Greg Voisen
Well, welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. This is Greg Voisen, host of Inside Personal Growth. And joining me from Tayport, Scotland is Don Johnson, the author of a new book, can you hold that one up on your phone I thought that was just clever is can be a conscious life. Believe it or not, folks, he found a company that actually put his book on there. Now, the book is also at Amazon. And it's Living a Conscious Life: How to Find Peace, Wholeness, and Freedom in a Chaotic World, just came out June 4. For all the listeners, no matter when, wherever you're getting this. There's a little video there as well. And if you want to learn more about Don, go to bemoreconscious.com. Well, Don, I'm going to let the listeners do you have a copy of the book there or just on your phone?

Donald Johnson
Well, Greg, there was a little problem with the Amazon chain, so Okay, all right. Yeah, let's leave it at that.

Greg Voisen
Okay, we'll just say, look, he's got the copy of the book up on his phone. That is clever enough as it is. So I'm just gonna say go to Amazon. You can order it now. And you can get your copies through Amazon now. So, Don is a former business and sales leader turn it turned writer, transformational coach, and leadership consultant, but that's not the most interesting part of this gentleman. He is a top writer for medium.com, telling life stories and lessons learned on his journey in and out of chaos. He's also the founder of Integra group, a boutique consulting firm offering transformative coaching, conscious leadership and team building solutions. He started his career helping to open the first generation natural food store in the United States.

Donald Johnson
Bitcoin was that, was called Rainbow Grocery up in Boston, Massachusetts.

Greg Voisen
Rainbow Grocery, okay, Whole Foods was the successor.

Donald Johnson
In my dreams, yes.

Greg Voisen
So this was part of his 10 year career with Elon vital and organization that sponsored the teachings of pre bream, Red Rock, our AWS Prem Prem rahua Prem Wow, an Indian guru. Were teaching ancient meditation techniques at elan vital Dawn held positions as community director, meditation instructor and president and a then joined Zinger Miller achievement global, which is an international leadership development organization, which many of you know and was vice president of this $20 million business unit. He's got a very interesting background go look him up on his website. He's got a BA in English literature from Ohio Wesleyan University. I lives in this beautiful spot in Scotland with his wife, and is a competitive tennis player, a songwriter you can see by the guitar in the back of the screen there, releasing three albums in his spare time, you may find him painting, hiking, golfing, and learning to play boogie woogie on the piano. Well, eight, you definitely got it all going on over there. And Scotland's a great place to have it going on. And this book is your first book, is that correct? That is correct. So congratulations to you. And thanks for being on inside personal growth. And he was referred to me by Cathy Sparrow who was my partner and we wrote a book called in combination with Beau Parfit, the precipice of life, the leadership lessons that you learn from mountain climbing. So, in this living a conscious life, you emphasize the quest for inner knowledge. Can you share a pivotal moment in your life that led you to prioritize inner exploration and consciousness versus the focus on doing doing doing versus Bing Bing Bing?

Donald Johnson
Yeah, a couple of things that tie together. One when I was at college at Ohio Wesleyan University, there was a main campus building that I walked past for four years. And then on that cornerstone in that on that building, there was a little inscription called know the truth and the truth will set you free from the Bible. I believe it was a Methodist oriented school. That struck me probably about two years in and I thought what the heck is that? If there's some kind of truth that can help me under know myself? I want to know that. I didn't know how to go about doing that Greg. But one day, one evening I was sitting talking to a fraternity Brother in his room, and we were talking about God and theology and various things and and we said, we're talking about God. And he said, I don't believe in God. He said, But I believe in a life force. And when he said those words life force, something stuck. And I said, I want to know that I want to I want to know that lifeforce. That would be interesting to me. And I'm curious about that. A few months later, I met someone who introduced me to this young Indian guru at the time. And they, they they explained to me that there are some simple techniques that can take one inside, where one can know the life force, know the inner truth. And, and that was my, that was my awakening, if you will. And a few months later, I learned how to meditate go within. And that became a lifelong passion, and 11 years,

Greg Voisen
then how many years down? Did you spend in ashrams and meditating? And not that you still don't? But my point is, we're really immersed deeply. Yeah, when

Donald Johnson
I was immersed from 30, from 23 until 33. And that was, you know, a couple hours a day. And that became a big foundation for my life. And I still practice, not today, today, 50 years later,

Greg Voisen
of course you do, because it gives you the salience you need and the peace in your life. And I think it's really important. So for my listeners, whether you meditate or you do somatic breathing, or if you do yoga, or whatever it is that you do all those practices lead to open up this expansiveness to a resource that's available to everyone, which I think frequently gets shut down. And your book discusses the Power of Healing Broken Relationships. How has your personal experience with reconciliation influenced your approach to living a conscious life? Yeah,

Donald Johnson
I would actually flip the question. I would say it starts with having being intentional, which is one way to describe being conscious, which means being awake, but being intentional. So when I was about 40, I began to be I was interested in healing the relationship with my father, because I had just, I had my son was just conceived. And I said, you know, I want to, I want to make sure that I break some of the generational. More parenting, I guess you could say, that I received as a as a son from my father. And so I became very intentional about, I want to heal the relationship with my father, before he before he goes. And that set me on a path of several things that I did, that enabled my father and I to eventually after exchanging some letters, because we were estranged for about 10 years, or 15 years. And when we eventually we came together and had a very profound conversation about the past and about our contribution to the breakdown in our relationship. So the healing of that relationship, for me, was a huge step in reconciling not just the past, but also helping me learn what I could do to be a better father to my son.

Greg Voisen
You know, in many of Eastern practices, which you were in, and is taught by Buddha, as well, there's pain and suffering, then there's the end of pain and suffering. Well, the pain and suffering as that Buddha's precept talks about is our own doing. It's what we created until we can wake up to a conscious life, we won't remove the pain and suffering, whatever it might be, because there's many ways that we can bring that into our life and then make it part of a belief system and then start to think that that's the way we should be. And I think to come from a point of compassion. You mentioned this concept of Living from the heart. Dalai Lama talks about this as well. He says, This is the only thing that's going to heal this world. And we're not just talking about compassion for others, we're talking about compassion for ourselves. Yeah. Quit beating up on yourself. when is enough enough? That kind of thing? What practical steps can individuals take to align their daily actions with their hearts intentions? Because I think it's one thing to have these intention. It's another thing to get distracted by all of the doing, versus the being. And we have to be both in this world. I get that you can't just you didn't do your consulting practice by just being you had to do a lot of things in that consulting practice. And you of course, you drive and you drove hard. But you learned from driving hard, how you could flip to being the person you are today. And loving yourself more. Yeah. Yeah,

Donald Johnson
yeah, absolutely. No, you're, you're on it. No, I mean, you know, to answer your question. You know, I don't I never in the book, I don't tell people what to do, I simply share, here's what I've learned over the course of my life. And in terms of, you know, Living from the heart or connecting intention with actual practice. I mean, the things that have meant a lot to me, are simple things that, you know, you're familiar with, and I think people in general are familiar with, but it starts, I think, it starts with being reminding oneself of the good things that are happening in one's life. I do that at the end of the day before I close my eyes at night, many times, I just reflect briefly, and I say, what happened today that I feel good about. And I embrace those things. And I say that's, that's great. And I realized that there's things that I could like I could release to things that didn't go so well. When I wake up in the morning, I try to connect with my breath. I try to just feel what's what's there. And I say, I'm looking forward to a great day. And I take and I've learned Greg the hard way over the course of my life with, as you say, with all the doing, doing and pushing, pushing, how hard that is how hard I was in myself, gradually, as I got older, and through midlife, probably not too close till I was 60, that I start to like, consciously embrace the idea of self care, being easier on myself being more forgiving, and practicing that on an everyday basis. And what I what I saw was that the more that I took care of myself, and the more Kinder I was to myself, the Kinder I was to those those around me. So

Greg Voisen
yeah, that's also what happens is there's this element of you being kind to yourself, which leads to a manifestation in so many areas of your life, the opportunities become abundant, I think you pass them up, when you're moving at lightning speed, and you don't see them because the signs and symbols that are being given to you every day, you're kind of ignoring, you know, you're just going so fast. Now you have all people. And I'm not saying that you shouldn't be the person, but you spent a significant period of your time as a monk. And and how did this time in the ashram which we just talked about? Shape your understanding of consciousness and personal growth? Because I think, look, I'm an SRF. DEVOTEE, I get it. I see the monks, I think, frequently, people put them on a pedestal. I think they do that because they're like, well, these people are more godly than I am, or they know more than I do. And I'm beginning to see it different. Right? I'm beginning to see them as a vessel as an expression of who we would like to become. Can you address that?

Donald Johnson
Yeah, I can say what? I'll say this. Yes. So from the time I was 23, to 33, I lived a I lived a celibate life of chastity and obedience. And that was not because I wanted to be a monk that was because at the time to do the work involving with Alon V tall, this organization that supported Prem robots activities, one had to be it was just it was set up as a 501 C three nonprofit. So I became a monk not because I wanted to become a monk, but I became a monk in service of a greater good, which was how can we take this message of these ancient techniques of meditation that I was experiencing are given me great peace? How can we take those to the world? So I became very focused on a couple of hours of meditation each day, nightly meetings, reinforcement, I mean, I lived a very spartan life, Greg, it was very smart. I learned to live with basically nothing, no possessions, nothing. And I was quite happy. I was quite happy. So that found that was my foundation. So when I came out of there, I kept the foundation I let him I let a lot of the other things go because they weren't necessary. There's I think there's a grand illusion of one needs to be austere in order to have an experience of inner peace. It's just not true. At all. I think it's the matter of being consistent in whatever practice one does. A lot of people don't like to meditate, but they do other things. They might do breathing, they might journal, they might be in nature, they might pray, they might do affirmations. But for me, the meditation was always a foundation because it gave me a real experience and that real experience I used today.

Greg Voisen
Well, that's very well put. And you obviously have had these great experiences and are well verse to be able to write a book Living a conscious life because of your own personal story and the other people that you've touched along the way as a result of this In this section on nurturing the inner world, you talk about facing limiting beliefs. Now, I, it's an interesting one, because as a monk, I don't really think of them having very many limiting beliefs, I think they're limited enough by the environment in which they live in, because they've been sequestered in an area where the world is outside of them, right? In other words, it's like, Hey, I live in this area where it's called an ashram. And inside that opera ashram, there's certain practices, which are clearly defined. I'm not exposed to everything on the outside world. So what strategies do you recommend for identifying and or overcoming the limiting beliefs that we impose on ourselves as a result of living in the outside world? Yeah, when I say outside it, just Yeah, I mean, is the world period, I think, I think it's a comment. Just to state this, the world you lived in inside of an ashram should be for a big part, the world in which all of us will have, although it just isn't the case.

Donald Johnson
The many people that I lived with in the ashram had outside jobs and just worked, I happened to work within the organization. But I worked, I worked hard, I worked long hours in that ashram, I wasn't just sitting around, like, you know, with a little halo over my head, just like with a sheet, you know, being quiet, though, it was very active. I mean, we were, so it was doing and being but there was an emphasis on the being part. And while I was in the ashram, I couldn't, I didn't care, one hoot about limiting beliefs or anything like that. I my focus was elsewhere. It was when I got into the real world, right, and I had a family to raise, I had a wife, I had work, that's when the shit hits the fan. And, and you real and you start wondering about these things. So for example, you know, I'll answer your question, which is, you know, strategies and techniques for uncovering limiting beliefs. But, you know, I tell the story in the book about how a transformative part of my life a big transformative part of my life was, when I realized that I had some limiting beliefs that were keeping me in a relationship that was not serving the very well. And what happened was, I started to resist having a conversation with my then second wife, and I bumped into someone literally a serendipitous meeting, a matter of seconds, where we passed each other in, in, in a doctor's office. And he overheard a conversation and that began a relationship that I had with him. And when I he said to me, he said, Why, why are you suffering here with your knee or whatever? And he connected mind body, he said, There's something about the knee, from a mind body perspective, is the inability to move forward, a knee injury. And I said, That's very interesting. He said, So what's keeping you from moving forward? I said, I'm afraid of having this conversation with my wife. Why? And as we pick that apart, I began to I wrote down, what was I afraid of? I'm not good enough. I'm afraid what might happen. I don't deserve everything. And that process. That process freed me, if you will. And I went, and I had that conversation. And he says, His last words, before we split, separate from that meeting, he said, Look, he said, You're going into that conversation, thinking all hell is gonna break loose, it's going to be the worst thing that ever happened to you. Correct? I said, right. He said, that's why you're not doing it. Because you're afraid of what might happen in the future, the unknown future, the worst, imagined future is what we always what we do. He said, think about it like this. He said, tell yourself, that conversation is going to be fun, and easy. And a little voice and freeing and a little voice in my said, that is the big crock of garbage, you know, and they said, say it again this time, say it from your belly and actually mean it. And I said it again, that I went, I went back home and eventually had that conversation now. Between you and me and the listeners, was it fun and easy. I wouldn't classify it as totally fun and easy. But I'll tell you this, it was not as not as nearly as hard as I imagined it to be. And it actually was to your last point, it was free. And that conversation then that was a conversation that transformed my life. And we so we went you know, it's it's, it's a match. It's we imagined stuff that isn't true. And here's the answer. So to your question practically is, for the listeners, if you want to discover your false beliefs, what I would say is pick something where there's friction, pick something that you're afraid of doing or hesitant to do. And ask yourself, why are you not doing those things? That's one way to uncover the limiting beliefs.

Greg Voisen
But well, so here's a section in here, you're talking about finding this importance of finding peace within before cultivating healthy relationship. So did you. So how do you suggest people balanced self care? Which is what you were doing when you had that conversation? With maintaining meaningful connections with others? Yeah,

Donald Johnson
right. You know, yeah, I don't believe that, it's necessary to have inner peace before you have a meaningful relationship. So let me let me just address that. You know, in that particular article, the what I was getting at was, we carry around our own baggage, and we bring it wherever we go. And many people, you know, find themselves in relationships, and we all learn, we're attracted to some something. And many times, there's a lesson in that relationship for us to learn. And until we learn it, it'll keep repeating itself. And we know, for those of us that have been in relationships, if we don't clean up our own mess, we just bring it from one relationship to the next to the next. And inevitably, we have to get to a point where we free ourselves from our own trauma, we free it, we free ourselves up from the baggage recurring. So whether it's meditation, or whatever you might do, you know, I advocate for, do the inner work, you know, whatever it is, even whether you're in a relationship or not. But clearly, a relationship can be a mirror. And I think a good relationship is a good mirror, and it will show us what we need to learn, we get triggered, and we start to explore our triggers. So let's triggers can be like buoys they can be signposts for us to grab onto and say, What do I need to learn here? What do I need to let go of? I think, you know, I think a lot of life is not adding stuff to our, to our whole basket that we have. It's about letting go. It's about releasing things. And finding that beautiful stone within that beautiful sculpture within that raw stone. It's chipping away at the stuff we don't need. That's the way we get free. That's the way we have healthy relationships. Agreed.

Greg Voisen
Agreed. You know, I remember a long time ago going to a workshop. For some reason, I'm not remembering the author's name, but the book was power versus force. And I think you probably remember it. And what as you were talking for some reason that popped into my mind, because it was around the levels of consciousness, you're talking about living a conscious life. And there was this rating scale that said, Well, who's all the way down here at the bottom? And if if you use the Dalai Lama as being vibrating at a level, and we're going to talk about this, because you then talk about this feminine energy and male dominated world, vibrating at even a higher level and a higher level and a higher level. All that is, is our willingness to be aware, the heightened level of awareness, because many of us walk around asleep. We are asleep. But I think in one sense, that that asleep, Enos is a protection, okay? It's the way for us to protect ourselves, it's our ego, potentially protecting ourselves. So if you would talk about this impact of this female energy in a male dominated world, because I've been told by so many people that I have, and I don't know if this is true, but they always say, Well, you have equal amounts of female and male energy and you because you're very good at reading people and understanding and feeling and empathy and, and all of that and I take it as a compliment. How can men and women cultivate and appreciate this energy in their personal and professional lives? Because my, my sense here, Don is is that when you do attempt to balance this, you are you better at understanding both sexes. Okay, you have a heightened awareness about what's going on any comment there for that question?

Donald Johnson
It's a big question. And an important one. I, I you know, I was drawn to to write about that. Because for a couple of reasons, one what I came when I left the ashram I found myself With a young and psychotherapist, and he was a character, he did a quick little assessment of me and he said, Look, he said, here's, here's my analysis of you, you've come out of this, this loving this loving environment, this Ashram, you've got a big lover inflation, you've got a magician leakage, which is your protection to keep you from keep you safe. And you've got a big warrior depletion, as well, a big a big, right? Because you're basically saying you're completely out of balance Don and your shadow, you're a, you're a mess. And, and he was right, you know, so at that time, I had, I was embodying a lot of feminine energy, you know, as a monk, you know, from just focusing on devotional love, such like, so I came out and he said, Look, we need to, to, we need to get you in balance. So we began a process and he had me, he said, Look, I want you to pick a sport, I don't care what the sport is karate, chess, tennis, whatever you want. I said, You know what, I'll pick tennis. And tennis became a metaphor for me of a battleground. And it was a way for me to exercise my male energy about winning, and about strategy and so on. So that was, that was the beginning of me working on how do I integrate and find ways to balance myself. So by the time I got around to writing this article, you know, I, I've done a lot more inner work. And, you know, I was a more I was more aware of the nature of male and female energies, and we're talking, we're not talking about sexual sex here or genetics, we're talking about energy. And you know, that, and, you know, the energy of doing and pushing is very masculine. The energy of listening and being is very feminine. We have all of those energies within us. It's just a matter of where do we put our attention? And, you know, my opinion is, in this male dominated world, we the mod, the role models that we see too often are to one extreme or the other. And it's what what advice I have for people is, find people that appear to you to be more imbalanced, spend time with them, understand what they're doing, how asked how do they find balance, and this is what I continue to work on today, I try to I try to find balance, the being for me is through meditation, or being in nature, or writing poetry or doing art, or using the right side of my brain, the creative side of my brain, it's very, it's more feminine oriented, you know, left side might be more masculine. So I balance that out with sports activities or competition. But I really, I try to keep a balance. And if I get out of balance, someone like my wife, who's very got a lot of female energy, and a lot of masculine energy, she can see it just like you're saying, she can see it. And sometimes she'll call me out and said, there's too much there's too much aggression here, like, chill out, you know, which is language for dial up some more feminine energy. And I do agree it is a compliment when somebody says that to you that they find a balance. So I don't know if that's really all

Greg Voisen
I know, it is. And I'll add to that the epiphany for me, as you were speaking with, you know, people in the workaday world, which is a lot of people that listen to the show, but are seeking answers outside of that are literally trying to manage energy, period, meaning, you know, you're given so much energy during a day, you can do certain things to elevate that energy and improve it. One is through meditation because it gives you more focus gives you more direction. You're you're more even keeled you say balanced? It certainly does. Yesterday, one of the authors that was on the show took me through an hour long somatic breathing exercise, right? And you know, it's interesting how he takes you in the world and out of the world to make that happen. And when I say that, I don't mean people ridiculously think about am I going out in the world? I'm saying, Am I having more of a spiritual experience may having an experience which is like working in a business, right? It at times, it is a spiritual experience, but for the most part, it's more of a doing experience. It's where you're there to get something done. Now. There's one thing that I always learned when I got my degree in spiritual psychology was around the significance of forgiveness, forgiveness of self and forgiveness of others for things We didn't do or things we should have done versus what the other people did to us that we hold some kind of grudge against or whatever was said. What, what would you say? And how can you? How can someone start the process of forgiveness when the hurt is really so fresh and painful? A look, you know, you, you've been through, is it two divorces? You're on? Yes, yes. Okay. So you can't tell me those didn't have some degree of pain. Because one person had to tell the other person. Guess what? It's time. Right? That. That's let's end this. So So what advice would you give for people that are either going through that or contemplating it? Or they're, they're challenged by it? They're upset by it, the prospects of it? Yeah.

Donald Johnson
Yeah. You know, we go through the stages of emotion of emotion, as you know, like of grief or suffering, you know, Lizabeth moss Cantor's work and others talk about the, you know, when you go through shock, anger or resentment, it's typical, I think that we go through these phases of grieving. And it's hard to rush through the phases of it, I found each there's, you know, as human beings, there is a time to, to grieve. And it's really hard in that grieving phase to see anything more than the grieving.

Greg Voisen
What would you tell people that are in denial? Because openness to grieving, I remember doing an interview on a podcast open is to grieving. Some people, you know, you ask them Hey, well, did you grieve your father's or mother's death? Did you grieve your brother? I didn't have time? Yeah, I want to be, right. Yeah, yeah. And there's a lot of emotional hang up, they get stuck in there when we don't, right.

Donald Johnson
I agree. I mean, all that stuff gets stuck in your body, you know, this, and, and, you know, it'll, I think the, the, you know, the journey, the journey of living a more conscious life, is to, for me, my experiences, we go through these events, these life experiences, and they, they have the potential to help us grow and make us stronger, if we're willing to face them. And that's a lot of the, you know, when you talk about denial. You know, look, I'm a big, I'm a big proponent of facing and accepting one's own darkness, and not burying it. Because when you know, when the more that we bury, it does not help, we're not going to find ourselves in a place where we're forgiving. Because we get caught up in the bitterness or the resentment. And anytime I see bitterness or resentment in anyone, what I see is somebody who hasn't taken responsibility to do the work to pull themselves out of that. And it's easy to get trapped. It really, really is. And I I'm a big proponent of prayer. And when I hit rock bottom, was probably the best thing that could have ever happened to me rock bottom, meaning I realized I needed help. I needed to stop being in denial, and and take and be courageous and step forward. Was it easy? No, it was really, really hard. But that is sometimes the path that we find ourselves on. We have to face our inner our inner demons. And when we do, what I my experiences, we can be forgiving. I mean, I'm dealing with something right now that I'm not super happy about. And if you have a minute, I'll tell you about it real fast. If not, we'll we can move on. You tell me Yeah, go ahead. Alright, so here's the deal. So I've spoken out, we've talked about, you know, I lived in this Ashram and, and we have this Indian guru. I spoke out about Prem Rawat, because a lot of his behavior is not what it should be. He's actually done a lot of things that are not not acceptable for a person with his stature. And a lot of his followers have gotten very angry at me for speaking out about the truth, and not keeping it quiet. Because there's a key he's got a carefully orchestrated public image, like many spiritual leaders do. So they've come after me. And they've trashed my book on Amazon, literally. I mean, like, given me fake fake reviews, and just rip me personal attacks on me, disguised as reviews, they've not read the book, they're not ordered the book. They're just attacking me. You'll see them on there. So I'm not happy about that. However, I'm also not angry about it either. I understand. I kicked the hornet's nest. I've got to deal with the with the with the blowback now. And so I understand it. I was also I was one of those people years ago, I would have done anything to protect my beloved teacher. But when I found out about his actual character, I said, I cannot stay quiet. I'm sorry, I'll take the heat, because it needs to be said. So I'm dealing with some of that right now I'm I am doing my best to be forgiving, and to rise above the fray. And all I'm saying it's not easy, but it can be done. Well,

Greg Voisen
I think it's good that you brought it out. And for all my listeners to know that, you know, the comments that might be there before they buy your book, are definitely a result of a retribution from somebody taking action against you for something that you know is true that you spoke up for. And I think the truth will set you free. And so the reality is, is that is it the big T or the little T, right? What is your truth? What is your knowing not? What is your belief, these weren't beliefs that you were acting on? These were like your knowings that you were acting on. And you had to stand up for it. And I remember here just recently, we had Guy Kawasaki on the phone. And he did a podcast with me called Think remarkable. That was his book. And he mentioned a incident, this is this will frame you pretty good. An incident with Steve Jobs in the boardroom, around the first campaign because he was the evangelist for Apple at that time. And there was the campaign that was coming out with with Albert Einstein and Amelia Earhart, you remember it, everybody was supposed to get a Macintosh and Microsoft was going to take over the world and blah, blah, blah. So they had this ad campaign. Right? Well, so he was kind of heading up the ad campaign, the ad guy was in there and said, I have two copies of this. At the time, VHS that was 1997. And I'm going to give one to Steve Steve sitting right there and and get one to you guy. And Steve stands up and this is a great story and says to guy to Guy Kawasaki. No, you're not gonna give one to guy. You're gonna get both to me. And then guy kind of sit there and he goes, Well, what's wrong, Steve? And he Steve says, I don't trust you. And then he thought for a second. And he says it's very pointedly in the interview for anyone's listening. He said, Well, that's okay, Steve. I don't trust you either. And so what ended up happening was, and he makes a joke about it. But he said, well, that little comment or outburst he said, it cost me 10s of millions of dollars. But but the reality was, it wasn't because he got fired. It was just about the way the treatment was. But he had to stand up and say something, you know what I mean. And we've all read books about Steve Jobs. And now he is such a tough guy and a tough leader. We all know that, right? And you're now telling this about your you're the head of your Ashram, and how this leader was a little bit misbehaving or whatever he did, but it again, it's in your truth. And I think that's the most important thing is that I was there I experienced it. I know who this person is. The fact that I'm saying something is important to me, may not be important to you. But it's important to me. Now, with that being said, everybody out there listening to this show, and in your conscious life book, they're exploring these ideas of finding deeper meaning you can't find it because they're saying employee engagement is low. And people aren't feeling being fulfilled at work. They need a sense of purpose. They need a sense of meaning and work in life. What advice would you give to someone feeling disconnected or unfulfilled in their current? I'm gonna say career because I actually believe you should bring spirituality to work, which just didn't work oftentimes doesn't let people bring their spirituality, the workplace.

Donald Johnson
Yeah, I mean, there's some environments where, you know, the company will tout, like, Come as you are, and be who you are at work. And then that turns out to be not true. And then there's other companies that will advertise that. And it is true, I was fortunate in that my career I got very, I was lucky in that I worked for companies where I really felt I couldn't bring my whole self to the table. And I even though the work that I did, was, you know, in it was work that was it was helping people be better leaders that was engaging for me. However, the deeper meaning for me was always that there was always something else for me, and that was my inner work that I took in whatever job I went to. And I also took the fact that I want to be balanced. I worked really, really hard. But I always had something outside of work that I could, that was my passion that I could sink my teeth into. It might have been music, or it might have been tennis, or it might have been my family, it might, whatever it was, I found, I said, I've got to find a way, where I'm not just going to be like a robotic clone. And I'm just going to be like, you know, find myself like one of those characters in office space. I just didn't, I just I was like, No, I'm not going there. I know, I know, I'm going to pay a price for being in corporate America, I'm gonna get dirty. I'm down in the in the weeds and all that. But I'm going to, I'm going to try to do my best to have a life outside of work. And the reality of it is to if I really don't like my job, I have a choice. And this is this is like the same choice that we all have, that we sometimes forget about. We go to a restaurant, that what's the one thing that they never tell us? When you go to a restaurant, you have the option to get up and leave anytime you want, as long as you pay your bill if you ordered food, but you don't have to stay there if you don't like it. Same at a job. I get to choose, do I want to stay here and suffer? Or do I want to find another job and try to do something else? It's my responsibility to make the choice. But within that, I empathize with people who are in really tough jobs. And I say, I wish you the best to find, find love, find peace, find happiness, find something that can help you nurture your own heart, you know, through this through this period of time when you're not having a great time at work. I get it. So

Greg Voisen
well, you know, and I'll echo podcasts we recently did with Chip Conley, you know, there's this whole thing about midlife. Well, midlife is happening later and later for people. And they go, you've talked about midlife crisis where they're, they're actually questioning relationships or christening work, they're questioning a lot of different things. And I'll put a shout out to that podcast people listen to that podcast that chip does, he has a whole institute in Santa Fe, New Mexico and in Mexico, where people gathered together of these age groups and capacities to come together and talk about finding deeper meaning and purpose in both their life and work. So again, as you said, wake up, become more conscious, ask questions. And this brings me to this last question for this podcast. And that is the importance of curiosity and listening and building a better world. I think many people out there who listen to this podcast are extremely curious. And they're seekers. And I said that at the beginning of the show, and I always like to help those kinds of people, because they're looking and it's not that they're looking just to make something different. They're looking to make something better. Okay, I know thinking remarkable, is one of the ways to do that, is to really be a remarkable person to actually step out and do the things that maybe other people want. But how can individuals cultivate these qualities in their everyday interactions to foster more conscious and connected community?

Donald Johnson
Ask, what is it that I don't know? Meaning, I meet someone, and I, you know, we judge people within five to seven seconds upon meeting them, do I like them? Do I not like them? Do I feel safe around them? Do I not feel safe? And that that little moment, there is important to say to yourself, What don't I know, maybe start with that as a way to get to know someone. I did this one time and in a business environment. The first thing I got on the phone with a guy. And I said, Hey, Paul, I know this about you. But let's start with what we don't know about each other. And that was a way for him to speak and be deliberative vice, vice versa. And you know what? It's it I think about that, each day, I asked myself about this situation before I judge it. What don't I know?

Greg Voisen
That is a wonderful piece of wisdom and advice. What don't you know about someone and then train asking them the question? What is it that I don't know about you? I don't think very many people ask that. They make a lot of assumptions of what they might think they know. Only because they heard it third person, right? Oh, you know, Paul, is this or Paul, is that or you know, Don, is this or Greg is that? You know, we hear that all the time. But the reality of having a heart to heart conversation with the person themselves and feeling comfortable. And I think the key you might address is, you know, I'm curious. But I think one way to frame that is you could say Hey, Paul, I'm curious what Isn't that I don't know about you that I should know, that can make this relationship better. And it's all about how you frame the question as to whether or not somebody's going to feel comfortable answering that question or even engaging with you. So you know, with that, let me ask you this question dun dun, out of my sense of curiosity, what is it that I don't know about you that I should know about you? That would make it easier for me to better understand you as a person, and what you would like to contribute to the world?

Donald Johnson
I think, you know, you probably do know a lot about me, because you read my book, my whole life is in the darn book. But you know, honestly, I think I think what you don't know is that I feel I feel like a beginner on this path. I really do. Like, you know, I'm, I've, um, so far from I've come so far, in many ways, I've grown a lot. But boy, there's a lot more, there's a lot more to grow. And I'm, what you don't know is I'm a, I'm a learner, I want to I want to keep I want to keep learning. I'm 72, almost 73 years old. And I'm far from I'm far from being over being curious. You know, I just, I think I think that's what you know, it's just like, I'm just the guy who was driving a big piece of machinery in a stone quarry. When I started my spiritual search, and I've just had average guy, and nobody special, but I've got a thirst. I've got a thirst to know. And, and that helps me be a better person. That curiosity.

Greg Voisen
Well, Don Johnson, thank you from tayport, Scotland, for joining us today and speaking about your book, will you hold up your cell phone again? So people see the book? Yeah, my,

Donald Johnson
my, my pseudo book, because the book, the book doesn't come out in the UK until the end of July. And yeah, I'm still waiting to get my first copy. So here's my little cell phone. There.

Greg Voisen
There's his cell phone book for all my listeners, you can go to the website, we'll put a link to Amazon. It is up on Amazon. It's both in Kindle version and in paperback version. You don't it's not a hardback book, right. It's just paperback. Yeah, so enjoy this book, Don, it's been a pleasure having you on the show, providing us with Your wisdom, telling us a little bit of your life story, and providing us with some advice and expertise that many of us should follow. And if we did take a couple of tidbits from this interview, I hope that you understand that one of it's around forgiveness, the other one's around compassion and understanding, and most importantly, forgiveness of self forgiveness of others, compassion for self and compassion for other others. Thanks for being on inside personal growth.

Donald Johnson
Greg, my pleasure, thank you for having me.