Greg Voisen
Welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. This is Greg Voisen, the host of Inside Personal Growth. And we have Steven Campbell joining us, and he's going to be speaking about Making Your Mind Magnificent. Steven, Good day to you. How are you doing today?

Steven Campbell
I'm good. How are you? Through all these craziness

Greg Voisen
Yeah. All this craziness. But in spite of it all, we're still making it. We're still here. And the reality is, it's just going to keep getting better. Yeah, you know. So that's the way we got a look at it. And your, your book actually helps people make it better. Because we're going to be talking about the subconscious mind. And in that would be programming ourselves for fear. And I think if you're in the mood around COVID, or whatever, and you're fearful and fearful, Stephens going to give you some ideas that can help you reprogram this mind to not be so afraid. Yeah, I think that's one of these things. And I want to tell him a little bit about you. Steve Campbell is an author, speaker, mentor, individual organizations worldwide, individual and organizations worldwide. His book, making your mind magnificent provides not only a simple, yet comprehensive understanding of how your mind works, it also offers straightforward and easy to understand principles that you can immediately apply, help you change the way you think. He's got a Bachelor’s of Science degree in zoology, and we'll talk about how that works. From San Diego State University, my alma mater as well in 1970. Okay, worked 18 years and administrator of various California hospitals. And then after acquiring his Masters of Science degree in Information Systems, from the University of San Francisco, he went on to pursue his greatest love teaching. And he's been a college professor and Education Dean in Northern California for over 20 years. You can also find out more about Stephen at www STVN. Ca, MP B E ll calm, we'll have a blog entry in there as well. Well, Stephen, that's just a little bit about you. Um, how did you come about writing this book? Why did you write it? I know you're a preventive professor at universities. And you kind of had a I don't want to call it calling to do this. But explain to our listeners how you came about writing this book and why you believe it's so important for our listeners.

Steven Campbell
Well, actually, I began back in when I was a junior in college, I was studying to be a physician and a young man on drugs, unfortunately, ran into my VW with his old VBA in order to kill himself. And the friend that I was driving home was killed instantly. And I was in the hospital off and on for a year. And there was appointed with the had to put me into a spike of body cast, which is a cast that goes from your toes up to your chest. And I'm a Christian, and that was too much for me. So they put me in the cast. They said you'll be in this for another four months and already been in the hospital for three months. And I walked away. And I said I can't I said to myself, I cannot do this. That's when I began really crying and weeping and not understanding the whole thing. As I lay there in the bed for many, many hours. I realized that you know what, I'm not completely helpless. I can't make my legs grow back. I can't put my face back together. I can't do any of that. But I can replace what I'm thinking. I can replace some messages I'm giving myself and so I decided when I was there in the bed looking up on the ceiling. That's all you can do with a spike of it cast that I'm going to lock on to possibly there being something wonderful coming out of all this. That's what I'm going to lock on to. And years later when I began studying cognitive psychology, the work of Dr. Albert Ellis and Ramachandran and homesteader homesteaders. I realized that what I was saying not only came from the Bible, but it came from psychology itself. And the principles that I've been studying over the years I used for my students. I found myself teaching a course called career transitions in a particular college, which helps students take tests and take notes, etc. But I began sharing with them what the brain does for us when we're learning new things. And here's some principles that I that I taught. Number one When we talk to ourselves, our brain is believing everything we tell it. Without question. That's scary. But that's wonderful. The scary part is that unfortunately, most of what we say to ourselves is negative stuff. That comes from the work of Dr. Shad Helmstetter robot, you say when you talk to yourself. So when we do something done, we say that was either I'm so dumb for doing that the brain says, Oh, okay. Yeah, you're right you are. And the scary part about that. And this is called neuro trance. Neuroplasticity is that when you lock onto new messages, like I was really dumb for doing that the brain not only believes it, it begins rewiring itself. So those new messages become a part of who you are. Yeah, that's the scary part.

Greg Voisen
Those dendrites fire

Steven Campbell
that's right in the fire away,

Greg Voisen
And you basically create a pattern, a pattern, a hobby. My first question here is, you need an introduction, you state that your brain accepts what you're telling it, which is what exactly you said. And it's called self talk. Now, I haven't labeled it negative self talk yet. So what does research tell us about self talk? And how would you recommend to the people listening to reprogram that negative self talk? Now It'd be one thing to have a mantra, or an affirmation, or to reprogram it that I always say is, is the brain believing that? Are you believing it? Or are you just creating a statement? Or is there another way that's a lot more efficient, Stephen, to actually know that the brain is going to believe it, and achieve it.

Steven Campbell
Here's some wonderful information that came out from a book called fastens in the brain by Dr. VS Ramachandran out of UC San Diego. It turns out that our brain never asked the question, is it true or not? All the brain cares about is what we tell it never says is true or not, the brain says okay, and it gives us a couple examples, faster from the phantom limbs that have been amputated. And a patient will go to a doctor's office to say got to help me I can do a thing with my arm. And the doctor may say, well, that couldn't be because I cut off at arm six months ago. And the patient may say, Well, you didn't tell my brain that my brain still thinks it's there. And it gives some amazing stories of, of, of how our brain believes what we tell it, the person that we think of that study that the most is Oliver Sacks. So the brain doesn't care whether what you're saying is true or not. So let me give you an example to make this real. For the first 42 years of my life, I said to myself, I'm really stupid, especially in math, I can't do numbers. So when I saw numbers, I would freak out. But then in the 70s, I began discovering computers. And I began tinkering around with computers on my own. And I discovered that computers, for me anyway are really easy to understand. So I went back to college and got a graduate degree in computer science. And I began teaching computer courses. And one day, the Dean Cain, my office from this one university and said, one of our math professors just quit. So you our new math professor. I said, Wait a minute, I can't do math. He said, You want a job? Learn. There's the book next semester. Well, I needed a job. So I went to the library picked up all the books that couldn't brain based learning. And as you can see, over here, there's this is my library pack with books about psychology. And I base my course my math courses on how the brain learns, the students began saying, You are such a wonderful math teacher. And they begin saying that over and over and over and what I did was Greg, I began replacing what I've been saying to myself, with these new messages from the students. Notice I didn't say change. When I talk about psychology, I never use the word change. Here's the reason the brain hates change. The brain doesn't want you to change. The brains job is to keep you safe. The brains job is to keep your risk free. So when you talk about trying to change myself, the brain fight you tooth and nail so what we do is we say, I'm not going to change the messages, I'm going to replace them With new messages. So I began giving new messages to myself. Like, I'm really smart with math, I can really do this is really fun. And lo and behold, it just so happens that I am really smart math. And I went back and ended up writing two college textbooks on computer science and math.

Greg Voisen
Why does the brain Stephen, why is the brain so resistant to change?

Steven Campbell
Because his job is to keep you safe. His job is to keep your risk free. Its primary job as many jobs. And so when you talk about changing, even though the change might be good. The brain says, oh, let's not do that. That makes me really nervous. Let me give you another example that illustrates this.

Greg Voisen
Now in the in the parts of the brain, the amygdala, yeah, about the reticular activating system. We know that we know the frontal cortex, where is this resistance in the brain coming from is coming in?

Steven Campbell
I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I just finished? That's Sorry. Go ahead.

Greg Voisen
No, where is it coming from

Steven Campbell
is coming from the amygdala. amygdala, which is very, very deep in your brain, its job, it's got sort of the fight or flight mentality. Either something comes in and either accepts it, or fights it or flies away. And I put on a third one, it also freezes up. So the brain says, this is new, this may not work. I'm I want to keep you safe. So let's not do this. Let's, let's not change. Let's go back to the old ways. Let me give you an illustration of this. I end up teaching math at USF. And one of my students came my office out the first day of class and she sat down, she was very shy. And she said, Mr. Campbell, I'm so glad you're my professor, because I am a C student in math. How do you know Sue? She said I had never got above the Sienna math test. So I am a C student. I said, Well, I used to be that way. So let's work together. So I work with her and she got an A in the first mentor. And I'll never forget this, Greg. I gave her the test. And she absolutely freaked out. She went Oh. And then she said, Oh, Mr. Campbell. This is a mistake. What do you mean, Sue? She said, I have never gotten above the CMF test, you must have made a mistake when you were grading this. I said no, Sue, I graded this myself. This is an A. So then she looked at it longer. And this is amazing, a big smile crossover face. And she said Do you know what this means? And I said, Of course I do. Super utami. This means Mr. Campbell that when I flunked the next test, I can still maintain my see.

Greg Voisen
It's that strong.

Steven Campbell
And I said, Sue, just get a on every test. She said, Oh, I can't. Why? What was her answer, Greg? I'm a C student. Right? That's exactly what Yeah, and that's exactly what happened. She flunked the next test, she got a CME course.

Greg Voisen
So, you know, that's an interesting story. And, and I, I can understand that, because the programming is that strong. Now, you know, I've interviewed a lot of people on this show. And Steven Kotler is one of them. And the brain science studies are pretty extensive around people wanting to get into flow. This is off the wall kind of question for you when something goes, but we have people that are micro dosing little bits of LSD to get beyond it, or they're pushing the limits with certain things to actually get the brain to accept, how do I get there? You know, when it comes to learning, we've seen certain things lately that have accelerated the ability to learn by what are well, I had a gentleman on here that was I'm trying to remember, that wasn't that long ago, it was probably six, eight months ago on learning. What I'm going to ask you this, what would you do to help individuals listening, unlike Sue, not only accelerate their learning, but then accept the fact that they are smart.

Steven Campbell
Okay. Let's talk about our self-images. If when you have a good understanding yourself images, this will really help your listeners. So let's talk a little bit about our self-images. Notice I didn't say self-image, right? There's nothing that self-images, there's many of them, we have a self-image for every single thing that we do. So I have a self-image for how I see myself as a teacher, as a grandfather, as a father, etc. Now, what I want to share with your listeners, and this really helped them is to realize that those self-images are learned. You were not born with that. Now, Greg, you and I were born with certain natural dispositions, okay? I was born a natural teacher. When I was a kid, I used to put rocks in my backyard, pretended I was teaching them. Okay, as a weird kid. Does that mean I didn't have to learn how to teach? Of course not. I had to spend years learning how to teach, okay. But it was a natural joy to me to teach. I don't know you well enough, Greg. But there are areas of your life that you're just naturally good at. It just, it's something that you naturally do. And you love doing those, those yourself. But our self-images in general, are learned. Now, here's what I want to share with your listeners. How are they learned? Okay, and this is what they might want to write downs are self-images come from our self talk. Let me say that another way, our self-images come from what we say to ourselves, about ourselves. So going back to sue, when she said, I'm a C student, even though the A was there. The brain said, yes, you're right. Absolutely. And she kept saying that to herself, and she didn't do well on the course. Okay. That's the way our brain works. Our brain locks on to what we say to ourselves, about ourselves. So my being stupid in math, I was only that way, because that's what I said to myself. Okay. And there's so many other areas of our life in which we can replace the crap that we're saying to ourselves with new stuff. And we keep locking on to it. And the brain eventually rewires itself. So those new messages become a part of who we are. It's like, when I was a little boy, my dad taught me how to ride a bicycle. And he took me out to this road, it took the train wheels off, he said, nasty, before we give you a show. You see that rock on the road? About 50 feet? Yes, Daddy, don't run into that bar. And you already know what happened, right? You got on the bike locked onto the rock, ran right into it. That's the way our brain works. Right. So for the last half of my life, from 40 to 74, I began logging on to different messages either than what I've been saying to myself about myself. So here's what I want to share with your your listeners, which is so exciting. Our brain this is only to us. Our brain listens only two what we say to ourself about ourselves. Well, Steve, and I get this asked all the time, what about what other people say to us? What about that, but others say to us, do not become a part of us. Until we believe.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, and you know, there, what you're saying is so true. And I remember reading this in the book about the self-images and you, you have many of them. But the reprogramming of the self-image through the positive self talk, let's say in this case, is an element that anybody who's studying personal growth, self-improvement, self-development once and you pointed out something and restore, which I thought shows the strength of the mind. In other words, the memory, how strong the memory is, and you talked about this class, really union, and you had this good friend, and you guys went to this reunion, and he's all the way across the bleachers on the other side. You hadn't seen this guy in 40 years, both of you had changed. You had no hair, he had no air, you claim that you both gained 40 pounds. Speak with us about the story and the brain pattern detecting device. Because if that's the case, which it is, we run into an old person, you know, you remember their name, or maybe you don't, but you know that you're there. And you call it this PFI process. I think the listeners would really like to know about it because it can operate positive But if you lose that memory, you literally are losing a part of yourself.

Steven Campbell
Yeah, yeah. So let me share with you how much our brain can learn and grow and change. And what I do is I illustrate my daughter, when our daughter was three years old, she was raised in Rohnert, park, a little enclave about 60 miles north of San Francisco. So she knew nothing about the city. So I'm going to have your listeners imagine a brain. Okay, so just sort of put in your mind of brain. That's a picture Sarah's brain when she was three years old. And there's nothing there. Because she knew nothing about a city, Mary, my wife said, We got to hear about the city. So I said, Okay, I read her a book. Now have your listeners draw a little tiny circle in the silhouette of that brain. And in that circle, put the word book that illustrates was called a neural cluster. And little teeny cluster of neurons at the brain forms during the day when you're learning new stuff. Now draw another circle and put in book there, I read your another book, then we showed her some people and some cars and some lights. So you have this little brain, this brain filled with circles, those circles illustrate neural clusters that you are that your brain is forming during the day, when you're learning new stuff, is constantly rewiring itself. And that's one of the things that does is right into your prefrontal cortex here is creating those clusters. Now. Here's where it gets exciting. When we go to sleep at night, our brain says, Okay, wonderful, leave me alone. Because now what I need to do is make sense out of all the stuff that you gave me during the day. And I didn't have time to give to do that during the day. Because you're giving me too much information, sites, feelings, all of these things. So now that you're asleep, I can take all the things that you recorded up here, and look for similarities, look for relationships, and then I can connect them. So that's what the brain does over the next hours. It takes all of those clusters and connects them and creates patterns. Now, how many patterns can the brain carry? The patterns are based on the connections? The connections are based on number of brain cells, you have? Neurons, this is white tissue, around 83 billion. Okay, that's the latest I've seen, okay? Each of those 83 billion cells are connected to an average of 10,000 other cells. Now, Greg, that's not a multiple that's a power. So the number of connections that our brain can carry this is the human brain, which then creates those patterns is 83 billion to the power of 10,000. Mm hmm. That's 83 billion times 83,000,010,000 times. It's a number of them. Yeah, it's a number that we can't even fathom. Dr. Ramachandran says on page eight of his book, The neuro mathematicians have calculated that the number of patterns which the human brain can carry is, as he says, exceeds the number of elementary particles in the universe. He's basically saying there's really no limit, but there is a limit and this is what I want to share with you. What

Greg Voisen
is the what is the concept around? You know, I was speaking with an author just the other day and you know, rightfully not in the space where he's teaching the magnificent mind but done a lot of research. Any cited a statistic, which I didn't know, so there's 11 billion sensories coming in every second. Now, I don't know that seems like a lot.

Steven Campbell
But as a surprised me, I haven't seen that. But we

Greg Voisen
have about we have the ability to process that because we've got to focus Java, you and I, we can we can you know, we can have peripheral? We can sense we can feel we can, all these things are happening that to us. But really, we distill that down. And I think he said about 70 Mm hmm. In other words, it's like the brain has the ability to process all this information that's coming in through your eyes and other senses, and literally process it down into about 70, which is about all weekend and yeah,

Steven Campbell
doesn't surprise me. Yeah, it doesn't surprise me. So. So what I'm talking about, though, is taking all the stuff that you're learning and making it permanently in your brain,

Greg Voisen
right? It's a pattern, it's a pattern recognition and right.

Steven Campbell
So what I tell my listeners is this that that since the human brain is so amazing in terms of what it can remember and take in the A primary element that holds all of us back from learning or growing and changing is what we say to ourselves. Right?

Greg Voisen
Well, on that line, you know, I started this off about the unconscious, the subconscious mind and how it affects our self-image. Because you talked a lot about the self-image, either negatively or positively goes both ways. And what can our listeners do to reprogram the subconscious mind? I know I use hypnosis, I have somebody that does hypnosis with me. I believe that that hypnosis is highly effective. Yes, I know a lot of it. I know a lot of people don't believe in it at all.

Steven Campbell
But there's a really, really interesting story that I tell about Gnosis that's that that has been done over and over. Let's, let's imagine that I put something in front of you on my desk, and I say, okay, and I hypnotize you. And I say this weighs 500 pounds, and I'll give you $1,000, you pick it up. So you reach over and pick it up. And you're under hypnosis. So you think this, okay? You reach out and pick it up and it doesn't budge. It does not budge, it doesn't move, and you and you're strong, you could pick it and it should be flying across the room, but it doesn't work. Okay. Now, I'm not, I don't really know you that? Well, Greg. So I want to make sure that you're not fooling around with me. So what I do is I put electrodes on your biceps here, the part that picks it up, and I put the other set side to some sort of medical measuring device, it shows that you're lifting with about 40 pounds worth of force, this only weighs a few ounces. So this should be bouncing off the ceiling is still doesn't budge within your lifting with another enough force. Why is it moving? Here's the answer. If I put electrodes on your triceps, the muscles that push down and will show that you're why you're lifting with 40 pounds for the $1,000 who are pushing down with 40 pounds for sanity. Because your self-image one of your millions of self-images says I cannot lift 500 pounds. It's what we do to ourselves. We say I'm absolutely convinced I can't do this. So what can I do? So let me ask answer your question. In a really a couple of really neat stories, I want to apply this in two ways. One is when you do something really, really well. And the other one is when you blow it. And that pretty much covers everything. Okay? A study came out back in the 19 in 1970 1975, called the effort effect from Stanford University. You can Google it. And what they discovered is that most of us pass over our successes. Way too quickly, too lightly for them to ever become a part of who we are. We pass them over. So when people say good job, we say Oh, not really. Oh, that's embarrassing. I was part of the team. Thank you very much. That's egotistical. Thank you. But really, oh, no, no, no, no. Okay. The sad part about that, is that our brain believes what we tell it. So when we say no, no, no, our brain says Oh, okay. And those compromises fall to the floor. So here's a new way of thinking which I share with our audiences. From now on. When someone says, Good job, you look at them and you smile, and you say, thanks, I know. Now, I shared this with 300 Kaiser physicians years ago when I was teaching this down in Huntington Beach. And when I said thanks, you know, the whole bar room just broke up and roared with laughter. But I'll tell you, they loved me, they absolutely loved me. And when I was driving back to LA X, I was so excited about the freeway. So I stopped for tuna sandwich to coconut Chevron. And when the car was gassing up, I looked at myself in the mirror. And I said to myself, You are the most amazing speaker. And you know what my brain said? My brain said, Yeah, you really are because it agrees with everything I tell it. But here's what it also does. And this is even more exciting. And it also said and Steve, you could even be better. It'd be giving me ideas how I could be a better speaker. I'll do this and that and this that now, if I said I messed up here, I mess up there which is true. I did mess up places. What would have happened to the gate that have opened the gate was slam shot. So here's a new way of thinking when you do something well From now on, when someone compliments you, you simply say You know what? That makes me feel really nice. Thanks for taking the time to tell me that. And then you wallow in your success like a pig in slop.

Greg Voisen
It's good advice why you give a great story about Cliff Young I thought this was really quite a story a farmer from Australia. This really exemplifies this is such a great story and really exemplifies the strength and subconscious mind that if you tell it something you can get there. Can you tell the stories to listeners on this one, this one was just like blew me away with this guy did

Steven Campbell
cliffie on you can google him on he saw on the internet all over the place. He recently died, I think but cliffie on back in 1968 entered the first Australian marathon, which went from Sydney to Melbourne. 885 kilometers 545 bucks. And 150 the top runners in the world flew to Australia to run in this marathon. These are paid marathon runners, and Cliff Young showed up wearing MacBooks and galoshes. And of course, all the reporters ganged up on Cliff, what are you doing here? What are you doing here? They said, Well, I've spent my life on the Outback on the 2000 acre farm, chasing my 2000 ahead of sheep. I mean, this is a five day race. I've run sheep for three. So he ran the race. And he beat them all. By a day and a half. How did you do that? When you run a race like this, you run for 18 hours and you sleep for six. Greg Cliff didn't know that. He didn't know you're supposed to sleep. So while all the other races were sleeping, he just kept on running using what is called the Cliff Young shuffle. Where the feet are parallel. They're not he doesn't lift them up. They're parallel, right to the ground. Now, that's really inspirational. But I tell my audience, I'm not here to inspire you. Because inspiration lasts for maybe three days. And then we go back to our old ways. I'm here to help you change the way you think. So let's talk about the next year. The next year, they had the same ways Cliff Young showed up. He himself couldn't finish it. Eight runners beat his record. And the year after that the year after that year after that. And they asked what do you do? How would you train about sleep? And they said easy. We looked at Cliff yawn. If Cliff Young can do it, I can do it. It reminds me of the story. I wish I forgotten his name. But up until the 50s. We knew that you could not run a four minute mile. It was physically impossible to do can't be done. And then I forgot his name but had been it Bannister. Thank you. Thank you very much. He did it. And now if you're running track in high school, if you don't run if you don't run the four minute mile, there's something weird, right? It's just a natural thing. It's the way our mind thinks.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, it was interesting because he used to train in Lake Tahoe at high altitude. Yeah, yeah. So that was that was where Bannister was, and I have a brother that's still alive. That roomed with him. Oh my god. That's why I knew. So Oh, my God. But he was training around the lake. Now you have a chapter focused on learning how to control self talk, what are the five levels of self talk? And how can we use those to control negative self talk?

Steven Campbell
Well, let me send her in. Since I see that we're running out of time, let me send her in on dealing with how to deal with negative self talk. Okay, the five levels you can get on my book, but I want to send her in on what do you do with negative stuff?

Greg Voisen
That's a good idea.

Steven Campbell
When we mess up, we often say to myself, all my goodness, how could I have been so stupid? And the scary part is that our brain pops up and says, Oh, I know. Remember that dumb thing you did yesterday? Yeah. And that dumb thing to do a week ago, a month ago, and we get a list. And we start going down the list of all the dumb things we've ever done. Now, this is really important to understand, Greg. When we do that, and remember all the stupid things we've done. Our brain does not know that those memories happened a week ago, a month ago, a year ago. The brains recording the event. Again, the memory of it, along with the feelings that you had when it happened, and then is carrying it around. Here's what I tell my audience, you don't have to do that anymore. Through here's what we do. When you mess up this afternoon, it's only 11 o'clock, you'll still have another hour to mess up some time before we're done here. When you mess up, and you start getting off the list. Number one, throw away the list. And then use three wonderful words. You know what the words are? The next time.

Greg Voisen
The next time

Steven Campbell
I'll do it this way. And when you say the next time, we're saying three things. Number one, you say there is a next time? How many next times do we get Greg? Unlimited, unlimited, as many as we want? Yeah. Number two, when you say the next time you say no, I'll never give up. And number three, when you say the next time, you're saying I'm still learning and growing and changing, which means I'm still messing up. But just because I fail doesn't mean I'm a failure.

Greg Voisen
So positive reinforcement.

Steven Campbell
Absolutely. Let me share with you my last favorite story by Albert Einstein, Albert Einstein, who invented the light bulb helping Edison, Edison was asked by New York reporter how it felt to fail 999 times looking for the filament of the light bulb. His response was I did not feel 999 times. I simply found 999 ways it didn't work, right. That's what we're doing in life, especially with COVID. We're trying things that work. And we're throwing out things that don't,

Greg Voisen
right. So important. Yeah, you know, you this book, making your mind magnificent for all my listeners is it's an easy read. There's places for you to take notes reflect at the end of each chapter. It's there's also takeaways from each chapter, which I think are really important. What would be the three takeaways that somebody could apply immediately smoker.

Steven Campbell
Two of them, I mentioned, when someone compliments you, you say you know what, that makes me feel really nice and wallow in your success, like a pig and stop. Number two, when you mess up, you say, You know what? The next time I'll do it this way. The next time I'll do it that way. The next time, I'll do it this way. And number three, we didn't have a chance to get into this. But this is so exciting. This is very much part of our feelings about ourselves, especially it turns out are not coming from how we were raised and the events in our lives. Do you know where they're coming from? Greg, they're coming from what we are saying of ourselves rays, and what we're saying about events, and we can replace, but we're saying

Greg Voisen
that's very insightful, Steven. And I think that for anybody who, you know, gets the book, it's only going to take, you know, maybe one of the ideas that you take away from this book that's really going to help you. And I think we're all trying to constantly work on ourselves. This, this podcast is on inside personal growth. And you know, when you look in the mirror, you have to say I'm a good person, you have to say that I can exercise better judgment next time. You all of these kinds of things, which are, don't berate yourself for something that went wrong. Say like you just said, that Edison thing was 10,000 times that he tried the light bulb, but, you know, go at it again, don't give up. Thanks for being on inside. Personally,

Steven Campbell
thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

Greg Voisen
So there your insights and wisdom about this. I think that our listeners will really love it. And we're going to put a link to Stephens website, which is just Steven s te ve and Campbell ca MP Bl al.com

Steven Campbell
stevedore Campbell

Greg Voisen
car is the RNN. Okay,

Steven Campbell
even our Yeah,

Greg Voisen
okay. We'll put that in the link. Okay. So thanks so much to you. Have a great rest of your day. Okay,

Steven Campbell
you too. Thank you.