Greg Voisen
Well, welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. This is Greg Voisen, I'm the host of Inside Personal Growth. And joining me from Glendora, California, just up the road apiece from San Diego here is Chris Fontanella. And Chris is the author of well, actually two new books, but I'm gonna hold up this one, Tune Up Your Career: Tips and Cautions for Peak Performance in the Workplace. He's got another one called Jumpstart Your Career: Ten Tips to Get You Going. You know, Tune Up and Jumpstart. I told Chris, before we went into this, they're both great books. We'll try and weave in a little bit from each of them. Chris, how are you doing today?

Chris Fontanella
Doing great. Greg, thank you so much for having me on the show. I'm looking forward to our conversation.

Greg Voisen
Well, it's always an honor and pleasure. And you know, it's this dynamic world of what I want to call it just employment is a kind of a shifting sands territory always has been, I think it always will be because people's passions change and their purpose changes, and they want to maybe move someplace else and do something different. And especially with the kind of millennial group, we see people that are driven by purpose, and don't want to take jobs no matter what the cost of what the salary is right? And they want to make they want to make a difference in the world. But I'm gonna let my listeners know a bit about you. Chris fontanelle. He is the founder of encore professionals group and we'll put a link to that as well. You can also go to chrisfontanella.com. There you'll see a beautiful website with his books or media about him homepage. But this professional services firm specializes in the identification and placement of Accounting and Finance candidates in temporary and permanent positions. He previously served as division director of Robert Half International, and Client Services Director for resources global professionals. Prior to entering the staffing industry, he spent years studying theology, and preparing for ministry, having received a bachelor's degree from Oral Roberts University and his master's from fuller Theological Seminary. Chris is also the author of Against the Grain: Counterintuitive Ideas on Business and Life, a unique account of the A typical philosophies behind his own success. In the competitive staffing industry. Chris continues to ride staffing services through encore, while he explores the world of writing and publication, well, I don't often get a chance to meet my authors because they come from all over the world. But Chris and I broke bread. And I have to say he is one of the most genuine, nice, sincere individuals I've met. And I'm not just saying that, because he is really a gem of a person. So Chris, thanks for being on insight, personal growth.

Chris Fontanella
Well, thank you so much for such a wonderful introduction. I appreciate that. I am so glad to be here.

Greg Voisen
Well, let's kind of start this off, you know, in the introduction to tune up your career tips and cautions for peak performance in the workplace. You know, you speak about the different parts of the book, you know, in your show that the book highlights, highlights work life. And actually I started this podcast with a true worth work life example of millennial right wanting to have purposeful work. How did your staffing experience contribute to the success of the book, jumpstart your career and tune up your career because you were influenced for years and years and years of placing people in positions, in particular people in CFO kind of positions. And they're not unlike anyone, many of them want to have purpose. They want to be doing something for a reason. And you know, you know you when you weave in the fact that you also have a degree in theology. You know, your life is really unique because there aren't too many people out there putting people in job positions, actually caring about what the spiritual path is for these individuals.

Chris Fontanella
Yeah, I mean, both of the books sort of stem from my 30 year career in the staffing, the staffing world in the staffing industry, and I'm within the industry. I'm somewhat of an anomaly. As mentioned, I mean, I've got a degree and a master's in theology. I spent all my years studying for the ministry. And somewhere along the way, I decided to shift gears and to, you know, enter into a different sort of career and I sort of happened into the staffing world. And you're right, I think what I'm trying to do is help people find what their calling is. That thing that makes them tick, and then sort of help them understand that you can have a career along those lines. And there are certain things you can do to sort of help you get there, map, map out your map out where you want to go with your career, put, put both hands on the steering wheel of your career and take it where you want to go. And any success that the books are having, I think, is in maybe in recognition of those 30 years in the business of helping people find jobs, and they're seeing that some of the material I'm writing is beneficial and relevant.

Greg Voisen
Well, let me ask you this, do you when you get a new person that comes in through encore, and you do your assessment, you speak with them? How frequently are you looking at a values alignment? In other words, the values the person has with the values that the company holds, right, so that there is this symbiotic relationship between what it is I hold near and dear to my heart? And what a I, the people that I'm working for?

Chris Fontanella
Right, right, yeah, there's a real balance that you need to strike between the candidate having the right technical skills for a job, obviously, that's important there, they're being hired to do a certain task or certain duties, and they have to have the skills to do that. But I've always found it's more important and in a sense, to align those soft skills, right, like to align an individual with the culture of a company in the spirit of a company. And so I have over the years, I found that probably my best placements within organizations are when I've really taken the time and done the due diligence to make sure that what I hear from this candidate about what they want what's driving them from a career standpoint, that I'm matching that up properly to the type of job I put them into.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, and I think that's so important. And I think as people switch careers or change, or they're moving from one job, or they got laid off, there's this unsettling kind of uncertainty, right? Yeah. I don't think there can be any more of maybe a confusing time of when maybe someone is laid off, and then asked to find somebody like you to go find another position. One unless they got some severance pay. They're sitting there without pay. So they're nervous. Yep. And it's, it disturbs it, right? And so if you would speak to the audience about the this uncertainty as it relates to making a decision, because this can cloud my decision, a lot of times I'll want to jump for the first thing just because I'm in a hurry, right? And I'm saying, okay, I'm gonna take the job because I got to, you know, pick the car payment and house payment and send the kids to college. Right. Right. Right. And frequently, that isn't always the best decision. Yeah.

Chris Fontanella
Correct. Yeah. I mean, I think you have to start from the premise that uncertainties are reality. And uncertainty is part of the course in life and in your career as well, right? Because you just never know what's going to happen, you could show up to work one day, and an announcement is made that your job is being relocated to another state because the company was acquired by another organization, the boss that you love working for, just got fired or quit, because he's pursuing other interests. So you just never know what's going to happen. And, you know, the inevitable inevitability of change and the reality of uncertainty demands that you become adaptable. And, and if you can somehow have a paradigm shift in your mind that this, this change that is now sort of fallen on my lap within it is embedded some possibilities for yourself. Yeah, right. And a lot of people don't, don't take that moment to just step back and breathe and then try to look at the situation with fresh, fresh eyes and try to see within it, possibilities that may be out there for you through that situation. I'm a big believer that moments of destiny are sometimes found in unexpected events. And those are disruptions.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, disruption, right. In other words, that was just somebody gets laid off or the company downsizes or whatever it is, you know, like we've had companies reach something like Google and whenever layoff 10,000 people, right? Right? That downsizing gives you an opportunity to retrigger. We just went through COVID Everybody was really looking at their life and who they were and how they wanted to be in interact. And am I going to take a new job? I mean, understand this one, whatever. Right?

Chris Fontanella
Right. Yeah. And that's the thing, like when the uncertainty sort of steps out from around the corner, and now you're, whatever was undefined, you just kind of had a sense, like, something uncertain is about to happen, because change always happens that it's just sort of lurking around the corner, and now it steps out from the shadows. You know, do you view that as an opportunity? Or is it something that paralyzes you and keeps you from acting?

Greg Voisen
Well, you speak about that you say people change in the maze, as mazes have a way of disoriented people, even to the point of remembering who they are. Right? Yeah, talking about this maze, I'm caught in a maze. You know, can you tell us a little bit more about life and career challenges? And how do the mazes affect the challenges?

Chris Fontanella
Yeah, I mean, some of some of my, my writing along the lines about work life and life in general being compared to amaze stems from a book by Spock, Spencer Johnson, called Who Moved My Cheese, you know, and the point of the book is that in the maze, people respond differently. And they respond differently, because you can get lost in the maze, there's towering walls, there's dark hallways, there's dead ends. And, you know, in a sense, we're all sort of like mice scampering here and there throughout the maze, looking for our rewards our piece of cheese for the work we're doing in the workplace. But again, those sorts of challenges create opportunities for you to make the best of a situation. So like that. There's, there's just again, it's accepting the reality that that life in the workforce can be like a maze, and you got to kind of figure out how to get where you want to go within that to find the rewards that you want for yourself.

Greg Voisen
Well, I remember that book by Spencer Johnson, Who Moved My Cheese, it was a really famous book for people to read inside organizations. And that's a great analogy, actually. Now, you know, because of your theological background, you actually care about people, right? Let's face it, you care about their well-being, you care that they get placed in the right positions. In chapter two, you state that Welcome to the Machine is the Pink Floyd song that warns about the money grabbing tendencies of the music industry and its records producers, you also tell an interesting story about someone who felt like a machine and did something about it. Can you share that story with the listeners? And really kind of the outcome? You know?

Chris Fontanella
Yeah, yeah. So in the second chapter, I talked about the workplace sort of being very machine like, and I created a fictional character by the name of Simon. And those who know me and know a bit about my story know that that's sort of loosely based on my own experience. And as you know, and as your listeners know, it's not uncommon for a person to be working for a while within an organization within a company. And then they start to get to the point where they just feel like they're a cog in the wheel, you know, they're just part of the machine to help keep pushing the profitability of the organization. And along the way, it's very easy to sort of lose your individuality. And I had been working for a company for many years, and I love the company. But after the company became a publicly traded organization, I saw cultural shifts that started to make me feel a little out of place. Like I didn't fit any more because all of a sudden, there were standardization of business practices. There was like a homogenization around the types of people that were being hired. And when I looked around at the people that were being hired, and I compared them to myself, I'm like, I just don't feel like I fit in anymore. And I think there's a lot of that in in corporate America, right where companies want to hire the this people from the same ilk, they want, they want to hire people that look the same talk the same act the same. And then they base a lot of the company's success on standard business practices, like if you're a salesperson, we need you to talk this way we need, here's the script, we need you to follow. And, you know, I just knew myself well enough to know that that wasn't going to work for me. I am sort of fierce about maintaining my individuality. And you know, every individual has to ask those kinds of questions for themselves as what kind of organization or system or quote unquote, machine they're willing to be a part of?

Greg Voisen
Well, it seems to me is your character from what I've been able to glean in our meeting together, you know, you obviously have this degree in theology, you've been the undercover evangelist, probably in most of the companies that you've gone into. They, that's what they used to call me. Because, you know, spirituality in the workplace isn't something that's accepted everywhere, right? But at the same time, you can't divide my work life in my personal life. It's really all one in the same, right? And when you're trying to help somebody find a job, I think that's really important. And if you would state the dissatisfaction, a job often happens when someone unforeseen events, turns your work upside down. What encouragement would you offer someone who feels that they've gone down the wrong career path? In other words, here they are, and they're in the wrong career path? And you're saying they're dissatisfied? They're angry? Yeah, they can't, they don't seem like get out of it. Because the money the paycheck, is the reason. What advice would you give somebody, I think this is a good career tip.

Chris Fontanella
Yeah, just remember that, like careers are, like complex constructs, right? They're made up of various pieces that are sort of stitched together. I think, in one of my books, I say, they're, they're almost like Frankenstein, like they, you know, bits and pieces are taken from all over to sort of create, you know, something bigger than itself. And along the way, as your careers are evolving, yeah, you're gonna, you're gonna make missteps, you're gonna take steps in the right direction, you're going to take steps in the wrong direction, you're going to accept a job with an organization where a few months into it, you realize I'm not really a good fit here, I'm seeing things about the company that I don't agree with, from a philosophical standpoint. And I just encourage people all the time to remember that, you know, you're wrong moves are not your final moves. And you can always take another step in another direction, you can always redirect your career, you can always reconfigure the map for your career. You know, if we use the map analogy, and you've used the lines to sketch out, you know, the general area of exploration for yourself with a map, your first sketches are very rarely your final sketches. And along the way you can erase lines, you can extend the line somewhere to include something new, you can, you could shrink it because you become more focused on what you want to do. So, you know, bottom line is, any of any wrong moves you might make along the way on your career path are not necessarily your final moves.

Greg Voisen
So, you know, for you, Chris, you know, you left Robert Half, and you started your own, you know, deal encore. And, you know, people think that, you know, when they become an entrepreneur, and it's usually truly the case they're going to become they're going to have more control over their life. Although I know many entrepreneurs that the business that itself possesses their life, then there's no work life balance because they're just so driven by it. What lessons would you give someone who's considering starting their own business?

Chris Fontanella
Yeah, I would encourage people who are thinking about entrepreneurship, which for me is somebody who basically has decided they have the guts to go for it. Just remember that it's important to be willing to start at the bottom to start from scratch. If you're willing to do that, everything you need to know for the job you're wanting to do. Everything you'll need to know to be at the top. Once you get there, you're going to learn at the bottom, I would encourage people to learn to be comfortable with humble beginnings. There's no overnight successes. I think it was the British author Bernadine Evaristo, who said that she was an overnight success, just 40 years in the making. And I, when I talk about entrepreneurship, a lot of times I remind people that starting small is never wrong. But thinking small is always if you're going to be an entrepreneur, you should remember to accept failure as part of the process. And remember that like the road to entrepreneurial success, is never really a direct route, it's more of a winding road, that's an amalgamation of, you know, the right steps, the wrong steps. It's, it's got a lot of twists and turns, sometimes you know, you end up in a dead end, and you got to backtrack. But all of it ultimately contributes to getting you where you need to go. And then finally, I would tell people to not underestimate the importance and the value of determination. And a lot of cases, your determination is going to be more important than the degree you have.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, determination and commitment are a big one. You know, for anybody, I remember Zig Ziglar, saying, I used to go to his meetings. It's your not your aptitude to determine your altitude, it's your attitude. Right? I'm gonna say it your attitude to determination. Now, if you would you say, if you hope to retain control over your career, you must learn to recognize the changing landscape within the company you work for, as well as the broader economic market. What are some signs that can help an employee recognize change is about to happen at their workplace of employment, right? And what should they do to catch a glimpse of the impending changes that is inside this environment at work?

Chris Fontanella
Yeah, I mean, work life. The landscape is always shifting. And it's a matter of many times, just paying attention, sort of keeping your ears piqued, to listen for certain things. But there are things that are pretty recognizable. Like if you start to hear about or read about industry consolidation within the business sector that you're a part of your company may potentially be a takeover target. If you start to see rounds of layoffs and downsizing at your company, that's a pretty good indication that something's going on a bigger level that you might not have all the insight in but could potentially impact your job. Maybe your company is looking at outsourcing a lot of roles. Typically, companies are looking to save some money. So they'll outsource a lot of particularly like transactional type related roles overseas, because it's just cheaper cost of high hiring people. And then there's all the macroeconomic conditions like you mentioned, you mentioned COVID, there was the great recession. There were all the 1000s of tech layoffs that took a lot of people by surprise. There's inflation. Events like these often pressure companies to make decisions that affect employees. But if, if I can suggest those things just are reminders to you of your need to be willing to adapt. You know, see them as signs pointing you to at least begin to think about you may have to make a decision to either move on from accompany or to seek employment out Square. And so when you when you notice the ground, underneath your work life, landscape shifting a little bit, that's a pretty good indication that you need to start thinking outside the box a little bit.

Greg Voisen
Well, it's important to see around corners. And that's what an entrepreneur, even if it's not entrepreneurship, but if you're inside a company, you need to look around the corners, you don't want something to broadside you or hit you right in front of the face. And it was it was staring you in the face all the time without you being aware of it. And what you're saying is, you know, keep your eyes and ears open, listen for things, observe things, look what's going on inside the organization, put the dots together, and then act accordingly. Right? Yes, I mean, that's a good strategic plan, in a sense. And that also applies to you know, the interpretations that one makes. Let's face it, when you go to get a degree in theology, you're not doing it for the money. But we are we are ranked on salary frequently this society's checkmarks. In the boxes are like, well, how much did Greg make? How much did Chris make? You know? And the reality is, is that it is but if you go backwards, and you take a reversing and pay, and you go down the ladder, because you weren't satisfied with what you're doing, if you would speak with the listeners? And the question here was, when does it make sense for me, you anybody to considering taking a lesser position, a lateral move in the company, or a downsize position? And what might be the predicator? to that? What, what things might possess me to want to do that? Yes,

Chris Fontanella
yeah, I address that topic in the book, sort of in the broader space of being true to yourself, and sort of right sizing yourself within the organization of which you're, you're a part it's sort of a matter of putting yourself in a role that allows you to fully utilize your gifts and talents, putting yourself in a role that allows you to be the individual you want to be. And that, you know, will allow you to feel fulfilled in what you're doing. You know, over the course of your career, you've probably have ascended up the corporate ladder, you've probably gotten increases in your pay. And that's, that's great. With that, a lot of times comes a host of responsibilities, the management of staff, different stresses. And there's, again, there's nothing wrong like that. But you may eventually find yourself at a point in your career where that's not really the person you want to be anymore. And now it's a matter of, as I said, right, sizing yourself. within the organization, I actually had to do that. I was working for a company that I had sold my business to. And a lot was going on with the organization, there was managerial changes at the CEO level, a lot of cultural shifts in the company, I left for a while I was brought back to rebuild the business after the great recession. And I basically ended up being a one man show I was I was doing all the recruitment for the company, I was doing all the business development, I should not for the company, I should say, for my market, I was doing all the business development, I was managing the office, I was managing the PnL. And I got to a point and I realized, you know what, I really don't want to be the market leader. I don't want to be the guy that's responsible for the whole Los Angeles market, I really just wanted to go back and be a business development guy, which I felt tapped into my greater strengths as a as an employee. So I had to sort of raise my hand I called the CEO and I said, Look, you know, for us to really grow the region the way I think we can grow the region. We're going to need to do something here and the CEO wisely asked me you know, what are you not wanting to do and I said, Really, I don't want to be the market leader anymore and so I in in essence, I demoted myself into just being a sales guy. Although maybe that's not the great way to say it just be a sales guy because sales guys were the ones driving all the revenue. Right? Right. But that ended up being a great decision because then we recruited a guy I, that was actually an exceptional market leader, he didn't get overly stressed by the responsibility of the p&l statement, he didn't get over overly stressed by managing the staff within the office. And then I was cut free to go knock on doors and find new business opportunities for the firm. And then over a, I think a three year period of time, we grew the business from about 2.5 million in revenue to about 10 million. And so that, to me sort of was an indication that when you put yourself in the right role for yourself, and maybe open up a position for somebody else that you know, has the right skills for a different role, the combined effort can lead to great success. So I'm a big believer in right sizing yourself and finding the right role for yourself in an organization. And sometimes that means stepping down.

Greg Voisen
That's a, it's such an important thing that you said, because you know, when you're literally assessing your talents, and skills, and you're saying, this is what I love doing, this is what I love. This is my purpose. I like being out with the people. I like talking to people I like finding out and inquiring you know, you're a curious guy, I've known that when you know since we first met, and that curiosity needs to be you have also since insatiable appetite for it, right? But if you are going to like dig into p&l and run an office and do the rest of the stuff, those are the mechanics of it, you know, you're a people person, you wouldn't have gotten your degree in a seminary if you weren't a people person, right. And I think knowing who you are, and where you can best fit in the, in the puzzle piece of a company, you say the maze is really important. Where can you excel within that organization? Yeah,

Chris Fontanella
and as you if I may, and that's why the topic of stepping down and sort of couched in the broader topic of being true to yourself. And it really is important for you to sort of look inside yourself and know who you are, know, what things make you tick, what your interests are the things that you love to do. Um, you know, as you mentioned, for me, I've always been sort of a people person. And, you know, I was I was an okay market leader, I, you know, I managed the p&l and I did what I had to do to run the office, but I excel that getting in front of a potential client, I excel that meeting a candidate and getting to know them and then doing the work to match them up to the right client. And then, you know, making a placement.

Greg Voisen
So the thing is, is that we, we often find ourselves at this crossroad in our careers, and we're seeking something more. We don't always know what the more is. But we know deep in our hearts, something needs to shift to change. For us. There's all kinds of assessments, the DISC assessment, there's lots of things, I can take personality profiles. You've been in this industry for a long time. And, you know, you want to kind of measure it. And when you're kind of lost, you need somewhere to ground. Right? What recommendations would you have for assessments that individuals might want to take to really help find themselves and find where they might be from both a career and a personal standpoint?

Chris Fontanella
Yeah. The mythologies talk about putting yourself in what they call a walled garden. It's sort of the place you retreat to, to ponder to contemplate to reflect. It's like intended isolation, where you have time to let your mind roam free. And I've always found that one I've taken the time to do that, I get a little more in touch with myself, I start to feel a little more grounded in who I am as an individual. I'm reminded of, of the things that are important to me, the, the philosophies, beliefs, and thoughts that are important to me. And so I try to encourage people to, and help whatever way makes sense for them, right, because we all come from different belief systems and, and religious beliefs, or whatever the case may be. But however you do something along those lines, make sure you're carving out some time in your day. And if you can do it every day, all the better to, to just reflect, contemplate and ponder. And I've always found that that completely helps with getting in touch with yourself. And then that ultimately becomes sort of how you're able to know which road to walk down. And what path to take.

Greg Voisen
Well, I think you did it. Look, you became an author here, you've now written three different books, you did this, because your, your you personally kind of shifted, you took time to contemplate, determined, what would be the next, you know, I think we reach stages in our career stages in our life, where we want something more for ourselves, and the people that we influence in your books are a great example of how you can influence people in the world. And that is a great thing. Now at the end of each of the chapters of the book in the future called spark plugs, and reviewing key points that can be easily referenced later. And I'm going to hold these books back up again, so that the listeners now and here's Jumpstart your Career, and then is Tune Up Your Career. And you can get both of these off of Amazon, I know encourage people, they're really easy reads there. I mean, there's the size of both of them together. And you get some great tips in here. And these spark plugs are referenced at the back of the chapters offering exercise reinforce the material in each of the chapters. Yeah, if you're gonna leave the listeners with three spark plugs from tune up your career, or one from the other book and a few from tune up career, what would those be and why?

Chris Fontanella
First, I would say that changing circumstances at work, create opportunities. I think I mentioned earlier in the broadcast that moments of death destiny are often embedded within the sort of unexpected events that that pop up and spring up. You can just bank on it. Like if you're working somewhere and you've been there a while something's going to change, change is inevitable. And then start to reshape your thinking that within that change, there's opportunity for you and then use that to sort of springboard into something new for yourself or to further yourself down your career path. The next thing is personal accountability is the foundation of every noteworthy career in my mind. Keeping your hands on the steep steering wheel of your career vehicle is of utmost importance for you to take your career where you want it to go. Don't rely on a boss, don't rely on others don't rely on your parents don't rely on anybody else to have the career that you want. Ultimately, that responsibility, you know, rests with you. And then lastly, I would say and again, it's another one we've touched upon, but wrong career moves are never final career moves, you can make 1000 wrong career moves and the 1000 and first next move is the one that sets you down going down the path and going down the road of exactly where you were meant to go. So it can be disheartening sometimes to make a wrong move, because maybe you gotta backtrack, you got to turn the vehicle around or whatever the case may be. But you always have the ability to make another choice, another step in another direction. So you know, wrong moves or never final moves.

Greg Voisen
Those are great three tips. Those are wonderful tips for the listeners to take away. And you know, if you get laid off and you feel like you've been kicked and you get depressed by something, but like that easier said for us to say but the only thing that keeps your down is your own mental mindset to keep you down. You just need to get up and take the next step. And was interesting. I just watched that documentary series about Arnold Schwarzenegger. And they profiled his career from weightlifter to actor from actor to politician. And he admits all these mistakes, but he said whenever he was down, and made huge mistakes, and I think this is true in our careers in our life, and felt like he said, Just do something, yeah, just do something, pick up the phone and call someone, send an email to someone that you've never sent an email to before. Because you're out seeking a new career, you never know where it's gonna go. And then I think for you, as a theologian, and as spiritual man, you have to have faith. You know, I think in the end of all of this, there's a larger presence, that watches after us call it God, for those people who believe in God, if you don't believe in God, you know, maybe it's your angels, the angels that whisper in your ear. But I think more importantly, be attuned to listening to that higher spirit. Because every day you're given you're given and you know, this, because of my show, you're given signs and signals, but you have to be aware of what they are, you have to understand that they're there for you. And, you know, I know this may kind of silly, but when you look up and you see a stop sign, maybe the stop sign is the indication that you shouldn't go down this particular path. Right? Right. I know these examples may sound a little far out to some people. But it I know, I've always used my intuition, if you would, in this interview with us today, about how you views sign symbols, your faith, your spirituality, to guide you along the path, no matter how hard it's gotten, like I said, I'm certain that you don't mind if I tell people not too long ago, you had a life threatening experience, you had a heart attack, right? You've responded that incident in your life, really retriggered you to rethink about everything, didn't it?

Chris Fontanella
It absolutely did. And I'm like you and that I've always been intuitive. And I've tried my best to listen to my inner voice. That may be a way that people are more comfortable sort of defining that. And also, like, you know, you mentioned the word faith and faith in its sort of simplest definition is believing in the unseen. And when you think about all the entrepreneurs out there, one of the things that I found that they have in common is that they were able to see unseen worlds. They, they had this vision that penetrated, you know what's right before them, and they could see what others couldn't see. And so in a sense, a lot of these entrepreneurs had faith. And then that that belief in whatever they saw that was unseen, really guided their decision making. It guided the actions that they took to sort of make that unseen reality a reality.

Greg Voisen
But they were given guidance on how to actually manifest that. Right. So in other words, the putting something into physical form that comes from the ethereal requires that you not only have belief and faith, but then you follow the guidance that you're being given. I mean, you can look at most of these tech entrepreneurs, a lot of them Steve Jobs, he'll tell you, hey, he had you know, he used to go to India, and he went to the ashrams and he believed in doing method, strong meditation and a connection. You know, many of the people said my intuition was my strongest guiding point as an entrepreneur. And I'd say it's the strongest guiding point in your career as well. When you're going and you're looking through the pages of LinkedIn for careers, be cognizant of what is on the words on the page, and how it feels to you not just the fact that they're advertising a job for you know, 200,000 to work remotely or whatever it might be great. Brian, you know, really look into it very deep. But Chris, what you've done today with my listeners and myself as you've opened up a new world, of how to not only to Another career we might have, but maybe a career we're looking for, and how to tune that into our work life balance, so that we're happy as individuals. And we're contributing to society, that we're making a difference a difference in our lives and the difference in others. You know, it's been a pleasure having you on the show. For all my listeners, you can just we're going to put a link up, but I'll say it again, you're just going to go to chrisfontanella.com. There, you're going to learn about all three books. And you can contact Chris through there. There's a contact section and the media and the books. And thank you so much for a lively interview and engaging interview and interview that I think completely informed people some of the steps they can take along their career path.

Chris Fontanella
Greg, thank you so much for having me as the 100% My pleasure to be beyond the show.

Greg Voisen
All right, Blessings to you. Have a good rest of your day.

Chris Fontanella
Thank you so much.