Welcome back to another episode inside personal growth. My name is Greg Voisen, and on the other side of the screen there is Brian Evans, and Brian and I have known each other. Boy, Brian, let's see we do we want to say 20 plus years. 20 plus

years for sure. Yeah, it's

been that long since he and I went to a school in Santa Monica called University of Santa Monica, and it got a degree in spiritual psychology. So Brian, since then, he went on and he opened up a coaching business. It's called Brian Evans coaching. And for all of you listening, go to Brian Evans coach com. There you can learn more about him. So Brian, you know, 20 years long time, here's this book, legends rising. You finally got it out of you. We finally got the book out of you. And I will say that, you know, this is I'm going to show this to my listeners. It's not very hard to read. So when you go up and get it, it's really well done, because the reality is, we know less and less people are reading less and less and watching more and more Right, correct. So this is legends, writing, rising, creating the modern man. So I'm gonna let the listeners know a little about your history that I'm letting you talk a little bit about it as well. For over 20 years, he's coached elite professionals, executives, entrepreneurs, professional athletes and even royalty. Boy, I gotta hear who that was, if he can say, helping them master leadership, scale business and unlock their full potential. He is a master at this, and his credentials are extensive. He's a board certified coach in the top point zero 1% certified executive leadership coach, certified business coach, certified mental performance coach, certified transformational life coach. He has an MBA in finance, a master's, as I said, in spiritual psychology, a PhD candidate in positive psychology, and he's featured on a lot of podcasts. So Brian, how do you put all of that together for our listeners? And tell us a little bit about your backstory and what is your passion around coaching.

So I when, when I hear the list of qualifications, what I want to say about that is the reason why I seek so many qualifications is because I'm passionate about meeting people where they are, and if, whether it's an executive, whether it's a YouTuber, whether it's a stay at home mom or pop, whether it's a terrorism expert, I want to be able to meet them where they are, for us to start our work together, which is why I seek so many different facets in terms of The training and how what language I can speak to them. So that really resonates for each person who I'm speaking with, to be able to see the possibilities that are there for their life and and begin to activate that. So I just want to start out with that that the qualifications are not to impress anyone. It's to let you know that there's a place where we can begin our conversation, a bridge that we can build together, and from there we can instead of being on opposite sides of the bridge, we'll be on the same side of the bridge, walking together from where you are to where you want to go. So that's how I approach

your meeting. You're meeting the people that are listening. Who need a coach? You're meeting them where they are. These qualifications have helped you now, I think probably one of the biggest qualifications has helped both of us meet people where they are is our degree in spiritual psychology. For sure, how has that influenced the philosophy behind legends, rising behind Brian, behind the book. Because everywhere I go, people will say, Well, you know, spiritual psychology, what is that? Degrees, right? You'll tell them how you have spiritual psychology. And it's, and I always say it is the best thing I ever did in my life, for sure, for sure, and so I know it's influenced you and Heidi, by the way listeners his wife, Heidi, she was in the course at the same time. What is it that you think Ron and Mary did

well? I think they invited us to not only find our own self awareness, but to find the connection with others, so that we can see ways in which, altogether, we can work with each other, to invite our best self to emerge. I would say that's how I would put it, from a technical point of view now, in the same way that I could say, well, gravity keeps us rooted to the earth and not flying out into the stars, but that that describes gravity, but it doesn't give you the experience of gravity. I think it's difficult to say what spiritual psychology is, and and better to have someone experience it, which is this presence that you and I have in terms of being able to see with and for each other what's possible, and to help people to move into alignment with what's possible. That's what comes through in coaching. It doesn't matter who I coach. I'm coaching an individual. You know, we we coach the circumstances of the individual's life, but we're coaching the individual, and that, I think, is one of the takeaways from spiritual psychology, for me, is that, in the end, we are all these amazing, unique, individualized selves that have both our greatest selves and our most challenged self together. How can we move closer and closer to on a moment to moment basis, to being our greater selves.

You know, Ron and Mary used to say this, you know, are you on the goal line or the learning line? Yeah. And I think coaching is really people say, Oh, I'm kind of go to a coach because I've got these goals. I think you're going to a coach because you want to become aware of what you need to learn to actually achieve those goals, right? And and I think that's I want to ask you around what inspired you it to write this book, and what transformation do you hope it sparks in not only the rears, but the people right now that are listening to this podcast. Well,

I'll approach this through two points of view. Greg. One is, I'm 58 and I last year, I had the opportunity to go to my 40th high school reunion, and and I went to a private Catholic Boys High School, so all of the men that are in the range that the book speaks to, and what I've heard over the last 10 to 15 years with this group of guys is all of the common struggles that they're facing, and The common struggles that they're facing tend to revolve around their health, their relationships, their career vision, their life vision, and this sense of I'm successful, but there's something missing. And as I started listening to all of these stories over and over again, I thought to myself, wait a minute, if this is common in this group, it's common in society, where's a voice to lead someone through this. And so that's why I started writing it, writing the book, so that it's very simple as you as she showed it's it's a thin book, intentionally so because it really just does three things, it describes what the problem is. It helps you to recognize how it shows up in your individual life, and then it tells you what to do about it. And that's what all of these guys were looking for. When I talked to them about the circumstances in their life, I

would say, I mean, you look, you've coached hundreds of people, right? So you describe this modern man's journey as, again, this balance between, you know, ambition. You were just talking about these guys, it's okay, my health, my family, the wheel of life. Let's just call it that way, their ambition, their humility, their strength and their compassion. So in your experience, you know, you said you grew up in this Catholic school. Didn't matter if it's Catholic or wherever it is. But the point is, what's the biggest challenge that you believe in today's modern era men are faced with in finding and my question used the word balance, but to me, it would be almost like flow, right? How do you help these individuals get out of all of this, I'm not enough. I need to be more. The whole thing with the ego that's going on all the time. What does Brian help them to create that awareness do?

Well, I think the word you used, the Word Flow, I might use the word rhythm, that if there's this shift between probably five or six factors in their life, and to recognize that there's no ability to tend to all of them at all the same time with all the same intensity, but there is importance to make sure that you are tending to all of them. So that's one point. Is awareness, okay, what are the areas of importance? What are the areas of neglect? And how can we shift that is sort of the how we work towards it. But I think you asked a really interesting question baked into your question, Greg, which is, Why are men facing this in the first place? And I think that that has a lot to do with, to do with the social programming, the social programming that the self made man, the man who always has it going on, who constantly is is, you know, succeeding and achieving an ambition. And I and we have to deconstruct some of that, because, in perhaps that was the case in our lifetime, 50 plus years ago, but in the 21st century, it's simply too difficult, I would say, impossible, to manage all of those, the factors that we're managing in 2025 rather than 1975 so I think that that, I think those two things, the social programming piece, and then from that, being able to isolate down to okay, what is truly important, and are you tending to it and creating a plan to tend to it on a daily ish basis, so that Nothing goes neglected, even if they're receiving inconsistent focus at any one time. Yeah,

you know, there's a lot wrapped into what you said. And I think that you know, had this discussion about imposter theory, you're talking the shadow in chapter four. What role does the shadow integration play in personal growth, and how can men embrace it rather than suppress it? Because the reality is, it's like most men are going to brush it under the carpet. They're not going to embrace it. And I'm sure you've you have plenty of coaching clients that that's the case when they start, but it is a challenge to bring it, create awareness of it, and then embrace it.

It is a challenge, and so oftentimes I have to play to the male ego and let them know that there's a source of power that you have that is that you're untapped. So if you're feeling burned out, if you're feeling sort of lost or uncertain, there's this source of power that's untapped. And so leading through an exercise to actually identify the shadow pieces and help them to recognize that shadow isn't something bad or wrong, kind of like the ego, isn't something bad or wrong. It serves a particular function. Shadow is the same way. It's simply parts that we've disowned. It's parts that we have judgments about. It's parts that we recognize in others but don't want to recognize ourselves. But if we shift the lens on it, shift the relationship with us. It's a source of tremendous power for us, and so if we can tap into that in a different way than we have, then we can begin to recognize, hey, wait a minute, I've got these power sources that I haven't been using, and I don't have to experience so much burnout from efforting. So I think that's the shadow conversation when the individual is ready, is a really important it. It's possibly the most important piece in the book for those who are ready to have that conversation, because it is literally an untapped source of power that most of us have because we have a certain misperception about it that we need to avoid it.

So true, so true. And I think the woman that wrote mostly about it was Arielle Ford, Debbie. Debbie Ford. Arielle was her sister, Debbie, yes, because yes, Debbie died young from overdose, because Ariel has been on the show. And it was interesting because her whole, many of her books were all around the shadow, and she had some dark shadows herself, right? So look, men and women. I don't think this is just now. The book obviously says the modern man, but I'm gonna not be biased here, and I'm gonna throw women into this stress, anxiety, overworking. They're all common struggles that men face today in women. What are some practical steps from your coaching and from the book that you could help men break this side, this cycle. It because it is a challenge. And you say stagnation, yeah, those are the things that create stagnation, because you feel like you're a rat in a wheel just going around and you're not making any progress, and yet you want to make progress. And there are times when all of us wake up in the morning and we go, what's this all about?

I still wake up in the morning some days, Greg and I'm saying this intentionally, because, just because I'm coaching and have been doing this for more than 20 years, there are still moments, and we will always have moments where we wake up and say, What is this all about? Right?

Yeah. So what can you do to help men in particular? Because we'll address the men today, deal with these issues and get out of that. So obviously, you know, the common things that come to mind is awareness, meditation, yoga, certain practices that you could do, self nurturing, care, self love, all the things that we were taught in USM, I just curious if those are the same things you're still teaching

Absolutely, you know, USM is, is the DNA of the work that I do in the conversations I have. So absolutely, it's, it's, it's baked into everything that I do with my clients. But I think what, and this is I approach this in chapter one, because I want us to start off with the foot of recognizing that there, there are things that are happening in our life that we are not the cause of, but we could certainly be the catalyst for. And the three things that I mentioned specifically about stagnation is awareness decision making, and had creating a support community or or a support presence around us again, because we're speaking about men, and I'll speak in a moment about men and women, but because we're speaking in the moment about men, we tend to fall into the social programming again of I'm the self made man. I'm going to do it myself. I'm going to pull myself up by my bootstraps, and that's admirable, up until the point where it becomes self injurious. So part of it is recognizing, okay, awareness. Where am I needing help? Where am I feel like I'm not where that I where I need to be, or I don't know where to turn. That's the moment where I go, Okay, let me just write it down. I don't need to do anything about it yet. Guys are really good at wanting to okay, what's the doing about this? And this is the moment. Just write it down. The second thing is, okay, I want to make a decision for this to be different. I don't have to know how it's going to be different yet. I just, I'm aware that I picked this one, two or three things, and I want them to be different, and then seek out someone to help with that reflect someone you trust that you can say, hey, I'm thinking about making some changes. Here are one, two or three things that I feel like I'm kind of stagnant or stuck at, and it's actually causing me some stress. And have that conversation with this trusted friend, coach, advisor, mentor, family member, so that it begins to shake loose the stagnation. So I think that's how to activate those three pieces. And this is the same for men and women. Women tend to do it organically, because they tend to be more social when there is problem solving or creating new opportunities or possibilities, men tend to go inward and say, Okay, wait, I need to work this. I need to solve this. This is a problem solving exercise, and we're trying to move out of problem solving into possibility, and that's those are two very different energies. So I think that's probably a distinction between how men and women would handle this stagnation,

yeah, how they approach it. I would agree with you, and it's and it's true, men have been conditioned to have to be the ones that solve it themselves. Men are less likely to go into a community and talk to a bunch of other guys about personal stuff, so that, thus they have you as the coach to do that. You

know, can I? Can I just make a point about that? Greg, yeah, the the reason, one of the reasons, primary reasons, why I wrote this book was because in our field, in the field of consciousness and awareness and growth, personal growth and development, there's a lot of voices of women for women, women coaching men. Men coaching women. Very few presences of men. For men not it's true and and to be able to speak the language and share in the directness that a one man to another, I tell some of my male clients, I'm like, Hey, you're messing up. Let's get back on track. I usually use a different word than messing but you know, this is Republicans. It's direct, and it's to the point. And I say, let's get back on track, and I will call them out differently than I will most of my female clients. And it's not because I'm treating them differently. It's what I'm what I'm seeing in the beginning, about speaking the language and meeting them where they are. And there's just not, as you mentioned, there's not that many species where men gather, where they can speak to each other that clearly, especially about what's going on in their life from a personal standpoint,

so true. I mean, there are some of these groups where men go out and they they kind of camp together. I can't remember some of them, but, you know, they got on these events, and they cook meals together and talk around the fire and go out in nature. And I think those are very important. You know, in this quest that most men and women who are professionals have is around financial abundance is often equated with success. So let's just use that. How do you differentiate between material wealth for these individuals and true personal fulfillment? Because I remember having Marshall Goldsmith on here, not that long ago, talking about one of his books. And he would ask these very successful people if they had regrets, and many of them would tell him no. But then in on the flip side of the coin, he would say, well, when is enough enough? You know, you have five cars, you have six houses, you own three companies, you're worth close to a billion dollars, and yet you still keep striving for more degrees, more houses, more cars, more whatever. And that's where this personal fulfillment comes in. At what point are we in this place of peace?

That's a big question, and it's an important question, an important question to ask, because socially, we've been conditioned to believe that if we narrow it down to something with $1 sign in front of it that's going to convey happiness, meaning, purpose, fulfillment, peace of mind. And what the studies find is that's simply not true in Martin Seligman is the father of positive psychology, and in his studies, when they study different groups of people in terms of their happiness and well being the group of some of the richest men and women in America is on par with the Pennsylvania Amish they they scored the exact same. So it's not about more or what one has that conveys the sense of well being. So one of the things that I do with my clients is I start off by saying, there's no limit to what you can have. There's no limit to what you can create. There's no limit to possibility. And what does that what is complimentary to that is, how are you feeling about what's going on in your life? These two are not opposed. It's not like, oh, I have to choose to have either material wealth or well being or peace of mind or fulfillment. No, but we can't substitute one for the other. They're in come they're in compliment to each other. So when we work together, we're working together on all of the different levels, so that there's alignment. And it's not substituting one thing with something else, or trying to see to to substitute it, and finding that it's lacking.

You know, there's a Christian group, and I had him on the show here not that long ago. And you know, I want to say his name now that runs, it is Lloyd Reb from success to significance. And you address that this transition from success to significance, and this goes right along with this material well being and personal fulfillment, how can you help men shift their focus and there, there is a big movement right now for people to want to find and have some meaningful legacy, Especially we look at the the different generations today, you know, you got the Baby Boomers, you got the Z years, you got all these various generations. But in the younger generations, they're saying, No, give me more meaning. Give me more purpose. But they also want the financial part as well, right? I don't know if that's that different in our generation. You know, we're seeking this significance in legacy as well. You know, thus I have my nonprofit I support the homeless. I think we have to step outside of ourselves in our own ego, ego, to actually give to somebody else, selflessly, to actually reach this point of having some kind of meaningful legacy. How do you get people to wake up to that? Because it's a kind of in many cases, it's a Me, me, me, society, not a wee, wee, wee.

Well, I think there's two parts to it. One, I do agree that the evolution of society is is evolving, sometimes slowly, sometimes quickly, from the me society to a we society. We certainly have many role models that are still me centric, but I think that there are also some tremendous role models that are we centric? And it feels like part of that is as more and more generations start to come into being, and they shift the collective focus, the entirety of the tipping point will come in terms of more we than me, but I think it starts with an inner impulsion for each individual to be a giving individual. Now there may be exceptions to the rule, but I'm going to say generally here, and the way that I can measure that is in the moments of crisis, we collectively become very giving, very generous, wanting to be a part of creating something better. And of course, you know, we just saw this in Los Angeles with the wildfires, where incredible generosity, and I think it comes down to personal empathy, Greg, the tying together, the legacy with empathy, is one of the ways that I can invite clients to say, what is the thing that if you have the possibility, let's not think of limitation. We have the possibility to create some positive shift that you may or may not be remembered for? What would you do? And it puts them in touch with this moment of personal empathy and also to recognition of what's truly important to them. It's always going to be legacy. Tends to be a later life thing. Oh, I'll focus on that after I retire, when I've made my millions, when I have more time and I invite them earlier to have the conversations earlier in their timeline, if possible, because it can become a source of such meaning, a purpose and fulfillment for them to be active in it now, at whatever case or way that they can be as they're building towards the a an extended legacy later in life, when they have more time or resources for it.

I agree. You know, it's more of a balanced approach to just say, Well, I'm going to work, work, work hard, and then I'm going to wait until I'm, you know, my case, I'm, I'm 70. I'm going to be 71 in July to actually start doing philanthropic work or to have something that you really care about, or have something I know, Chip Conley was just on the show not that long ago, speaking about, you know, midlife, right? Yeah, go, well, when is midlife now? I mean, is it? Is it people like me, who are 70? Is it people 60? Look at you. You're almost 60. So that's that's the issue. And you know, you discuss social impact and purpose driven leadership, and they're kind of central themes in the book. Can you share a story of a modern man or leader who you think embodies those principles, right? This purse purpose driven and having some social impact at the same time,

you know, I can, my mind first went to, okay, who's a famous person that everyone would know? And then I thought, No, I'm going to tell the story briefly of someone who I know very well and very personally, who embodies these principles, and that's a gentleman named Stu semmegran. You may or may not know Stu Greg, but he, he, he and his wife, Candace, created the Educare foundation 35 years ago, and through out these 35 years, they've touched the lives of almost a million children, parents, teachers, administrators in terms of bringing heart centered, heart set education into The educational systems, not only in California, but throughout the country and around the world, as a way to make love the foundation for education, because when children, parents, teachers and administrators are involved in a loving presence, seen, heard, acknowledged, supported, then learning can really expand. It's really the only environment in which learning can thrive. So Candice and Stu are two individuals who I admire greatly, who truly embody this, this purpose driven leadership and social, social impact, and, and, and, so I share that story rather than saying, oh, you know Richard Branson or someone else who's a high integrity leader, because I want the listeners and the viewers to know that you can be this purpose driven leader yourself. It doesn't have to be the personalities there can be but there are people in your community, people in your family, maybe you yourself, who are a purpose driven leader and accepting that, recognizing that and and expanding that is what's going to create evolutionary shifts in our society. Well,

there's so many examples of that. I was just did a an event that Greg Reed put on. Dr Greg Reed called The Secret Knock, and he did the documentary about the gentleman who started Make a wish. So Greg created that. It's called wishing man. And the interesting thing is, is when you look at make a wish, now, just how big it's grown out of simple wishes that were granted and to try and give a child who is dealing with an illness some level of hope or get a connection with firemen, policemen, doctors, nurses, Whatever. Now, one of the things that you talk about in the book is that you encourage men, and I think anybody, to live with an intention and clarity, right? So you and I set our intentions before we started the show. I think it's so important because it guides subconsciously where we're going to head. How can someone who's starting, who wants to start crafting a personal mission statement or purpose statement today, do you help your clients do that? And if you do, how do you help them do it? And what is your intention for doing that,

I do help them create the personal mission statement and and it's in it's a process that takes time, because we want it to be something that is clear. It gives the the client confidence to be able to step into it. And so we go through a process where we identify, really three aspects of it, what's the what's the vision, what's the process, what's the outcome, and and those roughly correlate to the why, the how and the what. And oddly enough, Greg, well, not odd. It's the way that we've all sort of grown into ourselves is we tend to start with the end in mind. What's the outcome that we want? Well, I want to have a loving relationship with my spouse. Okay? And why do I want to now? I jump back to the why? Okay, well, why is that important? Well, all of the reasons why that's important. Okay, then how will we go about building or expanding this loving relationship? And so as we do that, we're doing two things simultaneously. Number one is we're creating a road map. But as we're creating a road map, we're getting really, really precise in terms of what are the factors that are most important to us? I think that what I found over the years is that many people have a resistance to mission statements, because we're most familiar with corporate mission statements. And then there's sort of the dichotomy between, is this corporation living up to its mission statement or not, but to have the personal mission statement starts with the word personal, what's important to you. And so it's not about the doing, it's about the discovery, which then leads to the doing of creating this mission statement. But once it is done, it is such a powerful touchstone to be able to come to that moment to moment as needed. Wait, why am I doing what I'm doing? That uncertainty we talked about earlier? Oh, wait, I've got my personal mission statement. These are the reasons that I'm doing what I'm doing. So that's the process for it, and it's a very powerful thing.

Well, you're giving people the term that I think the founder of Medtronic did, Bill, what was his name? What's Bill's name? Any rate, was the North Star, right? It's kind of like your purpose, your vision, your mission, your values, all of those things are kind of bundled into you know, when I wake up in the morning, what is it that I stand for? Why am I here? What am I doing? It's like a guiding principle for you every day. And when a coach can get their client to see that and see the power of it, it also helps to bring into focus. It's almost like you're out of focus when you have all these other things going on in your life, like you've got the stress and the anxiety and whatever, and you're trying to, like, you know, get the right pair of glasses right? It's like, okay, is this the right prescription? For me, everybody's prescription is a little bit different, but the reality is, is to get the focus so that you can make a difference in some way. So you've got some powerful exercises throughout the book, if someone had to pick up and just pick one exercise to begin a transformation in their own personal life, to get themselves out of the fog, to get themselves unstuck, to get to remove the stress, to remove the anxiety. Which one would you recommend and why?

Sounds like you know, you have all of these kids. Which one's your favorite?

So you can choose to Brian, how's that? Okay?

I'll choose, I'll choose two. In this context, Greg, if a person is just beginning a journey of self awareness, or maybe they're fairly new into making self growth a prioritized part of their life, I would say, start with the chapter one exercises, because I designed it to build upon the previous work so that as you get into more and more nuanced growth, you have more and more nuanced exercises. So I think identifying the energy drains for men is a very important one, because we do tend to commit to so much and commit with the intention to be exceptional in all of them, without recognizing that we may not have the personal energy to to do that all at the same time. As I said earlier, it's not that we can't do everything, we just can't do it all at the same time. So I would say, start in chapter one with the energy drains, because a lot of times we're unaware of just how much energy we have going out in in how many directions. And then I would say pairing that with some sort of a stress release. So

do you mind if I tell them, right? Five, yeah. So it's identify the energy drains stress release. Practice. Dedicate 15 minutes a day to practicing deep breathing, meditation, mindfulness, visioning your future. Spend time envisioning your life you want. So close your eyes and imagine the future. I think that's a great one. And identify one person in your life you want to reconnect with, schedule that conversation, somebody that you can build a bridge with, that maybe you broke. So great advice, just in those those four,

yeah, yeah. I want us to be able to make it simple, to make progress that on a daily basis, choose one thing. I mean, I know I said 15 minutes of meditation. It may be one minute of meditation, but you know what one minute of meditation is better than zero minutes of meditation. So just start where you are, but do one thing every day. What's one thing I can do today to help myself feel more in flow, feel lighter, feel more connected, and then just do that. It's

interesting. You say that because I was preparing for a talk that I'm doing tomorrow for a business group. And obviously have a plethora of podcasts to choose from. And I went back to the one with BJ Fogg from Stanford on tiny habits. And one of the things is, is that you want to do something, and I think this is important that makes you feel good, not that makes you feel bad, because you're not going to change something by being having a disincentive you want to give yourself an incentive. You want to feel good about something. So one tiny thing. So if meditation for two minutes makes you feel good, imbibe that feeling that you get after you leave that two minute meditation because the reality is, that's what you're looking for. What is it that makes you feel good? And he said in his lab, those were the things that people changed, not Oh, you're overweight and you did this and beat yourself up over it, because it just doesn't work. Okay?

It truly doesn't. Yeah, it absolutely doesn't. It can work in the short term. It can work in the short term, but a sustainable transformation is not a short term thing. It's it requires a different technology, a different mindset, a different set of habits and practices than trying to even motivate ourselves. It has to be something inspired that we tap into.

Well, so Brian, in wrapping up this interview, what is it that you might be working on you'd like to let the listeners know? Or what would you like to let them know? Period about legends rising and for everybody, here's the book, and there'll be a link in the show notes to the website. There'll be a link to the book as well. Anything you want to leave with Brian,

sure, yeah, one of the things that I'm getting really interesting feedback on Greg is from women who have purchased the book because they want to understand what's going on with the men in their lives. And I'm not only talking about partners, but their children, their fathers, their their male people in their in their circle. And I've gotten a really a lot of great feedback from women who have read the book and said this is really clear, and this helped me to have conversations that I didn't know how to have with the men in my life, and so I'm really gratified by that, because it is opening up conversations different than differently than they existed before. So I would say, you know, the book is aimed towards men, as I mentioned before, so that there is a male to male voice, but it is also for everybody to be able to facilitate or start a conversation. And I'm rolling out a number of plans that's going to expand on this, and I'm going to do a master class in May where we go through the book and really have a deeper dive and awareness, and a couple of work groups where we'll actually work through the book, through the exercises. And then finally, I've got a couple of live, live speaking events in the works, where, where we can, where I can expand the audience. Because the purpose of this is to create and to share a tool that facilitates a different conversation than the social conversations that we've been having. Well,

for all my listeners, again, we'll put in the show notes, but I'll tell you here. Now if you're still listening, Brian Evans coach.com is where you want to go. There you can learn about the services, some of the success stories from his clients, and that'd be a great place for you to learn about Brian. Please look for our wise note as well. There'll be a five minute overview about Brian's book. Brian. Namaste to you. Thank you spending time with me. It's been way too long. I'll have to come up to Hawthorne and see you and Heidi, please.

We would love to. We'll even meet you halfway, if that makes it easier for but we so appreciate you. Thank you so much for everything, Greg, you're quite welcome.