Greg Voisen
Well, welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. This is Greg Voisen, the host of Inside Personal Growth. And joining me, where are you joining me from, Faisal?

Faisal Hoque
I'm in Connecticut. Home-based today.

Greg Voisen
Connecticut. And it's Faisal Hoque and his most recent book, for those of you can see it is Reinvent: Navigating Business Transformation in a Hyperdigital Era. Boy, is it hyperdigital these days. Like I was just saying to him before we came on with the advent of AI and how Google is now integrated Microsoft and all these companies have jumped on the AI bandwagon. There isn't anybody today that isn't talking about it. But that's only one small aspect of what we're going to talk about. What I am going to do is I'm going to give the listeners just a tad bit information about you Faisal. He's an accomplished entrepreneur, noted thought leader, technology innovator advisor to CEO, B ODS, and the US federal government and author of more than 20 have more than 25 years of cross industry success. He's the founder of Cydonia. Next chapter and other companies, they focus on embedding a sustainability and transformational changes. Furthermore, he serves as a strategic partner and innovation leader for C ACI, a $6.7 billion dollar company, whose mission in enterprises technologies and expertise play a vital role in the US national security. You can learn more about Feisal at fa i Sal, H. O qu e.com. There, you can learn more about his books, his insights, his ventures. And I want to mention, and I hope I'm right here. My son has chronic myelogenous leukemia, and you donate the proceeds of this book, to actually the research going on in that arena. Is that blood cancers?

Faisal Hoque
Yeah, it is because, like you, Greg, I have a son, my only son who's now 21, he was diagnosed with multiple myeloma, which is a type of blood cancer when he was 18. He's fine. He's doing okay. But it's a journey, as you know, so I decided to, you know, donate every thing that I can, in terms of the book proceeds to the blood cancer society. Well,

Greg Voisen
and I, I'm a big advocate of leukemia society, I was on team and training, I raised hundreds of 1000s of dollars, my son still has chronic myelogenous leukemia as an executive at Adobe. And he has lived with the disease now and a drug called sprycel. Prior to that, it was a different drug called Gleevec for the last, he's now going to be 42 years old. So he got it when he was 21. He got it at his senior year at UCLA, I never thought it would happen. But there, the survival rate now is just amazing. So kudos to you for doing that. Now, let's dig in, because my listeners may be want to hear that story. But they also want to hear the other story. You know, we just said you are on the inside personal growth in 2015, where we talked about your book survive to thrive. And then you were on the other one that you had called connected. So much happening in our world at an amazing rate since our discussion nine years ago, including the fact that you're now the author of 10 award winning books. So, you're a busy guy. Can you address some of the issues that you see are affecting businesses today, and how business owners can learn to make good, quote, better decisions about how to navigate their business with the advent of all the technology that's now available to them?

Faisal Hoque
Well, a couple of things. Technology is obviously a big thing. And you know, I really, if you just look at last it started. I mean, I was actually flipping through my very first book, which I wrote 25 years ago, arguing that our technology is going to have a huge impact our business models are crafted. I wrote that in 1999, when the internet was just on the cusp of taking off and, um, you know, 25 plus years later, you know, when I written when I wrote, you know, reinvent, I mean, we are in a completely different place from a technological point of view, obviously, because now we have AI and all sorts of other things IoT and blah, blah, blah. But more than that, I mean, you know, if you look at in a global climate, meaning geopolitical climate, if you look at a post pandemic, era next generation of workforce, people's, you know, lifestyle and longevity of life, all that has a huge impact of how we craft businesses and produce, you know, offering for our customer base and how we actually sustain and, and while not destroying our planet altogether, with these technologies that we're creating, right. So there's a whole bunch of complexity that exists now that didn't exist even like two years ago, right. So, so, so if you want to address that, you know, you have to elevate yourself at a higher product first than just how do I build a my next company or next product and services, because along with all that power comes a huge responsibility, you know, and so in reinvent, I explore that quite a bit. And I'm actually working on my next book that particularly focus on the opportunity and the governance challenges with AI, so we can dive into it.

Greg Voisen
Well, I think I mentioned that I watched the 60 minutes special about Nvidia in the in the conversation, and then the funding that occurred to this robotics company, it made a particular impact on me, because, you know, we all know robots are being here. But now we see BMW adapting these robots, robots at a very big level. And the guy said, millions of robots, I knew he might even said billions of robots will now be coming into our world, which is actually going to change the whole makeup. And so you mentioned that businesses will be compelled to change entire mindsets, attitudes, and assumptions about how they operate and grow. I just pointed a couple of things out AI and robots. You state, the book is geared to address this unprecedented journey that businesses will be faced with an adapt and transform. In your opinion, what are some of the issues that businesses need to address to make their transformation successful, and again, because we're human beings, and this neuro pathways system up here has to be reprogrammed. It's really about how we change the mindsets and attitudes and assumptions that is really going to make us successful or not successful. It Correct.

Faisal Hoque
Yeah, absolutely. Look, I mean, but obviously, the growth, you know, the rate of change is lot higher than it ever used to be right. so and so. But if you look at last 20 3040 5060 years, we've gone through many changes, and the jobs are no longer the same, you know, they are very different the way you do marketing, the way you the sales, that way you produce things, etc, etc. It's all change, right? But what have What if you think of in the context of AI and robot, what will happen and it actually it will not only impact, the obvious one that we think about it, okay? Robots are in the factory. So the manufacturing jobs are going to go away, because robots are gonna, you know, put together these, you know, the cars and like, you're talking about the BMW as an example, etcetera, etcetera. But you can look at it even knowledge workers, right? I mean, if you know, somebody who does the research, you can go to a variety of AI engines already, where you can say, Okay, well tell me what's going on in this field and give me with the citation error pulls it together, what that means is that if you have a research team, that used to be consist of 20 people, maybe now you'll have only two who ask the right question, right? So what happens to the other 18 people, right, so So, so that has a individual impact and that has organizational impact? Right? So the individual impact is that you will have to be a very deep domain expert who can ask the right question, not just do repeatable work that they are they are always doing the same thing over and over again. Right? So that's, that's responsible, individual being that highly curious, deep thinker and creative thinker, critical thinker that ask the right question, because you will have engineers to get you the answer, right. But they cannot produce the right answer. That lets you have to deeper question. And you actually have a firm grasp of the subject matter right? On origin at this one point, and then you can ask me on an organizational level, what that means is that you will be you know, it'll be highly competitive, to attract those, you know, the limited amount of critical thinkers and create Your fingers and motivate them to work or to rally behind your cause, or your mission or purpose, because there'll be highly sought after.

Greg Voisen
Well, critical thinking skills are something that we need to actually work on ourselves as individuals. I know when I started with working with Chet GBT, it really was more about how well I was able to craft the prompt based on what I wanted. And you know, there's full courses out there now where people are talking about how to craft these prompts and do this to get the machine to make trillions of calculations and find the data and then bring it back to you, I get that. But it's not just asking the question, it's then what are you going to do with the data once you get it? Because in the end, it's still just data? Right? It isn't? Really? That's your answer. So I think, you know, human beings are not going to go away, our ability to think critically about it. If anything, this is going to make us better thinkers, faster thinkers, more efficient thinkers, in my estimation. And you you mentioned that since the pandemic, that our that our customers are not only who they used to be. And you use an example of this online shopping, which, you know, look, we all know, Amazon, there's all places to go shopping today, online, how big is that market grown? And what are the expectations for the future, because I'm looking at brick and mortar. And I've, I've been seeing it a road now for the last four years, maybe six years, people with shopping centers, people with this and that and the other thing that are going to be converted to condominiums, or whatever is going to happen. But the reality is, where do you see this headed? And what is the level of sustainability of this kind of venture.

Faisal Hoque
So look, I mean, the retail shopping as we know, today, it just you go through a search engine, you browse through it, I mean, your online retail, and then you buy something. And now because you have the ability to instantly return something that you don't like, you can return it right, so that's fine. But the next phase of this growth is going to be augmented reality, whereby you can actually see things in a in a three dimensional way, like a holographic way you can stand in front of a camera, and you can pick his shirt, and it puts on your body to see how it looks like all these augmented reality AR. And decision support, in terms of retail decision is going to happen, it's already happening in manufacture. I mean, there are things that are already in the works, where you look at the pawn, and holographic image of a shoe, whatever is gonna come up, right, it's already happening. But that doesn't mean that gathering places are going to go away. I mean, we're still look if if anything dependent, we can talk taught us that we are still social beings, and we are the products are targeted us as the consumer, and we are social beings. So the social gathering place, it's still going to be there. But I think it's going to say take a whole new form, then as we know, today, today, it's a very, you know, it's one dimensional, it's, you know, it's not, it doesn't, it's not totally integrated, those all are going to change. So but that creates a whole set of new challenges, how the next generation, you know, retailer, or any of these commerce, that are targeted to the consumer, are going to craft and but I mean, you can also see that, I mean, even in my hometown, I mean, the mall is largely empty. There are, you know, office building that got converted into, you know, into into these apartment buildings, because people are working more from home. But we're also learning that working from home, my 100% of the time doesn't work because you still need that social gathering and interaction in order, collaborative etc.

Greg Voisen
Then said that loneliness is one of the biggest things, challenges with now I do see that and it is important to be with like minded people in groups and to share your ideas and do whatever. But I also think that the speed at which things have changed people look for finding ways for solids. And that brings me to this next question. You know, we all talked about this great recognized resignation during the times of COVID. And what do you see regarding the workforce transformation and why is the organization why will the organization needs to address this? If they're to attract and retain high quality, as you just said, critical thinking type individuals because what I see in my own little world and I live in a city in North San Diego County called Encinitas. We're about 4 million people in San Diego County. I've noticed since the pandemic that the like you just said, less people in the shopping centers, less people on the freeways, more people working from home, more people buying online, more Amazon trucks running around the streets. You know, you could line it all up and just look, look, look, look, look, look in DoorDash and getting things delivered. And all these other kinds of things that have evolved, these businesses of all evolve many of them, since this, this pandemic, right? And many of them are thriving like crazy. So how do I in an organization, try and find and attract these kinds of employees? And I know some of the corporations who said, No, you've got to come as my son works for Adobe, you got to be in there two days a week. Or if you're at Salesforce, now, I think it's two days a week, because all of them have kind of changed a little bit. But do you ever see them going back to the normal? Nine to five? I don't think so. Not gonna happen? No,

Faisal Hoque
no, look, it's a question of balance, right? I mean, it's all look, I mean, we used to be 100 personnel at the office, then in during the pandemic, we weren't 100 personnel at home, right. So and, and now, it's kind of, we're trying out this new hybrid model, whereby, sometimes with the Office sometimes that, you know, at home, you know, I have a lot of customers all over the globe, I mean, when I travel, I'm now seeing planes are full, again, people are traveling, you know, so I don't ever see, going back to, you know, like pandemic, where everybody's working from home 100% and 100% of the time, I also don't see that people are are, you know, they're just, you know, one person at the office, and not, doesn't have the flexibility. What is true is that, you know, people does need the freedom, they do need the flexibility. And it, it, it actually enables you to be more creative, and be, you know, under creativity comes from not a lot of intangible things, being able to take care of your family and take care of your health, that actually enhances your creativity, right. But you know, so there's a balance. So how we do this, and I think we're gonna get to a next level of normalization, where we'll fit into this next phase where it will be normal to work maybe two days, a dark days, or three days in the office, a quarterly meeting where people comes together, you know, the service providers, or, you know, the vendors goes in the customer side and spends a lot of time that comes back to their home base, will reach to that next level of normalization, or we'll stop talking about it a hybrid model, it's all or nothing, etc, etc. Because I don't think we'll ever go back to how it was command control, you know, five days a week, you know, like the two weeks of vacation. We were beyond that, right? Leadership and influence and inspiration. And,

Greg Voisen
and just pardon me, Feisal, but if you look at our gross national product, and our productivity levels, and everything that's going on inside these companies, the actual metrics indicate that there wasn't a reduction in this arena, that actually you're now seeing more and more people that are wealthy as a result of the stock market, that are the companies are doing better, they're performing better. And it's a result of them willing to shift the way in which they operated their businesses and break out of those old Piscean models. I'm going to call them Piscean models, because they were they were pretty command and control. And so with that being said, you know, you your company deals with cybersecurity or the lack thereof, and the affected issues with that. And we all hear it all the time about what's going on and to protect yourselves. What's the cost to our businesses associated with breaches, insecurity because you advise the government as well? And how can businesses make themselves less vulnerable? Because the more we use technology, the more we potentially have these threats of cybersecurity from outside countries from people inside our country, whatever it might be. So what would you say people need to be thinking about?

Faisal Hoque
Oh, come in. You know, cybersecurity is one of the many risk among a lot of different things. So whenever you we are investing in this new set of technologies The and if you look at, especially mid to large size organization where there's a lot of technology, cyber security is a critical factor. Security is a critical factor in general, how you make those decisions in terms of what you are, you know, implementing how you're auditing, how you're putting together your barriers, how you're putting together, your, you know, daily audit, etc, etc, if you don't have that part and parcel of your practice, you aren't going to be, you know, in serious trouble, right? So it's like, you know, it's like, if you don't, you know, I mean, because your data can be stolen, your customer data can be stolen, your your critical information can be stolen at any given time, right? Because the more connected you are more exposed you are, so you have to protect yourself. And every decision you make in terms of new technology, you know, risk factor from security is a critical factor. And if we can probably spend like, next two days, just talk about the element of physical security your life to deal with it.

Greg Voisen
I think you're really just saying to the listeners, you know, check your systems, make sure that you have a level or at least a checklist around the security for your operation, no matter what size your business, I think it's an important element. And, and again, they're companies that advise people on what to do and how to do this. And you should get in touch with that. I think that's important. Now you and I started off this quest here when we're talking about Greg just

Faisal Hoque
want one other point on that, right. So often in that what a lot of companies don't do, they invest in technology, but they don't invest in sustainment digital security is part of your sustainment model, right meaning that the constant up keeping and revisiting and that is part of your sustainment. So, if you are when you are making a new technology investment, if you don't consider the sustainable investment, then you're not doing a service to yourself. Sorry,

Greg Voisen
I think it's important point you make I mean, it looks like changing the oil in your car. If you're not driving an electric car, you want to make sure you're maintaining it and an even if you're driving an electric car, you better be maintaining it as well. Again, this is the book reinvent with Feisal Hoke, we're going to ask this question. Because we started or pre the show, we started talking about AI. And we've actually delved in it a little bit. But you stated in the book that opting for digitization, without the added impact of complementary technology is akin to getting electricity in the early 20th century, but choosing to never plug it in. In your expert opinion. How will artificial intelligence affect many of the associated elements of doing business? As we know it? Because it's one thing to say, Well, yeah, I can go on and get Gemini I can go on and get chat, GBT, I can go on and get all these places now to do tasks that I don't need to do anymore. If a machine is going to do it for me, but I have to think it through to the next level, what are these alternative or complementary technologies that you're speaking about here in the book?

Faisal Hoque
Look, so So what happens is that, you know, it depends on the task. Now, there are different types of, you know, I mean, if you look at AI, it's at the very initial stages, we're talking really about generative API, which means that even model, you can fit the model with a lot of knowledge. And as a result, the model being gives you back a pattern, right? So that means if you say, Okay, I want to know about XYZ topic, you go to a particular entity, that x that that focus on that particular knowledge base, and it gives you that right, so that, so it's getting more and more granular. So you will have an engine that maybe do medical research, you may have an engine that does automated image generation, etc. So it's a nascent stage of AI. As time goes by, it's gonna get more and more advanced, where it can develop certain level of critical thinking, but to the skip to the same level of human level of critical thinking, we're probably 10 years 1520 30 years behind that, right. So how do you take advantage of these generative AI models? It depends on what you do, what's the past you're trying to accomplish? So I mean, chat. GPT is a very generic form of AI, or you can go and ask anything and everything. And so what do you get for this all back? It's also very generic, and half the time it's meaningless, right? It sounds good, but it's many years, right? So so it really depends on what you're trying to do. So you have to really start with what is it that you want to do and what is it that you want to automate or augments It will be helpful for you, and then look for that particular tool. So let's take a very simple example, if you send out, I have a large volume of, of, you know, writing that I have, and I want to convert them into PowerPoint presentation, because I do a lot of presentation, as a teacher as the presenter, whatever the case may be, then you look for the correct type of tool. So you're seeing this emergence of very specific task oriented tool, the trick is knowing what would be helpful for the things you do, and then go get that tool, because what will happen with that is that it will allow you to do it faster. But even that example I just gave you, I tried out, I mean, just my personal example, I tried out about five different tools, that does expect more than just said, I a lot of writing that I've done, or to convert them into a slide, let's see what they cover half of the time, they've come up with stuff that are absolutely useless, they submit the content, the content is bastardize, etc, etc. So you still have to go and do the work. But what will happen, you know, fast forward, two years from now, it will get better, and it will generate the right image. And it will summarize your work much better than it was, you know, that used to be the one example.

Greg Voisen
Not pointing to any examples. But I have tried this beautiful AI, which is one that makes PowerPoint presentations. And I agree with you. It's relatively rudimentary, at its current stages right now. But as time goes on, just like you said, these are going to get smarter and better. And my son, who's it, Adobe turned me on to stuff Adobe's done with the image creation. Yeah, granted, some rudimentary right now. But if you do put in a good prompt, you can come up with some pretty damn good images, even for that to like, stick into your PowerPoint. Right? So I absolutely

Faisal Hoque
100% I mean, you know, same with with like, I use a tool called perplexity.ai. It's a paid tool, it's focused on doing a better search, but enabled, it allows it, it allows me to choose different models, whether it's GPT, three GPT, for whatever, you know, and what it does is it puts the citation. So for either, you know, like, sometimes I forgot what I said 10 years ago. So I will go in there. And what did I say about this? Pull me up from this particular set of podcast I talked about and it will summarize and give you my, give me the citation, which is helpful, right? So imagine if you can do that today, what will happen two or three years from now, right, you will get to a totally different level, that will be much more helpful than

Greg Voisen
Well, I think I think the complementary technologies you're talking about are more specialized. And they're out there, and they're coming. There's more all the time. And I think people just pay attention, because it helps to refine the feedback that you're getting out of the AI. Now you address a roster of common digital transformation roadblocks in the book, can you outline for the listeners, with what those roadblocks are, and how we best buy in and commit from a management standpoint to accomplish some level of transformation, even though these roadblocks are in our could be in our way?

Faisal Hoque
I'll just mentioned three I mean, I think overall, we identified about like 12 to 15 of them. But let's let's take three critical one. One is that a clarity of vision by leadership often enough, there is no clear idea of what transformation means. Transformation is not just about technology, it's about your business model. It's about your culture, how you do things, etc, etc. Right? So the clarity of vision by the leadership is a critical one. Second is that clarity, you know, the communication of that clarity and having tangible things that you can point to that the team as a whole needs to produce and more importantly, why they need to produce is how you get them on board behind your your idea, right? Often enough, leadership cannot articulate that. And as a result, the workforce can buy into it, right. So let's say we're going to buy this new system, and we're going to replace the old system, but he's not really explaining why you're doing it, how it benefits them, and how it's going to benefit the overall organization at a level that that's understandable by somebody's like three levels down, who's doing a data entry, another example. Right? So that clarity and that translating that clarity into why and how and how it impacts them is a critical factor. And number three is that don't look at as managing the implementation of technology as, as the critical factor of transformation. Yes, it is a factor. But managing the process and managing the communication, and managing the value that you're going to generate out of it is even more important than actually managing the technology. Right? And the last one, is that the fact that you have to go where the money is meaning, what is the biggest value from a financial point of view, that you're going to gain, short term and long term from the investment, and managing the risk around it is another critical factor, right. So these are like 234, critical factors that we talked about. And it's all related to, by the way, not necessarily technology, it's about leadership, and management, and how you drive innovation and the culture, as much as utilizing what technology that you want to use. Well, I

Greg Voisen
know reinvent focuses on that. And you do focus on moving from management toward leadership. And you outline and you this isn't the first book you put it in. But your five step lifts process, and I think it's valuable for people to understand because this lifts process, it's worth the purchase of the book just for that. And you can actually go back in to some other some of your other books and lifts is in there. Again, it's like a recurring theme. So it must be important enough for you to stick it in more than one book, tell the listeners what the lifts is, and why it would move people out of just managing and into one a leadership and move the company forward.

Faisal Hoque
Lifted either from a poor five steps, right, so and at a fundamental level, you know, the leaders who does well start with and not just dampen learning, but creating a learning organization, if you don't know what's happening outside? And if you don't understand what are the deficiencies that you're creating inside. And where are your gaps are, this is the inner and outer learning, that starts everything. So it has to start with a learning culture, opportunity, as well as your gaps and how you connect your opportunity with the gap. So that's one second thing is investigating the opportunities, you know, where, where, where and how the art of possibilities that you want to take your organization to. Third is that you have to be able to formulate what's happening in terms of that vision, and how that vision impacts your organization and the people and making it happen. Right. So that's, so if you're looking at live learning, investigating, formulating. And then the third thing is that, you know, the fourth thing is that you have to be able to, you know, the case form that that ideation to value creation, right. And the last thing is that you have to be able to sustain that model over and over again. So this learning, investigating, formulating and transforming and sustaining is essentially the five step model. And obviously, in the book, we'll go into like minutiae detail, what it means for each one of those areas, and do it in a repeatable manner. But that has to become the cultural DNA, if it's not part of your culture, because transformation is not a one time thing. It's a journey, you start if you keep repeating doing it, because as we're talking about the same conversation I had 25 years ago, and we're talking about the fundamental remains the same, but technology is completely different.

Greg Voisen
I appreciate you going through that. And I think there's two of those up that acronym lifts, L is learning in essence, sustainability, I would take the first and the last one. And the reality is if you if you encourage a learning organization, if you encourage what I'm going to call curiosity, if you encourage this innovation with inside of it, and you find a way to sustain this key, that's a key one, your last one within the organization, you will have success. And I get that you have three other letters there. But the reality the first one and the last one, to me, probably the most important once you know, in the chapter of the future organization used to speak about sustainability of the in a transforming analyzation How do leaders sustain transformation so that it's always at the leading it's the leading initiative with inside the organization is one thing to make a change. It's another thing to actually sustain that

Faisal Hoque
100% You know, look, often enough, you will see the transformation is very personality driven. A leader comes in a charismatic leader infuses vision and it it, it transform to the next level, then it takes a die, right? The reason it takes a die, because you haven't put together the system that enables others to do the same thing, as the leader, charismatic leader does, did, right. So that system meaning the way you think the way you learn the way you do the way you reinvigorate new technology, it has to become part of the cultural norm. So often enough, you know, when I go to this is very much applicable in especially in a large organization, in a large organization, you know, this this all, saying that leaders are the people who create other leaders, I actually said the leader are the, the new generation leaders create systems and processes, so that the creation of new leaders never ends, right. It's not a one to one thing is the culture of long term. Sustainability comes from creating that systemic thinking and establishing the process that allows the organization to learn, and then ultimately sustain, regardless of whoever the leader is.

Greg Voisen
In it, you know, you're emphasizing important points, that I think, look, if anybody picks up this book, and just takes pieces out of from the lifts process, they're going to actually be able to put a process in their business that literally could help the transformation at business quicker, faster, more efficiently, and most importantly, developing the right leaders to do it, right, finding who they are the ones that are jazzed about it, and really want to take on the initiatives and really are driven around, you know, I don't want to call it transferring, transforming the, the business and I would say you said it earlier, the culture because the culture is so so important. And that means it's the people, you know, you're going to hire a players, not C players, you're going to try and retain those eight players to stay on and get on with the vision, the leader is going to hold that vision and it's going to create great transformation. And you're going to do good for the world. Now, in summing up here. You know, the books, the study of transformation, that's what you're all about almost every element of the business. If you were to leave these listeners today, with some sage advice from Feisal hoch to them on reinventing their business to approach the organization in a way to transform it, what would you inform them of both the good and the challenging? What are they going to be faced with? What would you tell them?

Faisal Hoque
So first thing I would say that become a conscious mindful leader, because be conscious of what's going on within yourself. So that the way you articulate your vision, and the way you communicate and rally your team behind candles in a in an impactful and positive way. And and that's and that's also allows you to understand what's going on outside of the organization, this consciousness of what's going on outside, and what's inside and connecting the dots is what leadership is all about. So that's, that's, that's the first number one criteria of, of transforming anything, that's one of the challenges that often enough, we get very focused on tactical crises of the day, and forget the long term, you know, things that needs to get done in front in order for the organization to survive. So as a leader, it's your job to manage the daily killers, while having a steadfast look on what's going to be important 369 12 months from now. And if you can focus on that, then the euro crisis manager, not a transformative leader, right. So don't be a crisis manager only be a transformative leader. So those are the two things that will leak organism, anybody?

Greg Voisen
Well, I live by listeners with this. I remember an interview I did with Rita McGrath around her book seeing around corners. And I think that what you really have to do is you have to have the ability to put the dots together. And you can't put the dots together. As Steve Jobs said, looking backwards. You can only put the dots together going forward. That was in his famous speech that he did at Stanford. And I think Rita emphasizes that as well. And to be a really good leader. You need to be looking into the future in the front mirror, not the rearview mirror and not spending all your time. And with that data can be then derived to make decisions about what's moving forward for the next 912 1618 months to make you an effective leader. And that's what I would say, because I think that it's valuable, go out and get a copy of this book, reinvent by Faisal Hoch, we're gonna put a link to his website as well. We're gonna put a link to the book and you can get it on Amazon. And Feisal, thanks for making this donation to whether it's leukemia society or wherever you're giving the money from the proceeds of the book, I really, sincerely thank you for doing that. And for my listeners, you know, I have a nonprofit compassionate communications Foundation. We support through that the people, refugees from Ukraine, we buy bicycles for the kids that are being displaced from their homes. And we also do that here in the States. I actually work on the streets with the homeless. So I would encourage you to support me in that endeavor. And we want to thank everybody for listening and inside personal growth. And by so thanks so much for your wisdom and support today. It was really great having you back on again. Let's not wait another nine years in between.

Faisal Hoque
Thank you for having me. It's such an honor and pleasure to be on your show.

Greg Voisen
Right? And Namaste to you my friend. Thanks so much.

Faisal Hoque
Thank you.