Greg Voisen
Welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. This is Greg Voisen and the host of Inside Personal Growth. And joining us from just a little bit outside of dinner in Denver, he said, is Joey Klein, and Joey has a book out, called the Inner Matrix. And the subtitle is leveraging the art and science of personal mastery to create real life results. Joy, good day, dia, how you doing?

Joey Klein
Hey, I'm doing awesome, man, thank you so much for having me.

Greg Voisen
Well, we appreciate you having you. We, you know, this shows been on the air 15 years and personal growth is our I want to call her lane, but there's like four lanes. And there's some in spirituality, personal growth, wellness, and personal mastery. And I think you cover all of those. And on the mastery side, I think you said in here, it takes longer. And I remember doing an interview with George Leonard, he was one of the first people that wrote a book on mastery. And he's also the same guy that started s lawn with Michael Murphy. And I learned so much from George about mastery in his little book that is still a huge seller. But we're going to be talking to Joey, the inner matrix. And I'm going to let my listeners Joey know a little bit about you. He's the founder of inner matrix systems. It's a personal mastery training system for high achievers. Actually, it's for any achiever. For more than 20 years, IMS has delivered a proprietary methodology that rewires trains, and aligns the nervous system emotions and thought strategies to create real life results. And I think that's the secret formula here is you know, how to rewire and retrain. For most of my listeners, they know, I know, we've had Steven Kotler on here many, many times talking about how do you rewire this brain? How do you change the circumstances? And how do you get out of that, and Joy's a master at that. So he's been doing this, and he's had over 80,000 people through his course. I think you're all are going to really enjoy this interview, you can learn more about joey and his book in two places. The first place I'm going to direct you is there's a 60% off, actually, believe it or not, of the book right now. And I want to direct you to the inner matrix.com to go there. And you'll be able to get this book for 995. This is that's quite a bargain. I didn't count the pages. But you can say it's pretty thick. But it's had its big type. So it's an easy read. I love how you did that. There, you can learn more about the work of the art and science of personal mastery. You can learn more about Joey, but do go to there and then click that reserve your copy off and get 60% off. The other place that you can learn more about joey and the inner matrix is really at the inner matrix systems plural.com. And we'll put a link to that. That's where you can learn more about his courses and what he's doing and everything else. So Joey, let's start this off. You know, many people who write books like this. Life wasn't simple. They didn't have the most perfect family. They things were tough. And you state in the introduction that the family life was less than perfect. You saw pain and suffering. I was just reading a part in your book again about your dad, you always got stuck. And he said, finally your dad answered you, you asked him how many how much did he make running these businesses out of the basement. And he finally said between 60 and $70,000. And you realize that you've programmed your brain and your system, that that's all you were gonna make for a long time. And you saw this pain and suffering you said, and there was very little happiness, love and joy. If you tell us a little about yourself and your quest to find meaning and purpose and joy in your life. And really, the big thing here is the influence of Dr. Lu. I, this mentor had so much influence on you that really they changed your life. So go ahead and let our listeners know a little about you and Dr. Liu because that's where a lot you learned a lot of this. Sure, sure

Joey Klein
thing. Absolutely. So I mean, you're right on track there in terms of how my life got started out. Like I remember I was probably my second year of college or so where it really all came to a head and hit me pretty hard. And I fell into just this Oh A lot of partying and a lot of drugs on alcohol. You know, back then if you'd have met me, you probably, you know, would not have met me met me sober run ins with the police just really unhinged and you know, trying to cope with, you know, the different struggles that was my life etc. And really my whole journey started because one night, you know, after going a little bit too far, I really feel like I was probably close to dying. And I remember I had this awareness, that simple awareness, which was simply like, I think I'm here for something more. And if I keep living the way I'm living, I don't think I'll be alive in a year. And so, you know, I was really young, I was 19 years old, I moved out of my house when I was 17. It was on my own, and about 18 or so 19 years old. You know, I really said, you know, I just want to know happiness, you know, peace and fulfillment like what do I need to do to find that? How do I do what I wanted to do didn't have really good direction in my life. And I ended up meeting a mentor who is a bit of a spiritual mentor in the beginning. And that's really where, where my path got started. He actually was a guy in Boulder, Colorado, so I moved to Boulder was a living student for a year. And then it was a year after that, that I met Lou, among a couple other like key people who directed me and I found my answers like I really did find a sense of, of a bit of peace and fulfillment and happiness in my life. And, you know, it was totally done with all the partying and the crazy behaviors that I was up to. And I remember when I when I kind of got myself dialed in, people just started asking what I was doing organically, and asking for advice. And my teachers, Lou was one of those main mentors that said, you know, you really should, all these people are just asking you what you've done, and they're asking you for your advice, and you're sharing the information that we're giving you, like, you really need a career, you need to be able to take care of yourself. Because I was kind of couchsurfing, I was real happy. But I was couchsurfing, right? I was like a 20-year-old, you know, you know, bomb, I was like, like hanging out wherever I could. And I remember they just told me to start charging for kind of the advice that I was sharing and giving. And I remember I named a price, I just started coaching people. And they really told me like Lou was one of them that said, Hey, if you don't share the information I'm giving you I'm gonna stop mentoring you. And so it was kind of at their, their, you know, it wasn't even really a request, it was a demand, where they said, if you don't share this stuff, and you know, start, you know, kind of giving back, if you will, or pay it forward. We're not going to mentor you anymore. So I started sharing with people, what I was up to what I was doing, and you know, that led to today. And Lou was a prominent psychologist in LA that's really where I got my start, she convinced me to move out to LA ultimately. And the reason she did that was because I helped out her daughter. Her name is Kelly. And she had a brain injury and, you know, was a bit unstable and wasn't kind of able to do the things she wanted to do in life after a severe car accident. And she asked me like, Hey, do you think this like internal training stuff you do can help me? And I said, you know, I don't know. But I've seen it do some pretty cool stuff for people. So why don't we give it six months a year and see what happens. And then a year she was off all her medication, she was normal. She was you know, maintaining a job and all the things. And her mom took notice of that her mom was Lou, Dr. Liu, who became my mentor. And she started to send me some of her high profile clients. And now I was able to really make some differences there with the things that I had learned and was learning. And so she moved me out to LA and she said, Listen, I'll teach you kind of the artist psychology. If you teach me this inner training stuff you're doing and we'll make a trade. And she kind of took me under her wing. And she's really where I got my start because she started sending me all of her clients, I did a great job with them. And then it kind of took on a life of its own from there.

Greg Voisen
Well, you are martial arts champion as well. And you had mentioned something about trading the martial arts is that correct? Is that was what you were doing?

Joey Klein
Yeah, I had a I had a traditional, you know, to focus on traditional martial arts, and La again, like all these mentors kind of showed I had these primary mentors showed up in LA and, and one of my mentors said, you know, you really should get strong and you take better care of your body and, and I thought to myself, well, when was I you know, the most strong in my life and I remember back to my early teens, back then I did a style called Okinawan Kempo. And I remember I was really fit I was really strong and fairly athletic. And I kind of fell away from that. So I said, you know, I'm gonna get back to that. And I found a very traditional martial arts master Grandmaster Lee was his name. And he was in LA. And so I started studying with him privately, world renowned martial artist. And so that's where, you know, I kind of kind of kind of led that that's kind of what led my path into the martial arts there. And when I started studying with him and training with him privately, he said one day, you know, if I'm going to train you privately, I don't train very many people privately. You have to compete in the in these tournaments, you have to win. And I was like, all right, I just wanted to learn martial arts. I actually didn't like competing. I don't like competition. I didn't want to, you know, compete. I just loved the artist studying. And so it was like a tradeoff. I was like, well, I'll compete, as long as I get to train with this guy. And I was like, Well, if he thinks I'm good enough to do okay, I guess I guess I'll believe in that. And so really the World Championships and kind of my leaning into martial arts was, again, one of my mentors, saying, like, hey, I'll train you. But then you've got to, you know, you got to go out there and show that I trained you and do pretty good. So, you know, ultimately, it worked out and I won three consecutive, you know, world championships in a row. And then after that, I got clear, like, if I continue this, it's not going to be great for my body and my 5060. So I could have kind of took a took a change there.

Greg Voisen
Well, there is a discipline, though, associated with any martial arts, when you're doing it, that's so important. And it follows suit in the work that you talk to people about here as well, this inner work, the discipline that needs to take place as part of this transformation process, and you stay that radical evolution can be instantaneous, but that mastery takes time. That's the discipline I'm talking about. Mastery takes time. Can you distinguish the difference between the two, for our audience and comment on the journey to mastery, versus just this instantaneous, radical evolution that you might have? Yeah, of course.

Joey Klein
So for me, like, I think of transformation. And when I see people's lives transform, and I get to kind of see this, you know, on a regular basis, I just got done teaching a program in Kansas City, and, you know, like, like, you know, we had 100 people there a little over 100 people, and there was a number of people who their life just simply won't be the chain be the same as a result of, of like, engaging there. And when I look at transformation, it really is a paradigm shift. And we've all experienced it, at some point in time in our life, most of us probably just didn't, didn't drive it, right, we didn't intend it, if you will, it just sort of occurred in one direction or another. And so a transformation happens when our perspective of ourselves and reality changes. And it really is an instantaneous event, you know, just like I was sharing with you, you know, when I kind of, you know, wait a little bit too far, when, when I kind of first began this journey, you know, 20 plus years ago, and I realized in that moment, like, hey, if I continue living the way I am, I'm not going to be around any longer. And I'm here for something more. And in that moment, I just saw my reality completely differently than I did moments before. One moment, it was, this is fun, and I'm living my best life. But the reality was, I was just hurting myself and other people in extraordinary ways, right? People that loved me, people that cared about me, and, and, and myself. And as soon as that that paradigm shift happens, where you realize, oh, I'm actually doing x naught, y, and x is possible. For me, as opposed to as to why it's like all of a sudden, that moment, I was no longer ever going to be the same. And yet, it took a little bit of time for that to unfold. You know, the second example that I can have of like, like instant transformation in my own life that wasn't directed, was when I moved when I was a child. I remember moving from, you know, grade school into middle school, we moved from Albuquerque, New Mexico, my dad got a new job, we moved to Wichita, Kansas. And I remember, you know, loving school and getting good grades. And, you know, all of those things. And I remember sitting in the counselor's office at the new school that I was going to go to in Wichita, actually Andover, Kansas, and I was sitting there in the counselor's office. And I remember, like, it was yesterday, the counselor talking to my parents and going well, this is a harder school than then, you know, Joe is coming from, and we don't want to set him up for failure. And although you know, it's recommended that all these advanced classes be taken, we really should put them in just the normal classes. And then if he excels, we'll go ahead and bump them up. Because we don't want to set them up for failure. We really, you know, it's a much more advanced curriculum here. And we're not sure that he's going to thrive in these other classes. And for whatever reason, I remember like, in that moment, thinking to myself, this is going to be hard. And I remember like taking on this idea that I was dumb that I was stupid. And sure enough, like going into school, new place new reality. I remember thinking this is going to be hard. And sure enough, I struggled in school from then on, you know, forward,

Greg Voisen
reprogram the subconscious. Yeah, exactly. Right.

Joey Klein
It just happens to us all the time. We don't realize it's going down.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, remember an interview with that guy is just was recent, actually. It's interesting visit doctor teaches in university, Joey. And he said, you know, he always thought he was bad at math. But the department he was in they moved into an apartment and said, You're gonna be the math instructor. And he was like, me, the math instructor. How can I do that? And I love this story, because he became really good at math, and he enjoyed it. And he had this student come in after hours and she said, Doctor, whatever his name is, at this point, I can't remember. I'm horrible at math. I am just horrible at math and He says, Well, why'd you say that? And she says, because I've never really done well at math. And you could see she already preprogrammed herself. So he, she, he does the first test. He hands it to her. And she says, it's an A. And she said, Oh, my God, Dr. Jones, you know, there's no way I got an A, he said, Yeah, you did get an A, you, you. You aced it, you really did. She goes, I don't know, I don't know how that happened. So second test, she got a D. Third test, she got a D. And what she realized that she could be an average student, which was C, she had two Ds and an A. So they average the grade together. And she ended up getting a C and the course. But he would say to her, just like you said, why do you believe you're a bad student? You're not, you're a good student. Yet, she'd already preprogrammed that she was going to be a C student. And she ended up being a C student. So there you go. There's another example of how powerful the mind is, you know, like you just said, that's, it's a great example. Yeah, we

Joey Klein
just take it on. I remember, you know, and I struggled through school all the way through my second year of college. And I remember my dad, like he, he took this Dale Carnegie course. And he, he somehow got me in there for free. So I was, you know, 15 years old or something. And I'm in there with the CEOs and business people and just terrified out of my mind. Because I'm the only kid in there everybody else is very successful running companies in this kind of thing. And I remember at the end of the course, you know, the facilitator who was running for mayor he was running to for the, you know, to be the mayor of Wichita comes up to me with his wife. And he says to me, you know, I don't know what you're going to do. But I know, it's gonna be amazing. Because you're extremely smart, and you're so capable. And you're, you're just obviously special. And so I don't know what you're going to do, but you're going to be an outstanding success. And I want you to call me, and let me know what amazing things you do. And I remember that moment, because all of a sudden, I like took that on. And I was like, I'm not sure what I'm going to do. But it's going to be great, it's going to be amazing. And all of a sudden, that was a paradigm shift for me again, and all of a sudden, I was like, I was clear, I was going to do something, but I had no idea what it was that I was going to do, you know, like, like how great it would be or anything like that, but I assumed it to be true. And so like, like, transformation happens in a moment. But then when I look at well, what did what did it create? What did it take to do something significant? Like what did it take to succeed? You know, I had to study business, I had to, you know, study personal development I had, I had to study the sciences, and like it was throwing myself into the right things, you know, for two decades, that that created a high proficiency. Or same thing with martial arts, like I might have a natural aptitude for that. But in terms of, of, of mastery, or creating excellence, you know, as for ours, and in the dojo, you know, doing hard training six hours a week, year after year after year after year, that developed a high capacity and a high skill. And so although transformation can happen in an instant, where life really is one way, and then it's just never the same for us. And then it unfolds over time. If we really want to master something and achieve and know what's possible for us and realize our potential. We've got to lean in and do the right things over time for sure.

Greg Voisen
It's so true. And you know, that experience you had at 15 and Dale Carnegie, it brings me back to the days where I was in Carnegie. And I actually became a trainer. And the man who put me into Carnegie was a gentleman. He was my manager. When I was doing insurance sales. His name was Grant Benning. His daughter is Annette Bening. And he introduced me to the grandson who would had the San Diego location for Dale Carnegie. And he's been on the show. And I ended up going to New York as a result of it. And flying to the headquarters of Dale Carnegie, which is in New York. And the interesting thing was, is that I, I always remember the Dale Carnegie sales training. For some reason, you talk about spaced repetition, learning, they were miraculous at it, whatever they did. attention, interest, conviction, desire clothes, right? That's called the sales Berger, you know, and to this day, after all these years, if you really look at the process, the process is still the same, and it's crazy. How to Win Friends and Influence People. Dale Carnegie, another great course. And you know, you mentioned that the research and this comes from the research and the scientific data on how to step into a powerful life. That only small pieces have been translated into accessible language and made readily available for mainstream audiences. When you state that you have merge the modern science and the ancient mystical practices and have developed this inter matrix system. Can you give the audience an overview of what the inner matrix is and how it helps people to transform their lives because you're taking the ancient wisdoms, and you're taking this other scientific data, and you're putting it together. And that, to me, means me shows that there's a spiritual side. And then there's this data side that the stuff that's going on in here, how are our neurons wired? How are they firing? How are we looking at? We'll get it to an in a minute. But you talk about this, these deep patterns that people set up, right. And those patterns then kind of lead normally to failure. But I want you to speak about the inner matrix and how it works and how people can benefit.

Joey Klein
Sure. So for me, I define the inner matrix as our, essentially our unique set of emotions and thoughts, strategies, that that ultimately drive and determined every choice decision and action that we take. And so another way to say that is if we, if we look at a choice that we make something simple as like, Hey, what are we gonna eat your breakfast this morning? Right? Are we going to have, you know, fruit or eggs or, you know, coffee and a bagel? Like, like, at the core of that decision, emotion really drives those basic, simple decisions. And then the decisions that are that are obviously more life determining in terms of how we think about it, you know, who are we going to marry? Right? Are we gonna say, Yes, we're gonna say, No, who do we date, etc. Like, they determine those decisions as well. And a lot of times I have, you know, like, like, especially my clients that I work with CEOs of like big companies, fortune 100, companies, things like this, they always tell me, Joey, I'm a very rational person, I'm an objective, individual, you know, I make objective decisions. And when we stop to consider the nervous system in the brain, and how it, how it, how it forms, you know, that's just simply not the case. Some of us are more connected to emotions and the feelings that we have than others, and we're more, you know, we're more aware of how that's driving in us. And then, you know, some are, are not as aware. But if we really look at it, you know, when we were when we were young, a year old, two years old, our entire communication system was emotional, we felt we felt sad, we felt happy. Without joy, we felt peace, you know, through the mirror neurons in the brain, which are responsible for empathy, but we had no idea to call them joy, or happy or sad, or anger was just imposed on us, right, we just kind of experienced that which was in our environment from those who are around us. And then, you know, around five or six, we started to formulate language, which gave us the ability to think and so from a nervous system perspective, emotions were a primary communication system, you know, for the first face, you know, 567 years of life. And then we started communicating in language. So, so thoughts are, like, superimposed on top of emotion. And so in terms of just how we're wired as human beings, emotion drives the thinking, and then those thoughts reinforce emotion. And so when we think about decision making an actions that we take, we might, we might be aware of rational thought, I like this, right like that. But what's underneath the surface, often in the unconscious self, is emotion driving the show, if you will, if we know how to manage that emotional leverage that emotion, you know, we can get ourselves to take just about any action that we want. If we don't know how to manage or leverage that emotion, we may want to take different action, but we just can't quite get ourselves to do so. Right, like working out every day or changing some dietary habits and things of that nature. And so when I worked with my spiritual mentors, you know, I worked with, I studied in India with gurus and I, you know, had a Dallas meditation master and, you know, study with a rabbi. And I noticed like, all these true ancient wisdom traditions had these like breathing practices and focus practices. internal training, is how I thought of it, because that's how I thought about it for martial arts, like, Oh, you do this technique, and you get a result. And, and I had these great results, but I didn't understand like, exactly why they were happening. And it was actually my mentors that told me to go seek out how to make this available in white, like, like, encourage me to take it more to a mainstream audience. And, you know, I met a Harvard trained neurologist that I was introduced to, and he would give me these papers with all these medical terms, and I'm like, Dude, I don't understand any of this. Can you put it in layman's terms for me? And so what I started doing was I was like, yeah, here's the technique I do. Why is it that when, you know, we breathe this way, we feel more calm? And then he talked about, you know, the different regions of the brain, it would stimulate the prefrontal cortex responsible for peace and, you know, creating a sense of sense of joy and like, that's the region of the brain that that creates these kinds of experiences. And when you breathe this way, or you focus in this way, you know, it trains that region of the brain. And I was like, oh, okay, so this technique creates that result he's like, exactly, I was like, good so be my interpreter, right like helped me I understand this stuff that I really can't even read because it was beyond me with all the medical terms and stuff like this. But he understood, you know, really clearly what was what was going on. And so he helped me break that down in layman's terms. And so that was really the process of like, like really understanding, hey, why is it that this makes me feel better? Why is it that this produces that result, and I kind of went on a search, because I'm a wide person, you know, for me, it's not enough to just do something and get the result, I really want to understand it. And it was through that understanding that I kind of understood, oh, this could be a system, this could be a training process, just like you train anything else. And so and if the, you know, not to say that there's not extraordinary value, in our wisdom, traditions, and in ritual and in, in those things, like, like, I appreciate them so very much. And obviously, they've been around such a long time, there's so much value in that. But I found a lot of people will do things, if it's not tied necessarily to, you know, religion, so to speak, but it's just techniques that get results and can be explained in better their lives.

Greg Voisen
Well, I think that some people, you know, look, I've done a lot of interviews with people in the Eastern philosophies, Western mystery schools, as well, and everybody, including Steven Kotler, it's always about how do you hack flow? How do you hack something, and I think the traditionalists are not as interested in having someone hack it? Because you can get there quicker, doesn't, you know, they'll say, it doesn't always mean that it's better. You know, I know that to get to a flow state, whether it's induced through meditation, or to induce through your practices, or you're micro dosing LSD, or you're doing all kinds of things, allows you to get to altered states of consciousness. Now, whether or not this improves, what it does is it opens up the part of the psyche of the mind, which you realize, and allows you to enter into areas that you maybe haven't been willing to go and it helps you clear, much of what is blocking you, right. And there'll be a lot of people that tell you, you know, I've gone to South or gone, I've gone south and done ayahuasca, right. And I and I know many people have lots of people. And I had rom das on the show before he passed away. I thought it was very interesting. You know, if there's one guy in this world who's spent most of his time in meditation, he always said, the Eastern practices of meditation were the ways that he found the ability even because, you know, at Harvard, they said, no more LSD, dude, you're, you're gonna have to find a different way. You state for the most of us, because of the lack of education and awareness, than instead of being able to purposely create our reality, a random set of experiences or conditions, or our inner matrix, and as a result, we react to the environment in a series of specific ways. I agree. I think that's all absolutely 100% correct about the matrix, however, you want to look at the matrix? How can you help the listeners that are listening right now become more aware and proactive in creating the realities in their lives? Other than to allow it to kind of go on automatic pilot?

Joey Klein
Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, something that that I, that I started to notice, like, those events that I shared with you a little bit ago, when I, when I took on this new identity, if you will, one time, not for the better, right? I'm not, I'm stupid. And the other time, I'm going to do something great, right? When I took on these identities, like, well, what really drove that what happened there, and the combination, like the reality was, like, there was an intense emotion that I was experiencing at the time. And then I adopted an idea, right, an idea about myself and idea about the world, you know, a way of seeing reality that was different than what I had access to before. And, and then it lit up my nervous system, right, my body felt different, right? My, my action started to change as a result of that, which I took on. And so you know, what I've noticed and what I what I see is like, hey, if we can, you know, learn to notice when we're inside of intense emotion, and start to like, intentionally adopt the perception we want to take on or what different situations are going to mean to us, then we can essentially train ourselves we can wire ourselves inside of the experience we want to have and also direct the trajectory that that we want to go and the outcomes that we want to fulfill on and we can do that in two ways. Like number one, you know, life is going to happen and we're going to have an intensity of love and joy at times in our life. That happens upon us, and we fall in love or something like this. And then there's gonna be times when, you know, the unexpected happens, and it's painful. And if we can, you know, have a little bit of, of a formula for when those intensities of moments, you know, of life come, and instead of, you know, accidentally, I, you know, assume something as to what we're going to have it mean or what we decide, it's going to mean for our future, if we stop and ask the question, what do I want this to trend toward as my future? What do I want this to mean, for me, what's the experience I want to take forward, we can start to really make this an intentional process, if you will. On the other side, if we learn how to activate intense emotion, you know, for some of us, that's music that can do that. Some of us it's using the body, you know, some people, you know, breathe in a certain way, etc. But like if we understand how to activate intense emotion within ourselves, and then again, determine, you know, meaning tied to that emotion and the outcomes that we aspire to, or the aspects of life we want to change, we really can direct and drive our behavior in a very different way than people are accustomed to.

Greg Voisen
Well, look, we're living in a world right now, that is very uncertain. It's very volatile. There's a lot of things going on. And I have a feeling many people. around just a many people don't really know what they want. It's confusing, right? It's confusing, and it and let's face it, the times have never been as rapid as they are, and they're never going to get slower. Let's just face it, it is what it is. How would you help somebody who's stuck? And saying, Hey, Joey, I don't really even know what I want in life. Because you were there. At one point, you know, you were you were stuck. You were saying, hey, these things aren't good things aren't whatever, how did you get out of it? And start to actually make something positive happen in your life? Yeah.

Joey Klein
So I think, most important is, is that is that is that moment of decision, right? We've got to decide to make change a must for ourselves. Not a, it would be nice, or you know what, you know, it would it would be, you know, not necessarily just hopeful that things change, right? But get to a moment where we go, you know, regardless of where we are, right, we're in a lot of pain. And that pain goes, I have to make a change, right? Or are like, Hey, I'm just, I'm just tired of things just being okay. Right, we're just kind of going through the motions, I think step one is we have to get to a place where we're sincere with ourselves, and we go, you know, I have to make a change here. It's a must for me. And, and in my opinion, like, if we do nothing more than that, a series of opportunities that sort of follow that, that will almost guide us toward creating or making, you know, those changes happen. And I think the second piece to it is, number one is like determining we want to change is not necessarily, you know, wanting to make more money, or have a nicer house or move or, you know, meet another person, I think that's where we go to a lot of times, but I think a lot of people, you know, the reason they're looking for their path or their you know, seeking these things outside of themselves is really because they just want to feel better. At the end of the day, like the core reason we want change to occur is we're looking for first and foremost a new emotional experience. And I remember the first you know, sort of thing I drove to when I said, I have to change my life. I didn't drive I sort of instinctually didn't drive toward, I need to know what to do, I need to know who I'm going to be in terms of like a policeman or a fireman or a doctor something like this. I remember getting so clear. And I said, you know, I need to, I need to find happiness, I need to know how to create joy for myself, I need to understand what is fulfillment, before I can really name what it is that I want to do. And that's what's really important to me. And that's really what I went out seeking for right? Some people we go out, we look to make more money and all that's fine. But you know, I've trained so many people who are really wealthy. And you know, the reason they're calling me is because there's sadness, there's unworthiness there. And so I would start with what all human beings want, which is, hey, I must change. And what I'm going to do is I'm gonna look to create a sense of fulfillment or sense of happiness or sense of joy for myself. And I know it sounds funny to people when they first hear it. But the truth is, like once we have our basic needs met food, water and shelter, if we're not happy and we're not fulfilled, it's not because of our wealth. It's not because of the people in our life. It's not because of our job or because we don't have our purpose. It's because we're not managing our mental emotional self in a particular way. And that's what's keeping us from those fulfilled experiences. So the first step to transformation is how do I want to feel? And let's start asking ourselves what can I do to create that feeling? I think it was the Dalai Lama, I read a book that that he produced, he was talking about the studies that he, he funded I forget what college, a university that he worked with, or who was who was speaking to, but I remember the quote, and it was something to the effect of, you know, why is it that all these universities are studying depression? Right? Why don't you study happiness, and the art of happiness, essentially, and look at the formula that produces happiness, because what, and that's all from the depression anyway. And so let's do a study that really, you know, let's do a study, and let's really start to start looking at what is the brain doing? And what is it that people do to be happy? Like, let's do a happiness study as opposed to a depression study, right? And that made so much sense to me, like, let's focus on the experience you want to have and start paying attention to how do we create that?

Greg Voisen
Well, you know, it's interesting, because, as we've all know, homeostasis is a tough thing. And to kind of move beyond the body wants to just go to homeostasis, you know, it's like, okay, but to actually move beyond and achieve what you would like to achieve in your life, knowing what you want to achieve, you have to be willing to take some additional steps. And those steps sometimes are hard to initially determine what they are, you have four separate yet interrelated aspects that comprise what you call the inner matrix, the mental, emotional, physical, and the intuitive, or what you refer to as the higher self. I should know this one really well, I wrote a book on intuition called hacking and the gap, a journey from intuition to innovation and beyond, can you explain the elements of the higher self and the energy that you referred to as presence, and how this is responsible for our state of the deep sense of connection, because it's so true, that, you know, if you're, if you're going to reach this higher state of consciousness, and you calling this presence, that that is the state where I say, most creativity comes from most fulfillment comes from yet so many of us spend so little time there.

Joey Klein
So I think I think of the higher self in two ways, one, is a little bit more of a spiritual idea. When we think of, you know, when we hear like the word or idea of like Soul, or, you know, Atma, or, you know, there's these different terms for, you know, who we exist as, beyond the body, as pure consciousness or pure energy, you know, that which we existed, as before, maybe we're in a body, and perhaps that which we know ourselves as we were no longer in the body anymore, right? That that eternal self. So I think that's a component of higher self. And at that level, we're definitely connected to all things. The more practical idea of the higher self is, is Who am I, if I give myself permission to believe, in my fully realized potential, right? What's the emotion I'm capable of? What am I capable of achieving? What difference Am I able to make in the world? Likely, who could I evolve into from where I am now. And if I were to imagine, the best of myself fully realized, you know, I think of a person who's loving and kind and compassionate, and resilient and confident and, you know, unshakable in these qualities, and somebody who you know, is a, you know, caters to or supports the growth of humanity and sees you as making contribution and is capable of that at the highest levels. And if I think of the higher self, it's like, Hey, what is this image of ourselves? That, that if we imagined ourselves as realizing our full potential, if we kind of grew into that? Who would we be? And what are the types of things we might accomplish or do or serve, and then it gives us a mark, it gives me a focus, and I can go, oh, you know what, that's what I'm going to strive today to, to evolve into a little bit more. And then the next day a little bit more, and the next day a little bit more. And when I've done that, and I imagined what is the potential, like if we think of our higher self as what we could fulfill as our highest potential, and we start moving toward that and try to grow into that. It gives us a focus, it gives us a destination. And we're able to sort of move into that, that that reality of ourselves. And what's always fascinating to me is when I connect to that idea of myself, and I named what I want to do, it's usually centered around connecting with human beings serving people in the best way possible. How can I give back what difference can I make, you know, it's usually around some kind of contribution? And when I name it, I don't know how it's going to happen. But I commit to it and it always seems to bridge the gap. I always seem to go hey, you know I remember I said, Hey, I want to serve 1000 people, and I want to support them in bettering their life. And I had no idea how was that was going to occur. And I was kind of, you know, working with four people at the time. And next thing I knew there was 1000 people, right? And then I thought, well, if I could do 1000, can I do 10,000, and sure enough to bridge the gap from 1000, to 10,000. And I thought to myself, like, like, I had no idea how this is going to happen, I'm confident that will occur. And so that sense of connection or universal energy or, or source, if we want to call it that, that, you know, I have enough examples in my life where I go, you know, what, there's some intelligence that I can count on that if I can get out of my own way and believe in the in the reality of who I can become as being possible, what I can achieve as being possible. Somehow, it nudges me in that direction, and always puts the things together that are required to fulfill that outcome. And so for me, when I think of source or connection, or that Universal Consciousness driving us, you know, we can't necessarily, you know, taste it or touch it or see it. But if we look careful, there's a ton of evidence that it's there all the time. And we can align with it if we learn how

Greg Voisen
the most certainly we can align with it. And I think the key is to being in unconnected being connected to it all the time, I was trying to find a different word, but it's there all the time. And it's really realizing it is and calling upon the power that is within it, to guide us and direct us, you know, intuition. To me, it comes in many different ways. You know, you when you look at it from a standpoint, is it? Are you hearing a voice? Are you feeling something? Are you acting from a gut feeling? People say, Well, I have a gut feeling about intuition, because I did a lot of research on intuition. And it was really fascinating to me, the people that thought they were so linear. And in the end, when you interview them, you know, they're like, scientists or whatever. And you say, Well, you know, you're putting together software. And yeah, I follow this process. Well, in the end, how did you get to that? Well, you know, we came together as a team, but I believe there was a collective consciousness, oh, collective consciousness of people coming together to help solve a problem. Where did that come from? Well, I don't know. Right? So you know, you would you would kind of do these interviews, and it was really fascinating to me than the end. I'd say, Well, did you think you have intuition? Oh, yeah, I have intuition. I use intuition. So what is your definition of intuition, and you get all these different definitions of what it was. But the reality is, we know that it's their joy, you state that our ability to be aware and perceive our patterns. And this is what I was talking about these deep patterns is not natural or innate, and it must be trained. And I know when I got my degree in spiritual psychology, they used to say, hey, if a camera followed you all day long, would you like what you saw? When we played it back? The patterns that you've created in life that you see, you know, the other thing they used to say was, you don't have to believe everything you think? I love that one. Because, you know, we're thinking all the time. And then as you talk about, those beliefs start to become our reality. I mean, just look at the divide that social media has created in beliefs, you know, many of them misguided at this point. But the reality is, hey, people have taken him on his belief. I believe that, you know, it's my right to go march on the Capitol. That's what I should do insurrection. Can you speak about our patterns and where they come from, and how we can become aware and train new patterns that serve us? And the greater good? Not just us, but us and the greater good?

Joey Klein
Yeah, excellent. So if we look at why we do what we do today, a lot of it is all it's all conditioned to trade. Now, it's hard to see that when we're kind of going through our day to day life, you know, that our emotions were conditioned and trained, and that our thoughts and beliefs about ourselves in the world was conditioned and trained. And that that led to the actions that we take emotion, thought, and then and then nervous system action. But if we really if we learn to stop and sort of pay attention, and I think psychology does this pretty well in different ways, right? Where it's like, Hey, you feel this anger, and this and that's going on, let's talk about where that came from. And they tend to want to go to the past somewhere and go look at the family dynamics of what was happening here. And, you know, there's some there's some, you know, good modalities out there that can show us like, Oh, like this conditioned or trained, you know, this way of being and when you learn to sort of, you know, pay attention and you take the time to really notice, like, hey, how am I feeling and where did this come from? You can in order to see that, that you didn't make it up, right, it didn't just happen, you know, it came from somewhere, and then we adopted it as a reflex. And this is a really great thing. Because if we adopted our emotions and our thoughts and our behavior as reflexes, and that was a train process, well, then we can untrain. And we can retrain some new inner processes, and emotions and thoughts and actions that lead to the different results that we want to create. And so the more we start to pay attention, the more we're going to see how our inner reality truly is driving our actions and producing producing our results. I had my one of my early mentors, you know, said to me, Joey, are you aware, you know, what an angry person you are? And back then I was, you know, I was extremely angry, I was I was unhinged, right. And I remember thinking, I'm not angry, I'm, I'm totally fine, right? I couldn't, I literally couldn't see, you know, myself in different ways, even though I was getting in fights all the time. And, you know, I was getting arguments. And, you know, my behavior was such that I was extremely angry. But I would have told you, I was not an angry person. So I couldn't see myself. You know, we are the hardest people for ourselves to see. But once I was able to see, oh, you know, what, I'm a, I'm an angry person, and I'm doing these hurtful things when I'm angry. You know, it's not, it's not like my fault that I'm hurting these people, because I can't control my behavior and action. So many people think that the way they feel is their fault, it's not so much a fault, as it is, hey, let's pay attention to just what is happening here. What are we doing. And what I noticed is that when I learned to pay attention to just being angry, and step out of that, and, you know, learn to calm myself down and literally acts as a place of peace, all of a sudden, my behavior was radically different. It's like, it's a different intelligence. And all of a sudden, you go to a place of acceptance, you go to a place of peace, you go to a place of just naturally caring for other people. And you're not the same person in that space and that pattern of peace, if you will. And so how do we contribute to the betterment of other people in humanity and serve? It really is as simple as becoming a better version of ourselves, and Accessing Higher emotions such as joy, peace, compassion, etc. Because from those spaces, we're not going to hurt other people. And we're in it's a natural impulse to make contribution.

Greg Voisen
It is. And I think that one of the one of the things that has to happen is we, if we're going to give, we're going to make a contribution. No. And the contribution is going to be for the greater good of everybody, not just ourselves. And I think that's really important. Can you speak with us about some of the inner matrix system trainings, practices that are designed to help clients bring deep programs and patterns to a level of conscious awareness, one you mentioned is staying fully present in the moment, and allowing our thoughts and feelings to pass without judgment or attachment. I have a little thing right here that sits here all day long. And I'll show it to you. It's no secret. I also have a nail clock on my wall. Now, the now clock which I can't, I can show you, it has no hands on it, it just has a pendulum that goes back and forth with our home. And it just says now in the middle. This non attachment is one of the Buddhist Four Noble Truths that you've blended into some of these practices into the inner matrix or is it is what I'm saying. Because attachment is really a big thing. In Buddhism, you know, Buddha says, you know, there's suffering, and then there's into suffering. Well, the only way you're gonna get the end of suffering is when you change, and you realize you're the one that created your own suffering, you're 100% responsible for your own suffering. So speak with us, if you would, about how the inner matrix kind of works at that some of the practices that you use to help people have this realization like you did that you were in denial of what was going on, and how you help people reprogram? Yeah,

Joey Klein
yeah, I definitely think like, I agree with you 100%, around the everything happens now. Like, that's really the only place we exist. And an attachment like learning to be unattached is critical. And seeing ourselves is critical, too, and sometimes not so easy. And so when we look at, well, how do I see myself I find, you know, it's a combination of some things, because if we like, stop, and we, you know, try to meditate sometimes right and close our eyes and go, Well, what's there, it's like, it's like, nothing's there. Right? The mind goes quiet. And, you know, it's kind of like you're trying to focus on nothing, and it's hard to do sometimes, right? And so, you know, two effective ways to see ourselves is, is number one, you know, you know, ask the question, you know, how am I feeling like get in touch with the emotion that's there? And then when you notice the emotions that are there, like if you're interacting with a spouse, or you're, you know, overwhelmed with your job or your business, you know, ask why questions, right? Why am I overwhelmed? And then write the answer down. Why am I anxious? Write the answer down, then ask it again. Why am I anxious? And what I find is that when we ask questions of ourselves like this, it kind of pulls out where we actually are in a way we can see it, especially if we write it down. I'm a fan of writing things down, so that it's outside of myself, and I really can look at it more objective. And then the din then decides, do I want to detach from this? Do I want to unattached from this? You know, there's a lady in that showed up this last weekend. And, you know, she had a divorce, right? She recently broke up with her with her husband. And she had this list of things. And she said, Joey, but what if my anger is justified as an example, and she had these reasons why she was very justified in being angry. And I shared with her, I said, you know, of course, you're, you're justified in being angry, and there's nothing wrong with feeling angry, and you can choose to be angry. The question you got to ask yourself is, is it worth it to me to hold this for another day, another five days, another year, another five years, and then what that that anger, and the way we think when we're angry, is going to mean for the impact that will have on you and your health and stress and the people that you love and care about, and the meaningful times it might take away from those times, as you define yourself as this reality? And so yes, like, like, like, you know, do sometimes bad or wrong things happen to us? Absolutely. And so if we hold on to that anger, as an example, and we don't give ourselves to unattached, from that, or to let go of that, or accept that it's there, then then it's a driver in our life. But when we go, Hey, yes, I feel angry, yes, these thoughts are there. But I'm going to let go of the idea that this is the only way to perceive reality. Because if we hold on to the idea that this is the only way to perceive reality, well, then we're going to be angry. And that's our quote, unquote, truth as people say, sometimes, and then we're and then we're stuck, we don't have another option. But once we say, I choose no longer to be angry, I must change this. Now we can start to say, Hey, I choose to have compassion, I choose to be grateful that I'm not in this relationship anymore. That wasn't working. For me, it's time for me to go on to something better, you know, we can choose to take on a different way of being a new pattern, which will then you know, translate to new results and new outcomes in our life. So you know, it's paying attention to where we are. And then even if it doesn't seem that way, in the moment, to have the courage to go, it doesn't have to be this way, it could be a different way. And that gives us that ability to pull back a little bit, and then start to get clear about who do we want to be? And then redirect, well,

Greg Voisen
I think then, and when the outcomes are beneficial by going the new way, opening up. I remember one of the masters this was Byron, Katie, I don't know her or not. But he used to get people on stage. And they would just like your lady who's went through the divorce and said, I'm justified, these are the reasons and she goes, Is it true? And then she'd say, Is it really true? Is it really true? And when you start to ask that question around truth, you start to really realize, maybe it's not true, it's something you made up that it was pretty one sided, the divorce, or whatever, and you're allowed to let go. But I loved her questioning. And she had three simple questions. And she'd get people on stage in front of hundreds of people and answer these questions. And they began to realize, and you'd see it happen right in the middle of the audience. It was like, Is it true? Is it really true, is what's going on for you, so she was a master at it. Joy, your book is filled with valuable practices and wisdom to help one transform their life, and to manifest a life to create a life of love, peace and happiness and abundance. If you want to leave the listeners with three takeaways, and or practices that would help them in some way on their personal journeys. What advice would you give him?

Joey Klein
I'd say to start with, you know, just entertaining the idea that that every result in our life good, bad, or indifferent, in terms of how we look at it is created from the inside out. It didn't it didn't it wasn't an accident. It didn't just occur. It didn't just happen upon us, but we created it from the inside out. And so number two to start paying attention, well, what is happening inside me in relationship to what's happening outside of myself? What are the emotions that I feel with the thoughts that the mind is thinking? And then go on to a third step, which is, as opposed to it like we were just talking about or you are speaking so well, in terms of you know, about Byron Katie, is as opposed to, you know, you know, validating or rationalizing or justifying why our emotions and thoughts are true and real, rather ask a different question. So to ask the question, hey, it does this emotion in this thought, drive me toward the outcome that I want to experience in my life, the outcome I want to create in my life, and if it does, then lean into it, invest in it, hold on to it, and if it does it no matter how real it may seem, start to give yourself permission to evolve it and change it and adopt the thoughts and the emotions that that will produce the results in your life that you aspire to, and that you deserve to have at the end of the day. It's great

Greg Voisen
advice, Joey. And for my listeners, again, if you want to get this book, you're going to go to the inner matrix.com, you're going to see a big banner there. And it's basically gonna say, 60% off limited time only while supplies last, I would say, go get a copy of this book. I'm going to hold it up here, hang on. Yeah, in formal show in that direction, but the reality is, this is the book you want to get. I encourage you all to go get this. It's 995. And he pays the shipping. How good is that, I mean, there's no better way to get a book than to pay 995. And then he's going to ship it to your door. The other thing I would encourage you to do is to go to the inner matrix systems.com You're gonna see a video of Joey there, you'll see a video on the other one as well. But you're also going to find out more about the program, the things we've been talking about today, and how these would apply to your life, and how this can help you make transform, transformation. As I said earlier in in here, Joe has trained over 80,000 people and I think it speaks for themselves. You can actually see some of the testimonials. He said 30 701 on ones sessions with certified I am training is happening all the time because he's not the only trainer. And the programs are power of focus, power of intuition, power of vision, and power of emotion. Definitely go there. Watch the videos, learn more about joey Klein, his program, the inner matrix, joy, Namaste to you. Thank you for spending some time on the show with us and allowing my listeners to get some wisdom and insight regarding your book and the inner matrix system. appreciate having you on.

Joey Klein
It's been great. Thank you so much for having me here. And that's been fun.

Greg Voisen
Good.