Well, welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. This is Greg Voisen and the host of Inside Personal Growth. And joining us again for another podcast is author, Dustin Dunbar. He was previously on a podcast about a book he called Your Doing Great and other Lies Alcohol Told Me, and we'll put a link to that podcast as well. But we're here to talk about a new book that he wrote.

The each of you and in the show notes should be able to see it. It's so new that he doesn't even have a copy to to show everybody today. But it's called her Holiness. And I find every time I speak with doesn't, it's something new. Plus, you're going to have to check out his website. He is also going to run for president.

So you're looking at potentially the the new president of our country on the other side of the screen. I think that's really cool. Dustin, you're letting this, all kind of match together and it's good. And he just got back from a whirlwind tour over in Romania with his daughters. And Dustin, good day to you. How are things?

Things are wonderful. Thank you so much for having me on. It's great to be here. Well, it's great to have you on again and to talk about this new book. And also we're going to guide the listeners, to your new website is going to be called What Is It again? You said that Dustin Dunbar usa.com testing done by usa.com a little bit about Dustin.

Now I'm gonna let him talk about it. And we're going to get into Her Holiness which this is a novel. It's really a compelling novel. And we'll get there. But Dustin grew up he says poor and Midwest America with the abusive, alcohol addicted father and grandfather. And he vowed never, to be like them, which he hasn't, devouring psychology books and researching addiction.

In his 20s, he earned a doctorate and psychology, and believed at that time he had broken his family chains. So in 2009, he was handicapped, or I should say, he was handpicked by Ryan Seacrest to be on LA shrink. Which actually never made it to the airwaves, he said. But it was a pilot series. He said after drinking moderately and responsibly and socially for 20 years, he too became addicted to alcohol.

And he's overcome those addictions. He's now living in Solana Beach with his two daughters, and he is a heck of a writer. So look, let's jump gears here. Let's shift gears, because this book, to actually write a book like this, you had to be really interested in the feminine energy. Let's face it, because this is all about the feminine energy.

And in her Holiness, you tackle one of the most controversial topics in organized religion. And that's the women's ordination in the Catholic Church. Now, you were waiting for this new pope to actually be, and they call it ordained and put in place. And the smoke signal coming out and in Italy, and I remember talking to you several times on the cell phone.

Oh, we're waiting, we're waiting, we're waiting for the new pope. And this new pope is really, really a very compelling figure. And I think a really cool guy. We knew it wasn't going to be a nun when it was coming up. What compelled you to write about this particular issue and why? Now, at this stage in our history as a country and a world?

Yeah. So 2012, I was in I was living in Italy, and I walked by a newspaper stand and it said that the archbishop of Milan was on his deathbed, and he was one of those that lived super modestly, never took any extra money, never had anything. And he criticized people for, you know, if they were driving nicer cars and stuff, if there were priests.

And so everybody really respected him, and he was absolutely on as going off on the Catholic Church about how they're 200 years out of date and late and needing to get with, society and break the old chains. And immediately when I heard that, I was like, what, 200 years out? I mean, that's like we're we're talking way in the future, what is going on?

And so the first female pope just absolute was like a bolt of lightning. And it came through me. And the name Her Holiness was right there at the very beginning. And so this has been a 13 year adventure, getting this out there and then. Yeah, for the timing to be where we just transitioned, you know, from I love Pope Francis and everything that he did, to Pope Leo.

And so it's the first published novel out there with Pope Leo as part of it and in it. And I definitely include him and, you know, talk about that as well in the future. What's happening? So but the whole thing is just empowering women, women in general have now, you know, in business and in sports, we're seeing them just absolutely take off.

And that divine feminine energy is, is rising. And so the next step in our consciousness, in our human consciousness is to everybody say, okay, they're spiritually equal. You know, why are we so, afraid I think is the word of, of women in leadership roles in religion. And it's just this old school thinking of gender has has the hierarchies through gender.

And, one of the things I say a lot is genitalia has absolutely nothing to do with spirituality. And we need to get that consciousness that higher level consciousness where we're seeing through those old school, you know, roles. And I do see this as a it's just a positive thing that is happening in our, our human consciousness. And we're now going to breakthrough, soon and see that happen.

And, you know, of course you can. I think you're right. And and I'd like to add, you know, the Piscean era was, it is is transitioning to an Aquarian era, right? We've talked about this for a long time, but, you know, you personally were influenced, being brought up in a household, very strong women who you say inspired this work.

Can you tell us about a specific moment or conversation? That planted the seed for Kate's story? Like, you know, where did that occur? When did that occur? The character in this book, by the way, for my listeners, is Kate Murphy. So you have some interesting characters in the story, but the reality is, is Kate is the main one.

Yeah, Kate's the main one. And I based her pretty much on my grandmother, who was 63 years that she taught Sunday school every Sunday. She missed like two, you know, and 63 years. And she was the most kind spirit full, loving person, that I have ever come across. And the whole time I'm like, how can it be, you know, that the men in the in the church and stuff can be have these higher leadership roles whenever they can't even hold a candle to her light?

She was the embodiment of what we consider like, love and peace and joy and all these things. And so even at a very young age, that's what kind of sparked it is like, wait a minute, that's not right. And so I've always had that inside of me and it's because of her. And then of course, my mother, very strong spiritual woman as well.

And they're from Oklahoma. So they're it's not is they're also very grounded, you know, they're simple and and grounded and just incredible people. And it's like we as men have like literally how many times have you ever heard two men sitting around talking about empowering women? And right now that's what we're doing. And it it feels great. So I you know, a lot of times these, these conversations get into a lot of theology and what Jesus said about women being in the church, what the apostles said, you know, all this other stuff.

And my whole thing is how does it feel for men and people and just everybody to to empower women? And for me, it feels incredible. It gives me so much joy and, and I'm just uplifted anytime that I pick people up, especially any kind of minorities. You know, me being white, straight, American and, and I've had all these privileges in my life.

And what really makes me feel good is to help others who don't have, you know, the privilege that I have. Well, I what are the things that you truly are attempting to get across here? Is this whole uplifting of the feminine energy across the board, right. And for people to really embrace it versus resist it. And if anybody's resisting it, it's probably more, as you said, the white male more, you know, hey, we're being undermined by a woman CEO or a woman in some spiritual position or whatever, which is their perspective.

They have the right to it. But the point is, is that the feminine energy is a healing energy. And you say Kate Murphy in the book is such a compelling protagonist. She's mystical, she's determined, but she's also deeply human. Just like you said about your mother and your grandmother. How did you balance writing her supernatural abilities with keeping her relatable to readers?

Yeah. That did. That was very tricky, and I just kept using up my own meditations. Whenever I meditate, I have visions and things that come to me that I'm like, I, that is not me, that is not from me. It's whenever I really go in and I'm deep and I'm clear, my mind is very clear. And there's I'm literally in basically like space and everything silent.

And then these, these creative visions and things come to me. And so she that so I don't really consider it supernatural. I actually consider it very human that we use very little of our brains and we're, oh, we over thinking so much. We're just like analyzing everything all the time. If we can sit still and be quiet and be silent and do that for a long periods of time, the amount of creativity and wisdom that comes through to us is, I guess you call it supernatural, because it's not from this world.

And, and that's, that's kind of that balance. And so it's, it's really from my inner, stuff and just, you know, visualizing different places and history and what could happen in the future at all. It all just came through me. It wasn't really anything that I felt like I did. Well, I'm glad you brought it up because, you know, that's a strong connection with the inner voice, with an intuition which is coming from a higher for source.

And I know that's what you think and believe, and I am tracking with you 100%. I agree with that. And it's it's a bit unfortunate that we live in a world today where, our perspective, if I put a picture of Dustin Dunbar right up in front of his nose, things are kind of blurry. And Dustin, for many people, I wouldn't say this is you.

They just keep running from it. They never move away from the picture to truly see who they are because they're, they're they're almost afraid to make a connection with themselves. Right. I don't know if that analogy, relates to you, but the reality is, when you're drinking that Dustin Dunbar out his nose against the picture he didn't even know Dustin was until Dustin pulls back to get a perspective and really see truly who Dustin is, that the picture becomes really clear.

Oh, wow. You know, I'm this really good guy. I'm this really, passionate person. I'm this great writer, I'm this whatever. So I'm telling people, take a step back from the blurriness in the fog in your life, that you've created. Because alcohol creates fog and it creates fuzzy brains, and we make bad decisions until you get to where Dustin is now.

This relationship between Kate and Dubai is beautifully complex, especially given their mutual calling to the priesthood. How did you navigate writing a love story within the constraints of religious vows? Because, hey, when you take priesthood, you're saying you're going to be celibate, at least in the Catholic Church. Now, that doesn't mean so in many of other churches when in the Catholic Church.

That's true. Yeah. This is another part of the 200 years out of date. And for me, you know, sexual energy is the number two energy on the planet. Love is first. That's always number one. Number two, that if you start repressing sexual energy, you're going to have issues, you're going to have problems. And we saw it with all the preda file, the priests and pedophilia and things like that.

And that's exactly what happens whenever that force is repressed. So much. And so what I am saying is that it should be a choice. There's so many people I know who are devoted. They're like, no, I just, I that's not for me. I, I want to just me and God universe, you know, we're we're tight. We're I'm married to that.

And I'm like, that's wonderful. Great I, I respect that completely. But they at the at the same time it we shouldn't repress those and make them who are really devoted to God to the universe and want to be priests, but they also want to, you know, be married and and go to and have children and things like that.

So it's just another one of those things of the 200 years out of date. And that's just my take on it. And I just think that we would have so much, more health in mental health, sexual health, in inside the church. And all of this is to make us better and, and, and whenever I say Catholic Church to I'm talking about Muslims, Jewish Buddhists, I'm talking about across the board.

They all, you know, women have been put down in religion forever. And it's like, wait a minute. You know, you look at, Prophet Muhammad, peace be unto him and what he stood for. You know, in 600 AD, he was an absolute feminist. I mean it across the board and which a lot of Americans don't know that at all.

And he he said that women should be able to choose for divorce. They should own property. They should get the inheritance. They should have all the rights. And and then the men at the time were just absolutely laughing. I mean, women were property, period, you know, and and the Christian faith too, at that time. And women didn't even get to, you know, in, in America where we're talking about so 600 ad is when and when Muhammad was doing that.

So it wasn't until 1400 years later, basically that equal rights, you know, 1975 is when equal rights for women starts. So for the Muslim side to be when we see on the videos and stuff of of men beating women and, you know, the headscarves and making them do all this stuff, it's like, wait a minute, for me, that's not really being a true Muslim.

That is, you know, men power and ego and all this greed and stuff like that. So for me, the true Muslims and I have I have a lot of friends who are true Muslims, and they are like, absolutely we should women should choose to wear the headscarf if they want to and be equal spiritually. And education, you know, I think there's some countries like Pakistan that aren't allowing women to be educated.

And I'm just like, how can you be calling yourself a follower of Prophet Muhammad and be doing that? It's just the you have a different perspective. I mean, your consciousness around spirituality and religion. And to me, they're they're kind of separate religion is very pragmatic. It's very, I do want to say by the book where spirituality is something that's expansive, right?

One is contracting, the other is expansive. And it it goes along with the times, because in those times we were trying to control people today, you know, I don't believe religions can be used to control because the consciousness of the globe has expanded and people have expanded, to that. And it always reminded me of Mother Teresa. You know, I remember this story from many times, I think somebody with a protesting group, and you've probably heard this story many times yourself, asked her if she would protest against I can't remember exactly what it was.

And she said, because of her feminine energy, if I can't be for something, I don't want to be against it. No, I won't protest, but I will be. I will rise up to be in favor of something, right? Like, hey, I'm not against this. So she was trying to stay with that is I'm not for, being somebody who's against something that would be a great example of feminine energy, okay?

Versus the male side of it. I'm against it. I'm going to raise arms. I mean, if ever I'm going to be. So you bring in a character, Father Kelly from Rome to compare body is fascinating. What drew you to explore how institutional betrayal affects the individual faith? Because this was a kind of a shift in book. It was a fascinating way for you to portray it.

So explain to the listeners what this was all about, what Father Kelly? Yeah, he is one of the the powerful, priests in this. And he, of course, has his issues, just like any human on this planet. And I this he's one of the guys that for me, it shows absolute humanness and has. But is is that powerful masculine energy and so a you know, I don't want to give too much away.

But he's a obviously a critical part in Cade's life. And so there's some there's some funny scenes with him too, where there's a lot of humor going on. But yeah, as far as the institutional, I try to let the reader just do their own, you know, opinions on the. Yeah, not explain, the art too much.

It's like, you know, I feel like I've created a abstract painting. And you feel him abuses. Yeah. What does this mean? Know, like. Well, what does it mean to you? Yeah. You're like this to me. This man, I said, that's perfect. And I think that's the most important thing when you're reading a novel is you want to, you want to encourage people's imagination.

You want them to imagine what could be. And so this book is about imagining what can be and leaves you with questions about what really could be. And the book required extensive knowledge of Vatican politics, Catholic history, and church lore. What was your research process like, and how did you uncover anything? Or did you uncover anything that was surprised you?

Yeah. So growing up in Oklahoma, a typical week for me would be to, you know, Wednesdays were at the Pentecostal Catfish Fry Friday is where at the Southern Baptist, you know, dance. Saturday evening. I'm at Catholic, you know, mass with my friends. And then Sunday morning, I'm with my grandma doing Bible study. And so that's just how it was growing up in Oklahoma.

And I look back at that and I'm like, that's a lot of religion. That's, you know, wonder. You wonder, when are you took up drinking? Yeah, yeah. But I, I just, I just it was just a way to socialize, you know, there was, it was for, you know, football. And then there's church and that's socialized and it's kind of just the culture of it.

And so I just always heard all these different stories. It's funny because you go to one church about and there would be the it'd be like Easter time and you'd hear, you know, the version of the Southern Baptist, and then you'd hear the Catholic, and then you hear the Pentecostal, you know, like, wait, it's the same thing that happened, right?

Cause I'm hearing different stuff in different ways. So it was just always super interesting to me. And then, you know, getting older, I just loved everything to do with spirituality was just always this incredibly in consciousness studies and psychology and all that. But I lived in Italy and I was able to really, you know, go to the Vatican, go and be on the bridges that I talk about, be, you know, there.

And of course, you know, today's research compared to back in our, our days of, or those note things that we had to use the Rolodex and Stone Rolodex. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the research that makes it a lot easier. But just like Dan Brown, whatever. You know, he's writing his stuff. I felt like it took an army of people.

Is what he said to to create, you know, his his books. And same thing with this. I had so much help, so much editing help people to be like, that's not right. This isn't right, Ali. Oh my gosh. I like going back and forth. So I had tons of help as well. Well, one of the things you mentioned to me and you wrote into the email is that you wanted to get to the imbalance of this patriarch and how we have to stop, this over aggressiveness and the way we do this.

Right. Through the rise of the divine feminine energy within all of us. Now, I've been told many times that I have a pretty good balance between feminine and masculine energy. I mean, look, we can talk about archetypes. We can get in all kinds of things. But, you know, you being a psychologist and having studied this, you know, the reality is, is that when somebody is born male, they're conditioned in all of those ways that a male would be conditioned when someone's born female, they are as well.

What would you say based on the character Kate and this book, that at the true root of this, you want the reader to walk away with? Yeah, the inside of us. We are infinite beings and cannot be labeled. So the big thing is Carl Jung, who, you know, the legendary psychologist, he talked about the anima and the animus.

And so men have an energy inside of them. That is anima, which is the female energy that we're talking about. And if we if we go too far with the male energy, we're we're super aggressive. We're attacking. We're you know, expansionist in politics and nations, and let's go and kill everybody and get more and more and more. And it's this, there's greed.

And, you know, corporations and things like that. And then if we get in touch with our, you know, female energy, that is where the compassion and the love and the caring and the nurturing comes in, and we can balance. We can be balanced as and it takes individuals to start this. We each need to look at ourselves and say, okay, am I too passive?

Meaning do I have too much anima going on, you know, and then or am I too aggressive where I have the math skill and energy going on and and for me, in my life personally, I've gone through both. I've literally been where I'm like, oh, I'm sorry, that was my fault. And I didn't mean to. And, you know, just like this and I'm like, wait a minute, I have feelings.

And the whole time I was being super passive and then but I didn't speak out and say, it's only my feelings. And so then it would come out in aggressive, you know, form the passive aggressive forms. And that's what I want people to really just start looking at themselves and say, am I balanced? Am I do I go whenever things really go bad and somebody is attacking you or something's not right, do you go inside and say, what am I feeling?

And then communicate that in a calm manner instead of in a not communicating because you're too passive or big coming out and attacking through anger, you know, and being too aggressive. And so if we can, we can get into that really good balance that Carl Jung talks about. That is the integrated self and that is a whole person.

And so I'm not saying, you know, you're going to be Buddha or like this enlightened being, but I'm what I'm saying is now I feel whole and I feel it's such a beautiful place to be. But it does take personal development and it takes a lot of going within. And like you said earlier, looking at yourself in the mirror without the blurriness and really taking a hard look, well, the guru in the mirror is you, you know.

Yeah. So the reality is the God lives within all of us. That's my personal philosophy. I know, you know, look, the religion is done, I think, and I may have said this before, but my listeners have heard it more to divide us than unite us. And I again, we that's what you're speaking about here is. No we have to be a we are not an eye or a them, right.

We have to be about us, about we how do we come together? And the feminine energy does more to actually perpetuate that, to build that community, to have the love and compassion and support, you know, and your book doesn't shy away from depicting corruption within religious institutions. We've seen plenty of it. Okay. And it doesn't it wouldn't matter if it was, Tammy Faye and whoever the other guy was that had stole all the money from the church, and he ended up in prison or this recent guy who just got, pardoned by Trump, who was in the news, had his own little religious thing going, how do you balance criticism of

the church with respect for genuine faith? And believers? Yeah, I'm I'm a huge I love the Catholic faith in the Catholic Church. And you'll notice and in the novel, they'll be they'll kind of little like incense burners, smoke and details about being inside of old European churches and, and just all of the history and the tradition and if you take it, any religion, you know, at its core started with love.

And so if we can focus still on the love and get out and get into that feeling and, and get out of that theology of, of these ancient texts and, and trying to, you know, translate this Aramaic and all these different languages into our language, first of all, and then trying to understand exactly what all they say and all this stuff, my whole point is, do the religion, be Catholic, be Jewish, be all these things, but focus on the love and that energy that's inside of you.

And that's what all like Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, and all the saints, all the gurus, every mystic, they all say that you have this jewel, this, this, this energy that is infinite and that is eternal within you. And you are it. You are. You are part and parcel of that. And that is the whole thing that I'm trying to get to is we can do all the traditions.

We we can do everything, but we are equal in that energy that is within us. And we need to strip away that gender roles and allow women to be leaders in all religions, equal to men. You know, you you bring up, something that I'm just flashing on just recently I, I had Matthew Fox on here, was an ordained priest, theologian has written 30 books about the church, and he wrote one about the Dao of Thomas Aquinas.

And in that, book it what he said, if you would really read what these people were saying, they're actually reflecting on much of what you are saying today, but it just fell on deaf ears. People would not listen to it because they were so swayed, brainwashed, whatever it might be, whatever you want to say, it. But he said to have that even that freedom with their sexual energy like you just talked about, and he had to cover it in the way he wrote it, but he did write it way back there.

And, Thomas Aquinas. So I think it's important that there were many leaders during that time who attempted to make changes in the, the, the churches. Okay. It's been happening for a long time, but they weren't successful 100% just kind of chipped out it a little bit, a little bit at a time. Certain things started to change.

And I think with this new pope, we're going to see some more changes in the Catholic Church. At least it seems that way. And I really like his style. Now, you said that. And we'll talk about this at case famous line about organization coming down to a penis certainly causes controversy in this fictional world. What statement were you making about how we, discussed gender equality with that?

Yeah, it's basically really simple that, like I said at the opening, that genital Mia has nothing to do with spirituality. Zero. We have to get away from that consciousness. That is a lower level archaic consciousness. And anybody who is getting into the mystical realms of spirituality realizes quickly that you're in the, there's the it's not of this world.

It's not, you know, male, female. This is an eternal, energy, if you will. And even all the quantum physics, you know, scientists have proven that we this hand here that I'm showing right now is 99.999% space. The trees, everything. Everything that's physical is 99.99% space. And again. And so we're we're our egos are sitting there, you know, looking at things and going, oh, it's this and it's analytics and this and this and this and but the reality, the biggest reality with a capital R is that universal energy.

God whatever. Whatever you want to call that. And the higher power, and that's where we've got to be sitting there. Go and stop with the genitalia, you know, and saying that they're lesser than or they can't be this and, it's tradition. It's like, let's go. Let's give women their proper due. They waited way long enough, to have the respect that they they deserve.

And as men, we all need to honor that. And as a religions as well. Well, and I and I think you do a good job of portraying what needs to change, you know, or at least opening up questions in the reader's mind about exploring what they want to change about themselves and what they would choose to worship, how they choose to worship, and how this would play out in their wanting to become more compassionate.

But in the process of this, you created this intricate web of characters from Brazil to Cambodia to the Vatican City. You know, I don't think you could have gone further. And I think a lot of the people listening who will pick up this book and read it. How did you manage such a large international cast while keeping this story focus?

Now, I know you said I meditated and stuff would come to me, and you literally got much of this through a download. It wasn't you. It was this download that kept coming to you. And obviously it was your own consciousness being guided by a higher power that was saying, hey, this needs to have an international setting. And so I'm just curious, was that really the reason?

Yeah, absolutely. The and having lived in a bunch of different countries, I've lived a year at a time in different places, you know, from Latin America to Asia to Thailand to South Africa, Italy and Spain and all these different spots around the world. And you get into that culture and you realize quickly that we're all one. And this whole idea that we're separate and it's just such a, such an ego, you know, myth of of separate nations, separate people, separate races, separate genders.

It's just goes on and on and on. All of this whole it's what I call the separation shit show. And, and so it's like we got to get into the higher level of consciousness and that's a, that's a universal level. And it's so it's all the people. And it was the, the writings. I say that, you know, and Catholicism is the one I picked for, for this and, you know, is her holiness and the first female pope.

And it came to me and all that. But, it's more of a definitely an international universal type book. But and what I was going for and trying to get the whole everybody on the planet to take a look at this and say, hey, yeah, let's raise women up is the best thing we can do for ourselves.

And it's not it's not solar energy. It's not, you know, natural mineral resources. It's not all these other things that we're trying to get for, you know, extra things to help us out as humans. And if we can just tap into that one thing that we haven't really tapped into is, for me is the divine feminine and that divine feminine energy.

If we can stop being afraid of it and believe me, I understand that it's powerful. If we raise women up, they are going to be powerful. I mean, we can we can see, pieces of that. And so as men, we have to say, yes, let's do it. And it's going to make our world so much better, though.

That's the whole point, is that in the huge big picture, if we do this, yeah, there'll be some knocks and things like that, and but I guarantee you it's going to be the best thing we can do for the planet. For our. Oh, definitely. It's. Yeah. I mean, if you look at the what's wrong with the planet and and humans right now, and it's this imbalance and that's what we're talking about.

The imbalance of patriarchy has gone way too far. It's been going on for a long time now of of aggression, wars, attacking. We have to get into our divine feminine energy. The Carl Jung talks about and get in there and really heal that attacking. You know what I call like expansionist. You know, you see Putin expanding into Ukraine and you're like, really?

He's got he's got two times the landmass that USA has and all the, you know, resources and all this stuff. And he still needs more. And you're like, what in the what? And he's got billions of dollars. You know, he grew up super poor and he's billions and billions. And it's like you just want to be the absolute king of the Soviet Union again, you know, or something like that.

And you're just like, is that it's that masculine attacking. We've got to put a stop to it. We've got to, you know, say that enough is enough. Whatever. Whenever that starts. Well, these, these wars, these inner wars that are fought with leaders inside themselves, you hope you would see some softening and some shifts in the consciousness of the individuals who've been elected as leaders as they live through events, which they're crafting and they're having big decisions in their life.

You know, look at Trump's recent attack on Iran. You know, that is a story that will play out for the rest of his life, right? I had the balls to go take some big B to 52 bombers and bomb out this because we didn't want to have this in our life. And I think diplomacy and sitting down and doing ceasefires and things that are productive.

So we're not losing as many lives can be really well done with women. So, you know, this book explores the tension between tradition and progress that exists in many institutions, governmental institutions, corporations, businesses everywhere, not just religious ones. What broader message do you hope readers are going to take away? From Her Holiness? That hopefully they wake up?

Yeah, that we can live on a planet that is that is mentally healthy, spiritually healthy, physically healthy. This is within our reach. And we can live in a peaceful world and in harmony with other cultures, other nations, other races, other genders. It's all about us as individuals going inside and and feeling our feelings and then communicating them in a in a compassionate way instead of coming out with anger that we've done so much of in the past.

And that's what I hope people really, you know, take away from, from reading it and, and just it's that future vision that we can all kind of hold it and say it's, it's okay that women, become spiritually equal. That's, that's really the end result of this. Well, the thing I would recommend you on is it it was, you know, you got this download, you spent all this time and if I went back and did, a histogram on you, right.

And I said, hey, you know, here's where, Dustin Wise, you know, he, he grew up with these grandparents and these parents and this and the influences that you have, and you've decided to kind of really morph when you think about it, what you, you wanted to depict a story like, here's grandma, I teach a Sunday school.

Great story. Here's mom who was super religious and spiritual, and all you've done now is from the masculine energy is really give it a voice, and you've done a really good job in giving her holiness a voice. And I'm happy for that because there aren't enough novels like this out there. And I think, you know, like you said, we don't need to debate this anymore.

The reality is we need to kind of let go and and let me. And we don't need to fight that energy which men have fought for a long time. You know, who's going to be better? Whatever. We need to learn to learn to agree with it. And if anything, live in harmony with it. Live in harmony with it.

And don't give resistance to it. Thanks for being back on the inside. Personal growth. Are there any last messages you want to leave with you? Because in our listeners, yeah, shout out to Sister Theresa Kane in 1979. She wore blue armband and I got one on here. I know there's a podcast and everything, but I know all of my videos and interviews and everything like that.

I'm going to be wearing the the blue armband in the novel. You'll see that, she, you know, the history of that is that she had 50 other nuns protested in 1979 against Pope John Paul the Second whenever he came to America, they were American nuns. And they were, saying that we want the women's ordination to happen and of course, denied it, denied and denied it.

But, women are going to give up. And it was especially now that men are starting to get behind them. This is going to happen. And it's just one of those things. So, you know, everybody out there look for the blue armband stuff to start popping up here and there. I think it's going to be a worldwide movement.

And it's not just towards the Catholic Church. It's towards raising women up spiritually. And empowering them. Finally. And, and then this planet can do some serious healing. Well. And for my listeners, you worm to go to you, you've got a website destined hyphen dunbar.com. Or is it destined? Right. Yeah. So Dustin Dunbar usa.com. And then also social media channels it's Dustin Dunbar USA okay.

And we'll make sure that we put that in because one of those is a new website. And the one the new one is Dustin Dunbar USA. That right. Correct. Com. Yes. Okay. So we'll make sure we put that one up there. We'll put a link to Amazon to the book. I want to let our listeners know if it's not out when you're listening to this.

Podcast. The audible book version is coming and it will be up at Amazon soon. So if you're somebody who likes to listen to books instead, you can get the audible version right now, there's a Kindle version, and there is the regular version of the ebook paperback version that you can get. Dustin, thanks for being on insight Personal Growth again, and sharing a lot about your own personal story, which led to influencing you writing this book and, helping people open up to what's possible with the feminine energy.

Thanks so much. Thanks, Greg. And oh, it was great to be here and then thank you. Just for raising consciousness as well. It's what the world needs the most. I appreciate it. I've been doing it for 18 years. I always wonder when it's going to click. In other. I might take a minute. A minute? Yeah, well, I may or may not still be here when?

That minute. Okay. You can do come back. Come back another life and keep doing it. Thanks, buddy.