Greg Voisen
Welcome back to Inside personal growth. This is Greg voisen, the host of inside personal growth, and joining us from the Dominican Republic. I just realized they weren't in Miami, which is what it says on their LinkedIn profile. Is Paul Rivera and Esther? I don't want to mispronounce your last name, but it sounds like zeldon. Yeah, pretty close. Well, there's an accent mark over the O, so zeldon. And if you guys look at this book and we'll be showing this on a screen that pops up as well. It says chasing the American dream, and it's all crossed out. It's creating your limitless life. I think that's really important for my listeners to understand. And I'm going to let our listeners know just a tad bit about you guys, because I always like to open up and and give them, you know, some perspective of who it is we're talking to. So Esther, you say on the back of your book here that you are a master in making a dreams work, your pioneering work, pioneering work as an international diplomat, scientist and life coach, has proven to work for people of all cultures and across communities, corporations and countries as you're known. Dr EZ has created a powerful formula for balanced success and brilliant productivity that everyone can use to create their limitless life well. And the website that for my listeners, you want to go to is be act change com. It's really a fascinating website, and it's a great place for you to go to learn more about both of them, because they're you are husband and wife. Is that correct? Okay, even though different last names. But Paul Rivera, PhD, if you go to there, we'll put a link to his LinkedIn profile. He's got a very interesting background, as does Esther, but he's a strategic planet planner, expert, facilitator, international economist, widely recognized for his visionary leadership and guiding organizational change toward purpose driven and sustainable impact with deep, deep expertise in complex and high threat international environments. He has a degree from USC, University of Southern California. He's also fluent English, Spanish, French and Portuguese, and his PhD is in economics. We were just talking about that. There's a few graphs and charts on the book for listeners. If you get whoop I hold up the back of the book. I'm sorry that they literally can get into well, it's a pleasure having you guys finally on the show. I know it took us a while to get all this scheduled and pull it together, but thanks for your persistence here. Now, when authors write a book, and in this case, Esther, it was you, but you know you were being influenced by your husband. I'm sure what inspired you to write, creating your limitless life, and what was the turning point that kind of led you to develop the concept of what you're calling the limitless life? Because in the personal growth world. You know, we hear these buzzwords thrown around all the time, right? It's not unusual to have something like that said. What was it for you guys that you you crossed out chasing the American dream and living the limitless life, because you're joining us from the Dominican Republican so I think that maybe that's part of crossing out the American dream. Am I right or wrong? Well, it's,

Paul Rivera
I mean, sort of for us. It is for us. And I think that's, that's the whole point of the title, right? It's your limitless life, whatever that is, right? So that's why I crossed out the American dream, because the American dream, because the American Dream has a set, very set definition. It's get married by a certain age. It's very metric driven. Buy a house by a certain time. Get married, have two children. You should you should receive a certain title by a certain age, by that's a lot of the societal conversations, right, that go in with family society, right? Why aren't you married? Why aren't you this? Why don't you have your house, where's your promotion? And the thing is that not everyone wants the American dream, and that's something that we discovered, right? Like we had all the American Dream metrics, but that was not our legacy, and that is not what the impact we wanted to leave behind. Now we're not saying that your legacy, your limitless life, may include right components of the American dream, but the American Dream is still very limited, right? It's based on these metrics, these milestones, rather than right, the feeling and impact, right? You want to leave behind, but we celebrate when we have a celebration of life, right? It stops there, rather than being expansive. And then you ask that really curious question, like, why limitless? Because the way we see is like, the the those metrics, or that's what's limiting, right? Those are all the limiting beliefs that that's as far as you can go, or that's what you should do. And limitless makes it like it can be, whatever it is, whatever comment.

Greg Voisen
Can you comment for me? Then Esther and or you Paul? Yeah. You know, one of the things that, after 17 years of doing this show and 11 170 podcasts, you know, I've heard so much around the personal growth space, yeah? So we have fear and we have love, yep. Now if you're loving yourself, you're doing exactly what you're talking about, which is living this limitless life. Yeah, but when you have fear, and we all have fear, fear holds us back from having a limitless life. Can either of you comment how you overcame some of your own fears and apprehensions to have a limitless life so that my listeners can understand what it is that you did and how your perspective changed. Yeah,

Paul Rivera
absolutely. And I think this ties into your question, so why we wrote the book? Right? So I think, like the it's the book that I needed when I was in my 20s. And I'll let Paul chime in too, because I really had that fear, one that I anything like that I could only get so far. I had fear, even when I got those metrics, that fear of losing it all. So right, if I, if I, when I was in that position, right, where we had all the metrics, but I felt that I had this bigger calling and this more love to give in the world. I love how you use love. I had the fear of, I can't pivot, I can't change. I can't do something like that. Because when I come our stories is, you know, I was born in Nicaragua, immigrant family, right? Like, scarcity was that mindset, right? Like, oh, we can lose everything. We're gonna lose everything again. And I also had the added story of a two years old, you know, I had three weeks to live, and then my dad won the lottery and saved my life. But then we go back, and there's Civil War, and then we had to immigrate, and then my parents had to take service jobs. So I grew up with my purpose being only of establishing financial stability for the family. And so when, when, when I received financial stability, right? That's when that fear comes in, is that I have to stay in this fear because I can't go back to being survival mode or not having any more money again, or doing that. But that, that calling that thing, of wanting more impact, more feeling, of finding that alignment was stronger than that. And I think that when you talk about how we did it, is, first, I had to, like, unlearn all those limiting beliefs, and a lot of them were cultural, societal, right? It was like, one that's not for you. Second, you already achieved. You should be grateful. Going after that is selfish. You're going to hurt your family by doing that and your children, right? And it was like all these ingrained and and some of them are from the Latino culture, but a lot of them we've seen through all of our work are cross cultural. They're global. And

Greg Voisen
you, you know, start, pardon me for interrupting, but I'm sitting here seeing the economist on the other side, and I think there's probably some individuals out there that when money economy changes and people shift, the fear shifts, because it's, it's a, actually a consciousness shift. So, you know, you Paul, having studied economics, you understand, you know, when the Feds lower the rate by a quarter point or half a point, you maybe see a little bit rise in the stock market. Can you comment on not only the mechanics of it, but literally, how it affects us psychologically and emotionally, so that we actually either stop or put our dreams on hold?

I think that's a big part of how that that line of questioning, is how we got to sort of the crossing out, the chasing the American dream, because it puts us on this path of volatility in a lot of ways, and that's one of the and when we think about risk, when we think about losing it all, it's about volatility, right? It's about that, those shock waves that hit us up and down, whether it's life, whether it's the economy, whether it's a massive hurricane coming in your direction, you know, those are the things that cause us to take a step back and say, I think I need to put a pause on this, because it right now, it's too risky right now, it's too I can't put at risk everything that I have built, everything that I've worked for my whole life. And so the thing is that there's always going to be something like that appearing in your life. There's always something that you can mentally create that risk scenario that wants to push you back into that safety zone. And the problem with the safety zone you talk you mentioned the the mental health aspects of it, once you are in that space where what you learn to value is your perception of safety and your title and your position and the the wealth and the money itself, it's something That's detached now from your sense of purpose, your uniqueness in the world. And the problem is that once you have sacrificed that uniqueness to to that fear, you begin to lose a little bit of yourself each time you begin to stray a little further from that path that is authentic to you, that is meaningful to you, that is the way in which you leave your legacy in the world. So, you know, years ago, I was in a position, when I was leaving my diplomatic job. I we were both US diplomats, and we were serving overseas, and I was in a position of wanting to leave that that job. And it was, it was going to be the first time in my life, since the age of 14, that I would have left a job, quit a job without having another job lined up. And I mean, it was the ultimate risky thing. I have four children, you know, and all of this and so much responsibility. And Esther told me every day, quit that job, quit your job, quit your job, quit your job, and it's a really hard position to get to. So we took a trip. One time, she was on a work trip, and I accompanied her to Panama, and we met this gentleman who knew nothing about us. We hadn't shared our story with him. Our situation, really fascinating guy, and it happened to be my birthday, and he started sharing a story with us, and he gets real quiet all of a sudden, and he says, You know what I've learned in my life? He said, I've made millions and I've lost millions. I've done great things. I've had really hard days. He said, If you have the skills, if you have the knowledge, if you have the experience, the only risk is not taking the leap. And it was amazing. It was, it was what I needed to hear in that moment. You know, it was, it was a very sort of cosmic, spiritual, almost, kind of an encounter with Him, because He something in him spoke to me in a way that I really needed in that moment. And it's something he

Greg Voisen
was speaking to you, having the confidence in yourself, right? And I think, you know, look, we, all of us, and I'm going to get to this alignment factor in a minute here. You know, Jordan Peterson, the professor from Canada, which you guys probably know, you know, he talks about that everybody has a contract with the future, but they have to look at the sacrifices in the present. Now, I did a book last year with mountain climbers that climbed all the highest seven summits in the world. And you look at fear. You know, the fear of dying on top of Everest, the fear of having something happen to you. We all have those fears. So my situation to you is, how do you guys shift your perspective? How did you shift your perspective about the security, you know, Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs says, you know, home, safety, family, move up the ladder and go to the top. Words, actualization. Self actualization is the highest top of every realm. And every psychologist in the world talks about the lines and levels, including, I just did a podcast with Ken Wilber, right? And the reality is, is that we still inherently, because of the way our, you know, I call them, a million brains are actually created, and the way they fire, we still go there? Is there some ways that you could tell people how not to allow that brain to fire that way mechanically, because it just wants to go there?

Paul Rivera
Yeah, absolutely. And I think this goes ties into the the conversation you were saying about confidence, right? It's also like, since we've tied all value, and this is also goes back to the chiefs and American dreams. So we title value in society, that your worth is only by your title and what you produce, right? You become really tied that that's the only thing I can do, or that's, that's, that's where I'm limited, right? So a lot of the the work in the book is that we each have a unique way of solving problems that we've used since we were seven, right? And we call like, you know, how you solve problems, your how to there's different as you submit different phrases. You can explain that. So when we do these exercises of like, if you had, we could even do it here, if you had ten billion you chose a global problem, and then you explain, let's say you got that money. Let's, let's do it right now. If you had 10, $20 billion what would you do? What problem would

Greg Voisen
you I would work on the issue? You know, I've been watching a lot of Bill Gates lately just to see what he actually is doing. So environmental problems, malaria, diarrhea, all the issues that have killed now, we've seen the decrease in infant mortality go down in many countries, right? But I would work on a lot of the problems here, at home, homelessness, right? Shelter for people that are harmless. I have a charity called compassion and communications. That's what we do. So I don't have 10 billion, but I have been applying what I've been getting to that issue, and I'm not certain I would change that, although I would add an element to that, and that is, I'm very much, let's just say it socially responsible person reinvest. I would be putting money from the nonprofit into areas that are going to solve many of our global warming issues and other issues as well, which are basically causing this catastrophic issue that we're having with the with the weather, yeah, in all California, fires, Florida, floods, hurricanes, all this kind of stuff. You can't say that this isn't unprecedented. It is, you know. And so that's what I

Paul Rivera
would do. Okay, great. So if they gave you the money. So what I'm hearing, right, if you had the money, what would be the three to five steps you would do with that money? So I heard a little bit in the order you would do it. So I heard a little bit from there, right? I heard you would invest in other causes and other linked causes that affect the larger system. I also heard you would start with a local issue at home. What else would there be or like, or would there be something that would go first in your plan,

Greg Voisen
you know, really the homelessness situation in Southern California, okay? That would be my first attack. I mean, it's a huge problem, okay?

Paul Rivera
And then so you would first attack that. And then what else would you do with the money?

Greg Voisen
You know, I think even go, I mean, look at the on the same realm feeding people, including the issues associated with school lunch programs and all the other kind of areas we have. So I'm going down to the basics levels, right? Is where that I could put that money. And then as I go up, I'm saying, how the next level, then Esther would be that environmental issues.

Paul Rivera
Okay, amazing, right? So what I'm hearing from your health too, right? And we would, we would together then do other problems to see if you would take the same approach, personal, professional. What I hear is, first you're like, let's look at the root causes of the issue. Let's make sure that we are low hanging fruit, right? So taking it from like, survival crisis to a place where it's like stable, and then from there, then we could start adding on, right? So I assume, like, if someone came to you and asked you for another problem, let's say they were, they had, I don't know, they were in debt, right? I wonder if, like you're, would it be the same process that you would say, Okay, let's set first. Let's do some baby steps. Let's get you, let's get that debt under control. And then from there, then we can start looking at

Greg Voisen
laughing, because I have a son that just came to me and explained amounts of debt with the IRS, and has asked me to bail him out, you know, so you must have been reading my mind or jump on some energy or something. How have I approached it? I've literally taken this a step at a time. I haven't rushed into it. I think anything economically, you've got to look at all the factors, including maybe telling him he should go bankrupt, because it is quite a bit of debt, right? But he's getting married and he's having a baby in December, and he doesn't want to do that, so he's come to me, and it's not a small sum of money, it's actually it's quite a lot of money. So it's a very interesting question that you post, yeah, but I want to get

Paul Rivera
what I wanted to circle back, right, okay, quickly. So

Greg Voisen
I don't know how to I don't really know how to approach that one. I'm kind of looking for some I actually woke up. I wake up every morning now, since it's been proposed to me for a sign, or a symbol, or a sign from God to tell me what I really should, yeah, but I like, I'm being honest.

Paul Rivera
Have you even said it to me right now is that you take the you look at how it connects to everything in step by step, right? And so how you answered the first question, how you answered this one, very similar, right? And then if you texted people back in your life and asked them how I impacted them and when, right, they would tell you similar things, like what you just said, right now, you helped me look at how it's connected to everything. You took time to make that decision. You had me evaluate, take a step by step approach. Sometimes don't like

Greg Voisen
that. I do that, but Right? But it's needed. That is what I do, yeah, but

Paul Rivera
that's your superpower, right? And I think part of like you were saying about building that confidence is and I think you this whole links to it. How we figure it out, how we help other people, is realizing that they've had this superpower throughout their whole life, personal and professionally. So there is no risk. And it ties back to, like Paul's quote, because anything that you pivot to, you can just bring that superpower to that space, right? So even, like, we help people do interviews and and do pitch decks for money. It's really

Greg Voisen
well what you say is so important, and I think so. Look, I don't say that people go out. A lot of people do because they're not mature emotionally. So they make really emotional decisions, and they do things like buying stuff they don't need and doing stuff like that, right? But my point is, is that, logically speaking, I've learned over many, many years to be almost like Paul and, you know, The Economist like, okay, there's this account this. How do I do this? How would I work this? What's the best strategic move? Are there tax advantages of this? I mean, I'm wearing at every different angle. And I think the more data you have, and this is where I'm going with data, if you have enough data points, it makes you confident to make a decision Exactly. If you don't have the proper data points, you can't make the decision. You feel lost, so you're seeking to find that So Paul, any anything about getting that data completely.

But there has to be two sides to that. As the as an economist, I can tell you that there's the infinite potential to never stop searching for the data, and they're never actually make a decision, right? That that decision paralysis, the analysis paralysis, is super, super real, especially overthinking, especially when people are unsure of what their superpower is, of what it is that that their value is. You know, that's, well,

Greg Voisen
speak to me about intuition then, because I wrote a book on intuition, yeah, yeah. I mean, at some point you've got to listen to your gut about what it is that you're supposed to do.

We speak a lot to to Latino to black and brown communities, and it's one of, it's one of the spaces where the whole concept of listening to your intuition has not really become part of the cultural parlance. You know, when we we actually had a conversation with with James Redfield, not that long ago, you know, who wrote the Celestine and in his mind, this, that whole concept of listening to your intuition and everything that he proposes, he almost saw it as it's been done already. And we came out of that conversation going absolutely not in our communities. It's not

Paul Rivera
something we're still stuck in the 80s, 90s of his book. So, yeah, yeah. So, so for

me, for example, learning to listen to that inner voice. And for me, what has been transformational for me in that realm has been breath work. I've tried lots of other things, somatic breathing, yeah, exactly. And yeah, it's

Greg Voisen
Well, I think that the key is, is we take our breath for granted every day. Yes, cold plunges, somatic, breathing, saunas, whatever it is, the workouts, yoga, meditation. I live here in Encinitas, and I'm a member of self realization fellowship, So meditation is a very big part of my practice. But I think this comes to really people understanding in this book, you mentioned, people will defer their dreams, we just said this a minute ago, and feel misaligned. Okay? And there's so many people that do that all their life, until they go to their grave. Yeah, so how can someone recognize the signs of misalignment? I think I know what many of them are, you're stressed, you're anxious, you're this, you're that, you're you're constantly your brain is turning and churning and trying to figure out solutions. What are, what did you guys find for you were those misalignments? And in the second part of the question is, what is the purpose sun? Yeah, you know. So, I mean, because if you don't have the purpose defined, this is all going to be kind of worthless. Yeah. So who wants to feel that you? So

I'll take the first one the I think for both of us, one of the biggest signs that we were living in misalignment before we even consciously knew it was physically. We had reached a point where, I know that I had reached a point where I went to my doctor and my doctor said you are exhibiting masking signs of someone who's 2025, years older, you know. And because you're, you're, you internalize that stress, you know. And as a as a man who's the provider as a Latino who's supposed to be macho, all of that, you swallow it, you swallow it, you put off what you know is authentic to you. And every time you swallow that a little bit more, it's your your body takes it in, you know. And so I got to the point where my my cholesterol was ridiculous. My blood pressure, like you

Paul Rivera
were working out every day, was working out. Contradiction, right? Yeah, fit, yeah,

you know, so, and then there comes a point where you're like, Okay, I mean, for me, it was like, I'm my, my life's going to be cut short at some point. It was a very physical kind of

Greg Voisen
a thing, the whole fight or flight thing, you know, cortisol, the cortisol levels will actually kill you, because, you know, we are not living like cavemen, where we have to be worried about all these, you know, exotic animals that are going to eat us, like the tigers and lions. But the reality isn't it. This sounds pretty simplistic. A lot of us live our life as as though we are, yeah, right. And so you're living like, oh my god, you know, what's going to eat me today, the finances, or am I going to lose my job? Or, you know, is this going to happen, or that's going to happen? And you're, if you're constantly, say, focusing on that, right? You're living such a stress life that your cholesterol is up, your cortisol levels are up, your blood pressure's up. You're, you know, you're ultimately living a crazy life. So you guys saw the physical misalignment. How did you see the emotional misalignment? Where was, I mean, Where were your emotions at this point?

Paul Rivera
For me, it was constantly like and it was interesting, because it was a contradiction on my end, because I was doing work that had impact. I was serving communities, I was in humanitarian work, but it wasn't the work, it wasn't the population I wanted to impact. You know? The misalignment was there. And so for me, the anxiety was out of control, like I couldn't even at night, I would feel that I belonged somewhere else, right? So when I hear this and from the people I work, there's like that voice that literally says I need this is not from I need to exit. I need to be somewhere else, right? And that emotional thing ties heavy, right? Like you're constantly anxious. You have panic attacks, and then it spirals to other things, right? You start getting, I was getting anxious about flying that had nothing to do with necessarily anything, right? But it was like it was an accumulation of anxiety, anxiety everywhere, and I started to feel burnout. It's funny. So we talked a lot to other people. Some people were like, Oh, I feel burnout. But it wasn't from working, because I like to work. It was that I wasn't working on things that were aligned with me. I wasn't using my health too. So it doesn't really talk about the superpower, if you can't use it on your every day. I couldn't use it, and I couldn't use the things that were valuable to me, like my value, meaningful work, contribution, I influenced, and I wasn't able to bring like influence, contribution, meaningful work, yes, but it was just like pieces. And I was feeling that and every day, and then feeling irritable, right? And I couldn't pinpoint I even though we talked to my family about it. I went home to my dad and you witnessed it, and my dad was like, that doesn't make any sense. You you help 1000s of people every day. And I'm like, that's not my legacy. That's not my thing. And anyway, that's

Greg Voisen
the alignment you're talking about. I mean, you know, let's face it, if you can get stuff that's aligned and you're in your sweet spot, you're literally, you know, the hours of the day just blow by right now. It still may blow by during misalignment, but at the same time, you're carrying so much stress as a result of the misalignment. And I think for most of my listeners, they understand that you have an exercise in the book called The obituary exercise, yes, to clarify your purpose and legacy. Obviously, you know, writing our obituary should be one where, you know, it's like it's finitude time, folks, you know, people ask me, even myself at my age now today, after 1100 and something podcast and 17 years to do this, and in July, I was 70 years old. So I look at life just quite a bit differently, because this obituary exercise is very clear for somebody who gets a little later in life. So can you share the significance this exercise really had and impacts anybody out there listening their journey to more of a limitless life, because I can almost understand what it is, but I'd love to have you guys explain it.

Paul Rivera
Okay, so the obituary, especially, I get a lot of reactions from it. At first, they're like, Oh, my God, I opened this, and this the first thing. And I feel very I feel emotional, confused and and by and because, I, because we, we touch people who are 1820 right, like that, that's an even part of their scope, right? And also people in the early 40s that don't even want to look at it out of fear, right? But the purpose of the exercise is, like, I really want them to move from the space of thinking about their title and metrics, because at the moment of your obituary, it's about the feeling and impact you're leaving behind, and like, what is and how does that feel like in that moment? And that's where they can get into that headspace of going, Oh my God, wait, it's true in my obituary, if someone's flying over my funeral, right? And it's cultural, culturally different for everybody. That's why I write it there. It's your celebration life, um, it's, it's people are talking about that, right? Like, how you meet them, feel the impact you made in the world, right? And and micro or macro scale, all those things, and they're like, Wow, my title wasn't part of it. My money wasn't part of it. Like, all the stresses on my everyday did not go into that. And it gets people going, Wow, wait. That just gave me so much more perspective, and that people already have something to say today, right? Because we get a lot of like, you know, there's a lot of people where are, like, 20s, 40s and like, well, I have nothing I've accomplished when we do that exercise. Yes, you have, you've already impacted people, right? And that's part of that confidence building as well, realizing you you have it now. It's not when I if I it's today. It's

actually one of the nicest parts about that exercise is that people go into it with a fear of the morbidity around it. And if they've been genuine with the exercise, they come out of it realizing that, in fact, their life has had meaning, that they have had impact already, and that it's about making some adjustments, perhaps to do that better and more effectively and more aligned with them, but it's never the case that they come out and at after that exercise and say, Wow, my life's been wasted, or I've done nothing with my life, right?

Greg Voisen
Yeah, yeah. Well, I think, I think the key, you know, when I just for my listeners, is the title of your website is great. Be act change. You know, the ACT part is really the key, exactly, you know, be act change. If I was going to put up a workshop, it'd probably be called that, right? So look, everybody out there, you know, Paul and Esther, they're, they're going to have setbacks, but they need to be more resilient. Now. It's one thing to say, oh, I need to be more resilient. It's another thing to have a nervous breakdown in the situation, because you really don't know how to be that resilient. What would you what would the two of you tell listeners out there right now that are feeling a bit overwhelmed, they are uncertain. They may realize logically that if I can walk through uncertainty, the opportunity lies on the other side, but they don't have a knowing of it. Yeah, okay. They just don't have a knowing that if I walk through uncertainty, whatever it is, the storm, the finances, the the kids, the issues, and I and but I do. I know, I know on the other side that there's going to be opportunity. What would you advise them about being resilient, to be able to just keep persisting, regardless of that is because on the other side, something good's going to happen.

As an I'll tell you, as an economist, for one, as an economist, when we talk about resilience, it's always in in the context of response to shock, right? I think in this case, we need to think about resilience instead as a daily practice. It's something that you build up over time. Resilience isn't something that you just use in the moment of crisis, but rather something that you have accumulated over time. And it's, it's the practices that help build you up. Like Esther has a really nice example, yeah,

Paul Rivera
like, in the purpose on, there's, uh, there's a thing called, like, what have you overcome, and how? And so I think to answer, the reason why I came up with the purpose on is I chased purpose my whole life, even though I was chasing the American dream. Everyone talked about it, but no one really outlined. What are the questions to ask yourself to unpack that, right? And and the difference between, like, what are all the different elements? And, you know, there's all these different theories around it, but there's something that I think that can help people like listeners that are overwhelmed is that the things that you're that you're overcoming today, are things that you've overcome before, right? And you've you had a tool set that helped you in the past, that could help you today. But as Paul mentioned, the problem is we only use that tool set in the moment when we feel it, when we've hit rock bottom, not even when we're just feeling the moments of overwhelm. It's when we hit bottom, bottom, bottom, right? When we feel like we can't crawl out. And part of that exercise unpacking, okay, what are all the things I've overcome? Right? Like, in my case, was like, depression, anxiety, right, self doubt, all those things. What helped me along the way, and then what helped me along the way, start putting that as part of your daily practice, right? And so when you start doing that as part of your daily practice, you no longer hit rock bottom. So it's like starting in these moments of overwhelm. Okay, so I've probably been overwhelmed in the past, before I hit rock bottom in the past, what helped me was that tool set, and let's do it. So I like what you mentioned earlier, right? That there's all these different techniques, right? There's breathing, there's there's hypnotherapy, right? There's meditation, but you whatever works for each person is different, right? That's why I like this exercise. Is the toolkit that works for each person is it's it's unique, it's different. They have to test out new things, so first use what's worked before, and then add in new practices. But if you start adding that little by little, you start to build that. And then as you start making those steps to understanding yourself and understanding what's aligned with you. What was your childhood dream? What are those characteristics of that dream that you, that you're that's aligned with you? What are my values? And you start making these tweaks, little by little, you start to create this dream. You already start feeling better before you've even reached a destination. I

Greg Voisen
think that old saying Esther is the class, Is the glass half empty or half full, exactly, you know? And I think the perspective really should be, is that is the glass is half full, not half empty, not that actually, things are going down the toilet that I'm actually, you know, the bowl is filling back up again, right? And I think that comes into your perspective. When you say limitless, right? It's like you have to have some spiritual belief beyond what the fiscal world has. And that's where I want to shift the questions here just a little bit, because the two of you sitting there having gone through what you've gone through personally, Esther and you Paul, can't have reached your levels of success, gone through, gotten graduate degrees, USC, you know Esther, you as well, and sit here on this podcast and not have had a strong spiritual belief. Oh, so

Paul Rivera
percent. Yeah. So

Greg Voisen
where is that spiritual belief coming from? Whether it, I mean, it's probably not. It may be originally with Catholicism, but it's probably not now, or maybe it is. It's probably not Christianity. No, it's probably a belief that's beyond that that you have explain to our listeners what that path was for you and how you got there. Yeah,

I would say it was a rocky path, for sure. You know, I was, you know, let come from a Latino family, and definitely a lot of the Catholicism was imposed, but it was not something that necessarily ever clicked with me in a truly spiritual kind of way. And I would say that the spiritual side of all of this is something that I know that I actively fought against for a long time, because I wanted not to go there. I wanted it. I wanted it to feel like it was me and it was my power and my strength and my powers of rationality and intellect that would get me there, and the truth is that that got me pretty far, but it didn't get me to the point where I felt good about it, where I felt fulfilled and that I felt like I was making a difference, until I started to get in touch with that spiritual side, and when I say so, when I say spiritual to me, it means understanding that there is a connection that transcends the physical across not just individuals, but that it integrates when you talk about the environment and the catastrophes that are happening. I see all of that as linked in terms of part of the energy that we put out into the world and what we receive from the world. That's why I love breath work, because it's one of those moments where I feel that connection physically in myself and I've ended and it's something that fulfills me, and it's something that helps me keep understanding why I know that I have my purpose, and I know that connecting to that spiritual side is something that allows me to elevate that purpose and have it be something that I put out into the world. Well,

Paul Rivera
you have a great definition that purpose actually in Hindi means the

word in Hindi, English isn't the only language out there, right? In Hindi, they call it udaysha, and it means your higher place.

Paul Rivera
Yeah, right. So that love that, so that ties to, like my story, with it, where spirituality, for me, is connecting to your higher self, right, yourself in the future, in the vision. So I'm really into I never saw it as spirituality, but I always was. I love James Redfield, right? I love about synchronicity and and I would always have those moments, and every time I would get closer to being fulfilling my purpose and alignment, I would have more of those moments, right? And so I knew that that type of energy existed, but I was fighting against. I did not want to be associated with religion, and in at least, how I grew up within I and I, I very respectful of everybody who's anybody's belief. But for me, it was very restrictive and very gender restrictive, and what we could do and what you couldn't do, and it felt limiting. But being able to being open, that into you could still have a spiritual connection outside of religion. And I could connect right to my Yeah, I

Greg Voisen
think, I think the Buddhist have a good term for it as well. You know, if people have a connection with everything, right, the oneness with all, it's a Satori experience, right? It's like, okay, it's an out of body experience. And we don't, all of us, get that opportunity to have that. But in essence, what your work is doing is helping people to get closer, to be able to have an experience like that as a result of doing the work we have to do to be aligned, doing the work that we have to do to overcome our limiting beliefs. Doing all of that work kind of preps you and sets you up to say, Hey, I'm more in a spot now where I could have one of those. So, you know, you both have some pretty amazing stories, and I'm going to tell my listeners, you know, here's the book. Go out and get a copy of the book off of Amazon. We'll put a link there. We'll put a link to their well, to also to LinkedIn, both of their profiles, and to their website, which is, be act change. You definitely want to go there in your own stories of transformation and kind of wrapping up here, there's a couple of questions. What advice would you give the people that are listening right now who feel that they're at the lowest point possible? It's like they're struggling to see what we've actually just talked about. And you know, that could be a lot of people in today's era, all you gotta do is get on the internet, listen to the news, whatever I would say, you know, try and reduce your diet of that, although people right now are very curious about that. So they're, they're, they're diving into it even more. The more you say no, the more they go do it, right? So the question is, what would you tell them, or what would you advise them to do?

Yeah,

Paul Rivera
so for me, the biggest advice I could give is to take a moment to close your eyes and visualize your ideal day. Like, what are you doing? How are you feeling? And that's a

Greg Voisen
very on purpose day. Your ideal on purpose day,

Paul Rivera
yeah, like, what is my dream day? Look like? How do I feel the impact I'm making? And just take that moment to visualize it. There's so much power just in visualization alone. And I think when you're in that overwhelmed state, I think that's the first step you can take. Right out. That's the first step, visualize it, believe it be like I can. And then the second step is to affirm it. I can have this day. And then third step is I can take one step today. I can do like three things. Like, once, read something, learn, you know, learn, speak to someone, learn something, right? And taking action. And I think just those three things right? And we're not asking for more, especially when you're overwhelmed, it's not about adding more things, but just a simple step of visualizing, I think, like that was part of the our stories, you know, like even, even just the following the American dream, right? Even just going to get those degrees right, where, statistically, if you looked at us, we're it didn't. It's not that part of the statistics, right, like we're point zero or 1% but we visualize that at first, right? We visualize traveling the world, right? Even the metrics, right? And even, like, even when we, we met Paul, got visions, right? And I think just the visualization part realizes that there is some there is in you, this, this, this aligned day already, right? It is there, right? And so just take that one step and that one step closer. We always overestimate we can do in one year, but we estimate, underestimate we can do it five. And it's realizing that, you know, we still have a long life to live and and that you can get there.

I have a different answer to that, okay,

Greg Voisen
and I want to preface what she said. I love the fact that Esther, you have said this three times now during the interview, take small baby steps. You know, I've had so many people on here, the guy at Stanford, tiny changes, right? We've had everybody on here has talked about changing habits, and I agree that if you can actually just change one small thing, and you say maybe not even every day, but maybe just once a week or once a month, right? That's progress toward that. So Paul, you're on my answer

is, my answer is different, and I know that one of the things that I struggle with, and I've mentioned it a couple of times already, but this idea of machismo and having to fight against that, and having coming from a cultural background where I'm told that a man has to behave a certain way, has to always seem strong, one of the hardest things for me still is to actually say it, to vocalize it when I'm down. You talked about, you know, what do you give? What advice do you give to someone who's rock bottom? I know that the hardest thing for many of us is to even say I'm down today's I'm not doing well today, you know. And one of, one of my biggest blessings is Esther, who sees that in me, and she doesn't allow me to stay there as much as I sometimes want to, much to her annoyance. But what I would say is that if you're in you're that person, if you're in that position, absolutely do everything you can to just vocalize that feeling to another person, because that's that's the start, just putting it out in the world, releases a little bit of that weight and opens you to receiving information that is not just in your head, you know, and so much of of when we're when we're in those moments, and we don't see a way out. It's partially because we don't have a perspective beyond ourselves at that point, and sometimes what we need is that input from someone, someone else, who has fresh eyes and a fresh mind on or a new how to or a new Hell

Greg Voisen
yeah, you you have to overcome the fear of asking for help. Yes, you know, I find this, you know, I just did a book, a book interview with a guy who wrote Ben and me about Ben Franklin, but him reflecting on Ben Franklin as a person and what he stood for and but the one of the things that came out for that, what I found interesting, was asking somebody for help and or a favor, right? Or that community that you talked about in your book, that you built, that community of support is so important. So as we wrap up here, what is one of the biggest takeaways that the listeners are going to want to take out of this book and can apply immediately to their life? What would you either one of you say what that is, I

Paul Rivera
would say mindset is really knowing that you can achieve any vision, right? And it's just the time frame changes based on the little steps you take. How you know, how you do that in your life, but anything you visualize, you can make your reality. So I think that's the biggest lesson in the book is that, yes, there's going to be ups and downs and along the way, but if you have a vision and that your vision is valid, and that's what I want to leave people with, because a lot of times people think, Oh, my idea is stupid. My vision's not valid. Nobody's going to understand it. I'm going to throw it away. And I'm saying your vision is valid, that limitless life that you want is amazing. You can make all the impact you want. And here is like the roadmap for you. You create your own roadmap and your own way, and create the resilience on the way, and you can make it happen, and that by doing that, you can help other people do it. And that's how we build collective power and we change society together.

Paul She

Greg Voisen
stole my thunder on the collective power. Because for me, that's that's the lesson in the book. Like, imagine what society would look like if you followed what's in the book. And she did, and I did, and we all did. And suddenly we create a situation where we see each other, not as competition, not as some, not as a you're taking my piece of the pie, but rather you, each of us have a unique superpower. What happens when we come together? What happens when we value each other that way and we start to create that collective power among us? That for me, that's the lesson. And say this too, that it's not just meant like we like to debunk the myth that purpose is only for like, wealthy, privileged. You know what I mean? That's one of our main things, is that everyone has a purpose. Because that was the fallacy we were told, is that that's not for you, and that's not true. We've been all around the world, and every single person, whether you're a fisherman, you're a politician, all societal ranks society, everybody has a purpose and a vision, and they're all They're all valid, and they're all worth seeking, and actually, I appreciate what both of you are doing. Number one, your possibility is because everything's a possibility. Two, you're giving people the tools that they need to actually transform their life to this limitless life. And three, the fact that you've kind of looking looking at this from the patchwork quilt of how we're all interconnected, and that limitless is not just to have something. We have to go by ourselves. We can do this as a community. And for you're elevating the consciousness of individuals to actually see themselves in that light. And I think this is one of the best things that you're doing. Also you're giving them, from a vibratory standpoint, a way to actually vibrate in a whole different new level, to see things in a different level. And scientifically, we also know that the atoms and molecules inside of, you know, this thing that I could hold up, you know, if I had the ability, I could turn this in, or go through this piece of metal or whatever it is. Now, that may sound silly to some, but to really look at your what you're vibrating at is really an important thing, and I want to appreciate and thank both of you for being on insight, personal growth, for spending this time with our listeners. Everybody go out and get a copy of the book. There's also a workbook. I'm going to call it, a guidebook that goes along with this as well. And I didn't have the guidebook here to hold it up, but there is one. You can see it on Amazon as well. Thank you both. Blessings to you each. Namaste to you today. Thanks for Thanks for everything.

Paul Rivera
Thank you so much. Thank you.