Returning for this podcast is the author of upcoming book Master Mentors Volume 2: 30 Transformative Insights from Our Greatest Minds, Scott Jeffrey Miller. His new book is set to be released on October 11, 2022. We also had Scott promote the book’s first version here in Inside Personal Growth last year. If you want to check that, you may click here.

Scott defines himself as an unfiltered leader thriving in a highly filtered corporate culture and that he is journeying to own his story (and moving from Mess to Success) and inspiring others to uncover and own theirs. He built a 26-year career in the world’s most respected and influential leadership development firm serving in nearly every role imaginable. Aside from this, he is also a multi-bestselling author, radio and podcast host, leadership coach, columnist, and global keynote speaker.

Meanwhile, on this second volume of Master Mentors, whether you are challenged, affirmed, informed, or inspired, Scott guarantees you will experience a transformative shift in your personal mindset, life skillset, and career toolset.

If you’re interested to know more about Scott and his amazing works, you may click here to visit his website.

I hope you enjoy my engaging interview with Scott Jeffrey Miller. Happy listening!

THE BOOK

Depending on where you are in your journey, Master Mentors will:

  • Challenge your current mindset and beliefs, leading to what could be the most important career and thought process shifts of your life!
  • Restore you to the mindset and beliefs you find effective but aren’t currently living in alignment with.
  • Validate that you are on the right path with your current mindset and beliefs and empower you on your way forward.

THE AUTHOR

Scott built a 26-year career in the world’s most respected and influential leadership development firm serving in nearly every role imaginable. His professional roles evolved as he became a multi-bestselling author, radio and podcast host, leadership coach, columnist, and global keynote speaker. He continues to consult with FranklinCovey and is proud to continue their collaboration as he expands his own influence through new books, speeches, and coaching offerings.

 

You may also refer to the transcripts below for the full transciption (not edited) of the interview.

Greg Voisen
Hey, well welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. This is Greg Voisen and the host of Inside Personal Growth. And I have Scott Miller joining us from Salt Lake City, Utah. Yay, Scott. Hey Scott, you have two different shirts on, is it?

Scott Jeffrey Miller
A fall so it was a chilly this morning. So I had this short sleeve shirt on and I had the takedown on my car driving my son's to school. So I ended up putting, like a thermal shirt under it. So pardon my pardon this it was a fall kind of thing this morning.

Greg Voisen
Well, you know, the interesting thing is, is Scott was on the show, back in October of 2021. For the master mentor Number One Series. We're just now approaching one year and he said he was going to do this. This was master mentor number two, where he's chosen 30 more people that are part of this series that he's on. And I want to let my listeners know a little bit about you a Scott is a highly sought after speaker, author and podcast host. He is Wall Street Journal Best Selling Author and currently serves as Franklin Covey Senior Advisor on thought leadership prior to his advisory roles, Scott was a 25 year Franklin Covey associate serving as the Chief Marketing Officer and Executive Vice President. He hosts the on leadership with Scott Miller where you can get that you can just go to Scott miller.com. And that's where you can pick up more about him world's largest and fastest growing weekly leadership podcast. So Scott, I know you put a lot of effort in this, and I appreciate you as an individual and in person. And you've chosen 30 people, you and I were just going through the list, comparing notes of who the people were that we both have interviewed for our shows. And we just shared some intellectual property between people. And I appreciate that because, you know, your series focuses on leadership, but it focuses on a lot more spokes on marketing. It's focused on sales. But in the introduction of the book, you spoke about Bruce Williams, the most influential mentor in your life, somebody that you've never met or had a conversation with, but absolutely your master Minar. Can you share the story with the listeners and why you're so passionate about doing this series on master mentoring? I think you've got planned what five it is or how many 10 volumes, volumes. Okay, well, that means every year he's going to be doing volume, maybe sooner. So tell us about Bruce Williams, and why he's your master mentor.

Scott Jeffrey Miller
I'd be honored. Greg, thanks again for the spotlight and the platform. You know, I have a lot in common. We'd like to shine the spotlight on other people. I think you and I have maybe we're brothers from a different mother. Then I opened the book master mentors Volume Two where I shine the spotlight on 30 new mentors drawn for the podcast 10 Year 10 volume book deal with HarperCollins. I just finished volume three, by the way, we'll come out next October. Great people of volume three. Robin Sharma, Arianna Huffington, Mel Robbins, Deepak Chopra, Adam Grant, it's gonna be great. Volume three is going to be awesome. Yeah. But to your point, I'm kind of redefining what it means to be mentor to be a mentor. Most of us think of our mentors as being in the C suite on the fourth floor or 10th floor. It's somebody you go and meet with weekly for coffee. And that's also true. But I also think that if you really think about it, most of us have been mentored by people that don't know who we are. Perhaps we read their books, we listen to their podcasts, we go follow them at conferences to hear their speeches. And one such person for me was a man named Bruce Williams. He really founded this whole idea of talk radio back in the 80s. He had a radio program Monday through Friday for three hours. It was sort of like Dave Ramsey meets a Shark Tank, right where you called it and you ask questions, and he was a lawyer and entrepreneur, I think he was like at a town council, and kind of homespun wisdom, but really good experience based wisdom where he talked about why you needed a will, why you needed an attorney to close a real estate transaction, right? What was term insurance versus home insurance and he just gave you good advice on how to manage your finances, launch a business care for your family and he actually launched Sally Jessy Raphael, she actually was a psychiatrist or psychologist and he helped to launch her after his program. But anyway, after listening to Bruce Williams radio show during junior high school and high school for nearly eight years, three hours a night when most of my friends are probably listening to YouTube on there or not YouTube you to on the radio I was listening to this Colin talk show. My point is Bruce Williams died not even knowing Scott Miller was alive, never met him never interviewed him, never spoke to him. But without question, Bruce Williams was the most influential mentor in my life. This I opened the book master mentors talking about him to remind you all that the 30 people that are in master mentors are that 300 of my podcast or the hundreds from Greg's podcast, they can absolutely be your mentors, as you take insights, what to do, what not to do, what to say what not to say, I very much believe that we learn more from people's mistakes than we do their successes. I don't have Greg's wisdom, I don't have Greg's Good luck. I don't have Greg's finances, I can't replicate what Greg does. Well, for the most part, what I can do is I can learn from his mistakes and learn from his foibles and avoid them. Heck, half the success in life is just not doing stupid stuff, quite frankly. So that's why I opened the story, not as a master mentor, but as an intro to kind of re scope what it means to have mentors in your life, recognizing that you are probably the mentor to other people that you don't even know it.

Greg Voisen
I'm sure maybe there's some out there that you know, are faithful listeners, maybe I'm a mentor, too. But I think more importantly is I go back to we were talking about Cynthia holler cubby and the book, Life and crescendo, about contribution. You know, I think for me, this show is about how can I contribute to people? How can I help and serve in a way and you know, my nonprofit compassionate communications that serves the homeless? To me, this is a way to give back. And you know, you state that your hope in authoring the book is to present master mentors to the listeners to invite them to enter a similar type of relationship with any of the mentors presented in the book of which there's 30. Can you tell the story about how you selected these 30 mentors for this one, you just talked about volume three already. And you gave us you dropped some really big names in there like Deepak and all the rest of them. And now and how their transformational insights resonated with Scott Miller. Yeah, no more importantly, because you know, when you're an author, regardless of if it's picking interviews, or whatever it might be, you can only have to carefully go through Scott, and choose what you think's going to resonate with your audience and what you want to get out. And I'm really curious to get into your head as to how you select it. I have a very short little, teeny list here, but I see your list, how you selected these people

Scott Jeffrey Miller
and why. You know, Greg, both publishers will tell authors don't write for you right for your audience. And I think that's smart. By that, I always follow that wisdom. Because what I've done is I've written what resonated with me as a father, as a husband, as a brother as a, as a, as a parent, as an entrepreneur, as a leader. As a guy who has a stutter. As the guy who wishes he had a higher net worth and wish I had better friendships, right? I'm just a normal guy, make it through life everyday trying to pay the mortgage and raise three kids and keep my marriage together and be paid for their college. I'm lucky. So I what I did is I curated insights that I thought would help my life because I don't think I'm that different than most people, right? I say stupid things. And I do stupid things. I offer apologies. And I'm jealous. And I'm insecure. And I'm successful. I'm a hard worker, I'm just like everybody else in the world. I have a little more courage than most people that sometimes serves me well. And sometimes it doesn't. But what I did is I tried to curate 30 people that I think have a transformational insight shared on the podcast, or maybe even off. As you know, most of the good stuff is shared before and after the camera goes live, right? So with their permission, I curated 30 insights that I thought would help people and all their roles in life, but they're intentionally episodic. It might be about your personal finance or building your brand or parenting or entrepreneurship or creating better systems for your business or just thinking about your legacy or your family traditions. It's very episodic intentionally. And so I shared a spotlight on people from different backgrounds. I tried to mix it up with different people from different nationalities and if different races, different genders, different generations, different industries. Some of them are world famous celebrities, and some of them you've never heard of, but they survived a commercial Pakistani plane crash and live to tell about it. And there are amazing lessons from his story. So I try not to make it a jumbled mess, but a little bit of a, you know, read it at night for 12 minutes as you're going to bed, close the book and pick it up tomorrow, not having to remember what you read the day before. So that's kind of how I like to read books as short chapters. I asked some profound questions, I share some stories on myself. I think it's working pretty well, because volume one, slowly Well, in Volume Two is sold out. The book launches in about two weeks. And it's already sold out at preorder. And I'm delighted about that. So those printing presses better start running.

Greg Voisen
So question, I got the impression and I want to give this correctly to my listening audience. You have cards with this one with QR codes on it? I do. And those QR codes are designed to take the listener exactly where so the cards and the book are purchased together, right?

Scott Jeffrey Miller
Well, no, not exactly. So in the book at the end of each chapter, I have a QR code. QR code takes you exactly to that podcast episode, both video and audio like you my podcast was on video. So those QR codes are at the end of each chapter. But additionally, when I speak on the book, which is multiple times a week, headed to Croatia tomorrow to speak on it. I actually don't use PowerPoint, I only use card deck. So every keynote I give, there actually is a printed card deck that comes in a little box, I don't use slides, and on the back of each of the mentors, that the inside is shared. But there also is the QR code on the back of the card deck that also will take you to their episodes. So if you liked the episode with John Gordon, the energy bus right or Bobby Herrera or Marie Forleo, the car deck at my keynote speeches takes you right to their podcast. But those same QR codes are in the printed book as

Greg Voisen
you can our listeners get those cards or those cards are only available at your speech.

Scott Jeffrey Miller
Listen, if your listeners want to send me a message on LinkedIn, and connect to me, and give me their shipping address, I will send them a complimentary set of cards. I love to buy the book, you don't have to buy the book to get the card decks, it'd be a nice thing. But if you want to find me on LinkedIn, you can't miss me. Send me a message. Tell me you saw me on Greg's awesome podcast and give me your shipping address. I won't come to your house, I promise I'll ship you your free deck of cards.

Greg Voisen
Well, I got that there's a QR code in the book. So if they get the book, they're gonna get the same thing really, in essence. But sometimes, you know, you never know they want to share a card with somebody and say here, go, you know, I'm thinking for you. Because this book is doing so well. The cards ought to be out there with the people and they ought to be sharing it said just bought this great master mentor, Volume Two series. Here's a card and go listen to this podcast, buy the book.

Scott Jeffrey Miller
It's true. I want to be thoughtful not to put that mentors in a position that I'm not selling their image turn monies I generally don't sell the car deck God, we provide it with our keynotes. But out of respect to the mentors,

Greg Voisen
you're doing an amazing job of organizing the content in the data in the book. And the first part of the book you featured a very sad story about Zafar is that Assad particularly sorry, shoot yes to May 20, 2020. Can you tell the listeners let the listeners more a little bit about that story and insights because that's a very interesting story.

Scott Jeffrey Miller
He's the opening mentor in Volume Two master mentor number 31 His name is a Pharmaceut he is the CEO of the Bank of Punjab a large bank in Pakistan. And as the CEO of this bank, he flies between the offices quite frequently Lahore to Karachi always seats sits and seat one B this class aisle seat this particular flight was just after the pandemic had exploded and airlines were back in the air fairly. He gets to the airport early one day and notices that the airline has been seat one he always sits the seat one bit when b manages to get his seat changed. Moved to one B plane takes off our so flight the plane lands in Lahore, but as soon as the plane lands it takes back off again kind of a really rough landing plane takes back off again comes back around for a second landing and what no one knew was that the pilots had failed to lower the landing gear. This is a this is you know reputable airline in Pakistan. Anyone here could fly it if you were over in Asia. The pilots have forgot to lower the landing gear so when they landed they damaged the engines irreparably. plane comes back around, crashes and explodes in a residential area hits all these buildings and Zafar Massoud survives. 98 passengers and crew perish. Two people live two passengers So far in one other person. Wow. So far the plane breaks apart so far seat leaves the plane with him still buckled in, falls from the sky. Now listen everybody to this. It's incomprehensible. He falls from the sky up right? Alive, unconscious on fire strapped into his airline seat, it hits the top of the building slides down. And he lands on the hood of a car upright, strapped in alive, unconscious on fire. There are two young men sitting in the car, getting ready to turn it on to go to work that morning. And all of a sudden, all the windows blow out of their car, including the windshield, and they come to you and there's a man sitting on their hood, alive, upright, and the airline seat on fire unconscious. They rescue him. And he lives with enormous survivor's grief. survivor's guilt, to tell this story. And the insight in the book is what do you do when you survived? commercial airline crash? What's next? If I write a whole series of questions around, what would you do what's next for you and I shared some Tinder stories around as a dad, I gotta create some more traditions for our three sons, their eight, their 10 of their 12. And I got to live every day as if I just survived the airline crash. And I'm gonna go take the roll by storm. So that's just one of 30 like jaw dropping stories, people that survived massive traumas or people that you know, just did something really cool by working their butts off and what you can learn from it?

Greg Voisen
Well, I know for a fact that the experience, you know that when they sit when they say write a book, you know, you had me on the edge of the seat there with the story not only the way you told it, but I'm sure the way he experienced it as well. But the point is, it's about the experience. And they always say to right, if you're in a theater whispering in someone's ear something special, right? I always love that. And Scott, you might not have been whispering right now. But the message that came through as a mentor was what more can you contribute as a result of this tragic event? The tragedy that you had in your life. Can you like you said, you started writing questions for your sons? What more can I do now? To make this better, right to make this world a better place? And you have so many people in there you have BJ Fogg, you know, Guy Kawasaki, and you've got all these great mentors in there, and many have been on my show. You've read a MoGraph, seeing around corners, you know, all this. There's a chapter in there from Sean Covey. And you state that he shared his opinion about the differences between self-worth self-esteem and self-confidence. And I think this is really important out of the nine children. Cynthia is the oldest, right? But out of the nine children. What I realized from Cynthia that most of the world probably doesn't know is that Stephen Covey, tried to treat all of his children equally tried, but wasn't always a success, but tried. In other words, think about that, as a father with how busy he was trying to spend time with all of these nine children and spread his time and do an inner she tells a great story in there. They all sound quite similar. And I'm talking about Shawn cubby right now. And I think most of us lump them into a similar category. I know I certainly did. What advice can you give the listeners about self-worth self-esteem and self-confidence as it relates to the Sean Connery story? Because all of us as a father, as a husband, you're now trying to live your life so that you can give your children equal time, right? And you're trying to bring them up with self-worth, self-confidence, self-esteem, whatever it might be. Tell the story in the book, and how that impacted you and how as a mentor, you saw it as something you needed to tell.

Scott Jeffrey Miller
Thanks, Greg, with your point. Sean Covey is one of the nine children of the iconic author, Dr. Stephen R. Covey, who wrote the seminal book The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People and was the genesis now at the Franklin Covey company, the world's largest and most trusted leadership firm in the world. He also is the author of many books, including The Seven Habits of Highly Effective teams, which is the most successful team leadership book in history. Sean is the president of our of our education division and he runs an Ironman as active team for a decade together, I think of all the things that Sean Covey has taught me which are immense. One day in passing a decade ago, Sean, he's been on the podcast, Sean said to me, he wrote a book called the six most important decisions you'll ever make. And it's a book written aimed at teenagers. I think it's a masterpiece. And I read it as a single guy like 10 years ago, wasn't even married yet had no kids wasn't married, playing tennis, traveling the world. I read the book one day in a plane and said, Shawn, from this book is amazing. The six most important decisions you'll ever make too great book if you're a parent. And then in this conversation, Shawn taught me the difference between self-worth, self-esteem and self-confidence. And I think that big insight is we tend to use those terms, I think a bit interchangeably, unconsciously, right. self-worth, self-esteem, self-confidence. No, they're actually quite different. Sean taught me the concept that your self-worth is creator given. If you're religious, it's God given if you're not, it's some something created you but Sean believes that your self-worth is inherent, all of us have the same amount of self-worth. You can't lessen it or increase it your self-worth is complete. And all of us have the same self-worth its creator, given. I thought I'm a religious person. But I thought even if I wasn't, that seems logical to me, no one can impact adversely or positive my self-worth because my self-worth is the same as Sean Covey says, and I write a tinder story about how sometimes I was quite jealous of Sean Covey, and the executive team meetings because he was always Well, how was your father? How is your mother, no one ever asked how my mother or my father was. And I always felt a little inferior to the celebrities and the cubby family. And it had nothing to do with them, it had to do with me, my self-worth was the same as Sean Covey's Roger Federer or Brene, brown, or you name it myself with the same. Now my self-confidence and my self-esteem vary wildly based on lots of things, right? How I view myself, what are my priorities? What are my values? And so I really wanted people to understand your self-worth is inherent. And don't let anybody try to lessen it, because they can't. And either, can you focus on your self-esteem, and your self-confidence, read the book to learn how we define those and some of the things that can lessen them or strengthen them, recognizing that, you know, if you assess and judge yourself on measures that truly matter, no one, nothing can decrease, or maybe even increase your self-esteem, your self-confidence because you're in control of it. Second Chapter,

Greg Voisen
I think that's the most important thing is that you are in control of it. Now, the other insight from a psychological standpoint is that's what we have to work on. That's why we call this personal growth mastery. That's why we talk at human potential movement. It's because it's our job to take responsibility for our own potential. It's nobody else's job. You and I, every day when we get on a podcast, and these words flow through these speakers that people are listening to. It could be one sentence, it could be a paragraph, it could be something. But that has to stick with somebody. And then somebody has to take it and do some action with it. Something other than just Oh, that was a great podcast that Greg voice and did with Scott Mellon. No, it isn't about the 1000s of words. It's maybe about the 15 or 16 words that you take from this, like what Scott just said, I think the delineation between self-worth, self-confidence, self-esteem, those are really important. It's really important. Now,

Scott Jeffrey Miller
Greg, Greg, quick introduction, when I wanted to feature Sean Covey. I mentioned this and Sean said, Yeah, I don't know much about that. I don't know you should feature me on that topic. And I said, no, actually, Shawn, it was profound. Now I'm not I'm not an intellectual, right? I don't, I don't have a background in philosophy or the human condition. I'm just a guy trying to get along. But I found it profound. Just understanding there is a difference in IQ, and you can or cannot raise them based on which one they are. And quite frankly, if you're in control, nothing anybody else does can impact any of the three of those so you have complete control over it.

Greg Voisen
Well, it's a great point you made and again, if that one point gets through today to the listening audience, it's going to be it's going to be great. No, we boast at both had Chester Elton on. Yes, Chester? This Tapti about things it in the workplace with just no luck. We all went through this COVID Together, we are plenty of anxiety in the workplace. Now we're seeing inflation the way it is. And people are looking at, you know, maybe jobs being rolled off and whatever and they anxiety am I going to be able to do it is you state that you learned the most about branding from Chester? Can you tell our listeners about Chester Elton, and the teachings that he shared with you about branding? And while you're at it, you know, look, this anxiety in the workplace is a real thing. We've all been talking about this for a long time. So I love Chester. I love what he's doing. He and his partner. Great. Yep. Great book. Tell us why you picked Chester. Yeah, one of your 30.

Scott Jeffrey Miller
I'm gonna address both of your points. So Chester Elton, of course, is a very famous author, coach, podcast or speaker. He's really known about employee appreciation. He's written extensively about how to build cultures where people feel appreciated and valued and choose to stay. He's written extensively about gratitude. And his last book was called anxiety in the workplace. And it really had a profound impact on me, I do not suffer from depression or anxiety. I do not have suicidal tendencies or ideation. I don't know if it's my genetics or my personality or my environment. But I'm very blessed not to be afflicted by that, but one of my employees is. And a man who works for me in his 20s has crippling clinical depression, and anxiety, and has some PTSD and is an absolute genius MacGyver, and you work super hard. And there are times when he can't come to work for four days, because he's considering taking his life. I mean, it's that's how severe it is. And he's under the under the therapy of a physician, and he has medications that change periodically, and he mentioned his distress really well. And as a hard charging entrepreneur, it's hard for me not to have to employ a guy, that I'm paying him out of my kid's college budget, right, and our business not to come to work for four days. And so I've had to really change my mentality to understand how to create a culture, I don't cause him more stress, because his value to me is incalculable when he is working, which is the vast majority of time. So I actually turn the chapter over to my associate this 25 year old kid, and I he writes an open letter to all of those people who do have anxiety. And then he writes a similar open letter to all the Scott Miller leaders who don't on how to work with him. It's a lovely chapter, I basically turn it over to my 25 year old employee named Drew Young. Now, to answer your other question around Cestrum brand, you know, for those of you who know, Chester, you know, he wrote a very famous book called the carrot principle with his business partner, Adrian god sick. And he became sort of known as the apostle of appreciation. He's very animated. He wears orange. Everywhere he goes, he gives out little stuffed carrot plush carrots in the audience, and he says hysterical, he's insanely competent, and he's a wildly fun engaging entertainer. And so you might think that his brand is the guy that wears orange glasses and socks Norge tie, that's it. That's also true. But Chester's real blunt brand is he's loyal. He holds competences. He's punctual. He makes and keeps commitments. He doesn't gossip. I text Chester, I need your wisdom for 10 minutes. My planes landing in Dublin and 30 I'll call you then. Chester. I need 15 minutes to walk through an issue I've got. I'm coming off the stage in 30 minutes. I'll call you on my way to the airport. I mean, he's just always there for me. I think his brand is a guy who shows up for his friends and he makes and keeps commitments and doesn't gossip and keeps confidences and so the brand that I want to reinforce his independent of his you know, onstage razzle dazzle, you know, a posture of appreciation. It's hysterical. He's an amazing keynoter. That's his show. At the end of the day off air, he is smart and wise and contemplative and deliberate. And I've said it for the third time, Chester simply makes and keeps commitments and when he can't, he calls you up and said, my bad. I made a mistake. I can't do that deal because I just reviewed my contract that precludes me I'm sorry. How can I make it up to you that actually happened with Chester and I ask yourself with your brand beyond whether you wear cufflinks or how you dress or what kind of briefcase you carry. What's your real brand? Do you make and keep commitments? Do you tell the truth When you inflate something, do you say actually that's not true? If you ever in meeting say, you know what? Whose idea was that? Oh, yeah, mom, that was ridiculous. Who's got a better idea than that right is are you there to be the genius or to quote Liz Wiseman? Are you there to be the genius maker of others and I hope in this chapter, which is mainly focused on anxiety and how to lead employees who have anxiety, crippling or just, you know, less so that you also think about what your brand is, as well and have you behaved your wreck? Have you behave yourself into the brand you deserve and want?

Greg Voisen
And I think you speak with Chester about character, because his brand is character, both as a character, and his character stands for itself, just what you said, because of his integrity, his humility, his ability to come back to you and say, look, I messed up, how can I make it up to you? His honesty, his trust, all the words you want to use to describe our character? And that brand becomes a character, you know that. It's like Scott Miller. He's a character. And he's got a great brand. Yep. Now shifting gears a bit. I became pretty good friends with David seventh. And as a result of me doing, I'm going to say idea salon solve next. I'm very much into visual learning. You've had David on the show. And He's authored several books about visual learning and as a firm in San Francisco. Yep. And he is, in my estimation, and I'm not going to put anybody on a pedestal. He's the grandfather of Yes.

Scott Jeffrey Miller
Really? Yes. Yes, absolutely. Probably

Greg Voisen
in his late 70s. Now, and but, again, you just talked about Chester in character. I have never met a man. So more impeccable than David civet. About how he works with people in Visual Learning. Talk with us. Why did you choose David civet? And why was visual learning of a guy like yourself? Who's like literally like, oh, you know, really interesting to you.

Scott Jeffrey Miller
I so hope people buy the book. Because the chapter on David Sibbett is worth the book alone. David Sibbett. To your agreement is the Godfather, Grandfather of visual communication with a litany of books called Visual leadership, visual meetings, visual communication. He's a master artist is but what he's done brilliantly is he's communicated what he calls seven frames and seven figures, that anybody like me who is not a visual artist can use to build your credibility inside of your organization. For example, when you are in a team meeting at the CTOs house, and you're unfortunately, given the magic marker, and your job is to go up to the chart pattern capture the notes for two days or two hours, you don't know whether to put the information into a four box model or into a Venn diagram or how to how to draw stick people are, you know, all that kind of stuff. And I'm actually I think competent, verbal communicator, I was stutter, I'm a lifelong stutter. I've mentioned that frequently. And it has sometimes hijacked my vision by verbal communication. But what I've often been jealous of is that same person that they get that marker, unfortunately, to be the Proctor and then they just beautifully capture all the information. They know what to capture what not to capture, how to organize it, how to emphasize it. I think it's an art. Now perhaps it's an art more so when we were less hybrid and less virtual, but a lot of us are very much back in the offices to some extent. And we're in meetings and we're looking to influence people. David teaches the seven figures and seven friends how to draw a circle, how to draw a stick figure how to draw a throw line, how to draw a star, when to put information into what he calls a Mandela are a four box model how to emphasize stuff. And these skills I think are vital for anyone who's trying to improve their credibility as someone who can actually illustrate your ideas. At the end of the day, unless you have a sight impairment. I think all of us have some level of visual learning, right? Whether it's tactile or auditory, whatever it is, look at me behind me look at you behind you, right. And so when I was at the Disney company 30 years ago, one of the arts that an intern had from graduate school was the ability to take kind of data in written words and bring it to life and a business plan that people like me could actually see and digest really easily. And David has exploded this in his books and his company, the growth consultants. I don't do a very good job at implement During his art, because I'm a fairly frenetic person, and I want to capture everything or nothing, I get overwhelmed easily. But these, these seven figures, and seven free, which are fraction, fraction of David's, you know, content He graciously allowed me to share in the book. And if you're looking to increase your credibility, whether it's at a whiteboard, a chart pad at a conference, at a team meeting, you're gonna look really smart and a team meeting, read David's book, pick up the chapter of mine, and it will transform your sense of confidence and your credibility. And maybe you're maybe you're creating a deck, right, maybe you're creating a deck and you're drawing or sketching it out, or whatever it is. His skills are valuable, like you said, he's a little quirky is that a great personality, lost his wife several years ago, and then found a new love and married her. And I just am a big fan of David Sibbett.

Greg Voisen
Well, there's a term that's used for people that are very, very proficient at this skill. And it's a graphic facilitator. And David is the creme de la creme when it comes to graphic facilitators. I have friends that are graphic facilitators, and they studied under David, myself, I understand the basics of this, I wouldn't consider myself an artist, but I can get up at a whiteboard and do what you just talked about. And I think it's really important. Now your book, you know, with these 30 people, Scott, what I want to do is direct our listeners to Scott, Jeffrey miller.com. Go there. You can order this book, Master manners. Number three, I'm sorry, number two, I'm sorry, I'm ahead of myself, because he already talked about three, there is gonna be a three coming out. And, you know, everybody from Michael Hyatt to David Sibbett. We don't have time to cover all of these people. That's why you need to go get the book. The other thing is, is that, you know, Scott, in each chapter, there's transformational insights. If you were to leave our listeners with one or two transformational insights, which ones would you say would be greatest ones? And what would be how they can integrate that advice into their life today. If there's something that just stood out for you, yeah. yester Minar to you and you said, Okay, there's, you know, there's BJ Fogg and he's got habits and you got to do this. Tell us what it is.

Scott Jeffrey Miller
Well, they're all equal in there. I think profoundness it just depends on where it hits the reader where they are in their life. Right. Yeah, that's how I got the book to be very short chapters. I think. The one that I probably share the most is Bobby Herrera. He's the second mentor. He's number 32. So one 230 Were the mentors and chapter one and 31 through 60 or chapter two,

Greg Voisen
you made a book. You mean in book one,

Scott Jeffrey Miller
book one. Thank you volume one. Thank you. Thank you. So Bobby Herrera is a very famous entrepreneur. He wrote a book called The Gift of struggle. It's a very short hardcover book called The Gift of struggle. And he shares a remarkable story that you cannot read without becoming emotional. It's the second chapter in the book, Volume Two, where I don't have time to share the whole story, but basically, he and his brother were on a high school football team as immigrant Mexicans living in Texas with very little funds. And every Friday night the bait the football team stopped after their game and they all went in and had dinner at a restaurant. Except for Bobby Herrera and his brother who stayed on the bus and ate the brown bag dinner. Their mom had packed for them because there was no money for the Herrera brothers to go into the dinner. And it wasn't the Ruth's Chris it was more like the Sizzler. But everybody knew that Herrera brothers stayed on the bus How humiliating every football game to stay in the bus eat your sandwich your mod pack UI. Your 40 friends are all in having soft serve ice cream and sirloin tips at the Sizzler will one night. One of the teammates came members father, a successful businessman rewards the bus, walks back to the Herrera brothers and says join us for dinner that's on me. No one's going to know. Do me a favor and exchange Pay It Forward sometime later in life. And Bobby says it was the first time in his life he ever felt seen by someone upgrade. I'm getting emotional telling the story crack because that man reboarded That bus and had no idea that profound impact it would have inviting Bobby and his brother just into dinner. I don't know if it was a Sizzler. But the point was it wasn't you know, $100 dinner, right? And Bobby said that no one in his life it ever made him feel seen before. Well, I go on until amazing story how 30 years later, Bobby writes this book called The Gift of struggle. He's a wildly successful entrepreneur. He finds the father 30 years later, a man named Harold Teague, still alive, hadn't talked to him, invites Harold to come to the book launch, where he shares this whole story for the first time ever in public. And everybody is dying in the audience crying, including Harold Tiki had no idea why he was even there later says to Bobby, I remember that day I had no idea the impact on you. It's an amazing story. But the idea of your point take away is Who will you reboard the bus for? Who will you made? Who will you make feel seen today? Will be someone in your team? Will it be your mother ally, your neighbor heard me. All of us have power, positional power, financial power and electrical power, principle centered power, coercive power, utility power, all of us have power. All of us have power to make someone feel seen. So the question is, is who will you park the bus for?

Greg Voisen
I think that's a great way to leave this and you're letting my listeners know and Scott, I just love the energy that you put behind the story. And that that story really helps people to see what is possible, which is taking that extra little step to help somebody. You know, I my authors who make contributions to my nonprofit, I tell them I'm very grassroots. I go out and I hand out $100 gift cards to guys on the streets. And that's what I do. And you know, I have stories that I've compiled from them just by taking my iPhone and recording it and how did you get out on the street. And it's one little helping hand because you never know what's going to happen with somebody like that, that if one person steps up just like this guy did on the back of the bus. It's that guys come on and have dinner. I just gave a card to a guy the other day at a at a bus stop. He knew he knew what he wanted to do is take the train to Oregon. I said great. Take this gift card, buy yourself a ticket, go to Oregon. That's where you get your that's what you got to do to get out of town. But my point is, is that your show my show this book, both books provide great stories for the listeners to actually look at and question things in their lives about what they can change, while sad, but they can make better. And I appreciate you every time I'm on I learn more and more. Every time we're on we share great people that we can collaborate with. So thank you so much. I know you've got to be line out of here and get on another call. But you are a blessing known estate to you man. I'll say to you, sir. Thanks so much for being on inside personal growth.

Scott Jeffrey Miller
My honor, Greg, thanks for the spotlight.

powered by

Joining me for this podcast is a teacher, speaker and one of the authors of Live Life in Crescendo: Your Most Important Work Is Always Ahead of You (The Covey Habits Series) – Cynthia Covey Haller.

Cynthia has held multiple leadership positions in women’s organizations, served as a PTSA president, an organizer for refugee aid and food pantry volunteer, and she is currently working with her husband as a service volunteer helping with employment needs. She has also contributed to the writing of several books and articles, notably The 3rd Alternative by Stephen R. Covey, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective Teens and The 6 Most Important Decisions You’ll Ever Make, both by Sean Covey.

Among these, the most special is the one she co-authored with her late father Stephen Covey, Live Life in Crescendo. This book happens to be the final book from the late legendary leadership expert which offers inspiration and optimism to live your best life.

If you’re interested and want to know more about Cynthia, you may click here to visit her profile.

I hope you enjoy my engaging interview with Cynthia Covey Haller. Thanks and happy listening!

THE BOOK

Live Life in Crescendo is Covey’s answer to these questions, outlining his vision for every age and stage of life. Taken from his personal mission statement, Covey urges all to “live life in crescendo,” continually growing in learning, influence, and contribution. In the same way that music builds on the previous notes, life too, builds on the past and unfolds in the future. This crescendo mentality urges you to use whatever you have—your time, talents, resources, gifts, passion, money, and influence—to enrich the lives of people around you, including your family, neighborhood, community, and the world.

THE AUTHOR

Cynthia Covey Haller is an author, teacher, speaker, and active participant in her community. She has contributed to the writing of several books and articles, notably, The 3rd Alternative by Stephen R. Covey, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective Teens, and The 6 Most Important Decisions You’ll Ever Make, both by Sean Covey.

 

You may also refer to the transcripts below for the full transciption (not edited) of the interview.

Greg Voisen
Welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. This is Greg Voisen and the host of Inside Personal Growth. And we have a special guest joining us. And here's the book. And it's Cynthia Covey Haller h-a-l-l-e-r, she is the daughter of Steven Covey. And there is a new book that we're going to be speaking about, called Live Life in Crescendo: Your Most Important Work is Always Ahead of you. Good day to you, Cynthia, how are you doing? They're Utah. Really great. Nice to see you. I look forward to being on your show. Well, I'm looking forward to having you and talking about this book, because this is a book that everybody should read. This is a book that will inspire and get people to live their life and crescendo, which we're going to be talking about it but we're also going to be talking about what it's like to live life that way. And really like your dad did, you know, it was it was really just part of his DNA. And I think most of the people that knew him and listened to him speak or saw him in person, or whatever, they really recognize that that's the way he lived his life all the way to the end. And so you guys are encouraging both of you, you are writing this together, and is passing occurred kind of in the middle of this and you finish this book up, right? Yes, that's how it happened. We I actually came to him. I don't know several years ago and said, foolishly asked, hey, Dad, you're gonna write anything as good as seven habits. Anything is impactful? Or, you know, have you got anything else coming out? And not meaning to that? This question insulted him. He said, my one and done seven habits all that I have. I've got lots of ideas in my head. In fact, for you saying that you can help me.

Cynthia Covey Haller
It is his personal mission statement the last 10 years of his life live life in crescendo. He said, my most important work still ahead, you know, I want you to help get this book out by interviewing me and writing the stories and creating it. And then we still have important hopefully, I still have a lot more to share with readers and audiences will you do and I'm going to say a little bit about your dad, most of my listeners know your father.

Greg Voisen
But Stephen R, Covey spent his career inspiring millions to make their lives more effective, compassionate and meaningful. Near the end of his life, he felt that there was a final component to his work, how to live your best life, no matter your age. And I think that really kind of sums this buck up. So live life and crescendo is about that. Cynthia, though, on the other hand, is an author, a teacher and a speaker. And she's contributed to several books, including The Seven Habits of Highly Effective teens, the six most important decision job remake, and the third alternative, so it's not like she is a mystery writer. she's there. She's been involved in many of these books. I just wanted my listeners to know that. And, you know, this book in particular, has, it's so rich with stories, all the stories that you guys have included, are phenomenal. And in the preface of the book, you state that your dad taught you the best way to predict your future was to create it. How has your father's Carpe Diem philosophy about life influenced your decision about how you Cynthia live your life?

Cynthia Covey Haller
Well, Greg, I had to live a crescendo just to finish the book. It's taken me 10 years his passing was 10 years ago. And my we, he was excited about it. He felt like that he really wanted to get out the crescendo mentality, which I can speak about later. But he also always taught us that if you want your to create your you know, if you want to predict your future and have a great future, you have to create it yourself. You have to take responsibility, and ownership of that. And you can see that thread throughout all of his other books. And this last one is no exception, that he's teaching that you have a choice to live the crescendo mentality delivering crescendo or the opposite is to live in diminuendo, and this is a musical symbol that he used. crescendo is you know, begins with one point and then stretches out in opposite ways and grows larger. In music. A crescendo grows in volume lower and in strength. The same way that your life should keep being in crescendo keep learning and grow. owing and contributing throughout your life every agent stage where the opposite living in in diminuendo the sign of a diminuendo. It starts out wide and then it comes to a point and it slows down and it lessens and it eventually ends, it stops. And so this book talks a lot about your choices to decide to live in crescendo or diminuendo. And he teaches that it is a conscious choice that you can, you can predict your future by creating it through your choices and taking responsibility for your life. Well, I

Greg Voisen
think the thing about crescendo when you use this as an example versus diminuendo, when you watch any good orchestra leader, take a group of 60 or 70 people in an orchestra, up to a crescendo of the music, you see that the height thinning of a piece, whatever the piece may be that they're playing. And in this case, it's each one of our individuals crescendos, which I think is so important. And you know, many people probably know some of your family story, but you were the oldest of nine children. And I'm not certain everybody knows that. And the family was a top priority for your father. And he really did try to treat all of you equally. And I think this is a great example. And you tell this great story about attending a conference, or he was attending a conference in San Diego and he said, hey, Cynthia, why don't you come along with me? I remember reading that. And so we could ride the cable cars and do the kinds of things that you wanted to do. And your father as actions. Really, when he was at this conference, there's a story I'm gonna let you tell, really exemplified the importance of treating everybody equally and most importantly, you because, you know, he was like a main speaker at this conference in everybody wanted to talk to him, tell the story and tell what happened. And how did it make you feel?

Cynthia Covey Haller
Well, as you said, Greg, I am the oldest of nine, I'm now affectionately known as the mother hand of the group. My parents are both passed. And so I, you know, taking that responsibility of making sure everyone's doing okay, in my family, we have a real close together. And we did have a great childhood. My parents weren't perfect, but more than anything, they tried to live, what they taught, and believed. And so this particular story actually really stands out in my childhood. In many ways. My father decided he was going to this conference, it's actually in San Francisco. And he was, so he invited me as a 12 year old to go with him. And so you can imagine the excitement that I had, and part of the fun was planning it a whole month or two ahead, we talked about all the things we're going to do, right, the famous cable cars that sounded so magical to a 12 year old, we're going to go shop at some of the really fancy stores in San Francisco. For some school clothes, we're going over to Chinatown, we both love Chinese food. So we're gonna go get some authentic Chinese food. And we take a taxi back to the hotel and have a quick swim before the pool closed, and then order a hot fudge sundae while we watch the Late Show. And so we had it all planned, we've gone over it and rehearsed it in our minds. And I was so excited. And the plan was for me to meet after his presentation. So I was at the back of the room, waiting the last 1520 minutes when he was speaking. And as he as he finished, he started made his way back toward me. And on the way he was greeted by one of his best friends in college that he had always talked about, and someone that he hadn't seen for a long time. They were excited to see each other and embraced. And I heard him say I heard the friend say, hey, my wife and I would love to get with you tonight. We could go out to dinner, eat on the wharf and have a great time. And he, he said, explained that I was there with him. And he said, oh, of course your daughter's welcome to join us. And I thought, oh no, I felt betrayed. I thought my Chinese food I didn't, I hated seeing food. We had plenty Chinese food. I didn't want to spend the time with a couple of old people, his friends. So I could see my cable car going down the hill without me and I was I felt bad. And but I heard my dad say, as nicely as possible. That's so nice of you, Bill to invite us to do that. But I'd love to do that. But not tonight. I've got a special day all planned with my daughter, and we wouldn't miss it for anything. And so we were out the door before his friend knew I happened and on our way and I said well gosh, daddy is sure you know you wouldn't be I mean, he's one of your best friends when you want to spend time with him. And he said Horse not you'd rather have Chinese food anyway, would you? Let's go get that cable car, you know. So anyway, it just it just communicates to me my worth and potential to him, as one of nine children taught me first things first taught me that relationships are more important. Your most important relationships are valuable and to him and it created a bond of trust and, and love that I think was the foundation for our relationship. It meant so much to me. And it does now as I look back, this seemingly one incident that taught me so much about relationships and choices and priorities?

Greg Voisen
Well, I think it teaches a lot about leadership and character. I mean, as an individual, you know, when you're a father or a mother of a family, you're a leader as well, right. And when you exemplify your character, which is around trust, and I think the biggest thing that could have happened there is he easily could have broken your trust. And you know, that one, I mean, your brother wrote a book on trust, which I actually interviewed Greg link for, believe it or not, and, you know, trust is such an important thing. And if you would, you know, talk about how living life in crescendo to get to these things to actually go out and do what I would say, exemplary things, for whoever this is listening to kind of stretch themselves to push to that crescendo to do things in their life that they may never think about doing. And the important element there is to, to really have that inspiration to do it. And your dad was so inspiring, you know, and I'm so glad that he did not break your trust. Because that would not have gone over well with you. But also, it just shows you inside the love and compassion they had, which is another thing. You know, when you look at the things like love and compassion and trust and these kinds of things, it's so important. Can you speak with the listeners about what your father called the current shindow mentality? You both worked before his passing on this book. And you made a conscious decision to keep the book in his voice. And you really can tell that when you read this book about the stories and everything, you state that this book represents what your family considers his final contribution. And last lecture, what do you believe he wanted people to know what are these crescendo mentalities?

Cynthia Covey Haller
This was his, we realize now after his pass, he because he always had the subtitle of the book is your most important work is always ahead of you. He believed that he had in his mind and got up every day with the idea that I have more to create, and more to learn and more to share. And that's something that each of us can apply in our own lives. But the crescendo mentality has got to be a conscious choice that we make through life's ups and downs and setbacks and different ages and stages of life. And just to illustrate this, one of my favorite books, one of my favorite examples in this in this book really is about a man named Ray Hinton, and Ray Hinton. Ray Hinton was just a normal guy going about his life at work, when, at the same time, two people were murdered 15 miles away from him. Somehow, he got convicted of this horrible murder and crime he basically got framed, because they couldn't find who did it. And he was a convenient person to frame and he trusted in a legal system. It failed them and the next thing he knew he was this is an Alabama and he found himself on death row. So he is has a choice right now he's, he's miserable. He can't believe that he has been convicted of wrongly convicted of two murders, and he is despairing and despondent. He comes into the jail cell, he throws his Bible under his bed, and decides I'm done. He shuts down. He doesn't speak to his fellow cellmates next to him to the guards to anyone besides family and friends, during their visits for three long, miserable years. He's basically living in diminuendo, not communicating shut down full of despair. His life is going nowhere and he's on death row. He doesn't know what to do. And so he at two in the morning, one night, here's a fellow cellmate next to him who is sobbing and crying out for somebody to help him. He's in such pain and needs and just begging someone to talk to him. And something awakens and RE is His goodness, His character that he's always had. This compassion awakens in him. And all of a sudden he realizes, I can't choose being here on death row, hate and despair or choice, but so is love and compassion. And he chooses to break his three years of silence and speaks to this man and ends up talking to him the entire night. He just found out that the prisoner just found out that his mother had just passed away. And he was so discouraged and despondent about that, that Ray listened to him tell stories about his mother, and it got him laughing and talking through the night about what a wonderful person she was. He decided from that day, that, as I said, I can't choose if I'm on death row, but I have other choices. And I'm going to exercise those. And so he began, he became a light and a beacon for the next 28 years, to all the people around him, even the guards and people his fellow cellmates, and those who was in contact with, he was able to start a book club with his fellow prisoners, to help transport them out of their dreary circumstances and to talk about ideas. And he even though it was so close to where they executed people, he exercised all those choices that he had to be a kind decent person and to give hope and light to those around him. He finally was able to get the

Cynthia Covey Haller
legal help of Bryan Stevenson, who works for Equal Justice Initiative, he started this, you may have heard of justice, mercy for movies, and his powerful work and helping people that are unjustly imprisoned. And so anyway, after it literally took almost 30 years, and Bryan Stevenson finally got him released by going before the Supreme Court of the United States, where they found Yes, he was unjustly imprisoned, and he was released. And so he comes out of jail after almost 30 years, and says to his family and friends, the sun does shine. And this was the title of a book that he wrote four years later became a New York best time selling book. And he basically tells about his journey, is describing living in Diminuendo and then choosing delivering crescendo, exercising the few options and the choices that he had to enlighten and help other people. And now he works with Brian trying to as an advocate, and as a speaker, as an author, his circle of influence, which was very small, has now spread all over the world, all through the United States. And he helps those people who have obviously been imprisoned. And so this is just an example of the crescendo mentality, the power that it has in your life, if applied, if you're able to act on those to realize I do have some choices, I may not be able to choose all my circumstances, but I can definitely choose how to respond to what's happened to me.

Greg Voisen
Well, it's, that's a great story and a great example of somebody who was wrongly convicted, but then turned their life around and used it for good. And I think what happens is one of the main things that comes out of that for me, and hopefully for the listeners is if you can expand your reach to help other people more than just helping yourself because what he did that one night, when the sale cellmate was sobbing, was he woke up he awakened to reach out and help a fellow one person in this case, now he's helping hundreds of people kind of get justice for themselves in this book has spread like wildfire, I'm sure. And I think it's important to note that when you have something outside yourself, that you're working toward, whether it's like my cars, the homeless are your cause, or anybody's cause that keeps you inspired to do crescendo work. Life in crescendo is divided into four stages, and you'd speak to listeners about the stages and the key principles that guide them through each of the stages if you would, because it the book is very carefully crafted. I really enjoyed that. And we know what the crescendo mentality is because you just explained it with that story. You know, that's probably the best way you could have done it. But talk about these four stages if you would.

Cynthia Covey Haller
Yeah, there's well it really is something that you can apply through all through your entire life. It originally began with my I think with my dad, thinking people kept asking him So Steven, you're 20 you're 65 you're about ready to hang it up for you gonna still keep speaking and writing. Are you going to take time to relax? What's your plan? And he thought to himself, you know what, I'm, I'm not finished. I still have passion for my work. I still feel like there's a need he'd feel a desire to get some of these ideas out. And so there's different ages and stages. And the first one is, is the midlife stage. And you mentioned we talked a little bit about midlife how sometimes people wonder during this stage, okay, I'm 45, I'm 50 years old, I'm not where I thought I would be. At this stage, I thought I would be further down the road, I thought I'd be more successful. Right. And the example I gave one of them in there is George Bailey from It's a Wonderful Life. Yeah. You know, I

Greg Voisen
have a question about that. In our thing. Yeah, that's

Cynthia Covey Haller
right. Do you want me to go into

Greg Voisen
that we know you also tell a story about a friend of yours whose father divorced her mother and married the secretary. And you know, the grass is always greener kind of thing. And I could, I could tell through the words that that really impacted you. That might be a great story. And then we'll go on to the Bailey's story, because everybody knows about George Bailey and his attempt to commit suicide and the angels and so on. But yeah, tell that one because I think it was really good.

Cynthia Covey Haller
Well, this is just a story of a friend that who tells he tells looking back later about how his father pretty much plummeted them into living in diminuendo until they were able to get control of it. But he left his wife and his marriage and his family. For some, you know, the old young secretary. And we've moved away, started a new life and divorced and his family is devastated left to pick up the pieces. And so I was talking to him, he just said how much it impacted him and his mother and his siblings. And yet, while I'm speaking to him, he's he, he totally took control of his life, he didn't choose to Father is following his father's footsteps he has created he now has four or five children as create a totally different family culture for them becoming a transition person, in that he didn't let that totally destroy him, although it was so hard for him while he was growing up. But when he had the opportunity to be faithful to his wife, and to have this family and to create this, he chose, he chose to do that instead of repeating the past, which is a lot of times what people will do. So in the middle life stage, we talk about two different things. One, that you may be more successful than you think you are. Success, as it's defined out in society is different than what true success is. And the George Bailey example is, is evidence of that Georgia actually was very successful, not as the world is, as defines it. But it was successful in that what you're doing, Greg, he cared about others, he, he expanded his circle of influence and blessed other people in that small town, so that they could have a decent house that was a friend to all and help contribute in that way. And so that's the first perspective that, you know, true success actually is being true to your most important roles. That's what my father was to me when that San Francisco story, who was true in his most important roles, which was that time of being a father, other people are true, important roles to them. I use another example in the book about a man who's a who's a doctor who was single and went over to third world country in Africa and was able to be the doctor for 1000s of people the closest one connection to any medical health anywhere. And he had no you know, he that was his family. That was his most important role. And then the second, the second point of perspective of midlife, is that if there are things in your life that need changing, if you do have a dead end job, if you're in a don't have a relationship with your teenage child, if you're feeling like you are failing, take responsibility and act, you have the power to change to change that by doing what you can to increase your circle of influence, and make good choices so that pretty soon your life is expanding instead of diminishing. So that's just kind of one example of live of a midlife

Greg Voisen
story. So what's the next stage their

Cynthia Covey Haller
next stage? Yeah, is pinnacle of success. And everyone may not rich that but that is that is somebody who, who is very successful in their life, such as, think of Jimmy Carter, he was president the United States, you think Well, that's the highest, you know, that's a high position. That's a great career to have, that you're the president but he didn't get reelected. He didn't have that second term. And so what does he do now? Does he just go back to Georgia and build his library like they all do? And, and just kind of relax and give speaking tours, knowing Jimmy Carter and what he's done ever since he is he was not known as our most prolific president, but he is our best post President United States has ever had. You came back within a year of losing the presidency for the second time, he started the Carter Center for peace. He's involved with Habitat for Humanity. He and Rosalyn are the face of Habitat for Humanity across the whole world. So his literally quite literally his most important work was still ahead of him, which was this humanitarian work.

Greg Voisen
I agree. I agree with you. Yeah. And so what's the next stage after that?

Cynthia Covey Haller
Okay, so just to summarize that last one, if you are successful, what are you going to do now? What do you choose to do? You're going to just rest on your laurels and do nothing else or what else is ahead of you? Then the next stage is live set changing setbacks. That would be something like a Nelson Mandela, that, you know, he's imprisoned for 28 years and comes out at 71. Can you imagine being released at 71 years old and thinking, you know, you think to yourself, I guess his life is over liquid. You know, he's 71 years old, and he's out. He's finally out of prison. And yet, his life was also just expanding his most important work was definitely ahead of him. Four years later, he's the President of South Africa, with de Klerk, who was the president before him as his vice president. He is dismantling apartheid. He's making enormous contributions all across the world that have affected everyone, especially South Africa. And so life changing setbacks, think of things that somebody gets cancer, someone gets divorced, someone's parent or child dies. Someone is kidnapped like Elizabeth smart. What do you what are your choices? What are you going to do? Are you going to choose to live in crescendo or to live in diminuendo. And I've got lots of stories about people that choose, despite their circumstances and their setbacks to expand and live in crescendo. And then the last that's

Greg Voisen
what you find a lot of time in adversity, because that's Was that was that what this is about? You know, something, somebody has something adverse happened to them. And if their consciousness their spiritual awakening is big enough, they try and do something good with that negativity, in other words, turn that negativity into something positive, I help the world with it. And that is living life in crescendo. Most definitely

Cynthia Covey Haller
that Michael J. Fox did just that. You know, he diagnosed with Parkinson's when he's a young actor, and he's at the height of his career. And yet, he's told he has Parkinson's disease, and it will eventually, you know, become more and more a factor in his life. He says at first he, he shut down, he drank, he didn't accept it. He was in denial. And he realized that didn't help him. And so he was starting to live in diminuendo. And then he decided, he said, I decide I found out that I have many choices. The only choice I didn't have is whether or not I had this disease. Everything else was up to me. And if I chose to educate myself about it, in eating and exercise and what I could do, I felt better and had more control of it. So little by little he exercises these choices. And you can see his impact throughout the world for Parkinson's. He one time testified before Congress is subcommittee hearing, without his medication, to show them what the effects were physically on his body and his language and his and everything in his speech. Because not being able to take that medication, trying to convince them to be able to pay for medication for people that couldn't afford it. And he was brave enough to do that. And then, you know, just through the years, his most people would say, his most important role was really not as an actor, but as this advocate for Parkinson's.

Greg Voisen
Yes, it's so true. I mean, I remember seeing him as you were saying that I remember seeing that testimony. So and he was shaking and having a tough time speaking and it was really quite something. Now, what's that fourth stage?

Cynthia Covey Haller
fourth stage is what I was talking about with my father. The fourth stage is the second half of life. You're getting older, maybe you are approaching retirement or not working anymore. He talks about a false dichotomy that you either choose between keep working or retire. He said the third alternative is to keep contributing. So you may still you still may work in a job and a career and you may have passion for it and still have a lot to produce. And you should keep doing that. But if you do choose to retire and step away from your career, what are you going to contribute? Now, instead of thinking I talk about people who are advised to go to Florida and relax and not do anything and talking about your stress versus de stress, but your stress you need in your body, you need to have some, some feelings of I need to get up in the morning I need to produce, I need to have some meaning in my life to keep you vital. And so this last stage talks about, you may retire from a job or career, but never retire from making meaningful contributions to others around you, beginning with your own family, and then spreading into your neighborhood and your community. Kind of what you're doing. Greg, I really admire your work. That's, you know, my father talks about life is a mission, not a career. And you're an example of that. Well, thank you. You're using this podcast, your job and having some speakers to create interest for listeners, but you are contributing to our problem with homeless homelessness.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, and it's such a big factor. And you know, those were, all those stages are so important. But you know, we talked about this, you talked about a little bit earlier, that chapter life is a mission, not a career, just like what you just said, and you referenced that movie. It's a Wonderful Life with George and coming to a point of desperation that he wanted to commit suicide and jump off the bridge. You if you would speak with the listeners, we spoke a little bit about this midlife crisis. And this is, you know, one of those things that despair that the gentleman who was wrongly convicted for three years in the prison. Now you're, you know, we're correlating that kind of like, George, he was in despair, because all that money had gone away, right. And he thought he'd lost all the towns. What do you want to call it trust again? What can you do to shift the mindset and the attitudes to live a life and crescendo? I think that's the most important point of that question. Whether we use George or we used the guy in prison, or we use to anybody, it's really about what is it that I can these listeners out there that are listening today can do to shift this mindset and our attitudes and our beliefs about the position we're in so that we can get out of the Diminuendo and get into crescendo?

Cynthia Covey Haller
Right? That's a great question. I think a lot of it has to do with service and contribution Gregg. Pablo Picasso, once said, the meaning of life is to find your gift, the purpose of life is to give it away. I talk we talk in this book a lot about everybody finding their individual mission, that life is a mission, not a career. And my father like to quote Viktor Frankl who said that you don't invent your missions, you detect them. You detect them through analyzing thinking deeply about your own unique skills and talents. What are you good at? What can you share with others? Where do you see a need around you? Where you see, maybe you've got a daughter who's just going through an awful divorce, it's really hard and you see grandkids that are, are having a difficult time? What can you do to expand not only your, your circle of influence, but also hers when reaching out through service. And so service and contribution are huge throughout this book, because it causes people as they start to live outside themselves, kind of what you're doing with your with your mission, that it blesses other people and they find it also blesses themself. As they take responsibility for themselves. It also blesses others. I'm thinking of a man that I wrote about in the book, who is a junior high teacher, everyone knows what it's like to teach junior high or what Junior High ages kind of like, but this man was a brainless starch was so beloved, because he individually cared about each person that he met, he knew their name, he had a great relationship with them. And he taught science. And he knew that if he could just create a spark and the kids to look past the rules and the tough stuff in science, that they would love it that they would be excited about it. And so he took that on by doing fun things like they have experiments where they could blow things up in their in the lab that he had the end of the year that they would shoot off these bottle rockets and give prizes to those that went the furthest. So we had all these fun things to engage the kids in in his in his career trying to get them excited about Science? Well, he's in a middle life stage. And when struggling, like you're saying about how do I choose to keep living this, he doesn't feel like I don't know if they really I'm making I'm making a difference in these kids life, I don't know if I'm making an impact or not. Well, unbeknownst to him, there's a committee that has nominated him for an Educator Award, which he eventually wins. And he does this because these, these people on the committee found students that had gone on, and because of Brian was starch and his influence in their life and caring about them and opening up a science to them and excited way that because of that, they went into careers. And they find some of these people that have become engineers, and doctors and scientific backgrounds who come back to tell him, you were the spark, you were the reason that I went into this. And he had kind of like, lost a little sight of it, and was even thinking of going into something else, when all of a sudden he won this award, and it kind of renewed in him. This is my meaning and my purpose. Life is a mission. And besides teaching science, and building these young kids, and inspiring them with that, and then he later found out that many of them chose similar careers, because of what he had done. And so his life expands as well, as well, there's,

Greg Voisen
well, I think it's just like writing this book. Right? You know, you said 10 years. Yeah. Additional you spent on this, you know, this is a message that in this is a contribution. Know, people who write books are contributing based on their stories based on their experiences based on their research about what their perception of the world is. And I think, when we take time, and we're continual learners, we're always curious about, what are these perspectives? What are these things that could help change something? What could I invent? What might I be able to do that could help other people. And you know, in your chapter, people are more important than things you tell a really good story about this contractor chip that worked on the building where your parents cabin was in Montana. And I loved this story, because my brother had a house in Whitefish, Montana, that we used to go to all the time. And there was always something going wrong with it, because of the weather conditions and things. You know, it just gets extremely cold, the pipes, the issues, whatever. Can you tell the story and the lesson, that contribution brings light to the eye and meaning to the soul? Because this, this gentleman in particular, really exemplified how your father treated people. Right. And I think it was so important. I think if there's any one thing in the book, make sure you get this book, read this story, because it's just such a great story. Well, yeah, I

Cynthia Covey Haller
think so too. And we didn't know about this until both my mother and father had passed away involve both of them. And so chip was a builder up in Montana. And we needed to speak to my parents about some issues with the cabin and really needed them important planning meeting, it was the middle of winter. And they live in, in Provo, Utah, which is about 600 miles away from where they were going. So they drove on kind of some icy roads and up there to meet with him. And the whole purpose was to, to figure out to some different some major questions he had about their cabin. And so in the meantime, this chap had just been going through a really awful divorce and was devastated and his life was upside down. And they had heard that, but they hadn't spoken with him. So when they got to the restaurant, they were supposed to just meet for a couple hours. And then they'd go back to their hotel. My father had to travel out first thing in the morning to get home to fly out that day. So they just had a couple precious hours. And so they met over dinner to discuss the cabin. And as they started, my mom said to chip, you know, we understand you're going through a really hard time right now and just wanted to see how you're doing. And he dismissed it and said, Oh, I'm fine. I, you know, it's okay. I was just a divorce. And I, let's just talk about your cabin. Well, two other times, my parents interrupted him and said, ship, what you're going through right now and the hard time that you're facing, he said is more important to us than building our cabin right now. Let's just talk about you and how we can help you. And Chip said he told us in an email after they passed away. Needless to say, I broke down and cried and told them what I was going through. And it was the darkest time of my life. And they cared about me instead of just thinking of their cabin, that we discussed it for the entire couple hours that we had. He said I was so embarrassed that they'd come this far in the in the cold and the end and then that icy roads and just talked about that. But they communicated to me that my worth and potential was much more important to them than building their cabinet at that point. And that was such a great lesson that we read that in the funeral. That story and then that he also went after my father had passed away. This happened after my mother passed away, he sent this. And after my father passed away, we went up to the cabin, and it was full of bats. As you say you that you have to deal with all sorts of things in a cabin, up in Montana, well, there it would have been taken over by bats. And we were devastated. Our father just died a year a week earlier. And there we were, and we didn't know he always took care of these things. And so we call chip, he came over immediately, he cleaned up, he brought a crew, he didn't take any compensation. For his work. He said, it’s my chance to pay back what your parents did for me the darkest time of my life.

Greg Voisen
It's just the story, again, is a good story. But more importantly, about people are more important than things. Yeah. Where are your priorities? And I think that's a part of this is where people's priorities Where are you going to actually take your actions and your steps? And it doesn't matter what age you are, whether you're 40? Or you're 80? Well, how are you going to live life in crescendo? And you know, you have a great story about your father in this book. I didn't know this. And I'm sure there's a lot that's going to be revealed to people that didn't know in this book. One was at that was so sweet. But how he lacked these mechanical abilities, and he used to call John newness, newness? Who was your father relied on for the years of these mechanical things around the house? And I didn't realize your father was so unlucky. Can you tell the story and more importantly, how John told you about your father after his death? What it was so important about the worth and potential that key felt as somebody who changed the light bulb?

Cynthia Covey Haller
Yeah, Greg King, really, I guess we all have our talents, right? And our strengths and weaknesses. And his was not being mechanical, as they as you as you read. He once hired when he was first married, someone to see what was wrong with the light. And the electrician said, Sir, you just need to put in a light bulb. And he said, how much would you charge to install one? We always got

Greg Voisen
I'm still laughing.

Cynthia Covey Haller
We got a good laugh over that when he points out. You got I was just married. I never did things like this before. But he was not he was very inept when it came to mechanical things. And so this John Nunez was someone in town that he hired to help maintain his boat and Jet ski. And just anything that was mechanical at all, he relied on him so much, and John reciprocated, because he showed such belief in him and put so much trust in Him, He would come out at night and fix the boat and fix it, you know, anything mechanical, he would go the second mile for him because of that. Well, when he passed away, he continued because of his loyalty. And that he received from my father to help us even though he had retired during it took for other people, but he still kept on with us. And I asked him why one day you're so you're so loyal, why? Why do you keep doing this to help us? And he said, he said, you know what your father was the only one I ever knew who really truly appreciated what I did for a living. He valued me and made me feel so important, because I was a mechanical help to him. And that meant the world to me. My father defined leadership as communicating worth and potential so clearly, that you are inspired to see it in yourself. And I think that in these two examples of chip and John, that, that he did communicate their worth and potential to them through actions through caring about them and, and valuing them so that they, they felt that genuinely, and it affected them impacted them enough that they did extra things for us, which we really appreciated.

Greg Voisen
Well, the book is filled with great stories like that. It really is. And you tell another story. And I think the reason that these stories mount up in this podcast is because it just shows you how Steven Covey lived his life. And I think that it needs to be told because he was constantly living his life in crescendo. And I think most importantly, you can tell by the stories that Cynthia's telling how what people thought of him as a person, as a soul as somebody walking on this planet. You tell a great story about someone who chooses to live their life and can share No, and that is Dr. Shandra. You tell how he lost his way for three years after the death of his wife and children in flight 182. and Ireland. And, you know, that was a, that was a tragedy beyond belief. I remember reading this in the book about, you know, here this guy is his kids are gone, his wife is gone. It's just him. Can you tell the story about Dr. Chandra, and on top of this, this native India, Indian at the age of 63. Right, so we're saying, here’s somebody that went through this tragedy when you talk about tragedies in these stages, but really did something good with it.

Cynthia Covey Haller
Yes. And the reason we put these inspiring stories, some are famous people well known, some are non-famous, is the hope that the listener and reader couldn't see themself doing something similar. inspire them to think you know what, I'm going through this hard thing, maybe I can do this. And inductors Shandra is example. He puts his wife and children on a plane. And I don't know if he's going to join them later. But they were going from India. I mean, from Canada, where they live to London. And this is when it was it was the largest murder in Canadian history. The bomb blew up, it blew up the plane, and over 300 people died, including his entire family is wiped out. So here he is a successful person that sorry, he's successful at 6364 years old. In his career, he's reached the pinnacle of success, he does well, but yet he has no purpose left in his life, his entire family is wiped out. He said for three years, he kind of wandered around blindly, and was in diminuendo did nothing couldn't function kept thinking maybe somebody maybe they got out earlier and they were rescued, maybe I'll still find them. He didn't know what to do for three years. And then he decided, he decided I wanted to do something useful with my life. He said I wanted a purpose. And it said Life has no purpose if you don't have meaning, and you don't have something that you can bring about some good. And so he did quit. Greg, like you said, his job up in Canada, and he moved to India. And he decided he was going to do something in their memory, the memory of his mother and his two children to help his native country of India, and he found two glaring problems is one that terrible eyesight, because so many millions of people worked in the fields, in the rice paddies that they had, they were blind, they either had blindness, or they were suffering from terrible eyesight. And then the second thing was schooling is that they had, they didn't, they had very low education, lack of education. And so he went to work at these two things. And he created, He created hospitals that would eye hospitals that would treat people free of charge, or what little they could afford. He they've treated over three and a half million people since then have gone to these eye hospitals. And they've become very well known in India. And they're the buses that take these students, these people to the eye hospitals during the day bring them to school, he established schools in the names of their children. And these kids, who a lot of times would not get an education would only be working following in the footsteps of their fathers in these fields, where they go blind from the from the rice from the rice work, he established the schools so that they could go free of charge to all the schools. One boy said if who gained the scholarship for the prestigious engineering school said if it hadn't been for Dr. Chandra, I wouldn't be following the footsteps of my father in poverty. And this cycle would continue. So he took a really hard thing that was personally hard for him and turned his greatest challenge and setback in life. And he, he turned it into something that blesses other people. And it's true that Dr. Chand, his most important work was still ahead, which is creating these great opportunities for native Indians in his native country that he loved so much in the memory of his family that he lost. What an inspiring story that was to me,

Greg Voisen
ya know, I'm very familiar with the story. And I think the issue that they have is that people they're getting a lot of cataracts and they weren't doing cataract surgeries. So they've really accelerated the pace of those surgeries. And it was interesting that you notified or told me that that was from working in these rice fields. Now to wrap this up, because life and crescendo has lots and lots of great stories in it. It's an opportunity for everybody who's listening out there today to be inspired to live life in crescendo, I think if there's one thing that Cynthia and I would like to do is inspire you who are listening to look at your life a little bit deeper, and determine what is it that you potentially could do or act upon, that would have you living in crescendo and not diminuendo. And so with that, you state in the book, that there's this damaging misconception, our society that as you grow older, there are only two choices work or retire. And obviously, your father didn't choose any of those. He chose to live in crescendo, which was work, but work applied specifically toward helping others. But there all sorts of choices. And the third one is contribution, as you said, and can you leave our listeners with three things that they may want to consider about contributing and living their life and crescendo? Through contribution?

Cynthia Covey Haller
Well, yes, we have the whole point of this book was, like I said, to inspire you to think what resources I have, what knowledge what talents, you don't have to have a lot of money to do good. You have to you've got great connections that you've made your whole life, you've got a lot of skills, if you look around you and see a need. And so the first the first thing would be to challenge you whatever age or stage you're at, in your life, to consciously choose to live a crescendo, rather than in diminuendo. Identify, what am I doing right now? Or am I stagnant? Am I Am I at a stage where I feel like I'm not growing and learning? Do I need to keep contributing? What do I need to do and choose? Just like Radiohead, and some of those other people that had a choice had a choice to consciously choose a crescendo mentality. And second is we'd like to instill the hope in listeners that no matter what you have been through, your most important work is still ahead. You don't know. How do you know when you've accomplished your greatest, your greatest work. I talked about Garth Brooks, in this book, also, who was so successful at the height of his career, he stepped away from it for 12 years, because he felt like he was losing his children, his girls, he didn't know them, someone else was raising them. his important work that was important work to him, they stepped away from his career to raise them for 12 years and did that and then resumed his career and was able to pick it up immediately. So you can choose, you can't always choose your circumstances, what's happening to you, but you can choose to have the hope that I still have important things to contribute, I may have this disease that I was just told I have, I may have gone through a huge setback, but what my most important work could still be to come, my contributions are still to come. And then the last part is just to teach the idea that life is about contribution, not accumulation. We haven't talked about this so much. But life is about contributing not just, you know, not just adding to the money into the wealth and the prestige we have but contributing to the lives of others. So what can you do? In your circle of influence? Can you cross the street and help a neighbor that is lonely that's older that never gets out? Can you take them to the store? Can you help do their yard? Can you be a friend to them? Do you see a need in your community where there's maybe there's certain schools that don't have a lot of readers, people that help read in first and second grade that's so valuable? Can you donate an hour or two there? How can you contribute with just what you have your own resources and your own skills to increase a great life for somebody else and live in crescendo as well as helping others to do the same. So these are kind of our challenges Greg in and something that my father, this was his last big idea, important message that he wanted to get out that life is about contribution. And the more that you do that in every stage of life, despite what you're going through the greater meaning and purpose you will find in your own life.

Greg Voisen
Well, it is such important work, you know, and it is work. And I think the most important thing is that if you have an attitude of gratitude and compassion and love, and humility, you can take these characteristics, so to say and do almost anything. And I think the other thing people need to understand and there's been lots of research done on this, that the greater the amounts of love and compassion that you can get Put out into the world, the longer your lifespan. And there is a correlation between you giving or contributing, however you want to look at this. And what we're saying here is not so much, just giving up your money is giving up your time and giving of yourself. It's, it's easy to write a check. It's challenging to actually go out and do the work. And it all starts with one step. And the first step is your choice to go do it, and then get the feeling of what that feels like to have some, you know, in my case, I go out and I give away gift cards to the homeless. The feeling is wonderful that you're helping someone, go get a meal, or get themselves cleaned up or get a hotel room for the night or whatever it might be. It doesn't really matter. The fact is, is that you've made the opportunity to contribute. So, Cynthia, kudos to you, kudos to your dad and your family. Again, this is the book. I hope everybody can see it. Live life in crescendo. Your most important work is always ahead of you. Thank you for being on inside personal growth and spending time with my listeners. Thank you for what you're doing. This is your gift because you're going to uplift so many people to do good work in the world. I really appreciate you I appreciate your dad and your whole family.

Cynthia Covey Haller
Thank you, Greg. It's been a pleasure to speak with you and I'm inspired by your work and what you're doing and hope others can take this idea and do it in their own lives. Thanks for having me on.

Greg Voisen
Thank you, Cynthia.

powered by

My guest for this podcast is a very good friend of mine and is the author of the critically acclaimed book The Optimal Life, Empowering Health, Healing & Longevity, Dr. Stephen Bizal. We’re here to talk about its updated and revised edition as the book was initially released back on 2008 and we had also featured that here in Inside Personal Growth back then.

Dr. Stephen is an innovator in the field of health, emotional healing, human potential & human performance. He founded the first executive health & fitness coaching company, Personalized Health & Fitness, Inc., in Southern California in 1981.

His goal is to inspire and guide people in creating optimal health and life and has done numerous programs in all sorts of media to take actions on his goal. One of these is through his book The Optimal Life: Empowering Health, Healing & Longevity.

The Optimal Life is a reader-friendly reference guide to health and healing—short, concise, practical information based upon a philosophy of living that is in alignment with nature’s wisdom and the Universal Principles that govern our experience of life, as well as health. It serves as a manual for not only taking care of your body but also creating a richer experience of life.

You may know more about Dr. Stephen on by clicking here.

I hope you enjoy this engaging interview with Dr. Stephen Bizal. Happy listening!

THE BOOK

The Optimal Life, Empowering Health Healing & Longevity is a reader-friendly reference guide to health and healing—short, concise, practical information based upon a philosophy of living that is in alignment with nature’s wisdom and the Universal Principles that govern our experience of life, as well as health. This is your “owner’s manual” for not only taking care of your body, but also creating a richer experience of life. The Optimal Life is the primer on wellness and creating well-being that you never received on your way out of the womb…a combination of a “how to” self-help guide to create well-being and the “why” behind the “how to.

THE AUTHOR

Dr. Bizal’s keynote presentations “Emotional Healing: The Missing Link in Most People’s Life” delivered at the national Biohacking Congress Conference circuit and “EmPower Your Healer Within” are based upon the Wholistic Health Model and the Universal Principles that govern our experience of health and life. His Healthy Insights blog “Biohacks to Strengthen Your Natural Immunity: Your Best Defense Against Covid” at globalmedicineman.wordpress.com continues to enlighten and empower on your personal journey to keep healthy on the road to reaching your highest human potential.

 

You may also refer to the transcripts below for the full transciption (not edited) of the interview.

Greg Voisen
Okay. Welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. This is Greg Voisen, the host of Inside Personal Growth. And I have a friend joining me from Costa Mesa, California.

I've known Dr. Steven Bizal for probably 15 plus years at this point. Yeah. And we've been friends for a long time. And his message is great. He's been on the show before, but it's been a long time. But today, what we're going to be doing is speaking about his new book, The Optimal Life: Empowering Health, Healing and Longevity, updated and revised edition that just came out on Amazon. Really great buy, I'm going to encourage all my listeners, the Kindle price is 999. And you can go up there and buy the print version as well. But Steve, I'm gonna let the listeners know a little bit about you. Because even though you and I know each other real well, the listeners don't know much about you. So as the author of this book, which is critically acclaimed, and that's why the second edition and version, he's an innovator in the field of human potential and human performance, I founded the first executive health and fitness coaching company, personalized health and fitness in Southern California. And in 1981, after helping a friend who weighed 365, lose 100 pounds, the optimal life, empowerment program wellness, lifestyle, medicine, healthy aging was the first wellness course approved by the continuing education in California for both medical chiropractic professionals. His book, the optimal life, which again, we're going to be talking about the new revised version was also online course, at psych get approved for CPE credits for psychologists, LM F Ts and RNs and social workers in California, Texas, Ohio, and Florida, is very thought provoking. He's known as America's wellness go to guy. And he really does take this and help you connect the dots. Well, Steve, welcome back to Inside personal growth. It's been a long time since we've had you on. And this new revised edition, as I was doing the review, I will say, is really great people ought to go pick this up. And you know, you have been an advocate, you and I meet for lunches, we go out, you know, we've done a lot of things of healing from a nomadic medicine approach. So that to me, that's the Mind Body Spirit approach, since you started your practice, and that goes back many, many years. How would you define the whole body approach to healing? And how does this differ from traditional healing modalities that we see we see functional medicine doctors, we see, you know, all kinds of people approaching trying to help people heal issues which are, can be deep seated from long emotional things. How would you approach it?

Dr. Stephen Bizal
Okay, Greg, why don't we do this? Let's frame this concept of what you've identified as traditional. If you're talking about traditional as the medical paradigm, and the medical paradigm of healthcare delivery, then there are doctors that just deal with the physical aspect of your body. That's one dimension, but they only look at it. Through that, through that perspective, there are doctors that deal with your mental health, psychiatrists and psychologists, and they only look at the mental piece of it. There are psychologists that work with people on an emotional level, and other folks that work on an emotional level as well. But they only address the emotional and they address each one of these specializations only addresses it in the context of their specialty and doesn't necessarily look at it in what I call the context of the whole enchilada. And that is the if you if you can embrace the concept that we're comprised of spiritual energy, emotional energy, the energy of thought, as well as the physical and they're all interrelated and they all influence each other. Then any path you go down to try to improve the quality of your life, the quality of your health or the quality of your relationships, that don't embrace an understanding of this in a relationship then what you have is a self-limiting paradigm. And that self-limiting paradigm, will will fail you at some point along the way, no matter how much energy you put into it. It's like you're still missing pieces of the puzzle unless you're looking at all those different dimensions of your life simultaneously.

Greg Voisen
What we're very complex, physical, emotional, spiritual and mental spirits that walked the planet, you know. And the divorce important thing is it's a holistic approach. Nomadic medicine is a holistic approach. You're not just in your case. Okay, having someone come in as you used to do you don't do this anymore. But in chiropractic, you know, okay, fine, this pain cracked their back, you're looking for the issues that actually created that what are the emotional things that may have caused somebody to have these things go wrong with them. And you state that when you speak about spirit, that you're referring to the essence of the individual as an at an energy level? How much of a factor is our spiritual health in curing illness that we might be dealing with, in your estimation?

Dr. Stephen Bizal
Well, I think that's the that's the hub of the wheel. That's the center of the focal point that most people are not even not even aware of great. And probably a way to put that into context, let me put it that way, is that the health care delivery model in the United States and what people know about health care from the medical paradigm, remember, the medical paradigm is based upon what we call it, Newtonian physics, which is dealing with just the material plane, the physical aspect of your life. When you're talking to Edek, when you're talking spirituality, when you're talking emotional when you're talking mental thoughts, remember, those are all energetic frames of references based upon a quantum model. The quantum mechanics, quantum physics basically puts everything in the realm of everything in the universe is based upon energy, and the flow of energy. So at one level, you could define health as being the unrestricted flow of the natural energy through all those systems in your body. And what the disease process is, is when there are impediments to that natural flow. And that's natural flow. It's not just in the in the physical in the circulation of your blood, or urine flat Act, or your nerve flow going on in the body, it has to do with the emotional energy matrix that the whole body is and it has to do with the mental thoughts that you think that basically also influence your emotions and also influence the physical and at the very core of that is, if it is true that we are energy creatures. You know, I talk about spirituality and the energy of love and the energy of love being the most important energy, the most powerful energy in the universe more powerful than any other energy. If all 50 to 100 trillion cells in your body are operating in an energy matrix that's defined by love, what that would imply is that every cell in your body then has its potential to reach its optimal potential to do whatever it is from a physiology standpoint, at a physical level that it needs to do. Likewise, if the energy matrix within which all 50 to 100 Joven in cells in your body, are operating and that energy matric looks like anger, fear, guilt, shame. Those are all energy levels that are very, very restrictive and restrict every cell in your body from being able to reach its highest potential, which sets you up for all kinds of different disease processes.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, it's so true. I mean, you know, the vibratory levels at which we attune. And I think you quoted him in your book. I'm trying to remember Hawking. Stephen Hawking. Right, David? David Hawking's. Yeah. David Hawking's, he used I went to a conference and he would say, you know, the Dalai Lama vibrates at 5000. And the average person kind of vibrates at be lucky. 700. Right. So you know, there was just such a huge difference. And I remember distinctly that, and you speak about the rules of health in your book. Can you speak with the listeners about the universal principle rules, and how these rules affect our whole being?

Dr. Stephen Bizal
Let me do this, Greg, because you brought it up there. But let me define I believe that there are two pieces of the puzzle that people need to be able to embrace and wrap their head around to be able to optimize their human potential. This time around on planet Earth. One of them is we touched on a little bit, and that is the health model that you're familiar with that I use to represent this concept of mind, body, spirit and emotion is one half of the equation and my physical A representation of that, you know, and people will find it in the book is that that concept of what I did was I took a target that has a bullseye.

Greg Voisen
Yeah. Have a question are coming up about that? Oh, you were okay. I do. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I meant to say you got all the questions, but just curious if you looked at him. But the point was, is that we know it emanates from the heart, and then goes out from there in in a circle

Dr. Stephen Bizal
and energy? Well, the energy thing, the energy thing that you were talking about is if the relationship that I use here, have you ever taken a pebble and thrown it into a pool is still water, right? What do you get? You get ripples? Which way to the ripples go? Out? From the center? Do you ever throw a stone at one point? And then the ripples start from the outside? No, there's a there's an example of universal principle that holds true all the time. And what do the ripples actually represent? The ripples actually represent the transfer of energy through the entire system. So it emanates, it starts with the essence of energy and the energy of love. That then the emanates outward in and influences your thoughts, influences your emotions and influences that physical dimension your body. So if that's half the equation, then we could describe health as being the natural consequence of the expression of spiritual energy, emotional energy, the energy of thought, being manifested in the physical plane. Right. So that's, that's half of the understanding now to address specifically what you brought up. The other way, you know, when I was playing doctor, I would work with folks, they would come in to see me. And if you had a headache, or a neck pain or back pain, I can tell you when I did a workup on you as a patient, that wasn't the only problem that you had. There were always other issues. And based upon my understanding of these other issues, I would ask you as it, Greg, if you came in to see me for a neck problem, and you had other issues, I go, are you aware of how you are contributing to the creation of these other problems in your life? And I'd usually get the deer and headlamp response. And what I couldn't understand was, you know, why, why couldn't people see that there were other dimensions of their life that were contributing to their problems they were only addressing, and

Greg Voisen
primarily because they haven't connected the dots. correctly. They, they I'm saying they I'm not saying everybody that listens to the show, or anybody, they're pretty consciously aware people, they may have already connected those dots and understand that, you know, a pain here can be associated with an emotional issue here. And unless I clean up that emotional issue, and that could be from many years of trauma, you know, call it the trauma of, you know, a father be raising a son at a certain point or a daughter, psychological, emotional, exactly. And people don't really normally think about that, because it happens in a moment it passes, they don't think that there is that much of an impact. But there really is an impact, because over time, you've buried that feeling, because you haven't worked through it, as you know. And you state that humans suffer with health problems, not because we can't resolve our health problems, but because we cannot see the truth about our health problems. Speak with our listeners about obtaining optimal health, and how they can find the truth. I mean, if this truly is an emotional issue that caused the back pain, or the neck pain, or the shoulder pain, or whatever it is, how do I find the truth in that?

Dr. Stephen Bizal
Well, you have to you have to understand every game has rules. And if you don't understand the rules of the game that you're playing, you don't even stand a chance to win. So the universal principles or you're making reference to the universal principles are the rules of the game of this is how you live life on planet Earth to optimize your potential. And there are two aspects of those universal principles, their spiritual laws and laws of nature. And just in one way I could use that health model define what happens in your physical body as a natural consequence of what's happening in those other energetic levels. The other way that I learned to look at this that made more sense to some people was I could define health as the natural consequence of you being in alignment with spiritual laws and laws of nature. So if that's how you define health, what is the disease process looking at it through that lens? The disease process happens when you're either violating spiritual laws, or laws of nature, and you're not even aware of it. So the healing process then is what the healing process very simply stated in that way, is identifying where you may be out of alignment with spiritual laws, laws of attraction laws of abundance, the law, the karma, and, and laws of nature. correcting those, so the healing process are really just getting back in alignment with spiritual laws, and laws of nature. So it's, it's gross the term

Greg Voisen
10 laws in the book,

Dr. Stephen Bizal
when it's all it's all about, you know, you know, so what's connecting the dots connecting the dots is you cannot change anything in your life unless you are aware of what's going on in the game you're in. Right. And based upon the way we've been raised, and the environment from an educational standpoint, whether it's from an educational standpoint, whether it's the religious values, whether it's political, we, you know, for example, the book that you held up there, if you had that book when you came out of the womb, and it lists the 10 principles of wellness and goes into deeper detail explaining at a deeper level, but at a layman's standpoint, what all this means you would have, we would have all stood a better chance of creating a healthier, happier life.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, I mean, I think the probability is greater. I think that this is a process though. And it requires a lot of diligence. And on all levels, you know, we were talking about how we think how we behave, how we form habits, how psychologically we react, or we act, we're talking about food consumption, exercise, all of these things play roles into the cells health in the body, and you speak about the phases of the disease process, right? We say dis ease process, what are they? And why is detoxification, one of the cures for these degenerative diseases? Because all right, I get it. There's a lot of detox diets out there. But I don't, I don't think you're just talking about detox, meaning, let's go let's go. You know, let's go on a fast. That's not this the Dr. Steven bizarre way. You're talking about detox in a very, very large, universal picture here. So speak with the listeners about that, if you would

Dr. Stephen Bizal
read it. Oh, Greg, that's a great question. Because that you're absolutely right. The detox I'm talking about is the the detoxing of the negative thoughts you have in the gray matter between your ears. Right. It's also talking about detoxing from the unresolved emotional business from the past that's never been addressed, that sits in your subconscious mind. Most people believe that their that the decisions that they make, remember, we are where there's some accumulation of all of our words, all of our thoughts, all of our actions, to get us where we are now. So everything that we do in our life contributes to the outcome of what we're experiencing in some way. And you know, when we talk about awareness, that just sounds like an intellectual pursuit. And I and I get it. All right. And like yourself, I've been a constant learner. But it wasn't until I was struggling to the point where I hit the wall. And I asked myself, dude, why is your night life not working out here? Why are you not happy? Why are you not feeling connected with people? That it wasn't until I hit the wall, and didn't know what else to do that I started asking, Okay, if it is true, that I'm contributing to the creation of everything that isn't working in my life, what is it that I need to know and understand? To be able even to start to address any and all of these issues? So it's an it's a, an, I think it's by nature of being born human is that sometimes we have to hit that depth of the low, low, low points in our life before we're willing to really take a look and go, Okay, what's going on here? I'm tired of suffering.

Greg Voisen
So in your case, what did you need to understand that you think is relatively universal? So behind all this, right, someone has identifies a problem. The problem manifests in some way within the body.

Dr. Stephen Bizal
Well not let me stop you, Greg. Not just in the body. If you're struggling in any aspect of your life. If you're struggling in relationships,

Greg Voisen
yeah, emotionally meant mentally, emotionally, right? So what is it that if a listener out there right now is listening to you, they're gonna go get your book. All right? And they're gonna want to learn about this. If you had your own struggles which every human person, you know, the Buddha said, there's suffering, and then there's the end of suffering, right? So at the end of suffering has to come by an awareness. What awareness did you have?

Dr. Stephen Bizal
There were when I, when I first hit the wall and realize that my, that I was struggling in my life wasn't working. I had a couple of realizations. And when I was able to embrace these couple of realizations, then at least gave me a frame of reference have given me some direction on knowing where to go. The very first one was that let me see, let me there were several of them. But I think the most, the most important realization was the realization that everything that I was experiencing in my life, I was contributing to the creation of in some way. Now think about how powerful that is. Because if that is true, inheriting

Greg Voisen
you didn't blame anyone else. You took full responsibility. That was your realization, a lot of people, Steve, as you know, they'll say, they did it to me, or it happened out there. It was somebody else that did it. We know one of the first principles of Universal Why is taking 100% Responsibility for all your own actions. Right? Well,

Dr. Stephen Bizal
and that's, that's how I define it is that was the second realization was that the, for me to be able to if I fully wanted to be in charge of my life, and not be a victim to anything else that was going on, and I really bought into that concept of everything that I do contributes to my outcome. And I'm willing to do exactly what you said. And that is, except, and I even when I defined this for myself, I didn't give myself any wiggle room. Okay, when I decided to commit myself to this path, and when I say no wiggle room, the very next thing I realized is okay, if I was going to take this journey, take this path, I needed to commit to being 100%, not just responsible, but accountable. For what, for all of my feelings, all of my thoughts, all of my words, and all of my actions. There's no wiggle room there. Right? All right. And if I was willing to commit to that, I believed in my heart of hearts, because I didn't know what the journey was going to look like. People talk to me all the time about okay, what does that look like? What course do I need to take to change my life? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah? No, you need to have that internal conversation with yourself, you need to have what I call that come to Jesus meeting, about what is and what is not working in your life. And then you have to ask yourself one question, if it ain't working, and you're not quite sure what to do, are you willing to do what you have to do in order to get what you want, and in this case, change your life. So the third part on that was to be open minded to the fact that there are things that you're not aware of, that you need to know and you need to understand. And one of those things is that we're holistic in nature. Right? There's an emotional piece, there's a mental piece, I'm like, so Okay, so if there's all these four pieces, or even though my relationship isn't working, what are these other parts? How do they play out, in my mind, emotionally in the body? Because if I'm aware of what they are, at least I have a direction of knowing what type of research that I need to do. from a learning standpoint, to become aware, so that I can change because you can't change anything without awareness. And

Greg Voisen
you do a really good job in the book of outlining 10 principles of wellness, the 10 principles of wellness, if you would, for the listeners, I don't know, I'm sure I would think you would remember them. But what are they? How easy is it for our listeners to transmute bad habits and insert your healthy living principles into their lives? Because they're, they're in here. Okay. Idea. Well, my homework prior to coming on the air here. And with I think even if you just mentioned them, the 10 principles, people would get a lot out of it. Well, and

Dr. Stephen Bizal
again, this is based upon my life's experiences of my own healing journey, and then having played doctor for a bunch of years, and that was just about trying to help people figure it out for themselves, you know. So that's why I use the term that you use, you know, what the book is really all about is connecting the dots. And I think what I, what I saw was, people in their heart of hearts were expending a lot of energy. All right, trying to change things in their life. And I saw that all that was, they just had pieces of the puzzle that were missing. That was all it was. So I went okay. Because I never sat down to, to write a book to be an author, I didn't get started that way. What I found is when I was playing doctor, just trying to help people from an educational standpoint, based upon what I was learning, I coalesced and started putting all this stuff together over time based upon my healing journey, and people struggles, and identified what I call the dots. And I chose the 10 principles of wellness, because I just considered them like the 10 commandments. Right? And so based upon the health model we talked about previously, I said, Okay, what does it take? What are you gonna, what does it take to get to be healthy in every aspect of your life? Right? And I said, So very simply. And this ties back to the health model. Number one is you need healthy spiritual energy. Number two, you need healthy emotions. And let me just tag on something. Every disease process, what I learned over time, is every disease process has its origin and unresolved emotional pain in a person's life. Yep. Now at another time, we can go deeper into that one. I mean, there's a whole conversation around the emotional healing piece that I address in my global medicine man.wordpress.com blog, that people are willing to go to, and it's a three-part series. The third then is having accurate thoughts and belief system is your belief systems and thoughts about how the world works? And how you work in the world? Is it accurate or inaccurate? Because if it is inaccurate, and you're making your decisions around inaccuracy, how in the hell would you ever expect to get an optimal outcome? Right? So you know, those and I put them in order of priority, those first three, and then after that, what is the most important then we get to the physical? So we talked about the spiritual, we talked about the emotional, we talked about the accurate belief systems, and then we get into the physical, and what's the most important nutrient for the human body? Now before you answer that, because you already know the answer. You know, this book was a course that I taught, continuing education in the state of California teaching doctors, the wellness health model, the wellness paradigm that we're discussing, I would ask this question of whether they were chiropractors or medical doctors in the room? What's the most important nutrient for the human body? I would start with a quiz. Very seldom did they get it right? The most important nutrient for the human body is oxygen. Yep. And if the most important nutrient for the human body as oxygen, then what's the most important exercise?

Greg Voisen
Anything that would move your heart,

Dr. Stephen Bizal
breathing, breathing? Now think about this, how this the breathing, and if you if you look at what's the core issue around yoga and meditation, breathing, it's how you're breathing while you're going through each one of these things. So you see, there's all kinds of levels that connect the dots here that I that I present, simplistically. All right, then if the most important nutrient of the body has oxygen, what is the next most important nutrient of the body?

Greg Voisen
Was water, right? Hydration, hydration.

Dr. Stephen Bizal
All right. So then from there, there's you know, hormone balance is one of them. Keeping the body alkaline, which is very important in the context of all the process, foods that people reading in this day and age, which that on top with, in addition to the medications is making everybody's internal Biological Environment acidic, which then is the basis for a lot of the physical disease processes that are compounded by emotional issues, psychological issues, so it's all related. And all I tried to do is break that all out. So let's move into those

Greg Voisen
do a great job of it in the book and I think there's, there's charged there's grass, there's questions. So for my listeners, at the end of each one of these chapters, he has questions for you to ponder and write about think about you know, you speak about unhealthy emotions. We've talked about this now for the last 25 minutes. Right now these emotions play this big role in our health. But there's two things we haven't talked about. Okay. One is the role of our conscious mind in our subconscious mind. If you would talk about the roles they play, and what are the 10 healing principles that you talk about in the book? We're, you got through five of them so far.

Dr. Stephen Bizal
Yeah, well, they're the food you eat. There's exercise. The other one's the one thing

Greg Voisen
about if you would, because, you know, you've talked about, okay, we've got to change our, the way we think we've got to change our beliefs. But the subconscious mind plays such an important role in all of this. We haven't really addressed how to reprogram that subconscious mind. And I know you have some ideas on that.

Dr. Stephen Bizal
I have some thoughts. Oh, my What a surprise. No, that's a what most people don't realize is most people think that they're making the decisions in their life, that the decisions that they're making, they're making it a conscious level, based upon having awareness and consciousness of what they are making decisions about. What most people would be surprised to find out is that what influences 90% of your decision making and the decisions that you make, don't happen at a conscious level. It comes from the programming that has happened over time at a subconscious level, right? That if we want to take it all the way back, and your subconscious, it's all in that emotional frame of reference. Here's what people don't realize, from the moment of conception, Greg, and you and me for the first nine months of gestation, while we were in our mother's womb, we were under the influence of our mother's emotional matrix energy. So that means for the entire nine months, as the fetus was evolving and growing, every cell in your body was exposed to all the feelings that your mother was going through all the joy, all the happiness, but then again, all the sadness, all the pain, all the anger, or the frustration. So by the time that you come out of the womb, guess what, you already have emotional cellular memory, ingrained in every cell in that little baby body. Now, anybody that has children, you remember, when you're when your babies were little, they only experienced the world at a, quote, feeling level. And the world either felt good, or it didn't. And based upon a lot of the negative conditioning that happens over time, what happens at a subconscious level, we start to create filters, that when they in the Alpha state that by the time the beta brain kicks starts to kick in 4567 years later, as a child, you're already looking at the world through whatever filters that were created at an emotional level. Yeah, and most of them aren't the happy ones, most of them are, are the negative and the traumatic ones that happened at an emotional level, based upon the behaviors, the natural behavior you created as a child to survive in an emotional environment, not having what you and I have now as adults, the wherewithal to interpret correctly what was going on at the time. Here, let me give you an example. Okay. An example of this is your three years old, you're playing with a ball out in the front yard, the ball starts to roll out into the street. Mom's watching this she freaks out and she screams Great. Get away. Don't run out into the street. Don't. Don't chase the ball. Okay. Now, at three years old, Greg, you are I probably didn't go wow, look at that. Mom's freaking out. I know, this is all about her. Okay, I won't go out in the street. No, what happens is it puts you and me at three years old, our emotional body, it puts us into a state of shock. And the message that it sends us when we get too many of those. Is there something wrong with me? There's something wrong with me. There's something wrong with me. I can't figure out why my relationships don't work. I'm not happy. You see what I mean? So there's and that's an oversimplified version. But I read from a psychology standpoint, how many negative life's experiences you have by the time you're five years old? It's compared to the positive ones.

Greg Voisen
Well, I think you talked a little bit about quantity Physics Sonoma relate back to something that I recently heard, you know, talk about the cosmic dream, and are dreaming. In, in the two states of which we exist, that being what we think is this real world here right now, right? We, you and I are on a podcast, right? We say this is the real world. And really, so what is the difference between that state of consciousness and the consciousness in which you had some dreams that you remembered? Didn't remember? You were just, basically they're the same. And I what I'm saying is for people, like you just said about mom yelling at me going out to the ball to get it in the street. Right? How about one where in a dream, a monster is chasing you? And you're like, it just keeps coming after you. And finally, you hit this dead end the monsters there, and you're saying, what do you want? And the monster then says, what do you want? Right? Right? What I'm saying, it's like, that is the kind of message you're receiving at night when you're dreaming. But in your daytime, what you think is reality. There isn't any separation, the only thing is the detachment to what you really believe is real or not real. So with that being said, you speak about so much in this book, but changing inaccurate and limiting belief systems. is one of the things you talked about, can you help the listeners identify and transmute? What would you do to help them transmute limiting beliefs? Because that's where those limiting beliefs start from?

Dr. Stephen Bizal
That's where you're right. That's where That's where they start. Yeah. All right. Well, the first thing you'd have to come to grips with is that, believe it or not, we're all starting from a point of a limiting belief system. Because when we had these experiences when we were younger, and they're all emotional, we created thought patterns based upon inaccurate perceptions. See, at three years old, we had an inaccurate perception, that inaccurate perception that developed over time, was there something wrong with me, the accurate perception was, oh, listen, there's nothing wrong with me. That was just mom freaking out, I get that. Now, if you had the ability to do that, at three years old, you would be owning your power. See, most people don't realize that because of all the emotional trauma. You know, whatever the degree was, the psychological trauma, no matter what the degree is you know, from the small to the large. inadvertently what happened to us, is, because when we were little we were victims, we were victims in the true sense of the word. Because we didn't have the power, we didn't realize we had the power that was greater than things that were happening around us. So that first level of realization is that if you'll find what you would find is, no matter what your struggle is, what it looks like. Part of the key to turning any kind of struggle situation around and not suffer, is to realize that you have more power to determine the outcomes in your life than you're realizing at that present moment. And that, in essence, the term that they use is that you didn't realize it. But we all gave up our power to different paradigms. When we were younger. It was to what mom and dad were saying. It was what the teachers were telling us in school. It was what the religions were telling us it was what we heard about the politics. See this we weren't free thinkers coming from a place of knowing that we had the power to be able to interpret things accurately. So we start at that, at the at the end of being ignorant, we start being ignorant. And having given up our power, and the game is to realize that you do have the power to change. But for you to take back your power, you have to do what you brought up originally, you have to accept 100% accountability and responsibility for all your thoughts, your words and your actions. And part of that response,

Greg Voisen
one of those things that I I'm certain it's addressed, but I'll just say for the listeners, they've heard this. A lot of times the negative self-talk, which then programs, every element of everything, everything right, right? It starts to permeate. And then the words that you speak to yourself and others, and it's like other people say Wow, dude, where are you talking like that right now? But you know, it's like, you have to wake up to the fact of how you're programming this subconscious awareness and the self-awareness of that. And I think there's two things you can take away from this show is, is one, what is the negative self-talk? And what are those limiting beliefs? Right?

Dr. Stephen Bizal
Well, and most people are there, they're in denial, many times that they're even having negative thoughts or negative self-talk, they're so conditioned. And it's been because it becomes so remote or so. What's the word I'm looking for here? Automatic, that they don't even realize they're doing it again, and again, and again. And again. And it just, this is like working out, you get your muscles strong. When you're doing negative self-talk, you're getting your negative self-talk muscles strong. And then it's harder to break out of that. And that's why open mindedness is such a critical issue here. Totally, totally. And being open minded and not no matter. It's okay to feel whatever you're feeling, I would never want somebody to deny that. But because we have a brain that allows us to think you can look at that, and realize that well, maybe that's not accurate. If you just question, anything that you're struggling with, you might find there's another way to look at it. That isn't a negative self-talk.

Greg Voisen
Well, it is your perception of your own reality. And that's the how you shift that perception is by asking those questions, and you have lots of those questions in the book. I mean, it's loaded with questions at the end of the chapter. So

Dr. Stephen Bizal
Well, each chapter, Greg, each chapter, if I may, for your audience, the even if you don't want to read the whole book, because I know it's kind of like 360 pages of factual information, this and the other thing, but what you brought up is there are 13 chapters at the end of each chapter, there are 10, what I call must know, which is the summary of the highlights of that chapter. Yeah. And then based on that, based on that, then there are 10, what I call must dues, which would be the implementations that you can do to address that aspect of your life in each one of those 10 wellness principles.

Greg Voisen
And they're very clear at the end of each one of these chapters, by the way. So for those of you, you will go to Amazon. And you'll get this book. Now to wrap up our interview, Steve, okay. It's filled, books filled with wisdom. It's filled with great advice. It focuses on things we need to do to become aware of how to become more holistic in the way in which we live. What three things can you leave the listeners with right now that can change their life today and make them healthier? Emotionally, physically, psychologically, spiritually? What are three things that they can apply? Right now? They walk away from this podcast and go, Man, that was a great podcast because that dude that Dr. Steven Rizal gave me three things that I could work on.

Dr. Stephen Bizal
All right, can I give you four one of them is going to be Steve bisol. And in three of them is Steve resolves version of something that David Hawkins said that I absolutely loved. All right. This Steve bizarre one and I found the most powerful tool that I could use for myself to change my life was every morning, before I got out of bed. As soon as I opened my mind, I set the intentions of what I wanted to create for the day, which allows you to live in the present moment and then apply what your intentions are throughout the day. That's how you create the ultimate change. And here's an example. Okay, what does that look like? For me? It was I woke up. When I wake up first thing in the morning, the intention I create is or that I establish is I want to be as loving, as kind as considerate, as compassionate as understanding as patient, as tolerant as I can possibly be. With all people at all times in every situation I run into today. Can I be a better version of myself today than I was yesterday, just as a human being. You'd be amazed at two things number 190 9% of the population never sets an intention when they get out of it. And you know the power of the mind. So if you did that, that's your Steve bisol ism.

Greg Voisen
I will add one add to this list. Okay, before I pop out of bed and the fact that you woke up, give gratitude for you know, the look at you have your site, you have your ability to walk, you have your ability to just get up and get around and do things and be constructive, constructive, and I always every morning. Thank God for all that I have been given. And I'd say so if you're going to set intentions, set those intentions with gratitude.

Dr. Stephen Bizal
You get an A plus dude. Well, you know what's interesting yesterday, I appreciate you having me on the podcast, I still haven't forgotten about the three. But you know, you and I could take this and expand it into one week workshop. You know, because I know your I know your background, dude.

Greg Voisen
So what is what is?

Dr. Stephen Bizal
What are the three? Yeah, okay, the three, the three that David Hawkins. All right. And then I Steve bisol is isn't alright. Okay, was the Hopkins said something very profound. He said, you know, you don't need a guru. In your life, you don't need to find a guru, he goes the road to enlightenment, there's only three things that you need to do. Number one is you need to be kind that all the to exhibit all that exists. What I added to that was beginning with you. Number two was you need to be able to see the beauty and all things. Well, what Steve has all added was beginning with you. And the third was embrace humility and be willing to forgive.

Greg Voisen
Beginning with you, beginning with you, I like that, you know, those are great things that people anybody can do. Anybody can do, right? Easy to adopt, easy to remember, you know, the first powerful, powerful, powerful set intentions. Gratitude, I added with gratitude.

Dr. Stephen Bizal
Okay, so it's a great voice, and Steve is all one. Okay. All

Greg Voisen
Right, now there's four. And then the ones that you just gave, but I think what's really important here is that the people should go out to books.drbizal, b-i-z-a-l.com. And get a copy of the book, either the Kindle version, or the paperback. Isn't that thick. And the type is big enough. You know, look, folks, you can read this pretty quick. This isn't that difficult. It's really, really a great book. And it, it addresses every level of where you are in your life. In other words, if you're a beginner, this is a great book. If you're somebody who's had advanced training and all these things we've been talking about, this is a great book, because it's a reminder, because we it's one thing to talk about this, it's another thing to actually take action on it. And Steve, I want to thank you for being on inside personal growth and sharing again, go to books.drbisal.com. To learn more, pick up a copy of the book. Namaste to you. Thanks, Brad. Everything you have with gratitude and intention at the highest level. And bless everyone. Thanks, Steve.

Dr. Stephen Bizal
Thank you, Greg.

powered by

This podcast features Seth Goldenberg. He is a designer, activist, curator, and entrepreneur and he is also the author of new book Radical Curiosity: Questioning Commonly Held Beliefs to Imagine Flourishing Futures.

Seth is also the founder and CEO of Epic Decade, a design studio propelling cultural change. He harnesses the power of questioning to catalyze innovation and cultural change. Blending diverse practices of philosophy, experience design, storytelling, and public engagement, he’s developed a signature inquiry-based methodology that challenges commonly held beliefs to imagine flourishing futures.

Moreover, on August 23rd, 2022, in collaboration with Crown at Penguin Random House, he published his first book entitled Radical Curiosity, which articulates his strategic framework as a practice for individuals, businesses, and communities to thrive during a time of significant reinvention. In this book, Seth argues that because we value knowing above learning and prioritize doing over thinking, curiosity has become an endangered species.

If you’re interested and want to know more about what Seth does, you may click here to visit his company website.

I hope you learn and enjoy from my engaging interview with Seth Goldenberg. Happy listening!

THE BOOK

With this empowering book, Seth introduces the practice of Radical Curiosity through the lens of seven narratives that are going through significant transformation: Learning, Cohesion, Time, Youth, Aliveness, Nature, and Value. Along the way, he unpacks principles intended to spark our own questioning, including:

• Education is too big to fail, but maybe it should.
• Time travel isn’t reserved for DeLoreans.
• Let us now praise rural communities.
• Survival economics have made imagination a luxury good.

THE AUTHOR

Seth Goldenberg is a designer, activist, curator, and entrepreneur who harnesses the power of questioning to catalyze innovation and cultural change. Blending diverse practices of philosophy, experience design, storytelling, and public engagement, he’s developed a signature inquiry-based methodology that challenges commonly held beliefs to imagine flourishing futures. On August 23rd, 2022, in collaboration with Crown at Penguin Random House, he will publish his first book Radical Curiosity, which articulates his strategic framework as a practice for individuals, businesses, and communities to thrive during a time of significant reinvention.

 

You may also refer to the transcripts below for the full transciption (not edited) of the interview.

Greg Voisen
Welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. This is Greg Voisen and the host of Inside Personal Growth. Hey, and Seth, all my listeners know me they just don't know you. Joining me is Seth Goldenberg. And Seth has a brand new book out literally like two days ago called Radical curiosity, the questioning, commonly held beliefs to imagine flourishing futures. I will, right off the bat tell people get this book, we're gonna have a link to Amazon. This is really well written, well designed, well thought out. And Seth is the guy you're going to want to listen to today. And Seth, I'm going to take a minute to tell my listeners a tad bit about you. Because they know all they need to know about me, but they don't know what they need to know about you yet. And then when they're done with this interview, they're going to race out and get a copy of your book. So Seth is the founder and CEO of curiosity and company a purpose driven design, business and Innovation Studio propelling cultural change, formerly known as epic decade, curiosity and company has tackled a series of high profile projects to solve some of the most ambitious economic public health and environmental challenges with Fortune 500 clients such as Apple American Express and PepsiCo, leading nonprofit organizations and regional governments curiosity and company also hosts ideas salons, custom designed exclusive retreat and conference attended by Nobel Prize winners, senators and executives from companies. Well, that's enough about you. The reality is, he's a thinker. He's a thought leader, and he's a doer. And I appreciate that about authors who are out there doing it. And he is, and one way to do it is to write a book so that everybody can pay attention to the message. And I think that's really important. Seth, if you would tell the listeners about how you came to write radical curiosity. Everybody's heard curiosity. They just haven't heard the word radical and trying to get probably, why do you believe that curiosity is on the verge of extinction with was you quote, a devastating consequences. And what I love about this, folks, just for those listening, Seth is going to get you to think if there's one thing that's happened is I think people have gone on to automatic pilot about thinking, right, and their critical thinking skills. So if there's any one person that could re infuse their critical thinking skills, it's going to be sad. So how did you write this? Why did you write it? And why do you believe we're on the verge of extinction with devastating, devastating consequences?

Seth Goldenberg
Well, what an introduction, I love your energy, it's so wonderful to be able to visit with you. So thank you for that. I love that we're diving right into the juiciest one first,

Greg Voisen
so that your family and your kids and your dogs gonna show up. So then we get

Seth Goldenberg
so? Well, I think to answer your first question, you know, I have had a design studio for just over a decade. And I've been a practitioner of design thinking and all kinds of strategic cultural change, kind of work for almost 25 years now. And for me, radical curiosity was my opportunity to codify a new blended practice that we realize every day in our studio. So radical curiosity isn't just an idea to actually what we're calling the operating system of my creativity studio. And that term, dear point, that special word radical, it really comes from the Latin root of Rata callous, right, which really means getting to the roots of things. And I think what we've really come to realize my team, and I have biologists and educators and anthropologists a very interdisciplinary kind of ensemble. But we've come to realize that what we really help leaders and organizations and individuals work on is what are the deep assumptions that are causing the models for how we live, learn, work, play and sustain ourselves? And are those legacy models real? Can we up end them? Can we redesign them? If we want a world that is more flourishing? We probably have to ask questions, that curiosity part, but not just passive questions, questions that really get to the roots of things and that's really what the book is all about.

Greg Voisen
Well, what I like about the book is it's somebody always told me want to write a good book, whisper in their ear, the message they want to hear. In other words, like a good friend, I felt like this book was a good friend, it was actually speaking to something that I resonate with. So I wanted to read more and understand more. Plus, the way it's laid out and designed, is superior. So you open the book with a story about Steve Jobs and his friend Johnny IV. Hope I got that right. In an op in New York, Wall Street Journal article as being the most curious person he'd ever known. Seth, how is it that you define the radical career? acity? And what is it about Steve Jobs that made him so radically curious? I agree with his with his buddy. But I also know there's other thinkers out there that have been radically curious beyond Steve Jobs as well. And you might want to mention a few of those in the answer to this as well. Yeah.

Seth Goldenberg
No, I love that. Yeah. I mean, one of the pleasures of my life was working intimately with some of the executives at Apple, it was actually one of our first clients when I formed my company. And as a designer, Apple is like, the demigod Apple is, you know, Mount Olympus, right? Yeah. Johnny Ive is, has really shaped the design field, Johnny was and will always have a legacy as the Chief Design Officer, who really forged a very special kind of friendship with Steve and the two of them really built much of apple and of course, major figures, like Tim have been extraordinarily influenced influential along the way. But I think that the creativity that Johnny I've and Steve Jobs shared, why open there, as you know, when we put Steve on a kind of pedestal, so many of us, right, he's such an iconic figure. And I think there's still probably not a great nuanced understanding of what made him so special. I mean, even with the Walter Isaacson book on him, and etc. right?

Greg Voisen
Exposing things that you maybe didn't want to hear about him. But

Seth Goldenberg
exactly. I mean, he's your man. He's, he's complex and godly.

Greg Voisen
Exactly. All right.

Seth Goldenberg
But I think but I think that why open with that I love to Gianni is also a very private person. And I thought it was very beautiful. And, and I think she, I think he reveals an intimacy about naming curiosity as his view of what made Steve so special. And so even though there's biographers, and there's journalists, and there's people are one, two to seven, Kevin Bacon steps away from Steve, to have Gianni such an intimate friendship say, what made him special was his curiosity. And he describes it in that passage as a ferocious inquiry into life. Yes. And that for me, I think, to your point, that's not just a Steve thing. Many leaders have that we all may have that inside of us. And so I just thought it was a wonderful way to save sure Apple is a trillion dollar company, we all hold their products in our pockets. But you know, isn't it amazing that the most intimate friend named wasn't his business savvy. It wasn't the trillion dollar impact that we all kind of feel overwhelmingly brand idolatry for, but it was his curiosity that made him a great leader.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, you know, and reflecting as you're speaking of that, Steve Jobs, you know, I also reflect that what came up for me was Walt Disney. You know, and as a young lad, I think I was six or seven, I actually got to meet him. I shook his hand. You know, you know, the curiosity the man had in the in the fervor for life and, and to experiment and to not be afraid of risk and to go do the things that need to be done. When you talk about curiosity. It's like it's there, tons of curiosity. You know, you've hosted 3000 idea salons across the country over the last 10 years. And you engage your clients to leverage questions and rewrite legacy, as you say, narratives that no longer serve them. And, you know, I'm almost kind of looking at him as our bias to Right. It's like we have been ingrained with these bias. I always remember Margaret Wheatley used to speak about the ecosystems that we would live in, and the effects that we've had on him. What have you learned about reinvigorating the power of human inquiry into life and being able to kind of sustain it, because, you know, a salon is a salon, you're there for a day or two days, or three days, whatever the retreat is, you leave. And then I'm like, well, how do I sustain this energy? And then insert it into my company, into my people into my world into my design into anything? And the reality is, it's like, how, how do I imbibe this? You know, I take like, let's drink it, let's just give me that. And I think that is the million dollar question, isn't it?

Seth Goldenberg
Right? Yeah, absolutely. I love your gesture. It's so wonderful, you know, I look, and I'm not sure there's a silver bullet, you know, I loved your description of the book, in terms of, you know, a whispering, you know, into the ear, right, that kind of seduction of it all. I mean, I think living a life of inquiry, embracing curiosity as a lifestyle. I mean, that is the ultimate, lifelong project. It's not a day or two or three of the retreat. But it's also not a single project, where it doesn't show up in one part of your life and not another. I mean, I think it's really a mental model of how we show up to ourselves, how we show up for our people, how we want to contribute to the world, I think, for me, like I began as an artist, I was the oil painter quite young, exhibiting in art galleries, and I evolved into design, I am now an entrepreneur, I like to build businesses, almost like I see those as new canvases, new works of art. But I think being curious is about that same kind of Steve Jobs kind of insatiable, right? I'm constantly hungry. And I loved your mention of Walt Disney. You know, there's a great quote, he says, we’re curious, we keep opening new doors,

Greg Voisen
imagination. Absolutely. I would, I don't want to interrupt you. But I do this podcast show almost 16 years. I always wonder, the impetus. And I had a little Jewish mother. That was the most curious person in the whole world. You could sit down with her, anybody she didn't know. And 20 minutes later, she knew everything about you. So good. So I keep thinking to myself that maybe my culture has inspired you know, this what you talk about in grading this in your DNA. I was kind of ingrained with it. I had a mother that no matter who I brought over, she had 27,000 questions before they left. You know, even I was with I had that same mother. Honest to God. I went to the other day, and I'm not dropping names here. But grant Benning was the guy that first hired me, his daughter is Annette Benning. He's 96. I went to his house the other day and brought him lunch, because he's not real ambulatory. So I brought him lunch. And he sat there and he says, I remember your mother was like, what? He said, do you remember that your mother had to interview me first before you took the job. And I was like, yeah, she had all kinds of questions, didn't she? Seriously, he says Your mother was the only mother that ever I ever got interviewed by before anyone was hired.

Seth Goldenberg
Well, I love that as an example, right? I mean, whether it's the kind of artists sensibility or there's something imprinted in the Jewish cultural mindset, I think there's lots of reasons that questions and curiosity guide different kinds of traditions, right?

Greg Voisen
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, you speak that we're in this cultural in how do you say it? I n t er, e g, u n u m?

Seth Goldenberg
Yeah. It's this concept that we're living in an interregnum, like cultural Regnum.

Greg Voisen
I wanted to make sure I got the right word, right, which is in transition between fundamentally different states sets of value catalyzing an evolution in shared framework of the human experience. That's a mouthful, but it's really pretty simple and then When I say this, that we will question the legacy narratives that in turn the norms, beliefs, and mindsets that we inherited from preceding generations, speak with us with the wood about these five pillars of radical curiosity and the shifts, that we can make it our consciousness and worldview, because at the heart of this, at the true heart is really questioning the current worldviews and our beliefs and our perspectives, which is why the book is so intriguing to me and will be to everybody who buys it. Because you can actually start questioning your questions.

Seth Goldenberg
Indeed, then, well, maybe it'd be helpful maybe just to even frame up what is this interregnum idea? First things that might be most useful? I mean, to your point, it does sound like a mouthful. But actually think of society as a like your own personal laptop, and we install a new OS system we're putting on Yosemite, we're installing Yosemite or whatever the new OS system is, can you doesn't matter? Yeah. Whenever your computer shuts down at re wires, the code, the code, our guiding principles for how the computer operates? Correct. I believe that our nation, our society, our world, is kind of going through an OS upgrade. I agree. And the interregnum is an idea that tries to describe that. So traditionally, an interregnum is almost like a baton pass between governments, right? one party to another party, one leader to another leader. It's the space between two elections. Let's say, that's a traditional interregnum. But I've kind of consumed I propose this new term, what if not government, but what if culture is going through that baton pass? Right? And the reason I bring this up? And I think it relates to your question is, look, so many basic human experiences are getting rewritten right now. There are now more than 57 genders you can identify with on social media. I'm sure the individual that first hired you at 90 plus years old, may not have conceived of the very idea that we would in mainstream popular culture, embrace 57 identities of gender, so many ideas that we thought were unquestionable, like, this is how the world is. This is how bank works. Nope, too big to fail, the bank went away. Thank you economic crisis, so many things that were stable ideas are getting up ended and reimagined and becoming more open. And it's a very exciting time to be alive. I think because of that,

Greg Voisen
that have you would you say? Or would you agree with this comment that political structures, governmental structures, educational structures, our own identities? That it's somewhat messy. It's one thing to go to apple and ask them to download Catalina 15 point 2.3 Make sure my system works. But as human beings, I think we've all gotten this a bit messy.

Seth Goldenberg
Absolutely. I love that you said it like that. Because I mean, in some ways that passes the baton. And I appreciate your very kind comments about the book because we have a series of diagrams that actually that in between space, I actually kind of call the messy middle to your point that in between zone where it feels like a lot of friction, almost like growing pains between one model and the next one. I think when you think about it this way, when you read the newspaper, you look at world events. It's helpful to conceive that of this moment happening this protest this governmental shift this policy, these are indicators or little moments of evidence of that messy space, that friction you're talking about. Right?

Greg Voisen
So you know, when you look at it, I mean, let's face it, we in a history of our lives, I'm 68 years old. So when you when you your perspective about how the Internet has sped up information and how we receive information, how we digest information, how we go through this actually allows us to and I'm going to say it's been the evolutionary Oh copper in this guy wouldn't say it's the only helper but it certainly has been a big evolutionary helper in having us question. And even, all the way from democratization standpoint, all the way down to everybody in the world, because we all can carry on, as you said, a minute ago, this device and receive information to actually start to assimilate question and think about things, including interpreting different languages across the device, right? Anything you want to add to that? Or am I No,

Seth Goldenberg
I love I love where you're taking us because it, it aligns with an argument that I'm proposing the book that I mean, as we both to this gesture, right, a Hollywood film studio, and all of wisdom of all libraries on the planet now fit in our pocket. And so what that means is that knowledge has become a commodity. And so if knowledge is a commodity, then curiosity is not so much about the recall and regurgitation, maybe of traditional education, where we're memorizing information, demonstrating it in colloquial school. But actually, Curiosity is really about the discovery and the continual innovation of new knowledge. Right? So the danger is, if we just rest on preexisting knowledge, and we're just administering the solution sets that already exist, we begin to rest on our laurels, and we no longer create new wisdom in the world.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, and you know, you ask a big question in the book, and I, I, you know, look, my wife was a school teacher for 24 years. So I get it. And this is around education. This is around education. learning, learning. So you propose a big idea in the book. And you state that the compulsory education, or I should say education system, is a policy that requires school attendance, by law, but what is education for? And should it be compulsory? You ask? I mean, this is a salon question, right? You hopefully you had a bunch of educators in the salon, and you did this, that education is too big to fail, but maybe it should, that probably wouldn't go over too well. And a lot of the bureaucrats in the education sector, but they really need to think about it. And that brought up this this little quandary that people have been having now about Biden saying he's going to actually release everybody from their debt from education. And I'm like, well, how I paid my student loans. Why should everybody else right? So politically, speak with us about the differences between education and learning, and the movement of unlearning? And unschooling? Because this is a big one.

Seth Goldenberg
No, I love I love the convergence of your of your inquiry, because you're pulling on some my favorite and most dangerous ideas. I mean, I think the challenge on the provocation there is to say, we have institutionalized things we have maybe made the management and the techniques and the tactics more important than the origin of why we're doing things in the first place. And this is a problem across every sector, not just education. Sometimes I think we, we get so far downstream, and we're moving the pieces, but we forget why we're even in the adventure to begin with. And so it's, you know, it's that great quote from I think it was, might have been Albert Einstein, who said, you know, the only thing that gets in the way of my learning is education. Right? And so I think for me, I actually I love learning. I'm a lifelong learner. I would be in school forever if I could. I think the question is

Greg Voisen
where you are, yeah. Well, you're in the school of life right now. And you're, and you're a teacher, you're teaching.

Seth Goldenberg
Well said Well said, well, my wife is an educator. I fell in love with her and this beautiful school that she helped originate, which is all about community and civic engagement. So I'm with you. I just think even with that example, school does not have to be the four walled classroom. Right learning does not need to have curricular standards and beer. kradic committees reviewing, you know, the intake of what you remember, I think that what we need to do in every one of these social systems, health, housing, justice, learning, we need to remind ourselves, what do we even mean by these pursuits? When we started them, we kind of pushed the Y aside. So the compulsory point is, we set up these kind of paradoxes. Does everyone believe K to 12, public education is working and as the best it's ever imagined itself know, everybody's got their story, they said, well, I would do this differently, that different, it's not great. If anything, it's, you know, really complex. I'll get to your unlearning question in a minute. But then we say, but by the way, if you don't go, we're gonna throw you in jail, called truancy. Right? I mean, we've set up these paradoxes for ourselves. And so rather than ask hard questions, be radically curious and say, what do we really mean? What is the purpose of learning in our society? Is it for enlightenment? Is it for citizenship? Is it for skills? Is it beginning me on a labor journey? So I could be a worker? I mean, under what ideology? Under what belief system? Did we even give birth to the system. And we forgot

Greg Voisen
that chat, but we haven't had that chat. Because the system, I'm sitting here looking at two degrees of masters that's on my wall over here, and a bachelor's degree. And my high school diploma isn't up. But he each time, it's a piece of paper that says you've accomplished something, because the system created this these diplomas to say, oh, you can get a better job if you have that diploma, or you can do whatever. I personally haven't found that the diplomas were what created my future. Right? What created my future for me was me. My ability to learn on my own, and my insatiable desire to continue learning. Thus, podcasting, right. So, you know, I love it, talk about our learning. Because we gotta unlearn those diplomas to actually check the box in your salon that says, we're going to reform the educational system?

Seth Goldenberg
Well, I think it has a lot to do with these ideas of the legacy narratives, right? We all around us, there are messages and frameworks and models that were born into. Yeah, money exists us as a capitalistic society. These are the religions. This is the town, this is your family. I mean, we are born into a variety of constraints that were decided by people before we got here. That is absolutely right. And for me, I think unlearning is about and I love that you opened by talking about critical thinking. Right? I thought that was quite beautiful to bring the discussion right there. I think we don't do enough thinking about thinking, a kind of a level of self-awareness and collective awareness of, well, where did these ideas come from? They just came from mere mortals who were here a little earlier. This Yeah, I saw this great quote, once is that history is peer pressure from dead people. And but there's also these beautiful, you know, I think it was Benjamin Franklin, who talked about, you know, we are all a part of the next revolution, right? Every generation needs a revolution to upgrade the rule and the model of society that works in context to now so I think unlearning is about deprogramming the legacies and inheritance that maybe doesn't work in context anymore. I mean, when we said earlier, how might we see those appending indicators? Is and that you talked about that messy part that the kind of those birthing pains of a society through an OS upgrade? Imagine unlearning racism in this country? Is Black Lives Matter and the protests and the events over the past two to three years? Are they an isolated event or part of a narrative arc? That's a part of that operating system reboot? Right.

Greg Voisen
Well, I left that going on. That's been going on since well, since the dawn of time, but it's in our air you're in mind Ever since we've been brought up the 60s, you know, absolutely. So, you know, the thing that I would say, though, is based on kind of the learning unlearning dialogue we've been having is in, in this society, in particular western industrialized society seems to be very, again, the term I'm going to use, you're probably not gonna like it. But I think we've created more lemmings than we've ever created in our life. As a result of the structural the norms, the beliefs that we run with, in our own mind, and very little questioning about whether or not that's where I want to be. Now, we did have a great rising here with COVID. We had, you know, everybody's saying the great resignation, resigning from the job, and I can't find people to work in these jobs, I can't blah, whatever it might be. From a good standpoint, they're questioning something very deep. And I think in a lot of people's cases, very spiritual. It is a question about my life and how I'm going to women. I mean, a very simple question that maybe you never even asked prior to COVID because so many people die. So it's your finitude? Oh, yeah. Well, if the My biggest fear is death, and that's what awoke me to questioning. Right. And usually, in spiritual cases, it does, you know, somebody has a near death experience, because I do a lot of shows on spirituality. That's it. But I mean, it's the day that was just my comment. Yeah, this, I think this, you speak in your book?

Seth Goldenberg
Do you mind if I reply? No,

Greg Voisen
no, go ahead. I'd love to, you know, have a dialogue about you.

Seth Goldenberg
Know, just, just because I think it's so important, what you're saying. So I didn't want us to move too fast from because I think you're really getting to something critical. I mean, my version of your lemmings comment is the opening chapter to build a case for radical curiosity, the kind of sound the alarm is, I believe that curiosity is an endangered species. Yeah, I believe that we are not asking enough questions. And we are too easily comforted by the auto pilot of how the world has been set for us. And that's a dangerous place to be. And I think it leads to some very real damage that we're seeing in the world, whether it be climate, whether it be a capital riot attack. I mean, these are not accidental. These are expressions of the absence of inquiry, the absence of questioning and curiosity. I think, what you're what you're also adding there, you know, and your second part, which I think is I mean, you're like speaking my language, brother, right? Yeah. I just think, you know, it's an extraordinary time. And it's like, I want to scream from the top of the hills. What are we doing, we have so much potential, so much beauty so much wonder. And we're squandering it right. And so technical

Greg Voisen
curiosity, though, in my estimation, and I hopefully you can connect the dots here if you would. But when people get comfortable, and they're not uncomfortable, okay? When they just get so comfortable. And you live in such an affluent society, where you've got everything. You have the time to ponder and ask those questions. The thought would be, are you or are you squandering your time doing things that are not advancing your learning? Okay. And I think there's many places in this world where there's a lot of discomfort right now. Okay. We can look at Ukraine, we can look at Russia, we can look at all these other places, Sudan burn, lots of discomfort. And we live in a society in particular, puking you and me, and probably three quarters of the population in the United States, relatively comfortable, which is what the uprising outside has been saying for a long time. You guys are too damn comfortable. Right. Anyway, without me going to go I don't want to go on this on that because I got another great question for you. But go ahead. You want to call it

Seth Goldenberg
you're raising it so well. One of the ideas so the book at the at the conclusion of the book, I try and take these whispering general generous stories that you know, as a good book, as you described, through these kind of vignettes, I distill those vignettes into what I call 28, building blocks for radical curiosity. One of those is something I think you're hitting on is what I call question inequity. So we know about economic inequity, and that kind of disparaging rate of value, and the kind of human rights and conditions that are coming from that globally, and particularly here in the United States. But I think one of the ways I'm trying to flip that is say, well, questioning and curiosity may have become a kind of luxury good, to your point. Who has the power to be asking the questions? Who sets the agenda? Do I even if I'm trying to just survive in an economic condition? Just to make it through the day? Do I even have the luxury of having the imagination to set curiosity as a kind of guiding Northstar in my life, or in my work that itself is rare air? So I'm here in totally an inequity that goes far beyond economics, but the rights and the responsibility for the capacity to QUESTION

Greg Voisen
Well, what I like about what you're doing in your salons, the idea of salons is every race, every ethnicity, every economic people with depravity and people with lots of money can come into a salon. Right. And it's through that diversity that you're going to actually find the best questions asked. And I think that's the state you're creating now. Yes, yes. Okay. You know, you speak in your book about one of the rarest pleasures, which was taking a walk with Maurice Sendak, the gentleman legendary author of where the wild things are. And actually when I focused on that, and I saw how he was so Curt in the way he answered some of those questions. I realized I didn't have a disdain for him at all. I was just kind of like, wow, this guy is just really abrupt. It's like, that is the way it is. Don't question it. Where are you? You know, questioning it? What did you learn about storytelling, and how can stories become catalysts for Regenerative learning? Hmm. Sounded like a real interesting dude.

Seth Goldenberg
Yeah, I mean, I think I like many millions of Americans grew up with him as Yeah, I know, the nighttime ritual, right? Yeah. And it was it was a rare pleasure because he was an icon for me. I saw him at the end of his life. He has a kind of, it's not just the abruptness, I'm able to say and confirm from first person spirit. There's a kind of very beautiful curmudgeon Enos

Greg Voisen
that said he was a curmudgeon. Yeah,

Seth Goldenberg
absolutely. But the most, the most sincere and the most rare eyes to see the world. And I think, you know, I use him in the book as an example to talk about the power of stories and how storytelling and the way that narrative has become a such a critical way to organize our lives, we think about ourselves, our families, our careers, even the order of time that there's a narrative arc, it really has kind of in camouflage seeped into every facet of our lives. And it helped me understand this notion of legacy narratives and new challenger narratives as a way to kind of see sociologically about how ideas change and they move through the world. And so I think when I use this word, regenerative, I mean, we're talking a lot about regenerative agriculture right now. Regenerative ecosystems, and I think generative or regenerative storytelling or near question, learning, it's, there's a way in which stories can revive and alive in our sensibilities and bring that OS us alive? Right. And I think he's a master at that. But what was fascinating is, as those of us who know that book well, he left space for us to complete the story ourselves. I think great stories are not a sideline, passive sport. You are, as a reader, completing the narrative, you are a participant and actor in the story, I actual quantity of words, and where the wild things are. It's like less than 100 words. And between the poetic of the sentence, and the beauty of his illustration, and the mind of both the reader and the listener, we can complete that world, we can complete the story. And I think regenerative is really about the invitation to participate. And co-author, what comes next?

Greg Voisen
Well, you're activating imagination, you know, kids that would read that book, or the parents would read it to them, you activate that imagination, and I think that's kind of what you're talking about. And I, I remember, I'm gonna make a comment here, just to comment. I not that long ago, had Rebecca cost on here, social biologists, who wrote watchman's rattle. And she wrote another book on the verge. And I said, you know, if we have all this analytics and data these days, it can tell us and predict the future and global warming and everything that's going on. And I said, why is it that as a species, we wait so long to take action to do anything. And she paused for a minute. And she said, because as a species, evolutionary, we really haven't evolved that much. That's the way we're born. You know, it kind of, you know, the fight or flight kind of situation I'm talking about, it's really interesting, good example, because you're proposing something that's actually activating something, to get people to go into a salon, where they might, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait until, like you said, a global warming? Is it a complete place to devastate the whole globe? And we're Oh, my God, no, we've got to do something about it. You know, I always thought that that interview for me brought out in me, it's like, Holy Christ, you've been around as a species for 1000s of years, why the hell haven't we been able to do all this limbic system that's in here that just keeps firing back the same way? Now, you state the participation is a prerequisite for the democratic conversation is the key indicator for health of the public sphere. How can we compel government to evolve along with the values and needs of citizenry? And what new designs could be introduced to bring a culture of curiosity to government? Oh, boy, this is a juicy question. Because I don't know when government's ever gonna change. And I think everybody out here keeps looking at it and saying, where are the leaders?

Seth Goldenberg
Absolutely, absolutely. Well, I think, you know, what, what's special about democracy, as you suggest, is it is a participatory process, not unlike this regenerative storytelling idea. And so it's interesting that, like, think about a presidential election, and how we line up on stage, the leaders who propose solutions, they propose, go to my website, you'll see I have a health care plan all laid out. It does this it does that does that. Now I'm a solutionist. Like the best of them. But actually, I'd love to see the day where a leader proposes a process not an answer, huh? Wait, so you have all Oh, on your website, you have the answer for education. Climate, so oh, so we're eradicating curiosity. There's nothing new to figure out. I as a citizen, I'm just supposed to choose which solution is the right one,

Greg Voisen
or no, I'm supposed to put my faith in you. Because you've given me the solution. And now I can just go to sleep. Well, that's, oh, you're gonna do this, you're gonna do that and the world is going to be wet better for the rest of our lives. And so, okay, I can Giuliana.

Seth Goldenberg
I would love to see a presidential candidate who stands up and says, you know what? I don't know, the right answer to health care. But I don't think there's one. And I think what I would do as president is to create dozens and dozens of grand experiments and bring people together who have experience and expertise and passion for the future and begin a portfolio of many experiments to innovate and fine, what is right for our nation at this moment in history. And let's make an error. I mean, I think of the JFK New Frontier era, we didn't know the answer is, this is how you get to the moon. We said, we're gonna go to this destination, and the project is the process of getting there. Yeah. Now,

Greg Voisen
what you're saying is what needs to happen. The question is what needs to happen to have that happen? I think you need to get more politicians in your salons?

Seth Goldenberg
Yeah. I think yeah, I mean, I mean, look, I was I write a little bit about and I was a big fan of Andrew Yang, just as a real outlier example of a presidential candidate. I, you know, I had a little bit of a personal relationship with him. And I was a big supporter of just shaking up and introducing unexpected ideas. And yeah, look, I think, to your point, you know, it's not a fatality of woe government is over. I do agree with the question Where Have All the leaders gone? But I think what we probably need is, leaders from unexpected places. What I loved about Andrew is, he was an entrepreneur, not a lifetime government leader. And I think bringing people in from other sectors that have not been career government, or political operatives, or, or elected officials can really mix up and remix almost like a hip hop, you know, remix album, like, what would it look like, if I love to see Jose Andres, the chef become Brazil, the United States? You know, I mean, obviously, you know, he's not from the United States is from Spain. But I mean, it'd be really fascinating to understand the social entrepreneur, and the other kinds of qualities that we probably need now that are actually exhibited in other domains that government, but government would be well to embrace.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, we'd bring some interesting perspective to the table regarding these potential solutions, or even testing solutions. Now, I loved your little part of the book, you stated the greatest threat to curiosity, extension of dialogue, exactly what you and I are doing, you speak about the pop song 2016. We don't talk anymore. And I didn't go to YouTube to go look at the song. But I do get that it's have 2.5 billion views. You stay there, we're losing our ability to converse, to exchange ideas to find common ground. If you would speak with the listeners out there about some of the recent evidence of this inability to dialogue and antidotes for this problem. You already mentioned Black Lives Matter. You've already mentioned, you know, the debacle with the environment, you know, the co2 emissions and global warming. There's many of these problems. But the question is, well, what are the anecdotes?

Seth Goldenberg
Well, I think that we don't talk anymore module chapter, if you will. It's really about the art of dialogue, less than these kind of big world conflicts or projects or events. But they're they are the sources of what how do we converse and cooperate to deal with them? To your point, right. I think it's kind of very basic and very human and very, almost more accessible than say that the scale of climate or race, it's just like, how do we how do we sit at a table? Yeah. And, and be with one another? And, you know, I think it's interesting, right? There's, there's a lot of evidence of that to your question of the inability I mean, I mean, even the idea that there's almost like an entirely new lexicons about, you know, about gaslighting and about these kind of the chaos of fake news. I mean, there's like new devices. Also, literally addictive social devices. There are all kinds of interesting variables that seem to be undermining our bill. Just be with one another and hear one another. And actually, it's interesting because you've mentioned the salon several times. But one of the unique and most important characteristics of a salon is they're essentially unscripted. It's not a conference where you have a sage on stage, as I like to say, right, literally almost set up like a three day dinner party. And it's fascinating because some people feel very uncomfortable in the absence of that structure that they're used to when it's unscripted. When we say, look, here's a question. And we'd like you to take a full day to explore it, and to not have the distractions or the interventions or the channels, that we usually navigate those that are kind of like mediating devices, it makes us a little more naked, a little more, you know, intimate with one another. And it's fascinating to see what leaders thrive and what leaders flourish in that and where people need to kind of find their footing. So we've been kind of doing this experiment about how to set the conditions for people to hear one another and just revive that art of conversation. And it's fascinating, you know,

Greg Voisen
well, I think that they, they're uncomfortable number one, too, when they come into an environment like that, usually, because that's not what they've experienced. That hasn't been what the norms are, that isn't one set. Two, I remember doing this work at many places where we, we had just a talking stick, and we would pass the talking stick around and follow the Native American kind of philosophy about that event. We go into Levi Strauss, and we were handling, and we were handing the stick around. There's got a Minnesota that Rhonda ran those salons and he's still doing them. I'm going to introduce you all right. Okay, cool. Yeah. But I agree with you, you know, just to have that dialogue, to have that interaction and not be distracted by a device or look up an answer on the device, oh, I can Google that. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna go. See what Google has to say about that, I think is really, really important work that you're doing. And I want to tell my listeners, you know, Seth books here, go get it. Just go get it, read it. It's a great, it's a great book, go to his website, curiosity and company. You're just typing curiosity and company, and it's gonna come up. It's a wonderful website, you're gonna learn more about him. You're gonna learn more about the book, you can learn more about what he's doing and in salons. One last question. I found this book is one of the most thought provoking books I've reviewed in quite some time. It provides guidelines and ways to shift our thinking, and our worldviews if people take it and use it. What advice would you like to leave the listeners with that they can apply to their work in their personal life, that would transform their levels of curiosity, to become radically curious.

Seth Goldenberg
What a juicy way to conclude, I love that we're giving each other you know, I think it's a term we probably we spoke about indirectly, but maybe didn't even use the specific word. But I think that asking questions, and really stepping into a radical curiosity is about reclaiming power. And it's almost like the more optimistic flip of your lemmings model and my endangered species concern, which is that don't give up don't sign off, folks. Right? It's not the matrix. Meet, we have an extraordinary amount of power to grab the reins of our lives, and the work that we do, and construct wildly beautiful meaning. And without questions, we resign that power. And so for me the kind of call to action and the thing that I would do is I would remind we that questioning is a form of power.

Greg Voisen
Oh, certainly, not only that, a form of freedom. Because it liberates you in having a feeling not so much of knowing even if it's of not knowing. But it's the fact that you took the time to question right now. And as you said, you're a solutionist. I saw heard that one of the things well, okay, so you're going to take the pieces, put them together any designer does to come up with a solution. You're a designer, artists do the same things I wrote, I wrote a book on intuition, you're gonna listen to intuition. And you're going to either respond or ignore it. But the key is, it's fundamentally going to excite your intuition. It's going to help you get in touch greater with that in a greater way and in a way to listen to it. And then most importantly, take action on it. Believe in it. Seth, it's been just an honor and pleasure to have you on the show. I could have stayed on and asked a lot more. I skipped three or four of the questions, but only because of timing. I totally appreciate what you're doing. I wish you all the best let's stay in touch.

Seth Goldenberg
Oh, thank you so much for your kindness I love..

Greg Voisen
Namaste to you and to everybody there at Curiosity & Co. to keep up the work. I'm going to have to come and into a salon. I would love to do that.

Seth Goldenberg
We'd love to have you a delight.

Greg Voisen
Thanks Seth.

powered by

Joining me for this podcast is business growth advisor, investor and author of From 6 To 7 Figures: The Proven Playbook To Get More Traction, Free Up 20 Hours Per Week, And Scale Past $1M In Revenue! – Austin Netzley.

Austin is also the Founder and CEO of 2X. They help 6-and 7-figure entrepreneurs turn their business into a consistent, fast-growing machine that thrives without them. In fact, in less than three years, Austin and 2X have helped private clients generate over $255 Million in revenue by implementing the proven Machine Methodology, 2X’s complete system on how to run and grow a business.

With this success, Austin has now outlined the key steps and strategies in his book From 6 To 7 Figures which had its first edition entitled From 6 to 7 Figures: Simplify Your Business, Gain Your Time Back, Scale Faster Than Ever. This book is even tagged as “The playbook entrepreneurs NEED.” and is designed to sit on your desk and be your go-to resource when you need solutions to get more traction, time and growth.

If you want to know more about Austin, you may click here to visit his website. You may also access here his company website.

I hope you enjoy my engaging interview with Austin Netzley. Happy listening!

THE BOOK

From 6 to 7 Figures will help you to:

  1. Install a million-dollar mindset and create a vivid vision that gives you crystal clear clarity.
  2. Craft your 7-Figure growth strategy to help you dominate the market using the 2X Model ONE™ Framework.
  3. Fire yourself from the day-to-day in your business so you can become the CEO your business needs.
  4. Turn your business into a machine that doesn’t rely on a single person, so everything is consistent, repeatable, and scalable.
  5. Create effective hiring and performance systems to build a world-class team that drives continued growth.
  6. Drive industry leading sales conversions with a full sales system.
  7. Fire up your growth engines and attract more ideal customers (and bottom line) to your business!

THE AUTHOR

Austin is a bestselling author and former collegiate athlete who has been featured on many of the world’s largest business websites such as Forbes, Entrepreneur, Inc., Yahoo!, BusinessInsider, ABC, NBC, The Washington Post, and more. As an entrepreneur and advisor, Austin’s mission is to help co-entrepreneurs 2X their business in the next 90 days.

 

You may also refer to the transcripts below for the full transciption (not edited) of the interview.

Greg Voisen
Welcome back to Inside Personal Growth, this is Greg Voisen and the host of Inside Personal Growth. And joining me from Austin, Texas, is Austin Netzley. And Austin, good day to you. How are you?

Austin Netzley
Good day to you. I'm doing amazing, Greg, I'm excited to give some value today. So let's talk about business growth or whatever else you have in mind.

Greg Voisen
All right, well, I see your whiteboard behind you. If we could have your whiteboard, we would. For all my listeners, we're going to be talking about from six to seven figures. He's got the book up there as well, I have it. And the subtitle is the proven playbook to get more traction free up 20 hours a week, and scale past 1 million in revenue. So Austin, great book, by the way. And for any entrepreneur that's making their living, I don't really care how it is. But especially if you're making it out on the internet. This is a great book for you. But it's a good book for anybody. And it is so well done and laid out. So my compliments to you because it's not like sitting down and reading a big, long book, it's an opportunity to actually has some graphs and some charts and some thoughts and ideas. And really well laid out the way you did it. But I'm gonna let the listeners know a little bit about you. There's two ways you can reach Austin, Austin netsuite.com is one we'll have a link to that. And the other is to x.co elite business coaching both sites, you can find the book, you can sign up for the coaching, you can get more information from Austin, you can email them from there. Austin is an author, investor and Business Growth advisor. He's the founder and CEO of 2x, which I just mentioned, a company specializes in helping six and seven figure entrepreneurs implement the systems and strategies needed to get free from the day to day operations, turn their businesses into a machine and smart growth faster and better. In the last three years to access help clients generate over 255 million and counting well in the 2x coaching programs. He's the former colleague at He's a former collegiate athlete and bestselling author who's been featured many of the world's largest business websites such as Forbes, entrepreneur, Yahoo, Business Insider, ABC, NBC and the Washington Post and more. And for more information about Austin, you can just go to 2x dot c o as we said, well, Austin, you know you, you start the book out. But really on your website, I happen to notice this chart where you compared and contrasted yourself when you are 22 years old to when you're 27 years old. And it was only five years that separated the differences in your success. In other words, from 22 to 25. And that's still very young. Can you tell our listeners a little about your story? And in your estimation, what shifted for you during those five years where you were barely making it to somebody who was really making it and had a six figure income at that point,

Austin Netzley
huh? Yep. I started out as in my career as an engineer, and I went to school to become an engineer, I had this big vision to work up the corporate ladder, and I started down that path. But it came out and I started the real world, much like many people do after college with a big load of debt. And I started in the corporate world, and I, I really enjoyed the company that I was working for. And I was growing a lot learning a lot. But then I realized, you know what, that's not like, it's not my long term path. That's not where I want to be in the future. And then my whole world was flipped upside down. And at that point in time, I was, you know, a clear that that was not the direction that I wanted to go, I was deep in debt. And I was, you know, partying a lot, I didn't have my health in place and a lot of other things. And then all of a sudden, what I did, is in a role transition, I moved to a new boss and I wanted to like, like, hit the ground running and start to go into as a sales role at the time. And my boss at the time, he said often slow down, go and read these three books, because he wanted me to like build the relationship with the clients and like not just get in there straight, trying to grow sales. He wanted me to like really take my time. And he said, Go read these three books. And this was the first time outside of school that I had read. And they weren't business books. They were just like, you know, fiction books and different things. But this like, taught me about reading and then from there, I went to the library, got my library card and I started devouring every book I could on money, the mindset, entrepreneurship, which this is the first time I started to learn about entrepreneurship, personal growth and development. And I just went down this this journey and I realized again, what entrepreneurship wasn't Is this tool one vehicle that I could create whatever I could, like wanted to create, I could have unlimited upside, I could make a big impact, I could design around my interest, all these different things. So my whole world shifted from the ages like 22 to 24. And then I sold it was possible. And then I went down that path and started to make it happen. And in that time, that five year period, as you mentioned, I went from being deep in debt to having zero debt to having a bunch of money in the bank to having financial freedom. And we're had passive income coming in, that was bigger than my expenses, and really being in the power position and being clear on like, what my purpose was what my future was. And I feel like so many 20 Somethings, and even some people go into 30s are much longer trying to figure that out. I was like, What's my path? What's my purpose, and I was able to do that by really jumping into personal development in a big way, getting my health, health back. Getting financial freedom, and these are really important things. But combine that with the career focused, now I was ready to go and do some things and have some fun along the way.

Greg Voisen
Well, you said you worked for somebody else. And then you ended up being an entrepreneur and frequently that step from working for somebody to being an entrepreneur. there for some of the listeners out there listening right now, there might be a big trepidation and fear. What was one of the things that you were able to do to overcome what fear or trepidation you might have had with kind of this secure job where it was a paycheck coming in, versus you taking this step into being an entrepreneur, let's face it, you all you focus on is entrepreneurs.

Austin Netzley
Yeah. For me, I started making really good money on the side more money with my side business while still working full time. So that ramp up of starting on the side, and failing a ton was a really great thing to do. It meant more work. Because I had a full time job and a business I was trying to start and build up. But like, that gave me time and a big safety net. But even in that time, I started making a lot of money on the side for my business. But every time I thought about quitting, my heart would just beat out of my chest like I was so afraid of doing that, even though again, I was making a lot of money, I was making more money on the side. And what finally shifted for me is when I joined a community, so as soon as that because I felt like I was just like doing this on my own. I was reading books, and I was like learning online and stuff. But I didn't have a community, I didn't have that support system in place. And a lot of my friends and things like I couldn't relate to them in that case. So I found a community it was a paid community of other people that were in the same journey, many that were going through the same things or had been through the same things that I was, so I felt like I wasn't alone. And as soon as I had that, I had so much confidence, and I decided to finally quit at that point in time. So and then the funny thing is, I was scared. Like I mentioned, for literally almost two years that I was scared of quitting, when I finally told my managers and mentors, hey, I'm going off on my own. Every single one of them was so supportive of me, they were so excited for me. And I was like what I literally stressed about this moment for almost two years. And here they're like, so excited for me, like I would have been way faster. I had I know that by joining that community gave me the confidence to make that next step. Well, I

Greg Voisen
think you mentioned in it is about the community and having support from all these various structures, especially so you don't feel alone. You know, they say being a CEO is it's a lonely at the top. And that's true, you know, I've had five or six different startups in my career. And I know how challenging it can be and how stressful it can be. You know, in in the introduction, you state that there's a formula for business success. And there's a very important order to things to get the most traction possible. Speak with the audience, if you would about business success. And as you say, the simpler and better path to scale, because everybody's looking to scale. And I know it's about systems. And frequently what's happening Austin is your life is moving so fast. And you know, really, when you're a startup, it's you and then maybe it's an assistant, and then maybe it's another person and you know, many of the people listening can relate to that maybe they've got three or four employees, maybe they have 20 employees, but they may not have broken out yet to this, what I would say larger, you know, in excess of 100 employees. And to get those systems in place as you grow. It's really important talk about how somebody small can scale

Austin Netzley
it up. It's so important to nail the order because you've got limited time you got limited resources. And frankly, there's a lot to do so it's a general three step process that we work every single client through this doesn't matter if a client's that $5 million $2 million 500k or 200k per year to get to the next level. This is what you need to be thinking about first and foremost is we've got to make sure that you got to elite strategy and foundation so are you really clear on who you're serving what you're selling them Do you have true product market fit. So this starts with elite strategy and foundation. The second major bucket is operational excellence with do you have the proper systems numbers and team in place so that you can execute efficiently and effectively. And then from there, you can achieve exponential growth. And this is where we're focusing on new levers, the new products and, and really stacking multiple marketing channels on top of each other. But most people are trying to, they just think that like leads, I see more leads, and everything's going to be solved. But they're not really clear on exactly who they're serving and what the pain point is. So they don't have a really good strategy or product market fit, or they're starting to hire people without a business that's actually really profitable, because they don't know their numbers, or they're starting to, again, drive growth and like Ron put their profits into paid advertising. And they don't have an irresistible offer in place so that they're not going to convert at a problem. So we've got to work on things in the right order to make it as easy as possible. And if you start to work on this order, so you've got an elite strategy, you're really clear. And your team's really clear on who you're serving. And what you're going to do to get to the next level, you've simplified things down, you've got more time, so that then you can go and execute. And as you're executing, you're putting systems in place so that you can hand things off and your team can start doing them. So now you've got consistency for see a marketing and sales for client delivery, you can just start to really build your business to the next level so that it's growing with consistency and control. And that's what you want to do. So many people are looking for this overnight growth, but like that's a, that's a short term game that will keep you on the hamster wheel, we've got to escape that once and for all by turning your business into a machine. So elite strategy, operational excellence, and then starting drive exponential growth levers. And if you do it in that order, that's how you're going to truly get that long term growth and success that we see our clients getting.

Greg Voisen
So whether somebody's selling something on the internet, or they're providing a service outside to the world, whether it be housekeeping, whatever it might be, you know, one of the things that's always stressed in kind of consulting is that gross margin. You know, many business owners don't know their margins, they don't you know, the words, they're, they're not pricing their products properly, or services, because the cost to deliver is actually greater than that. So their net margin is so small, and they sit there and they work like crazy for years. And they see that they're paying all their employees, and they're buying their products, and they're paying for all their advertising. In the end, the net margin isn't very much for them. What would you advise somebody sitting there today, and they're looking at the bottom line, and they're going the net, after all the taxes and everything else was worse than if I just went ahead and went to work for another company.

Austin Netzley
It's crazy how high that percentage is that people that can make more money going or working a full time job for somebody else than they do in their own business, and they're so talented to be able to? To not have that be the reality? So the question that we ask our clients, if there's one number in your business, that if you doubled, it would change everything else, like instantly, people think, Oh, I just wish I had doubled the number of leads or doubled the number of sales or like alright, so if we didn't change anything else, and you double the number of leads that you have you doubled the number of clients that you have to manage you double the number of projects. And as a result, you have more team members, if you can do that, or if we keep everything else the same, we've got the same number of leads the same number of sales, the same number of clients that you're working with, but you double your profit margins, and you're at the same result, which one do you want? Where they're like, oh, I would definitely want the second one. And we're like, yes, the best lever to grow to the next level is starting with your profits. And if we can produce more cash flow by being operationally excellent, as I talked about, so before, right strategy and operational excellence, those are actually the keys to growth, everybody wants to go to the growth, but the growth is a result. It's not the thing that you go to straight, first and foremost. So by increasing that profit margin is the smartest way to grow your business. And by doing so, now you've got the cash flow that you can decide. And you can have optionality as an entrepreneur, which few entrepreneurs up so you can decide, hey, do I take a step back from the business and like have it just be producing cash and like I'm focused on family or yourself? Do you continue to grow that to the next level and are more willing to take a lot of the profits and reinvest it back into grow even faster and add more team members or whatever it is needed?

Greg Voisen
So you know what I've done in my consulting as I realized that these people would work really, really hard. And like I said earlier in the previous question, they're literally just like, going, wow, why am I doing this? Because I'm paying for more people. Yes, I'm getting more done. And I think what you just focused on was so important, Austin, to actually get it so that the gross margin for the business is high enough so that the net margin is something that makes sense, right. And if you put on more salespeople, you get more sales. If you put on more salespeople, you also create more complication, if your margins are big enough, right? In other words, the cost of putting those people in there. Now you include a free toolkit of resources in the book to help some people with their strategies and actions. Can you let the listeners know more about these resources? And how they can access this free toolkit? I know you've got two websites, you've gotten your personal website, and then you've got the 2x. Elite website? Yes. What are some of those tools? And how can they access them?

Austin Netzley
Yeah, as I talked about, in the book, from six to seven figures that you mentioned, it's not about ideas, like I don't need to give you a bunch of ideas. It's about implementation. And what we decided to do with a book is actually give people tools and templates to be able to take what's in the book and actually get it into their business. And we've got some of those available for free, and it's at two x.co/toolkit. Again, it's to x.co/toolkit. But inside, you'll see things such as, like a role scorecard that you can use with every single person on your team to get them clear on what their role is what's expected of them. And having that clarity as a team member helps them drive a lot more results if we expect our team to know exactly what they need to be doing. And, and what's how they're going to be measured. And we ended the month we're like, man, it would be easier and faster. If I just did it myself, well, no, we need to give them that clarity. The role scorecard makes it really easy to do. There are other things such as a team assessment in there other things related to time and in our XDS process, which is about freeing up at least 10 to 20 hours a week. And you can do that in one day, like and free up a lot of time. So there's several tools that will help take it from theory to here's actually how to implement it so that you can free up time, inject more cash and money into your business and start to drive much more consistency and predictability.

Greg Voisen
I'm just curious along the way, you know, I'm sitting here listening to you and how much did I mean, you know, you look at you. And you look at Tim Ferriss, and you go, hey, Austin is, you know, like, operating pretty much like Tim Ferriss did you actually, like, consolidate Many of his ideas, and then put it into this? Or were these all just kind of Austin's ideas?

Austin Netzley
It's a great question. Um, so I read The Four Hour Workweek back early in my time as an entrepreneur, and I was like, you know what, this, this really isn't resonating for me. He's talking about virtual assistants and these other things. And it just didn't fully resonate. And then I realized a few years later, as I was traveling around the world, and living a true Four Hour Workweek, I was like, oh, my gosh, 10 planted so many of these ideas in me years ago, and then I live that out. But so long story short, I took different ideas over time, you know, I'm sure, you know, major people like Tim Francis, or Tim Ferriss had a big impact on that and planted those seeds. But the way that we teach business is from an engineering approach. So that's where I take most of it is from an engineering approach of, hey, what do we see from a high level? What are the systems processes? What are the numbers? How do we approach this step by step? How do we solve you know, the root cause or bottleneck and address that? So it's more of an engineering approach than anything, but there's so much that I've taken over time from the greats such as Tim Ferriss,

Greg Voisen
I really like what you do, you know, in this systems, obviously, you speak about KPIs key performance indicators, and you also speak about the lifetime value of clients. And we're gonna get into that because that lifetime value of clients things when you get it, you really realize how much that elevates the value of your business, meaning on the balance sheet, because if you looked at the balance sheet, and you looked at your customer list, if you really retain clients versus trying to go out and get more clients, it's critical. And in your chapter, the million dollar mindset and vision you state that there is a proven formula to move from six to seven figure income. What are the nine elements and why is it it's so why is mindset so important? Because for you, that's the first thing that changed when you moved from 22 years old to 27 years. Hold that five year period of time was really your mindset?

Austin Netzley
Absolutely. Mindset is so important because it encompasses everything it starts, like the first question that we ask entrepreneurs is like, where do you want to go? What success? What's your vision, and if we don't have the proper mindset, then we're not thinking big enough are clear enough on exactly what that is. And as a result, we can't make any business decisions. But every single step along the way, you're going to have to make decisions, you're gonna have to grow personally, you're gonna have to grow as a leader, you're gonna have to communicate all this comes back to the mindset, if we've got major things that are holding our mindset back, maybe major limiting beliefs and things, then it's going to hold back our decision making our team our ability to let go. So it really encompasses everything. So it starts and ends with the mindset because it impacts every area of business. But what we also say is like related to that, it's like your business will never far exceed where your mindset is that and where you're at as a leader. So to grow to the next level, you've got to grow, and you've got to learn, and you've got to be able to take feedback and unlock those things that have maybe held you back in the past. For me, I had such a big problem of letting go and delegating and actually empowering other people, I had, you know, a lot of opportunities from a leadership standpoint and had a lot of opportunities from a money standpoint and thinking about investing into the business. So if you can get through those, it makes every part of business much, much easier. And that just ripples on down to the entire team.

Greg Voisen
Now just list if you would those nine elements that are associated with that movement, because we, we talked about it? Well, you've talked about mindset, but Jim talked about the other one

Austin Netzley
starts with vision. So what's the vision? Like? Where do you want to go from there, we need the proper strategy that helps you achieve that vision and the simplest and most direct path. So we could talk about the million dollar question is like, what's the simplest and most direct path? Whether you're trying to achieve your big vision, or double the number of leads or double your profit margins? Or whatever? The question is, it's what's the simplest and most direct path to make that happen. So we got the vision, we got the strategy from there, we need to execute. So execution is a part of everything. Numbers, meaning cash. And KPIs are a part of everything. We've got systems, team, marketing, sales, and then mindset surrounds that all. So these are the nine different areas, that one by one, we need to get clear on these and improve them. And if you do, they start to grow exponentially, so that you've got a multimillion dollar business that can run and thrive without you.

Greg Voisen
And the good thing about this book, and he will send this book to you for free, by the way, so we'll go sign up the website, it really does have everything we're talking about in it. And it's so easy to understand, this is not a challenge. This is easy. I'm gonna encourage everybody to get the book. Now, we all know, businesses focus on vision, mission, values, purpose, we hear this you see it sometimes written on the wall, but you don't always see it being lived, imbibed with inside the culture, meaning people are like, I'm drunk with it, right? I really believe it. You state that business vision is your big picture guide. It's the North Star. For the company, your vision is the destination. And the thing that will get you fired up and keep pushing through the hard times. In your estimation, how can we help leaders who are out there listening right now define their business vision? And why does it have to be so clear and compelling? I mean, it sounds obvious. But I know there's lots of people out there that wake up every morning, and they're really going to work in their business without a vision. pay the bills. Yeah.

Austin Netzley
Yeah, you have to go back to why did you start in business to begin with? Right? Like, what's that? What's that, like? What's the real purpose and people start in business to, you know, achieve some level of wealth to make an impact to grow and learn to have control of their own destiny. But then we lose that luster over time, because we get lost in the day to day that we're just going to work to pay the bills, like you said, that's not a life fully live. And that's, that's as an entrepreneur, but also think about your team, your team, if you want to get to where you want to go and do so as effectively as easy as possible. You need amazing people around you. And amazing people don't want to go and just, you know, work for a paycheck, they want to go be a part of something. So you need a vision that you're going towards, you need a compelling reason why like, why does it matter? What's the purpose? What's the mission? What's the what's the impact that that's going to make, whether it doesn't matter if you're you know, selling tires, or you know, doing some type of home service, if you're doing coaching like we are, you can still make get be impact for me, a bigger purpose. And then from there, it's about instilling that in your culture in the way that you can do that as have core values. Use the core values we use. We have we use Slack for internal communication online. We've got a team all over the world every single day, we're sharing different core values shout out so hey, somebody really, really represented, you know, focus speed, they took this project and they started in, it's already almost done in the first 10 days. And this is a two month project. So we're shouting out that particular core value. Every single team meeting that we have, we're talking about our core values, we're talking about the purpose and the vision and the mission. We just had a team meeting this morning, like we do every Monday morning. And we talked about the vision and mission and direction. And like, we just keep instilling this so that everybody's clear on where we're going and rowing in the same direction. And everybody that we have on the team is involved in getting there and make that personal success for them. And as a result, one plus one plus one plus one equals 20, you know, as you build up your team, and but you need that otherwise, people aren't working towards any mission, they aren't working with any purpose, and they aren't working in the same direction. And as a result, you know, you'll find a lot of inefficiency in that work. Well, I

Greg Voisen
get the reinforcement is there, you know, and I remember an interview, I've done several with Dr. Jim lar, but his biggest book ever was the power of full engagement. And, you know, what I'm alluding to here for the entrepreneur, the founder, and the key management team, is how do you help to keep these individuals engaged, we know that the levels of engagement in corporations today there's a new book out by Marcus Buckingham Love Plus work, that the power, the engagement levels have gone down so low, we're looking at somewhere in the 30% level. So that means somebody is really working for you, supposedly 40 hours a week is really only working maybe 20 hours a week, because they're not engaged. What would you say about keeping the energy levels? You know, it really, to me, it's the management of our energy, because it gets so displaced to get so fragmented, goes all over the place. And by the time you're done, you're like, tired? And you're, you're just kind of exhausted, what are you? Would you advise an entrepreneur today, to keep fully engaged, keep his team fully engaged and keep their energy high?

Austin Netzley
Amazing question, it comes back to having a vision of where you're going as a company, finding people who have a vision that cross the second do the same exact vision, but it's going to be a vision that crosses over with that, so that they can see that they are accomplishing their goals by helping the company accomplish their so there's that vision crossover, as we talked about. And then the second is that you're regularly communicating and supporting them to remove and help them make their job easier to help get there. So for instance, every single company that we work with, we really instill a culture of systems so that we can get things done more consistently and effectively and easy, right. And if we're doing that, then their job is easier, they have less headaches and stress, we're helping them remove and teaching them how to remove themselves, the bottlenecks that they have, and getting done what they need to get done. So they're getting more done, they're learning a lot, they're removing a lot of the inefficiencies in admin work that they don't like doing, and they're able to spend their time and on the work that they want to do. And that's helping the company and everybody's winning. So we've got a lot of things here that lead to big momentum personally, and as a company and a players want to be a part of something, they want to be a winning. And you're being able to do that by doing those couple of things. So really instilling that, that culture of systems and operational excellence, finding people that are aligned with the vision, like those two things combined, can lead to some really cool momentum. And then, you know, from there, you're winning and like, people don't get tired if they're not working on things that they don't like to and they're winning as a company. And that's a great thing to do. Well, I

Greg Voisen
think you know, when you get somebody who's curious about something, and that's usually where it starts, and then they find a purpose, and then they add goals to that purpose. And I'm actually referring to a talk that I did with Steven Kotler on these are extreme athletes. No, you'll start out, most people are curious, most entrepreneurs are curious. And then they will go from curiosity to really wanting to define this purpose on life, what is it that I really want to do? What is my NorthStar, as you said, and then from that, once you've got that you can define those goals. And then you can define those proximal goals. And then your 2x strategies speak about model one, can you speak with our listeners about the five pillars that will move the listeners from the six figure to the seven figure CEO, because you've got this this model one, and this is something that you teach?

Austin Netzley
Yeah, this is one of the most important frameworks that we have. And what it does is help you get really clear on who you serve, how you serve them in the most simple and effective way that's set up to scale. So the five elements are you selling the right people, the right products at the right price with the right positioning in a way that can scale? Are you selling the right people the right products at the right price with the right positioning in a way that can scale? So a lot of business owners are selling to a broad audience like they're going too wide with who they serve, and as a result, it's really unclear of like, what is the exact to act pain point, what's the exact situation? What's the exact terminology and communication that you can have to attract them. So if we aren't clear on who we're serving all the other questions that businesses are going to be really challenging from their leads into the right products, we want to have a couple of different products, a lot of people have too many different products, they're not irresistible offers, they're not working in tandem together to really maximize customer value. They're not built, you know, in a way that can scale yada, yada. So we've got to work through these one by one to make sure that they're improved and better and simpler and more strategic. And if we do that, you're gonna get way more traction and less time, that's going to lead to, you know, better team output, that's gonna lead to a lot more cash flow and profit margins. And then again, from there, now you've got the other pieces that we've talked about to combine to grow to the next level, but it really starts with that model, one framework.

Greg Voisen
I like what you said about, you know, there's a lot of people that it's train expand product lines and more product lines. And it elicited inside of me yesterday morning, I was watching CBS Sunday Morning, and they had the founder who inherited the company Birkenstock? Well, we all know Birkenstocks, right. But the reality is, is that Birkenstock is really one simple sand. And the demand has grown so big now that they can't even keep more than a 10 day supply. But when you think about it's like, literally, it's just so singularly focused. And they don't have a lot of products, they do have other companies that license with them. We just one way you can grow, you can license, right? You can say, Okay, I'm gonna license this idea to this guy or this day, but I don't want to get involved in all the complexity associated with anything else. And I agree with you that the lifetime value that we were talking about a little bit earlier, but customer is really one of the most critical areas, can you speak with the listeners about how to attract and retain customers so that they can optimize the lifetime value of that customer? And I'm going to add to the end of that. And so those customers become, as Ken Blanchard would say, raving fans,

Austin Netzley
yeah. So we talked about one of the like, what's the one number that you can change and changes everything else in your business. The first one is profit margin. The second one is we love LTV, because with the same number of leads the same number of sales if you just make your hat clients happier, and as a result, keep them longer or offer them more products, or change your model to keep them again more over time, you're going to dramatically change your business and your profit margin. So just by changing LTV, and your profit margins, you're gonna be able to effectively 4x 6x 8x or more your cash flow in your business which is pretty special, like a lot of our clients do. So the way that you can do this is several things a is starts with our model and framework of getting clear on who you serve. Because the more clear on who you serve, and the more targeted that is, the more duplicatable and repeatable you can make your fulfillment. So if you serve a lot of different people or a broad audience, it's hard to make really duplicatable. fulfillment that is, again, getting the same results left and right. But if you've got one specific type of person that you're working with, it's pretty much copy and paste and you're working through the same process, it makes it a lot easier, and a lot happier clients and a lot more consistent results, which again, leads to them staying longer buying more and referring other people your way. And that's we’re really healthy business starts are you profitable? And are you making raving fans because raving fans again, will be worth a lot more and they'll send you the best leads that you can have, which is hot referrals.

Greg Voisen
You're so right. You know, I got an email the other day from and I don't know if you remember this name, but many people listening will remember Michael Gerber. You know, Gerber was huge with trying to systemize businesses. And Michael is 86 now and he lives in a town right next to me, and he says let's get together for lunch. He's been on the show a couple of times. And everything that you were speaking about, just so much kind of reminds me about the systemization of what Gerber used to talk about. He used to tell small business owners, this is what you've got to do. You got to create systems, you got to save processes. It's got to be repeatable, it has to be consistent. And that formula hasn't changed. But one of the things that is changed is the way we use and leverage our time. I just did an interview with Richie Norton on anti-time management. It's really your reference to the world and how your perspective is regarding time you state that 80% of our time should be spent on our high impact activities. Speak with the listeners about the XDS system, and how this will help them focus their valuable time because we're all given the same amount of time. It's the degree in which we accomplish and if there's any one true formula and all of these four formulas. It's really how effectively are you using this time?

Austin Netzley
Yeah, right. Yeah. And you know, one way to do that is with our XDS system, as you just mentioned. So X stands for cut, like the first, the best way that you can free up time is to cut things out. Now, the reality is, most of what we're spending our time on as entrepreneurs oftentimes, is not really driving the result, right. It's like very scary to think about what's the impact of most of the things that we're working on, like you can spend, you can look at your week, if you're working 50 hour work week, you can look at your week and probably 35 are not really solving the problems in the proper way are really setting you up for long term success, or they're very short term focus. So what we want to do is first and foremost, cut out or paused and push for later, what is not a part of the 8020, that's going to make the biggest impact. The second is to delegate things on down things should be delegated on down to the lowest possible a person in your company. So oftentimes, we start our business and we're doing everything. And overtime, it's hard to delegate, but like the more that you want to scale, the more that you want to delegate and get things off your plate. And third is S which is systemize. And this will help things be much more consistent, predictable, via a much more efficient so that you can handle a lot more and set your team up for success if you want to delegate that on down. So cut delegate and systemize. If you really review your time and detail and go through every granular task and you look at what can be cut, it's not essential, what can be delegated and what can be systemized, you're gonna be able to find, hey, maybe 60% or 80% of what you're doing in the next three months can be cut delegated or systemized. And a lot of that can be done in the next 24 hours. That as a result, you free up 1020, maybe 30 hours a week or more. We've had a lot of clients free up so many hours by doing this process and working through it and combining it again with the operational excellence and other things that I've been talking about. But if you can free up time, and work on the business and see your business in the new view, we talked about Gerber he talks about working on the business, not in it time is that big thing that shifts your business to be able to really be scalable at that point time we call it the tipping point is when you get freed from the weeds.

Greg Voisen
And I think if you take a step back a little more frequently, and whether you're looking at your day, and the way in which you've organized your daytime blocking whatever it is that you might be using to actually what you think make yourself more effective. Interesting. The breakthroughs that occur is when you shift the lens of your perspective completely about how you're utilizing time. And then time actually, as Richie Norton says, it's about you, you talk about two axing it can be quantum, there can be a quantum change seriously almost like quantum physics, because we always think of everything is very physical. This can actually move to a complete new horizon for everybody. And I encourage them to listen to that podcast now. Austin, you speak about tracking key performance indicators. Every business person who's an entrepreneur has heard about a KPI. What are some of the KPIs that a business owner should be tracking effectively and consistently? Now, I know, this really doesn't change from business to business. I mean, if you're selling something to somebody, whether it's a service or a product, these KPIs really are pretty consistent.

Austin Netzley
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So you need to be tracking something related to cash, you need to really know what your cash position is definitely related to profit. And most businesses don't know their true profit margins. And they do it just really once a year for taxes. But you also want to be looking at other metrics, such as what we talked about LTV, really important number and that one number, if you can increase the lifetime value of your customer, that will just lead to a lot more profits, cashflow and ability to grow if your customer. So let's say right now, you've got an agency and your average customer is worth $2,000. By implementing systems by being more strategic on how you can serve them by adding, you know, potentially more products. Let's say that you double that to $4,000, that client is going to allow you to spend a lot more money in marketing to acquire more customers in the future. Right. So it really begins with the LTV, but you do want to look at some other marketing metrics, just don't look at the ones that are not really driving the results that you want a lot of people we're looking at followers for clicks or these views on different things where it was we really want to look at who's the what's the main action that we want, maybe it's applications and it's got to be qualified application. So we've really got to break down your business, from marketing, to sales, to fulfillment to finance with what's the top one to three metrics for each one of those track those every single week and you'll start to see what the trends are. And then from there, your goal is to do to be really strategic and add in the operations piece so that it's consistent and predictable, and then you're free from it. So that's consistent, predictable without you, and then you want it to be consistent, predictable and growing without you. And that's where you get into the power position. Now, if we do this, well, we're increasing the number of leads, we're really strong from a sales conversion standpoint, it's not reliant on you, you've got happy customers that you're producing at scale without you, and you're producing profit, like now you're in a power position to be again, top 1% of entrepreneur in business.

Greg Voisen
You've covered a lot during this interview. And most business owners would tell you today, Austin, that one of the things that eats up their time is meetings. And you have to keep the business meetings running smoothly. Can you speak with the listeners about meetings, recommendations, time blocks, and what should be on their calendars? Because I know, you know, you just said this morning, you got up, you had this big meeting, you talked about the vision and mission of your company, you had people joining you on zoom from all over the world, because that's how you run your company. What, what kind of meeting structure would you recommend? Because I know people feel like they're meeting doubt. And then when they walk out, they don't think like anything's gotten done.

Austin Netzley
Yeah, oh, my gosh, we see this day in and day out. Most people either don't have meetings, don't have consistent meetings, or don't have effective meetings. So what we want to do is, first and foremost, keep them really simple. So you need some type of weekly tactical meeting as far as like, what's the plan for the week? What are you going to be working on? What's everybody need? You need some type of daily huddle that communicates Hey, what do you work on yesterday? What are you working on today? What's in your way, and just making sure that the team can pulse really well, because if you don't have this, then everybody's distracting each other. And like asking questions, you want to have everybody bring their questions to this short little meeting, so that during that time, they can be productive and effective and not be distracted with all these questions. So you want everybody to be productive. So a weekly tactical combined with the daily huddle, combined with a review of that, where your problem solving, what did we learn? What do we need to problem solve, and like really lead with some problem solving, those three things from a weekly standpoint are really, really, really going to set your business up to just pulse and get better every single week, you so you got a clear plan, you're executing that plan and removing the hurdles in your way. And then you're reflecting and learning and problem solving. And if you do this over and over again, you're in a really good spot. And then you combine that with some strategic thinking time alone, as the leader of your company, this is a really important time block that you're gonna have every single week to think about, hey, what's the biggest problem or what's one big question and really going in deep, thinking deep into that don't like most entrepreneurs get lost in the day to day, and they're not thinking really strategically. But if you can do that, you're gonna save hours and hours and hours of time. So that's a great habit to get into. And then from there, let's take a step back and make sure on a quarterly basis, you're really going deep, and you're making a high level really clear plan and making sure that it all folds up your company's like, all aligned towards that on a monthly basis, you're going deeper into the financials and really reflecting so you want to get into this daily, weekly, monthly quarterly rhythm where your team is just pulsing and pulsing and pulsing and learning. And as a result. And I should say, with the meetings being super effective use of time that gets everybody super clear. So they can execute outside of those meetings most effectively and focus and not be distracting each other because we might company even like we used to distract each other all day. And I was like, why aren't you guys getting anything done? I was distracting them. But then we started to put in better meeting agendas, so that we brought all the questions and agendas and clarity to the meetings so that we could pulse in the way that I'm talking about.

Greg Voisen
You know, I can see the engineering you that comes out there in those meetings. So that's really well said. And, you know, systems are also very clear as part of it. And Martin and Martin Austin has really put it compacted all of this into this book, everything we've said now, of the two websites of the listeners that are listening right now and they're going well, I'm like ready to talk to Austin, right? I want to go sign up, I want to do something. Where would they go? What do they do? What's your process?

Austin Netzley
Yeah, they need to go to 2x dot code on there, you'll see some great different resources. And if you're interested in talking with our team to break down your business and see what the best growth levers are, then you go to two x.co/ 2x keep it very simple to extract CO slash two weeks and in there, you can get scheduled to call with our teams break down your business. We've also got the book available for free as you mentioned, and that's at Two x.co/book Two x.co/book Put your name and information in there, we'll send you a copy of the book and also the resources that go along with it. So that's a great place to start. And then from there again, you'll see, hey, there's a simpler way to run and grow your business. And then let's get started one step at a time to build that momentum so that you got more time freedom, so that you are producing more profits and cashflow, and then ultimately growing with consistency and control.

Greg Voisen
And what Austin would be the investment that I might make as an entrepreneurs listening today, to go through your programs go through the coaching, so that I can optimize my margins, my profits and feel like I'm doing really well. And I'm now on my way to seven figures, yeah, oh, we

Austin Netzley
have several different options. So it kind of depends. But the general range is, let's call it 3500 bucks a month, plus or minus that it's all one on one hands on in the trenches coaching to help you get free, help you implement things into your business help you get your team taken to the next level. And we've got so many clients that have added, you know, hundreds of 1000s of millions of dollars in revenue, our clients in total have generated over $255 million in revenue, while in our one on one program, let alone the hundreds of things that they generate after they leave our program, because what we want to do is help turn your business into a machine so that you don't need us long term. And that's what the power of the program can really do. So it's all one on one hands on in the trenches coaching that can support them.

Greg Voisen
Well, Austin Netzley, From Six to Seven Figures, definitely go to his website, get the book, then sign up for a console with one of his, I guess coaches learn more about what he's doing, because he's doing great things now to put a ribbon on this and wrap it up. I'm sitting out here now I've listened to you guys for 40 some odd minutes. And you've given lots of advice, Austin, you've given me lots of things to think about, what are three things that I could go implement, like, right away? That would help me, the first

Austin Netzley
Thing that comes to mind is working to simplify. Like, what can you cut out? What's not essential to do right now? Or what's not driving the results? Excuse me that are gonna get you to the next level, where can you simplify, that's the first one. The second one is get the book in and see our free resources on our site so that you can see what's the order of things. Because if you're working out of order, then you're going to feel like things are way harder than they need to be. And our job is to make your life simpler, and much, much easier. So follow the strategic order step by step. And again, that will lead to getting momentum and producing more cash flow that leads to you know, more decisions and things. So there's a very strategic order. And then third is really thinking, how do I get free from the weeds once and for all, because as soon as you get freed from the weeds of the day to day grind, you make better decisions be you have a lot more fun. See, you can ultimately see your business and where to focus, and you've got a much healthier business that can run and grow. And that's what leads you to, you know, having a top 1% type of business. So simplify, follow the strategic order, get free from the weeds, if you do these couple things, you are set up to have some amazing success. And if we can support you in that journey, then that's amazing. We would love to do that. And

Greg Voisen
in all three of those things, I will say help to create clarity. You know, I think, you know, you said one of the most important questions anyone could ask. And it's right at the beginning of the book is what do you really want? And I don't think a lot of people often really know. Yeah, so it really creates a lot of confusion for them.

Austin Netzley
And if we don't know, as the leader of what is our team thing, you know, our teams just running in circles if they don't have that direction. So it's so important,

Greg Voisen
right? And sometimes it takes more deep introspection. So what I will say is, you know, around your purpose and your mission and your values and your vision, if this takes you a week or a month to define, so be it, take it, but make sure that it really resonates with you. And you feel like the energy level that you have. And the energy level that's written on the paper is the same, right? In other words, something you can run with because I think sometimes people will just write them because they gotta get them out. And they have to put them on a piece of paper, but they don't really put the kind of energy and thought into them that really should be required. But Austin, you have been great for my listening audience. Thanks for your time today. Thanks for speaking with us about going from six figure to seven figure and all the systems and procedures that you have again, for my listeners, you go to 2x dot c o to learn more about that. Or you can go to Austin Netzley and we'll have a link to that as well. Thanks.

Austin Netzley
Awesome. Thanks, Greg. Appreciate you very much.

Greg Voisen
Okay.

powered by

My guest for this podcast is the co-founder of Inheriting Wisdom and the author The Quest for Legitimacy: How Children of Prominent Families Discover Their Unique Place in the World – Dr. Jamie Weiner.

Jamie co-founded Inheriting Wisdom with his wife Dr. Carolyn Friend. Inheriting Wisdom is a specialty consulting firm focused on the human issues and concerns that impact high-net-worth families, their businesses and family offices.

Jamie’s training and professional experience as a clinical psychologist lend him a unique insight to understanding the complex dynamics that exist in families, businesses and not-for-profit organizations. Hence, throughout his career, he has designed structured programs and systems to address the broad range of challenges families and individuals face.

He also came up with several books which one of those is The Quest for Legitimacy: How Children of Prominent Families Discover Their Unique Place in the World. This book is an essential read for anyone navigating the complex dynamics of accomplished families and is perfect for members of wealthy and accomplished families, as well as the people who advise them.

If you want to know more about Dr. Jamie and his works, you may click here to visit their company website. You may also learn more about our featured book The Quest for Legitimacy by visiting their website linked here.

I hope you enjoy this engaging interview with Dr. Jamie Weiner. Thanks and happy listening!

THE BOOK

Dr. Jamie uses the findings from his global qualitative research, conducted with the Rising Generation of prominent families from across the World, to explore topics like:

  • Developing your own sense of legitimacy.
  • Identifying your own path whilst recognizing the common phases of The Quest.
  • Understanding the impact that “breaking moments / transition points” will have on your life.

THE AUTHOR

Dr. Jamie Weiner is a clinical psychologist with over 40 years experience. In addition to his work with individuals and families, he successfully designed structured programs and systems to address the broad range of challenges people face, and is credited to delivering over 100 lectures and workshops. He also has a Certificate in Family Business Advising and Family Wealth Advising from the Family Firm Institute and is the co-author of The Legacy Conversation: the missing gem in wealth planning.

 

You may also refer to the transcripts below for the full transciption (not edited) of the interview.

Greg Voisen
Welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. This is Greg Voisen and host of Inside Personal Growth. And, Jamie, for all of my listeners, I've been doing this so long I keep saying that same thing. I think they're like, oh my god voice and saying welcome back again. We're gonna be speaking about the quest for legitimacy. The subtitle is how children of prominent families discover their unique place in the world. And welcome to the show. Dr. Jamie Weiner. Jamie, how are you?

Dr. Jamie Weiner
I'm terrific. Greg, it's great to be here with you.

Greg Voisen
Well, it's great to speak with you because this is an issue, which I think goes under the radar and a lot of cases and you know, these places like family firm Institute, which brings CPAs together and attorneys together and financial planners together and psychologists together to try and solve these issues, which it's a big issue. You're one of the only guys who's done some pretty deep research in this area that I'm aware of. And I that's what's inside this book, plus lots of stories from my listeners, but I'm going to tell the listeners a little bit about you before we get started with a multifaceted background and speaking and coaching and counseling environments ranging from Cook County jail to exclusive global VIP forums, Dr. Jamie Weiner’s expertise in strategic approach to guiding people helping them to develop inheriting wisdoms ability to discern, to transcend any complication within a family dynamic. And that's the key here. Dr. Weiner is a clinical psychologist with over 40 years of experience, in addition has worked with individuals and family. He successfully designed structured programs and systems to address the broad range of challenges people face and is credited to delivering over 100 lectures and workshops. He also has a certificate in the family business advising and family wealth advising from the family firm Institute, and is the co-founder of the legacy conversation, the missing gem and wealth planning. He's a global board member, director of the family firm Institute, you can learn more about Dr. Jamie Weiner, at inheriting wisdom, that's inheriting wisdom.com. And you can learn more about him at the book website, which is quest for legitimacy.com. And we'll have links to both of those. So that you can take a look at that, and a link to Amazon where you can get a copy of the book. So Jamie, after doing the review of the book, I see all these great stories. And I don't know if you change the name to protect the innocent, but you had a lot of people's names use first names inside of there. And they're great stories because they kind of exemplify what goes on. It also kind of tells what's happening inside. Maybe this generations head about what's going on psychologically. And you know, the book is exclusively focused on helping children, children of high powered families, navigate through the maze and find purpose and meaning in their lives. What in your estimation are some of the psychological factors associated with them having issues navigating to a place of happiness, self-worth and fulfillment in their lives?

Dr. Jamie Weiner
So Greg, just a little bit of background, we interviewed 24 Rising Gen family members from around the globe. So Indonesia, Chicago, Costa Rica, we began to find patterns that were similar no matter what was going on culturally, that might have been very different print. And the simplest thing that we found that was fairly use universal, was this feeling of struggling to measure up giving the prominence of the families that they were born into. And it was that struggle that led to a four phase to a path that we discovered that was universal, that involved first going through some self-awareness, finding out who you are, who you're becoming, that a tug of war kind of navigating the outside world of the world's oil do blinded to followed by a period of the exploration we are gaining for the outside world and have something to bring back to taking ownership of your life.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, and you know, you know, all of those issues are covered in the book and we're gonna Get to that, because I'm gonna ask you a question around those as well. And you mentioned that the rising Gen need to be protected against suddenly feeling entitled, you state that this book asks, what is it like for you to grow up in the land of giants, meaning their parents and maybe grandparents and so on? Based on your research? What is it like for the children of families with considerable wealth growing up in that environment? And just, I mean, you profiled many of them, obviously, and many of the issues associated with that. But generally, what, what are, what's it like for them? You know, you talked about feeling of self-worth, you talk about not being enough, you all throughout the book, you're talking about many of these psychological factors, but I'm strictly kind of speaking about the psychological issues.

Dr. Jamie Weiner
Yeah, so um, self-confidence is a universal issue. But for people who grow up in wealthy and prominent families, first of all, they don't grow up with an awareness that, oh, my God, my parents have a lot of money, what's gonna happen with that money, that they do grow up with a sense of at some point, first of all, realizing there's something different about them. So for example, one person in the book grew up in a family, where diamonds were the family trade, and then came home with a bag of diamonds. And she learned to count by counting diamonds, and she went to school and all of a sudden realize, not all kids grow up counting diamonds, all right. You in, you know, it was an awareness, that it was also an awareness that there was something different about the way that she was brought up. In over time, everybody that we interviewed realize that their families had made larger successes, large accomplishments, there was some sense of prominence, some sense to the role in the community that was different than those around them. And a wish and somewhat of a struggle to figure out who they were separate from the world that they were born up into, without divorcing themselves from the world that they were brought, brought up into, eventually trying to find a place in it.

Greg Voisen
You know, I have seen a lot of these families, because I work with them as well, that the challenges that the children face, not like many other families is that the parents are at odds, and there's a divorce, you know, and when families of that magnitude get divorced, it's frequently it's not a real divorce, it's a divorce. But if you don't, I mean, because the amount of wealth, you know, maybe and then another marriage happening on top of that, it kind of complicates it psychologically for the kids, not that other kids don't. But there seems to be something different about when you come from extreme wealth, and there's a divorce in the family. Could you talk about that? Because I know, in some of your cases, I'm sure you ran into that.

Dr. Jamie Weiner
Yeah, you know, one case immediately popped in my head because mom and dad were separated, had been separated for enough years that they might as well have been divorced. They operated in terms of business decisions and financial decisions, as if they were a couple. And I And if the conversation were about those kinds of decisions, you would have had a hard time discerning that in the background, there was a divorce going on. So you can imagine for the rising gender and then family, there was the world of the business that kind of was the center of the universe, where mom and dad appeared to be one. And then there was the world of the family, where dad had one life, and mom had another life. And where they had a relationship to Dad is dad, and mom is mom. And in that particular family, Mom was the translator, too. So there's a whole thing that goes on in the communication pattern in those kinds of families that has most financial implication, but much more for those growing up what if we're all, we're always sort this out.

Greg Voisen
Well, confusion, I would say confusion, because my sense is if you have very strong father figure prominent, and we'll get into that, you know patriarchal kind of situation, and you have daughters and daughters are connected to their daddies, you know. And then there's a divorce like that. It's challenging. Now, it's not that other families don't have this, they do. But when there's this extreme wealth and a family, it's, as you just said, it's a more of a separation, they came back together and did business together. And they're, they're giving kind of a conflicting message to the rising Gen about that. And then you tell a great story of growing up in your own family where your father was a prominent religious figure and a rabbi in your community. And you mentioned that you struggled to find your own sense of legitimacy. What was it like? And how did you ultimately find yourself? In the shadow of such a prominent father, figure and Rabbi, who was in your community, just extremely well known and respected? And here you are, you have a relationship here. And you maybe that's why you got in this business?

Dr. Jamie Weiner
Yeah, they say that about a psychologist says that we get into this business to figure fix their own problems. And I'm not sure that's the case, you're not the case. But you know, if you grow up with a father, like I did, who was a central figure in a community who was created, a synagogue was created camps, has done things. Work with clergy, from all kinds of disciplines, it's pretty hard to feel that anything you do is big enough. They're timeless, I would sort of go out in the world and look for things that would sort of act like would make me feel like I was big enough. Yeah. You know, I grew up in the 60s and 70s, there were plenty of opportunities to find things to do that were just a little bit out there. And so for me, I struggled with the things I did that are a little out there in a pretty solid core that came from the values that ran through my family. And it really took me getting my doctorate took me a long time. A long time to sort out. What do I want to do? Who do I want to be married with? How to integrate this all? So there's one JB, as opposed to different kinds of JBS depending on the situation that I'm not,

Greg Voisen
you know, is interesting, because I have Jewish heritage as well. And that's where I come from. And I was on an interview with a not a young German middle age, very successful. And he was speaking about a story. And it just kind of blew me away. His grandfather was part of what he called the Jewish mafia. I knew nothing about this Jewish mafia, but evidently, it was a pretty tough group of people. Okay. And as it turned out, his father would overlook this young man's I don't want to call it he, he actually one of the one of the people who was watching him, he had an a knife and they were paying a knife fight. And the babysitter, got his finger cut off as a result of it. But the father didn't react at all because He's his father had been so rough on him, that he through the generations, this father was part of the, what he called the Jewish mafia, who beat up people and all kinds of thing. He would not lay a finger on his hand or reprimand this young man. And the story was so distinctive, you know, I recall in my mind, I'm like, wow, this is really compelling when you think about his father saying, oh, it was okay that you cut the babysitter's finger off real deeply you guys were pointing knives, you know? Well, you know, you speak about the break being the first component of the right when we say break kind of breaking out and that it is different in almost every story you cite Rashi and F When hitting a breaking point, and that frequently they find themselves. And this is one of the stories and a disoriented place and displaced. If you could please speak to the listeners about the break, and what your qualitative study of children of giants revealed about making.

Dr. Jamie Weiner
A break. So again, 24 different stories, interviewed twice, there was not a single story that it didn't involve some account of a breaking moment where there was a disruption between some of the expected life to be going in something that would happen, that kind of, you know, changed everything, in that range from somebody pretty early in her life in his life, who grew up in a family where Costa Rica and tennis was a big game, he broke his arm, no longer could be active with the other family in the game. And from that point on, it decided he wanted to do music and surfing and different friends and changed his life. The big story that I tell in the book is Reishi. And Rishi was in college was already entrepreneurial. So, you know, I mean, no, no, I'm just entitled, I'm gonna sit here there was, I'm gonna do my own thing. He went back and helped his family, build the business that manage the 10 businesses father had bought into or started during the course of his lifetime, went back and got his advanced degree, came back. And there was a business that was in trouble. And the family worked for a year left to go see the World Cup, and on his way home, was in Florida, and got an email from dad, basically firing him by email. And it was more than just getting fired. Yeah. You know, I mean, at that point, it was a break in his in the relationship with his Indian father and Canadian mother and he stopped speaking to them for two years. But that's and what's important in the book about that, in the research, is, we think about breaking moments, particularly as the world of psychology is, oh, my God, and what do we have to do as parents? What do we have to do? We've got to help. This is terrible than it happened. And I don't mean to minimize the pain. But that was the moment for most of the people in the study, where they began to sort out who they really wanted to be in what they wanted to do. So it was a moment of growth, even though it didn't come from, or why this is wonderful. I get to grow. It came from having to sort something out and solve problems.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, I think that what happens in a break, no matter what it is, is there many examples of them. But that was a great story, by the way, you know, get an email when your father fires you. Well, he wasn't firing him psychologically. He was telling his son, he was less than, because he didn't show up to do what he was supposed to do. He went and took a break down, and he was goofing off corn in his dad's mind, he was goofing off. And a lot of these cases, there isn't much tolerance for that. You know, that's just the way it is. There seems to be very little tolerance. And I agree with you, there's an epiphany that occurs and an enlightened spot within that moment, call it almost a spiritual awakening to some degree, to say, I need to take a different path here for my own self. I need to I need to love myself. And that, that is kind of what happens. And you know, you stated on the quest for legitimacy to the simple fact that some if not all people get stuck along the way. What are some of the examples of the young adults or rising Gen being stuck and if you would speak about when fear I just I don't know, there's this relationship between fear and trust and this clear myth you talk about affluence. You know, there was a book written many years ago about affluence, and you kind of don't give that book its legitimacy. How maybe I'll say it that way and being a good

Dr. Jamie Weiner
way to say, Greg, why? Why did goodwill even say,

Greg Voisen
Yeah, but that book became very popular, very, very popular. And then you cited that story about the young man in the South who basically got off with murder. And that was you were saying that story. But if you would talk about that fear, trust and the clear myth about affluence, especially in the rising Gen.

Dr. Jamie Weiner
So my experience is pretty diverse, is I think there's this two, I spent a four and a half years working in Cook County Jail. And one particular character Cook County Jail really stood out for me, a group came from a family that if you knew I can tell you the last time you were from Chicago, you would go, Yeah, I know that family. And he had really spent a life inside institutions and inside the jail. And in the world of people in Cook County Jail. Most of them really have issues about trusting other people. At 1.1 of the detainees, I did an exercise with a group of them was supposed to be about trust. And he looked up and they said, are you kidding? I'm never going to trust anybody. And then the group chimed in and what? Absolutely, we're not going to trust anybody either. And so you know, most people kind of assume that trust is a is just part of life that you know, you trust some more than others, but you do to in order to have relationships, you have to trust people. And without that sense of basic trust, it's pretty hard to form relationship is pretty hard to find yourself. And a psychologist, like to talk about narcissism and personality disorders, and blah, blah, blah, and all that kind of stuff. But the simple understanding behind all that it's an injury that's strong enough that you come and go through the rest of the world, believing that the world is dangerous.

Greg Voisen
Most certainly, and especially people that are incarcerated, I think it is that exacerbates the issue is well, so and you were dealing with those type of people in Cook County Jail, which is not the easiest jail around. So yeah, no, I get it. And when it comes to this rising gen of affluent families, I think it's also a similar problem, maybe not to the degree of some of the people that have been incarcerated. But it there's certainly a trust issue, right.

Dr. Jamie Weiner
Certainly trust issue. And then if you mix it mix this with, you see people are extremely successful in a way that you don't think you're ever going to be able to be successful. Then, you know, doing acts that are not the kindest acts to other people behaving in ways that could get you into Cook County Jail. Yeah. begins to help make some sense. There's some logic to it. Not desirable, but there's certainly logic to it.

Greg Voisen
Yeah. Well, I think that the path that people take from generation to generation here, you know, when family wealth gets passed down, you know, they say, very seldom does a business succeed down to more than the third, third generation, right? First generation, second generation third generation, no, ultimately, a lot of those companies get bought up or merged or taken over by somebody else, or whatever happens. But there are some long standing ones where, you know, it's been many generations and that hierarchy is there. And there are huge trust issues. Now, you talked about in the book, the issue of not being enough, and you actually had some quite cute are pictures of some, you know, like old drawings, you talk about a 14 year old who wrote a suicide note stating that he would never be able to live up, I understand that this is an extreme case, which ended with his suicide. But how deeply rooted are these emotions within families of extreme wealth? And what did your research reveal?

Dr. Jamie Weiner
So obviously, I put that that story in the book, because it's the extreme. And, you know, I had spent a number of years working in an adolescent psych unit with a nine month long stays. So most of the adolescents of the program were from affluent, successful families. And it was a poignant example of how strong man's feeling could be. Most of the people in the study, it ended up being pretty successful. And we're not that extreme. But it doesn't mean they didn't, in a very intense way, have that feeling that no matter what they did, they wouldn't be able to be to live up. And, you know, one example of that was Henry Kaiser, his family from the Kaiser Permanente family, who really thought he was raised to take over a significant role in one with one of the wealthiest families in the world. And a much longer story that was about to get married and went to set was set with his grandfather, and they could never even have a conversation about whether that role exist. Are you seen as I've seen, families don't have an easy time giving to their conversation, and don't really talk about what it means to pass things on between generations?

Greg Voisen
No, it's true. And I think one of the issues is, is living up to your word. In these families, now, it happens in all families again, so I'm not just going to target this, but if a father or mother relates to it, a rising Gen. Who may who is working in the business, we have a position for you. And if you prove yourself over a certain period of time, you're gonna get this X piece, I'm citing a particular example. And then at the end of your step, they go, no, right? We changed our mind. For whatever reasons, which breaks the trust, that also puts a, almost like shooting an arrow through their heart. Because it's not just a boss, saying to an employee, it's a father saying to a son or a daughter, you're not enough, I still don't believe you're enough to take this position in the company. And I've seen this happen. And I've seen the fallout of that. And that is one of the points. That's a breaking point. And it's a huge breaking point. And it happens a lot. Where, where they just leave, they say I'm gonna go do my own thing. I don't need you, right. And sometimes they're written out of the will or the trust or whatever it might be, because of this dynamic that has shifted. And Jamie, one of the stories is about Anne, and you stayed that only when she left her father did and realize that she had been on a quest of her entire life kind of on her entire life. Can you tell the listeners about the story of Anne and how this worked out for her and the relationship with her father, because it was what I'm talking about is a pretty good example, actually, what I just met,

Dr. Jamie Weiner
it's a great example. Yeah. And grew up with a grandfather who was extremely successful. And Father was kind of trying to live up to grandfather's success. When you grow up, you're not aware of what your parents are struggling Well, if you're only aware of the world they have. She had attempted very hard to kind of avoid having too much of a relationship with her grandfather. And at one point really got recruited literally by a recruiter to work in dad's business. And which was in an unusual business, the added in order to find himself and gotten into racing cars, she did really well and turn the business around. But her dad and her cannot communicate. And she was part of an organization recommended that she presents her father. A proposal that she would report a couple of times a year, and that she should run the day to day. And instead of that, working out, Graham and her father said to her, give me a job description so I can replace you. Well, what happened for her was, and maybe that was the best thing that ever happened to her. But at the moment, it also really made her realize that she had had difficulties in relationships with men for years, and that it was time to sort out, not just who she wanted to be professionally, which was more like her grandfather, but about how she was going to be able to get into a relationship, and feel a sense of wholeness. And when she did that, she began to figure out how that how they have a little bit of a different relationship with her father. Because I think we all want to have ended up with some relationship with our parents.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, the journey she took was quite interesting. And the way it worked out, you know, it finally came back to having some relationship again, with her father. Now, you mentioned that your research revealed patterns, that you discovered four phases common to all of these quests in because the book is the quest for legitimacy. Can you speak to listeners about self-awareness, tug of war, exploration and care and taking center stage phases associated with this journey, because those are the ones that you point out in the book that are you talked about him a few minutes ago, you don't need to go into depth, but just briefly touch on him. And let's talk about him for a minute, because those are the four phases that you see.

Dr. Jamie Weiner
So the first one is self-awareness. And I would think your listeners as well as anybody else, whether they came from a wealthier, prominent family or not, has some moment in their life where they find that there's something that distinguishes them in their family that makes them feel different, when extreme we had with somebody who grew up in a theme park that had his zoo behind him. So it didn't take him a long time to realize there was something different about his family, the families around him. At some point, we began to go out into the world, and we're exposed to a little bit to the outside world, that now we have what we learned in the world, we were born up and in we have, we're learning in the outside world. And we feel pulled in the two directions, the tug of war between the two. At some point, all of us a little bit more different by culture, going through a period where we come a whole what we were born into inside us. We spend most of our time gaining experience in the outside world. And, and was actually a good example of that, because she had risen in a corporation, she had all kinds of experiences from the outside world that made her valuable back in the family, that she did that individually. And that over time as loss of the sorting period, we're going to begin to, you know, take off and take ownership of our lives. And I'm not just saying ownership of a business or not ownership of a business, but some sense that we're in command work and we have agency we're controlling decisions in our lives.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, a very, very good point you make. And in chapter eight or you book you speak about women on the quest, and that these stories are meant to challenge how we view gender roles, and storied families. Again, this is around the patriarchy, especially families, steeped in parent patriarch and many of these wealthy families are just that. And how do women get a seat at the table and become heard and families that are dominated with patriarch as a baby

Dr. Jamie Weiner
Check. So I was born before I wrote the chapter, not to just say that women are the, you know, Chief emotional officer in the family, right? And is that sort of traditionally what we think. So what I did in that chapter is there's three different stories with three different women. The one that always stands out for me was a woman who was raised, knowing that her grandfather said, if anybody is if there's ever a woman in the boardroom, and she's going to be serving tea, and you can imagine, it's her first day on the board room. And she's an asked serving tea, and she's a board member. And she just had a baby two weeks ago, and he has to ask the board, can I take an hour to go breastfeed my baby? One of the people from the family offices, can't you hire somebody to do that?

Greg Voisen
Great moment, not quite work.

Dr. Jamie Weiner
You can see that for women, she ended up being the first one up on the shears in the business to work in the business to take a role in the board. It's for women, it's a very multi dynamic challenge, to be able to figure out, do I have kids don't have kids? What's my role in the world? And I let the stories tell the message?

Greg Voisen
Well, I'm gonna let my listeners know that quest for legitimacy is a great book, if you're a family, dealing with wealth, it might even be a great book for you, even if you're not extremely wealthy, but just a little bit wealthy. And you see these challenges because we have so much affluence in this society today. And you're not the book is filled with great stories we've talked about and Rashi, and all this, and that helped the reader better understand how to navigate the quest for legitimacy. What are a few of the takeaways for the readers that you would like to emphasize and better understand this quest for legitimacy? I mean, we talked about the, you know, kind of stages. But what would you say if you were to sum up this whole thing and put it in a ribbon around it and go, this is why this is something you could take away from this.

Dr. Jamie Weiner
So I got my ribbon out. You know, the one thing that most universally, I'd like to wrap it around? Yeah, everybody we interviewed, they were the only ones going through this.

Greg Voisen
Ah, that's a good point, right? Very

Dr. Jamie Weiner
lonely and isolated. And if you're in a moment where you feel lonely and isolated, this book will remind you that you're not alone. This is kind of a, you know, universal experience. We're in the middle of developing some programs to help rising Gen, kind of really get that and be able to rate relate to each other and go through the quest together. That's kind of the kind of the starting point. And then if you understand there's a path.

Greg Voisen
So you're starting group therapy for wealthy people.

Dr. Jamie Weiner
No, I'm not calling? Yes.

Greg Voisen
Well, I just did that as a pun, because normally, they're not going to be so willing to share their stories with other people. But I commend you for you're building a community around this because that is exactly what they need. And the truth is, they are alone, many times I know, because they don't have this openness, many times are willingness to share the stories. That's why they feel that they are alone. And so and the other thing is, I would say you use the word fear in the book, there's a sense of fear that if they break out and talk to somebody about it, that there could be some repercussions because they're very, I'm just gonna say secretive. And secretive would kind of be the word it's, you know, hush, hush, you don't talk about this. This isn't something we do. But for all of us who are listening now, we're dealing with an issue. Dr. Jamie Weiner is your resource. You can find him at inheriting wisdom.com or the quest for legitimacy.com. That's the book site. We're going to put a link to both of those. And we'll put a link to the book on Amazon, as well. Jamie, it's been an honor having you on and a pleasure speaking about something that's very complicated, has to be navigated carefully and people sometimes wonder, you know, why should I get a navigator psychologists like yourself. And the reason you should, is because it's going to keep peace in the family and save. A lot of people have the pain and suffering that they could go through if they're willing to speak with somebody like yourself and navigate through that. So thank you for all the work that you do. Thanks for being on inside personal growth and sharing the message and the wisdom from your quest for legitimacy.

Dr. Jamie Weiner
Thanks, Greg. It's been a delight.

Greg Voisen
You take care.

powered by

Joining me for this podcast is a passionate facilitator and nicknamed “The Doctor of First Resort” by the Physician of the Year at Kaiser Permanente – Dr. Brian Alman.

Dr. Brian was initially nicknamed “The Doctor of Last Resort” by the Physician of the Year at Kaiser Permanente — the world’s largest non-profit healthcare provider. Then he was later referred to as “The Doctor of First Resort” because of successes with patients who had been unsuccessful for decades.

His mission is to improve mental health and wellness across the globe with our effective, accessible, and engaging educational content. True to this mission, Dr. Brian has helped hundreds of thousands of people and contributed to making the world a better place. Thus, he is widely considered one of the world’s leading stress reduction experts.

Dr. Brian has also came up with several books relevant to his mission. One of those is Less Stress Now: A Mindfulness Manual for the Modern World. This book offers easy-to-use techniques to relieve its readers’ stress and related burdens, enabling you to have a happier, healthier, and more fulfilling life. It’s a compilation of the best practices that have worked for his patients over his thirty-year counseling career.

If you’re interested and want to know more about Dr. Brian and his amazing works, please click here to visit his website.

I hope you enjoy this engaging interview with Dr. Brian Alman. Thanks and happy listening!

THE BOOK

Less Stress Now offers easy-to-use techniques to relieve your stress and related burdens, enabling you to have a happier, healthier, and more fulfilling life. It is a compilation of the best practices that have worked for Dr. Brian’s patients over his thirty-year counseling career.

Less Stress Now techniques have been formulated through his own experience as a patient and therapist, inspired by global teachers, and refined by his studies of meditation, mindfulness, self-hypnosis, guided imagery, visualization, NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming), and many other methods of self-help and mind-body healing.

THE AUTHOR

Nicknamed the “Doctor of First Resort”, Dr. Brian Alman is widely considered one of the world’s leading mind-body stress experts. He has helped thousands of people heal from trauma, reduce stress, and lose weight.

Dr. Alman has the rare ability to lead and consult with genuine care and wisdom. He inspires audiences worldwide through lectures, media appearances, training workshops, mobile technologies, online programs and books. And of course, he is renowned for his signature private sessions that are best experienced on the beach!!

 

You may also refer to the transcripts below for the full transciption (not edited) of the interview.

Greg Voisen
Hey, hey, welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. This is Greg Voisen and the host of Inside Personal Growth. And I have a good friend who lives here locally in San Diego, Dr. Brian Alman. He's been on Inside Personal Growth before. And he has three books that I know. Is that right, Brian? This is 14 books total 14. Okay, so three new ones. But when you go to the website, you'll see these three new ones.

Dr. Brian Alman
Yes.

Greg Voisen
And if you would, please can you hold up the book that we're going to be talking about today? It's called Less Stress Now. There you go. He got it really nice and close. Brian is a very, very good friend and just a genuinely well versed person about stress. And I'm gonna let my listeners know a tad bit about you. So they get an idea of just how well versed you are. He's a PhD as stress care down to a science as he says his mission is to make the world a happier and healthier place driven by clinical outcomes accessible to anyone. He's a passionate facilitator, who collaborates with people and companies globally and locally. He utilizes past present and future as well as conscious, subconscious and unconscious are unique and effective approach has allowed him to help people help themselves more than ever before in the fields of weight loss, stress reduction, healing and health care. He was nicknamed “The Doctor of Last Resort” by the physicians of the year at Kaiser Permanente, the world's largest nonprofit health care provider. And he has later referred to as the “Doctor of First Resort” because of the successes that he's had with his past patients over the decades. Welcome to the show, Brian, it's great to have you back again. It's always great having you on because you've always got something great and new bubbling up that you can help people with. And less stress now is one of those books. Why were you compelled? Because you wrote one, you wrote a book also, for young adults, you know, kids, right? And you know, this world is such a kind of confused place these days. We're living in pretty stressful times. Not that that our predecessors in time going back, you know, 1500 years, 2000 years didn't have their own stresses. They died earlier, but we're living longer. And we're having to deal with stress. And I think much more of a greater magnitude. Why did you write the book? What do you hope people are going to get from this book. And for my listeners, I want them to know we're going to offer Brian's course, which is evidence based by Kaiser by ACE AC E. It's a course for 497. And we're going to give you half off, and there's going to be a link in our blog to that as well. So I wanted to let the listeners know that we'll say that a couple of times. So you're online.

Dr. Brian Alman
Thank you, Greg. Well, it's great to be here. You everybody needs to know that I love Greg voice in a long time and to always been positive, inspiring. Just a wonderful human being and I happen to know Greg's family, I love them as well. So this is a real love fest here. Yeah, there we go. Yeah, yeah. So I was compelled to write the book less stress now, because being part of the ACE Study, which stands for adverse childhood experiences at Kaiser Permanente in San Diego, which is the largest study ever completed the most comprehensive study on mental health, emotional health, bio psychosocial health, and is over 6000 medical journal articles in over 100 countries. So even though it started off with 10s of 1000s people in Kaiser now millions of people have answered what were 10 Ace questions, which are in the book less stress now, which all your listeners will get a copy of. There are now 12 questions we had an 11th and 12 question. But I was compelled because we discovered with 10s of 1000s of people up over two decades, and I was doing the treatment solutions with Dr. Phil Edie, the CO principal investigator, we worked with physicians, therapists, coaches, families, patients, kids, teens, grown up size kids. And the biggest discovery was that our biggest challenges in life really come from our upbringings, how we're raised to either cope and not cope, to drink or to smoke, to do drugs or to escape in some way to deal with things more effectively in the discovery besides really, that the biggest challenge is do come from our families, which I know all of you know, because you have families, we all have families, none of us have perfect families. And the challenge that we go through his kids birth to 18, stay with us for years and decades. In fact, in a study, we discovered people lose 19 years of life, like they die 19 years younger, if they don't deal with their adverse childhood experiences, and just do the coping skills that most people do.

Greg Voisen
Well, you were in that same study not to interrupt you, yes, this is important to my listeners, you know, Kaiser did one of the biggest studies at the same time ace, and it goes along with the stress around weight reduction, you had some very, very, very heavy people who were addicted to drugs. Now to talk about it. That's

Dr. Brian Alman
how it started. Greg, right. That's how it all started is we started to interview the people who were very successful in losing the weight in our program, a very comprehensive program for weight loss. And then the people who were the most successful, tended to be the same people to gain the weight back, and or more. And so we were perplexed how people could do so well, and then not be able to sustain their success. So we started asking, and having interviews and having groups, and what we discovered was that the life experience as kids is what contributed to them being overweight and obese. And we found that the propensity of for example, abuse in the family was much higher than we ever expected, close to 70%, for the women in the group, close to 35% for the men in the group. And then when we started to discover that all of the participants, not just in the weight group, which was the break breakthrough for us, but in all of the other departments at Kaiser, our early childhood experiences, influence our health, and our longevity. And so, the point I really want to make to Greg besides Okay, so there's where most of our problems come from. And we need to figure out ways to solve those problems, because most of us just kind of live them out and kind of keep coping to the best of our abilities.

Greg Voisen
Well, let's talk about that a little bit. Yes, external stressors, right? That that we can talk about, there's obviously internal stressors, you know, the whole flight, fight flight syndrome that people have talked about for years. But you know, this mammalian brain that we all have, that we've had been built in for years. It's, it's not as it hasn't evolved. Social biologists will tell you, this brain has not evolved over the hundreds of 1000s of years that it should have, right? And we kind of wait too long, a lot of times, we don't take action. And here's the point, you know, I am somebody who had anxiety attacks like crazy. And that is stress. It's stress manifested in a different way. And you're one person that knows just so well, how having this stress can affect our behavior. Okay, it affects it in so many ways. We get angry, we pop off at somebody, we basically, you know, drive our cars is road rage out. There are all kinds of things happening. In my case, I got so debilitated I wouldn't go on an elevator, we'd go out to lunch, I wouldn't go to people. I'm talking about my personal story, because the only way that I actually got help was I went to scripts and they put electrodes on my head and I saw what was going on in the brainwaves of my head. And I started meditation. And the thing that happened when I started meditation, Brian was a miracle. I tell my listeners this all the time. It's like, okay, Brian is going to talk to you about meditation and he's going to tell you how good it can be if you're a regular practice or have it so Tom Talk about anxiety, because we live in a world that just seems so filled with it. It's moms, you know, trying to run to the grocery store and take care of the kids and do whatever. And we know that right? And it's Dad's gone, run it off to work. And now we have this great resignation. Everyone's saying, because of COVID. I'm rethinking how I live my life. How would you tell people to rethink and change their current behaviors, such that those behaviors reduce the stress and anxiety in their life? Okay,

Dr. Brian Alman
the first question that I asked people in the book and the course, is at what age? Did you first start to feel anxious, because whether it's stress, or anxiety, or fears, or phobias, or depression, or whatever the problem is even pain, emotional pain, conflict, lack of self-esteem, at what age? When did you gain weight? Why is that age? What was happening at that age, when the anxiety first started, the fears, the weight gain, the depression, what was happening in your life at that age, when it first started? That's the most important question, and then follow it up with why then why not two years early? Why

Dr. Brian Alman
not two years later? What was happening? And how did you cope with it, then chances are,

Dr. Brian Alman
you're still coping with it, or not coping with it the exact same ways. So that's the number one question is at what age? Did it first start? And what was happening? And why then?

Greg Voisen
And trying to find that and see what event in your life? Yes, potentially affected. You? You know, and I know, we can go here. And I'd like to go here, actually. Because, you know, as a species, we have a tendency, you know, we've all have an ego, it's whether or not we can control the ego. The ego is there as a protector, as you know, and good cases. But frequently, what it does is it really kind of amps people up, I'm not enough, I got to do more, there's tons expected, that ego starts talking to you, it's really tough. And then you separate. So what I say you separate. In other words, I'm gonna go into the little spiritual realm here, you were talking about Deepak Chopra a few minutes ago, endorsing your programs. And you know, there is a spiritual side of this. And that is, and I know you're coming from the scientific side, but you're also an extremely spiritual guy. And the reality is, when we do separate, the ego separates us to not knowing who we really are. Right, not knowing from a soul standpoint, who we are as a person, because my show is about personal growth, wellness, mastery, and spirituality. I want to kind of get to that. Because when you recognize that, and as soon as you separate or the ego helps you separate, that's when you have tons of stress. Isn't that true? Well, a lot of times,

Dr. Brian Alman
you're very I agree with everything you're saying, here’s what I would say, because I live in this world, every day and helping so many people that have been stuck for so many years and decades not gotten better. They had been great teachers, for me that everybody does have an ego. You're 100% Correct, Greg, okay. The ego tends to want to protect us, but it tends to over protect us. It guards us, but it over guards us. So it actually has job security, because it is so relentless, and trying to make sure we look good and making sure that people think we're okay. And we think they think we're okay. It's really an overprotective part of us. Yes, it has the insecurity of wanting to be seen better than we really are. But it's a part of all of us how we say to people, it has a lifetime membership. So don't try Yeah,

Greg Voisen
exactly. That's a good one, lifetime members.

Dr. Brian Alman
And your point about meditation, you know, you know, I was invited to India to teach meditators to go deeper into meditation, who had been meditating for 50 6070 years, far longer than May. And I had the opportunity to go to ashram after ashram and learn from meditators. Basically, the takeaway is, and you're right, added, Greg, is we want to learn how to be meditative. How to be 100% present connecting in the moment while we have an ego. Oh, no, don't do that. You want to look good. That's not that important. But what about business? How are you going to make money from this? All of that, okay, thank you ego. You're very helpful. I know what you're thinking you think the same thing over and over again. And then we are all emotionally driven. So we have an emotional driver, but I want to be loved, or I don't feel good about this, or I don't know about this. So am I enough I feel helpful, helpless, confident, not confident. So our emotions are driving. They're not rational, they're irrational. They're all emotional. Our egos are very rational, very logical, and they never agree with the emotions. So most people, I would say over 90% of people spend their life fighting, debating internally, between what's going on emotionally, and what their ego judge critic logical perfectionist is saying, now here comes meditation, here comes being meditative. It transcends all of that, while all of that is taking place, because you're not getting rid of that, that's the rings of the tree to you are the meditation being meditative. Thank you overly logical, overly critical, never shut up. Pardon me, thank you emotions, my sensitive child inside that feels has so much empathy. And from this place that we want to be having become dominant, is meditative, being meditative in our lives. And we want our egos lifetime membership, and our emotions, also lifetime membership, to become no one dominant. So ever present, always welcome. Never want to try to stop them that'll take years or decades where when you listen and understand, give them their floor, they've done in minutes, and you can get back to your presence of mind you're loving, unconditionally accepting in the moment, true, authentic you. So it's sort of a 123. And this is really what we learned in the ACE study. This is what the people taught us. Because I see people all the time, Greg, get better, so much faster than they thought they would, not through tricks or techniques or anything, by getting to the underlying issues in ways that are healing and healthy and positive. And everybody has an inner doctor, everybody has the inner wisdom, everybody is smarter than they think. And so my work is simply helping people facilitate their own best answers their own inner doctor, their own inner wisdom that I know is always there, because I've been with people that have been stuck for 7080 years and get unstuck very quickly. But it's with respect to the deep emotional issues with respect to the ego trip issues and be able to be who they are as a whole person and integrated person, not a technique driven or I can just do this or I can just do that. Like there's an on off switch to wellness and happiness. Now it's more of a dimmer like make progress, make progress, incremental progress. Oh, wow. Now my inner wisdom is dominant to my emotions in ego and non-dominant. Well, that only took you 70 years to figure out 40 years to figure out, but there's no time like now and you live super well. That's

Greg Voisen
why last dress now and I think one of the things that you've been a huge advocate of and anybody is, what brings you back to center is your breath. Right. And during this little exercise, you did deep breathing a couple, three, four times, right. And we all know that before we react, if we actually breathe, the choice will be different. In other words, if we bring breath in and think about it, you know, a lot of times people say well take a deep breath before you actually take that action or make that action. And I know from being in a practice, which is pretty deep that, you know, every one of the chakra is going down the body with deep breathing can have a huge impact on you making that connection. And I'm gonna go to the nonscientific now to a higher source, to a source, which is calming, and that's where it wants you to be in it. And in it for anybody who does meditation, which is probably 80% of the people that listen to the show. They recognize in the morning and the evening, depending on how often they practice that when they're done. The rest of their day actually goes so much better. Meaning you approach every problem and every opportunity differently, much more methodically, much more focused, much more concentrated, so to speak with us about the breathing techniques, how we can access that, how we can get to that altered state of consciousness and let me let me add to this. Because when we do that, you talked about the conscious and the subconscious in the superconscious. The subconscious mind is something that literally is gotta be reprogrammed, right? That's where this is happening. So speak with us about that as well.

Dr. Brian Alman
Okay. All right. Well, here's one,

Greg Voisen
I throw a lot out. Yeah, that's fine. That's,

Dr. Brian Alman
I'm used to it. Okay. One thing I can say for sure to really support, what you're saying, Greg, with your own inner wisdom, is that I teach people this all the time. And I can promise that this is true. You can breathe your way through anything.

Greg Voisen
Anything.

Dr. Brian Alman
I have been in the worst situations that I could ever imagine, I was able to breathe my way through anything. I've been with people who have learned to deal with the most horrific catastrophic situations, and they can breathe their way through anything. Now what that means is, you need an exact technique that fits you as an individual. Because breathwork having taught and been to dozens of workshops, just on breath work, there is no public path. There is no one size fits all. There's no formula. Some people love the yoga breathing. I certainly do. Some people love the meditation breathing. I certainly do. Some people love the prayer breathing, I certainly do. Some people like the workout exercise, breathing, the walking, breathing, the out in the trees, breathing, the pet your dog breathing, there's so many different techniques, you have to find the one that works best for you. And it's impossible, you won't find at least one because I actually have hundreds of techniques. So it's literally impossible. So that's the first thing is people need to recognize that you can breathe your way through anything, whether it's conscious and emotional, or relationship and money. Whether it's subconscious ego, what am I gonna do? Oh, no, I'm really in a mess now. Or what I call unconscious, which is your inner wisdom, your spontaneous creative unconditionally accepting the true authentic you. So you can breathe away to your unconscious, your inner wisdom, which you refer to as your sort of inner spirituality, your inner guide, all of that connected to an outer guy, you know, however you envision that. So how can you breathe your way through anything, let's get to like an exact technique, that probably will work really well, for the millions of people watching right now.

All right. So there's

Dr. Brian Alman
one step to begin with. And this is a tricky one, because it's so simple is pay attention to your breathing right here right now. And accept your breathing however it is. So if you have a cold really doesn't matter. If you're feeling stressed, really doesn't matter. If you have that nice belly breathing, it's fine to most important is your accepting your breathing as it is, here's the analogy or the metaphor. You're looking at the stars at night. You see the stars to the moon, you see the clouds, you don't try to move the constellations, you don't try to change where the moon is used except the sky as it. That's exactly what you want to do with your breathing. This is step one. This is a standalone step. I'm about to add the real empowering experience but this alone, where you have awareness, whether it's the star as you're breathing, and you are accepting, but I'm going to add a word here. I am conditionally accepting unconditionally accepting of you breathing, deeper cello bigger little nose mouth Okay, so that's step one. Standalone, you can do that all by itself. You don't need anything else. Because when you are unconditionally accepting of your breathing as it is, you're getting a glimpse of what it feels like to be unconditionally accepting of yourself. Yeah, yes. What? After all of my trips to India, and all of my trainings and all of my lessons and all my incredible meetings with women min gurus over there, I discovered my biggest quest, besides being the teacher there is I wanted to know if anybody was enlightened all the time, like meditative 24/7. And what I found was there a lot of people that were meditative and enlightened, almost all the time till the books didn't show up with the workshop, or the lightening of the cameras were working, or one of the assistants was out again, or they had a toothache. Okay. So almost always, but not always. But the big discovery was enlightenment. And thank you so much for the teachers gurus over there that share this with me is being unconditionally accepting of yourself. You are being unconditionally accepting of your breathing right now. You're on the journey.

Greg Voisen
Well, self-love and care, you know, compassion for oneself. You it's always been said, and I know that sounds a little bit trite, but you can't be good to anybody else. Unless you're good to yourself. And I Okay, simple. But that's not the way it usually goes. You're, as you mentioned, you know, five minutes ago, the ego has its own agenda, it sneaks in, you're not enough, something happens. You do that. But if you are cognizant, and accepting of the breathing, I'm going to repeat it unconditionally. Okay, it's three words. You're literally now falling into a space or accepting a space of I Am. Meaning I am I'm just okay the way I am. It's me. I don't have to be anybody else for anyone else or do anything else. Because, you know, when we take this to a grander scale here, even though it's less stress now, I mean, you and I could talk all day long about this, but you bring the quantum physics element into this, you want to bring the scientific element into it. There is only now, yesterday was a canceled check. Tomorrow's a promissory note. You know, hey, we we've got to live our lives for now. And you've heard this it's the old Eckhart Tolle thing, it's deep pockets. It's everybody. Right? And it can't be said enough. Because we forget, you know, I just did an interview with Marshall Goldsmith, who works with the highest achievers and kind of in the world as a coach, right? What do you think he said, the challenge was, he says, one end of the continuum is regret. And the other end of the continuum is purpose and meaning. And we kind of swing in between. And I said, that’s interesting, because I didn't know and I've known him for a long time. I said, you teach Buddhist practices here. And he goes, Yeah, I've been doing that since I was 17. I was indoctrinated into Buddhism back then. And I was like, really Marshall Goldsmith, kind of interesting. And he said, you know what I try and teach them. He said, I try and teach them impermanence, and non-attachment.

Greg Voisen
And I said, you're talking to the wealthiest, most successful people in the world. And he says, you want to know something? 90% of them don't have a clue what that is. Because it's always about achieving the next big thing or doing it. He said they could have 80 degrees and be inventing all these wonderful things. It's changing the world and whatever. And it's always about what's next. You know, I thought, you know, I mean, that's not enlightening. That just is yes. from your standpoint. What I mean, think about the kind of person who's living their life like that, and just the self-induced stress. If we have someone out there listening, you just heard what I said. And now is gonna get advice from the master of stress. Brian Alman would advise would you give him because I have a lot of high achievers listen to the show.

Dr. Brian Alman
Right? Well, I actually would value what your prior guests said and add, that my experience with people is that it's actually both that we actually want to be able to be detached. And that's a very good technique, and that's a meditative Buddhist technique, and to be connected and engaged because I found when I was with people that are Buddhists and meditating in India in here as well, that there is such a thing as too much detachment. I agree and you know, being too removed, so the answer is almost always been oath, Greg, is whether you're a high achiever or you have regrets or you have purpose, it's very important to be able to experience that presence, that spontaneity, that creativity, as well as the struggle, the difficulty, because what I find is that people need to get lost in the struggle. And you know, what we're a thought really doesn't matter anyway. Or I don't feel a thing. I'm so detached, I'm so meditative, and all of that, well, you know what, you're both right. Integrate and merge those two, and you'll find you're actually having a much better time with life and people and you're really being more real and authentic.

Greg Voisen
Well, Dalai Lama said the middle way, right? The middle way. It's not like, hey, we stay detached. And I understand that, but a lot of people never detach, then the other element is, if that's the middle way, then would be, you know, if, if you read stoicism, right, and you follow anything around that, and many of my listeners do, it's about the middle path. It's not extreme one way or the other anyway, right. And that's what you're, that's what you're advocating here. You're saying, look, it's it is both it is one, you know, it's the duality of things that we have, there's darkness, and there's light, you know, and then there's, and then there's, and then there's dimness.

Dr. Brian Alman
might be coming up with a new term here. I try ality, in that, you know, there's healing. And I have discovered that people are much more sensitive than I ever realized that everybody is really touched. Everybody can be criticized and hurt, everybody can be encouraged and inspired. We are incredibly sensitive beings. And it's really important for us to know that because we have empathy, we do care, even if we try to block it with all kinds of techniques, people are sensitive, people also have that energized and a critic never satisfied, never good enough, that subconscious ego, and that's a part of us also. And then we also have this inner wisdom and true authentic self. So there's actually three states of consciousness. And as I said earlier, it's not necessarily the middle ground, from my experience, it's allowing how sensitive we are, and how sort of self-proclaiming or egotistical or critical we are, to let them become non dominant, you're not getting rid of them, they're part of all of us, like rings of the tree, develop your potentials, to listen to your inner voice to be present, to be alive to really connect to, you know, be happy about what's right about your life. So you want that to become dominant, and your ego and your emotions become non dominant, there's not really a middle ground where they're all equal. Because if your emotions in your inner critic, you're in a judge become dominant, you're miserable. And they're gonna get into a struggle in a debate and fight all the time. That's where most people are. So we want to let them have this stream of consciousness, I do a lot of journaling, attend the course in the book with non-dominant hand because you want them to be non-dominant, scribble, doodle, let them all get a voice. And then when you get to your inner wisdom, your unconscious spontaneity, the true authentic you, you want to use your dominant hand, because you want that to become dominant. So there's real exercises, because real meditations are real processes that have been proven. We tend to 1000 people really work, how fast they help right away, how often they help every time you do it. So it's encouraging to know that everybody has that inner wisdom, these inner abilities, they just have to learn some of the skills and then figure out oh, I love that one. Oh, that one didn't work as well. Oh, that one's mine. Oh, yeah, I'm gonna customize that one. So you come up with and tailor from all the things you learn the things that work for you every single time no matter what's going on. And that's

Greg Voisen
that's a good, that's a good point. Brian and I and the other thing I know is that they need to get the book. So we're going to put a link to Amazon to get the book. You're gonna go to Dr. Brian Ullman. That's b-r-i-a-n-a-l-m-a-n.com. That's Dr. not spelled out Dr. And we'll put a link to that as well in the podcast here. We also will put a link to this call worse. This course is normally 497. And it's half price. And this would be Dr. Brian talking to you. And he also said, you can email him to get in touch with him. He also has an app that can be used and he uses it Kaiser. And I want to encourage you all to go to his website. And that now but that's a different that's true sage. T-r-u-e-s-a-g-e.

Dr. Brian Alman
True sage like you are your own true sage tea or t-r-u-e-s-a-g-e.com.

Greg Voisen
Right. And there's an app there, right? And can anybody buy that app off of that website? Okay, so we've got this app, we're gonna put a link to the app, we've got this course, which I'm the only one He's offered it to and half price. So please take advantage of that, that's it's going to change your life. Also, the book, the book is very inexpensive, you can get the Kindle version, or you get the regular book, just go to Amazon and do that. Now, Brian, let's wrap up the interview with this. You know, you personally have so many years of experience and so many stories and so many testimonials throughout the course of your career and doing this work for so many years. If there were today, three takeaways that my listening audience could leave this show with and say, Brian helped me with fill in the blank, what are the three things that you would advise or recommend that they start maybe practicing or think about practicing, that would have less stress now?

Dr. Brian Alman
Okay. Number one, the technique that we did together earlier, where you learned you can breathe your way through anything or relearn that and you are unconditionally accepting of you breathing, as it is not trying to fix change the solvent but accepting unconditionally as it is on your exhales. For Less stress Now, anytime, anyplace, and this will work every single time. One of the things I would love your viewers to learn, and you can do this now for a few breaths with me, say your own name to yourself, not allowed on your exhales. So let's just do five of these to your name to yourself on your exhales watch what happens.

Okay, so that's the

Dr. Brian Alman
first one, that we just bridged from the breath work that we did earlier together. I know everybody's much more relaxed now. And the good news is, that will always work. You know why? Because you work. And I just saved you about 30 years in your journey to get to that technique that took me a long time to find something that really is so simple, and always works, your name, you're saying it and unconditionally accepting way to nurturing. So that's very, very useful for you anytime, anyplace. And it's great for every age, and to my less stress for kids book. It's part of the ACE study, it's in 100 countries, it's everywhere. It's so simple, so direct. So enjoy that. The other thing I would love for your viewers to know, is your unconscious mind, which is what we're calling your inner wisdom, your spontaneity, the true authentic you, that part that we would love to have it become dominant, and your ego and your motions to become non dominant. Your unconscious mind is even smarter than you are. Right? Definitely. Thank goodness everybody's saying, right. So one of the points you made earlier, Greg, about how people aren't using that much of the capacity of their brain. I mean, the numbers have been thrown around like people use 12%. Some people have said 15% People say to me all the time, they know people that just use 1%, and they're actually worried about them. So just depends on how much your mind you think you're actually using. The important thing is that everybody is more capable than they realize. And nobody will ever achieve all of the capacity that they have inside the mind is amazing. I see it all the time what people accomplish; I never thought it would be possible. I was born missing part of my backache, chronic pain as a kid right into my 20s. I never thought I'd be free of the pain. I was in pain 95% of the time. Now I'm free of pain. More than 95% of time, I never thought that would happen in a million years. But fortunately, I met a wonderful teacher who was supposed to die of polio in his teens. I met him when he was 75. And he used the same techniques for pain control that he taught me. And the power of the mind. It actually worked in ways that I would never have believed if you told me or someone told me I couldn't believe it. So never underestimate the power of your mind. And your unconscious mind is even smarter than you are. You can breathe your way through anything. And now you have an exact technique that you can tailor and customize. And your viewers can know if they go to Dr. Ullman. Email me Dr. Amina Dr. Brian almond.com. I didn't go to the website, Dr. Brian almond.com. They can write me, I answer everybody, I will write back. And so people have access to ask the difficult questions and, you know, get real answers.

Greg Voisen
Well, I think like it's been very enlightening for the people. Number one, you've got three books, you got one for kids, you got stress. Now, you've actually told me remind me had 15 books. But if you go to Amazon, everybody, the newest series are these three books, you can also go to his website and see that but this main book for everybody listening most likely listening to my show is less stress now. Also, it's around this course, Brian, thank you for being on inside personal growth. I appreciate you as a person, as an author, as a physician, as somebody who's helping people transmute so many different conditions in their life and doing it through the power of you know, their unconscious and the power of breathwork. Meditation and all the techniques that you've provided like riding with your non dominant hand. I thought that was a pretty cool one as well. So thanks, Namaste to you. I appreciate your I look forward to having you back on inside personal growth. And we'll get this up for our listeners to take a gander at very quick. Thank you.

Dr. Brian Alman
Lots of love to you.

Greg Voisen
Alright.

powered by

I recently interviewed Dr. Joseph Shrand for his book Unleashing the Power of Respect: The I-M Approach. Now, the tables have turned as he is the one doing an interview with me about my book Hacking the Gap – A Journey from Intuition to Innovation and Beyond.

“I like to say it is the shortest distance between two points, encountering the least amount of resistance, growing personally and professionally, and optimizing your human potential.” – this is basically what Hacking the Gap means which is an important concept as it relates to developing a new product, service or idea. We are all looking for the shortest distance between the points so that we don’t have to continue finding ways that don’t work. Hence, Hacking the Gap helps the reader access personal powers such as intuition so that they can trust their ideas and shorten the learning lessons (failures) in the innovation cycle.

If you are an entrepreneur or business leader then then the concepts presented in this interview will certainly interest you. I speak about the power of accessing our intuition when making important business decisions.

If you want more information about the innovation cycle and Hacking the Gap, you may click here to visit my website. Meanwhile, you may check and listen to Dr. Joe Show’s podcasts by clicking this link. You may access our episode on this link.

Thanks and happy listening!

THE AUTHOR 

Greg Voisen, creator and host of Inside Personal Growth, is an author, creative consultant and thought leader in the human potential movement. Inside Personal Growth was born out of Greg’s passion for personal growth and mastery. He continually strives to improve his own life – spiritually, emotionally and physically – as he learns from the hundreds of authors interviewed on this website.

THE BOOK

Things you’ll learn in Hacking the Gap:

– Apply mindset applications in our daily life that spark more creative ideas.

– Capture and record our great ideas, and filter the best ideas into our next great product or service.

– Develop our ideas through the stages of design, testing to full implementation.

– Find the path of least resistance while growing personally and professionally and reaching our greatest human potential.

– Filter out the distractions that keep us from focusing on what’s most important

– Learn how to connect the dots in our subconscious mind that allow for the breakthroughs that evolve our ideas to the next stage of development

– Set up the perfect conditions to create and maintain “flow”—the nexus of creativity; and much more.

 

You may also refer to the transcripts below for the full transciption (not edited) of the interview.

Narrator
Join us now for the Dr. Joe Show with Mike styles of styles law. Thomas McCoy. And your host, Dr. Joe strand. Oh, gum show

Dr. Joseph Shrand
Applause Applause like it was a real nice one look good one especially. I mean, you're not winded. I mean, you're practicing for, for a pan mass. I mean,

Mark Stiles
practicing. Yes. I'm constantly practicing. I'm working, working towards the goal of not being tired out there. Yeah. So we went out there and a little heat heatwave today to see how we're doing on our hydration skills today.

Dr. Joseph Shrand
Crazy. When is the the actual race?

Mark Stiles
Two weeks? Well, it's not a race, not not a race. Let's be careful with our words, right. Technically, it starts two weeks from Saturday. But as I've mentioned here before, we are doing what's called day zero, the day before pan mass, we're gonna go out to the border of New York and and right into the beginning for the day before.

Dr. Joseph Shrand
And how can people donate to this cause

Mark Stiles
pmc.org And then you can search for your favorite writer, one named Mark Stiles would be honored to to accept your donations. But yeah, pmc.org very, very, very great. Organization. One weekend, a year raises more money than any other event in the nation. One event.

One,

Greg Voisen
what are you writing for Mark?

Mark Stiles
We are writing for Dana Farber Cancer Institute. So we're writing to eliminate cancer from from the planet. And they raise around $60 million last year. So I think their goal is is north of that. And we're really excited. So I've got a $20,000 goal this year, scratching the surface right now. But we've got a big push. So we've been doing some social media campaigns and doing some fun things. We're doing an event next week. And we're going I mean, the goal is is to eliminate cancer from from the vocabulary. Well get

Greg Voisen
get your writing gear on because I used to do it. And I did it extensively. I raised hundreds of 1000s for leukemia, lymphoma society, and I was a trainer and trained people and I did 18 events. Wow. 100 mile rides, so but you know how many miles you ride before you actually ride? So the reality is 26 weeks to training to get tuned up. You got lots of road time. Oh, yeah. My eldest son has chronic myelogenous leukemia, so Oh, I know. I know what it's like to do that. So congratulations to you. Good luck with your ride. Stay cool. And don't overheat.

Mark Stiles
Yeah, we're doing our best. We're doing our best.

Dr. Joseph Shrand
Who? The listeners may not recognize that voice. Let me pitch it over to you. And can you introduce our guest?

Thomas McKoy
Oh, that wasn't Larry. Larry. Oh, nevermind. Dr. Joe, I got a little memo here. Talk to Joe is the creator and host of inside personal growth. He's an author, creative consultant and thought leader in the human potential movement. Inside personal growth was born out of his passion for personal growth and mastery. He continually strives to improve his own life spiritually, emotionally and physically, as he learns from the hundreds of authors interviewed on his website. Welcome to the doc Joe Show. Greg Voisin.

Welcome, Greg.

Greg Voisen
All of you. Thank you very much, and all of the listeners in Boston and surrounding areas. Thank you for listening to me and wanting to learn more about my show me and my book.

Dr. Joseph Shrand
Well, let's get right into it. Let's start with you. Greg, you have a remarkable background. I've read your book, the opening, is it. It's just so powerful. Can you want to tell folks a little bit first of all about opening up hacking the gap?

Greg Voisen
Yeah, the book is called hacking the gap, a journey from intuition to innovation. And I think where the journey starts with me, and I'll be brief with this is, you know, as you're growing up all these life experiences, Dr. Joe, as you know, which goes along with you as a psychologist, kind of getting even worse, psychiatrists,

Greg Voisen
of course. But I think what happens is, you know, we start to set up these limiting beliefs and the reason that I act actually started this show is I used to be in that I'm speeding forward here. But for a long time, I was a top producer in the financial services industry. And I was just burned out. And my son came to me and he says, you know, Dad, you go to all those million dollar roundtable meetings, and you get to hear all those great speakers. How about if you brought them on your show? Greg, how will you know how old were

Dr. Joseph Shrand
you when your son came up to you? How old was yours? Not how old are you? How old was your son, when he came up here to give you that?

Greg Voisen
Advice? Yeah, how old was he was about 14 at the time, because he built the first website.

Dr. Joseph Shrand
That's incredible. 14 years old with wisdom. Go ahead. So what happened next?

Greg Voisen
So I started this podcast show 15 years ago, inside personal growth as a means to help educate people and inform them and inspire them about what they could do about. And I'm not just going to say limiting release, because we cover business, personal growth, wellness, mastery, and spirituality. So what I find is that the spirituality side of things is a big issue. But we you know, and I both know that some of the issues are, you know, you've got the subconscious and the conscious. And the subconscious mind gets programmed. And literally, it's very hard to unwind. And I believe that as as human species, walking the face of the earth, that I was speaking with a social biologist, the other day on a podcast, her book was watchman's rattle, and the other one was on the verge. And she said, You know, it's really great, you, we do all this, we have all these analytics, we can tell what's going on. But the reality is, and her name is Rebecca Costa, and she says, As a social biologist, looking at our species for millions of years, we literally wait till almost disaster to make a change. We're really programmed that way, we're rewired that way. And I what I wanted to let people know is that you can choose to make a change before that, in the hacking the gap, part of it is finding the fastest way between point A and point B. Really, and doing that through learning versus you having to have all these difficult learning experiences. Now, just yesterday, I had a beautiful guest on the show Sterling Hawking. And his book is called hunting discomfort. And he's basically saying the only way through is the discomfort that you have to go through to basically and you should be haunting it, you shouldn't be waiting for discomfort to come because different discomfort is going to come. So my show is really around everybody who's discomfortable, uncomfortable, uncertain, looking for solutions with inside themselves, and has the ability, obviously, then to take action on that. In other words, you can take the action when you choose to take that action. So that's a little bit about me, but more about, you know, the book, the process and how I got there.

Dr. Joseph Shrand
But But what was it that was going on in your world that inspired you to do this for so many other people?

Greg Voisen
I would say that I had a lot of you know, as the Buddha says, there's pain and suffering, and then there's getting out of pain and suffering, right. And I think there was a tremendous amount of pain and suffering from me on not being enough. And I think I see so many people out there who don't believe there enough. And whether it was your parents who said, Hey, you needed to get A's in high school and college, and you believe that or you wouldn't be or you need to be on the Dean's list or whatever the story was, or you needed to marry this XYZ person because it was going to be great. It's all about you know, self doubt. doubting ourselves and doubting our ability and from a personal growth standpoint, the 957 interviews with authors on really these topics. And what I find is a broad range of approaches to I wouldn't say solving the problems either really analyzing the problems analyzing the problems and you defining your own solution.

Dr. Joseph Shrand
You defined yours.

Greg Voisen
Well, mine was the pain and suffering of a family. You know, I you go back to this. I was brought up with a little Jewish mother and a Catholic father, he never He never practiced Catholicism. So my mother's was a dominant in the field. In light, and her message was the Groundhog's Day that, what did you do for me today? She didn't mean for her. She meant what did you do today? There was never about being it was always about doing. Right. And so I think what happens is we get caught in this kind of rat trap of not really thinking about who we are what we want to become, but what we need to do to look good in the eyes of other people, and especially your parents, who you're living up to who've put a pretty high put you on a pretty high pedestal in most cases, right? I think, and I don't, and I don't think Joe from generation to generation, this isn't anything against my mother's generation or the generation prior to her. But I think this is perpetuated, you know, if I did a histogram of my family, I could see all of that. There, I did a history grant. So I saw what happened with inside the family. And I'm not blaming anybody, I'm so blessed to have had a family like this. But I'm even more blessed for what I just said, having figured it out on my own, and worked my way through it to get to the other side. Now that meant, you know, Dr. Joe, going through anxiety attacks, not being able to get on an elevator not being able to go into a restaurant, being afraid, thought I was having a heart attack being hooked up to stuff on my head so that they could look at the electrodes and see what I was doing. When I actually saw what I was doing myself to debilitate myself physically, that it wasn't, you know, something that somebody on the outside world did? I can't blame them. Nope. For what's going on. I created it all

Dr. Joseph Shrand
tribal, if it's always someone else's fault, you're never in control. Right? And if you're not in control, you're always going to be anxious. So great. Open, where do you want to go? Now? Do you want to go into the book, you want to go deeper into your spirituality, your life?

Greg Voisen
It's kind of leave that up to you, you can go either way. Because the book, you know, it's kind of a memoir. You know, it isn't? It isn't. It's really a lot of instructional design of what you can do. But, but for the most part, there's things that I advocate doing that I believe will help people out of pain and suffering.

Dr. Joseph Shrand
Yeah, yeah. I was wanting to write a book like that called a self help book, a memoir, you know, it's like, it's because that's what you've done is you really have taken the examples of your life, and really shown how you then move with that to another position. But you know, you and I were on the same page with this.

Greg Voisen
But you know, what writers always say is if, you know if Mark was sitting next to me in a movie theater, He'd want me he'd want to hear the story that, like, we're friends, we just sit there and we talk to one another. Right? And I believe podcast show is the same. Every time I dress dress my audiences. I'm saying, you know, you're with me. I'm, I don't put me on a pedestal. I'm equal with you. Yes, I've gone through some things. Maybe you can learn from these. Maybe you can't. I'm happy to share it with you. Yeah.

Dr. Joseph Shrand
But this is this is, you know, what we're talking about now with lived experience. You know, that's everyone has it. There's just some people who've had more trauma during it. We've all we all have lived experience. This is our law. And all fair. We were talking about a new book that you're working on, Greg. So tell me about that.

Greg Voisen
I'm working. I'm really excited about it. Actually, I've been so blessed to meet so many authors along the way. A lot of them have said, Hey, Greg, will you help me write my next book. And this one is life on the precipice. And it's a story of a gentleman who has done climbed the highest Seven Summits. And I think that all of these peaks that we we re we get to his people come with challenges, right. So he's climbed Everest twice, he's climbed all the highest seven summits in the world. But in the process of writing this book, I got the pleasure and the honor of interviewing in excess of 20 mountain climbers who've climbed most of these peaks, okay. And some of you might some of the listeners might know memes. That's the the guy from Tibet did the story. You probably know the guy that did the face and Yosemite. We had, you know, so you look at these people. And I said, it's interesting how they look at life, Dr. Joe, they're not intentionally going out after death. They're intentionally going out because they're curious and they're explorers. But they say you only live life when you face death. So in other words, when you get to that precipice when you get to that peak for me to make it up there, and you'll hear this again and again, and again, they're say, We're not saying we're advocating the death, but we're so drawn to the mountains, that the mountains call us to keep getting to the top and exploring. And I think that's about personal growth as well. The journey that you take from birth to death is your journey. And every step along the way, you get an opportunity to make choices, do I go this way? Do I go that way? Is there going to be an avalanche? And there's gonna be a rockslide? You know, what am I gonna fall, whatever it might be. But you know, it's, in the end, you'll hear this from them too, because their lives are so rattled with trying to find balance and harmony. They're away from their families for long periods of time. Lots of divorces, lots of challenges. Not really being able to manage that, well, because this calling from the mountains is so strong, that they just leave, they just go, it's almost like they blank out and go, Well, I'm gonna leave you again, where you did take care of the family, I'm off to go climb the mountain, right, another six month expedition. So I found it fascinating and finding the whole thing fascinating. Because the insights that are being received as a result of this gift, I was given by a gentleman by the name of Beau Parfit. It, it just correlates so much to personal growth. And to my book, hacking the gap. Everybody on that mountain, is trying to find the shortest distance between two points, with the least amount of pain and suffering along the way to get to the peak,

Dr. Joseph Shrand
it's an incredible metaphor. But it's interesting, given your interview with the socio biologist, socio biologist who's saying that that many human beings are incredibly cautious, and they don't want to make a change until they absolutely have to adapt to a new environment. And yet that can absolutely cripple us. If we are waiting for the environment, to influence the changes that we make.

Greg Voisen
Well, the juxtaposition is, you get a lot of people that sit on their butt, and you get a lot of people that mountain climb. So you have to say it physiologically, if the endorphins are being released chemically with inside of me as a result of the activity. So here you have Mark, he's gonna go to a bike ride, you can't tell me that bike riding doesn't release tons of endorphins, because it does, because what happens is you get out you have nothing else to think about, you're on the road, and you're literally one with yourself. It's a meditation beyond any meditation in the world, you can go dou Chen, you can tell me everything about meditation, I've spent more time on a cushion as much as anybody. And I will tell you riding my bike is more meditative than sitting on the cushion. Okay. And the reason is sitting on the cushion is not providing me with the same endorphin. Not that it couldn't. Because look, I just watched the Netflix deal with Michael Poland, on all the psychosocial ovens and, you know, micro dosing, LSD and taking ayahuasca and all these things to attempt to get to a certain level within Sinai. Now, I believe that all these these plant based drugs are wonderful. It's curing OCD, it's curing PTSD, it's doing all kinds of things that people out there on pain with, and they can really shorten the cycle of that pain. by actually taking or administering one of those drugs, I would highly advocate it.

Dr. Joseph Shrand
One has to be quite cautious. So who endorsed this

Greg Voisen
indoors of the show? I understand.

Dr. Joseph Shrand
But Mark, let me ask you, you know, do you relate to what Greg is talking about? What's the best bang for cycling?

Mark Stiles
Yeah, so I mean, the reason I'm there is, I'm more of a I always say I'm a fundraiser not a cyclist. I'm a fundraiser, who happens to ride a bike, but over the years, I'm totally engaged with what Greg is talking about, because there's something about riding you, you see things that you would never see, in a car, you'll never see jogging, right? Jogging, you run three miles and you run a circle and you see the same things. Every time maybe you run five, seven miles, but here you're writing over the course of training hundreds and hundreds of miles in random random places and it's your Really, it's splendid, because you, you really realize what is out there and it is meditative. There's no question about it, if you're in that zone and simply pedaling and looking around, it's, it's quite relaxing.

Greg Voisen
It is. Even Even Dr. Joe, the CANS that have been thrown out on the side of the roads become interesting little obstacles for you, because you only have one. And you can chime in Mark, you only have one objective. And your objective is, every time your foot moves around the pedal, to make sure you stay upright, stay focused, and you'd stay diligent on the road and make sure you don't get hit, or whatever it might be. And at the same time, you get the opportunity to enjoy that scenery off to the right or the left. I happen to be blessed, I get to ride up and down the coast of California. So every time I ride to the right, I look out into the ocean and I can see whales I can see seals. If it's on a great day, I can see some really nice bikinis too, right? So the reality is, is that you do this and it but it isn't something that if you drove your car, like he just said, that you would take notice of but because the bike doesn't go as fast, and you're exerting energy, lots of energy to make this happen, whether you're climbing a hill or you're doing whatever, it becomes extremely meditative.

Dr. Joseph Shrand
Great. And then how do you use that? Exercise that meditative ability and translate it into your workday? How do you take that? What sounds like peace and calm and awareness and vigilance? And, you know, just being tuned in? How do you then take that and use it and work? Is that part of hacking the gap as well?

Greg Voisen
Yeah, well, there's, there's prescriptive, and there's takeaways in the chapter, anyone who gets the book will can read that. There's a lot on meditation, there's a lot on salience, there's a lot on contemplation. When I say a lot, I mean, there's much written about the, the things you can do. So if we are going to be doing beings, let's do doing beings, which is helping take us to the highest level of consciousness as a soul, we could to transmute whatever level of pain, it also allows you to get tremendous focus. I mean, you know, Steven Kotler has been on here the art of impossible, all these books that he's written and done studies on this? And you'll say, Look, you know, Mark, does it? I'll bet for two reasons. One, he's out there raising money. And that's a cause beyond himself. So he has a purpose. But he's also curious, when you start with curiosity leads through a series of things to purpose, and I believe that it does. And most people have high levels of curiosity. So I'm doing an interview with Seth Goldberg is in actually is in Nantucket. And the book is called Radical curiosity. Right? And you know, we've lost, we've lost this radical curiosity, to help solve problems. And I think he's absolutely right. And Dr. Joe, what I would say is, when you get out on a bike, and you use this now to come in, you're more engaged to want to focus on doing something good and solving somebody's problem.

Dr. Joseph Shrand
Well, that radical curiosity, it would be nice if we could regain that. But what is really terrific is many of our sponsors are radically curious about their thing and how they can help you. So Tom, what about you? What's what's, what's your meditative state? What do you do?

I like really long walks. So in my town in martial, which we all live, as I have about, I think it's about a 10 mile walk between my house and this area called Green Harbor. And I actually lost 80 pounds over the first winter, the winter of 2021. Mostly by walking like two and a half hours every night. And it's like, especially in the winter, it's super peaceful.

And I got a lot of thinking done, or that time, a lot of thinking here. Did

Dr. Joseph Shrand
you know I think somehow Oh Xamarin is gaming meditative? Or are you just too tuned in?

Thomas McKoy
Oh sure can be. I think if it's like a game you're familiar with that you can play to relax. You can really, you can really tune out. Sometimes some games, you'll play like Minecraft, for example, it's a great game to like, listen to podcasts to. There are some that are very story driven. But yeah, I think I think games like Tetris or something, I think, like people will play that explosively to relax and clear

Greg Voisen
the head. So yeah. And I think, Dr. Joe, he's absolutely right, you know that walking through these 80 pounds was a tremendous thing to do. But more importantly, the time he got to think about everything else, because you actually get to change your actions as a result of that deep contemplative thinking, you know, where you may want to go with this is the intuition. Yeah, I that might be a good place after this commercials done to like, plug off into, you know, well, you have a way to help people get from intuition to innovation, how do they do that? And we could kind of maybe do a little round robin on that.

Dr. Joseph Shrand
I think that'd be great. And I think I wrote to, you know, one of the things that I teach all my students is, intuition is the precursor to technique.

Mark Stiles
And we are back. We are back with the Dr. Joe Show with author, Greg voice. And who is hacking the gap that we're going to talk about going from intuition to innovation? Isn't that what we're going to be talking about? Dr. John, let's

Dr. Joseph Shrand
jump right into it.

Greg Voisen
Okay. Well, so this book, while it is written for individuals who are entrepreneurs, everybody's abroad entrepreneur in my mind, like I agree, or can be, okay. And I tested this because I went to the universities, and I did a lot of studies, and I, and I interviewed a software engineers and all kinds of other people. And you know, somebody who was radically curious, like we said, last time, when Steven Jobs probably couldn't have been anybody more radically curious than Steven Jobs. But you'll find that a lot of the architects of our software, there's many gentlemen and women who are radically curious, they want to solve a problem. And so I said to myself, well, I want to ask you guys something. And I started out with this survey, Dr. Tau around intuition. Well, do you believe that use intuition to create the software do you believe use intuition? Where did this intuition come from? And I'd get some people that would just light up and go, Yeah, I got into it, and I get other people. Now it's too scientific. There's no intuition. I don't believe in intuition. It's like, well, really? So did you ever have a feeling? Did you ever get a sense? Did you ever go down? Well, yeah, I did. But I don't believe that's intuition. Because I believe what happened is I programmed my brain enough through college and enough meetings that I connected the dots. And I said, Yeah, I believe you did connect the dots. But sometimes you connect the dots. And it's, you're missing a dot. Where did the dot come from? Well, I had this epiphany. Oh. So you did have some little epiphany about how you might redesign something to make it. So here's for the listeners. And there's a little graph and chart in the book, Dr. Joe dosis. You know, I believe it starts with intuition. It's listening deeply. We just talked about that, you know, Mark's going on a bike ride. Thomas is doing long walks. He's listening deeply. Right. And there is a voice that speaks to you. People that say, oh, voice and you're crazy. And you know, you get you hear these voices.

Dr. Joseph Shrand
Was that upon? Yeah,

Greg Voisen
exactly. And then the second thing is, I think from that, you get an insight. And the Insight is really, it's the I call it the aha moment. There's a lot written about insights. There's a lot written about intuition. But when that insight now is like, Whoa, I have an idea. I have an idea for that. iPhone, Steve Jobs. Right. How many of you know he used to use the tone on the phone? Probably Thomas does. And he used to go in payphones and he used to hit those numbers. And he started with the tones that the phone would make, you know, you'd get that not not not, you know when you're hitting it, so, and he used to scam the phone company because he knew how to do it. He was that smart. That's how he was making all kinds of calls without ever paying for them. So you had this idea. And here's the point. You get inspired then because knowing it's right, here's, here's what it is. Is it a knowing for you It doesn't have to be a knowing for somebody else. All right. So, you know, your, your people argue points with you about your idea. And they tell you, as I just said, you're crazy, you're a lunatic, that idea is never going to work. And then you read in the newspaper, six months later, some guy had the same idea and went for it. And you're like, shoot, I had that great idea. And I'm saying, everybody's got great ideas. You just didn't take action on what we were just talking about, at the beginning of the show, we waited around forever, before we ever implemented anything. Then after inspiration, you incubate, we all incubate for a period of time, we got to think about it, cogitate on it, think it over. After that, here's one of the hardest steps. And it's the ignition step. All right. And that's where you manage the energy associated with launching any good idea. Because a lot of entrepreneurs will burn out before the idea ever takes hold, because they don't know how to manage their own personal energies. So whether you take runs, or you ride your bike, or you meditate or whatever it might be. And I found this to be the case, because for me, I got in many positions where I ended up getting anxiety attacks, because I was so much there that I couldn't deal with it. It was like, I didn't know how to manage the energy. I was like overboard, right? And then you're going to the innovation. And people say, well, that's innovation stage. Oh, yeah, you have to innovate the idea. And you got to take it, you got to make prototypes, you got to make models, you got to, you know, you got to work it up, right. And last one is implementation. So the step from innovation, the implementation is, for most people, that's the marketing part. That's the part well, I got my prototype, it works. I sent it to China, it all came back. It's all working, Let's now put it to market, we're going to put it on the internet, we're going to shove it up at Amazon, we're gonna we're gonna get it work, we're gonna get people to buy it. So that little cycle, I went out, and then I went to people in innovation departments actually very famous one in Massachusetts, actually, a gouge, can't think of her name right now. And I asked her, I said, Hey, you know, this was my theory. I just kind of tested it. She said, You know, you have every step that is actually almost 100%. Correct. I might put it in a different order. But the reality is, anybody who's studied innovation, every one of those steps is part of the process about okay, well, I thought that was my idea. It really wasn't actually an RFP been out there. But the reality is, is that I think everybody needs to know that, with inside of you, resides a person who has a great idea that if you act on it, could do something that could change the world. So act on it.

Mark Stiles
So what do you say to the folks that say, Yeah, but if I say it out loud, someone might steal it from me?

Greg Voisen
Well, I think Dr. Joe would probably attest to this is they have enough self self doubt in themselves, that they aren't willing to say it out loud. And they have fear, they have so much fear themselves. So we could talk about fear all day long. But I remember a long time ago going to talks. And I think it was Zig Ziglar used to say it's false expectations Appearing Real. Right. And I always could remember that acronym. Right. And again, I come from more of a Eastern philosophy. I think the biggest challenge in managing that and energy mark, and Joe and Tom, is you get attached to something, and you think it's going to happen a certain way. But if you have attachment to the cola goal occurring a certain way, it doesn't always happen that way. And that burns you out and that was me. I was like, oh, it's gonna go just this way. You're step one, step two, step three, step four. That's bullshit. It never ever happens that way. The other part is, you know, Marshall, Goldsmith was on here, the the biggest coach in the United States coaching people that achieve a ton and he said, you know, you move on a continuum from regret, to fulfillment. And here's the reality is that when you don't know that all of this is impermanent, and you're a high achiever, you don't even know as a high achiever. What impermanence is, you don't even know what not being attached to something as if you're I achiever. And why are you a high achiever? Because you're trying to solve something for yourself or prove something to yourself or to someone else and most likely somebody else?

Dr. Joseph Shrand
Yeah. Does that get back to the philosophy of your mom to do?

Greg Voisen
Oh, yeah, my mom, she ingrained into me. What did you do today? Are you saving your money? You know, it doesn't matter what it was, but hers was all around. I'm not gonna just say doing it was all about you achieving because the only way you could be recognized was to achieve something.

Dr. Joseph Shrand
I think, you know, that. That also haunts a lot of people doesn't make Greg that some people, they feel they're imposters they feel that their achievements are just Shams to other people. And yet, we're all at an I Am, we're all doing the best we can at every moment in time, the potential to change. And to back to intuition, one of the things that that I like to say is, intuition is a precursor to technique. You know, we have these intuitive things to do, we just sort of instinctively do something, it's our intuition with this. But once you know why you're doing it, you can do it at any time. You can make it a technique. And to go back to some of your other things about the innovation and and be able to see this this intuition this picture, there was this guy could Cooley none of you ever know, but this guy is in organic chemistry people still awake, I'm sorry. But in organic chemistry, there was this problem with this, this molecule, these carbon six carbons, that didn't make sense at all. And Cooley was working on this working on it. He had a dream. He literally, I'm talking about he had a dream like a vision. He was asleep. And in sleep, he had this dream about six snakes that were in a circle biting each other's tails. That is the structure of the carbon benzene ring. That's what changed our understanding of organic chemistry. And it was a dream he he had this intuition. He put it together.

Greg Voisen
And what you say there about the snake biting its tail is literally in the dove Qin philosophy. That's awareness of your awareness. So you know, when you're aware nests of your awareness, right? Then there's no thing. Yeah, then the mind is empty. You know? So So I think that, because that symbolism of that, you know, that snake that you just said, I have a feeling there might have been more to that than just solving the problem, right? Because when you can get that to that a state, you can then find this. I'm not gonna say nirvana. But we I talked a few minutes ago about, and you said, this isn't endorsed by the show. But if people are going to take psychosocial, or, you know, any of these LSD or whatever, microdose. You know, they're actually seeking some kind of state like that to get through. Now, in this gentleman's case, as a scientist, he was trying to break through the problem. Yes. Right. And I didn't mean it. He didn't microdose something to get there. Maybe he did before he went to sleep. But my point was, is that he came up with a solution, you don't have to microdose anything to do now. You know, what you have to do? You have to do a hell of a lot more bike riding like what Mark's doing, and I'm doing, and you will get there.

Dr. Joseph Shrand
Yeah, you will. Because when you can be connected to the world in that way, when we realize that, that the air that we breathe doesn't separate us, but connects us. Right? That is a powerful, powerful thing. And I think it's very comforting. I think, you know, we're one group where humanity is not this group, and that group in this group and that group separated all the time. We don't have to be, but it's in that separation, that we get the anxiety. Because if I'm separate from you, then you may want to compete with me. But what's nice is we don't have that competition here. We're not separate. We are endorsed and supported by so many people, including our sponsors.

Mark Stiles
So Greg, you were a financial adviser? Is that what your initial career

was?

Greg Voisen
actually went? Do? You want me to distill it down? Yeah, I did that. But I was in the top 3% of all life insurance salesman in the world. So I was selling a product which people never even knew they could collect on.

Mark Stiles
What was it a

Greg Voisen
life insurance? Yeah. Life insurance. You don't think that that's not the hardest in tangible in the world to sell, right? Guy says I'm gonna give you money and I have to die.

Mark Stiles
Right? What were you selling it as an investment vehicle with some of the cash value and I sold whatever

Greg Voisen
was important I think what you realize is that a lot of people in the million dollar roundtable what we realized is that there was nothing less expensive to leverage your ability, should you pre decease your heirs, right? And if you get that, and you say, hey, look, I have a wife, five kids, they're gonna have to carry on if a bus hits me tomorrow or whatever, I paid on a lot of death claims where they were really grateful. But it's a tough business.

Dr. Joseph Shrand
Yeah. What makes it so tough, but

Greg Voisen
I think what makes it tough is the amount of rejection, tons of rejection. Nine out of 10 people fail at it to be a success at it. I remember, they did an ego test on me at the time, because I was in my late 20s, early 30s. And the guy said, You're off the chart on the ego test. What? So that meant that I had the ability to sustain large amounts of rejection and succeed. And I did you know, I mean, you're gonna get eight people say no, and two people say, yes, if you're lucky, you know. So that was a really good training ground.

And at what point did you say that this is not fulfilling

Greg Voisen
the part when it always became financial, and there was nothing spiritually because I was speaking to my clients about spiritual things. And if I got clients and understood the spiritual element of it, I was happy. But most clients started as you said, buying it as an investment, and it's got cash value. I'm never gonna see it.

Dr. Joseph Shrand
Before he I won't say before you had this insight, but But there must have been some moment when your your 14 year old son comes up to you and says, Dad, you know, maybe it's time to do something else. Well,

Greg Voisen
you know, he, my son, was very observant. And he saw that I was in pain, like I said, and the pain was attributed to. And now I realized that at time I didn't, my belief system about what I was doing. I think anything is transmittable when you shift the lens focus. And but I didn't know how to shift that lens of focus, and my perspective. So to me, it was brave. And so he and I actually grew a little older. But during that time, I started the show. And then he became a teen. And then I started a consulting company for business owners. And through a company called illuminate consulting, Inc. And our job was really transforming the culture of the organizations with inside it. And we would go around and do meditation retreats when they weren't very cool. And it was amazing. I remember, Joe, when URI and I went down to this big conference were invited to for logistics. So this is fat X. It's It's It's ups, it's all these guys, right management. And we said, our program is called Nevermind the noise thriving in a world of ever increasing complexity come to this workshop. Well, when the management companies put that up, there were 1000s it sold out, they were waiting out the door. My my son and I were like, How in the world is this happening? These guys that are out there doing logistics, driving trucks and whatever, want to come in and figure out how to get some peace. So we did this Nevermind the noise workshop for quite some time, all around the country, and for the insurance industry that I had been in. And the reality was, it wasn't just meditation, we we taught more than that about releasing, how to release themselves from the confines of that concise construct in the mind. But they all walked away. And honestly, we would do an hour long workshop, we'd put 15 to 20 minutes and meditation and they'd all be leaving floating going because they've never actually done breathing, deep breathing or meditating ever. And they're like, cool, because we would have this for three days at this workshop, Joe, and we'd see the same people come back again. So they were coming back into the workshop more than once. So I thought that was very fulfilling.

Dr. Joseph Shrand
You know, it is wonderful to hear Greg because, you know, one of the things that we've talked about with the aim is, you know, when you remind someone else or their value, you increase your own value. And in part is this also what Mark was talking about with with his bicycle riding he'll use it with gratitude and how How it's amazing. Well, maybe you can talk about mark when when you're writing, you know, and people are handing you water or just on the side of the road.

Mark Stiles
The event itself. Yeah, it's it's 48 hours of pure gratitude volunteers. Thanking, thank you. No, thank you. And then there's people on the side showing signs I'm, you know, 12 years old because of you. And you know those things. It's it's spiritual, it's, it's very, very fulfilling. And it's

Greg Voisen
plus there's a big community mark that yeah, that you want to talk about community support, and what you do with young people who've had addiction and bringing them in this community of writers and support, and administrators for the organization's Dana Farber in this case, it's just you can't, I don't know of anywhere else I've gone, where it found that deep connectedness in the community. That's why you keep coming back year and year and people say, Oh, you've done like, 13 events, you're coming back again, what are you a masochist? And I was like, you know, yeah, I am.

Dr. Joseph Shrand
Something there really? Is something about service about doing something for somebody else. Yeah. You know, one of the things we talked about with the aim is we all want the same thing, which is just to feel valued by somebody else. But for millennia, human beings have increased their value by decreasing somebody else's, and then are astonished that the other person does the same. That's why we have the wars, the conflict, the separations. But we don't need to do that anymore. We actually never needed to do that. You can always remind someone of their value, you become more valuable, you increase your group, which means you're then safer. And when you feel safer, you can shift your brain from that, well, you talk about the cortisol response and in your book about the stress and how cortisol will interfere with that you can then actually do more. When you give, one of the things we say in the addiction world that I've talked with my my folks about is contribute to society to help with your sobriety. When you contribute, it increases oxytocin in your brain, not Oxycontin, oxytocin, can you just feel trusted? That's what we really want. So, what do you think, Greg?

Greg Voisen
I think it's, uh, you know, you're speaking about your group, and addiction. I just did an interview with Pamela Brinkley, she wrote a book called Conscious bravery, how to care for people with addiction. I just I it was really, really fascinating. Because, you know, the caregivers of people with addiction, her case, two sons that gone on methamphetamines, and created a very hellish life for her. Plus, she had just lost her husband to brain cancer, as these kids were growing up. So she kind of compounded. But what you said what she did, to transmute the pain was to learn how to be okay with who she was as a mother, that she didn't blame herself. She used meditation. And again, I don't want to harp on meditation, but I do want to say that I'm an advocate for whatever it is that you do, that can calm your mind and get the monkey out of the brain, because it's in there all the time repeating and talking. So whether you do walks like Thomas did, or you get on a bike, or you go surf for, it doesn't matter. I think anything in nature, is a great prescriptive tool. And if you read my book, you're gonna see I give lots of nature prescriptive elements associated with it. Because we have, and I'm not saying everybody, but as a society, I think we've lost touch with nature. You know, Mother Earth is calling out right now, global warming is calling out, you guys are sitting in Boston at 97 degrees tonight. We're seeing fires all around Spain and other places in the world. And you can't tell me that there isn't a revolt as a result of this from the earth saying, Enough is enough, right? And so I hope as a society, we all can come together and find solutions for these problems. And in the process, I hope we all learn how peaceful we can be as a society along the way, because we do not have to have this insane conflict in Ukraine and Russia and what's going on? Not that it's the only one like I can go back in history and we can name hundreds of these stupid wars that have occurred,

Dr. Joseph Shrand
but I couldn't agree more and you know, that's what I also hope People read the book. Because intuition to innovation and beyond, it's more than just your business, it really is how we approach the world. Right now is the time, you know, the I Am approach, we talked about the four domains were doing the best we can in response to your home domain, your social domain, the biological domain of your brain and body and the eye see how I see myself? How I think other people see me, because these domains interact, a small change, any domain can have a big effect, you don't have to change everything. So great. Given what we're talking about tonight. What small change can you recommend to our listeners?

Greg Voisen
I think one of them is intention, setting your intention to do something for yourself and someone else, you know, my show, you know, you made a contribution, I decided that every dollar that came in from the author's it's gonna go to the homeless. And so I walked the street with gift cards, and I gave it out to the homeless. And when it gets cold enough, I give them socks and hats, and they do whatever. Now, I couldn't tell you how many of those people are drug addicted, or how many of them are just bad on luck. But I have interviews that I've done with them, I will tell you 80% of them are not drug addicted. They're literally just there because of some bad luck. Some some some circumstances and events that they don't didn't know how to deal with. And they didn't have what you and I are talking about right now. The I Am. Yeah. Okay. And if they did, they probably wouldn't be there. So give me an opportunity to give them a chance. Yeah.

Dr. Joseph Shrand
And it's so it's not about morality, it's about mortality is just the way the brain works. This isn't a moral issue. But the second truth of the I Am, everyone is interested in what you think or feel about them to that ice domain. And that has effect on their biological domain. Because you know, it feels different when you feel respected or disrespected. You're part of someone's home or social domain. So the second truth you control no one, you influence everyone, you get to choose the kind of influence you want to be. Greg voice, what kind of influence do you want to be?

Greg Voisen
I would say that I would, the influence that I want to have his compassion spread to everybody that I live work with. I understand I'm not perfect. There are times like you got to look at yourself. You get angry, you get upset at things. But underneath all that compassion, and I was not just the Dalai Lama, and not just Steven Kotler. But in the end, if we're going to solve all these other problems, one of the biggest thing that needs to happen is there needs to be everybody needs to have a big dose of compassion for the other souls walking the planet. And with that, that's, that's really what I say. I mean, my my foundation is compassionate communications foundation

Dr. Joseph Shrand
of a gap, Greg voice and you can get it on Amazon, Amazon and his website. Please, folks, get it TV is terrific. Greg, thank you so much for being on.

Greg Voisen
Thanks for having me. Thanks, Mark. Thanks, Tom.

Dr. Joseph Shrand
We're now off WAP live, but we're still on Facebook. Greg, that was fantastic. Yeah, so fast. Anything else that, you know, you would have liked to cover that? You think we can send a message out to our Facebook Live folks, and all of this will be a podcast next week as well. So

Greg Voisen
okay. You know, I would just say like, if, if somebody out there is hurting for some reason, whatever that pain and suffering is that they're going through, a lot to offer up, you know, they can reach out to me, they can reach out to you. They really can reach out to a lot of people. But don't feel like you have to walk this journey and path alone. You know, I reflect and I think I told you this story before, but I used to study a lot of Alan Watts and I had the the pleasure and knowledge of actually I had pleasure of going into George Leonard's living room, the guys that actually started Escalon and Dorje sat there and talk to me about mastery, the practice of something, something you have to practice. And what I would say is one of the things you need to practice is being kind to yourself. We don't frequently look at that as something that we're going to practice. We just think, Okay, that's great. But awareness of the fact that you're probably not being kind to yourself Have doesn't just pop up. You know, it's nice that like, just there isn't just this big awareness all of a sudden, hey, I'm not treating myself very well. So I would say look at take some time, for self compassion, for self awareness, to treat yourself better. And when you treat yourself better, you're going to treat all the people around you so much better. Because you're going to release a lot of anger and frustration that you have as a result of that. Because you normally are beating yourself up for something you should have could have done that you didn't do. And the reality is Dr. Joe, like you said, I am okay. Just the way I am right now. That's right. And I know I'm echoing the same message that you talk about, but but it is so healing, it could heal everybody on the show. Yeah, it can. You really have to practice it.

Dr. Joseph Shrand
The I agree, you have to be aware of it. So even when you're beating yourself up, that's your ai n. For at that moment in time, that's the best you can do. But you can now step back and wonder, why am I doing this? What's happening in my four domains, my home is social, my biological my I see that the best I can do right now is not cared for myself. And instead of judging yourself about that, step back. wonder about it, it is much more rewarding to be reflective and reflexive and much more important to wonder than to worry, we have to be able to do this. And Greg, your, your book gives us these guidelines how to do it. I mean, we're so simpatico it's no, it's we have different words for the same thing, which is we're one group where we're doing okay, but if we don't like what's happening, we can change it. And honestly, at this point, we really have to, we really have

Greg Voisen
well, it's like the tapestry you know, Mark, it's not coincidence that Mark rides bikes are Thomas lost 60 pounds walking and confrontations and 8080 pounds. Yeah. But but you know, when you look at the the tapestry of life and the interconnectedness you just look what happened on the show over the last hour. You know, we have four individuals that really only person I ever met, here was you Dr. Joe first and again on on Zoom, I just want to thank you and your team for having me on this afternoon. And for us to be able to speak so openly and honestly about topics which, you know, I love speaking about. But more importantly, I hope the listeners really have an opportunity to take away one nugget, whatever it might be. And if that one nugget tonight was, hey, I need to have more self compassion and love with me. That to me is so healing to be able to then walk the face of the earth with this, what I'm going to call the tapestry, the web, the 1000s of people that you've that you've met and talked to and spoken to, and gone down the street and seen a guy play a flute and throw $1 in his hat. You know, just take out your wallet and throw $1 in the hat and just have zero expectation of what you're supposed to get in return. And please don't be afraid of those people. Those people are just like you and me. They had moms and dads, when I go out to the people on the street, and I hand him a card I recognize, you know what, it's another soul walking the face of the earth. I need to be compassionate. And the reality is when you understand the story, no matter what it is, you're practicing I am.

Dr. Joseph Shrand
Yeah. Well said, Greg, and so appreciate it. It's it's really wonderful having you on the show. When the next book comes out. Come on back and talk about that as well. You're welcome back any time.

Greg Voisen
Any Well, the next book, I'm gonna write with my son and it will be coming out probably within a year. And it's called the the guru in the mirror. The guru and the mayor, the guru in the mirror.

Dr. Joseph Shrand
Oh, the guru in the mirror. That sounds a lot better actually. Yes,

Greg Voisen
yes. Well, because there's only one person when you look at it. You're your own guru.

Dr. Joseph Shrand
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Okay.

Greg Voisen
You guys are all great. I really enjoyed it. Hey, Mark, send me that link. I want to make a donation. So you know, Oh, yeah. When are you doing it next weekend? If two weekends, two more weeks. Okay, send me Joe's got my email address or you do? Make sure you send me the link so I can make a donation to the cars and how many miles are you riding?

Mark Stiles
So the actual ride is 192

Greg Voisen
Okay, so two days about 100 miles a day?

Mark Stiles
Yeah, I'm we're throwing an extra 100 on the beginning. That's basically 300 miles in three days.

Greg Voisen
So yeah, that's, that's hot damn man. Yeah, who's throwing the 300 on.

Mark Stiles
So we're throwing an extra 100. On the day zero we were talking about so so there's day one and two, it's 100 and 100. And then Day Zero actually gets us to the true border. So it's pan mass. And we always thought we're not really doing the whole state. So we're going back to the border and going to do the whole state.

Greg Voisen
Well, it doesn't surprise me you're doing it. My blessings to you. My energy will go with you as you pedal each pedal, and stroke. I know what it's like. Enjoy the ride, my friend, and more importantly, enjoy what it is that you're doing for others.

Mark Stiles
Yeah. And thank you for that. I appreciate that very much. Hey, welcome.

Dr. Joseph Shrand
Back trail. All right, we'll be we'll be chatting soon.

Greg Voisen
Thank you for listening to this podcast on inside personal growth. We appreciate your support. And for more information about new podcast, please go to inside personal growth.com or any of your favorite channels to listen to our podcast. Thanks again. And have a wonderful day.

powered by

Jeremy is the founder and host of the Create Your Own Life Podcast, which studies the highest performers in the world. He specializes in using podcasting and new media to create trust and increasing leader status. Some of his recognitions are he was named the #1 Podcast to listen to by INC Magazine in 2019, as well as Top 40 Under 40 by Podcast Magazine in 2022.

Along with his wife, he also co-founded Command your Brand Media where in they help visionary founders impact the world and better mankind through the power of appearing on top-rated podcasts.

Aside from these, Jeremy also had recently published his book entitled Unremarkable to Extraordinary: Ignite Your Passion to Go From Passive Observer to Creator of Your Own Life. This book is based heavily on his podcasts where successful individuals from a variety of industries and vocations share their hard-won advice for climbing, and at times even clawing, their ways to the top.

If you want to learn more about Jeremy, you may click here to visit his website. You may also access their company Command your Brand Media’s website by clicking this link.

I hope you enjoy this engaging interview with Jeremy Ryan Slate. Happy listening!

THE BOOK

By telling the story of success through the lens of bestselling authors, hall of fame athletes, platinum recording artists, Indy 500 winners, and even the former CIA director, Jeremy’s self-help roadmap offers readers an opportunity to follow in the tried-and-true footsteps of those who’ve made it.

Hence, Unremarkable to Extraordinary will teach you to:

1. See and use adversity as a tool for growth
2. Not wait to ‘find’ your passion and instead ….
3. Seek the biggest, scariest goals you can imagine
4. Define success on your own terms, not anyone else’s
5. Be the one and only to create and tell your own story
6. They were radically responsible for their own success

THE AUTHOR

  • Host of #1 Ranked, Create Your Own Life Podcast
  • Over 3.5+ Million Downloads
  • 1,000+ Interviews, including Grant Cardone, Kevin Harrington & Danica Patrick
  • Named Top 30 Under 30 in Podcasting for 2022 by Podcast Magazine
  • INC Magazine Top Podcast for 2019
  • Best-selling author of Unremarkable to Extraordinary

 

You may also refer to the transcripts below for the full transciption (not edited) of the interview.

Greg Voisen
Hey, this is Greg Voisen with Inside personal growth. And joining me from all the way on the East Coast is Jeremy Slate. And Jeremy is going to be talking to us about his new book Unremarkable to Extraordinary. You can find that out on Amazon. We'll have a link to that. Jeremy, good day. Yeah, how you doing?

Jeremy Slate
Hey, Greg, I'm doing awesome. And you'll get a good laugh out of this. By the way, you mentioned opposite coasts. So, three hours ago, I walked into my studio cuz I'm like, Alright, I'm ready to talk to Greg. And then I realized it was Pacific Time, not Eastern time.

Jeremy Slate
I walked in, I'm like, I'm like, oh, man, I'm, I'm three minutes late, like he's gonna be so upset with me. And then I realized it was 130, not 1030.

Greg Voisen
What I think my listeners can get out of that story is that you're extremely punctual. And that's a good thing. Well, you know, Jeremy, for my listeners, let me let them know a bit about you a bit about his book, and really who Jeremy is, and then we're gonna get into discussing this. But he has a personal website, which is Jeremy Ryan, slate, SLA t.com, where you can learn more about Jeremy. He also has another website called command your brand.com. And there you can learn about what he does to help people build their personal brand, their profiles, and he does a really good job of it. And he's done in excess of 1000 podcasts. And he's just a man on a mission. He says our mission is we help people to change the world and better mankind through the power of podcasting. And I, my listeners know that as well, because this podcast benefits the homeless, and all we do is go out I personally go out and give away money to the homeless to help them get them off the street and get him something to eat. So I love the cause and bettering mankind is important. Let me let them know a little about you Jeremy Ryan slate is the host of create your own live podcast which studies the highest performers in the world. He studied literally at Oxford University as well as holding a master's in early Roman Empire propaganda from Seton Hall University. He is named number one podcast to listen to by Inc Magazine in 2019, as well as the top 40 under 40 by podcast magazine in 2022. Jeremy and his wife, Brielle, co-founded Command your Brand, a new media public relations agency to help entrepreneurs get their message out by appearing his guests on podcast. He resides in Stillwater New Jersey and is a former competitive power lifter. So he says former but you know, hey, when you look at his picture up there on the website, it doesn't look like former looks like he's still powerlifting he's still powerlifting

Jeremy Slate
Yeah, so here's so here's the funny thing. Like I don't do competition anymore, Greg, but I did last Thursday, i deadlift every two weeks. So I'd last Thursday, I did 575 for a double. So I did 575 for two on deadlift. So I'm still close, man, I'm not that far off. What have I used to compete at?

Greg Voisen
Well, I'm going to, I'm going to refer you to a gentleman who is really big author sold millions of books. And his name is Jim Keeling, and he's down in Atlanta, and he's 60s about my age 68 and the power lifts. And he has videos that he puts up on LinkedIn. And he's, it's amazing for his age when he's powerlifting. I think 400 And something. The guy is crazy good. But I will remind me at the end of this, I'll give you that link. Now, this book is really a great book. And you selected great authors, and I was listening to a few of the podcasts that you had done. And these are personalities for what you call extraordinary stories. Can you tell us the story about selecting these personalities, and why did is important and really was important to you in writing this book, obviously, you wanted to profile these people that you've helped. And there's many of them up there. And you've got quite a few top names too, that have come across your transit. Guy Kawasaki was on the show, many, many moons ago. And I noticed that he's up there as well. So tell us a little bit about that.

Jeremy Slate
It's interesting, because and you've probably seen this since you've done so many interviews as well. Greg, like I find that there's themes that come up again and again and again. And you know, it's very consistent the things I see and what ended up happening is there's so many stories I could have chosen and the reason I chose the ones I did is I felt like the you know each chapter carries one main story and it has a bunch of supporting stories that go with it. I found that those are the ones that make it the most real to the person reading it. Because I think it's really important that I think a lot of the personal development industry, frankly, it takes advantage of people. Because there is, you know, you do have to know what you want, you do have to, you know, associate with the right people, but have a lot of it's about hard work. And it's about consistently hard work for years, a lot of times, and I wanted to give people something that was real, that they could say, okay, I can see how that person did it. I'm going to apply this in my life based on that, right. And I think there's, there's just too much, you know, like, having the right affirmations and stuff like that is important. But that stuff without action is not good, right? You're not going to get what you want to get. And that was really what I came down to him, like, you know, who took action? Who did it at a high level? And what's something applicable to people reading this, because I don't want people to read this and be like, Oh, well, that's great. But I could never do that. I wanted this to be like somebody can see themselves in that position. You know, they see what that person is now. But they could see themselves in the early days of that person's life or experiences that person's life. And then within that, we found smaller stories within the podcast that and I don't mean smaller as in the importance of it. But they weren't as tight with the main theme. But they supported the main theme. And that was kind of how we've selected the extraordinary stories, the small stories within chapters as well.

Greg Voisen
I think what's important with anybody listening right now is that if we were in a movie theater, let's say and I whispered in your ear, really what I find is the stories that are most compelling are the ones that get whispered into my ear. There are people that I can relate to, there's people that I would want to go to the movie with, and share the movie with, right. And I think what you're doing is you're actually whispering in people's ears. What they want to hear from people that in we could call it in this case are real. These are people that have had to struggle have had challenges. There isn't anybody out there who is a success, that literally has been gifted it with a silver spoon in their mouth, even the people who have silver spoons, there's challenges because I work with them as well. Right? So whether it's psychologically emotionally physically, all of these various areas of body mind, health and spirit that you and I are interested in, are part of the makeup of the whole, right. And that's the most important thing. And you know, an extraordinary story, you tell a story of another author named JJ virgin, and I was listening to her as actually, you know, she became this great health coach, I'm gonna call it a health coach. Yeah. And you mentioned that sometimes in life, we can succeed when we really when we're really afraid, because we're working for something bigger than ourselves. For JJ, that was the life of her son, can you share that story with the listeners, and for my listeners, you can actually listen to this podcast up on Jeremy's podcast, but it's podcast 1003. And we'll put a link to it.

Jeremy Slate
But it's, it's to me. And it's interesting, because you get you get feedback from readers about the book and things like that. And this is one of the ones that I hear from people the most about, actually, this story is one that, frankly, I hear back from a lot. And for those people that don't know who JJ virgin is, she's really one of the top people, you know, not just health coaches, but people that's actually you know, she is a New York Times bestseller multiple times, she's certified other people in her way of coaching because it's so different in particular. And she kind of hit this point in her life where she was just about ready to kind of take that leap, right and go from somebody that have been done things well to kind of that next level person, and her son gets hit by a car. And it ends up kind of really just shattering everything she thought she was going to have. And she spends his whole time of him recovering in the hospital. So she's had just signed a big book contract, she had just gotten in advance. And she's sitting in the hospital finishing this book. And she had to keep herself healthy. Because if she didn't, wasn't healthy, then she couldn't see her son. And she couldn't write this book. And she had to write the book because the money from the book was going to pay for his medical care. So it was this really, really big situation. And I think one of the things that happens when you look at this is when you're doing something just for yourself, it's easy to say, you know, I can't get up that early, or I can't make that goal or I can't that target. But when you look at it, and it's like well, my kids are going to suffer or my family is going to suffer or you know, somebody's life I'm going to change isn't going to be changed. I think it becomes much easier to do that because it's not about you, right? Like you're going to take what's easy when it's about you, you're going to avoid what's uncomfortable, it's about you. But when it's about other people you just look at it so much differently. So for her she buckled down she figured out how to build a studio in this apartment that she was renting because she was about to buy a house and I had fallen through because of this whole situation. And she filmed all the videos she filmed that a public television show around it to launch this book. But all of these things that she said, you know, she would not have had the courage to do it, had she not been doing it for her son. And I think I've seen that in my own life, frankly, you know, my mom had a stroke in 2010. And it was, it was one of the hardest single situations that ever hit me in my life. And at that point in time, I was teaching high school, and it made me look at a lot of what I'm doing. I'm like, am I going to make the impact I want to make? Am I going to be able to help my family? Because my dad needs my help. Now, in the way I want to help doing what I'm doing? The answer was no, I didn't know what the solution was. But I ended up working towards that. And I think sometimes when it becomes bigger than yourself, it makes it easier to get things done, if that makes sense. Well, always

Greg Voisen
When you have a purpose, right? Yeah, great, greater than yourself. And that purpose usually starts out with curiosity. You know, I've had Steven Kotler on there many times when we look at these extreme athletes, I'm just finishing, helping write a book right now called the precipice of life about mountain climbers. And it's interesting, the stories, you know, I've interviewed like 25 of the most famous mountain climbers around. And you said, Well, when these events that occurred, like in JJs case, happen, like our son getting hit by the car, you have to take a different course of action, you have to be flexible, you can't be attached to the outcome of what you think that goal is supposed to be, which was to write that book, in this particular way, or to reach that goal in a particular way. I really like what Marshall Goldsmith always has to say in this book called the urine life, you know, one end, there's regret. And on the other end, there's meaning and purpose. But the reality is, is that journey that we journey as individuals goes to the continuum in between, at a time when we have regret, and you can easily get down and negative around the fact that you know, our son got hit by the car, and maybe she told the publisher, no, I'm not going to finish the book, and it isn't going to happen. But she didn't write, she stayed the course in a new direction in a way that she could get there. And I think you state that whatever age you are in life, now is the perfect time to start there. You were a teacher, you just mentioned it. And were you going to kind of do the things you wanted to do. What do you believe that now is always the perfect that now is always the perfect time? Why do you believe that? Because there's a lot of people that are waiting for tomorrow. Before they start, they're like, Okay, something's gonna change. It's gonna change tomorrow.

Jeremy Slate
But there's always a good reason not to when you do that, Greg, right. Like, I remember when I had my first daughter, like, she's, she's gonna be four. Now at that point in time, our business was a different position. And I was not prepared to have a child. But I will tell you like, that was one of the greatest things that happened to me, you know, having that daughter four years ago, and we have our second two years ago. So I think when you're always saying that it's not the right time, like, you're never going to do something, right, it's never going to be perfect. And that's why I think when you're even building a business, I tell people, some of the best advice you can actually do is build something alongside what you're already doing. Because I think too often people like Well, I'm not ready to take the jump yet, I'm not ready to take the jump yet. I'm not ready to jump yet. And if you look at it that way, you're always going to not have enough money saved, or you're not going to have the right connections, whatever it is, but you need to be creating something that as it grows, you get to a point you have to make a decision. So I think when you're looking at that the timing is never going to be right man. But like, it's the I feel like it's an overused phrase, but the phrase is, the best time to plant a tree was 50 years ago right now, right? Because 50 years from now, that tree is gonna be huge. So you have to start somewhere. And you have to kind of will it be you have to be willing to sometimes take a haircut to get there. But I think so many times, if you tell yourself, you're not going to be ready, you're never going to be ready. And I think that's a really, really vital point.

Greg Voisen
Well, I remember Jim Lehrer, in the power of engagement book, Jim was just on here for another one of his books, and he's sold millions of those books, the power of engagement. What do you do, Jeremy, to manage energy. Because the challenge that people have when they're running a sideline, is that sometimes it doesn't work, because they're bouncing between a couple of things. You said, hey, and because I'm not ready to make the shift all at once I come in to slide into this, you know, I'm gonna take it a little bit at a time. But then what happens is they these solopreneurs entrepreneurs, they don't know how to manage their energy, and they burn out, they get burnout somewhere. Right? And then they give up what have you done to prevent burnout?

Jeremy Slate
Well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell you honestly, Greg, like, you know, saying it's perfect is, you know, there's no such thing as perfect. I'll just be honest, you that we don't, when I started this business in 2016, you know, I was working full time at another friend's marketing agency building websites. So I was working at that business from, you know, 830 in the morning until five o'clock at night and you know, building the other business, on my lunch break and also from, you know, five to midnight every night. So like, I will tell you, when you're starting something early, you're going to be putting in a lot more time than you want to be putting in. And energy is going to be a problem. So the thing I've always done since then is I start with fitness first, right? Fitness is a huge component of my life. So I start with the gym first thing in the morning at usually 637 In the morning, I start with Bulletproof coffee every morning. So I'm getting the right kind of fats for my brain to function correctly. So I'm really trying to make sure I handle myself first before I get in a lot of those things is one part of it. The other part about it is though, once you start seeing some success, the way a lot of entrepreneurs and solopreneurs burn themselves out, is they don't figure out how to take those positions or those things that created and turn them into jobs. Right? They haven't figured out how do I hire somebody? How do I make these jobs inhabitable? So what I'm doing is when I'm building something, I'm documenting everything, and that means everything's documented in written form. And since a lot of what I do is on the computer, it's all done in screencast. So they can also take a look at the video and see what I did in the computer as well. And those two things match up. So every time I hire somebody that can actually come on board and inhabit a job, what I find is so many times, a lot of people aren't thinking with that they think of, okay, when I get to this point, I'll hire somebody. But if you haven't created a job, there's nobody to hold that job, if that makes sense. So to me, I'm always documenting, always making positions and making it easier to hire. And it's that type of viewpoint that's taken us from me and one other person building a company to this year in 2022. We have 20 people on our staff, but it's really making jobs that people can inhabit.

Greg Voisen
And so what besides the exercise program? What is your daily journaling, meditation, contemplation look like? I mean, where are you when it comes to keeping your mind as focused as possible? And what are some of the things that Jeremy does.

Jeremy Slate
So for me, it's frankly, just that Fitness First thing, first thing in the day is it's a really big deal. I don't read a ton, I do a lot of audiobooks, I don't do a lot of like written books, I just don't find I have the time for that. At the same time, it's making time for my family, you know, at five o'clock, six o'clock every day, we all go for a bike ride, you know, my two daughters and my wife and everything else. So I don't know that I particularly do anything for my mindset rather than keeping my body right. And, you know, making sure I'm keeping my schedule. Well, that's kind of what's worked well for me. Well,

Greg Voisen
it's important to know because you know, it's not one size fits. All right, so everybody has their own little formula is here. And Jeremy, you state in the book, that adversity is the caterpillar that can coons itself, hidden from the world and slowly becoming its higher level self? Speak with the audience and listeners, if you would about adversity, and why do you consider it the greatest test of a person and we just had a sterling Hawking on here. And his book is called hunting discomfort. He believes if you don't hunt, discomfort, discomfort, it'll haunt you. Okay, so what do you what would you say about adversity because I see adversity as discomfort as well.

Jeremy Slate
Well, the thing you have to take a look at is, I think a lot of times you're gonna see adversity, and people are gonna approach it in a couple different ways. One person is going to say, oh, that's terrible, I'm never going to do that. Another person is gonna say, well, that looks kind of hard. And then the person that that that I want to be in that I strive to be says, Okay, that looks hard, might take a few minutes, think about it, and I'm gonna approach it. Because often what happens is, people don't think of the skills they're going to gain during that the abilities are going to gain during that how they're going to stretch themselves. When you come out of the other side of something very difficult. You're actually a different person. And I think I think fitness is one of the easiest ways to explain that. You know, in my mid-20s, I was bench pressing foreign 50 pounds and squatting over 700 pounds. And people would see that and be like, wow, how do you do that? Like, are you on steroids? Like, what are you doing? And I would say, no, no, I'm 25 years old. And I've been since I was 17. I will give five pounds a week for 10 years. And I think that's what you have to look at the same way as building adversity. Difficult times, build skills, they build fortitude, and they build you into the person you need to be. So I think often people don't think of the experience of going through something for what you're going to become. They just want to become that thing without the pain. But oftentimes, Greg, there's so much pain involved in becoming that you have to want to confront it. A lot of people

Greg Voisen
aren't. So regimen. Let's talk about that. Because, you know, look, if you did five pounds every week from the time you were 17 to get to 400 and something pounds, there's a regiment. Yeah, you know, and a lot of people will just they'll back off when it's like, oh regiment. I don't want to do that. What did you do within your mind, Jeremy, to understand that the connection between the regiment helped you get closer to achieving the goal or the outcome that you wanted to achieve?

Jeremy Slate
One of the things that we start with every year is I start with my goals for the year at the beginning of the year, and I think a lot of People Number one, don't do that. I think it's vital. But we also have sub goals within that of the targets we're trying to hit. And if I can reach those smaller targets, that's going to put me mentally in the right position to be able to handle a lot of things. So that's one of the biggest things is I am a maniacal planner, Greg. So I'm always looking for what am I going to take to hit that target? How am I gonna get past that target? How many people do I need? What kind of budget do I need. So because of that, I'm really able to, you know, work to hit those different, different goals. And because I have waypoints there, I will tell you in my 20s, I didn't have the sub goals, the goal. And that was one of the single most difficult things because you feel like you're never getting anywhere. And that's something being in business with my wife for seven years now was one of the biggest things I got out of it, because my wife is somebody likes to celebrate the wins along the way. Whereas I'm like, you know, this is the big thing I want. I'm not there yet, you know what the heck. So when you learn to do that, you can actually number one you are rewarding yourself, see, think better about it. But number two, you can actually see yourself getting closer to the goal. And honestly, that was a huge change for me, is seeing sub goals on the way to a goal.

Greg Voisen
Well, like proximal goal as they're referred to. And it's been studied by some of the most famous people I've had people that are universities, professors that have written books on goal planning and going missing those proximate goals, proximal, the short term goals that you're attaining are those little wins that you and your wife are actually celebrating together. And so important to celebrate those wins along the way toward the goal. Because then when you achieve the goal, it has much more meaning for you. Okay, it has much more purpose and everybody out there today, given COVID and the circumstances we've been in Jeremy, the great resignation is really around new goals. It's around new things in their life that they want for their life. And you state that nothing in life is given. And then it should be taken and it shouldn't be taken for granted. when an opportunity comes you can't say I wasn't ready. You need to always be ready for the day. That opportunity presents itself because it will What advice would you have for the listeners about grabbing and missing opportunities in life because they do float by as well are by talkies are floating by all the time.

Jeremy Slate
So I talked about this in the book and I think one of the biggest examples of this for any football fans out there in life fans out there think it's Tom Brady. Tom Brady is now a seventh time Super Bowl champion. I think he's like a four time Super Bowl MVP. He's quite arguably the greatest quarterback to ever play in the NFL. And when you look at Tom Brady, yeah, he's six foot four, but he's slow. He doesn't have a big arm. And he doesn't have any of the things you would say like, that guy is going to be a great quarterback. So he barely started his senior year of high school. He had to compete for a starting job and only started half the season his senior year of college at Michigan, then he gets drafted the NFL on the sixth round. And he only plays because the quarterback ahead of him. Drew Bledsoe gets hit by jets linebacker Mo Lewis and literally almost dies in the field. So he gets to then play because of that. And he gets that job and never relinquishes that job his entire career. Now, here's why. Because Tom Brady watched hours of film, hours of film, he could tell what somebody is going to do before they did it. He knew it was happening before those things happened. He practiced better footwork, he practiced better calling, he practices better time with the wide receivers. Because if he got all those sub skills, well, and he was a master at those sub skills. That's actually how you win. Because if you look at a lot of these, number one overall picks, a lot of them don't pan out, there's very few that do. And it's because their whole life, they've been told they're the best. They have had everything easy. They've never had to practice; they just show up and have this natural ability. When you get to the NFL man, like everybody's good. So it's what you have mentally that sets you apart. And that's the difference, right? He showed up every day, like, I don't know, my opportunity is going to come but I'm going to be ready for it. And if you approach anything in your life, you're going to get those times. And they may not look at the opportunities you think they're going to look like but you figure out how to make them into an opportunity. So if you're preparing for your time, and when it comes, you know, that's how you can make the most out of it.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, and you know, I really what you're saying right now to a really interesting story. For those out there who have seen free solo. Basically, he spent 10 years charting his course up El Capitan to do that climb without ropes. Okay. And most think that basically Oh, you know, he just did that. No, he knew every foothold he knew every handhold he knew everything you had to do to climb El Capitan like that. And I think you know, as you see him making notes in his little notebook in the in the Netflix video, it's fascinating. And, you know, just crazy. Most people thought he was just out of his mind crazy, but the reality is, we're talking about Preparation, we're talking about how long it took to prepare to actually do that. Same thing with Brady. You state that life experience and hard work, we're just talking about it can be some of the best teachers couldn't agree with more? Can you share some of the best life experiences and hard work lessons that you've had? And how did it affect your current present life?

Jeremy Slate
That's a really great question. Because I look at it this way. And I don't know what your viewpoint is on this, Greg. But I think like the education system now is a little, you know, not really producing people that can actually do something when they graduate, you know, like, I look at it, and you know, I have a master's degree in history, which was fun, but it's not really like usable, I don't use it. And I think one of the biggest things missing is, you know, you looked at a lot of trades, there's something called an apprenticeship, right? Where you work under somebody for a period of time you get some skills, you get some knowledge, and used to do that a lot of different careers, you know, 150 years ago, but you don't really do that as much anymore, unless you're gonna be a plumber or something like that. So I think experience is, is one of the greatest teachers out there. And it's one of the biggest things missing, because if you look at the knowledge you get in school is a lot of times missing application. So for me, some of the best things that I've learned how to sell, you know, how to sell is one of the most vital skills you can ever learn. And yeah, you can read every book out there, you can go to every seminar out there, but you only learn by doing it right, because you the number of times you've done it, the better you become at it, the less you think the less you actually just do it. So to me how to sell is vital, how to work with other people as like, as a boss, that was not a skill I had early on. So I had to learn, how do I listen to people for what they need? How do I manage people for what they want to get out of it? So I think many times as a boss, we're thinking, Okay, this is what I want the company to do. But your employees are gonna be excited about that to a point, but they're not going to be excited about it unless you can show it how this affects them. So there's so many skills that I had to learn by experience that you just you can't learn in school until you're thrown in that position. So I'm not saying education is a bad thing. But I'm saying one of the biggest things missing is experience and really working under somebody that's had experience

Greg Voisen
it, you know, all these lessons in life, you know, learning lessons that we take along the way, you know, are you going to go through life? Or are you going to grow through life? Yeah. Are you on the learning line? Right? Are you on the line, that's basically you're just coasting, right? And anybody who is on the learning line, continual learners, which is the makeup of 99.9% of all my listeners, because you wouldn't listen to this podcast, if you weren't on the learning line. Every one of us has taken those and use those small, tiny steps every day, to make our life better, and hopefully, to make somebody else's life better. Like what you've done for 20 people, you've given them an opportunity to work for you and work inside of a company, and to grow and help other people in the process. That's your mission. And, and I commend you for that, because that is a great cause. Not that you weren't doing that, as a teacher, you were you know, you were helping students in a classroom. And you

Jeremy Slate
I don't know if I was helping that many students in a classroom and I barely survived. I had soft, my sophomores in high school, and I was not prepared for that.

Greg Voisen
That was a tough gig for you. I can tell. But my wife was a school teacher for 23 years and right home with some amazing stories. And today, you know, here's a here's a great story. We'll go into a grocery store or someplace and they see her. And they stop and say, Mrs. Voice and you remember me, and then she'll go, oh, yeah, because she had, I don't know how many students over the course of 23 years, but lots of students, right. So oh, yeah. Remember, what are you doing? Oh, women, nurse. Oh, I'm in grad school, I'm studying to be a doctor. You know, and the impact you can make just the little things that encourage or inspire someone to take that step is important. And you know, somebody I think, who's inspired a lot of people is Thomas Edison, you tell the story about Thomas Edison, and the correlation to greatness and humility. Can you tell the story and why greatness and humility are great factors for his search for the correct filament light bulb in it must my listeners are no, I don't know if it's 10,000 times but literally, it's however many times he iterated to get to the to the light bulb. It is what it is. But it is a wonderful story. And it exemplifies never giving up. That's what it exemplifies.

Jeremy Slate
Well, it's interesting because when you when you look at it, he tried 10,000 times to finally get that correct filament and a light bulb because it had to burn in that environment and burn for a long period of time. Like he burned he'd find it and they'd burn and go out Are you finding it wouldn't light. So to actually have an incandescent light bulb burn, you had to find out what to do. And they tried and tried and tried. And they said, you know, Mr. Edison, you know, you finally got it on the 10,000 time, why did why did you keep doing it, and he said, you know, I haven't found I haven't found 10,000 ways, I found 10,000 ways that didn't work before I found one that works. So there's also value in knowing what doesn't work, right, because you can apply that in the future. But it's also having the commitment of figuring out like, I'm going to get this done, I don't care how it's going to get done. So, you know, there's also kind of that interesting competition between, you know, Tesla and Edison, as well of like, you know, Tesla's technology may have been better, but Edison was the shooter, businessman. So at the same time, having the end goal in mind is really important to getting there. And being willing to keep showing up every day until you're gonna get there as well is also really important as well.

Greg Voisen
Well, you know, not that long ago, I was reflecting with somebody who actually worked with Steve Jobs. And they said, there couldn't have been a man that was more curious than Steve Jobs, probably one of the most extreme people as relative to curiosity, I always wanting to find out how things work, how to put them together. And I think this this element of curiosity with inside of Edison, you couldn't do what Edison did, if you didn't have a curiosity, a really, really, really strong curiosity, right. And, and I think for all of our listeners, they understand this, but you just mentioned something 10 minutes ago about goals. You know, curiosity then leads to purpose. And then purpose is defined by you then saying, I have a goal. And then setting interim goals, like you mentioned, the short term goals. And then from the short term goals, achieving something of meaning for yourself. So you know, if you take this pipeline down the path, most great achievers have followed, like a five course path from Curiosity, all the way to meaningful goals, but you can't just have curiosity, and then do nothing with it, you've got to have some kind of goal around it. Right?

Jeremy Slate
Well, there's also another point to that too, though, and this is something that, you know, Steve Jobs, and also Thomas Edison have in common. And that's the idea of being unreasonable. When somebody is reasonable, they say, oh, I couldn't do it because of that, or I couldn't do it because of that, or, okay, that's why I couldn't do it. When somebody is unreasonable. They refuse to accept any reason why it can't be done, and just see how it can be done. This is this is an Apple Magic Mouse, right. And when that product was developed, Steve Jobs said, this is how I want it done. This is what I want to look like, this is how I want to function. And they said, Steve, we can't make that product. And he said, Okay, so I'm gonna lock you guys in this room. When the product is made, you guys, you guys, let me know. And I'll unlock the door. So sometimes you have to be unreasonable to offer also foster innovation, right? Like if Edison looked at all these different reasons that he couldn't do it, he would have never tried to do it. So I think at the same time, Curiosity is great. But being unreasonable is vital.

Greg Voisen
A great. And the other thing that Steve Jobs adding to that is he said, guys, when you come in that room, because I've read a lot about him, and I've talked to a lot of people that worked with him. During the course of my interviews here in these podcasts, he literally said, leave your ego at the door. Yep. And that was a really important one, because that's the only way things get innovated. If somebody's got a huge ego, and they're trying to like to control the situation, you're not going to have groupthink, you're just going to have one guy thinking for everybody else. Um, you know, you mentioned that one of the biggest things you've found about extraordinary people is the drive just to make it happen. You just kind of mentioned that most of the world waits for life just to come to them. Alright, it's like, oh, I'm waiting for something to happen to me. Everything has to be perfect before they can take any action at all. Can you speak with the listeners about just going for it? And then sorting things out later? Because a lot of people they don't like the masses. You know, it gets pretty messy when you just go, Yeah, and you don't actually know. Because you can't have a knowing about something that's going from I call the invisible to the visible like the mouse, right, put you in a room. It's invisible. I don't have the mouse. So I gotta draw. And then I got to figure out what goes in it. And then I gotta visualize it, and then I got to prototype it. And then after I prototype it, I've got to build one or two, and then I have to see if it works. And then I gotta take it to the market. You know, all of those things, which can be really quite messy. Speak about it.

Jeremy Slate
Well, I think the thing that's interesting about that is the theme of my podcast is it's called Create your own life. And it's called Create because I see creation as a process. That's Active, it's not passive, right? And you were just talking about, you know, like, not going out there and getting it waiting for it to be perfect. And when you're being active in life, you're actively seeking things, you're not waiting for it to happen to you, right? You're not letting it's not a passive thing. So I think number one, that's kind of the mindset you have to have around it is life doesn't happen to you happens because of you. And it's an active process you create, because there's this whole idea of like, you know, I'm gonna go follow my passion, and I'll never work a day in my life. And I think that's actually really bad advice. I think what you should actually take a look at doing is finding your passion and finding your passion implies you're going to try a lot of things; you're going to do a lot of different things. There was a really great interview I saw with oh, gosh, what is the guy's name that place? Dwight on the office?

Greg Voisen
Oh, I know what you're talking about. I do. Everyone will know when okay, yes,

Jeremy Slate
the guy that plays the white on the dirty guy. He's Yeah. And he was. And he's saying that, like, you know, so many people think about their 20s. And they think they have to have it all together at school, when he goes, you look at it, the 20s is the workshop period, it's when you're figuring it out. It's when you're building skills is when you're doing these things. But you know, your 30s and 40s, you can have it all figured out, and that's fine, or work towards it, or whatever. So I think you have to understand, it's an active process it's doing, you're going to screw up, sometimes you're going to fail sometimes. But you need to look at each one of those things for what I gotta get out of it. And you mentioned as well, this, this idea of, you know, never getting started. If you never get started, then your competitor has got a product selling, they're already getting feedback on how that product was created. And because of that, they're going to stay ahead of you, right, like getting something out into the market, even if it's not perfect is going to create a conversation, it's going to create an ability to do something.

Greg Voisen
Yeah, you know, it's, it's, you know, I default back to this, you know, how I got started this podcast 15 years ago, was, I used to go to big events where there'd be these great motivational speakers. And my son said, well, why don't you start a podcast interviewing them? And I was like, Really, and this was before podcasts were even big. It's like we're talking 1516 years ago at this point. I don't even think there was a handful of people doing podcast back then. But the reality was, is I said, great, you know, and I kind of asked, I'll be honest with you, I said, What's a podcast? You know, because it was in a time period where they just they just weren't known. But now is a way for people to learn and acquire skills and knowledge is just so readily available. And at no cost, no fee, usually right? To get there. And we've we whoever the ground breakers are, I've kind of revolutionized this. And it's important that I think, did you hear these different perspectives along the way, like what you have in the book, what you've got on your podcast, show what I have on my podcast show? And find out what you're curious about. If you're curious about go find it, I got to do is type it in Google Search, and one of us is gonna pop up. Now, towards the end of the book, you speak about conversations with General David Petraeus, who was retired four star US Army General and public official. We all know who he is. Can you share with our listeners, the lessons and inspiration that you got from that conversation?

Jeremy Slate
Well, one of the biggest things I learned is he talked about early on when he was you know, kind of first becoming an officer and he was he was an aide to a he was a two star General Jack, I forget his last name, but its name escapes me. But he was in working with us General Jack at the time. And he said, the thing that was interesting about this guy is you know, he wasn't one of these guys that look at the 50 metals on my chest. And you know who I am, you know, where's my drink? Where's my cigarette, where's all these different things? He was somebody that he learned how to individualize leadership for each person he needed. And a lot of times if he needed something, he'd get it himself, right. He'd get his own drink, he would, you know, he was a servant leader in that way. And that was something that really taught Petraeus how to lead and he frankly, think that's one of the biggest reasons he was able to rise up the ranks like he was to four star general, because he said, there's so many personalities that you deal with in the military. And they all think, you know, I'm better than you because of this and look at how many medals I got because of that. But he learned how to serve people. And he learned how to get the men really interested in him. And I'm reading a book right now. It's called Washington by Ken cheer Tao. And they talk about George Washington during the revolution. And one of the biggest things about him was they were better leader. There were better generals than him. There were people that had more insight than him, but he could get the men to support him like nobody else because he was a servant leader. And that's similar to what I saw from Petraeus, you're like you can get people to follow you even if you're not the best if you learn how to come to them in the way that they need. And frankly, when you can kind of bring that kind of energy to back together, you're gonna be able to create some incredible things because you can bring to you Other the best. And to me, that's one of the biggest lessons. Another thing he talked about as well as this idea of journaling, and actually like writing out your thoughts and working them out on paper and finding out, is this a good idea is this bad idea? Like, how should I use this. And it's something I've done a little bit more since then and helping to work out a lot of my own thoughts. But the two biggest things I learned from him; we’re learning how to lead in an individualized level. And also, you know, the importance in journaling.

Greg Voisen
Well, the Greenleaf model of servant leadership has been around for a long time. And it's an inverse pyramid. And it basically where most people think that the people underneath them should serve them, just flip it upside down. And really, you're serving the people in your organization. So the 20 people that are there, but it's not only are you serving them, as you said, it's how you serve them, you know, with strong morals and humility, and the kinds of things that you need to have the characteristics of a leader. Most people who have those same values are going to be attracted and will follow. Yep, not only will they follow, they'll make more of a contribution. Because this is really around contribution. All those 20 people that work for you, I think, probably emulate and are really honored to kind of work with somebody like you, I can see it that it would be a wonderful place to work. Now, Jeremy, your book is filled with these extraordinary stories. And the stories are a great way for people to learn. And there's takeaways, if you were to leave the listeners with one or two single takeaways, what would you like to have them take away from the book that's actionable, that they literally could integrate into their life or take action on today, that would make some change in their life positively, to affect something that they're trying to reach or get to, or grab or whatever that might be?

Jeremy Slate
Well, it's, it's interesting, because I find the simplest changes are actually the biggest ones, right? Like if you can make simple things happen leads to bigger things. And the one we spoke about is there's a really great book out there by Cal Newport called so good, they can't ignore you. And he talks about finding something you're good at and continue to get better at it. And you know, that's where you become passionate. It's the idea, it's this the same idea of finding your passion versus following your passion, finding your passion employees, your implies you're doing something. So to me to want to be passionate about something before you've done it experienced it worked at it and gotten good at it like it's putting the cart before the horse. So if you can figure if you can, if you're willing to put in the work to find something you're good at and continue to get better at it, you're going to find passion in that I think that's really important. The other thing as well is realizing that opportunities in life come in different shapes and forms. And many times you have to be willing to create your own opportunities, because it may not be exactly what you're looking for. But if you can figure out how to position it correctly, turn it a little bit, open that hole a little bit wider, you can make it the opportunity you need it to be but opportunities in life come all the time, you just don't always know they're gonna look at. So those would be the things I would say.

Greg Voisen
Those are really wonderful takeaways, too. And for my listeners, I will put a link to Jeremy's web sites plural. We'll also put a link to Amazon to unremarkable to extraordinary, that's the book itself. The other thing, Jeremy, you know, and just the energy that you carry, it's so important. The way that people carry themselves, you were talking about sales earlier. And one of the things you should learn how to do is to sell. It's, it's persuasive. The way that somebody carries energy and of itself, how they enter a room, how they appear on a podcast show how they literally do these things that get people to want to hate taking action, as you said, right? Early on in this it was really about how we're going to take these actions toward these goals, that five pounds of discipline every week from the age of 17, all the way to your age now so that you're lifting, 500 and something pounds. And I just want to commend you for the good work that you're doing. Or helping people with their brand for helping people bring out these positive individuals that have something meaningful to say, and to have put that into a book. And also to have continued this podcast series, which is great. So we'll put a link to the podcast as well. And again, kudos to you kudos to all the great work you're doing. Anything else you want to leave our listeners with.

Jeremy Slate
I would just say like take action, right? Don't wait for life to happen to you. And if you can be someone that turns life from, you know, a passive process to an active process, you're gonna be in better shape than 95% of people out there.

Greg Voisen
Good point to make. No mistake to you Jeremy. Thank you. Appreciate having you on inside personal growth and appreciate all of your wisdom and insights. And again for all of my listeners will have links to his podcast we'll have links to his websites plural and we'll also have link to his book on Amazon thanks Jeremy

Jeremy Slate
Hey, thank you so much for having me.

powered by