Welcome back to Inside personal growth. This is Greg voisen, the host of inside personal growth, joining you from Encinitas, California, and joining us from Santa. Barbara is a returning author guest, and it's Dave Rico. And for all of you who want to learn more about Dave and all of his 35 plus books, I think it is that, right, Dave,

David Richo
20,

Greg Voisen
all right. I don't know how I got the extra 15, but I gave you, I gave you credit for 35 is Dave Rico. He's a PhD and MFT and a psychotherapist. He's a teacher, a workshop leader and a writer, and he works out of Santa Barbara and San Francisco. He combines union poetic and mystic perspectives in his work with the intention of integrating the psychological and the spiritual. And I appreciate that about Dave, because so much can be learned from our own spiritual perspective. I was just speaking with a few days ago, Ken Wilber, of all people, on a new book called Radical wholeness. And as you know, Ken is quite the thinker and gets people to really look at their life in a different way. And I think you do too, from a both the Budd and Christian spiritual practices of of which you come. So thank you for being on we're going to you do have a copy of this book, everyday commitments, because that's what we're going to be talking about. There it is. That's the book everyone everyday commitments. And the subtitle is choosing a life of love, realism and acceptance. Okay, so, but

David Richo
it's not in book form. It's in it's only in Kindle. Kindle, yeah,

Greg Voisen
and I think my listeners will appreciate that they're going to save a tree today. So, but the reality is is it doesn't matter how you get it. I think today's podcast, we're going to take a really deep dive into not only the emotional side, but psychological side. So like you've written, as you said, 20 books over your career, and what really prompted you to write everyday commitments specifically, and how does the book fit into the your really your larger body of work? Because when I look at all the books you've written, we were just talking about long years before we came on the air. There is a weaving in between all of these. And I'd like for you to kind of give the listeners some perspective on that.

David Richo
Thank you, Greg, and thanks for inviting me. The origin of the book is very simple. I was working in a an alcohol recovery program, and we were on the topic of the inventory that people who were in the 12 step program Alcoholics Anonymous engage in, and the inventory is puts the accent on you know how you have hurt others and how you want to make up for it, and that certainly is an important part of recovery. It also occurred to me that maybe we could expand what we need to look at when we do our inventory and ask ourselves how we were not acting in integrity at various times in our lives, and how We were not showing the love that's in us. So that led me to put together a list of commitments that a person can make that bring more integrity and loving kindness into their lives, and

Greg Voisen
it's funny, you mentioned that the because just prior to this, I was on the line with Amy Sandler, and the book is radical candor. And you know, it's, it's hit in the corporate world, really big. And I think, you know, your books are are designed as well. If people read these, bring this into business. You don't have to separate. You can bring this into your personal life, and you need to. But you outlined 52 commitments that would foster self respect and loving kindness. So loving kindness is the key word here, because that's up to yourself and the people around you, especially if you were working in NAA. So how'd you arrive at these specific commitments, and what inspired you, basically to kind of expand upon this AA program and say, hey, look, there are other things we should be looking at other than what was being looked at inside of AA, because 52 is a lot more, but you got one for every week. So I kind of figured it was like, Okay, this is a great thing. He's got one commitment for every week.

David Richo
Well, I've been a psychotherapist for over 50 years, and one thing I've noticed is that as people get healthier, they act automatically with more integrity and more love. So I asked myself, what are the qualities that I've been seeing in others and that I see and want to see in myself? I listed them, and that's how I came up with the 52

Greg Voisen
Okay, so these,

David Richo
and of course, their, their, their original purpose was to be of assistance to anyone in any 12 step program who wants to design a life that In which you come across with love, realism and acceptance, which is our subtitle, this book was revised, and the new version of it is called coming home to who you are. And that isn't is a physical book and Kindle book, okay, so people can this one, or the coming people get, or

Greg Voisen
you can get the Kindle of this one, or coming home to who you are, and you can get that as a physical book, if you like. It that way, because this was an an offshoot of that. Now look, one of the core ideas in the book is about saying yes to reality. And can you expand on how this acceptance of life's Givens right? What we're given, such as change, right? Which is what we're all dealing with right now, uncertainty, which we're all dealing with right now. It's prolific in previous times. It didn't seem to be this way. It seems as if we've been thrust into a different error. And I know you come from an age category that I do, and I think when you get older, your perspective about this gets sometimes a little bit more sometimes narrow. I'm hoping mine isn't so narrow. But can, how could we bring more peace into our daily lives? I think that's the key. Versus more frustration, versus more uncertainty, versus feeling anxious, versus feeling all these things that you meet with people about to psychologically help them accept and or overcome through whatever techniques that you use in your psychotherapy,

David Richo
what helps me the most was the prayer that was written by Lutheran minister in 1943 Reinhold Niebuhr, God grant me the grace to accept The things I cannot change. Change the things I can and have the wisdom to know the difference. So in the first one is the serenity to accept what the givens are, the things in life that you can't change, and to distinguish those from what you can change, and to have the courage to do these changes, and then finally, to have the wisdom to know the difference, to know the difference, yeah, so that's where I came up with the idea of Givens. I said to myself, well, what does he actually mean by the things we cannot change? And I thought to myself, well, that that would be like, you know, in high school geometry, we had the givens. Shortest distance between two points is a straight line. You don't have to prove it. It's a given. And I thought, well, what are the things in human life that you don't have to prove their Gibbons. And I come up with five specific ones, which became my book, the five things we kind of change. And the five are to to realize that everything changes and ends. What you just brought up to see that suffering is part of life. It's not a punishment because you were bad, and happiness is not a reward because you were good. It's just a given that all of us will experience suffering at one time or another, and that would be one of the things to accept.

Greg Voisen
Well, that's a Buddhist, if I accept it good. Budd precept is, you know, going to have pain. The question is, do we have to accept the suffering it goes along with it, right? It's like pain and suffering. And I and I reflect back on your books are phenomenal, especially the longings book, because I think you can create a lot of suffering around longings. And I remember not that long ago, watching a documentary that the famous psychologist Phil Stutz, was in around his tools, right? And one of the things it's it he says you're going to gain insights is into life's complexities and navigate the challenges of love, loss and success, right? And I thought it was very poignant how you know he's getting much older type writing these little handwritten notes and things that he did right? And you've done so much work in this area, how would you comment about some of the things that your 52 commitments could help somebody through these challenges that everybody faces around loss, success and love.

David Richo
Well, a loss would be the first, given that things change. So we're going to sometimes lose what we had things, and we're going to lose what we had and in even a more severe way. And my proposal is that we come from an unconditional yes to the way things are, rather than quarreling with reality. So these five things that there are hundreds of Givens, but the five that I noted includes the one you mentioned, also that there will be suffering, also that life is not fair, that people are not always loyal and loving, that the plans that we make don't always come through for us. So instead of blaming ourselves for how inadequate we are, we would, we would realize that, well, there are some things that just happen, and it's up to me to distinguish, do I accept this with my unconditional Yes, which is the equivalent of a prayerful response, or do I fight it tooth and nail and then be or blame other people or blame the world for what's happening, or blame God for what's happening. That's not going to get us anywhere. So if you want the serenity, you go with the unconditional Yes, it's not giving in, it's acknowledging

Greg Voisen
and it's not giving up. I want to distinguish that it isn't giving up and it isn't giving out. And I think one of the things that helps us get there, and you did a lot of writing in the book about this, and we talked about it earlier, is emphasized the cultivation of loving kindness as an essential practice. My listeners out there, anybody who's listening right now, how can someone struggling with self criticism, you know, low self esteem, the egos telling them they're not enough, they've not done much work on the subconscious to really realize what's going on and what's been supplanted in there. But how can they begin to foster loving kindness toward themselves, because I think this is a huge step to say I love myself.

David Richo
Well, first, let's ask what love is, and I came up with something. I don't know if you would agree, but it's kind of a working definition for me. Um, this 3c Love is a caring, committed connection. So when I care about myself by taking care of my body with diet and exercise. I am loving myself when I am committed to living a life of integrity and love of others. I am loving myself when I maintain connection with my own inner life and my daily feelings, and let them be okay and and work with them and acknowledge them. I am loving myself. It doesn't have to be it doesn't have to feel Fuzzy Wuzzy. It can be very matter of fact, I took care of myself today by speaking up and being assertive when somebody was trying to take advantage of me. That was a way of taking care of myself. Taking care of is the same as loving myself. So I look at it that way, and I'm wondering if that makes sense to you, do you like that concept connection

Greg Voisen
most certainly, because you know those three descriptor words are ways that I can relate to what loving means, right? I think one of the other ones would be compassionate, compassionate with myself, right? And I like this in these commitments, these 52 commitments, you say grounded, not swayed, and you encourage the readers to remain centered, right? So this is like a deep center where you can stand despite all the challenges. It's like in the middle of a tornado. At the center of the tornado is really not where all the the destruction is happening. It's in the outskirts of that tornado. And I sometimes feel that our listeners, including myself, feel like sometimes we're in the outskirts of that tornado being twisted and turned around and everything else. Now, what practical strategies can you help people maintain, and I want to underline maintain to get to this grounded point, especially in moments of emotional overwhelm. So think of it as here I am in the center of the circle. I'm grounded. Here I am in the whirlwind of the tornado not so grounded, emotionally feeling upset, emotionally feeling distraught, anxious, whatever it might be, all the emotions that we could describe. How do you help them stay grounded?

David Richo
Well, let's take a simple example, and this will be one of the commitments. One of the commitments has to do with no longer retaliating when people offend us. Instead, we keep ourselves grounded by not being triggered into being as mean toward them as they are toward us, and instead, we say ouch. That's our assertive reporting of how we feel hurt by what someone has said or done. So you have to be at least assertive enough to be able to do that part. Let yourself feel the grief that is happening within you. So you're acknowledging your actual feeling of hurt and grief, and you're speaking up and saying Ouch, and then you're attempting to open up some kind of dialog with the one who offended you, so that you could reconcile, and rather than continue back and forth, retaliating. So that would be an example of how you would now be grounded in that moment of her, and you certainly aren't going to permit the herd to go on. That also keeps you grounded. That's an example of how the commitment to non retaliation is the same as no longer being so triggered that you're thrown off, but rather remaining grounded. I

Greg Voisen
think what's important for our Listen, what are important for our listeners to remember is the more you engage with the emotion associated that triggered you to be upset by this, the more it hurts you. Now, that's a hard one sometimes to take because, you know, people, yesterday I saw myself get upset at a doctor's office at the true incompetence. I'm really just bringing this down to a real basic level here. And the woman on the other end of the phone just kept saying, we don't have you in your records. We don't you know, she wouldn't hear anything else that everything else had been taken care of. It was there, and I did. I exploded. I was like, Oh my gosh, you know, how can this doctor's office be so incompetent or put they don't train their people. They're, they're not nice, they're, you know, all these kind of things, all these things went through my head. And then afterwards, I thought, man, was I sucked down the rabbit hole because I allowed myself to go there. And I think we're all human. We all have those emotions, we all have those experiences, but that's one, but one of the biggest ones we all face as a result of this is, and I think it's a driver where people say there's only two really big ones, fear and love. Well, the reality is, I wasn't acting very loving, but I was acting fearful because I wasn't getting my appointment. I was afraid, right? So I came from fear. So you you say fear is often a barrier to our personal growth. How can the commitment to a freedom from the grip of fear. Help somebody really transform their relationship with fear?

David Richo
Well, first of all, the reason I have the title freedom from the grip of fear is because I don't believe we'll ever be fully free of fear, nor do we want to be we want to be afraid when we hear the rattle of a rattlesnake so we won't disturb him and get bitten. So we do need our fear for those kind of situations, but when you're no longer driven by fear to act in us in a certain way, or stopped by fear from acting in certain way. That's the equivalence of being freed from the grip of fear. So you don't want fear to take over and make you do what you don't want to do or not do what you do want to do when it can no longer stop and drive you or drive you, but you let yourself still feel the fear. So it's feel the fear and do it anyway. I'm feeling afraid, but I'm not going to act on the fear by stopping myself or pushing myself into something that I don't really want to do now what, what helped me the most was I put together a list of affirmations that help you free yourself from fear. These are in my book, when love needs fear. But if you go to my website, Dave rico.com, D, A, B, E, R, I, C, H, O, I have on that first page, there's a button for free articles. I'm there. The first one should be

Greg Voisen
affirmations for letting go of fear. It's 12 minutes and 40 seconds. We also have one, the lecture, the Sermon on the Mount. That one goes on for three or four audios. But that is a good place for my listeners to go. Just go. Dave rico.com, forward slash free, hyphen book. That'll take you to the free articles. But in this case, it's audio streaming, so that's awesome. That's a great place. Listen to

David Richo
those. It takes about, I don't know it's maybe like 10 minutes, but if you listen to those every day, you're guaranteed to have less fear, because you know, you start being aware of where your fears lodge inside your body, and you also release the fears that are neurotic and hold you back and shouldn't Be there. We want to have the healthy fears,

Greg Voisen
not the unhealthy ones, which I yeah, I'd like the one that I got yesterday. Like, now you just talked about an incident of being taken advantage of. And I want to go back to the book talks about respectful assertiveness. You said you had to be assertive with I don't know what the incident was. Doesn't matter, but the fact was, is that you had to be assertive. How can someone develop the balance between being assertive while still being compassionate and respectful toward the other person? Because they're not a conundrum in my world, but in many people's worlds, there would kind of be a conundrum between a I'm going to be assertive, I'm going to be compassionate. You're saying you can be I just interviewed an author, Dr David Yazmin. Her book is called graciously, assertive. Okay, so the question is, in business or in personal life. How do we do what you're calling respectfully assertive?

David Richo
I see assertiveness as the middle way. So on one end of the spectrum, we have passivity. Let people walk all over you. At the other end of the spectrum, we have aggression. Aggression walk all over people. And in the middle is assertiveness. So Goldilocks wise, too much assertiveness is aggressive, not enough. Assertiveness is passive, and just right is the healthy assertiveness, which is always respectful, but always does bring up what you're feeling right now. I'm feeling angry, you know, based on what you said. I really feel an ouch with this. And you know, I want to talk about that's what you sound like when you're assertive. Rather than just suck it up. Don't say anything. I don't want to. I don't want to arouse the other person's anger. I don't want to lose him as a friend, so I'll just let it go. That's not assertiveness, that's appeasing, which is on the passive side, we also don't want to blame the other person. What the heck is wrong with you? You're really a jerk. That's the aggression. But when you just speak up and declare what you're feeling in response to what the other person has said or done, that's the assertiveness, and by the way, the retaliation is on the aggression side,

Greg Voisen
very well put. And I think so we're the middle ground, just like the Buddhist middle way. And I like that look. We all know how good it is to give gratitude every day, to give gratitude for what we've got for for our life, and to help people through gratitude. Give gratitude that way, and it plays a significant role in these commitments. How does practicing gratitude, and you say, practicing, I think you can become consciously grateful in every moment, if you choose that, but to regularly shift our mindset, which is really the key, and how can it help us overcome these feelings you call of entitlement? Because the reality is, is that in from my world, I gratitude, even at this late stage in my life, at 70, and having done courses in spiritual psychology and everything, I still don't always see the gratitude. It ebbs and flows. You know, it's like, okay, I'm grateful today. Oh no, I wasn't so grateful yesterday. How would you help people even out that peaks and valleys of gratefulness?

David Richo
What helps me the most is being conscious of what's called what in religion is called grace. In religious terms, grace is a special gift from the Holy Spirit, yep. But you can also think of grace as the gift dimension of life that we've all experienced at one time or another. Now, the accent in the self help movement is, what are the practices and exercises that we can do put effort in to make changes in our lives? But that's, to me, is only half of the story. There's effort and there's grace, somehow you would start becoming aware that that there are certain levels of growth happening in you that you didn't make happen. It just seems to be happening by themselves. I think the best description I've ever seen of the difference between effort and grace and we need both is from st Teresa of Avila. She's a Spanish mystic and she said, when I water my garden, that's effort. When it rains, that's grace. I didn't make it great rain. It just happened, and I'm thankful that it happened. That's the gratitude. So we're we're thankful for the graces. And one of the commitments in in the book everyday commitments, is to to be able to say, I'm thankful for the gifts that have come through me, rather than from the

Greg Voisen
that's a good one. I just completed an interview with John Baldoni. The book is called grace under pressure and and I relate to the fact that when we're under pressure, that's the time we're most challenged to actually consider grace. You know, in other words, it's like, okay, this is a very stressful situation, which kind of leads me to this question for you. One of the commitments is about freedom from stress. Okay, great, great point. I don't know if we're ever going to be free from stress, but maybe, maybe, what are some tangible steps individuals could take to reduce stress while still staying committed to their life's aspiration, their life purpose, their life mission, because this the stress seems to be, if you allow it, almost like a non stop, because we move at such a, you know, I call it thriving in a world of ever increasing complexity. I wrote a book once called wisdom, wellness and redefining work thriving in a world of ever increasing complexity. I wrote another one called Never mind the noise, and it was always the subtitle was always thriving in a world of ever increasing complexity. Now, my perception at the time when I wrote those is that we lived in a world of ever increasing complexity. I'm not certain that my personal perspective has changed, and what I'm asking you is freedom from stress, because that complexity, when we can't manage it, seems to create stress. Dave and so how do you help me? Just heed me great voice and get out of feeling overwhelmed by all the complexity that creates stress.

David Richo
My first response is mindfulness, in which you sit daily for, you know, maybe 1520 minutes, if, if you can, and you just let yourself be in the present moment. And when those stresses come through your mind and body, you are simply letting them go and coming back to your breathing, which is even in regular and even when you kind of take three deep breaths, you notice that you have less stress. So first, it would be first. My first response is, mindful meditation, deep breathing, just letting yourself be in the present moment without getting caught in all the thoughts that gather around the stress like I was wrong. They were wrong. I'm scared. I'm worried about what's going to happen. Those feelings and thoughts will come through your mind, but you're just going to let them go one by one. So that's my first response. My second is, of course, the the prayer that I mentioned before, somewhere in me is the serenity to accept the things that I will have no control over today, which is most things, either from the news or from my own life. Yeah, and I want to have an unconditional Yes. So that's the way it is, and that gives me serenity, instead of stress

Greg Voisen
that, and that's not giving in, as you said. And

David Richo
then I will have some areas where I can make a change. Somewhere in me is the courage to do that. I act as if I had courage. That is the equivalent of courage and the wisdom. I look ask the Holy Spirit or Buddha or the universe, may I have the wisdom to know the difference? So you're putting those two together. Does a lot to help you in stress.

Greg Voisen
I think accepting what is it sounds like such a simple term. It is a simple term. The key is to embed it with inside of you, with inside of your, your your body, to understand that there's this mind body spirit connection, and that in that mind body spirit connection, I'm accepting what is and I'm not resisting, I'm not pushing away from it. And I think many of the things that happened to us, our first reaction is to push from them, push, try and push it away. I didn't really want it. I don't know why it came today. And pardon me for saying people would say, God damn it. You know why did that happen? The other thing is, as you said, to graciously be able to accept it or grace under pressure. So let's talk about this concept that you talk about, which is egoless intimacy. I think many people deal with the issues in a relationship, and I want to know how they can let go of there's egos need or control or validation in the relationships to create deeper, more meaningful connections. And it was interesting the other day. I don't know if you're aware of this, but the the person who used to translate Freud's work, okay, obviously, was German. Writing in German, translated i and it as ego. Right now, I didn't, I didn't really realize this, but the reality is, everybody's been going along talking about the ego, right? And I was really fascinated by the fact that all these years it was a misinterpretation of a translation of what Freud had actually talked about. I honestly I didn't know that, but it was,

David Richo
it's I, and it's not ego, and it which exactly words for that,

Greg Voisen
yeah, yeah. But yet, we've all taken on this egoless ego. We relate to ego a lot as to how it affects us, right? And it's really the I that's affecting us, right? The big guy, yeah. So the question is around relationships and this egoless intimacy, and how that can help, how we can fix that?

David Richo
Well, the the first step, of course, is total dismantling of that big, inflated, entitled ego. There can never be intimacy between two people if one of them is an ego with all its entitlements and demands and need to be in control, so you would have to, and I point this out in my book, How to be an Adult in relationships. You me, anyone would have to do some work on becoming humble before you could ever be intimate with another person. You can't come from that arrogant position of you owe me. You're supposed to fulfill all my needs. It has to be we're going to grant hospitality to each other's needs. And my purpose is not to this is a quote from from the everyday commitments. My purpose is not to gratify my ego, but to free myself from ego so I can gratify the intimate relationship. And you know, it's a very big job, because the ego hides in in our behavior, thoughts and reactions, and we hardly even notice it, but it's not very appealing to other people when you're coming from that selfish position. So when you want real intimacy, both people would need to, you know, take a look at how big an ego they come in with, and see if they can do some ego reduction so that there's room for love. I do want to also add that ego can also be used in another sense, the healthy part of you that you want to build a healthy ego. Ego in psychology does not refer to what I just described. I'm describing the big ego. But the the word ego in psychology means the healthy part of us that knows its goals and fulfills them. That's the ego we want to build. And if your goal in relationship is true, intimacy, healthy exchange, then you're going to let go of the other kind of ego, which is the big, inflated one.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, well, these, these 52 commitments that are in everyday commitments, as we said, was the expansion from this work that you were doing when you were working in naa group. And I think that they're, they're quite valued, valuable, and people could just take one every week. You could hold the book up again, because I have my final question coming up for you. That's the book. Everybody go out and get it. We'll put a link to it, everyday commitments. Now, you know one of the things that is talked about a lot, Brene Brown, you name it, vulnerability and authenticity, right? You You hear it a lot today, and especially around leadership. You know, is the leader vulnerable? And is that leader being authentic? And are they self? Are they honest? What are some of the key insights that we are being in the opposite of authentic or being inauthentic. And how can we bring to work, or how can we work to bring our authentic selves to really all the interactions. Now, if you were to kind of put it in and give, give the listeners, like three tips from the book. This would be a great place to do it, because this is, to me, I think, one of the most important commitments that you talk about.

David Richo
Well, the first would be that you're no longer trying to look good. You're no longer trying to portray yourself with a persona that will impress everybody you have instead made it much more valuable to show yourself as you really are, warts and all, and you love being found out as who you really are, rather than continually making yourself look better than you really are. So that's the first part. Second part is to accept your own shadow, which would be the, shall we say, part of ourselves that we keep hidden, that we don't realize is even in there. I didn't realize how selfish I am, I didn't realize how prejudice I am. I didn't realize how I think of myself first and don't think of others I don't like those qualities and other people, but I know I don't have them in me. So when you get it that if you don't like it in somebody else, it probably is in you, and that's called the shadow work. For that, I recommend my book called Shadow Dance. And then third is the letting go of fear of just letting life unfold exactly as it intends to, rather than trying to be in full control. So I would see those three as helpful.

Greg Voisen
Those are three great points that you make, and accepting what is, and moving out of fear. Those are two big ones, or at least recognizing when you are in fear, taking a deep breath, understanding it, use your breath work, use your mindfulness, and then don't let your emotion take over and react to find yourself in a position where you've said something to somebody that you regret you said. These all may sound really simple, but they're always worth repeating. I'm going to tell all my listeners, go get the book everyday commitments. Because the reality is, the expansion work that you did, anything that has to do with AA work is good work. And the fact that you took this and moved it into a much bigger list, you said in the beginning of this podcast, this is the list. Go to Dave's website. It's Dave rico.com there you can learn more. You also have the affirmations which we said, which was free hyphen book. So Dave Rico, word slash free hyphen book. We'll put a link to that as well. Dave always an honor, a pleasure to have you on, we always get into nice dialog. I appreciate you and all these 20 books you've written, I will tell my listeners too. I'm going to put a link back to longings. If you have any interest in that podcast. We'll put a link in there to the longings podcast because it was excellent and it is really a good book for people to ponder. So thank you. Thank you. Namaste to you. Have a wonderful rest of your day and your morning, and thanks for being on.

David Richo
Thanks a lot. Appreciate it. All