Greg Voisen
welcome back to Inside personal growth. This is Greg Voisen, the host of inside personal growth. And joining us from Chicago, Illinois, on the other side of the country, I'm here in San Diego, is Harry Kraemer, and Harry is right there. And the book, this book, he's got many books, is your values based legacy. Good day to you, Harry. How you doing

great to be with you. Greg, Chicago,

Greg Voisen
it's great to have you on the show. I've been looking forward to this interview, and I know my listeners are going to basically love what you have to say. So let me let them know a little bit about you. Okay, you know, we're going to explore some transformative ideas for personal and professional growth, and we do that on the show all the time. But today, Harry is basically a Distinguished Leadership expert. He's a professor at Northwestern University, Kellogg School of Management, and he's a former CEO of Baxter International. He's the author of several influential books. I want to let my listeners know, so we'll put links to those as well, including from values to action, becoming the best and your 168 which have collectively shaped the course of this book, values based leadership. This latest work, which we're going to explore today in this interview, he delves into how we can lead lives of purpose and create enduring positive impacts. So I just want to dive right in here with you, Harry, because the reality is, is that I know for many people, when they reach a certain age, and I'm finding this is happening earlier and earlier, they want to make a difference in the world. They want to have something happen. And your book is loaded with just incredible stories about people who've made differences. Now one of my listeners know that that's a big part of this book, because storytelling, and he's an expert at it in this book, is incredible. And the pictures, there's pictures in there too. So you address what you references your values based journey, meaning Harry's values based journey. Can you tell the listeners and viewers a little bit about the journey and how you came to write the current book? And I'd like you to include the story about stone soup and the poem by Linda Ellis called the dash, because those two stories really are good stories.

Yeah, well, Greg, it's great to be with you, and I appreciate your kind comments. I was very fortunate, Greg, because when I was a young fellow, because I really do believe so much of this starts from the legacy that other people have left for you and what you've heard from your parents and your grandparents. And you know, when I was a young fellow, my grandfather, who was from Queens, New York, he'd walk me around Central Park, and you see all these statues, and I'd say, Well, you know, boy, oh, boy. It looks like a lot of them are warriors and so on. And I said, Why is there always war? And he said, you know, Harry, in the past, it just seems like people have a very difficult time really focusing on other people, that they get caught up on themselves. They get caught up on power and what matters. And we need more people to really think through we're on this earth for a very, very short period of time. You know, he said, Hey, Harry, I don't feel much different. You're seven or eight years old. I don't feel much different than what when I was 20. But I'm 85 years old, and Harry, it goes very, very quickly, and you better start thinking really early. What kind of difference do you really want to make, and what are you waiting for? And that had a that had a very big impact on me in a very, very big way. And it's very easy, as you know, Greg, to get caught up on, oh, I need this. I need that materialism. And you know, another example, when I was a young fellow, and I may mention this in the book My My father made this comment to me. And I don't know if he made it up, Greg, or was his own, but he said, you know, Harry, have you ever seen a hearse going to a cemetery with a U haul attached to it, I'd say, what? Second he said, Harry, it seems like 90% of I know they must think all this stuff that they're gathering is going to go with them when they die, or they must think they're living forever. Because if you know you're not living forever and you can't take it with you, Harry, look at grandpa. You know they're trying not to get rid of all this. Didn't they realize when they were 50 to 30 years later, they'd be 80. And I thought, yeah, let's take the time to put this into perspective

Greg Voisen
well, and you and I can put it in a little perspective, because I'm 70 years old. So, and I think you said you were 70 as well. Is that

right? I'm turn I'm turning 70 in January. I don't feel much different than 30, Greg, but I know

Greg Voisen
so you do, you do begin to look at your finitude. You do begin to look at what's important in life. You do begin to say, how am I going to make a difference? And you know, you address early influencers in life. You you talk about these influencers, your grandfather, all kinds of influencers that you had, yeah. Can you tell us about the early influencers in your life, and how this led to you supporting now, I know how this One Acre Fund came about, but designed to eradicate poverty and hunger, because if people want to go to your website, they can just go to Harry kraemer.com and we will Put a link. I think I think it.org's I think.org Okay, sorry.org, and we'll put the right we'll put the right link up there for them. But you know these influencers, when you look at how people built stories, told stories to you, teachers that taught you, grandfathers that taught you, mother and fathers that taught you a business associates that taught you you had lots of influencers, which led you to where you are today, yeah, which is this strong support of the One Acre Fund? Yeah? Well, no, tell us a little bit about that. Yeah.

So no, so Greg, you're right. So if you're fortunate to have people, and maybe it's relatives, maybe it's friends, maybe it's somebody you met in college. But I can remember people saying, Oh, my goodness, you know, we have all these issues in the world. We have global poverty, global health care, digital divide, the environment. You know, who's going to deal with all this? And I always tease Greg that there seems to be this famous group of people out there called those guys. We are those guys. I mean, if, and it's a gender neutral term for me, right? I mean, we are the women every every man and woman, we ought to be able to do this. And I'm always encouraging people to say, you know, Hey, are you watching the movie? Are you in the movie? I mean, do you want to talk about the issue? And by the way, Greg, I'm concerned about this. I'm concerned. I'm concerned. Are you going to do anything about it? Okay? And if you remember, I think it was at a book that we've all read when we were younger, right? That was at Steve Covey, The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, where he said, there's this big circle of circle of concern, I'm concerned about everything. And then the circle of influence was this little dot. And he said, You know what, maybe we ought to make this circle of concern small enough that the Circle of Influence covers almost, because if we can't influence it, you know, what are we doing? And you mentioned this One Acre Fund. It's a great example where, you know, in talking to my students, you know, you are those guys. There was once one student at Kellogg, he actually took a trip to Africa, and he came back, and one of his comments that he made to several other professors was, you know what, I can't get over the fact there's eight or 900 million people in the world, Greg, that aren't eating very well, and they're farmers. I mean, how does a farmer start that doesn't even make a lot of sense, okay? And he said, You know what, I'm one of those guys. I literally think if we could get hybrid seeds, basic for like, we could double or triple the crop yield on these farms. And so rather than taking a Kellogg type of a job in New York or whatever, he ended up moving to Kenya, and he's been there now, I think for 1617, years. Here's sort of the stats on this, Greg, they've doubled or tripled the annual crop yield on 4 million farms. That has saved the lives of 10 to 12 million children. And I don't think he's coming back. He's got a great team of people, then they're really making a difference in the world. You know, again, you can either watch the movie or you can get in the movie.

Greg Voisen
Well, it's a great it's a great compliment to you, to have had this student who literally was taking a class from you, you know, and and you've influenced him enough to do that, you know. That leads me to this, you know, you haven't always, well, let me put this way, you probably have always been a teacher, but you were with Baxter healthcare, and in 2004 you left, and you found so many ways to give back as a values based leader, because you are values based leader at Baxter as well. What are some of the ways that you have been giving back, and what would you like to tell the listeners that are listening or watching this podcast about becoming values based leaders and the importance of leaving a legacy, some legacy somewhere, even if it's a small one. I mean, we can talk from small to big. You can have an impact by how you treat people can be a legacy. Just how you treat people,

absolutely, Greg, absolutely. I mean, every day, every day of your life, you have the ability to make a difference and and whether it is, hey, you know what? You know? Julie and I have just signed up now for next week, for Thanksgiving Tuesday night, there's a a soup kitchen that we can stay for a couple of hours. And you say, oh, geez, what you get enough people doing that in enough cities and demonstrating that we truly do care for one another. It has an enormous impact. And you set an example for everybody else. One of the stories I mentioned in the book where, you know, there was a young fellow, he was walking into a supermarket, and there was an empty crate where they were saying they're looking for coats for the winner. And it was like, on there was one coat there. And was like, What can I do by putting one coat in? Well, we put a couple in, and the next week he came in, and the thing was overflowing, absolutely overflowing. And it's sort of like, you know, just get started. Make it small. It doesn't have to be money. It can be your time. It can be an effort of your talent, of literally showing people that you really care. And to your point, also, Greg, you know, do you live your life that way? I mean, some people will be, you know, in a big company, you know, I was, I was fortunate to be a Baxter. I started out as a junior analyst, and never, ever dreaming I'd end up being the chairman and CEO. And people say, Oh, what was that like to have 55,000 people? Well, you got this powerful job, and it was like, No, I'm literally going to be a teacher. I'm literally going to I want to be my goal. I want to be a positive influence on 55,000 people in terms of how they live their life. Well,

Greg Voisen
you, you, you had a huge influence, and you had someone who influenced you. And I want to say to the listeners, they know that I have a nonprofit called compassionate communications, and as you were speaking, I give away these, these jackets this time of year that are jacket slash sleeping bags. So they're both. They're made by an organization Michigan, and they convert from a jacket into a sleeping bag. It's really cool, cool thing, right? And so I go out on the streets, and that's, that's partially what I do, and I came up with another nonprofit, but you had this gentleman in your life by the name of Bill. Now this is an amazing story, because Bill didn't have a lot, right? He wasn't, and he wasn't, like, super knowledgeable. Didn't have all these degrees. And I read the story in the book, and it really got me thinking about how anyone can have a positive impact and leave less legacy. Could you tell this heartwarming story? And what you learned from Bill, because Bill, Bill was, I thought the bill story was very cool.

Yeah, yeah, I'll try to do it. Greg. I get a little emotional, because it's an amazing guy. So, So picture this fellow. This is what Julie's brother, who, you know, it was probably six, five, maybe, close to 300 pounds, and he was a long distance truck driver, you know, had a high school education, super nice guy. I think he had, like dyslexia when he was younger. And back then, they didn't know what it was. And, you know, they thought he wasn't very smart. And I married Julie. I get to know this guy, Greg, the nicest guy in the world, okay? He had very little money. I mean, had very little money. He lived in a trailer, okay? And upside of Saint Paul and his dilapidated trailer. But then, if you go out with them, and you know, okay, we're going to have a couple beers, he would literally say, I'm going to the bathroom. And he grabbed the check, and he was like, no bill. We can pay for this. He was just there for everybody, for everything. And, you know, once in a while, if I had to go someplace, I think I mentioned the book, I had to go to New York, you know. And, of course, I'm the CEO of this company, and they get this limousine. And Bill, I said, I said, Bill, you want to come with me? So Bill, Bill shows up. He's wearing his blue jeans, you know. And this enormous guy said he'll pack a suitcase. He has a little golf bag. Okay, that a little golf bag. Here's this guy, 300 pounds. He's getting nice. Get on the airplane. Where's, where's your suitcase, right? And he would sit there, and he had a big beard. And you got these New York, you know, these New York guys in the blue striped suits. And they're thinking, Is it this? This guy must be some kind of that, you know, a billionaire, you know, entrepreneur, whatever. No, it's just bill. It was this bill. And it was just, it was amazing. And he, there was a, there was a bar in St Paul. He knew everybody. He knew everybody's name. And it was really kind of remarkable when, when he died, the owner of the place literally put up a plaque, you know, like one of those plaques for, like, the for the Hall of Fame, you know, for the basement, it's like this plaque for Bill, for Bill Jansen, you know, our friend, our guy, and there must have been 1000 people that showed up at this guy's funeral. I mean, just the nicest, most down to earth guy.

Greg Voisen
And I think, I think what our listeners can learn from that is, if you have a positive mental attitude and you go out and you do something good, not only for yourself, but for other people. It goes a long way, because people remember you. So the legacy that Bill had was a legacy of you remembering the little things that Bill did that made a huge difference. And I want you to speak with our listeners about the importance of self reflection, you say, as a tool for life and for your legacy. You have so many self reflection questions in the book. For my listeners, look when you get this book from Amazon, look for these questions at the end or the middle of the chapter, because they're everywhere in there. But these self reflection questions have been provided to you, the reader and the listener, so that you can give people a few of these contemplation and reflection. And so what I'd like you to do is, if you would, there's so many of them in the book, give the listeners a few that they actually could take away even, you know, today, Harry, if it's only two or three, yeah. But the reality is, those questions are what I call they're like fire starter, boom. You know, you you have to get going. Sometimes you can't get going because you need to have the the question asked of you, right? So what would you tell our listeners about some of those self reflection questions?

Yeah. So, So Greg, perfect and perfect. And so what I do is I take a step back a minute, because some people may be thinking, well, you know what? Why do I even need to bother what's the whole purpose? Or whatever? So I take a step back at Greg and say, All of all of your listeners, all your listeners. I gotta believe, if they stop for a moment, they realize they've got at least two or three times the number of things they like to do, then they're ever going to get done. And so immediately it's we'll just go faster and faster. This is where we multitask, right? And then they grab these devices, right? It's sort of like, Well, that'll help me. That will help me go faster? Well, take a minute to think about what's the difference between activity and productivity. All right, how much of what I'm doing really makes sense to do, what really matters, and what I advise people to do in the class my talks, whatever is in the books, is, wait a minute. Maybe the first thing I need to do is to slow down for a few minutes. I don't have a lot of time, but slow down for a few minutes and ask some fairly basic questions. Turn off the devices. Get off by yourself, maybe significant other, and just think about things like, what really are my values? What is my purpose? By the way, Greg, what really matters? This is not an advertising campaign. This isn't a job interview. It's a little bit of, you know, hey, you and I are 70, buddy and blink of an eye. It was only a couple of hours ago. I think we were 20. Okay, so, so we're here for a blink of an eye, and if you're here for a blink of an eye, how much of what I'm doing really does matter. I mean, how many hours do I really need to spend on social media? How many hours do I really need to watch television? And if somebody says, Boy, you know, I'd really like to think about my purpose. I'd really like to think about what impact do I want to have on my children. But I don't have the time. You don't have the time. I don't know. You seem to be spending hours streaming something that has no significance whatsoever, right? So, so this whole idea of, wow, and why is this important for anybody who wants to impact other people? Greg, anybody who wants to impact others in any type of way, everything around leadership literally starts with this. And people say, Well, wait a minute, knowing I don't why is that? I said, Well, think about it this way, three steps, Greg, if I'm not self reflective, is it possible for me to know myself? I don't think so. If I don't know myself, how could I possibly lead myself? I don't think so. And if I can't lead myself, how could I lead others? How could I influence others? So, so this self reflection piece, Greg, in my mind, is the key to absolutely everything. Now you can start to say to yourself, I love your comment. It's like a fire starter. Now I can actually stop and say, What am I doing? Why am I doing it? Right?

Greg Voisen
And so look for my listeners inside the book. You will find this in many spots. He just didn't put it in one spot. It's in quite a few spots. And it's important, and that leads us to this. You know, you have what you refer to as the 3c of our past to present, and I think these 3c are important. Can you address the C's, which I'll just say for my listeners, is connections, community and choices? You were just talking about choices, whether we watch TV, whether we listen to that video of whatever that's on the internet, or our choice to do something different. And I will tell you, it doesn't take that much sliver of a time to make a difference. You literally can still do those other things and make a difference, right? We're not saying denying you the enjoyment of your life or the pleasures of your life. What we're saying is, why don't you add something really cool to your life? Single speak about the three C's,

yeah. So you got connections, community and choices, as you said, Greg, and connections is literally looking around and saying to yourself, Okay, are there are there things or people that I know, that I actually think I could make a difference in their lives there they may be searching for something, and do I have the ability, maybe, to take a little time with them and actually figure out, based on where they are, the connections that could help me connect with other people and and to really make a difference. And whatever communities that you're in, right? That community could be your home, it could be your neighbors, it could be your your church, your religious institutions, it could be where you're working. And in those in those areas of community, where do you see a possible need. Where do you see you could make a difference? And an awful lot of it really does come down to your ability to be, to realize you can be an enormous example for other people, right? It's there really is an exponential impact of people seeing what you do. I mean, Greg, there was a time when, you know, I happen to mention to people, when I was at Baxter, they said, Oh, Harry, you know, what are you doing on the weekend or whatever? And I said, Well, you know, I I try to teach Sunday school to my first and second graders, and I do that for our church. And all of a sudden I'm getting all these emails from hundreds of people saying, wait a minute, you're the CEO the company, and you've got time to do that. I'm going to start doing that. And I didn't even mention it to convince somebody to do it. But your behavior, you know what? There's a there's that line, I think it was Andrew Carnegie that once said something Greg like, the older I get, the less I listen to what people say, the more I watch what they do. And so then it comes down to, you've got a lot of the connections you've been able in the community there was, you got to make a choice, right? Because you can only do so many things, because you've only got so much time. You know, you made reference to the to the third book, Greg, you're 168 I always tease everybody, well, what's 168 Okay, well, basically, people don't usually know until I tell them, How hard are you working? They'll say, I'm working. 24/7 we'll multiply 24 times seven. You usually get 168 right? So everybody on this call has got 168 hours. And it's, it's fun, Greg. It's really a lot of fun. Because when somebody says to me, I said, Hey, you know you want to, you want to come down and work, do this little Habitat for Humanity project with me, the person will say, Well, I don't have the time. Well, it's a good friend. I'll say, oh, wait a minute. You've got the time. You got $168 now, if this has been a priority, oh, that's okay, but, but you do have the time, and you got to make a choice. You got to make a choice, is it all

Greg Voisen
you want to and you also, Harry, have to decide, based on your values, where you'd like to make an impact. I know you were with Baxter healthcare for a long time, making a positive impact on people's lives in healthcare. And I had a doctor recently, very, very good friend, Dr Steve Berman, approached me and said, Will you help me with this noetic medicine initiative that's being led by Him and Dr Andrew Weil, which, just to give you an idea, it's really about how what caregivers and doctors say to patients affects the outcome of their treatment, just how they treat them. So I literally got behind this initiative, and I've started the campaign to raise $20 million that will then go in to the research to say, hey, and you know this because of Baxter, you know placebo, nobivo, no evil. In other words, Hey, what is truly the effect? And they've proven already, just in early studies. This is just to show you, people, listeners out there, it has an amazing impact on the outcome of your diagnosis, an amazing outcome. So I want you to tell your story, because there's two questions I'm going to blend into one. One is the significance of this gentleman, Eugene, in a small town in Oregon. It started every one village. Now I look at that as a grassroots program. So in the book, you're telling people to get involved potentially in grassroots programs. Start your own grassroots program. My charity was grassroots. I'm the charity. I'm basically it. I'm the one that filed for the 501, c3, and I go out and give money to the homeless. That's about as grassroots as it gets. But that question then is, what? How would you leave our listeners who maybe want to start something but don't know how to start or get involved with something, but have this trepidation or fear about getting involved with doing something grassroots. Because I want you to tell the everyone village story, because you put tons of pictures in there, they were great, yeah. And then I want you to talk about you did another one about helping the river get clean. I mean, you've got so many great stories in your book, but if you could just tell those two stories, I think that'd be great,

yeah. Well, the second one quickly was, you know, people that I knew that were in Oregon that said, hey, you know what? We can talk about all the climate problems. We can talk about all the issues we can talk about that our rivers are polluted, or whatever. Or we can say, Well, wait a minute, you know what? What if I on a Saturday, just go out there and start getting some people who know more than I do, and figuring out, how can we clean the rivers? How can we move some of this brush that's in the way of where the river's flowing so that it can actually be moving? How can we make sure and understand how everything we're doing is going to impact not us but our children and our grandchildren? And you got people that like Benning was just a few people. Now it's hundreds of people, a lot of good friends of mine, on a Saturday morning. You know, it's a Saturday morning. Hey, instead of going on play golf, you know, I don't, it's not something I have to dedicate a tremendous amount of time to, but I can actually see how we're cleaning the river, how we're cleaning up the community, how we're making a difference. And it's something that it's growing faster and faster, and a lot of the younger people now Greg are saying, you know, hey, my parents talked about all these issues, but for whatever reason, didn't have time, or didn't dedicate the time. Well, we are going to dedicate the time. And my friends are telling me, there's a lot of younger people now that on the weekends, are helping out, and now they've got hundreds of people that are doing that

Greg Voisen
well. And I want to make a point that you're making very so I'm going to add to it. There have been plenty, plenty of research done that when you do something for somebody else, the oxytocin's that are released into your system are far greater than if you're not doing that. So if you want to feel good, really, truly feel good, physically, about going out and doing something. Go clean up a river bank, go build like Jimmy Carter did, the Habitat for Humanity. In this case, it was every one village, right? And these were these small, little houses I saw the pictures that people could move into, you know, go out with me on a weekend and go find homeless people and give them a sleeping bag to sleep in, right? It really does feel good when you're done. And the point is, is that it's a small act of kindness that multiplies so big. I love this story that you told about being aware, because we know in this country, this is a big deal the opioid drug overdoses. Yeah, and you tell this story about Christopher Wolf and the Christopher wolf crusade, and his mom, Cami, started with this, wanted to impact of what they call Life Care Specialist in six hospitals in Georgia, and she ultimately tell her tell the audience what ended up happening, because it was a phenomenal little story that turned into something fantastic. Yeah.

And Greg, yeah. Thank you. It really is I love what you said, because one of the key things is you say, Oh, I'm really busy. I got a lot to do. Oh, you know what? Maybe I should do that too, without realizing to your comment, it and just increases your your happiness increases. You get the most benefit out of it, right? I mean, I get so much benefit of teaching leadership in a world you and I live in, in now, with all the polarization to have a small impact on people that are going to hopefully move things in a much better direction than where we're headed now, I mean, your ability to make a difference, it just gets you excited. It makes a difference. And in the case of Cami, the beauty of this story was, here's a woman who has a son who's got goes through a serious illness, ends up on opioids, and ends up with an addiction and dies. And it would have been unbelievably easy for this lady, you know, whoa, about me, and this is terrible. And just, you know, just worrying about herself. And she said, Wait a minute, I can either do that, or I can be one of the people making a difference in the world, and she did enough research to realize something Greg and even in healthcare, for 40 years, I didn't realize that in medical school, these students have to learn so many things about the body everything else, they spend almost zero time on pain management, and that's why Greg, when if you go to a doctor and you got pain, oh, here, here's some pills. Here's some pills, as opposed to, wait a minute. Wait a minute. What if we give better physical therapy? What if we actually took people for a walk? What if we literally did a little meditation? Okay? And she's created this, this ability now, as you correctly said in these hospitals, to say, hey, let's have a pain management person there, so that maybe, maybe we can give a lot less drugs. Maybe we can keep people a lot healthier. And I view her as an example, Greg, of that comment of, you know what? We can watch the movie. We can talk about how bad things are. We can actually do something about or we

Greg Voisen
can be in the movie. We can make the movie. We can be the movie. We can make it. It's interesting you say this because coming up, actually, today. And so for my listeners, I'm going to hold this up, because I think this is very cool, because of what you just said. This is a book by a doctor super psyched four types of connection. He's speaking mainly Harry, about the loneliness epidemic. And the reality is, we know that people who are shut in, people who are lonely, it creates higher levels of disease. It creates a higher levels of psychosis, challenges that people have. We need to actually, as you said, go take somebody on a walk. Go do something. Let them speak, understand, let them be heard. Find out what's going on with them. Offer some help and assistance and advice if you can. So these are all small things, but this led to this Christopher Wolf, she ended up getting a million dollar grant, and that was a huge deal, and I really want to thank you for telling that story, because that's a big one. Now I want to circle back and there's two things I want to kind of finish up our interview with this young man who was in your class, Andrew, young Andrew. Yoon. Yoon, yeah, um, he's the one who started the One Acre Fund, right? Yeah, and you have gotten incredibly involved in the One Acre Fund. It's at your website. Harry kraemer.org, just for my listeners, make sure that's right. He was your student, and as you said, 17 years now, doing that, can our listeners go to One Acre Fund or just go to Harry kraemer.org To make a donation, sure your nonprofit, or to this nonprofit,

yeah? Well, thanks, Greg, yeah. If they, if they go oneacrefund.org, o n e Acre fund.org, they can do that. And I think it's something now like something every $150 is enough, enough to help another family get the right fertilizers and basic seeds to make an impact on their lives, and they can actually double or triple the crop yield. I mean, I I found it so fascinating that I realized a lot of times you want to make a difference. It's a lot a lot of money. Well, in this case, your ability to do something in a small way has an amazing impact. And with the first book that you made reference to, what happened with me Greg was when the first book, I didn't even realize it until the first book came out, but when I realized the first book is called from values to action. I called him, and Kenyon said, You know what, you're the best example I know of from values to action. So when I'm not teaching and I'm not on boards, I said, originally, I said, once a month I will do leadership talks, and all the proceeds from my talks, the speaker fees, and all the proceeds from the books, all is going to go the one acre. I'm going to do one a month. Well, just I'm

Greg Voisen
going to make a donation, and I want to give you a referral. I have a friend here in California who is creating a documentary about the Land Institute in Salina Kansas. Now it's run by a man who believes that how the soils are cultivated in our country are making such a huge difference. Now this is, this is an amazing Institute, and it is changing the yield of the crops. So I'm going to put you in touch with Michael Johnson, the one making the documentary, and so that you could bring this knowledge to Kenya. Fantastic. This is, this is a phenomenal thing, believe me, when we go offline, I'll tell you more, yeah, but you know, I want to kind of sum up the interview with you kind of come all the way to the end of this book, and you show these great pictures of Gallagher and the Gallagher Foundation, and it's an example of how legacy can live from generation to generation, right? So, you know, I think most people are saying, Okay, well, if I leave a legacy, how long will that last? Right? I know a lot of people out there that listen, some of them have family offices, right? And a family office is a very wealthy family trying to have these things perpetuate from generation to generation. We find some businesses the last three generations, sometimes four, but not usually much more than that. So what would you want to leave listeners with about how to make a difference at every age and every phase of their life?

Yeah, well, so like we said before, Greg, I think you want to start early. I think you want to get you know. If you say, oh, I want to be a good person, I want to make a difference, but I better do that later, when I got more time, was you. And I know you don't have more time as you there's other things to do. So you want to start early, and then you, I think you want to get your children involved. If you have, if you're blessed to have grandchildren, you want to get them involved. And you want to find ways that people can actually see the impact that you're making. And it was interesting because JP, Gallagher's father just happened, and I mentioned in the book, happened to be, you know, on a golf trip and in Africa, in South Africa, and realized that some of the people that were the people driving the carts around, you know, couldn't even write their name. And he said, You know what, I think we're going to start some scholarships, and we're going to do that. And then he said, I'm going to set up a small foundation to that. I'll get people to to contribute. And he passed away. And then JP and his sister said, we're going to continue this. And they've already got their their children and their grandchildren involved in it. And when you can see the difference that you're making step by step around the world, you know what? We're no longer watching the movie. We're in the movie, or, as you say, we're making the movie. And I think when people may say, Well, I don't have very much money, I think money is a very small part of this, your effort, your time, your focus, the example you set. Can I say, I can ignite the world, and you can make a difference, no matter where you are at every age or whatever phase, phase of life you're at.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, no, Harry, you're absolutely right. I mean, people say, can they make a gift meaning and a donation of money? That's actually probably the easiest one, the most difficult one for most people, is time. Yeah, so it's, it's your time, your treasure in your talent? Absolutely, that's what we always say in nonprofits, time, treasure and talent. Well, I have talent. I have I know something I could lend, right which is important treasure, it's cash and time is, are you going to work on the front lines? You can actually go out with Jimmy Carter and bang some nails and put up some Habitat for Humanity. And

then, as you said, also, Greg, you can actually have a lot of fun doing it. You know when, when the first book came out, from values to action? And I called him and I said, I'll tell you what. I will try to do a talk a month and do it. Well, guess what? I've got into this. There is a need for people to know more about value based leadership. I love doing it. And so instead of once a month, I've averaged chief two a week for the last now 15 years. I think my talk with you today is my 1,583rd talk on any aspect of this. And to me, I love doing it, and we make an enormous difference on now your listeners and the more people we can get involved without without realizing how big of a difference this can make. Well, I'm

Greg Voisen
going to read a little quote from the back of the book, and you and I talked about this gentleman, Greg case, CEO of a on PLC. And it says your values, your values based legacy, is required reading for anyone seeking to understand what it means to build a compelling legacy, both philosopher and practitioner, Harry offers powerful guidance at every point of our lives. My most valuable empathy, meaningful legacy, starts at the beginning and never stops, far from being an end of my career phenomenon. I think the most important thing here is, you know, you can leave a legacy. It's not that difficult folks. It's surprising. The charities that have started from people from just an idea that they had and have blossomed and have been here for a long time, so you are actually helping people. You're bringing this in front of them. You're making aware of it. And so even if you don't want to start your own go get involved with another one. Go find one that that really floats your boat. There's so many out there that could use your hope. Believe me, there they are really just waiting for volunteers to come through the door and help them with some phase of what they're doing. I want to thank you for being on inside personal growth and sharing this such an important message with people. And your energy, Harry, you have an infectious energy. So thank you for that. You get very excited. And I like that because it gets our listeners excited. So go take you know, there's one thing to listen to, something after you listen to this. Go, take action. Go, take some action. The first action would be to buy the book. The second action would be to read the compelling questions that he asks you for a reflection, right? And then from there, choose where you'd like to donate your time, talent or treasure. That would be the best thing that you could do would be the outcome from this. Thanks Harry for being on inside gross personal growth. Namaste to you. Thank you so much. Thank

you. A lot of fun. Good, great. Good luck with everything going forward.