Greg Voisen
Welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. This is Greg Voisen, the host of Inside Personal Growth. I would think that many of our listeners know who you are Guy Finley is joining us from Merlin Oregon. He's been on the show nine times. He and I were reflecting on that. And I was just looking at the past dates and times that guy has been on Inside Personal Growth and it goes all the way back to January 3 2009. Education The soul, then to touch the timeless mind April 7, 2009. being fearless and free, August 18, 2009, the courage to be free with Guy family, November 2010. Being extraordinary, a new model for success with Guy Finley, December 19, 2011. The seeker the search the sacred guy friendly, December 19, 2011, and the April 2, 2015, the secret of your immortal soul. And not last but not least, but close to it relationship magic. Waking up together, that one was October 28, 2018. And the last one we did which was four years ago, the secrets of success without worry, August 24, 2020. For all of our listeners, we're gonna actually put links in the blog entry. So if you want to go back and listen to some of those wonderful interviews that I had with Guy, there you go, and we'll put links to those books as well, so that you can get them. Good day to you, Guy. How you doing?

Guy Finley
I'm stunned. There's anything that you are not it is your endlessly complete with your actions. Thank you, Greg, glad to be with you again.

Greg Voisen
Well, it's good to have you for Merlin, Oregon. For all of you who don't know much about guy, he is the founder of life of Learning Foundation Center for Spiritual discovery, we are going to be giving you a prep for something that's coming up called the talk in the pines. And the reason is, is because this actually occurs underneath the pine trees is his location in Merlin Oregon. But there's other ways you can attend as well. You can attend in person to this program, you can do the replay package, or you can go for free online attendance only. I will have more details about that. And you can see the full itinerary and we'll have a link to the talk in the Pines 2024 Which this talk is about your passport to new world beyond stress struggle and useless pain. And you know, guy, you and I have been on this show so many times talking about this, and you can never talk about it enough. And I think that human condition is so wired, that it likes to find pain. So and what I mean by that is just not physical pain, but emotional pain, spiritual pain, every kind of pain that we can have. But that's our learning lessons. That's why we call it the life of Learning Foundation, because you learn from these pains. So is pain in your estimation, inescapable destiny of all human means and isn't an unavoidable part of the human experience? That's a pretty big question. I don't know who created that question. Probably you? Because I know you could riff on that one just for an hour?

Guy Finley
Look, it's such a broad question. And I think that honestly, I don't know if there is a more important one. Most of us never even come to a point Greg, where we're willing to ask ourselves, you know, I've been in this body I've had these relationships, these loves these losses 10,000 different relationships. And if I'm honest, there's been more pain than pleasure in all of them. The search for security, the wish to discover what it is that I need to know that I don't all these endless, endless dead ends. However, we want to phrase that idea. So what I intend to talk about and will do at great length over the weekend that you described is can we see as human beings, that our own lives are evident? So the fact that there is no moment that we have ever been in no moment, we can see with our eyes, that doesn't have meaning. If we can agree as a as a context, that life is full of meaning. And that our problem is that from time to time, we don't see it or understand it. But that in retrospect, we can go back and see the meaning of a moment and see that so much of the pain we went through was because we didn't understand the meaning of the moment. Can we get on that same base? Greg?

Greg Voisen
Yeah. Yeah, certainly. Because, look, when these moments that you're speaking of arise, depending on our level of awareness, or consciousness at the time, frequently, those moments were acting on emotion. And it's an emotional based reaction that then creates more pain. So like blurting out at somebody what you're feeling without really thinking about it? Yeah, and then ending up, you know, paying the price for Oh, my God, why'd I put my foot in my mouth? I know, that seems real simple. But that's where it starts, right? We're

Guy Finley
certainly all subject to that, to the whim of an unconscious nature, that is moved by the wind and doesn't know it until it's run aground to use the metaphor. So here's the here's the point, setting the stage for our conversation. If every moment, every event, every condition has meaning to it, what in the name of God is the meaning of all this pain that we have as individuals, and that we experience as a collective consciousness as humanity. Because what I want to help the listeners, the people who join the talk for us today and next month, is I want to get to the point where we start to understand in some small way, that way, the way we are now is that the meaning of the pain in the moment for us is described and defined by the reaction we have to that moment. And we take the reaction to this moment, which is always full of resistance. I want to be clear, I cannot be in psychological pain over any moment. Without something in me first summarily resisting that moment. Can we agree on that? Yeah, I agree. So here is here is a pain that is seemingly on the heels of this resistance, this reaction that is pointing to something outside of me, as responsible for this pain. And what I want to help everyone understand is that all of this time, my god millennia, this immense pain, the UNMISS, the misunderstood meaning of it feeds this constant chain of reactions that we now see flooding the world in this bipolar, self punishing condition called our culture. To where can we actually even suspect that bad perhaps, the moment of this reaction, here's what I'm leading to? Here's the reaction. It's full of resistance. The pain seems to be to the condition, when the pain can't be separated from the resistance we have to it. Can we use the energy in that pain, instead of letting the reaction and the pain use us to drive us one more time through a useless cycle of conflict with others, judging ourselves, so that all we do for all of this pain is just reincarnate and reincarnate, the same old consciousness that doesn't know what to do with the pain other than find someone to blame for it. There's a completely different paradigm, Greg, that's what I'm going to cover with you. And in the talks upcoming, where this immense pain in resistance becomes the passport to a revelation of the unconscious nature responsible for the useless reaction. I

Greg Voisen
agree with you wholeheartedly. My question might be is that resistance seems like it comes from fear. So the question is, why can't people except Except the pain so let's use an example because I think context puts it around it. We live in a world today and we've lived in a world in the past but seems to be more accentuated as a result of social media and instant news on and whatever where we see strike. even fighting we see Gaza we see things going on in Ukraine. See, you know what's happening with Israel, we see a rack we see this. Now we aren't removed from those incidences, we are not we are, we do have a choice. And this is what I say is like, in from a highest level of consciousness and looking at these things, how do I contribute within my community in my world to resolve these issues within my own consciousness, such that it's, I can come to some level of understanding and acceptance for why it is, versus me being resistant to it, and saying, God, damn those Israelis, why are they bombing their goddamn Putin? Why is he fighting with the Ukraine's whatever it might be? And this is the this is the context for this question. The context is, that is pain and suffering. People can either choose to understand and recognize the reason why. And resolve it within sign their own consciousness, or they can resist it. Now we're seeing resistance on campuses today where people are protesting this and all kinds of things. But this has gone on since the beginning of time. This isn't just today. So what the hell's wrong with us? Why can't we get along?

Guy Finley
So you suppose the question, you said, you know, the source of this resistance, you said, is this unabated fear? I want to examine that, and then I'll get into what is our responsibility? Once we've started to understand the deeper aspects of this question. There, there cannot be psychological fear. And I'm not talking about instinctual fear. I opened the door one, you know, late evening here, and there's a bear at my sliding glass door. When I see the bear, my instinctual nature is, you know, oh, my God, and then to slam the door shut. That's an instinctual fear, inescapable, it's part of the survival of the species. We're not talking about instinctual fear. psychological fear does not exist without being identified with some condition in our past. So that you cannot fear a moment without recognizing it. And you cannot recognize a moment without having some frame of reference from something in your immediate or distant past. So that this resistance that I have, to any moment that seems to challenge me, is because something in me says, You know what, you shouldn't be like that. It shouldn't go down like this. Now, I can't judge without the resistance. And without the past that it's coming from all judgment is a formulation of an unconscious nature, bringing the present moment into the context of some comparison, and then deciding by default, all quite mechanical, that this thing is wrong. And I must somehow or other, escape it, change it or be swallowed up by it. Here's the rub. And listeners, this is right down to earth. We cannot learn from any moment that we resist. The moment resistance replaces the wish to understand we are dead in the water. Because resistance by its nature is separation. resistance by its nature is something in me separating me from this condition that I don't want to experience. Are we following? Greg? What is the condition? I don't want to experience? Is it what my mind blames? Or is the condition I don't want to experience is the pain I don't want to experience within me in that moment. Yeah, this is where we begin to dig in. Because if I can make this small discovery, even just intellectually, that my resistance to this person, this place, this circumstance, this global, my resistance doesn't exist without something in me, that has separated me from what I am judging. The path to liberation. The passport to a life without struggle, is the discovery that we have this incredibly unique capacity to realize perfect similarity. have tea with everything that we meet. So that Oh, start

Greg Voisen
going oh, so guy. Sorry. But so if it is beer, and if the underlying cause of the fear, I'm just going to use an example what I think it could be, which in a lot of cases is loss, loss of something. A lot of times people can identify what the loss is first, but usually some kind of loss. Would you agree with that? Yeah. And frequently those two are tied together. Yes.

Guy Finley
But the loss of what? That's my

Greg Voisen
question, yeah.

Guy Finley
Who and what I think I am, is threatened by any moment that comes along, and doesn't correspond to how I've imagined it needs to be, so that I can be secure in my identity. So the bottom line of every form of resistance, is that something is challenging my consciousness who I think I am, when I think I own what I deserve, the moment that's challenged, suddenly, no, I don't want that. I blame you, I judge you I want to control you. The problem that we're looking at, is that I have never achieved what I attempt to overcome, because it is the consciousness that is the problem maker. And the solution to the problem making unconscious nature is a new awareness of it. So that instead of letting resistance, point me to some person or problem as the source of my pain, I understand the pain wouldn't exist without something in me insisting that moment not be the way it is, which by the way is insanity, you cannot change what is what is, is end of story. What it reveals is another story. And that's what we're looking at, can we use the moment of resistance as a moment of revelation? That's,

Greg Voisen
I would say that, that it's an awakening, when somebody can have the realization in their consciousness that this is the this pattern that they've created. And you have this, you know, your passport to the new world beyond stress, struggle and useless pain, you use the word useless pain. The question is, what is the difference between useless and useful pain? Right? In other words, it's like, hey, is there useful pain?

Guy Finley
Yes, yes. And it begins with understanding that we have been suffering, for nothing for the sake of a consciousness to use that word for the sake of an unconscious nature that keeps its continuity in place. By being in unending conflict with anything that challenges its conditioning. So that useless pain is what is is, is in our complicity. With the ongoing continuity of this reincarnation of conflict in nature, useful pain is the beginning of laying down all of these demands that are pressed upon me in that moment. So now I can begin to use the resistance as the point of revelation that it's intended, and find the invitation in that moment to let go of that useless suffering. And in that sudden shift in turning around as Christ called it metanoia turned around, that's the meaning of the word repent, in the moment that my consciousness can turn around, and instead of looking outside of itself for something to blame, see that the pain is an unconscious element in its own demands. Now we're on to something. Now we know what it means what Buddha was talking about the Four Noble Truths, all of the teachings come alive, because now we recognize, ah, I've been complicit in this. The suffering is continuous because of my complicity. I have to stop. I don't stop because I want to stop I stopped because I see if I don't, this is just going to go on ad infinitum, as it has for 1000s and 1000s of years.

Greg Voisen
So look, I happened to Google something while you were talking. Because you're a teacher. Really, your teacher was Vernon Howard did a New Life Foundation in Boulder City. Now he's been deceased for a long time. But I'm not certain if this was your first book, but the intimate enemy was really talking about the awakening to a higher awareness to provides the only truth and I know this is taking you back. Truth strength, you need to Walk into fearless future into a fearless future. Okay, now the talk in the Pines is being influenced by all of this prior wisdom knowledge that you have acquired through all of your teachers prior to you at this point. And you stated in the event that we, that you said anything is about, we don't want it is about reason for the suffering. The reason for this suffering, can you expand on it is, you know, it's like, Hey, we're not talking about your event in the pines, we're talking about the vet that triggers the pain or suffering, right. And so we I want to differentiate that from my listeners, this has nothing to do with the event at the pines, because of the event in the pines, you're going to actually release this pain and suffering when you walk away. After hearing these talks, we're going to talk about a triggering event, we're

Guy Finley
going to discover as difficult as it is for us to admit my existing relationship with pain with my God and Father who this and my mom who that my brothers who this and the wars that never end and the world upside down. And this glut group and my relationship with pain has never changed. The only thing that has changed is what I blame for it, period. If we can be honest enough to admit that to ourselves, I have a 10,000 different relationships, I'm 75 years old, 100 bad relationships a year. I mean, every last one of those pains, I have the same relationship with what to immediately resist what I said was causing that conflict. So if we don't awaken to a new relationship with our own pain, nothing will ever change for me as an individual, let alone for the world at large that you and I are a part of what is unfolding around us. That's it.

Greg Voisen
That is really what the talk in the Pines is all about everybody in DC. So not only do you get the opportunity to interface with other people in a community, who have been suffering, and your own suffering, you get to learn from all of guy's teachings, and his years and years of speaking about this, because if you really looked at, I'm just gonna call it that maybe his soapbox. his soapbox is always been about this. There's a common theme and every one of the books. If you go back to Vernon Howard, and you want to look at the teachings from where he this came from, it is he has been influenced drastically by those philosophies and teachings. And for good reason. He's carried them forward from the last generation to this generation. I don't know who cared for him after he's done. But the reality is, somebody will. The point here is is treat yourself to go to your passport to the new world beyond stress, struggle and useless pain. Now, how can pain actually be people right now are saying, Okay, I've heard what you've said, I want to apply this. I'm at least what am I gonna say? I'm at least accepting to hear what the two of you have to say. But how can the pain actually be a gift that helps a free us from pain? So how can the pain be a gift that helps us free us from pain so the pain is helping us free us from the pain

Guy Finley
in every moment that any of us become remotely aware of some kind of pain. The pain that we see as a problem is actually the appearance of an invitation. The invitation in the pain is for us to first recognize like we just discussed, I've had the same relationship with pain for 10,000 years, the world has had the same relationship with pain. Not one of these relationships has released me or the world from this pain. Now you asked something earlier I pick it up now. How does this change not just me, but the world because we will mostly say most of us that we are interested in a better world we would like To see the hatred, God willing, be mitigated. We would like to see men and women be able to have a conversation without being in an argument. Why is that impossible for us now? Because we don't know what to do with our pain in those moments. Here's what I'm suggesting. What if? Big question, I recognize that my whole life every time and Greg got you up advocate, something happens, I'm in pain in my pleasant to be around when I'm in pain.

Greg Voisen
Are you asking me that question?

Guy Finley
Is anybody suddenly they're in pain or pleasant to be around?

Greg Voisen
No, they're usually agitated. Yeah,

Guy Finley
exactly. And when I'm agitated, you know the story. He comes home, he's angry at you at work. He's in pain. His wife says, How's it go? He kind of lets her have a blast of that negativity he's experiencing. She then goes and goes to tuck the kid in the bed. And she's still reeling from this unmitigated, undeserved attack. And she's tense, she passes along that pain to the kid, the kids laying there, the dog is licking itself next to the bed, the kid gets up and kicks the dog. And you can see that this pain is kicked down the road kicked down the road, and the road never changes, because the thing just comes back and back and back. What if Greg, we understood that so thoroughly, we were willing, for the first time in our life, to agree to be present to the pain instead of trying to pass it along. That's the real,

Greg Voisen
that's what you're going to talk about during the pines. Now, I show you how to do you and I have had a lot of discussions about this over the years. And whether you want to call it being unconscious, or I'm not in touch with what I can do by reprogramming my subconscious. The reality is most people guy, I'm gonna say most people, even me, there's something that happens that times where I just totally have a lapse of who I am. Why I'm here, right? Because this, this big thing called the ego takes over and says I got to be right. And so it does something to hurt other people. If we're gonna go back to the psychological issues here, we could say, Okay, well, you talk about ego, call it whatever you want. But the reality is, there is a side of you that you don't fully understand. And people will say, Well, how could somebody commit that kind of crime? How could they do that injustice, I was reflecting with someone yesterday, this is quite appropriate, was on 60 minutes about the guys who put 330 Jews to death in the last days before they were captured at Auschwitz. And I think many people probably saw that. And yet they were drinking champagne and partying and being with the girls and all the rest of them, there's like, how do you take that out of your mind? And be so cruel, right? And and at the same time, then have a party every evening after you've just executed women and children? I mean, it's like, really? Right. So do you think that they're a little bit unconscious?

Guy Finley
Well, what they are, is sleeping human beings, who are fully identified with something that lends them a very strong sense of self. And the only way to keep that sense of self in place, is to remove or otherwise control or destroy anything that challenges it. So that model, that paradigm is really no different than the moment in which I'm cut off on the freeway. And if I had a laser gun, I would obliterate the fool who dared be on the same lane as I was at the same time, so that we we can begin to understand it. And actually, Greg find in our hearts a new way of being in relationship with all of these actions. Critically, not just what other people do. But oh my god, how did I cross that line? What was going on? And the answer is, please. Our reactions Gregg, are binary. They are purely mechanical and purely binary. There's no intelligence in an unconscious reaction, save for instinctual like I described. Now, what is the binary nature of this reaction? I want this. I don't want that. End of story. You can't find a React And that isn't predicated on, oh, I want that. Oh, my God, I don't want that every reaction binary, meaning perfectly mechanical. Now, what is the nature of this constant? Oh, I don't want this. I want this. What is it that blinds me to my actions other than being identified with that desire that is divided up into? I don't want this, I want that. I want to be the one who's seen as the superior officer, I want to be the one who never has anybody spoken to speak to me that way. So I'm simply pointing out that we are asleep. And that we're asleep to a nature that is constantly triggered into a binary reaction of want and not want. And until we have the awareness of this reaction, and what gives birth to it, we cannot use anything that happens to us, because we will always be the machine living out what not what, what not what, that's it for us. You say something to me, I have a reaction. Why does Greg say that to me? The minute that I'm identified with that reaction, am I in the conversation anymore? Or am I in the past trying to figure out how to sort through? What should be the response to what you've said? That's all we're looking at here, Greg, as far as I'm concerned, can I have a relationship with this unconscious resistance with resistance that cannot be escaped? Let's clarify this. Resistance is a crucial element in creation, Yin, Yang, positive, negative, affirm, deny resistance cannot be escaped without resistance, there would be no revelation of any kind whatsoever. So resistance is built into my life. But can I use the resistance that is the product of a mind that doesn't want anything that challenges its egoic? Structure? Can I use that resistance? So that instead of serving the egoic structure, and its continual suffering, and what it places out on everybody else, can I use that to turn around and start to understand, I wonder if I can be the observer of this reaction, instead of the unwitting servant to it, we make that small change, and everything starts to change, because for the first time, we actually start to realize, Oh, my God, I've been unconsciously serving every thought, feeling reaction from my whole life, without ever understanding what I do to myself, let alone everybody else, when I'm just this machine. Yes, I want that. No, I don't know. I don't, yes, I do. We can change that, Greg. And when we do, we change not only our own consciousness, in whatever degree, we're willing to meet the truth of ourselves, that sets us free, we begin to change our relationship with everybody else around us. So that instead of passing the buck of that blasted negativity, now we begin to pass along, not just the wish to understand, but the capacity to do so. One last thought. And when I don't punish somebody, for being who I don't want them to be, they can no longer blame me for the pain they're in. Because I've decided to die to myself to the extent I can, so that new love can live and that they might have an opportunity to see the same unconscious nature operating in them.

Greg Voisen
Well, if I was to word it, I would say where compassion meets resistance, compassion for oneself, love for oneself, self love, to really understand that because the emotion of that is, in my humble opinion, stronger than the emotion of the resistance. The point is, is we do as you say, we will do anything to stay out of pain. Okay? And I think that, whether you were to give a technique or not, if you can meet those moments, with compassion and understanding for yourself and the other person, you can remove the resistance and the pain for yourself and the other person.

Guy Finley
Because you turn the table, yeah, the resistance no longer becomes your identity. It's choices no longer become your actions. Now, your choice and your action is to use the presence of that unconscious nature to become aware of it and it is in that awareness. Love is greater than hatred. There is no such thing. There is no such thing. What does what did Einstein say? Darkness of light is the absence of light. So if I bring myself into the light of that moment to see this nature, by doing so, I've actually changed something of the observer, you know, quantum physics, that you change the observer, you change the observed. Right.

Greg Voisen
And I, my sense is no matter how we deliver this message in the spoken word today on this podcast, there is an energy at work if you allow it to be. And it's most exemplified, in my humble opinion by somebody like the Dalai Lama, you know, there's a vibration that he puts off, that most spiritual leaders of that magnitude put off, that are really just about compassion, like holding compassion for the world, even in these times, because there isn't anything else they can do. They just did the interview with the Pope. And it was all about, hey, the only way to get through this is just like what you're saying, meeting that moment with compassion versus resistance. And I think we've come to a pivotal point in the history of our world, that we all need to understand that the resistance is what creates the problem and the pain, not the compassion for the resistance.

Guy Finley
Exactly. Right. Hmm. 100% Yeah, exactly. So,

Greg Voisen
I mean, if we can all get a board with the same thing, it would be simple. Our job here today is to expose you to actually going someplace or attending online, which is called your passport to a new world beyond stress, struggle and useless pain, you're going to learn a lot. If you go up for the three days. To Marylyn, Oregon, under the pines. It's a beautiful location I've been there. Guy, we're gonna put a link up to the talks in the pine, we'll put links up to the path past podcast, so people really want to. And if you really want to, you can just go to the online wisdom school. He's also got a store. There's hundreds of hours of recordings of guys speaking, you can you can join him on is it Wednesday nights,

Guy Finley
I spent it. I speak for free on Wednesday nights, right? Saturday mornings, and Sunday mornings, nothing to join streamed out to the world. Everyone's welcome.

Greg Voisen
So you can check all that out. And then you can you can basically go go in there, but it's really Guy Finley dot o RG. Also, you can plug it in Google life of learning, Center for Spiritual discovery, you'll get there that way. We'll put links to all that pleasure having you back on the show, again, this time not really talking about a book. But talking about something way more important than a book. And that is three days of immersiveness in a beautiful spot, to actually give your self time to reflect on what you can do to transform yourself and not beat your up self up so badly. I love you, buddy.

Guy Finley
I would say that we talked about the book of life today. Yeah, the light, our discussion is crucial. And we must continue it. We can't just acknowledge these truths, we must act that knowledge. I can't stress that strongly enough. Thank you, Greg, I appreciate the time the opportunity more than I can say, for letting me share these ideas with the people that I know follow you and are interested in your work? Well, look,

Greg Voisen
I say to people, and you've said this before, I think I remember hearing it, there's a lot of pathways up the mountain. And I don't care if you're Muslim, or your Jew or your Christian, or whatever religion you are. I've said to my listeners, many times, I've found that religion has done more to divide us than unite us. And I'll keep saying this for as long as I live. Because the reality is, is you need content, like what guy is bringing to the world to actually really understand that the fundamental truths of all of these lie in these philosophical points that he's making. And religion has is, again, just one big philosophy. The other thing is, is that guy is really committed, so committed to this. I want my listeners to hear this. And he's been doing this for years and years and years and Though he isn't making a living off of this, this isn't like hey, go tied to guy or the, or the life of Learning Foundation. Because he needs your money. He does it because he's 100% committed to. And I'm not going to say the truth, but I'll say the big tea the truth that you find with inside yourself. When you awaken the wisdom with inside yourself, you find these tools are there. They aren't something that you have to go someplace to get. There is something that you have to find within your own heart. You find them within your heart, and they stay there forever.

Guy Finley
So that because you because they stay there forever, because you find out. They were forever. They're just waiting. Yeah, you are

Greg Voisen
born with them. You are born with them. Well, my love and blessings to you and all the folks at the life and Learning Foundation, who I've interacted with for this podcast. Thank you so much for taking the time. Namaste to you. Appreciate you and all that you're doing. We'll see you in the pine.

Guy Finley
Thanks so much, Greg.