Welcome back to beyond the bottom line podcast. This is Greg Voisen, the host of beyond bottom line, and I'm also the host of a popular podcast called inside personal growth, and you're going to actually be seeing this podcast with Ryan Prange. It'll be on both places. So thank you for joining us for this episode of beyond the bottom line. We like to feature businesses which literally go beyond the bottofm line. Now Ryan has been a client of mine for years as a consultant standpoint, and I used to do landscaping myself. So to give some of my listeners a context here, I had a C 27 license, owned a landscaping company. So I know how tough it is to run a landscape company, but Falling Waters landscape, which is located in Encinitas, California, is, in my estimation, undoubtedly, probably one of the most creative landscape design companies and installations. So they call it design build, and that's where Ryan's come from. Ryan, Good day to you, buddy. How you doing? Good day to you, Greg, I'm doing well. Thanks. Well, I appreciate you taking this time to come on beyond the bottom line and also inside personal growth, to give our listeners, really a kind of a unique perspective of who you are, who the business is, and how Falling Waters goes beyond the bottom line. And so if you would, can you tell the listeners a little bit about your background, who you are, why you have a love for this industry, and what got you in it. Sure.

Yeah. So I was raised here in Encinitas, California, and grew up going to work with my dad. He was in the maintenance, landscape maintenance business, and from the time I was really little, five, six years old, I would join him on projects and do whatever I could to help. And then high school, getting a car, all those things required more money, and so I would work more consistently. And towards the end of high school and into my we'll call it College, light years, I worked with my dad and really helped on the higher end maintenance and commercial clients that we had. We had a few hotels, a few estates, and that's how I got into the business. Amazing.

Well, I I know your dad, and I knew your dad because he was in the business with you when I started the consulting, and you did have the the maintenance side, but you chose to spawn it off and kind of get rid of it for your focus on this. So that's kind of the origin, but really what inspired you to create this landscape design firm that really breaks with the traditional mold. Because, you know, there are lots of landscaping companies in San Diego County, but not many of them design or break from a traditional mode and mold. And when you look at what Falling Waters does in the way of eco escapes, you guys really are a shining star. I mean, I know you've been, you've won tons of awards, you're in San Diego magazine, you're in all these other places where people have looked at you and the designs you've done. And not only eco friendly, you're very water friendly too, because many of your designs really consider the use of resources and how much water it takes to keep landscaping going. So speak about that, if you would sure.

So I think you know what differentiates I would say us a bit, and I'll speak personally. Here is I never, you know, aside from my dad, I never worked for anybody else, and so I didn't have the I didn't have the industry telling me what I could and couldn't do. And so I think my design style and the company evolved very naturally. There wasn't any, oh, here's what a design or design build company should do. It's just all right, here's what we're going to do. So I think that differentiates us a bit. You're right. We do try to be very eco conscious with our projects. We also try to approach each project from the standpoint of the client and what's really going what are they really asking for, and what do they really want? And budget is a super important aspect, and so we try to make sure the budgets are aligned with what the client wants, and be able to show them something, get them excited about, something that they can actually afford, or I should say that they actually want to put the investment in. And I think, I think there's a lot of companies that will design beautiful landscapes, and there's a lot of companies that will install, you know, amazing projects, but to be able to work with one person or entity that does both. I think that does differentiate us from

others, do you? I mean, I know, look, there's a difference between highly affluent people or affluent people and the average run of the mill kind of person. And up till now, you guys have kind of focused on affluent high end and in the world the landscape design. Can you let our listeners kind of know what that means? And then maybe, can you also talk about what you're thinking about now as it relates to maybe some of the I want to call them more middle of the road jobs. What I'm going to say landscape designs, because you have told me that this is something that you're considering doing. And I think for the listeners out there to say, well, I could have somebody who's used to designing high end actually work on my home and I don't fit that affluent category, they'd probably be like, Let's beat a pathway over to over to Falling Waters and see what these guys can do. Sure.

Yeah. So you know, high end is certainly relative, and it means different things to different people. For us when it comes to designing a space high end is going to be very much the materials that are chosen. And so think natural surfaces, you know, stone, beautiful ceramic tiles, maybe instead of a concrete or a a paver, right? They're both going to cover the ground, but one has an elevated look and feel. It's the same idea indoors, right? There's there's laminate flooring, and then there's wide plank French oak. You know, what is clearly more expensive, and I would say, objectively, more beautiful than the other one. And well,

you not to interrupt, and I apologize, but I think the listeners would want to know this. Most listeners probably heard this. There's hardscape, and you're now referring to hardscape, yeah, and many of your jobs are hardscape intensive, yeah, when I look at your job in comparison to many, because when people put hardscape in, it always means more money. It's more expensive. Okay, what are this? What is it about the hardscape that why you guys like it so much, whereas other landscape companies might not quite use as much of it.

Um, you know, I think gardens are meant to be used and lived in, not just passively viewed. And I think that requires spaces to sit and relax and lounge and hang out. And I think too, just maybe it's also a function of where we live, the sizes of people's property. It's very common to have 5000 7000 square foot lots, 10,000 and above are a little less common, and we, we, frankly, don't have much acreage property here in San Diego, at least in the incorporated part of this the county. So what that means is smaller jobs, I should say, smaller plots of land, and some of those have elevation change, and really the only way to utilize that space is to create usable area, and you do that through built, you know, hard surfaces, decks, patios and that, and again, here in San Diego, where we enjoy year round outdoor living. How do you get the highest and best use of your property? Well, you build out, you you you use what is available to you. And finally, I think people equate maintenance with, or I should say, people equate large lawns and a lot of plants with a lot of maintenance. And so I think that, you know, people are busy. They've got, they've got less time today than they used to have. And so more hardscape, I think, means a little bit less maintenance. But our goal, right, is not to have it feel like a, you know, like a pickleball court out there, real Stark, you know, we want it to be softened, and so

you're not building the concrete jungle that I try not to, try not to, yeah, now I realize that, you know, look, I've seen many of your landscapes around North County and especially the seaside communities, and in those communities, I realize that you have obviously a lot more moisture coming in off of the ocean, and you've done some beautiful hard scapes, but you clearly emphasize in a lot of your designs clean lines and a modern, minimalistic kind of approach. And I believe much of that philosophy comes from Ryan and your company has embraced it. And what is it about these clean lines and modern minimalistic that you've chosen to do that really? And I think, I also think there's a lot of people that really like that, right? Because obviously you guys are busy as hell. But the reality is, is, hey, let's face it, your design is not for everybody, but your company can design to what the client wants.

Yeah, I think the website probably reflects, like the greatest hits, you know, and I think it's, it's, it's the projects that we feel best represent our capabilities. But it doesn't mean that that's the only thing that we do. I think the project brief that we get often from our typical client is, hey, we want to, you know, we want to make this space beautiful. We want to have it be low maintenance, like, I, like, I just said before, you know, and, and, but the fact is, is that a lot of people, most people, don't live in a modern home. In fact, most people live in a tract home, or, you know, a 50s ranch or something that's arguably not modern, right? So I think that if their esthetic leans more to the modern side, our job is to try to meld those two ideas. We don't want the landscape to be to feel like, I think, like this deviation from the home, right? And so there's ways to do that, I think, without making it feel like your home is traditional, but your landscape feels like some, you know, modern museum. That's what we we don't want that. We want it to be complimentary.

We wanted to compliment and I believe, probably in places like Rancho, Santa Fe and in Point Loma, and we're talking about areas where people around here would really relate. They'd understand, you know, you get a lot of these ranch style kind of places, and you have to know how to blend these two. And I think your company does an exceptional job now, all every listener always wants to know, you know, and without them going to your website, which, for my listeners, it's Falling Waters landscape.com that's about as easy as you can get. I'll repeat it again. It'll also be in the show notes. Go to Falling Waters landscape.com because a picture is worth 1000 words. Now, for those of you watching on YouTube, you're going to actually see some pictures of the landscapes that Ryan has done that will be flipping through on this YouTube video as we're speaking here, because that's one way for us to convey the work. If you're not going to go to the website, but I would encourage you go to the website, because that's where you're going to see the other everything is go to his Instagram page. So if you really want to see, as I said, a picture is worth 1000 words, go to the Instagram page and look at some of those pictures and what people are saying now. What's one project that really challenged you and the team, creative and technically. And how did you guys overcome the challenges associated with the installation? So if you were to pull out one out of your hat and just say, hey, here, I've done so many of them, but, and you said, this is the one, what one that might be?

Well, this is, you know, maybe a lame response, but you know, they're all, they're all somewhat challenging, right? Because we don't, we don't do a we don't do a cookie cutter approach. Every job has a custom element, generally speaking, much to the dismay of the of the Build crew. You know, it's every single job is different. So, you know, the pool on one job might be 16 by 18 or 16 by 40 and the other pool is, you know, 18 by 32 they're both rectangles, but they have all these different details. So I think, just generally speaking, each each site has its challenges. The products that I think are the most challenging are ones where we are dealing with a city or municipality that is either extremely protective of view corridors. Think for those local here, think Solana Beach and Del Mar, or in communities where there is a very strong homeowners association and, you know, think Fairbanks ranch or Cielo, those kinds of communities. So without getting specific, those are hard. Frankly, those are hard, and part of our job is to navigate that for and with our clients. And thankfully, you know, most of our clients are super understanding. You know, they know, they know where they live. They understand that there's going to be challenges associated with getting their project built. And we found that if we go in, you know, palms up and offer the carrot. You know, we usually can. We usually can help them navigate through the process, and we might have to give a little but at the end of the day, you know, we want it to be successful, and we want to work within the boundaries of what's allowed. If you go to the website, we have a project called Nicole's garden that is a project in Carlsbad, California, and it it was a very technical project. We needed to put a pool on a slope. The client wanted to include so many elements. And so in order to do that, we really had to use every part of the property, and it was a lot of fun. So, you know, we have, we have, we had a cold plunge that was integrated into the pool. We had a sauna area, a hot tub, a fire pit, and all on this sort of tiered landscape. So I would say, if I'm looking at the projects. That one was a

that one was a tough one, yeah, especially with the cold plunge and all that. Did you also do a sauna for him? We

did. We did a sauna, wow, plunge and fire play. It was, it was all the things. It was all things, and then all the goodies, all the goodies. And there's a few existing fruit trees that we needed to work around and and this was the project that evolved over the course of a couple years. And so if you look close, you'll you'll see different styles that I think represent the client style over the years that we worked with them. Hopefully it comes across as seamless and it doesn't feel like too disparate of

and what's the name of that one? Again, somebody's garden, Nicole. Nicole's garden. Nicole's garden. So for my listeners, go check that out. Go to Falling Waters landscape, and then look for the pictures under Nicole's garden. So look, there's a lot of clients out there that and most clients, they don't know exactly what they want. They they kind of have a feeling they've seen this job or that job, or this landscape, or they've been to a friend's house and they talked to him and they said, Oh yeah, go see Falling Waters landscape. How do you take their feelings and turn it into a beautiful outdoor space. Because, I mean, really, this is where the pedal hits the metal. Is your design department. I will speak highly of Ryan's design team, of Ryan and his ability to convey what the client is looking for and getting it to the design team. So how do you help people get through this trepidation of, whoa, I'm here, and then how do you keep it so that there aren't so many change orders in the process?

Yeah, I think the the operative word is patience. You know, we really try to be as patient as possible, and that's that's challenging when we're when we're obviously trying to hit a schedule and make a project happen. So there's this real fine balance of helping clients come to conclusions without making them feel rushed, or that we're trying to upsell them on something or push them into any decisions. So we try to be as patient as possible. I try to remember, and I try to remind my team that this may, may very well be the largest investment, aside from their primary residence, that these people make, and that there's a lot of emotion tied up with money, with partying, with that kind of money, and that we have to be tactful and make sure that the client is extremely comfortable. So one of my things I say, and I firmly believe it to people, is, hey, you have to like me and you have to like my team in order to cut us a check. You know, we you might like our style and you might like our ideas, but at the end of the day, you need to feel super comfortable with us that we're going to hold your hand the whole way through. And I do think that's where, again, that differentiates us is we're going to be there all the way through, you know, from the beginning ideas to kind of handing me the keys, so to speak, so

Well, it's one thing, Ryan, I know, because I've been in this to convey something on paper and to provide it. Are you guys using any 3d Renderings at this point, so that the actual client can get a feel for what's going to happen to their outside landscape. And I think it's important because look in today's stage of digitization, and, you know, AI and everything that's going on, you know, people like to see it, and when they see it, and they go, Wow, I can visualize it now. I can actually see it in front of me. Are you guys using stuff like that yet? And if so, how you doing with the CAD CAM stuff?

This will, I maybe surprise you, maybe not. We do very little. And and here's, here's why. First off, we keep all of our design work in house and so to we don't farm it out, and we don't send it out to third parties or overseas. There's a lot of folks that do that. There's a lot of companies that base their entire business model on essentially farming out the design to lower wage workers out of the country. No, I don't have a personal issue with that. It's just not something we do, and we base a lot of our work on trust and listening to the client pulling together imagery and moving them through the design process as efficiently as possible. So we can show someone, you know, a gorgeous 3d plan, even a even a fly through we have the ability to do that, and we have done that. But generally, what I encourage my clients to do is, is to in order to keep the design process affordable and moving along at a steady pace, in order to get them the actual, you know, the goal is to get them a built project that they love. It's not to create a beautiful picture for them. And a beautiful picture does not mean that it can be built, and it does not mean that it can be built with their within their budget. So a beautiful picture is great, but also we've had folks get very tethered to an idea that they see in a three dimensional plan, and in reality, it just doesn't necessarily feel like that. So 3d is a double edged sword. It can help and it can also hurt. People will look and say, Well, I don't really want the plants to look like that, or I don't really want that color of a tile, and we and we have to remind them, well, this is a digital representation in real life. You have shadow and different times of the day. You have how people perceive color differently, you have elevation changes. You have all of these things that change how we feel in a space. And so 3d just shows you kind of, well, it shows you a perspective, but it doesn't really show you the whole story. So whether you do 3d or not, there's a leap of faith that's involved. And so what we try to do is make sure we're holding their hand and letting them know, Hey, this is going to be great. And then, by the way, we're building it, and as we're building it, we can make little shifts and tweaks and changes, and again, help hold their hand along the way to make sure that they feel like, okay, this is, uh, this feels good in the space. This is the right scale. And if we can put those dollars towards the project, versus the 3d we found that that that to be successful. That's

a good explanation. And I think one of the things you said during that dialog was that you the people, need to trust. I heard the word Trust come up and along that that comes with trusting and hiring the team that installs. So you said trusting your whole team? Yeah, and how do you and how have you built a team that reflects the ethos and the esthetics of the brand of Falling Waters? Because, you know, look, people have a tough enough time just finding good employees, let alone having employees who are carrying the ethos and the esthetics of your brand along with it. How have you done this, and how do you maintain it? And what can you tell our listeners about that? Yeah,

I've had to learn this the hard way over the years, but it's really taking care of our people and taking care of, you know, my employees, and making them feel comfortable in, you know, working here, feeling okay that, you know, mistakes are okay, and really kind of creating that environment that fosters creativity. I try not to micromanage. I try not to to I try to let them make mistakes and bring me, bring me the problem and the solution instead of just the problem. So fostering that that environment, it takes a long time. It takes setting the example being vulnerable and in order to make sure that everybody feels, you know, really, really comfortable creating and designing, because the creation and is giving a little piece of yourself away right when you're creating something, and so that there's a vulnerability in that that can be awkward and it can it can be, it can be exposing. And so what we don't ever want to do is stifle creativity or or make somebody feel like they can't be creative, and I feel like when we do that, then the projects reflect that. The way that the team interacts with our clients reflects that. And does

the team, does the team that does the install, and your supervisors and people are they actually involved when these plans get designed? Because let you know there's a sometimes there's a disconnect between the art architect who goes out and looks at the project and then drafts and designs it, and then you hand that plan to a supervisor who's going to run a crew who's going to install it, and the supervisor saying, hey, wait a second, this doesn't work. So how do you guys actually fix not having many of those problems?

Well, I mean, the short answer is, we still have some of those problems. I'm not going to sugar coat it. This industry, this business, is inherently problematic when it comes to an idea on paper versus what's actually buildable.

Yeah? What somebody can do? Yeah? So

part of that is yes, there are a couple members of the Build Team that will look at the plans in the conceptual phase and weigh in. I would say just, you know, we have experience now over the years of knowing generally what's possible, and we'll push the boundaries, but we're not, we're not, we're not going crazy on each project, right? So, yeah, we do involve them, and then out in the field, we have, you know, daily, sometimes multiple times a day, conversations with the team in order to make sure that the intent of the design right is coming through. And the way we do that, like the hierarchy there, is that we have a project coordinator that is, sometimes the designer on the project, sometimes not, and then they interface with the construction manager, and then the construction manager is the one doing the scheduling and laying up the not only our direct employees, But our subcontractors. And so we have this, this team of people, that is all you know, moving towards the same direction, which is getting this project done in an efficient and safe and, you know, proper manner. So there's, I think, I guess there's some inherent checks and balances in there. We're not just handing someone a plan and saying, build it. Also, you know, the Build Team benefits from the projects turning out well, they benefit from stopping checking in with us before they just do something, because guess what? If it's not done right, they're going to be the ones redoing it. So, you know, they want to see the project as successful as possible. They're not, they're not financially incentivized to go quick. They are paid normally, and then if the project does well, then there's something there, but there's no benefit to them to race through a project. Yeah.

Well, I think operationally, you've, over the years, have refined your processes. And I want to talk about that a little bit, because, you know clients, you talked a minute ago about your creativity and kind of giving that away and being a little bit vulnerable, right? And can you walk us through your creative process, from like when a first client's consultation to breaking ground. If you were do that, you don't have to do the long version. You can do kind of the short version. But what? What would that look like for me? I'm out here listening to this podcast, and gone. I like this landscaper, if I call him up, what's going to happen next? Yeah,

I wish I could say we have some formula up on the wall, some some SOP that says this is exactly every time. But no, we don't.

Well, you're the guy that comes and sells most of them. You do have other sales people. But my point, yes,

and we've talked about this before, Greg, I don't ever, I've never considered myself a salesperson. I've always considered myself more of a an advisor, yeah, problem solver, which makes me probably sound better than I am, but the the practical answer is they're going to get me really or they might get my brother Garrett, who's my partner, and will definitely speak with some some new clients. So they'll get, usually one of us. I should say before that, they'll probably get someone from the office, and then we'll give them a call back. That's that's typically how it goes, just because I need to be in the right head space to call you back and talk about your project. Then after we have a phone call. During that phone call, you know, obviously we're kind of interviewing each other really. You're seeing if I'm the type of person that you feel like you could, you know, keep things going with and I'm doing the same thing we're dating at that point. And then we decide, hey, do we want to meet? You know, do we want to do we want to see if we have this chemistry in real life?

Because at what point do I give you a deposit to actually move forward with a design, and then, if I don't want to do the design with you, do I have the option of, like, taking that out to somebody else after you're done, getting it

good question. So after we've met, and I've determined, yep, this is a project that we want to move forward with, I'll I'll ask you, if you want us to submit a proposal, I'll submit that proposal. And we have a few different ways of doing that. So you'll get something in writing and paper form. And if you want to move forward at that point, then you would do a deposit for for the design work, and then we'd move forward once the design is complete, if you have, you know, if, if your boyfriend's uncle is a contractor and you can get a good deal, we say, best of luck, and we're here to Help if, if necessary. So you're not, you're not be held to, to use us. We obviously the the business model. You know, we're talking about business here. The business model is that we design and build it for you. But I would say that we probably only build about 50% I haven't looked at the numbers lately, but we, I would say that's fairly accurate, but about 50% of what we design, and that's not necessarily because somebody doesn't want us to do it. It's it's sometimes it's for practical reasons. Maybe it's distance or it's time. You know, we don't have the bandwidth to do it, and you want it to be done quicker. No problem. We understand. And it's your you know, or maybe you're doing a larger project where you've hired a general contractor to do work on your home, and that GC says, Hey, I've got a landscaper that I always like to work with. Okay, no problem. I'll say this, though, we have found that the most successful projects are the ones where we are involved in some capacity all the way through. That doesn't necessarily mean we have to be putting picks, picks in the ground and shovels in the ground. However, if we're retained in some capacity all the way through, we usually are able to solve problems before they happen, uh, address site issues when they pop up. And so I do feel like, whether it's us or anybody, if you're hiring a landscape uh, designer, landscape architect, make sure it's someone that you want to work with all the way through and see the project from the other side, because a set of plans is not a built project. It's a set

of no and you bring up an important point. I mean, if you're going to actually hire somebody to do the design, because of the intricacies involved in getting a design done, and the know how and the knowledge of the company your use, your be better off staying with the company. That's all I can say. Yeah, because there are a lot of, I don't want to call them, just issues that can arise, that you guys know how to address, that that weren't actually called out specifically for somebody else who had a landscape company to to address, or maybe not even quite know how to figure it out, right? So,

well, I'll say this. You know, there, there's a there's an efficiency to momentum, to the momentum of keeping us on However, we're not trying to create a proprietary design that nobody else could build or or, I should say, trap the client into using us right at the end of the day. Again, if we're not the best fit for the project for multiple reasons, we don't want them to walk away with a set of plans that is too difficult to decipher or not buildable. So that's, that's, that's not the goal, however it is. You know, it is the goal for us to to build it and to see it all the way through. So I don't know if that answers your question. Well, it

does. It was more of a comment. There wasn't really so much of a question there. But I think one of the things the listeners probably want to know is landscaping has kind of traditionally been an industry which has not changed a lot a long time. Now, you're a member of the clca, you go to the meetings, you see what's going on. And this question is really around the future and the trends. What trends are you most excited about, if you were to see them, and which ones are you kind of happy to leave behind? I mean, because, look, we've got aI now, and it's, could probably do a landscape design for our house. If I put it in right, it's like there's a lot of stuff going out there in our world. And where do you see the future of high end residential landscape and the landscapes that kind of middle end? So this is a two part question. Where are the trends? What's happening with high end and middle and where do you think this is going in the next five to 10 years, because you'll still be in the business,

yeah, yeah, most likely. Gosh. I, as far as trends go, I think esthetics and, you know, the way something looks is, is always going to be I think it's always going to drive projects more than how do I put this? People are driven by esthetics more than they are by mandates or by maybe what the right thing to do is, okay? I don't know how to put that more succinctly. So I think that what we see being done, and, you know, advertised online, is, you know, maybe it starts in interior design or fashion or jewelry, and it eventually, you know, architecture, and then it kind of trickles its way down to landscape and furniture design and those sorts of things. They're all kind of intricately tied together. So for many years, we saw the trends of the grays and the whites and the more of the stark colors, and now over the past couple years, and what I think is happening in the future is we're going to be seeing more more color, more authenticity. I mean, you've mentioned AI a couple of times. I think with AI there are pros, but just like with any kind of new technology, there are there cons. And I think what we might see is a little bit of a snap back to what is authentic, what's real. And so I think we'll see this in all sorts of industries, but as far as my industry, I think we're going to see that with curated personal spaces. We're going to see it with people that want, you know, sanctuaries, places they can recharge. We saw that a lot during COVID folks, folks wanted to have a place. They wanted their own personal space to to really reflect their personality and style. So I don't think that's changing. We're seeing people cook more. You know, pizza ovens are the rage, and there's all different kinds of of pizza ovens that can be integrated into into a space. So also spaces that maybe they're not going to be too fussy about. So really, you know, lit spaces that will live, that will live with people. We're also seeing smaller property sizes, or people that are adding ADUs and so their landscape area shrinks naturally. But how are we fitting more elements into a smaller space? So you know that retaining wall needs to also serve as a seating that things need to serve double duty. So I think we're going to see that maybe that's more focused to the San Diego area, where, again, we have smaller land. As far as the trends that I think I'm happy to kind of wave goodbye to, there was a lot of forced modernism and a lot of, I would call it more, I don't know, formulaic design and very stark. And I think we're seeing a shift away from this. At least in my algorithm, there's a shift away from this, and I think that's nice, because, again, a lot of those kinds of gardens are maybe fun to look at from a distance, but they're not necessarily calming, and they're not necessarily inviting, they're interesting, but they're not. They're not meant to be lived in, right? So I'm, I'm okay seeing the the drab grays and blacks and whites go away, and I'm okay seeing a little bit more color.

What was, I think, well, the other part of the question. That was a two part question, but I think you've really answered it all. You've you've talked about the trends, and you've also talked about the creative process, and when a client starts with you, what they can expect. And I think the listeners pretty much get that. And I kind of like to wrap this up with, you know, first off, let the listeners know, go to Falling Waters landscape.com that is where you will want to see the pictures. If not go to Instagram and type in Falling Waters landscape, there you can find the pictures if you were to leave the listeners today that are out there kind of sitting on the fence about making an investment into beautifying their property, the outside of their property. What would you tell them if there was some level of trepidation about making that investment, because you've said that you wanted to work with both high end here and this podcast will be reaching high end and more middle class people. How would you address both audiences who it today in kind of this crazy environment are going, Wow, I'm going to put another well, let's just say for the middle of the road, people 100,000 in. For the high end, people are putting 500,000 in. So for all those who are the 100,000 don't worry about it. 500,000 or the million. What would you tell them to, kind of either put them at ease or let them know that this would be a good investment to make, yeah, that most of these properties that you've beautified have actually appreciated in value much greater than the ones you know. When they say, what's the curbside appeal? I always tell people, boy, you're going to put all that money on the inside. You really ought to stick as much money on the outside, because it's curb appeal. Man,

yeah, no. I mean, I agree, sounds self serving, but I agree, you know, and I have all kinds of anecdotal, you know, evidence of people telling me what the project reappraised at, you know, when we were done, which is always fun to hear and and very interesting as well. You know, again, like I said before, I've never really thought of myself as in sales, and so I don't consider it our our role to try to convince somebody to to bring us on or hire us. I think the goal is for me to show how I can bring value to their project in whatever capacity. And then again, how can I make them feel comfortable? If someone's on the fence, if they're uncomfortable, they really shouldn't do the project, because it's invasive. Constructions invasive, even if it's outside, you know, you're still looking at your window. And 7:30am there's 10 faces you don't recognize, you know? And there's a port, a potty in your in your in your driveway, that's That's never fun. So if, if you're on the fence, I would say, ask yourself, really, you know, where do you see value? Where do where you know, and if you see more value in, in going on a, you know, an amazing European vacation than doing your landscape go on a vacation, yeah, if, if, if, if you are looking to improve your home, and you're just checking the boxes of, oh yeah, we got to put in some grass and we got to do this or that. We probably wouldn't be the right team, right for that particular person. But if, if you're looking at your space and you thinking yourself, how can I thoughtfully improve this space? Then I would love to talk to you, and if you are on board with it and want to be, you know, want to collaborate, I don't consider us another vendor. I consider us someone that is really helping you improve the quality of life in your, you know, in your home. And so I've

always told people, Ryan, you know, in no matter what kind of advising you do or consulting, if you do it in a co creative space, you know, where you're not bringing the total solution, you're listening to the needs and CO creating the solution, which is what I believe you do, you know, which is why you and I get along so well? Is it really you are a co creator, and I agree. You're not a salesperson. You're helping somebody actually co create a design that fits what they want, even though sometimes they don't know what it is by the time they're done with you, they do then have clarity. They have a direction, they have a focus. They know, oh, I can see this now, Ryan, I can see what you've been telling me. And I think that's the best part about Falling Waters, is that you and your team have been able to effectively do that with your prospects that then become clients, that then become raving fans. So I want to thank you for being on this edition of Beyond the bottom line, because you do go beyond the bottom line, and I want to thank you for taking the time to explain to the listeners out there today a little bit about the process, about your company, about how you design, about how you work, because I think it was really quite interesting for those who are right now thinking about, hey, I might want to improve my property. Any last words, oh,

thank you, Greg. Really appreciate you and your guidance over the years, and the opportunity to speak a little bit to your listeners and happy to answer any questions. I really do try to make myself as available as possible. This, this is, it's a big decision doing this, and there's wisdom in the multitude of counselors. So let me give you my thoughts, and if you like what I say, hey, let's let's see what we can make together.

We'll go to Falling Waters landscape.com. There. You'll find a contact button. You can leave contact there. You can certainly look Ryan up online and just go to Google and type in Falling Waters. The phone numbers are there as well. You can make a phone call to Falling Waters, but do go take a look at his website. I think you'll be very impressed with the quality of the work and the creativity of the work, Ryan, it's been an honor having you on beyond the bottom line.

Thank you, Greg, very much.