Greg Voisen
Welcome back to Inside personal growth for another great addition with Clement Decrop, and Clement is joining us from you're in Santa Monica. Is that right? California? Or where are you exactly?

Clement Decrop
Venice Beach, right next to it.

Greg Voisen
Venice Beach. They're like, you know brother, sister, so he knows I used to go to USM University of Santa Monica, and I got a master's degree in spiritual psychology up there. And wonderful place to be. We're going to be talking about his book called The idea space, the science of awakening your non self. Okay, he didn't say your true self. He said, You're not so. And we also in there, he has a deck of cards, which you can get at his website. And I'm going to give out the link to that website as well, which will actually be in our blog. But for our listeners, it's the idea space.io the idea space.io, and let me let our listeners know a bit about you. Clement Decrop, he's an author and inventor and a mindfulness advocate. He is the visionary author of the idea space, the science of awakening your non self, a transformative book that explores the intersection of science, philosophy and mindfulness and with a unique perspective blending his background in business leadership and passion for personal growth, Clement introduces readers to the concept of idea space, a revolutionary framework for understanding creativity, consciousness and human experience. Clement's work is rooted in belief that by challenging conventional notions of the self, we can unlock greater clarity, purpose and fulfillment. As a thought leader, speaker and advocate for mindful living. He is inspired individuals to rethink how they perceive reality and awaken to their full potential. Well, we got a full plate here Clement, so let's get down to it and get dirty and get into it and see what those listeners really need to hear from you today. So the concept of the idea space, what inspired you to create the concept of idea space, and how does it bridge the gap between science and mindfulness?

Clement Decrop
Yeah, first off, thank you for having me here, Greg. It's a absolute pleasure. High five. Yeah, through the camp. But yeah, great starting question. So for me, the concept started was, so I'm a bit of a nerd. I love to read math physics. I did mechanical engineering in school, and I thought for how good science was, and physics, specifically, it had yet to provide a sustainable way to develop and describe the mind. And so around the time of the writing, I was doing a lot of meditation and a lot of reading, and I just tried to answer a simple question, which was, what if we applied the basics of mathematics to the mind, what would the what would that look like? Right? And so through this sort of question that I asked, I kind of got answers in the in the way of like, All right, well, what are the elements of your quote, unquote idea space, which is, like you said, that mental model for the mind, what are the properties which ended up being it has zero measure, which means it looks like nothing to everybody else, and it's impermanent or uncountable, and so it kind of really divulge from there. And the whole kind of goal was to just have all these properties that we have in mathematics and try to map those to the observations that we have of the mind, so that we can describe it in a way that's congruent with modern physics and makes it so that we can talk about our mind objectively, so that we can divorce ourselves from our thoughts and view them as objectively as we would, stars, computers and everything else in this world. Well, it seems like

Greg Voisen
you might have been influenced by quite a P quite a few people I don't know, but I'm thinking to myself that David Bohm may have been somebody that you read, or he was a physicist with the electronic phenomena known as the bone diffusion. Who were some of the people that influenced you to take all of these basic concepts and put it into the idea space? Who would you say was your biggest influence? Yeah,

Clement Decrop
there's good quote by Steve Jobs was, who says one way to remember who you are is to remember who your heroes are. So for me, I think that the big influences would be Steve Jobs himself for just like how you want to lay something out in some way, Richard Feynman and Albert Einstein for just the creative aspect of science and physics. And then the last one, Elon Musk for just like the pure grit and grind of getting something done. But for the book, I think the biggest one would be Richard Feynman, just because he was he had a knack for being able to convey very dense information in an easy to understand way with a lot of pictures. And I try to do that in the book. I understand it's still a little dense in some parts. But for my first attempt at a book, I think it was a fun job, a fun time.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, you know, there's so many people out there, and I was actually quoted in a book, and I'm trying to remember, but he was the guy that had the the theories. I'll, I'll think about it in a minute. He traveled the country, and he was the geodesic dome guy, and went around the country talking about it, and he had a huge audience, which was interesting because it was both scientific, spiritual and philosophical, all in the same nature. So you mentioned that awakening is a non self is a central goal of the book. Can you explain what this means and how it can transform someone's perspective on life? Because let me repeat that for the listeners, it's the awakening of the non self is really the goal of this book. So if you get this in the first five minutes, you're going to get the whole interview, even if you turn it off. Now,

Clement Decrop
yeah, that's funny. So I'll break down what awakening means, and then non self means, and then kind of put the two and two together. So awakening means to see what reality is not, and it's very similar to what science is right. In science, we don't try to prove anything is true. It's all about falsifiability, right? You start with a hypothesis, you test your hypothesis, and then you can either reject your hypothesis or fail to reject but at no point can you prove something to be true. And so I think awakening is that adopting that same mind state of science where you're just relying on falsified viability and skepticism to look at the world. Non self, on the other hand, is this concept that I your name Greg is simply another appearance in your idea space. And so the best way to understand this is by a quote by Richard Feynman, who says, What is a chair? When we look at a chair, we can take look at it and see, okay, some atoms are chairs are some atoms are paint, some atoms are dust. And so in order to be able to define what a chair is, very precisely, is impossible. And so we deal in terms of idealizations and approximations. And so, in a similar way, your name is just one layer of your non self, right? If I zoom in, I see molecules. Zoom in more atoms. By zoom far away, you become a state, a country, a planet, and so on and so forth. And so to say where you start and where you end is very tricky. And so the whole idea of awakening your non self is to again see what reality is not by showing you that this idea of the self that we have that's very traditional with our names, that we're taught at a young age isn't necessarily like the truth, quote, unquote, and how this helps people is that there's a lot attached to our names, right? Like what I want to do, or do I want to be, what I have to do in life, and all of that can cause a lot of suffering and a lot of anxiety. And so by being able to take that step back and look at the whole situation objectively, opens you up to really do what it is that calls you.

Greg Voisen
Well, it's interesting. Interesting because it in Freud, it was the I or the it. And the reality is, is that when we're coming from the eye or the ego self. It's very hard. And even Steve Jobs would used to say before his meetings, because I've had Guy Kawasaki on here, who was basically his evangelist on several interviews, and he said Steve Jobs used to say to the programmers that come in the room, leave your egos at the door. Even though he probably had the biggest one, at least, he understood the concept of leaving your egos at the door because you weren't going to be able to solve the problem from the eye. You had to solve the problem from the it okay. Meaning one connected with all you know, we all have to be together here to do this. And as I didn't remember before, I have remembered now the geodesic dome guy that I was in one of the books it was written about was Buck Minister fuller. And so Buck Minister fuller being a scientist and philosopher, and just like you, kind of having some crazy ideas, the reality is, one of his was that geodesic dome. And if you don't know him, for my listeners, go get a couple of the books from Bucky, if you want to. Actually, they called him Bucky Fuller. It's definitely mind expanding. So how does the idea space merge the exact sciences like physics with philosophical introspection, and why is this combination so important in understanding consciousness, right? So Ken Wilber has been on the show many times. We just finished a book with Ken finding radical wholeness. Okay, well, so when you talk about radical wholeness, you're talking about the same thing you're speaking about Clement, which is, I am one with everything, okay, all right. And once you realize that it's mind expanding, it's consciousness expanding. So explain this idea space. Yeah.

Clement Decrop
So again, physics is this beautiful kind of tool that we have where we take mathematical concepts and map them to observations that we have of the world. And so your idea space is exactly that. It's a physical object. So it consists of your thoughts, emotions, sensations, perceptions and the empty set. And the empty set is intuitively nothing, right? You can think of a table that describes an apple. So it's and this has its colors, red, yellow, blank, right? That blank is the empty set. And in your mind, this is kind of like beginner's mind, when you approach something with a fresh mind state, without any preconceived perceptions or thoughts coming into it. So that's kind of like your object. Think of it as this, like wobbly little thing, right? And then your idea space has two key properties. The first is that has zero measure. So you can hold something in your hand. For me, I'm holding a pen, Greg, you might have like a phone or something, right? Clearly, you can see it. I can feel it. But if I were to close my eyes and bring to mind a mental image of this pen, I would see the mental image in my mind, but then you can't see the picture of the pen that's in my mind, right? No. And so correct. Everything in your idea space, all your thoughts, emotions, has zero measure, which means it looks like nothing to everybody else. And of course, this may change once Elon Musk figures out neural link, but for now, this is where we're at. And then the second property is that it's uncountable, which means that it's impermanent. And the simplest way to see this is just sit down and try to count all your thoughts as they go by. And what you'll notice is that as soon as you try to count a thought, another one arrives. And so these properties, again, just help make better sense of how your mind relates to the universe at large, right? And though the whole goal of it is to try to help detach your eye from all your thoughts, emotions, sensation and perception, so that you can view those objectively, which again, allows you to take that step back and in a lot of like philosophical practices, especially Zen and Buddhism, the whole idea is non attachment, right? Because attachment is the root of suffering, and so by having that non attachment, you're able to reduce suffering, which I think always is nice in life,

Greg Voisen
well, but I think, you know, the Buddha said even, look, and I'm a study of Eastern philosophies, and I'm a member of self realization fellowship. And I think people for years have attempted, through meditation and mindfulness practices, attempted to, I'm not going to say they get themselves into a different space. You call it idea space. It's a space that's more closely connected with the one with the higher spirit. This is a spiritual practice, right? And so I love where you're going with this, and you advocate mindfulness as a tool for exploring idea space. What specific mindfulness practices from your book do you recommend for people that are like beginners out here, because you're talking about something that, for many people, for their lifetimes, it's hard to grasp. Well, the thing you just said about, hey, how do i Quiet the monkey mind from all those thoughts that come through? You know, like, it's like the basic you say number one, I'm not certain you're ever going to quiet it to a point where you don't have any of those thoughts coming through, what you can do is not be attached to those thoughts that come through, but your mind is going to continue to create those thoughts, unless you get into a Satori experience, which would be that complete out of body experience. So talk to the people that are beginners in my show here, maybe not as many beginners as there are people that have been listening to the show and are deeply into this. But I think it's a good idea to go there.

Clement Decrop
Yeah, 100% and I'll hit it on it for beginners and for more advanced practitioners, that way you get the whole spectrum. So for beginners, I think the big key is, like, Sam Harris has a good quote where the problem isn't thoughts themselves, but the act of thinking without knowing that we're thinking right and a good way, mindfulness is like an on and off switch. It's not this crazy, complicated thing. So for instance, like right now, if you're listening this, just be aware of your left foot. Clearly, you can feel the sensations in your left feet, left foot and the toes. And before I said that, you probably didn't really notice it, but it was still there, right? You weren't paying any attention Exactly. And so mindfulness is a simple act of taking that awareness that you have on life depending on what's happening, and it's super important, just because a lot of times we'll get angry in life. For instance, I got angry the other day about something that happened that was so silly, and it just kind of spirals. And if you don't notice it, you'll The spiral is going to continue happening. And so a good practical exercise is just counting your breaths. It's so easy, but you'd be surprised. I try to do it every night before bed, and sometimes I'll get sometimes I'll get to 16, and then I'm like, five thoughts, and I'm like, Oh, wait, I've forgotten what number I was on. It's time to start over.

Greg Voisen
Well, you know, people are into somatic breathing to get a much better experience, you know? And that's deep, deep, deep work. And I get that. So I love your advice, which is just count your breaths, right? The other thing is, I would say, and I didn't write your book, but don't beat yourself up over the action you took. Just realize the action you took, and the more you become aware of what it is that you did, the more likely you are to say that wasn't very serving for me, right? You just said, Hey, I got angry over maybe you were in a line or, who knows what it was, doesn't matter, but it was like you're all tense and angry about something. It's okay to have that happen. What's not okay is not to recognizing that you're making it happen. Once you recognize and become aware through mindfulness of what you just did, which was to release cortisol into your system versus oxytocin into your system, because you could have been happy. That's the problem. Now, how can we understand and apply the idea space concept to improve everyday decision making and or in our relationships. Because, look, we're all making decisions a lot of times during the day. Do I go right? Do I go left? Do I send this email? Do I not? Do I you know, do I pick up that phone call? Do I not? I mean, come on, there's a lot of decisions we make.

Clement Decrop
Yeah, of course. And I love what you said before this, by the way, because beautifully said. Just had to give you your props. But yeah, so for me, I have this simple trick that you can use called the three knees. And it's based on this concept of a world line in physics, where it just your world line is just like how you got to where you are at this point in space and time. And so there's past you, there's present you, and then there's future you. And the whole idea is that you give each of those an arbitrary, arbitrary weighting based on a decision you need to make. And that obviously depends on what you want for future you. And then in that moment, it'll be very clear whether you need to do something or not for like, a specific example for me, like, writing this book, past me would have been okay with it, very like indifferent, I would say, present me. When I was writing, it was like, Yeah, this will be fun, but future me wanted that financial independence to do something that would break free from the traditional nine to five, and so future me got a higher weighting than the rest of it, and I made my decision. You wrote the book? Yeah. There you go, yeah. So look back on it. A book. A book

Greg Voisen
is not an easy thing to write. People may think it, but it's one thing to think. It's another thing to do it. You know, I have three behind me. I just had Brian Tracy on here, 94 books. That man has written, 94 books. So it's, it's really pretty amazing. We were talking about his book on goals, but, but here's the point. You make a you made up a word, cleopen, this new word, I have a feeling it's part of your name and open, but I can't really say for certain. What does it mean for reality to be clopen, and what is the idea to help us navigate the dualities of this life? Okay, we talk about non duality, but the reality is, most people live in the Maya, okay? From an Eastern philosophy, it's Maya that Maya is what separates us from reality, okay, that experience of reality. So what is this Clement thing that you created here, bud? So

Clement Decrop
I wish, I wish I could take credit for it, but it's actually a math term, and it's the combination of closed and open. So they just were like, Let's throw it together. Oh,

Greg Voisen
there you go. You didn't make it up. I thought maybe you made it up, I

Clement Decrop
wish. But it's like, so in math, something can be closed or something can be open, and you wouldn't really expect it, but some things in this world can be opened and closed at the same time, which is very counterintuitive for like, if you're thinking of a door, a door being open and closed, right? Like, how is it open and closed at the same time? And so a good example of this is like, imagine the dress. Have you ever seen the dress? Greg, No, give it a Google after this, but essentially, it's a picture of a dress, and it's black and blue for some people, and white and gold for other people, but it's still the same exact picture. So like, depending on who's looking at it, they'll see two different things, but it's the same thing. And so cloak is that

Greg Voisen
because the cones in our eyes,

Clement Decrop
I would, I would think it's something in the eyes. You know, some people are

Greg Voisen
colorblind, right? And I've been known to be colorblind. I'd be surprised what I might see, right? But there are these cones, I think they're called cones, which are part of this optic nerve and related to this very complicated system that, you know, nature has created here. But that might be it, I don't know, but I like your I like the Open, Closed concept. But the reality is is, how does somebody out there listening to us get their head around it?

Clement Decrop
Yeah, that's a good question. I think it's understanding that two opposite things can be true at the same time. And you can kind of see this in like day to day to day life, whether someone's Republican or Democrat, like they may have two opposing viewpoints, but that may be simultaneously true, or for another physics based one, since I'm a physics guy at heart, this concept of like, particle wave duality, which is, when you're looking at a particle like light, does it act like a wave, or does it act like a particle? And in reality, it's both right. And so all around us is like this particle wave duality happening literally everywhere, and it's a coping phenomenon, right? It's two opposing thoughts that are coexisting at the same time. And though so for I think for most people, it's just like when you get an argument with someone, just know that you may both be right, you may both be wrong and not to attach too much weight to it.

Greg Voisen
You said, attach. So that leads me to this next question, impermanence, unaccountable depth, you say. You describe idea space as unaccountable depth and impermanent. Okay, so how does accepting impermanence lead? I mean, I think I know the answer to this question, but lead to a more harmonious life? Because, look, people, people, human species gets attached to the outcome all the time. It is part of the made up world that the media and the rest would like for everyone to believe. Now, I don't have any leaning toward the whole concept of deep space and who's running the world or any of that. I'm not going to go down that road, but I do go down this road of then this is a Eastern philosophy, this concept of impermanence, versus a Western philosophy, which is, go ahead and attach yourself to all the shit you want to attach yourself to, versus like, hey, what good is that doing for me to get myself so attached then I'm In anxiety most of the day over my attachment. So what would you like to add to that, to get a more homeowners life?

Clement Decrop
Yeah, again, beautifully said. I think the thing I'd like to add is a quote by the Buddha who said, Whatever has the nature to arise, has the nature to pass away. And I think that goes back to what you're saying, where we attach to a lot of things and that arises, and when that thought arises, we're going to attach to it, and it's going to stress us out, and it's like, oh, it's going to be here for the rest of my life. It's never going to go away. But just understanding that whatever has the nature to arise has the nature to pass away is it's like a sigh of relief, right? Like a weight off your shoulders, like you don't have to be that thing that you were in the past if you did some dumb shit growing up, because who didn't, and just be able to just attach right and reinvent yourself at every opportunity. I think that's kind of the beauty of impermanence in my eyes. Well, Bucha also

Greg Voisen
said, and I think I might have already said this, but I'll repeat it. It's always worth repeating something that's philosophical and inspires deep thought, and that is, you know, we have pain and we have suffering, but the two don't have to go together. We're all going to have pain in our life. The question is, are we attached to the suffering as a result of that pain? That's a choice. Now, many people out there might be saying, voicing your wacko, because pain and suffering go together. If you truly reprogram your mind the space in here, you can disassociate yourself with the suffering associated with the pain. There are people that go through surgeries that never get anesthesia, okay, there are people that have done all kinds of amazing things under excruciating amounts of pain, but didn't choose to succumb to the suffering. Okay, whether it's physical or emotional, right? The reality, that's the reality and and I know some people are going to say, I don't believe you, and I'm going to say that's your choice to believe us, or not.

Clement Decrop
Those people need to go check out. David Goggins, that man is lives pain, but no suffering.

Greg Voisen
So you talk about this illusion of the self. Why do you believe that illusion of self is a major source of suffering? We just talked about suffering. So hey, look, if this is the source to our suffering, which we were just talking about, and how can people begin to see through the suffering.

Clement Decrop
Yeah, I think the key concept that comes to mind here are the four noble truths which were kind of the best way to encapsulate all the Buddhist teachings in Zen and Buddhism. And the first one is that this, this sort of the truth of dukkha, which is Sanskrit word for suffering, frustration. And it's just this concept that life is not easy and we're all just trying to survive, right? Just think of it from like an evolutionary standpoint. The second noble truth is the source of dukkha, which is attachment, right? And desire. Whenever we attach to anything, and it's impermanent, it's bound to change. So if it's pleasant, we'll be upset when it leaves. And if it's unpleasant, that's a natural thing to not feel great, right? And that's kind of causing sorts of dukkha. And then that leads to the third noble truth, which is the end of dukkha. And the end of dukkha is all around the non attachment. And that goes into your question around why? Like understanding I is not like your whole self is, because I is what causes the most amount of attachment to anything. And so by detaching it, you're able to kind of fulfill that third noble truth, and then the last Noble Truth. Just to close it all off, is the path of the end of Duca, and that's the eightfold path, which is a lot of different things, but the main one is bright view, and that's just seeing the world just as it is, without all the stories that you tell yourself in the mind.

Greg Voisen
Well, I'm so happy we're having this podcast, because I knew you and I were going to get along tremendously. So see great minds think alike, as they say. So let's talk about your sunset conjecture. It's a fascinating concept that you introduced in the book. Can you break it down for the listeners? What is the sunset conjuncture and what can people take from knowing more about this?

Clement Decrop
Yeah, this is actually my favorite concept in the book, so I'm glad you brought it up.

Greg Voisen
You knew I was I sent you these questions ahead of time. I know,

Clement Decrop
but it's just it still makes me happy. But I think, like the beauty of the sunset conjecture is that it helps show that everyone's perspective of the universe is unique. I think we all fundamentally, on a deep level, believe that, but it's like the sunset conjecture helps demonstrate that. So the sunset conjecture is twofold. The first is that everything you see is in the past and you so let me take it back twofold. The first is that everyone lives at the center of their own observable universe, which is a giant sphere centered on you, where everything you see is in the past. The reason everything you see is in the past is because it takes time for light to travel from point A to point B. Time travels at a light travels at 186,000 miles per second. So for instance, we're seeing the sun right now. It takes eight minutes from like for the sun to reach us. So we're not seeing how the sun is now. We're seeing how the sun was around eight minutes ago. So we can kind of extrapolate that thought process back and back. So for instance, the center of the Milky Way galaxy is 26,000, light years away. Yeah, I'm

Greg Voisen
sorry, I gotta add this because it just seems so appropriate. We're seeing the sun as it was eight minutes ago, unless we had clouds in the sky, which what I'm saying here is this look, many of us like to paint clouds in the sky, even though it's sunny, okay? And it doesn't matter if it was eight minutes or eight years or eight or 80 seconds. The reality is, many of us need to remove the clouds so that we can see the sun. That was my point. I've just as you were saying, and I was like, oh god, I've got to say something about the clouds.

Clement Decrop
I'll say this though, having moved into Southern California, I don't get to see too many clouds anymore, so I'm happy

Greg Voisen
with that. Go ahead with your Go ahead, because this whole sunset conjecture, I get what you're saying, but you need to complete it, so I apologize for

Clement Decrop
No, you're golden. So yeah, first part everyone's at the center of their own observable universe, where everything they see is in the past. And then the second part is at the center of your observable universe lives your idea space. And like we talked about, your idea space has zero measure, so it looks like nothing to everybody else. And it's best kind of captured through a little short story. So imagine you're just walking on the beach at sunset, and you're like, oh, wow, it's beautiful. I see the guns, the sun's golden rays reflecting right off the water towards me, and then your friend behind you says, No, you idiot, the sun's golden rays are reflecting right off the water towards me. And so you're both right in this scenario, right? It's an example of a Clement situation, like we talked about earlier. But again, it just helps show that everybody's perspective of the universe is unique, and understanding that is helpful in life, just because it makes it easier to put yourself in somebody else's shoe.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, and, you know, look, it's this whole idea of all of our universes look different to each and every one of us. We're all we're all unique. And I think in in philosophies, and I'm, I'm, I want to bring this up because it there's billions of grains of sand, and when the ocean washes this up, right? And this is something that SRF talks about, is that there's actually even a little chant before a meditation about the grains of sand, that we're one of the whole we're one of all of those billions of grains of sand out there. Yet we think we're different, and we're the one, and that is the reality is that we are one of those piles of sand that's out there. When you look at it, it really makes you think about it. Now, how has your journey of exploring ideas, these idea space personally transformed you? And what do you think? What you would, you want our listeners to know?

Clement Decrop
Yeah, good question. I think, for me, I think the the biggest thing was just like being able to take a leap of faith in life. I think with like my generation, that there's a big emphasis on, like, going to school, getting the nine to five, grinding it out, retiring, and just living that life. And I think exploring the concept of an idea space helped me really put into practice this beautiful quote I love by Confucius, which is, everybody lives two lives. The second starts when you realize you only live one. I just think that's so powerful and so, like, underappreciated,

Greg Voisen
very hard, very powerful, yeah, Can I quote confuse this? Yeah, of course, that's a great yeah. But I

Clement Decrop
think that's like, the biggest takeaway I would have. Like, I think the idea space helps unlock that SEC that like the second life for yourself and helps you see the world very clearly, right? The eight way, eight fold paths we talked about, so that you can follow your passions and everything else you want to do

Greg Voisen
in life. Awesome, awesome way to put it. I just want to thank you for that. Now look for readers who are skeptical, skeptical about mindfulness or abstract concepts. How does your book The idea space make these ideas accessible and relevant? Because, hey, look, when you dive in this book initially, and I'm gonna say for my readers, this is not for the weak of heart kind of book. There's lots of graphs and illustrations, there's lines. It's truly been written by an engineer and scientist and, you know, physicist, kind of mind, his mind, on the other hand, our goal and intention today in this podcast was to simplify it, and I think that's what we've done. And if you really want the simplified version, just get this 100 mindful props, decks and practice the mindfulness stuff. So back to my question is, what do you want the readers to take away that would really be valuable for them today?

Clement Decrop
Yeah, I think that quote by Confucius is the biggest takeaway. And then for the skeptics out there. I think the whole idea is that not everything in life can be measured, right? As hard as we can try, it's just not possible. Like, I can't use a ruler or a sensor to measure what's going on in the mind of Greg right. Now, as much as I can, I can try. And so you need a new tool, right? You need a new kind of asset in order to help do that. And eventually, life, at the end of the days, and a single ai,

Greg Voisen
ai,

Clement Decrop
it'll be there. Yeah, I'm I'm all about it. I'm ready.

Greg Voisen
I think it's already reading my mind. I mean, I can write in chat GBT, and I swear it knows me, because it actually, like, finishes what I'm doing, and it's like, Jesus, I couldn't have done as good as bad.

Clement Decrop
Yeah, chatgpt is the best. Give it some that. And there's also suno.ai that makes music for you. There's runway that does text to video and mid journey for text to image. There's, yeah, the AI, it's

Greg Voisen
gone crazy. It's gone

Clement Decrop
I love it, though. I'm glad I do for it me for the robots. Everyone

Greg Voisen
tells me they're so afraid of this, and I'm like, There's nothing to be afraid of. They're not going to take over and you're worried about and even if they do, maybe they'll make this world a better place, you know? So the point is, is that I don't think there's much to be afraid of, although there are always soothsayers out there. So like in wrapping this interview up, what actionable steps would you recommend to somebody after they finish reading your book to deepen their understanding and begin their path toward awakening? Now I said, you know, if we just did an interview, as I said, with Ken Wilber on radical awakening, right? And that is our true oneness with everything, okay? Easier said, a little bit more difficult for people to understand. Can you give us the Clement version of that versus the Ken Wilber version of radical awakening?

Clement Decrop
Yeah, of course, I think awakening in life comes in many instances, right? It's kind of like the way that I describe it in the book is like in the universe at large, there's black holes, which is kind of like a rip through the fabric of space time that creates, like a supernova, big ball. And in your mind, something similar happens right a moment of enlightenment and the moment of awakening, when you rarely see what reality is not right. And so throughout life, you're going to have a lot of those, a lot of different moment of awakening. And the key is like, write it down. What if it's a quote that helps awaken you, a song that helps awaken you, or just like a dance or something just like write it down, because then in the future, you can always go back to them, read them, and it'll just make it easier to help navigate across your idea space and all those moments of awakening in time.

Greg Voisen
Well, one thing I can say, Clement, you have given me an awakening, and I want to thank you for being on inside personal growth, you've actually opened me up to a new term called open, which I didn't have closed. And open, I learned something every time I come on one of these shows, which is truly always marvelous, which is why I get it. It says that. It says, on the back of this book for this is the front, but on the back it says the world's most interesting book. And I would say it is because the perspective of which Clement takes. The other thing I would say is go to www, the idea space.io.io.io. I'll repeat that three times for anybody else who's still listening, because, you know, there's so many sub domains at this point. Yeah, I ran into one the other day. It was there. There's a dot. Love now, dot, l, o, v, e. Had no idea. So, you know, thank you Go Daddy, thank you GoDaddy, or whoever's out there doing all that, thanks so much. Well, Clement, Blessings to you. Namaste, my friend. Enjoy the rest of your day to day. Enjoy your holiday season, whatever you're doing. Thanks for being on inside personal growth and sharing your life experiences and your ideas based book and, more importantly, your 100 mindfulness cards. I actually think that's a jump start for a lot of people. Well,

Clement Decrop
thank you for having me, Greg. It's been a pleasure. I've loved the conversation.