Greg Voisen
Welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. This is Greg Voisen and the host of Inside Personal Growth. And we have Anna man joining us from New England area she said just a minute ago and she said the sky outside is beautiful is the sky behind her there with the Go Giver marriage book listed on it. And, Anna, Good day to you. How are you doing?

Ana Gabriel Mann
I'm good. Glad to be here. Thank you. Good. But

Greg Voisen
from the looks of the website, boy, you guys do a lot of podcasts. So I can see that you and John are very busy people. And you've got a book, which really, in today's world, with all the mash up of everything that's happening, I think I'm not certain what the divorce rate is anymore. But people need each other and they need to build strong relationships. And that's what this book is about is how to sustain, maintain and build loving relationships and couldn't be a more appropriate time than now. Right?

Ana Gabriel Mann
Absolutely. The pandemic is what drove us to write the book. We've wanted to write the book since 2005, since the original Go Giver came out. Or actually since the original Go Giver was written it was published in 2008. Right. But we've wanted to write this book since then, because we felt after, after that book was written that it kind of quantified what we have in our relationship and what we endeavor to teach.

Greg Voisen
So it is it is something we're going to go through this and we're going to talk about it with my listeners, but I'm going to tell them know a little bit about you. And it man is earned her degree in clinical psychology, before going on to serve as a celebrated educator, therapists, corporate trainer, speaker and coach, she currently coaches go give her marriage clients and leads go give her marriage coaches training program, which is a training program for people who want to learn how to use the techniques that they've developed in this. And you can go to go giver, marriage.com. That's the website for the book. But it's also very informational website, you're gonna find all kinds of things there. They have a list of their podcasts, if you want to learn more about John, the co-author. He's prolific author with over 30 books either authored or coauthored and his name. And the biggest one probably being with Bob Berg, in 2008, as Andy just said, which is the Go Giver book, which is around generosity, but marriage is around generosity. So there's definitely a correlation there. What compelled other than this pandemic, you and your husband to finally write a book together? After all the years of him writing. And in particular, were you kind of the impetus because of your background and therapy and what you've done before to actually say, hey, you know, John, we need to write this book, because there's a huge need for this.

Ana Gabriel Mann
We've actually collaborated in writing before, but not, you know, in published books. But, yes, my work as a therapist, the Go Giver, principle and philosophy. I'm a great believer that a therapist is only serving their clients if they're teaching and educating at the same time that they're working with them on the particular issues that are relevant to them. And I feel like a spirit of generosity and a marriage is the most important thing that the two of you can have and develop because a spirit of generosity and of giving that's without agenda that's not transactional, is really where the sweet spot of a marriage is, because it's giving with compassion, giving with willingness.

Greg Voisen
I love that generosity. I don't know if you know Nate clamp and Katie clamp, but they wrote a book called the 8080 marriage. And it's interesting how the generosity element gets incorporated into therapy into working with couples because it seems to get one sided one way or the other. Now, the first part of this book, The Go Giver, marriage is a parable about Tom and Tess, this married couple ended up with challenges and they have a child which is what do you call it? Disabled. I don't want to say disabled but the way you explain it as a special needs special needs. Ken and I'm sure you run into couples yourself all the time that are dealing with the wife or the husband and trying to do actually work on all the tasks that have to be done during the day that people have to do that are a challenge. Can you tell the listeners a little about the story and set the stage of what we're going to talk about, which are the five secrets of a lasting of lasting love and lasting relationships?

Ana Gabriel Mann
Well, in true parable fashion Tom and Tess have, they don't have a marriage that's crumbling, they just have a marriage that has signs and stress. Right. And, and that was intentional. Because we wanted people to see that sometimes the rumbling of a thunderstorm is often the distance but the storm is, in fact coming. And we also really wanted to be able to create a story where, you know, each person Tess and Tom, were having their own unique experience in one day of learning from others. What the secrets, the five secrets are really about what really makes a marriage tick. Why is generosity so important? And why is removing yourself from scorekeeping and from being transactional, so important. So the story kind of winds through that, and comes to a conclusion that is surprising. And it shifts the marriage and shifts the two of them in in a very profound way. And then the second half of the book is actually unpacks, the five secrets and says, Okay, this is what the story showed you. Now, here are the five secrets, and here's how they apply to your life. Here's why they're they were created, what they mean, psychologically, and how you can put it into action in your marriage.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, those secrets, we're gonna get to them listeners, but because they are valuable, and Anna said it would be tough to cover all five of them. So I'm going to pick a two or three, and we'll see how far we can get with those. You know, in the chapter, the tree, I found this one to be really interesting, the way that the question was posed, Tom's given us thought provoking question from Jeremiah and Jeremiah is kind of working in a company climate lab, try and climb the ladder. And, as in, you know, a good standard form in in writing a book, and especially a story. I always love Joseph Campbell, because this kind of follows the Joseph Campbell hero's journey, right? It's like, I go out, I need help I find the people to give me help. And in this case, Jeremiah was somebody to give them help. And he asked this question, what is the purpose of marriage? And I'm going to ask this to you. And in your estimation, what is the purpose of marriage?

Ana Gabriel Mann
Well, I would actually go with Jeremiah's answer, which is later in the book, which is the purpose of marriage is to give yourself to another and in the process to become your best self. Because when you truly engage in a relationship that's transformational, and that actually has real intimacy, you find that your desire to become a better person expands. And you not only desire to be a better person, for your spouse, but you desire to be a better person in the world. And so you, you know, and, and I guess the other side to it is that if your spouse is really engaged in that kind of closeness and intimacy, where you're both about building the other person, then when you're building the other person, you're encouraging them in every possible way to go after the very things that they care the, you know, the most about, you know, what is it you really want to do in the world, inside of the parable is a fairy tale. And that fairy tale is used by Jeremiah to illustrate some of the facts that he's bringing forward about marriage and about what makes a marriage tick. And there's a great moment between the princess and her husband, where she asked him, what is it that you really want to do? What is it that you want to do in the world? You know, why are you here? He says, Well, I've always wanted to build a cathedral. And you know, her eyes are wide, because here, they've been married for years. And she didn't know that about him. And, you know, there's another line in the story that says, you know, every person is an unexplored continent. And that's kind of the truth in a marriage. You know, there's always something new to find. If you are in fact looking.

Greg Voisen
Well, these are really important points. And in the real world, that's not always how it works. Sometimes in the real world, as you know, as a clinical psychologist, it's hard for the other person intellect out and let that person become themselves. Whether it's their ego, whether they need to be right, which would be the ego again, saying, Yes, I'm going to be right. I remember this, would you rather be right? Or would you rather be in love and I think that goes back to men are from Mars Women are from Venus book series. But Tess goes to this meeting with several women and receives advice from Nicole, one of the women at the meeting. Nicole says Love doesn't blind, it illuminates. And you've been speaking about that. If you're truly in love, you're obviously illuminating the other person. You're bringing light you're bringing love? What do you think that that tests needed to learn because she was having doubts about their marriage? And she was she went, like you said it was the thunder in the distance. But the rumbling was getting closer and closer, and she wasn't certain about love. That's an I thought was an important lesson. Even though it's not one of the five secrets, it was a great lesson. Would you comment on that?

Ana Gabriel Mann
Absolutely. You know, I think that when you say love doesn't blind, it illuminates, it's not just that you are illuminating the other person, it's that you actually know that person well enough to know, their soft underbelly, you kind of know, the ways in which your partner is vulnerable. And, you know, the parts of them that are undeveloped, you know, the parts of them that are still growing? And, you know, that's kind of the illumination is that you, you know them better than anyone else. And I think that that for tests, I think that she had resentment under the hood. Yeah. And that resentment was growing, because of her own sense of, of disempowerment and discontent. You know, here she was home dealing with a child with special needs, and a child with special needs is a huge big deal. In fact, about 95% of parents that have a child with special needs get divorced. Yeah. So it's, it's a, it's a big issue.

Greg Voisen
I know, I donated time to school locally here called the Terry school, there were 625 Down Syndrome and autistic kids and I would go in every morning. And it was, some of them were just so loving, so wonderful to be around. But the parents, when we would have caregivers kind of come to relieve them, right of just the pressures of having a severely autistic child or a Down Syndrome child. I speak from experience, because I spent almost a year and a half there, helping raise money for the charity, and I understand it, because I saw the kids every day. And for those of you who don't have a child like this, you'd have to walk a day in their shoes to really see what it's like to do that. So how to test in this case. Now. I We said we've picked two or three of these secrets. And then I'm gonna be the, I'm not gonna say devil's advocate, but I'm gonna look at it from the psychological side. Because in a marriage, there's so much going on. There's the relationship, meaning, understanding, there's the intimacy part, the sexual part, there's all of these other elements in a relationship. And your first five secrets are appreciate a state to look for specific things that your partner that you love about your partner. And when you notice them, take a moment to tell them we all want to be appreciated. Guaranteed. What is and we, we, you can say you appreciate somebody. But more important, you have to show them, you appreciate them. What is the difference? Because sometimes that doesn't get communicated very well in a marriage. It's like, oh, I appreciate you, honey. But then you don't take out the garbage. And so that animosity starts to build if you following what I'm saying here, your actions and your words are two different things. Are you living up to the words that you're speaking? Are you honoring them, and so on? Can you comment on this first one, because there's a lot built into appreciation? I don't think we that we I should speak for myself. I think in this world is fast as it moves. With the world that we're living in today, we forget this whole concept of the secret of appreciation.

Ana Gabriel Mann
I think it gets buried under piles of problems and stress from work and children with special needs and, and miscarriage that happened last month. And, you know, I mean, I just think there's so many things that when you get into the real life of a marriage, and of a couple, trying to move forward in the world appreciation, and every other secret of the five can get lost. I will separate secret number one and secret number two in terms of the ways that you act out appreciation, because when you're attending to somebody, which is the second secret, those are the ways that you are doing things like taking out the trash and picking their socks up off the floor, and bringing them a cup of tea at seven o'clock in the morning and putting it on the bedside table. You know, making their favorite banana bread just because you know, they had a rough day at work and they can use a treat, you know, just the ways that you attend to somebody. Attending is another way of appreciating someone, it's another way of being generous. But appreciation. The thing about appreciation is that in the explanation in the back appreciation really falls into that place of primary narcissism for a child, you know, it's the place where when you're a tiny little child, and your grandparent says do you look at you, you can read that book all by yourself, you know, you kind of puff up, you know, you're a little bigger, after Grandma says that to you. Because it hits that very place of needing special attention of needing the recognition that you are, in fact, unique, powerful and different. And so appreciation can't just be passing compliments. appreciation is not just I appreciate you, honey, or hey, you know, I just want you to know, you know, you're looking good today. You know, I mean, yes, those are casual ways of appreciating somebody. But a real appreciation is authentic, it's genuine. And it's specific. So when my client recently said to her husband right after Christmas, you know, when you took the kids Christmas shopping, and without my asking, took them out for the evening, took got them pizza, got all their shopping done, brought them home, carted them upstairs, wrapped it all, and they came bouncing down the stairs with all these secrets that Mama didn't know about, you know, they were so happy and so joyful, and you are so incredible when you're with them, that I just want you to know that when I watch you with our kids, I know that I pick the right father, and I know that you're just the right person to be in their lives, because you're constantly building them, you're constantly taking care of them in special ways that are unique to each one of them. And I just want you to know, it just it just blows my mind. And I so love that about you.

Greg Voisen
That is quite an appreciation statement, I have to admit. Yeah, I hope that the listeners picked up on that. And that would be the way to actually frame your appreciation statement to your partner, or in some manner like that. Because that is directed at one thing, which was very significant that the person can really be acknowledged for and I think the acknowledgement is there.

Ana Gabriel Mann
And to add something to Gregg appreciation is really gratitude wrapped up in a package that specific about the other person, the person that you're appreciating. And so when you're letting your partner know the ways that you hold them in gratitude, and the ways that they are, in fact unique and special to you. That's when your partner suddenly feels the way you would feel at four when your grandparents said, Wow, you can read that book all by yourself. You know, it's that moment when you go, Oh, I matter in this moment. You know, I you know, this is powerful.

Greg Voisen
Yeah. And I think you know, when you look at these things we do all day when we interact and I go back to, you can't start comparing the amount of time or the specific duties one person does. So there's a checklist it says, Oh, Anna did this. Greg did that. And it did this to bring did that. And at the end of the day, if it doesn't add up, you become there's animosity against the other person saying, Well, I did more than Anna. And so I should get a brownie point and why aren't you recognizing me for that? It can't work that way. You can't have a checklist where you're saying, I did this, you did that and it's not equal and oh, I make the money and I do this and I Do that and you sit here with the kids all day and whatever it is, because that's what creates the problems. Correct?

Ana Gabriel Mann
Not only correct, but also you just described perfectly. The 5050 marriage, which is a recipe for disaster. That's one of the lines in the book. But also you just described a transactional marriage, a scorekeeping marriage. I did this for you, what are you going to do for me? Right? And or I did the dishes three times this week, what have you done? You know, and that is, you know, the opposite of appreciation is criticism, Greg, and, you know, when people are transactional, they're looking, they're picking for criticism, right? They're like, Okay, I picked up your socks again, today. When are you going to stop doing this?

Greg Voisen
Yeah, but you know, as a psychologist, which you are, and I am as well. We still live in this human body in this limbic system, it wants to think that way. It we're, we're very prehistoric in many senses and the way in which we operate, and the only way to do that is to be aware of how you're operating. And that system needs to change if you're going to have a marriage, which is going to be like what you're talking here and this one, like I'm going to pick is the secret is allow, take responsibility for the energy you bring to the relationship, accept your partner for who they are, and the way they are, be theirs be their safe harbor, have a generous spirit and be kind, in your estimation that gets in the way, what gets in the way of allowing us to accept our partners for who they are. And why are we always trying to be right, and change the other person.

Ana Gabriel Mann
Because somewhere in our childhood, we feel terribly out of control. And we have never lost that feeling. Number one, you know, no one escapes childhood without wounds. And when you talk about the limbic system, you know, the way I see it is, there's the amygdala, which is constantly adapt in reaction. It's, you know, the adaptive part of you, the part of you that had to adapt to the dysfunctional behaviors of your parents or your family. And therefore, you developed habits, which were not functional. And now as an adult, you still have those not functional habit habits. And so what that creates is an amygdala that's constantly reacting, you know, you're the part of your brain that that reacts is firing, saying, wait a minute, I need to be right now. And therefore, I'm going to, I'm going to challenge this. And, yes, awareness is what really wakes it up. I mean, the secret of allow is the most powerful of the five secrets, in my opinion, simply because it is for better or for worse, and it's the worse, it's for sicker or poorer, in sickness and in health, and it's the sickness. And it's the for richer or poor, it's the poor. It is, it is the secret that basically says marriage is not fair, number one, number two, you're going to have to pick up the slack at times that your partner cannot, you know, when your partner's just had a miscarriage is not the time to say, Hey, let's go make love and try again. You know, I mean, she may be so crushed, that she isn't able to even talk about it, let alone take that next step of action. Right. So, you know, allow simply means really be aware of the energy you're bringing. And that takes awareness, you know, when you're trying to train a person in therapy, to come from their prefrontal cortex. That's, that's about awareness. They have to they have to be aware of what their reaction is, why their reaction is there and what it means for them, and so that they can start to go Oh, there I am, again, I'm reacting to that. And start to become a little bit more compassionate, first to themselves, and then to their partner, in terms of how they handle that allow is a complex secret because it really not only demands awareness, but it really demands compassion, and that's

Greg Voisen
and letting go and I think that what happens from an Eastern philosophy standpoint, if I put it in here is you know, you get married you go down the primrose lane, you have a viewpoint of what marriage is supposed to be. It doesn't quite turn out to be that way. But you have a strong attachment to what you've this what you think it should be, right Uh, you know, I'm, whatever that might be, I'm supposed to be waited on, I'm supposed to get my meals, I'm supposed to do this. I'm supposed to have sex every night, whatever. And it doesn't work out that way, right. And so that attachment to whatever that story is, you've told yourself that you believe, is really one of the strongest barriers because that's the one that's getting in the way of you having a true loving relationship, because that's the that's the problem you have. I have, let's, let's, I want to cover three of these. And the fifth secret is grow. And it says every day, identify what you need to be happy, I love this one, healthy and fulfilled, and then give yourself that and dare to dream, a bigger dream for yourself. How important? Would you say Anna? Self-love is in cultivating a healthy relationship with your partner, because not many people speak about self-love. And I think we have a tendency to like, beat ourselves up way too much. And it's so important to acknowledge ourselves, just like you're saying in this one. Dream big. Go for it. Acknowledge yourself. How important is this whole self-love concept in your estimation?

Ana Gabriel Mann
Well, the fifth secret is counterintuitive. The first four secrets are all about ways that you're generous with your partner. But the fifth secret is about being generous with yourself. Right. And I think when you're talking about compassion, it also applies to that secret. Number three, allow simply because in order to be compassionate with another, you have to have self-compassion first. And I think that the reason that grow is such a significant and important secret of the five is that too many marriages try to get their needs met by the marriage, first and foremost. And the truth is, the marriage cannot fulfill your needs, the only person that can create happiness for you, is you. And second, and I see this in marriages over and over again, across the land. People who they're not only trying to get their needs met by the marriage, but they're trying to get their needs met by their children, and by their grandchildren. And so when the children leave the nest, boom, you know, there's a huge crisis, because this person doesn't even know who they are, without the kids at home. They have no concept of a personal sense of self and development, because they've given themselves to the marriage to the children, to the family, to the faith, you know, to whatever it was that they believed was the important thing that spoke to their duty, if you will, versus their need. And I think that when you do that you divorce yourself from the self from your large s self, and you lose yourself, in essence. And that is a great tragedy. And the other reason why growing is so important. It's not just personal growth and personal development, which is the premise that we're talking about here. Because personal development and personal growth is also about uncovering and knowing yourself fully. And by that I mean, whether you spend time in therapy, or whether you have a support group, or whether you engage in some extreme sport that kind of pushes you in a way. Understanding the trauma, the history, or whatever it is that you bring to the table is a part of how you grow personally. Because in order to be fully compassionate with your partner, you would have to understand why your amygdala is over firing, why you're reacting to such small things. Are you going to really go to the mattress over a pair of socks on the bedroom floor? No, I mean, what battles are you going to choose? And so again, compassion starts at home, if you can't develop, you know, I'm a great believer in meditation, because I think meditation really, really brings you home to a more compassionate sense of self.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, it centered yourself obviously, in any somatic breathing techniques that one might use or any of the other alternative things, including just a walk in the park or walk on the beach. Yes, that's you can do to contemplate your situation and put you in a different environment. You know, yes. So if something came up for me while you were talking was, you know, in this compassion for self, and we deny ourselves permission to be as compassionate with ourselves. What would you advise the listeners about opening up the core or to get to that, and the denial that they that they want to give themselves. It's almost like, I remember having April Rennie on here who wrote the seven. What was it, it was called Thrive. But it was it was all about this constant change and what we're dealing with. And she says we're running from something to something or running away from something towards something. Not happy with what we have here. Because we think what we have, there will be better, right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So what do you think that in a marriage, people run from? And, and, and then what are they running to, but if they made up to run to,

Ana Gabriel Mann
I think that when people fall in love, the very act of that blissful, you know, riding on a high falling in love. That is the definition of the act of running from themselves. Because when you fall in love, and you're in that blissful, wow, this person is perfect. And I've never, never been in love. You know, I've never experienced this kind of feeling. People want to ride off on that like, like for women, the white horse and the prince, you know, they want to ride off on that feeling. And they convinced themselves. And this is pure denial in action, they convinced themselves that this is the person, their soulmate, and that they are going to feel this way for the rest of their lives because they're choosing this person. So I think that when you combine all of that, that is the running from the self, because the truth is, your self is not in a state of bliss, 24/7, nor will it continue to be even with this person. Number two, your self has been pushing down and denying any traumas or dark experiences that have happened to you in an effort to overcome and to function and to feel like you could move forward. But all of those experiences, you can't, you can't just shut them down. People are trying to run toward a sense of bliss, or completion, without having actually taken the steps to uncover the things that are incomplete and to heal them. Right, you know,

Greg Voisen
or to find a way to coexist with them. Even hear them hear them. Yeah.

Ana Gabriel Mann
And that was what grows about if there's a central premise to grow in my book, it is that grow is about your own self-healing your own inner journey to knowing yourself, and knowing your own mind about things. And also so that you're not pulled down the road by your friends who might have an agenda that has nothing to do with your needs. And really just seeking the kind of growth that's personal for you, because it might not be some fast paced career. And believe me, I have tons of clients with men who are hugely successful in their personal career, but their personal lives are in shambles.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, and I know, you know, you know this, but as we've grown up from little babies, to young adolescents, to adolescents to moving away from our house and going to college, and you look at where did this come from? Where did this belief about this come from? And oh, I had an alcoholic father or I, you know, my histogram looks pretty dotted. If I went and looked at my, my histogram and looked at all of the various characters in the, in the chain of my lineage, right. And immediately, you know, in my case, a little Jewish mother and a Christian father and the beliefs that you carry on and the things that you've got, it's, it's quite interesting to explore them, it's one thing to explore them become aware that that's where it comes from. And the next is to be able to transform out of them in some way through counseling or courses or books you read, or however you're getting your information. And yours would be one that go give her marriage, this is a perfect opportunity for my listeners to go pick up a copy of the book. And really look at these five secrets. And once you start digging down into the secret, you're gonna find out there's more there. Now. The book is filled with practical advice for building a loving relationship, or at least it identifies five secrets that will help you do that. What are three takeaways from the Go Giver? Marriage that you want our listeners, and you'd want to share with our listeners to improve their marriage. And in this case, it's marriage. But I'm going to say, you know, if you look at these secrets, it's any relationship. It's any relationship. You know, if you thought about this, even from a work relationship, it would work.

Ana Gabriel Mann
It not only applies to work relationships, it applies to your siblings, it profoundly applies to your children. Right, and it applies to your marriage. The takeaways for me are you know, it's, it's, it's really easy to I mean, this is a what I would call an a neurobiological model. And that is another way of saying it's a cognitive behavioral model. And the reason is that I am a great believer that what you think is what will be. And so you can think about your marriage in negative terms, and you can fall into criticism and contempt and control and all the dysfunctional behaviors, that will have a negative impact on your marriage. But the way to shift a negative behavior is by replacing it with a positive behavior. It does take work, but let me let me put it this way. You know, you could spend $350 an hour to go to therapy, you know, maybe you might find therapy for less than that. But you can spend money and go to therapy, or you can also spend the time to you know, just like if you were a musician, you know, in order to be a first chair cellist you have to play cello a lot of hours. In order to be great at a marriage, you have to remember that, that love is not a static feeling. It's not that blissful feeling that you had when you first fell in love. Love is a practice and a practice, whether it's a meditation, practice, a prayer practice, musical practice a, you know, athletic practice, if you're going to be a great marathoner, you got to run a lot, if you're going to be a cellist, you got to play a lot. It's the same. And so the secrets actually take two or three minutes a day each. That's it. So if you're taking five secrets, and they each take three minutes a day, you're going to take 15 minutes of your day, to be putting energy that cognitively is moving the marriage toward a more positive, stronger place, is actually reinforcing the very parts of your partner that need reinforcing. And for yourself, if your partner is practicing these five secrets for you, your self-esteem, your sense of belonging, your sense of, of, of feeling cared for and taken care of, all of these things will grow. Because your partner is actually taking the time to attend to you in ways that are authentic for you, to appreciate you in ways that show her gratitude for you. And to actually believe in you in moments when you don't believe in yourself. You know, it's like there's a level of compassion in all five of the secrets that when they are really practiced with integrity and with care, the marriage changes. I mean, it's really profound. And what happens is criticism falls away. Contempt falls away scorekeeping falls away, it starts to shift. And that's what we're trying to say is that this is a cognitive behavioral, neurobiological view of how do you shift in marriage, you shift it yourself through your behavior?

Greg Voisen
Well, you know, marriage counseling is for both, both the husband and the wife. A lot of times someone else say no, I'm not going to marriage counseling, we don't need it. But the other person goes to marriage counseling. And if they learn some of these techniques, and they take it back, that are in this book, The Go Giver marriage. Usually what happens is the other person doesn't understand what happened to you. It's like, oh, my gosh, what happened to this person had the nicest, kindest person that I ever met. And I think when you're in this together, it amplifies the actual respect that you have for one another. I think that's a word I would use here to be respect. And that's the important thing, but if you are in a marriage, and I'm saying for anybody out there, where the other person is denying this, and you are going to go, what I think would happen is if you started practicing these secrets on your partner, your partner will probably wonder where the heck you went. And ultimately, they start to come along as well. And I think you'll find that you'll have a lot more happiness in your marriage. Any comment on that, and then I'm gonna give the listeners a link to your website.

Ana Gabriel Mann
I would agree with you completely, because I've had numerous clients that practice the secrets all by themselves. And one of them actually, you know, after appreciating her husband, you know, really, and she called herself the hands on her hips, girl. She said, I was the person who was criticizing him at every turn. And when she stopped criticizing him and started appreciating him, one day, he said to her, I love so much what you just said, but what have you done with my wife? Yeah, exactly. And she was like, she started laughing. And she said, they broke out laughing. She said, he started tickling her on the couch. And then but in the middle of it all, she said he welled up with tears and said, I love you, baby. And she said, she was just struck. She was like, No, you don't understand my husband doesn't like tickle me, and then tell me he loves me with tears in his eyes. You know, I mean, it was, it was a really sweet story. But she had been practicing for three or four weeks, and really giving it effort, like putting herself into all the secrets she was, she was spoiling him with attending to him in different ways. And you're she was doing a bunch of really sweet things. And he was just Charmed, it woke them up. And I've had numbers of clients were intimacy that was on hold. I mean, their marriage had a sort of free zone going, freeze, and in the, you know, not free freeze. And the intimacy was backing down, if at all, and it warmed up, and they got back in the sack together. And they started laughing in bed. I mean, it was just like good things were happening, because one person was practicing. But in all cases, when somebody wakes up and realizes the marriage feels so much better, what are you doing, they usually read the book. And when because the other spouse says, Well, I read this book, and this is how it changed. And that's when the magic really happens when both partners read the book. It's really powerful. But I will say to your listeners, this, do not try to make your spouse read the book, read it first yourself and start practicing. And then if they start saying, Hey, what's going on, you're being so nice to me. Then you can say, well, you know, this book is really changed my view. And I don't know, I know, you don't have a lot of time in your day. But this book is golden.

Greg Voisen
invigorate them with kindness, let's be kind, you know, I'm gonna let my listeners know, it's go giver, marriage.com. That's the website. You can order the book through there. And you can also get some free gifts. I don't quite know what the free gifts are, but they're there. And I would say if you want to order it, it's very simple. Plus, you can also see what other people are saying about the book. There's lots of accolades there. People that you'll recognize, and it's been a pleasure having your own side, personal growth, taking a few minutes to speak about the book, speak about the parable, speak about these five secrets. We didn't cover them all. But go get the book, start reading it, and then treat your partner with that respect, that you would like to be treated with yourself and see what happens. I think you'll find it will be an amazing, it'll be an amazing thing for you. Thanks so much for being on. I really appreciate you ppreciate John, sorry, he couldn't be here, but we got what we needed. Thank you. Namaste to you. Have a wonderful day.

Ana Gabriel Mann
You too. Thank you.