassy up to age seven.

Greg Voisen
Yeah. And I think one of the ways to heal, what for me, was kind of Gestalt therapy. What is it that my father didn't know? And for me, when I took the role in the chair in Gestalt therapy, that playing the role of my father, I really understood, and then it really, it really helped me to heal. It really helped me to get beyond it. Now, you guys explain the concept of we mindset versus me mindset? Well, obviously we see one is as a whole and one is as an I, meaning I when it comes to sounding boundaries and relationships. Can you explain the concept?

Jillian Yuhas
Yeah, so the whole we mindset sort of derived, because as twins in business, we've always had to consider how our decision making process may impact the other one. And so we've always consulted or thought about, you know, what does that look like if we make this decision now, sometimes in our personal lives too, we might also reflect and think, How am I making decision? Is it going to pack impact my, you know, sibling and a lot of times, if we think about making decisions selfishly, we actually may hurt someone or hurt the connection or relationship. So when we're making decisions that involve another party, we actually need to think about how it could impact the other person and what their perspective may be as well, because if we come from a mean mindset and only thinking of ourselves, we could actually damage the connection.

Greg Voisen
Yeah. So question as twins, this is awful wall question in minute, that the two of you ever get tired of one another?

Jan Yuhas
Everyday.

Greg Voisen
Everyday. How do you manage that emotional bridge where you could come back together again and go, oh, okay, I I'm without my twin, right?

Jillian Yuhas
I think, yeah, I think that's just sort of, if you're in business with a twin, that's very common, and I think too a lot of even sisters experience the you know...

Jan Yuhas
Lot of family businesses are going to have family dynamics that also play out in the, you know, functionality of the foundation of how the business operates. Um, yeah. But we, we we have our clearly defined roles. So it's not that we, I mean, we think differently. So that's usually, I think, where we might have clashes. I'm a big picture thinker. She's a more detailed thinker. So sometimes we're like, I don't get your perspective, and she's like, I don't get yours. So then we have to, you know, work through that and communicate to figure out what's the next step in sometimes we're saying the same exact thing, or have we always, usually have the same end goal, but how we get there is a little bit different.

Greg Voisen
So yeah, your personality profiles must be pretty interesting that you took. I'd love, I'd love to see those. So in your experience, what are some of the most common boundary violations that people face in personal and professional relationships, and how can they really address them? So let's, let's use the business relationship as one here to look at a boundary violation. Can you tell us a case or a story where you worked with somebody is working in a team, and there were violations of boundaries, and this affected the relationship, not only of the two individuals, but actually the other people inside the team.

Jillian Yuhas
Yeah, so when it comes to working with teams, if you have a team leader who thinks that they're in charge and in control, sometimes they not. May not be respectful. Example of other members. And so in that moment, whenever you have two team members sort of at their wits end with each other, it can definitely derail productivity and performance amongst other team members, because it's going that conflict itself is going to bleed into other areas of you know, team projects. And so when it comes to working with teams, we need to help understand how come even the team leader thinks, even though they may be the lead, it doesn't mean you treat people below man who or that, yeah, inferior. It doesn't mean you're the superiority person, but the same time you should be leading and showing and setting the more or less example of, how can we all collectively come together and work as you know, collaborate, collaboration and team effort. And so being a leader actually means talking with your team, not talking at your team, or thinking they're below you, and so teaching them how to understand each other better and use discovery questions. It's just key to understanding, getting to the root of that conflict, and then setting boundaries around collaboration and teamwork.

Greg Voisen
Anything you want to add or no?

Jan Yuhas
No.

Greg Voisen
You're the big picture thinker. So look, we, we, we did talk about this, but you talked about the unresolved childhood words, which, which, I was just telling about one of my own on adult boundary setting. So for me, what happened is I set the boundaries that said, Hey, I don't want conflict, right? That was my boundary. How can individuals begin to heal these wounds, to establish kind of healthier boundaries? Because for me, it doesn't always work when I try and avoid conflict.

Jan Yuhas
Well, conflict is inevitable, so trying to avoid it is gonna you're setting your kind of self up for failure in that moment, because we instead, we have to figure out how to effectively resolve the conflict. So even if conflict, yelling or screaming or whatever, makes you feel uncomfortable, we need to figure out in that moment, you might think to yourself, Okay, this does not I don't feel comfortable the situation. What can I do? And so in that moment, you would express like, you know, what, like heightened emotion or yelling and screaming really makes me feel uncomfortable. I need to take a step away from this. And I'm going to, you know, take a break, and then let's revisit this when we've all calmed down, like tomorrow morning or tomorrow night or later that day. So in that moment, you're setting a personal boundary for yourself, because you can't handle the escalated, you know, screaming or yelling, but you still want to revisit it, that conflict, which is the key component, is to go back and resolve the problem when everybody's calmer.

Jillian Yuhas
Also, too, you could set a boundary in that moment and say, you know, it seems like we're not hearing each other, or we're not on the same page. I value constructive communication. How can we talk in a way that shows respect for each of our perspectives as we navigate these differences?

Greg Voisen
Yeah, those are good points. And I think, you know, it one of the things that I learned in getting my degree in psychology was, you know, kind of repeat, this is what I heard you say, Right? Is this what I heard you say, so that the other person is being heard and felt like they're being heard and in and in my case, I I'm using myself as a guinea pig here. But I think it's not an uncommon one. I bet you there's a lot of people like me that literally avoid conflict, or say, hey, let's revisit it at a different time. And frequently it never gets revisited. It Like It ends with just, oh, we were going to revisit that, you know, emotional upset. But people don't traverse the bridge again, to come back together to try and do a we approach to it, right?

Jillian Yuhas
Why? I think it's, yeah, that's why I think it's important to set a time or day of when you're going to revisit, if you're able to have that conversation in that moment, so that way it's you're not shoving the problem under the rug and saying, I'm just going to avoid this. You're saying, you know, this isn't we're not hearing each other right now, so we're not going to able to come to a resolution. How about we revisit this tomorrow at noon, so where we can both have a discussion to each of us bring our three perspectives that we can work through to try to find that mutual middle ground that we both can live with.

Jan Yuhas
Yeah, the key is the follow through, and in terms of establishing a plan of action, that's where I think a lot of people fall short in their boundaries, is they say they're going to do something, but there's no plan of action in place of how that need is going to be met. And so the plan of action is the key component to following through on agreements and having integrity with who we are as individuals, because that's our character showing up.

Greg Voisen
Most certainly. And I think that plan of action is so important when people are trying to resolve conflict or do almost anything, because you know, as you know, when somebody reaches an impasse or they can't make a decision or they can't move forward. Forward, they'll just push it to the side for a while, and it gets put in this in basket that's like literally piling up with stuff that that is still sitting there from six months ago, whatever it might be, just because they didn't want to do it now.

Jan Yuhas
I was just gonna say, and when we stay silent and we don't address these things, it actually shows up in other areas of our life or shows up as physical symptoms within our body. And we can develop autoimmune conditions. We start to develop like, you know, anger gets stored in the liver, fear gets stored in the kidney. So all these emotions don't just, like, go away, they get stored in the body. And then we can start to have physical ailments due to the unresolved emotion.

Greg Voisen
Well, I really appreciate your mind, body, spirit connection. And for my listeners, that's important, because we do know that whatever upset you have shows up in the body in some way, right? So whether it be, you know, it triggered an emotional some, something very emotional triggered a response in your body. So you had a pain in your knee or your leg or your back, or your kidneys, or whatever, we do know, it shows up. So in the book, you talk about the importance of communicating and communication and cultivating connection. Obviously, we all know that. But how can assertive communication transform relationships when setting boundaries?

Jillian Yuhas
So assertive communication is using a medium pitch, tone of voice, and you're coming from a place of constructiveness, so you're trying to, even though you might be very honest and transparent, and you the receiver may not want to hear certain things, but at the same time, you're trying to also be respectful of how you do convey your message. And so assertive communication is the best way to actually address problems, because you're not raising your voice, you're not being manipulative. You're not, you know, throwing stones under you know at them passively. You're not being submissive and just complying to whatever it is that they're saying, but you're really speaking authentically according to your truth and your value, which allows people to actually listen to what it is that you have to say, because you're showing up very competent, and you actually trust and believe in yourself that your message is worthy of being heard, and you're actually trying to resolve the problem by approaching it very respectfully in a sort of manner.

Greg Voisen
So look, your your book says that our voice is our power, right? And and I think that that's true. And I'll add to that, I think when people can learn to convey the message in an effective way, right? So even as a negotiators or even a podcaster, right, like me, it's like, how do you get the most important message across to accentuate that so people understand it, remember it, and know what it was, right? So the book that the yearbook discusses the challenges of maintaining consistency and boundary setting, I would say that's a key. What strategies would each of you recommend for individuals struggle struggling with this to basically maintain consistency. It's like, okay, one a day, I'm this way. The next day, I'm that way. You're unpredictable. You haven't set clear boundaries, right? It's there's, I would say that's probably in 90% of the cases, most people, it's issues is because they waffle from day to day on the boundaries they set.

Jan Yuhas
Yeah, if we're waffling day to day, then we're usually operating from our emotions and not from our values. So one of the exercises in the book is aligning to your value, assisting your top five values on a day to day basis. And you align to them by taking specific actions in your day. And they can be very simple such as, like, you know, I valued communication, so I let my friend know tomorrow night that I was going to be running five minutes late because I had a work meeting that I that was going to run over to meet her for dinner. So you're writing down simple alignments to your values on a day to day basis, because you're creating your authentic truth and aligning your integrity to your value system. So when you do show up in your relationships, it becomes much easier to set boundaries, because you are valuing your truth based on your core values, and communicating that if someone crosses your limits, it's going to go off in your body like an alarm system, and you're going to be like this does not feel good to me, what value do I need to express right now in order to be heard and understood and respected in that situation.

Greg Voisen
And or what value has been, I don't want to say compromised, right?

Jan Yuhas
Correct.

Greg Voisen
Because, you know if, if, usually people say, Well, I set a list of them. Values. And you would say, well, over the years, have those values changed? You're hopefully saying, No, the values haven't changed that much, just like your purpose, your purpose in life that you define, or your vision in life, or your mission in life, or your values that you have, all of that kind of gets lumped together even in the corporate environment, so that the corporations can create alignment of people moving in a singular direction toward a vision that the company has and that people understand that, and actually communicating that becomes a very big part, but not deviating it from it, but communicating it and staying on point with it, right? So this comes down to individuals, whether at home or at work, and it's you talk about it. It's called self worth, right? We all play with this one. How worthy Am I to really be XYZ, right? And when people start to question their worth, they then start to get how do you want to say again? They'll waffle right. So in boundary setting, how can individuals cultivate a stronger sense of self worth to become, as you call it, a true boundary, badass.

Jillian Yuhas
So, and this is living according to your values on a day to day basis, but then also nurturing that like self care and self love. I think it's so easy for people to go to the gym or take a walk outside and really get some of that physical care or create, you know, eat healthy meals, but a lot of people forget the self love component, which is that's where you're, you know, honoring your values, doing your value statements, also doing some deep belly breathing and really managing your emotions. Because when you manage your emotions and have that, like emotional regulation, it's so much easier, easier to effectively communicate and negotiate in your relationships. But that's also going to help you own your worth and not be fearful to speak up when there's discord or disconnects, because you're going to have this alignment with you who you are as a person, because you believe in who you are, and in order to speak up, you have to trust yourself.

Jan Yuhas
Yeah, the relationship with ourselves is the most important, and sometimes we need to do a self self reflection, like check it and go through, you know, what is not working for me in my life? How come this isn't working for me? So if we do some deeper introspection of who we are and our patterns, our own behaviors, of what is not bringing us fulfillment, then we can clarify what shifts we need to make in order to achieve greater fulfillment, whether it's in our career, whether it's with, you know, friends or family or you know,...

Jillian Yuhas
I think the biggest thing too is like our worth is in within us. You cannot find your worth outside of yourself or through other people.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, well, self love, self-compassion, self care, however you want to raise it. It is important. But I think let's go back to this for a second, because that questioning of self worth usually comes from childhood. Okay, so let's face it, hey, your parents tell you you should have been a straight A student. You weren't. You were the one that got C's and B's. You were supposed to become a doctor. So now what happens is you go out into the business world, and you didn't become the doctor. You became this great executive who made tons of money, way more than a doctor, but you're still questioning your self worth, because way back then, your parents wanted you to become a doctor. They wanted you to get straight A's. You didn't do either of those. What would you tell somebody who's sitting out there today, who's like literally looking at themselves, still questioning their self worth as a result of all of these things that they were told they believed they should have been, but they didn't become, but they actually become became more than what they were, but they still question their self worth.

Jan Yuhas
Yeah, when someone's questioning their self worth based on limiting beliefs that they've developed through childhood, then we kind of have to rewire the belief system in order to, you know, create these beliefs within themselves, that they are worthy of the success that they do have, and that they don't need to live out their parents goals or their parents vision. Their life is their own vision, and so finding acceptance with who they have become is a big part of them, learning to release the past and beliefs that no longer work for them today.

Jillian Yuhas
I think sometimes too, yeah, we have to make peace with our past and find forgiveness too, knowing sometimes our parents didn't know any better, and may try projected this expectation onto us as children into our adult life, but then at some point in time, we have to cut the umbilical cord and. Separate ourselves, knowing that our worth is based on who we are as individuals, not based on what someone else thought we should have been or wanted us to be.

Greg Voisen
I'll never forget a podcast I did with Marshall Goldsmith, who coaches some of the most highly acclaimed executives in the world, right? And you know, achievement is huge in every one of these people's lives, right? And we see them. We see them in the news. We see that sometimes they're not always great people, you know, have, you know, like Steve Jobs. Everyone said he was such a badass, right? Meaning, he was, he was not a great guy to work for, but on the other, on the other side, he would say, Hey, I'm coaching these people, and when is enough enough? You have five degrees, you're a doctor, you own two companies, you're making $20 million a year. You got Ferrari sitting in the driveway a house on the hill, and they're still saying it isn't enough, right? And so you kind of think to yourself, really, when does when can you help people make that connection that what's driving them is something that's false, not real.

Jan Yuhas
Sometimes the pain drives us to achieve great success in our lives. I think a lot of people who have reached great success have been driven by these unresolved wounds. But if you are basing your value or your self worth based on conditional terms, whether it be wealth success of reaching XYZ, you're robbing yourself of really finding your true worth and purpose in life, because your true value does not come from these things. Like you could lose all your money tomorrow. You could lose your house, your car, everything, that if you base your value and your worth on these external things, you're gonna feel very empty still on the inside, and so our true value and worth has to come internally.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, and I think we've seen it just recently that, you know, these people that are extremely driven. We just went through the Olympics. So you had Simone Biles, you had Phelps. Was there as well. All of them have had bouts with depression, deep depression, right? Admittedly, like, like, you know, because we swim 5000 miles just to prepare for this particular Olympics, because we've got to be the best that we can be. And they are extremely driven to be the best that they can be, but from a psychological standpoint, what they've found is there's it actually creates some challenges, doesn't?

Jan Yuhas
This is often due to usually, a lot of times is having an unhealthy parent, somebody with personality complexities, where the child didn't receive unconditional love. Their love was based on their achievements, whether it be in academics or extracurricular activities, sports, yeah. So when love is conditional, then they think that their worth is based on conditional terms that they are achieving in life.

Greg Voisen
You have to be the best for me to love you. Yes, that's unfortunate, but you guys have some of the answers in this book, boundary, badass. I want all my listeners to go out and get a copy. You can find more information about them, and it's just Jan and Jillian, j-i-l-l-i-a-n.com, you can go to that website, you can buy the book there. And I want to thank both of you ladies for being on the show and sharing your story, also sharing ideas and tips that my listeners could utilize. So if you're interested in contacting them about coaching, just go to that website, hit the coaching button. Also to speak. There's a speakers button there too, a book and a blog with articles. As they said, they blog more than they're on YouTube, so we'll make sure that they get you get to go to their blog. Thank you both for being on Inside Personal Growth and spending some time with our listeners today.

Jillian Yuhas
Yes, thank you for having us. We've enjoyed it.