Welcome back to another episode of Inside personal growth. This is Greg voisen, and everybody knows me, John on the other side of the screen here. And for those of you who are watching this on YouTube, for those of you who aren't, is John Baldoni, and John's been on the show before. And the book we're going to be talking about today, and I'm going to ask him to hold it up, is a book called grace under pressure. And the subtitle of that, John

is leading through change and crisis. So

all right, and believe me, we all have fallen into change management projects, which a lot of them, they don't go much of anywhere, because, literally, they, they kind of get stomped out, but I'm going to let them know a tad bit about you, John from your buyout, your website. For all of my listeners want to know more, go to John Baldoni, and that's J O, H n, b, a, l, D, o n, i.com there. You can learn more about his speaking, his coachings, his books, and you can contact him, and you can get in touch with him. You also can see some of his videos up on YouTube. He's very active. So John is an internationally recognized keynote speaker. He's the author of 16 books which have been translated into 10 languages. He just certified master corporate executive coach who works with senior leaders in corporate nonprofit and university environments. He provides performance based coaching and leads positive behavioral change, enabling individuals to lead more professionally with greater grace under pressure, John focuses on what it takes to lead with compassion, commitment and courage. He said, also provides executive advisories, advisory services related to vision, strategy, change, communications and people development. As I said, this is 16 books. It's also the author and the host of two online leadership courses, leading through change in crisis and leading with resilience and grace for methods of leaders. And John's leadership resource website is again at John baldoni.com Well, John, pleasure having you back again to grace our channel with this. You have your own podcast, and people can look for him out there as well. But tell us a little bit about you know you've written, is it three books now about grace, yes, and this, this is the third, and I'm always interested as to why, personally, you believe race, both in your personal life and professional life, as you've coached people, has been such a valuable tool.

Well, thank you.

Yes, grace under pressure is my third book on the topic. The first top the first book was called grace, a leader's guide to a better us. The second book was a series of reflections based on more my first experiment into poetry called grace notes about things that leaders could do in in times of crisis. And I call it leading an upside down world. This new book, grace under pressure, leading through change in crisis, is about an expanded view of grace, and as we know the word grace under pressure, most of us have heard that, and I have discovered that it came from a phrase that Hemingway used in a letter to Dorothy Parker, who was a fellow writer and active writer and a member of the Algonquin group in New York and all that. And John Kennedy's speechwriter, Ted Sorensen, discovered that letter when he was putting together the book for John Kennedy called profiles and courage. And what they both meant by the phrase grace under pressure is basically in our parlance, Greg keeping it together when the heat's on. And, yeah,

that's a good way to put it, keeping it together when the heat's on. Many people lose it.

Well, it's a very human reaction, you know, when things get stressful, you know, I mean, you're in based in San Diego, so I know, you know a lot of military folks, and they will tell you, you can tell a good commander, because when the heat's on, the his or her voice goes down and they speak more slowly. So that's the way they kind of keep it together. So

that's good. Now, you know, in the PROLOG highlights that good leaders do you say do three things during a crisis, you know? So hey, look in There's levels of intensity of crisis, and it depends on how you look at it. And you say, take care of their people themselves and prepare for the future. So those are the three things, all right, so I'll repeat it, take care of their people themselves and prepare for the future. Can you discuss the challenges leaders face balancing these three priorities. Because in our world, which is moving very quickly and rapidly, I think people are attempting to figure out ways to keep up, but they're also feeling very uncertain. What how would you help them?

Well, I say the first thing is to take care of your people, because you're not going to grow the organization. You're not going to survive if people are distracted and unfocused. And so my view of grace, and it's evolved over time, and it becomes quite comprehensive, and it's it's a matter of courage, it's candor, it's compassion, and then, most importantly, it's connection. And what connection builds is community. And so if we think of the idea of community, we're bonded together working toward a universal purpose. I mean a common purpose with a vision that that is our lodestone. And then we have our mission, which is what we do, and we have our values that hold us together. Community is how we connect to one another. Now that doesn't mean that we all think or act alike, and gosh, we hope we don't, because that's a form of group thinking. That's how we really get in trouble. If everybody, Hey, you agree with me, I agree with you, so we must be right. Well, maybe not so, so take care of your people. Demonstrate that you care about them. Be with compassionate it can it's the one on one connection. A good colleague of mine, Ron Carucci, talks about presence, and he says presence is something that is felt. And so when the leader is there, giving of themselves, people feel that people know that he or she's the real deal. It's kind of like, if you'll allow this, uh, metaphor, you know when dogs sense when someone is afraid of them and they get skittish. So the dog same with people. If we know people are being insincere with us, we don't get skittish, but we don't believe them, and so you need to be have that genuine connection to that. The next thing is to take care of yourself and to be very candid. I think that's what leaders do the weakest job of. And it's not because they're because they're outward focused. That's the nature of leadership in so many ways. So they short themselves, and in doing so, they don't give themselves the time to regrow and generate and things like that. And then the third thing is more the metaphor the business equation, prepare for the future. Okay, what are we going to do next? And that shouldn't be a solo exercise. It should be bringing people together. Excuse me for common purpose.

So that being said, those are the three things that somebody could do during a crisis, especially a leader. And I get that, you know, those are so important. Do you have a particular story or client John, where you helped coach an executive team through a crisis situation and help them get to the other side? And if so, what were the common characteristics and thoughts and perceptions that these people had during this crisis? Well, I've

worked with a lot of organizations. They're going through change and to a degree, crisis, and what I noticed is that those that survive trust their leader because the leader has given them a reason to trust him or her. They know that they have their back, the leader has their back, and when that occurs, they want to pull together, and they will do what they can within their in a framework to make things happen so and then it's also the signals that the leader sends out. I do know from, you know, the the financial crisis of 2008 you know, some people really lost it, and they, you know, got all six ways to Wednesday on that. And that sends a dark signal to the organization. I do remember a situation coming in when I was working with an organization that was about, there was, there was a rumor that there was going to be a merger, and so we, you know, the senior person came into the room and talked about what was happening, and the way he addressed it, he said, You know, we've all been through different changes. None of us know exactly what's going to happen next week or whatever, but I want you to know I'm there for you, and if you want me to come and talk to your people, these were a group of managers, he said, let me know. I'll come in and talk, and I'll take all the questions. So it's a simple act. It's being out there, and that's a sense of authenticity. It's sincerity, putting yourself on the line so people know that you care. And it's that connection,

I think it's so important. It is usually the simple little things that can make a huge difference, like being there for somebody and not shutting your door and really clearly listening and having inclusion and all these little things that add up to make a big difference, because people feel they're being heard and understood. They feel like you're compassionate and you are, because those are the kind of things that make a compassionate person. So you know, you suggest the importance of being present. Now, this is a good one, and that's what I just talked about when I said that. How can mindfulness practices help leaders maintain the focus under pressure? And can you share some techniques or practices that you've helped implement that have been effective in helping people stay present and centered during stressful situations? I mean, I remember cin Delaney. Look at, I have this on my desk. It's here every day, all the time. John, be here now and send Delaney, which was a leadership training company used to basically, they were big, and that's one of their statements from Mr. Delaney, I think it was, I can't remember who, yeah,

well, it is mindfulness at its core. Greg, as you know, and all the many guests you've had who have spoken about it, it's pretty simple. Doing it is the challenge, and so meaningfulness be in the moment. I bifurcated a bit when as individuals, being in the moment means being aware of who you are, what you can do and your situation, and taking things in. You can do that through breathing techniques. Meditation is a great discipline for it. Many people find it in exercise or yoga, those types of things. Then there's a situation. I call it leadership mindfulness, if you will. It's, it's what the military would call situation awareness, what's going on at the time. And there's a wonderful mantra that I have adopted that it was in a book called Hope is not a method. It came out about 30 years ago, and in it a quote. It was by military gentleman and a general whose name escapes me, but the model came from Colonel Hal Moore, who was commanded us forces in the I drank Valley in Vietnam in 1965 and they encountered a severe firefight, and during the time they simply was since written up as a book, we were soldiers once and young by Joe Galloway, but he profiled talked about how Colonel Moore, at times, was seen to quote, they were in a 36 hour firefight. At times, seemed to withdraw from the action. And what he was doing is going through this mantra, what's happening, what's not happening, and what do I need to do to influence the action? So, what's happening, what's not happening, what do I need to do to change things? And so that's a good mantra that I have written about, but I've also taught it a lot. It is a form of mindfulness, so you can pretty much understand what's going on. Okay, what's not going on requires some thinking, and then what do we do next? Is it me that must do something, or is it members of my team that have to get involved, or is it a collaborative thing? Generally, it's a collaborative thing, but it's thinking through so what's happening not happening, and what do we do to change the outcome? Very

good points. I think that's worth the whole podcast, because if people can get into a mindfulness practice and look at it that way with those three simple questions as a mantra, they literally can then work through the crisis, the situation, the issues now you explore in this book, the emphasis and the need for innovation. Now everybody's trying to innovate, and it is look, if you I think, if you don't have a separate team that innovates, the everything gets mixed up. And I'll just state that, because there has to be a team that's dedicated to that. And I know some companies are too small to have a dedicated team, but the reality is, then, at least bring them aside someplace and give them an opportunity to be able to do that. How can leaders foster a culture of innovation that prepares their organization, in your estimation, for future challenges? Right? Because this is how you can meet some of those challenges. You also can oftentimes innovate your way out of it. And as Rita McGrath said, it also helps you see around the corners, because you're looking to the future and you want to bring it back to the present, you got to say, Well, how do I connect the dots? Right?

Well, you won't go wrong following Rita McGrath, Rita McGrath's advice. So I think let me tell the first thing you do, you don't get up in front of the organization, pound the table and say, We need to be more innovative. The opposite, which is a friend and person I've learned a great deal from and profiled in some of my writing called Rich. His name is Rich Sheridan, the founder of Menlo innovations, which is a software development company and rich talks about, if you want people to innovate, you have to drive fear out of the organization. Part of that is psychological safety, making it that people making it safe for people to feel that they can belong, contribute, voice their ideas, disagree with one another, all of those kinds of things. So also celebrate the concept of creativity. I like to think of innovation as very often it's we like to think of it as the big breakthrough. Well, big breakthroughs really aren't all that common if you look at history of business, but small breakthroughs happen 1000 times a day around the world. So it's processes improvement. It's doing things with less, taking out steps, adding things, bringing in new people. It's, it's a it's an open innovation begins with the creativity, but it's an openness to experiment, and it's that openness for leaders to listen. Okay, and listen, listen, listen, at the same time, you have to be discriminate. So if I come to you with an idea, a clever idea, that I might have, Greg and you're my boss, I You're obligated, I would say to listen to me. You are not obligated to inch and to enact my idea, which might be wacko, but on the other hand, you want to make it safe for me to keep thinking and to be participatory and to collaborate and to put, you know, create an organization where one plus one equals 357, whatever. You know, we grow exponentially. So I think innovation begins with a spirit and celebration of creativity, but also that sense of different people. I mean, you know, surround yourself with people who think differently from you. And when we do that, you know, we think, Oh, geez, I never kind of thought of that, that perspective, but that might be an avenue. So those are the kinds of things I would promote. Greg,

it's a it's I think that you and I would think that most companies, you know, when you're innovating, it's so important to give people, as you said, I'm going to repeat this. You have to remove the fear within the organization or within the group that's there. You have to give them space, meaning you can't demand immediate innovation, because it takes time to create something, including a solution. And you have to give them time to think, as you said, made me thinking process. I love that. Franklin Covey, Stephen Covey, used to give signs to all of his people and put it on the door, put, I'm thinking, you could stick it out there. So it's not that I'm doing. I'm thinking. A lot of organizations, they don't give people time to think, you know, it's just do, do, do we've got to get this done. And I think it's so important that we provide that kind of time, that space for that and that leads me to this, you know, in preparing for the future, you mentioned the importance of listening before deciding, how can leaders ensure they are truly listening to their teams and stakeholders, especially when quick decisions are necessary. Well,

when quick decisions, you sort of can pull the room and get ideas that way. And I'm talking about sort of a crisis situation, for example, if you're an IT manager and the system goes down, you don't have a lot of time to really, you know, do the issues, but you can go through, what do we do? What do we do? What should we do? Check the boxes kind of thing. So those are crisis moments, and I when we're thinking about a big change or things to do, that's where you want to be deliberative, and that's where the leader needs to get out of the bubble, both organizationally and intra organizationally and extra organizationally in the sense of, talk to different people, embrace people in the sense of, what are your ideas? Talk to all levels of the organization and insist that your managers do that same kind of thing and also mix and mingle outside of the organization. You know, I think it was Tom Peters who said something decades ago about about conferences. And he said, you know, you can learn if you, if you're in the plumbing supply business, and you go to a plumbing supply conference, you're all on the same wavelength. But if you're in plumbing supply and you go to a nuclear physics lecture or something, you might learn something completely different that might spark your imagination. So in other words, mix it up, and you we can do that. You know, through how we socialize with others, conferences, we attend all of these things, so we we're exposing ourselves to new ideas. And again, it gets back to the process of inclusion. Look to hire people who are different from ourselves and have different backgrounds, because they will bring a different perspective. We do this generationally. You know, I'm an aging baby boomer and and I don't know what's on the minds of Gen Z, but I would be willing to listen to them on what their perspective is, and we need to do that with all kinds of people. Listen to the voices. What are they telling you? And every idea or every opinion is not valid. It's all deserves to be heard, but we don't have to act on it. But I think from a leader's standpoint, we need to respect the voices in our organization.

Yeah, that's inclusion, and I think that when you include people, at least they feel they're part of helping solve a bigger problem or an issue, they've been heard and you know, I think that's what most people want. They want to be heard and listened to. You know, in your book, you describe grace as the virtue that permits all other virtues, because it is something that touches our hearts as well as our spirit. So I totally concur with that, because when you're at Grace, I'm going to use another word, you're at peace. You've you've really been able to walk through the middle of a tornado and walk out the other side and not have been hurt, but at the same time you're doing it with a strength, there's almost like an energy that comes, and it's comes from a different source. I think it comes from a spiritual source, because that's the only place you can have all these other virtues, right? The ego doesn't generate that. Is a matter of fact, when you're in ego, you're usually just on the opposite side of that. So how can leaders integrate the concept of grace into their overall leadership philosophy? And what impact does this integration, in your estimation, have on its effectiveness? This is your third book on Grace. So obviously you have a really strong belief that if somebody can find peace, find what I call productive harmony. You know, work in a space of being totally harm harmonic. Do it without conflict. Try and do it with ease that it makes everything else in the organization go that much more gracious. Now we know that's a perfect world. It isn't ever going to happen exactly that way, but how would you say this is helping me and every other listener improve our effectiveness and also improve our level of compassion. Great. I

would Excellent question. It's a deep thought, and so I would say the first thing, and I'm I don't know that I've quite said it this way, but first of all, show yourself grace. Give your understand your strengths and your shortcomings, acknowledge that you're not perfect. That's a sense of vulnerability. It's also a sense of humility. And when we in a sense, also we're giving ourselves us a break. Okay, I'm, you know, I'm taking one step forward, and sometimes I slip back once in a while, but I'm committed to moving forward so you're showing yourself some grace. When you do that, you give yourself that permission to treat others as you are treating yourself. And I like your concept of grace being a sense of peace. It is an inner calm, but grace is if we talk about grace under pressure, it's under fire. Take examples of the of the great civil rights leaders of the 1950s and 60s. They went through tremendous turmoil and heat and fire and danger and all of these things. They had an inner sense of peace, but they were operating in what we do, our parlance is conflict zones, so that, but they treated others as they wish to be treated with a sense of goodness and connection. And I think it comes down to reaching out. And I'm glad you touched on compassion, because one of the words we hear a lot is empathy, and empathy is important, and I mean, it's I feel for you, I feel what you're going through. Well, for leaders, that's not enough. They have to put empathy into action, and that's acting with compassion, and that's reaching out to make that positive change in another's life, however you can understanding what your role is, what you can do and and when people see that kind of action, that kind of compassionate, they may be motivated to do the same, but at least you're doing it yourself. I think you know, when it comes to grace, certainly for myself, it's a work in progress, you know? Yeah? So it's always what we're it's some sense of striving,

yeah? Well, John, while you were speaking, I was just so compelled to kind of try and find the best definition I could. I can't say this is the best, but I would say this one is pretty good for our listeners. Divine Grace is the theological term present in many religions. It's been defined as the divine influence, which operates in humans to regenerate and sanctify, to inspire virtuous impulses, to impart strength, to endure trial and resist temptation, and as an individual virtue or excellence of divine origin. I think that's not a bad definition of you know what you could be to be in grace, to actually be inside of grace. Would you say that that maybe hit part of it on the head, at least?

Oh, I think it's it hits the nail on the head. But I would take a step back, and I know people of grace who come from, you know, a faith based background. My mother was very much that way, as my father was too in his own way. He was a family physician. My mother was active in a community and did lots of positive things to make lives better for others, groups of others, including her children, probably failed with me, but it worked out. I would, I would not want to limit it to divine. Those who say that it's a divine I had no argument with that but, but it means that you have to have a higher faith. And I would say that's limiting. I think that we're recognize the own, your own strengths, what you can do if you you know, if it's a higher power for you all, that's wonderful. But don't think that you have to go that way. Trust your own self, what you can do and look to the examples of others who make that positive difference and make a choice for yourself.

I think there's somewhat it can be somewhat of a conundrum between someone being religious or someone being spiritual, or somebody looking at the word grace, and I appreciate you redefining it. But I also think for many of my listeners, they understand the importance of a higher power, whatever it might be. Maybe it's not God, it's maybe it's something else. Maybe it's all it's maybe something that they call something, but they've identified it, or to get in touch with that power. And I think much of this grace comes from when you can be in a state of consciousness that allows you to actually access it, right? So, you know, we look at, we can look at the scientific terms of unconscious, subconscious, conscious and super conscious, right? So the reality is, in what state of consciousness is that coming from? What's certainly not coming from unconscious. It's not coming from probably conscious, but it it can be coming from, you know, people deal with their subconscious all the time when they go to a hypnotherapist to try and figure out what's holding them back, what are the things to get there? So it's those breakthroughs that they can have there. Now look, this book is awesome. Hold it up again so the listeners can see a copy of it. This is the third book, grace under pressure. What do you hope readers are going to take away from the book, John? And how do you envision leaders who were addressing today to sustain their commitments to leading with grace? In other words, you got a lot of advice in this book. I don't know exactly how many pages it is, but you have a lot of advice. You've been there. You've written two other books on it. You would be considered somebody with a wealth of knowledge. What are you going to hope the readers will take away from not only our conversation today, but from your book?

The bottom line, it's a question, it's a sense of connection, reaching one and each other in a truly human way, being there for someone else, and that is the basic that's the element of grace. In other words, and when you're there for others, when crisis strikes, you have that innate sense of, oh, what do I need to do? You don't need to be asked. You act for the good of the whole and your engine, your fuel, becomes this sense of grace. Furthermore, it's not a solo enterprise, per se. When we have connection, genuine connection, what we have is community. And I call me crazy, but I like to think of that organizations can become communities where people feel that they belong, you know, and they want to be there because they it's a good environment. Their friends work there, but their colleagues, they trust them. They're doing good work, and they're, you know, adequately competent. I mean, it's that they're fairly compensated, and they feel the sense of belonging because they're contributing. That comes down to the connection and the sense of community and knowing that you're not in this alone. You know, we all want to work for something greater than ourselves, and that's what community is. And when we have these goals and we're all pulling together, it's a sense of to get your word, a sense of connection, but also a sense of peace, a sense of harmony, you know, and that, hey, we're in this together, and we know the world's not perfect, but we can create a world that works for us, and we'll be active in that world, so we can do our own part. So I think that thinking of grace as elemental in the sense of the courage and the compassion and the connection and community, and also I want to leave on a point of show yourself some grace, because none of us is perfect. We're all working to do the best we can, and you're going to make mistakes. And that doesn't mean you have to quit. It means that, you know, you just try again. And that's where grace, I think, comes in, gives you that boost, if you will. I think that energy, as you described it, Greg, to keep trying.

You hit the nail on the head. And I want to thank you for being on inside personal growth, because you've shared words of wisdom from the book for everybody. We're going to put a link to Amazon to his book. We'll put a link also to the website. The website is John Baldoni, and that's J O, H n, b, a, l, D, o n. I.com there. You can learn more about his speaker, speaking, his workshops, his presentations, his coaching, all that's available at the website. Check him out on YouTube as well. There's a speaker's reel out there that he did not that long ago. So I appreciate you, John. I send you love, compassion and grace. Thanks for a wonderful interview on inside personal growth today. And is there any parting words you have for our listeners. Well,

I want to say thank you to you, Greg, because I know you've been doing this podcast for virtually longer than anyone I know of, and I'm going to say that you've created a community of dedicated listeners who enjoy the programs that you're doing. So you've created a community, and I know you've helped facilitate that community by your own sense of grace, so I'm honored to participate in this grand community with you. So thank you, Greg. So well.

Thank you, John. The energy in me reflects the energy in you. We're like mirrors. So thanks so much for being a great mirror, and thanks so much for bringing your new work and your new book out. Hold it back up one more time so listeners could see it. There it is. Grace under pressure, go out and get yourself a copy. Thanks so much.

John, Thank you.