Greg Voisen
Well, welcome back to Inside Personal Growth to all my listeners. Joining us from Cohutta, Georgia, but that's spelled C-o-h-u-t-t-a, Georgia, you don't pronounce that CO, is Dr. Craig Thayer. And Craig has written a new book that's just been released. And I think you can all see this it says SAVED!. And One Trauma Surgeons True Accounts of the Miracles in His Life. Excellent book for everybody. I'm going to let my listeners know a tad bit about you, Craig. Craig's life is a study of God in the ordinary, lovingly adopted it nine months, he used his favor, to swim competitively, play waterpolo, to graduate from UC Davis School of Medicine. And as he started a private practice, he has held the noble positions of surgeon review committee chair Chief of Staff, and trauma medical director and created a trauma center. He shares his stories in this book to teach people to see the miracles right in front of them. And always said, it's kind of like the miracles are right in front of you. It's like the old saying, acres of diamonds, you know, people are searching all over the place and try and find something that's right in front of their nose. You know, Greg, Good day to you. Thank you for being on here. Well, I'm honored to have someone like yourself, because it brings a new perspective, I always love getting different perspectives. Whether it's issues of spirituality are tissues of wellness and health. And I think you can address both of those. And issues that we're all dealing with as a human species, right? That we're all confused about. Many times, we're confused, because we haven't found clarity or not listening to that inner voice, that intervention from God, that intervention from a higher spirit. So what inspired you to write saved? And what was the primary goal in writing this book? That again, I'm going to hold back up for my listeners, that's kind of a drawing of Greg, that's excellent. It's, it's very well done. So why did you write at the primary goal of writing it? And what do you want the listeners to get out of it?

Craig Thayer
So you know, my grandmother, who I would call Gigi, because she's a great grandmother to our kids, I'm five. She just told me for 15 years, I'd take her to Sacramento Kings games. And you need to write this book to inspire people to give hope, unify. And it really couldn't have been written that that soon, because one she needed to pass, I think because she left two miracles behind, which are in the dedication of the book. And that was August 7 of 2021. So and then the, the, again, the second reason was in the very last chapter, titled Ralph was a friend of mine. And his death is just profound. If you don't read the book, read that last chapter. Because it will give you hope. I think it will. You know, we all think so we wonder, is there our power? How did we get here? Why are we here? What's two, we have a purpose, all those things. And so, you know, I found faith in Jesus and Christianity. So that was part of the mandate of my being adopted by a Catholic mom. So and she was Irish Catholic as they come born in Ireland and came over when she was 21. So,

Greg Voisen
so Catholicism has played a big role in Yeah,

Craig Thayer
but I would nowadays I would say more evangelic and nondenominational just to be more unifying. There's always Catholic jokes about, you know, which I won't go over but, uh, you know, so it's just, you know, I think, being more into the Bible and reading it, or its content, and again, it's either in Hebrew or Aramaic, in the Old Testament or Greek in the new with some warm air quotes from Jesus. But yeah, to actually study and keep an open mind. That's the way I was brought up. So I was just blessed to have I would always give my dad credit to make me think about the way I was behaving, treating my mom, I'd always argue with her, but really, my mom was the sounding board. And so I would argue 1.1 direction one week and the next day, the opposite and, as I'm sure drove her crazy, but she was doing,

Greg Voisen
being the profession that you've been in and finding God in the ordinary, you say in a circle in the book there. You know, I've had many discussions with people about their finitude lately. Don't ask me why. But I think people since COVID, have been thinking about it more. We obviously saw a lot of people die during the pandemic. Yes. And you've seen a lot of people pass. And in passing, you've seen some go with tremendous, like, don't let me go, they're afraid, and others that I would say, pass peacefully. I've seen both when I say peacefully. And it always seems the ones that I've watched pass peacefully, either the ones that have faith, right, and have an understanding, once they don't have faith, obviously, have a lot of fear. Right? So when you look at faith in fear, opposite ends, jump to juxtaposition. Can you address that? Because you cover this range of topics and spiritual and, and faith? And what do you hope that readers are going to gain from just that understanding itself?

Craig Thayer
I think when they when they read the book, and again, it's about my life story, but really, it's about the miracles and God in my life. So. So when you look back, and you use the words, coincidence, luck, lucky, impossible. Just think about those, those could be the miracles that were in your life. And that were You were intervened by God in that made a big change in your life. So. So you know, God, it also shows clearly that God, God's still there, he's still doing miracles in my life. I mean, the pictures in the very beginning of the dedication, my grandmother died at 1031. At night, she had this clock that was sacred to her that they fixed. And she got to hear the last chime at 1030. Tonight at 1031. Well, two days later, it stopped at 1031. And then there was a stool in the guest bathroom that had a book on it. Next to the sink that had her glasses of bookmark, she clearly had been in the book and was going to come back and read it and the title was gone missing. So no, these are the small things if you don't look, you don't see. And if you don't listen, you don't hear so you know, and I think the other things in the book are hopefully portrayed that, you know, Christianity is about not judging. You know, we're all people, we all bleed the same good artists that a Sacramento actually Mandisa, same with Toby Mac, you know, we all bleed the same. So, and then again, the last chapter with Ralph and to his finally finding faith, you know, in a clear demonstration of, of his behavior, and he was an unbeliever. So it's just, you know, I think it's that they gain that there's hope. And that faith is one of the ways to that. Not all of it, but it's part of it, for sure. Well, we

Greg Voisen
do we have had several authors on here that you were talking about the book open to a certain page and bookmarked and her glasses and call us signs and symbols, you know, for me, it's always been and my people, my listeners understand this, you know, I see 1111 All the time, or 111, right, one, so you go to a numerologist. And so what does that? What does that mean for you? And it's about a rebirth and awakening, right? And I've noticed this in my car on my phones, or my whatever, for longest time, it just seems to be that I see it for some reason. I'm looking over it just like you saw your grandmother with a bookmark to 1031. And the page mark on the book. There are signs if you're awake. God has put them there. Right? You may look up at a sign and see something that says stop. And you're, you say thankful you did because if you had proceeded you may have been in an accident, right? All these things that are working on behalf and you say one of the themes of the book is divine intervention. This is where we're going with this. Can you share a personal experience or story where you felt that God intervened in your life? I mean, you've got many in there, but let's just let's just pick out one of the one of the

Craig Thayer
more I'm already getting chills because it just it was I do medical mission trips, I go to Honduras. We did one trip to a big hospital. Normally it's an outpatient like surgery center or plastic surgeon's office type thing. Bullying is seizure. But this one was at a hospital, the Honduras had just fired half of all their health care givers. And these people, so they volunteered their time to be there for 21 surgeries, that I found out what they were literally the day before. But I have to pack all my suture and all those things. And guess because I didn't have a list of what that was going to be that I did have a list the day before. But then that actually morphed the day we were there to a different list. So you got to be really flexible on these trips. But the very first case was a laparoscopic gallbladder removal and this lady. And I had someone that comes with me on the trip all the time, Jason Guzman, who was an EMT, and he would scrub in when we're doing the small procedures at the surgery center like thing in coupon. But this one was big. And there was a CIRCULATING NURSE. They were trained like all the nurses we have, they were watching us. And I realized he can assist me on these cases. And I don't normally ask, you know who's going to come on the trip? And who's going to be with me that day in the operating room. But there's this lady named Leah, and I look at her. And we walk outside and I say, what do you do? And she says, Well, I'm a cardiovascular Scribners. I almost fell over because I'm like that saved that trip. If we would have gone back in and Jason would have had to set up all the instruments, the sterile fields, we would have gone home, we would have been kicked out of the operating room. She's done this a million times. I looked at her and I said thank you God because I didn't ask for you. You're here. And you know how to do this. And I need you I'm part of a team I can't do I can't be a quarterback without someone catching the ball or blocking for me so it'll get blindsided. She began to cry because she's never been treated that way. She's been treated with you know, it said pre Madonna cardiovascular surgeons that just treat her like no junk. So that's the first thing so then we go in we she sets up. We're going to do a laparoscopic procedure. We'll old school I began my training was half open half, half laparoscopic, so perfect time to be in residency. And, but it was old school. So they have this cotton sock that goes over the cord to the light in the in the in the camera. So it's sterile sock. But the inside is not the suction system was the same appliance that I would use back in America. But it was hooked to a Shopback which was extremely loud. Oh, wow. TV was not a 35 inch HD color TV but a 13 inch color T and then the Connery was similar to what we would use. So all these things had to work. And then you have an insulator that was probably the first generation that showed you had flow, it gave you a pressure of the of the belly that you're you've got to get the flow going into with co2. This was the miracle or the real miracle that procedure. I look at it, I get to a point where I've got all those things working the suction the Katari. But I need 15 millimeters of mercury pressure in the belly, it stops at 12. I look at the insulator and it's saying that we're out of gas. I look at the gigantic co2 tank, and it says zero. And I'm like I literally I just leaned over prayed to myself, I look up it's at 15. And I think okay, I've got a backup plan, I can do an open like I was trained the first half of my residency, if I have to. And so literally, I operated on her for an hour and a half because she had the worst cirrhotic liver from hepatitis virus. And portal hypertension. So every little vein was gigantic, it was three times its normal size. So bleeding was a risk. And there was a surgeon that was there from Honduras who wanted to see how this was done. I didn't know his level of training, he looked really young. I clearly learned that he's never done one because they just didn't know how to set all this up. And so it was a perfect case for me to teach him how to get out of all these critical situations. You get into a vein grabbing colorize it and then getting the momentum which is this kind of fatty apron that hangs off of the colon that just wraps around things that are inflamed. It's kind of our watchdog of the abdomen and I had to suck fluid out I would read something clear because you just go slow so you don't interest things. And somehow I still had co2 and I still had the pressure and literally so at the end of the case, descriptor Just comes over and says, I don't know how you did this. It's an empty tank. And I even asked, Do we have another tank? At the very beginning? They said, No, we do not have another one. So. So I got done after an hour and a half, and I looked around at the clock behind me. And it stopped at there's a number seven o'clock, seven after on the seventh day of the month.

Greg Voisen
There you go. There's divine intervention was with me the whole time. Yeah, that is a great story. And you know, you have so many stories like that in the book. And one of the things you stress, Craig is the importance of community and our relationship to faith, you know, because your journey has really been about I don't want to call calling on this, like you did God, calling on faith, to get you through obstacles, challenges, things in your life. And you speak with the listeners about why it's important for people to connect with others in their spiritual journey. Because, you know, okay, you're, you're a man who believes in God, you're a man that prays to God, you're a man that follows the Bible. You're Christian, right? Not everybody listening is right. But at the same time, we all have many people have some faith. Maybe, maybe they're Muslim, maybe they're Jews. Maybe they're whatever they are. But the point is, he said, we're all interconnected. Right? And you believe that this community of interconnection, because you're not bias toward just this one thing, you're just saying, Have faith don't doubt. Right. So what would you tell people about their spiritual journey and how this can kind of reawaken them? Yeah, I

Craig Thayer
think, you know, you've commented on community, I think COVID was a huge demonstration and risk benefit of not having community of sheltering in right. So women between the ages of 23 to 45, had a sixfold increase in suicide, and depression. You know, mental illness is hugely expanded in America, from sheltering and the kids in school, or at least a year behind in math in a year and a half in English, and their social skills are probably two years behind. So it doesn't help us not to gather. So that said, I mean that, you know, Christian wise iron sharpens iron. So when I have questions, or I'm not behaving, I start to judge people, which is what Christians are not supposed to do. And they do some do. I mean, you see fights amongst Christians now. So but, you know, gathering gives you support, it gives you the ability to pray for each other, that last chapter with Ralph, I mean, my getting out a knee and putting my hand on his leg and praying for him, was profound to him. And it walked him to the door for him to make a choice. You know, and in biblically, you know, it's interesting. So, Bibles is a good book, just to study for an interest if you don't have faith. You know, Jesus talks about us being the body of, of, you know, the church, that he's the head, and we're organs. And so the important point about that, which is that we are all the same, you know, we're equal, but not all, not all, we're all equal. But that's similar sometimes. Because, you know, I mean, we may be a kidney, or an eye for doing the body analogy, that's in the Bible. But, you know, we can't function with without one of those things. So we're each important to each other, like you said, there's a relationship, whether it's spiritually or connected in other ways.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, I mean, I think if you're, we were talking earlier about, you know, what's going on in our world and the battlefields, you know, just you know, in Ukraine, well, we don't know if the person next to us is Christian or whatever. But, you know, if some bomb goes off, and we need to help the follow up guy next to us, we're certainly not going to say what's your religion, right? But what I am going to say is that, in in times of struggle, people go to doubting their faith. And I want to address this because that in it all throughout history, people have gone through these heavy uncertain times and uncertainty about their life and where it's going and all the change. And obviously, we're kind of programmed, most human beings the species is programmed not to want to change. Alright, there's resistance to change. Logic Yeah, it is it is who we are, you know, it's like the watchman's rattle. We almost wait until something catastrophic happens before we're actually going to make the change. So call it global warming, call it whatever you want environmentalism and things, the food famines that we're having in certain parts in Sudan and other areas, right? It's a challenge, right? The war in Ukraine, what would you say to somebody who's out there looking at all of this, and maybe doubting just doubting their faith?

Craig Thayer
I think I think everybody faces down. I mean, I do I do now, I mean, who am I, to be on this platform to be speaking here today? You know, I cheat because I have this title. And my let the read some poll of, you know, just having the MD after your name, or do gives you this pedestal and six to a much higher trust in what we say. So I'm not going to abuse that. So. But yeah, I think I think we all phased out. And they'll, especially in trials, like you said, so what I have found that works for me is that if the fights bigger than I am, that I've got to turn to something I can, I can immediately and quickly and fix the things that I can, but the things that I can't, aren't in my control. So go to someone that you think is right for yourself, pray for, you know, pray for other people, you know, one of the best anxiety, which probably stems from doubt when those people are feeling that thing to do is just pray for somebody, serve somebody do something for somebody else, it takes your mind off yourself. So

Greg Voisen
you know, sometimes I would think, as a surgeon, you know, when you look at triage, and I don't know if you've been in any of those triage situations, but I would think you have been, now you've got to make a decision. Right? And one of the decisions you're making is for many people between life and death, who are the ones that we can save? And who are the ones that we can't save? And I know that's a hard one for people. It's a hard one, because you're I don't think you're doubting God, but you're actually hoping God is we're working through you to make the decision. You know, who's to say it was that person's time and I couldn't spend time trying to fix them to do that, because I had somebody who was less mangled. And I spent time with them, because I thought I could save them. Right? Does that weigh on you as a surgeon? Or do you just go to God and ask for support? Well,

Craig Thayer
here's the way I work. So my prayer for myself is please God give me the wisdom to do. So what I need to do quickly, the fortitude to carry it out, which just it also means not just the personal strength, but the physical strength, because you may be I've operated for 36 hours before, straight with no break. So and then the hands to do it. So I think as a surgeon, there's a point at which you have to disconnect. I think the times I've had to do that the most we're in this one's in the book, six year old, in a motor vehicle collision, and you just have to clear the mechanism and do what you're trained to do. And then, but then when you pull that drape back, and it's no longer just skin protruding through a paper drape, you break down, you know, and I was asked that question, actually, when I was a medical student, by Dr. fry eggs are now in pancreatic surgeon. And he said his first question out of the box, when I said I want to be a general surgeon was, what are you going to do when you lose a patient? And my answer was, Well, no, the best I did the best I could do on that day that I could do. And that's all you can do is just do your best. Yeah. And then, like I said, the parts that are in your hands, you know, pray to God that that's his will and what his goal will be the will so and then take solace in that wasn't you did all you could do, and this is the way it turned out. And so this was bigger than me. Well, in

Greg Voisen
in there's certain beliefs and philosophies about, you know, hey, look, it's been talked about eons when it's your time, it's your time. Who are we to say that that person who came in that's all that came in? It wasn't time for that soul to exit. That they'd come here to do what they were supposed to have done. And they did it in that short six yours or that short? You know, women who have babies that don't live very long at all right? We don't know. And I think if we start, second guessing that's a challenge. And you talk about the role of prayer is something you speak about in the book, and remind listeners who maybe are into different practices. Don't call it contemplation, call it meaningful prayer or contemplation, practice, but to deepen your connection to some higher spirit or God, right? What role has that played for you? And when have you found it the most helpful and meaningful in your own life? Obviously, you pray before you go into surgery, and then you probably pray after you go out of surgery. So what would you tell people who are listening today who don't have a regular practice of prayer, or contemplation or anything, they just believe when you die? You die. That's it. I'm done. You know, the whole day when I was a kid, is you and I can't be that far different from age. It used to be the worms crawl in the worms crawl out. Worms crawl up your Pentacles. Now, it's a little brevity here. Do you remember that old one? Yeah, that's an old one. And I don't believe that, but I do believe there's a lot of people that walk around that do believe that.

Craig Thayer
Right? And that's okay. That's, that's why God gave us you know, free will. Right. So there's no free will in the Bible. It's just that the actions in what's been a lot of the Bible story. So it's like, we have the choice. I remember, man, this is a different subject, but actually goes with prayer. So I was at a small, small group, Bible study. And Dave, I'll call him was raised Jewish. And he had this epiphany that, oh, my gosh, I can I can talk to God through prayer. I mean, he's just the, the Jewish religion doesn't really know that, per se. So that's what's cool about learning other religions. I mean, half of what we read is, maybe not even that, but Old Testament, you know, the first verse books of the of the Bible. So it's good to get outside that stuff and listen to people but and then, for me prayer, or whether you're meditating? No, and I think the science supports this, the whole alpha beta waves of the brain. And first thing in the morning, when you're not distracted by social media, your phone, the kids trying to get you to make lunches for school, or driving or whatever, find the quiet time. And then you can internally you know, examine yourself and pray, and communicate, and then you can listen better and hear better if you get messages back. Right. So people in the Bible, have the Holy Spirit, people of faith have the Holy Spirit. From that Holy Spirit. People have gifts. And so, you know, that's Jesus. When we got to Georgia here, we were looking for a church and we went to a Pentecostal church and okay, I'm not used to that I'm used to, I mean, reading has a big Pentecostal church. And they've kind of come under a lot of scrutiny, right? But it's biblical mean, the gift of tongues, the gift of prophecy, healing, all those things that are in the Bible. So they exist. It's just how do you get to those things, and they're a gift from the Holy Spirit. So

Greg Voisen
I think for the listeners, though, you know, Craig, you pray, but it's not one directional. You're asking for it to be reciprocated to come back. Right. Right. And I think when people don't receive the message, that's when doubt comes in. It's like, Well, is there a God up there? Is he listening? I'm not hearing, I'm not getting a response. I'm not getting whatever you want to call it intuitive hit. I didn't get anything. But you have to move beyond that. You have to keep the practice. Because as I think any Christian would say it's about your faith to continue that until you do hear the words of God. Right. Right, right. Because it's not like he, if it is, let's say, he she, what we're gonna refer to it is this. This I know, you know, when I was a kid, it was Now I lay me down to sleep. You know, that was my prayer on the side of my bed. I was on my knees before I got in bed every night, right? But I'm not certain I always heard anything back. Right? It always seemed one directional at a time you start to question that you're like, Well, geez, why am I saying this prayer every night, you know, as a kid? Right? So what would you do have? What would you tell people out there that are, that are doing that, and, and maybe not getting the message back?

Craig Thayer
Here's what I would say. So faith, faith is a verb, it's an action, right? So and, and if, if you want to feel that spirit, be in line in a car, or line in the in the store, have a Starbucks and buy the coffee for the person behind you. Don't, don't. I mean, it'd be fun to watch them, but you don't have to. But just you get this warmth in your body. So and then just give them a little prayer, Hey, have a great day, please do whatever you want to say something positive, some kind?

Greg Voisen
Well, that's, that's a great, I love what you just said, you know, pay it forward. You know, in other words, like, go pay somebody's toll at the toll road, or, you know, pay for someone for a cup of coffee, or buy them a meal, or whatever it might be. Those are small, insignificant things, but make you feel good because of compassion. And I think compassion, we know, because there's been tons of studies done in all the various universities on the oxytocin that are released as a result of being compassionate. We know when we give, period give, that's important. And that brings me to forgiveness. A lot of people hold grudges. You know, it's like, oh, that person did that to me, I can very, I'm never gonna forgive them. Right. And the only person we know Greg, it's hurting is the person who's holding the grudge. But you and I know that. But how can you help people practice forgiveness in their daily lives? And what are some of the benefits you've gotten as a result of your compassion and forgiveness for others.

Craig Thayer
So here's my analogy of forgiveness, and hurt and pain. So let's just say you have a really big heart. So let's say it's a stone and you're carrying a backpack and you put that stone in your backpack, you're now carrying that weight, it's maybe it was stolen, it's not that bad. You could put the more things you go through life, the more hurt the more stones you carry, the bigger that backpack gets. And eventually, at some point, it's going to be unmanageable. So the key is you need to get that backpack off stone by stone. So pick the smallest, you know, and just forgive whatever that hurt is. And pick that stone out. Even though it's a small, insignificant weight, it may have been the straw that broke the camel's back, and now you can be more functional are going to hate and that was good, I'm gonna do it again, with this stone and that stone, and then get them all out of there. And I think the way to do that is empathy. So my dad would call it the three step rule. So let's say I'm standing in front of you, and I make a very insulting comment, the first thing the person wants to do is just swing at me. Right? So get physical and violent and attack. But let's say that person were to take one step back, though, the first step was just to swing, the second step is to take a step back and go, Okay, why do I, why did I feel that way that I got so angry that I wanted to hurt somebody. And then the third step is to go. Okay, why did that person say that to me to make me so angry? So what are they going through? That they are trying to hurt me? When you can get to that empathic state? Then, you know, you're going to hear something that you didn't know, oh, okay, that makes more sense. And it's going to take away that hurt. Like, I mean, there's a lot of people I remember going to some weekend retreat, or the living was the name of it. And there was an ER group, like five people that all had for 20 years, this misunderstanding about what really went on and when it was discussed in an open forum and for supporting other people, they the confusion and the lack of knowledge was dissipated in the whole thing disappeared, like, Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, that's why that that makes more sense. So, you know, I think being an empath or just trying to put yourself in other people's shoes helps a lot. Yeah. And

Greg Voisen
as the, as you said, that example that she is about the surgical team or whatever created clarity. You know, I think a lot of the misunderstanding comes about what somebody says or doesn't say, and then it becomes implied and then you have this. You have a feeling of regret. No matter what it was, you know, you may have said something wrong yourself. And somebody took it wrong. Like it does happen frequently in our communications as human beings. And the key there is to have an open dialogue and be open to doing that to clear, clear the air. I know when I was getting my degree in spiritual psychology, people we were having challenges with, and I repeat this a lot is that, you know, I would journal and I wouldn't read what I wrote in the journal and I burned the journal. And then what I would do is I keep a picture of the person that I was being challenged by the communication on my desk, and I would send a prayer to them twice a day, once in the morning and once at night. And you'd be surprised how the small act of keeping a picture of somebody who you're being challenged by in front of you and looking at him and sending him a prayer of kindness or whatever, how that healed you. Right? Really simple little step. You know, you talked about living in the present moment. You know, that's very much a Buddhist concept. But I think that's a concept from a lot of faiths to live in the present moment. Eckhart Tolle is probably one of the most prolific writers on that idea. What ideas do you have for helping listeners cultivate mindfulness and living in the present moment? Because as a surgeon, every time you walk into the surgery room, you know, you're literally have to stay present. Right? You can't, you can't let a distraction of a noise or something distract you. You literally have to be totally focused.

Craig Thayer
Totally. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's interesting. A lot of noise to my brain, makes me not able to hear well. So people are talking about when I'm in the or I'm listening to the EKG, the blood, the heart rate, the pulse ox has a tone to it, not only a tone, but a higher pitch. If it's, you know, you becoming less oxygenated. Whether the SEC ologists is moving around what's going on up there? What? So I'm in tune with the whole room, the scrub nurse, what they're doing the circulator. Um, yeah, that's pretty profound. But um,

Greg Voisen
what about the surgery centers where you see them on TV, and they've got the surgeons and they're playing a boombox with music?

Is that really real? Or is that

Craig Thayer
oh, that's real. That's real. Yeah. So but the surgeon doesn't have any choice. I'm scrubbed in so.

So you get to pick the music. So maybe you're gonna listen to Mozart, or maybe,

Craig Thayer
or actually, one patient I did in residency that was under Local, and she was Native American. And so she wanted her cultural music. So it was this bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, the whole time, and I felt like, you know, I'd take the knife and it felt like a tomahawk. And it was, it is it.

Greg Voisen
You know, I have seen so many reenactments or shows where, you know, the surgeons, they'll, they'll, they'll pray. And then they'll turn on the music after they pray. And it always it didn't surprise me because I think most of that music can be quite calming, if you're choosing to write music, and you have the right people in the room with you that are okay with. All right, we're gonna play jazz today, but it's gonna be light jazz, right. But I do believe that is something that can help you get focus if you're okay with it. I know you said, you were ADHD. And I know sometimes when somebody is ADHD, music can either have a really positive effect, or it can have the opposite effect, which is a distraction. And I assume you've learned how to deal with all of that. Yes. Yeah. Well, like your book is filled with great stories. It's filled with advice for the readers. This is the book everybody saved. We're going to have this book up on a link to Amazon. We're also going to have a link to Craig's website. But what do you hope the readers are going to take away from say, and what advice would you have for someone who is I don't want to call beginning their spiritual journey. How about exploring the various ways that they could actually bring more spirituality into their life? Because I think it what happens is it gets inserted Craig, and then maybe it leaves and then it comes back in again. And it leaves it's kind of like Joseph Campbell's the hero's journey. Right. So most of us are living that hero's journey. We're going out on a quest. A bad guy comes along we, we have to learn how to deal with it. And somebody comes along and saves us in the end and you get it. Right. That story has been told many times, but so what would you tell people right now that are on that kind of spiritual quest?

Craig Thayer
Right? So I mean, I would say, I think the books can assure you that life is short. There are there are stories in the book that, you know, one of them's Jason and time. So it's specifically about time, which I think is our, our greatest gift, right? So you can't get time back. So and then just that there are miracles in your life look for them, then then that improves your spirituality because then you know, there's a higher power. And it gives you hope, right? So, the other part of the book, I'm hoping people get his that hope, that we're all you know, people that believe we unity, so that we're not fighting. You know, I think back to my college days of the late nights hanging with a bunch of other students and talking about atom bombs and all sorts of social issues, and no one judging, you know, we just spoke our minds and, and listen to each other. And then and then I think the practicality you know, faith being a verb. So getting out there and serving people, you know, just find your gifts, your God given gifts, or firepower gifts, some talent, that, that you're, you're great at, make that a purpose, or and then a passion and, you know, inspiration and motivation is short passions or longer. And then and then use those to better yourself better mankind, you know, personal growth. So

Greg Voisen
well, I love what you said in our pre interview about your son's been in Boy Scouts. And I'm going to take this as an opportunity to talk just a tad about compassionate communications. And the work that we're doing with the homeless. You know, you were talking about how the boy scouts had a program that went out when your sons went out and you bagged up food. Ziploc bags, yep. And you went out to give food away. And I think the good lessons that young teenagers learn or even preteen, by doing something like that, is it starts to actually get them to understand the good feelings that occur from that kind of activity. It is not all about me, me, me, me, you know, my cell phone, my iPad, my there's my that. It's about we and how we can make a difference. And I see that in everything that you say and everything you do in this book. You know, this is really a book for people that are on the journey from the eye to the week. It's for those people that want to wake up and want to share their gifts and talents with the world. The people like Craig, who have helped and served 1000s of people heal. And in the process, as you can see, Craig has healed as a human being. And what I would invite all my listeners to do is pick up a copy of this book. Go to Craig there, we'll have it.net to learn more about Craig. There’sre's also a couple of QR codes in the front of the book that go to videos. And so I would encourage you to pick this up right on I forget what page they're on crack but they're right in the front of the book. And it's a great opportunity. It's the email address for Craig is Craig at for Thayers thay e r s.com. And you can also one of those links go to goes to his Facebook page as well. So Craig, Blessings to you. Thank you so much for being on inside personal growth and sharing your experiences as a surgeon but also your experiences in your connectivity with spirit God faith to help others realize that there is hope. Right, there is lots of hope. Get down don't get depressed.

Craig Thayer
Yeah. Thank you for having me. It's just a blessing that I'm here to share what I seen know and believe in. People have questions, you know, email me.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, definitely. Get in touch with them. Craig, thank you so much.

Craig Thayer
Thank you. It's been an honor.