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Welcome back to Inside Personal Growth. This is Greg voisen most of inside personal growth. And on the other side of the screamo screen over there at Cosmo, where are you joining us from? Scottsdale, Arizona. Scottsdale. Nice and hot and juicy in Scottsdale, Arizona these days especially. And, have you gotten above 100 today yet? I, I to be honest with you, the Arizonans don't even check.

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We just assume it's coming. So I'm sure if I go out there, I could fry an egg on my sidewalk. Well, he's got a, YouTube channel under his name. Kazim Aslam as Lamb. And you can look him up there. We're also going to give you a link to his websites and everything else, but I will let the listeners know a little bit about you.

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I really met this gentleman through some LinkedIn contacts we made. Cicero, a serial entrepreneur, has built, multiple seven and eight figure businesses, including two successful exits. He's the founder and CEO of solutions eight, one of the world's top ranked Google ad agencies that manages over 70 million in annual ad spend for the roughly 200 clients, ranging from publicly traded companies, including major brands like Harley-Davidson, U.S. Army.

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Cosmo isn't just the successful agency owner, it's been recognized as one of the top 50 digital marketing thought leaders in the United States, by the University of Missouri, and was awarded the Arizona Interactive Marketing Association's 2017 Tim Award. He's the author of this book we're going to be talking about today, but also several other books.

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One is called the Seven Critical Principles of Effects of Digital Marketing. The other one is the top 100 digital marketing books of all time. Another one called you Versus Google The Very Unauthorized Guide to Google Ads. This particular book chasm, this is only going to be available. Is that correct as a digital download from your website or is is going to be up on, Amazon as well?

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No, this will be released as a is a quote unquote real book sometime mid September. But your your listeners can have it for free. We're given a free release away for anybody who's listening to the podcast, and they can go to the higher Bbc.com, the higher Bbc.com and download it for free. And it comes with a whole bunch of worksheets and checklists.

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And Greg, there's no ascension, so there's no course, there's no upsell, there's no where to go. And I only say that because I don't want people to feel as though this is like some low value offer that I'm making in order to get them into my funnel. The book is my life's work. It comes with checklists, templates, worksheets, a global job board like it's everything people will need in order to capture top talent.

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That is quite an offer. So for everyone listening, please go. It will have it in the show notes below. So look down below here because we'll get that link. Make sure you take advantage of that, because not only did he say you're going to get the book, you're also going to get some, other worksheets that you could use.

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And I'd really encourage that. So because, you start your book, this book, the higher book, by saying you didn't want to write it, you wanted to write about delegation instead. What made you realize that hiring had to come first? And how did this shift your entire perspective on building all of your businesses, kind of your empire that you built?

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Effective delegation presupposes someone effective to delegate to. And I think that's where most of us go wrong in the beginning is we think I'm so bad at delegating and you're not you're just delegating to the wrong person. The right person makes delegation easy. And to put that in, in terms that are accessible to everybody, the right software application makes prompting easy.

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You know, the smarter the software gets, the less intelligent you have to be about your prompt. That's why Google became the number one search engine we've been engaging with AI for, you know, decades longer than people realize because Google Search was an AI tool unto itself. You want your employees to work as well as Google used to work for you.

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You want your employees with Google, you go straight to Google and you're like, hey, I need the, you know, the coffee shop and Scotts. There's no other outdoor patio that's open until 10 p.m. bam. Here you go, boss. Right. Like just easy. I don't have to. I don't have to think through my framework and how I ask this question and reverse engineer and, you know, like, I don't need to be intelligent with request.

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The mechanism that I'm making the request of is intelligent for me, the same thing should be true for your your staff. Everybody who works for you should be smarter than you along whatever level of analysis their job takes place. So, like, I don't want a CFO that I beat it. Finance that I can outrun when it comes to a piano.

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Right. Like that. That's a self-defeating exercise. And yet most entrepreneurs, sadly, and I'm no exception to this, especially early stage, they subconsciously are terrified of competence. So they hire people that are manageable, that they that they feel that they can, you know, they can keep a grasp on. The problem is, is manageable. People need to be managed. And I think the exact opposite should be true.

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I think that the framework everybody should approach this endeavor with this. Let me go find a nuclear weapon. Let me find a miracle of a human who's who's just capabilities. No, no limitation, and bring them into my business and then unleash them to to to run faster and farther and with more strength and fervor and passion than I'd ever be able to muster.

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And at the risk of sounding horribly arrogant, I've done it hundreds of times because, interestingly, peak performers are not what most businesses are attracting or even trying to hire, so they end up being readily accessible to you. If you know the framework well, what do you think about the C players? Right. So I understand that trust is a big issue with people, whether it in a startup or an ongoing business, you know, this becomes an issue.

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It's like, hey, I've got I'm going to delegate. Like in your case, people are delegating to people all over the globe to do work for them. They don't sit in their office. They're remote workers. Right. And so there has to be a high degree of trust with something like that, that not only what your delegate is being accomplished, but the competency of the people is high enough to be able to perform it.

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You talk about this parade talent. People deliver ten x 20 x and even 100 x results. Most business owners think these are unicorns. They don't exist or they're impossible to find. What's the biggest misconception people have about identifying this level of talent? We are taught to hire people in exactly the wrong way. It's 180 degrees. We're heading in the wrong direction.

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If you take any business book that you've read off the shelf, Michael Gerber, Stephen Covey, Ray Dalio doesn't matter. Everybody, as a ubiquitous truth speaks about humans within the confines of the mechanism that is business as though they were commodities. Everybody and you have to it's a shorthand. It's how we have the discussion. So you've heard yourself say I need a graphic designer.

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I need to find a new lawyer. I need a doctor, I need a that's that's a that's a statement of commoditization, as though a graphic designer A and graphic designer B are interchangeable. The thing about commodities is commodities are interchangeable to the degree to where if you have an ear of corn and I have an ear corner and we swap, neither of us for better or worse off than we were moments ago.

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If you have a CPA and I have a CPA and we swap, my world falls apart. So thinking about people like commodities, while it makes for a good shorthand conversation, makes for the worst type of hiring because the way to buy a commodity is to pay the least and get the most. So if I'm buying corn, I'm going to pay you the absolute least and get the absolute most.

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And that's how a good commodities trader makes their money. You make your money on your buy side. When you do that with people, you get the worst people. And what entrepreneurs are taught to do is to hire people like commodity. So what that would mean is just to use round numbers. Let's say that you're hiring for a role that pays somewhere between 75 and ₹100, right?

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The entrepreneur is taught to pay 74.9. So if the window is 75 to 100, I don't want to pay 74.9. And then I'm going to try to squeeze as much out of the person as I possibly can. That's the way we're taught to hire. What I tell people first and foremost is when there's want to win and money is how we keep score.

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If you want to peak performer, you pay 10% more than the high watermark, 10% more than the high watermark. Now people hear that wrong. They go cost 10% more than 75. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, 10% more than the high watermark. So if the window is 75 to 100, you're trying to pay some 74.9. I'm telling you, you should pay 110.

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If you can afford to, you should pay 200. If you can afford to, you should pay 300. And people go crazy. Though I caution you to understand my business model. It's not viable. It won't pencil. It doesn't make sense. And what they don't understand is the pressure distribution. Because when you pay 10% more or 30% more or 50% more, you get ten times more, a hundred times more, a thousand times more.

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This is, by the way, I'm not being hyperbolic. This is not an exaggeration. This is a statistical truism. When I sold solutions eight, I had an eight figure exit with a business that had 80 employees. One human managed 40% of my revenue. His name is John Moran. He's the greatest Google ad man alive. That's the hierarchical distribution of the distribution.

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The predator distribution says it. 20% of people are responsible for 80% of outputs. And you think to yourself like, oh yeah, that's reasonable. I've seen that myself. But what people don't realize is fractal. So if you have an organization that has a thousand employees, let's say just use round numbers and easy math. I have a 10th grade education.

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Or if you have an organization, there's a thousand employees, 200 employees are responsible for 80% of that organization's output. And you go, okay, sounds right. But zoom in on those 200. Of those 240 are responsible for 80% of that output. Zoom in on the 48 are responsible for 80% of that output. When you do the total math, one person in a 1000 person organization does about 25% of the total output, and you can index towards finding that one person or more appropriately, the eight, right?

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The one, the Nio. They tend to be a little reclusive, but the 8 to 8 out of a thousand cash are they accessible? And Greg, they're everywhere. And they're everywhere because they are repelled and repulsed by traditional employment. Because if you look at traditional employment, it's people trying to pay less and get more. It's people making you punch a clock.

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Screenshot. Your desktop asked me to go P, track your PTO, do this bullshit garbage work, not recognize who you are, not give give you meaningful work. That's the majority. And when I say the majority, it's the vast majority. It's 99.99999999999% of employment opportunities are garbage. If you want to peak performer, treat them like a peak performer and they will come out of the frickin woodwork for you, man.

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And they will run through walls, dig tunnels, go around, repel over like there's no barrier that holds them back. They're extraordinary humans. And I've done this over and over and over and over and over again. Well, you certainly have the experience behind you. And so what you're saying is bold. You said that education and experience are secondary to tenacity and will for.

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Yeah. So what's going to make some H.R. Departments very uncomfortable. Could you share a specific example where you hired somebody basically unqualified who became like a superstar? I think real life examples or stories are really very relatable to the listening audience. They'd be happy to. I can give you 50. I'll give you three of my favorite, if you care to hear them.

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The first one first and you can tell me how well I do. This is my favorite story of all time. I heard a young man out of the Ukraine. I found him on freelancer.com. Yes, for $1,000 a month. He messaged me and said, I'll give you $4,000 a month. I'll do anything you asked me to do. He was going to college.

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He wanted to get married. He needed it to basically covers. Not in thousand bucks did that in. He was he was in Poland going to school, but is Ukrainian by nationality? He I found him using my system. He ends up being one of the best hires I've ever had. And Tyler started as my VA. I was just giving him boatloads of problems, basically.

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Hey, man, solve this, make this website faster, fix this funnel, figure out what's going on here. Can you help us with whatever it basically a firefighter. He ends up being so adept he becomes the tech lead at solutions eight, gets promoted to be the CTO, manages my entire exit, which was an 8 to 9 month proctored exam as far as I'm concerned, and is now my business partner and one of my best friends.

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Yvonne owns 50% of my staffing agency Prato Talent. So what I did was I took a VA my very for one of my very best Vas, and I made him a business partner. And now he finds and trains executive assistants for other people. And we've already crossed the million dollar gross revenue mark. So I took a child from Poland.

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He was 20 years old, and I hired him it he was a kid. And now, flash forward, he was a C-level executive. Manage the exit. A SoftBank backed exit, by the way, with Goldman Sachs. Ivy League types like we're not talking about just, you know, a run of the mill like he had managed a very real M&A process and is now my business partner in multiple endeavors.

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And not to disparage him because he's a beautiful human and I love him dearly and deeply. But there are other heavens out there. Yeah, there are other people that are extraordinarily talented, that are not being given the opportunity, that, dare I say, they deserve. I don't think people deserve much, Greg. I'm one of those you got to go out and get it.

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But I think people deserve opportunity. You know? I think they deserve the opportunity to prove themselves. Guys, what, what characteristics? You know, I have, three people in Pakistan, and I believe that my key guy is, like, your guy. Okay, but but the point is, is that what characteristics do you find you need to look for as a business owner in these individuals?

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I think I know them, but I'd like for you to tell our listening audience, what those are one of the things that I think when you hire remote talent has to be a high level of curiosity. They have to want to use their ability to find the use the internet to solve problems. Will it speak to you, whoever they can, to try and solve these problems?

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But what is your characteristics that you think these people possess that would, encourage you? Because you're saying we get the hiring wrong to pay 110% of what the standard is? Productivity, creativity, attention to detail. That's my buy box. Productivity, creativity, attention. Detail. Productivity is the most important by far. The other two can be taught. Productivity. Maybe it can be taught.

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I'm not good at it. Dude. If you're not proactive, I just don't work with you. If you sit there like a bump on a log, you could be the smartest, most industrious person in the whole wide world. But if I if you wait for me to come and give you something to do, you worthless to me and all my organizations.

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And I don't want anything to do with you what I tell my people. We staff here at one of my businesses, and I tell my ideas. You have to be the prompt door, not the prompting, because we're in a race against I. So on a long enough timeline, AI is going to get smarter than you. More depth in you, more creative in you.

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That's a fact, right? There's $1 trillion mechanisms going into this, but as long as you're the one prompting the process, you will always have a job because somebody has to come up and say, oh, we need a new website for this reason, or we should write a book for this reason, or we should launch a podcast for this reason.

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You're prompting. Hey boss, I feel like we should do this prompt. Proactive. Move the needle. If you're the prompt, you're you are on Universal basic income and 24 months guarantee pep money. We're looking at the biggest labor collapse in human history and the people that will survive that and end up with a job on the other end of it, are the people that are willing to be proactive.

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So proactivity is number one creativity. I think you and I are using creativity and curiosity interchangeably. I feel like you have to be. And I don't mean creative as like a graphic designer or a video editor. I mean a creative problem solver. Because when somebody comes to me and I say, hey, you know, can you do me a favor?

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Can you put the box in the corner of the room and they come back and they go, things are already in the corner of the room. I'm like, okay, now I've got to deal with this idiot, you know, like, be it, be under Intuit what it is that I'm getting after. Why is it that I would want this box in the corner of this room?

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What does the corner of this room mean? What else could we possibly do to accomplish this task so that you don't have to come back and play this iterative game of tennis where I have to solve this problem for you. So proactive. Creative. And then the last one is, and this can be taught, and I've noticed that there are cultural idiosyncrasies in terms of who's good at this and who's not, but attention to detail when we're working remotely, I do.

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I just need you to your eyes and cross your teeth. Yeah. Don't make me check your because you could be extraordinary as a resource. But if I have to check everything you do, I might as well just do it myself. Yeah, and there's some folks that they just get so excited and they move so fast that, you know, and you can build guardrails around those people.

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And some of them are worth building those guardrails around. But for the most part, I need those three not in equal measure. You know, some people are going to be better at some than others. Well, for anybody listening to this podcast, the the characteristics that you just mentioned and the skill set you mentioned, yeah, I mean, you hit it nail on right on.

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And that should be for anybody looking for anybody whether they're remotely working or not. But the reality is is that's it. Now let's talk about your fly traps, these clever tests hidden in your job postings. Because now people have to find these people. You mentioned one where you intentionally gave wrong login conditions during trial projects. It sounds kind of devious.

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What's the psychology behind these tests? Well, this is all stuff that's going to happen in the real world, right? So you hire somebody else, you hire a website designer, and you're an agency that that provides website maintenance for customers. What are the odds that somewhere along that person's tenure, they're going to end up getting the wrong username and password from a customer all the time?

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Happens. It'll happen day, right? Day, right? Yeah. Every damn day. So what I do is when I'm trialing these, these, these prospects, these prospective employees is I'll just replicate that scenario, but within the trial. So I'll assign them a task and then I'll and I ask them, I never tell them what it should be. Do. This is a part of that productivity thing.

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I'll say, hey, here's the scope of work. How long do you think until this is done? Because I want to know that they can communicate, they can manage expectations, that they can actually assess the situation. So if it's Monday and they tell me Friday, I say, great. I look forward to seeing it on Friday when I send them the resources that they will need in order to accomplish the task.

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I'll usually use like you could use Dropbox or something like that, but I'll use something they have to log into, and I'll send them the wrong username and the wrong password. And then I wait to see how long it takes for them. How many days. Because if it's if they if it's Monday and they tell me it'll be done on Friday and Thursday night at midnight, I get this frantic email saying the password doesn't work.

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Now I know who you are. I want somebody who's going to jump in and be like, all right, let me make sure I have everything I need before I commit to this deadline. And again, that's coachable behavior. But if you have enough light traps, you signal to people that fly traps are coming in. And generally speaking, the right people are put on guard and and they're on their best behavior.

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But when somebody is going through an interview process that is the best and most effective they will ever be, that's the best you're ever going to see anybody function. So you want to make sure that you're using that appropriately in order to gauge their efficacy as a resource to you. That's a great it's a great point you make, and I love what you did as a fly trap to test how soon people would actually respond to you to say, hey, I have the wrong login and password.

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As a matter of fact, I don't even see that as devious. I see that as a way where you're testing them. And it's a great way to test. Now you have this rule about never trying to retain employees, and you actually encourage their side hustles. Now, there's a lot of people that would employ, remote workers from other parts of the world.

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They would say, no, I don't know about that one. Kazeem, most business owners think that you're crazy. Tell us about, this. You have two stories here that support the growth actually benefited you for people with side hustles. Yeah. I got Jay Abraham as a client prospect. Do you know Jay? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, I don't know, meeting him years later.

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But at the time, man, he was like an entrepreneurial god. You know, I just never thought I'd be in the same room as him. And I get an email from a young man who used to work for me saying, hey, I have a client on the hook who's just too big for me. Do you want him? And if you flash back this young man.

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His name is Danish. Rafi Danish was a VA, did kind of menial work for me. You know, whatever it is that I needed done and was really good. And so menial work turned into real work, and real work turned into real projects. And the whole time Danish is building his side hustle while he's working for me.

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And I can see him. You can go to I danish.com if you want to find them. Let me see if this website is still up, because I'd love to give the kid a shout out. If you go to I Danish, Danny's, it looks like he took it down. And, but I could see him building his brand.

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And interestingly, he was actually replicating my brand a little bit. He was sort of. You know what I mean is being inspired, let's say, is, is the nice way to say that. And I was fine with it. I was like, dude, take it run. And his brand ended up outgrowing the role that I had for him. And so he went off on his way and I helped him do that.

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And I referred him clients. And, you know, he would ask me questions sometimes and ask me for advice and lo and behold, one day he turns around and refers me, one of the biggest prospects I ever get in my whole life. Another young man that work for me, Colin College Malbec. Colin wanted to start his own Google ads agency.

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Told me that in the interview process, and I said, hey, buddy, all I need from you is two years, and before you leave, you find and train your replacement. And he did exactly that. He gave me two years. He found and train his replacement. And when he left, he didn't want to grow a great big agency. He wanted to be a freelancer.

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Now, if you go to Twitter, College Malbec is one of the biggest names in Google ads. He's Twitter famous in Google ads. And so he attracts all of these leads and he only takes off. He skims the cherry from the top, let's say, or the cream from the top. Where's he going to refer the remainder to you. Right.

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So we ended up having a really good referral relationship, and I got the benefit of two years of a really phenomenal resource. So I don't think you can't retain top talent because top talent doesn't want to be retained. But if you show top talent the opportunity that is working with and for you, you get to benefit from these extraordinarily adept people and then we'll move on.

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They end up being peers. They end up being referral partners or strategic partners or I mean, gosh, I've I've had people ascend out of my organization, get jobs at big organizations and then turn around and hire us. That's happened twice. So I think you cut your nose off to spite your face when you try to shackle people.

00:23:55:18 - 00:24:17:07

Well, when you meet with people that are global, which are, you know, those are indentured servants, you know what? Those things are plays anyway. Well, your mindset is really crystal clear about this, and I think people have to cross the line or break through the glass ceiling to actually take themselves to a level. You know, it's like, do I have a growth mindset or not?

00:24:17:07 - 00:24:39:11

If I have a growth mindset, I'm going to be willing to do these things. So I'm going to be willing to understand how it's going to help me and them at the same time. So that literally it's a symbiotic and it's a win win. Now, look, you've been hiring internationally since 2014, way before Covid, you made remote work mainstream.

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Okay. What were the biggest challenges you faced early on, and what advice would you give someone today hiring their first international team member? Besides coming to you to do that. But yeah, well, and they don't need you to be able they can though. I mean, that's a point I should make out here. People listening today should really realize that this is what, you do.

00:25:05:21 - 00:25:26:13

And if they weren't, we're going to have in the show notes all the links, to the places they go. One of them. And I'm going to just mention this now, is, digital marketer.com. That's a no. That's not my property. I've, I've done courses for them. I built their, for. Okay. Where do you want to send people then?

00:25:26:13 - 00:26:00:10

Kashim Preto talent. Dot com Prado talent. Yeah. Okay. Roto talent is this guy's got a lot of websites. So you. Yeah. You get lost in his maze. So, but what would you tell people right now? They're listening, and they're they're about ready to hire people in Romania or Pakistan or Asia somewhere. Align your incentives. So what I mean by that is when you benefit, your resource should benefit and vice versa.

00:26:00:12 - 00:26:24:20

And that sounds you're like, well yeah dude, obviously. But most people don't actually build that into their model. I give you an example. Hourly work if you pay, if you work for an hour and I pay for an hour, we we know have misaligned incentives. You're incentivized to make tasks last longer, right. That's that's actually a horrible framework for so many reasons.

00:26:24:22 - 00:26:49:10

Really. What should happen is you determine what output is most valuable to you, and then you pay me according to that output. So to give you an example, when I was running solutions eight, which is the largest business I've ever built, we approached eight figures in revenue. We had an eight figure exit. I was paid on ad spend under management by the time we sold at $100, and that's been under management, and I charged a percentage of ad spend.

00:26:49:12 - 00:27:05:09

And to align my incentives with my employees. I didn't do this early, by the way, Greg, I made a mistake and I had to fix it later. Right, right, right. What ended up happening when I was paying people just a flat rate, I used to pay people buy, clients. It's once you have 30 clients. Here's what we call it a full slate.

00:27:05:11 - 00:27:25:01

Well, employees would get to 30 clients and had zero incentive to take on more clients. So all my best people would get maxed out and then stop taking clients. Which is interesting because when you have a client for a long time, they get easier and easier and easier and easier. So a slate of 30 tenured clients is actually way easier than a slate of 50 new ones, right?

00:27:25:01 - 00:27:48:16

Oh yeah. Which means your, your, your tenured employees could continue to take clients. Like I mentioned, one person was managing 40% of our revenue. So what we did is we changed it so that you were paid according to what I invoice the clients. You were basically a paid a percentage of the gross, which meant you had every incentive to grow and retain your current clients and take on new clients with no ceiling.

00:27:48:16 - 00:28:07:18

Why would I put a ceiling on that? And it put me in a position of really maximizing the value potential of the people that worked for me. It also put me in a position of helping them see why they shouldn't leave, because when when they got really good, there was the temptation of man, I should just go freelance and do this myself.

00:28:07:20 - 00:28:23:09

But what I did is I made them an entrepreneur. I'm like, you could do that, or you could work for me. I'll take care of all the overhead, all the lights on, all the branding. Bring customers to your door and you'll probably make close to just as much because you're master of your own destiny. And you can do that with most things.

00:28:23:09 - 00:28:43:05

Not everything. But you can do that with most roles. We should be gauging people's efficacy on output. The other thing that that does in a post a world is it incentivizes people to use AI to make things more effective and more productive. If you're paying somebody by the hour, there's no incentive to use AI because I just makes things faster.

00:28:43:05 - 00:28:58:12

Why would I do that? Right? But if you painted by the output that money, they'll figure out pretty darn quick how to go use AI to scale the output and they're your employee now they get to show you. So, you know, I mean, do they end up on the right side of the teeter totter in that particular fulcrum?

00:28:58:12 - 00:29:27:02

Sure. But every subsequent employee you hire, you know, get to train on how to be more effective. Are you advocating that those people potentially become vendors? I mean, it's a wrong term. No, that happens often. It happens often. Yeah. I had a young man who did our at solutions eight. He was doing, data feed. Data feeds end up being really, really important for Google ads because of, e-commerce clients especially.

00:29:27:04 - 00:29:47:21

And he got so good at it and so fast at it that he ended up spinning off his own thing. And I sometimes I would just refer to him, sometimes I'd resell them. And what was really interesting about that is I ended up paying him less, and he ended up making way more. Right? Because instead of me having to foot the bill, I would just refer a client to him that needed a data feed clean up.

00:29:48:02 - 00:30:05:21

Or if I wanted to, I'd white label him and mark it up. So he became a profit center instead of a cost center. Yeah. No, it's it it happens. You just have to look at all of the variables and opportunities there. Now, you've talked a little bit about AI so far, and you said that it doesn't replace people.

00:30:05:21 - 00:30:32:07

It amplifies the right ones. You just managed it a second ago. It makes you do your job faster. If you're being paid by the hour, why would you start to implement it, blah blah blah. With all the talk about AI taking jobs away, how does this change your hiring strategy? And are you looking for different qualities in candidates now, with AI being so prevalent versus when it wasn't as prevalent?

00:30:32:09 - 00:30:54:17

Oh yes. So I, I I'll correct, if you don't mind. You said that I said that I won't take jobs. I actually don't believe that. I think I mean, we know it's going to take jobs, but the direction is it's going to enhance the end of the jobs. It's going to amplify those people who know how to use it effectively.

00:30:54:17 - 00:31:31:08

Correct. So I think 80% of people are now superfluous to the productive process, meaning you don't need them. But 20% of people, you need more than you've ever needed a person because the the leverage in their endeavors. So that one person is now and they're a nuclear weapon. Everything they do gets scaled to an exponential degree. So when the past a good person was just good, now if that person's not great, every little thing they do, all their mistakes get multiplied by 100,000.

00:31:31:08 - 00:31:53:00

All of their anything they do right gets multiplied by 100,000. And so the people that you need need to be extraordinary. Pre AI there was a world for good enough. There really was a place where you just had your bullpen of good enough people just because you needed a pull out scale. Well, I does all the scale for, you know, the only people you can afford are truly extraordinary.

00:31:53:05 - 00:32:28:00

And and this is where I get really bullish. This is where I think education certification background and dare I say, to some degree, even experience doesn't matter as much with AI. I swear to God, Greg, with AI and the right oversight, I could do heart surgery if you gave me a weekend now, I probably wouldn't be insured for that, but I bet I could pull it off if I, you know, there's a lot of things you could do that you know, in your business, so much of what you're outsourcing is.

00:32:28:02 - 00:32:51:18

Pardon me, I wouldn't say the mundane, but, you know, some of it is a lot of grunt work. It's customer service. It's, you know, answering questions. So when you're using this, these tools, have you deeply gone in there AGI have you gone any deeper than that? Are you now building your own platform VMs and running them at your company?

00:32:51:18 - 00:33:11:07

Prado. Yeah. So what we do on behalf of our clients is if you were to hire one of my EA's, we create the Greg GPT, basically. And so as you interface with the IEA, that information is being captured in a way that allows us to accelerate the interaction on an ongoing basis. So you don't have to repeat yourself.

00:33:11:07 - 00:33:32:16

We start to distill what you need from a values perspective. We take everything that, you know, like a knowledge base, let's say, and we capture it. And this is especially helpful too, because like I said, eyes aren't necessarily returnable. So my hope and expectation is you have your EIA for 18 months to two years, which by the way is about the average tenure of any employee in any organization these days in the white collar world.

00:33:32:18 - 00:33:51:10

And when that person leaves, I just had any leave. She's one of the best I've ever had. Her name was Josephine a she's a child psychologist by trade. And she came to me and said, I need to go back to child psychology. It's my passion. It's my dream. It's my joy. It's my love. So she trained my replacement, and it was still catastrophically damaging because there's this person that knows everything about me.

00:33:51:10 - 00:34:11:23

She knows where I want to sit on the plane based off of the length of the flight. You know what I mean? Like all those little rules that are hard to pass along. Well, we no longer have to do that because you can actually plug that into a GPT. So when you replace somebody, add somebody, grow your team, you're starting to integrate this information into a mechanism that, helps buttress them in their decision making.

00:34:11:23 - 00:34:38:15

On a long enough timeline. I would expect that to go again. Tick. It's not a genetic today. I do think that there's a lot in the genetic world that we don't have access to. And I have reasons to believe that, you know, I mean, I, I'm a part of enough, groups and in enough, you know, column masterminds where I can see from the outside looking in what the big players are playing with.

00:34:38:15 - 00:35:08:13

And it's pretty extraordinary. What is, what is for the smaller people? Which would be even me. You know, in writing, sequencing through something like Zapier with its own AI to actually get it, to access an Excel spreadsheet, to do research, to then take that and create an email and all these kind of things. You know, I'm talking about the particulars now, and I think a lot of listeners, they're really not even aware of this.

00:35:08:13 - 00:35:34:02

I mean, as something is as powerful as Zapier, but now it's being built into everything, almost like it's going to make Zapier, totally irrelevant. Right? Well, we're going to we're going to be, the way to think about it is screen this. You'll know when a genetic AI has really taken over, because we'll live in more or less a screen this world.

00:35:34:08 - 00:36:01:02

Why would you need to look at a screen? Everything that you do from a screen perspective is done so that you can interface with a digital mechanism of some sort. Right? So it's like, input data capture, whatever. When a genetic I really does reach a tipping point, you won't need to be in front of a screen unless you actually want to see something.

00:36:01:02 - 00:36:22:00

So you and I are seeing each other's face right now. This would probably be a good use for a screen. You want to watch a movie? Even though, like, kind of wonder. But everything else from sending an email communication that would absolutely be screen lists. Now that's just a voice mechanism of you saying, hey, let Greg know I'm running ten minutes late and you don't get to choose if it's iMessage or email or WhatsApp or Facebook.

00:36:22:05 - 00:36:45:04

The AI knows oh cost and talks to Greg via messenger or custom was introduced to Greg by this person. And now it needs to go through this conduit in that way. So the the on a long enough timeline. It's really interesting because we had this, it was it's almost like universe is expanding collapse. The birth of the internet was the big bang in the digital universe.

00:36:45:05 - 00:37:11:20

And then it did this massive expansion, this light speed expansion, and it just grew at a breakneck pace. And and then it reached this threshold, this critical mass where I, you know, I don't know what it's like, the Immaculate Conception insinuates this and it it's like it's a stretch, this metaphor, horribly. But I was birthed and then I caused the collapse.

00:37:11:22 - 00:37:32:16

And you see that with ChatGPT, the difference between Google and ChatGPT is staggering and people don't realize it. Google is like a spaceship that you use to take you to different corners of the universe. ChatGPT is a tool that you use to bring the universe back to you. And so this, the expansion of the universe has now stopped.

00:37:32:16 - 00:37:52:17

And now we're looking at the collapse from our perspective and paradigm. Will the universe of information continue to expand? Sure, of course. But you're not going to be going to those corners. It's going to be coming back to you, which is why it's collapsed. It's like the gravity's collapsing in on itself. Which is really interesting. The generation right after mine, I'm four years old.

00:37:52:19 - 00:38:18:05

The generation right after mine is the last generation, I believe that will need to know how to really use a computer. Everything after that, the computer will use you. You know, like my kids, they do it now. They just talk to the machine. And the machine gives them everything that they want. They need. They don't have to be intuitive or thoughtful or creative, you know, like they right out of the gate.

00:38:18:10 - 00:38:45:09

The machine's more intuitive or thoughtful or creative than that is necessary to meet whatever demands and needs they have. And as they grow, their demands and needs will grow. But so too will computational power. So yeah, I think that all these, anthropic, which is clod and GPT and Gemini and, you know, on and on and on, you know, there's been a lot of, discussion about, them hallucinating.

00:38:45:09 - 00:39:12:10

Okay. So yes, it, it and it's true, I've noticed the ones that you use more frequently know you better. The ones you don't don't. And when you do, pick up a new one to use that you haven't been to in a while, it actually hallucinates way more. And this is my own personal experience. I don't know what it's like for anybody else, but the reality is there is a it's a challenge and you've really got to watch it.

00:39:12:12 - 00:39:38:22

I think we're still in an era where the human brain is necessary to actually audit the information that then gets generated by AI. When I say on it, I mean, at least look at it. Now, we could say, well, I'm totally dependent on it, sending out it. You even mentioned it before. Well, if somebody sends me an email and it's fed up, I'm not going to be very happy with the work they're putting out.

00:39:39:01 - 00:39:58:06

Right. And the reality is, when you're dealing with multiple areas where it's drawing data from, it has to draw that data and then synthesize it and put it together into something that can be put back out again. But I love where you're going with this. I mean, I think this book, hire everybody should get go to the website and get it.

00:39:58:08 - 00:40:24:22

I want to kind of wrap this up with you because you end the book by saying, I love you to the readers. Okay. It was, Herb Kelleher was southwest was the guy that was known for saying I love you and giving out Eminem's to all of his employees. That's pretty vulnerable for a business book. What role does genuine care play in your hiring and leadership philosophy?

00:40:24:24 - 00:40:55:09

I think we've heard it from you and bits and pieces of this podcast so far, because it is. But you're also an extremely articulate and analytic person. I see that, and then I see this real soft side of you, which is this compassionate, loving, understanding individual who realizes that the more compassion he gives to people on the human side, actually, the better the relationship's going to be.

00:40:55:11 - 00:41:21:01

Why do you end it with I love you, and why did you want to be so vulnerable? The book's about people, you know. I mean, at the end of the day, especially with the discussion regarding I. The difference between a person and and whatever else might accomplish a task.

00:41:21:03 - 00:41:42:03

I think narrows down to feeling. And, my three core values are truth, responsibility, and love. And I think I repeat them again, true through truth, responsibility and love. Okay. And, I think love is, you know, what is how does this thing go? And the greatest is love. I don't I don't think if you're doing it with love, it's worth doing it all.

00:41:42:06 - 00:42:02:03

And Holdren has a really good quote. He says, work is love made visible. Right. And so as we're working, I actually think we're showing love and people, you know, could be repelled by that statement. But I find it to be very true. And so in this endeavor, my hope for the reader is that they find someone they can love and who loves them, because that's what that relationship is in so many ways.

00:42:02:03 - 00:42:18:21

If you really love your employees, you know, and most, most good employers I know really do. I think the way you treat them is different, and then they end up loving you too. And everybody's pretty uncomfortable saying it that way. Especially the English language doesn't do credence to the word love. The Greeks, I think probably do the best.

00:42:18:23 - 00:42:38:02

You know, the Arabs and the Persians and the Hindus all have like, you know, there's hundreds of thousands of different types and delineations of love and love between different roles. There's love between parents is different than love between children is different than love between friends, the different between love between, soldiers. You know, if you're in a foxhole with somebody, it's a very, very, very different love.

00:42:38:04 - 00:43:01:24

I think that the employer employee relationship needs to be loving, and the most productive ones that I've had are that is a, I think it's a great way to wrap up this interview. We're going to encourage the listeners to go get the book here. You can get it at that. Tell us the website again you want them to go to, because they're going to get not only the book.

00:43:02:01 - 00:43:38:01

And like you said, this isn't for you to collect their information and get them on some list and try and prospect them for something. I will tell my listeners who trust in me. It's been a long time since I've had someone come on the show with is clear and is articulate as a message as you and be able to tell, or I should say, inspire people to look at this world in a different way, especially when it comes to hiring, because your whole first part of this interview was all about, you know, pay them what they deserve to be paid.

00:43:38:01 - 00:43:55:10

Right? And like you said, most of the bean counters don't look at it that way. We're going to see how much we can pull out of them. What you want to do is you want to see how much they will give of themselves. And I think that's the biggest difference. So what's the website they can go to get hire?

00:43:55:12 - 00:44:15:18

Where would you like them go to leave information, and so on. They can go to the hire Booking.com. They hire Bbc.com. Okay. And that'll be in our show notes below the hire Bbc.com. And what about Prato talent is it you can hire and hear from me. We find training staff. Vas. It takes a thousand applicants to produce one executive assistant.

00:44:15:20 - 00:44:34:18

I think I have the best people in the whole wide world. And you don't have to go through us. What I give you in the book is the exact framework I use to find these people. So if you want, you know, if you want the fast and easy button hire streaming. But I'm a premium, as you would expect, if you want to do it yourself and save some money, the book has everything.

00:44:34:20 - 00:44:56:10

Well, save money, but not time. It's the only one on time. Yeah, exactly. Who's to say is worth the precious commodity is our time. And, Kazeem, I want to thank you for your time. Namaste. Day to you. Thanks for being on and sharing your words of wisdom with our listeners about your new book. You can also we'll have links to all of the previous books as well.

00:44:56:12 - 00:45:14:08

Back to Amazon in the show notes. So please look below for those I can see. And thanks so much for being on Inside Personal Growth and sharing a little bit of time with us about your new book, your philosophy, and how you hire people, I appreciate it. Thanks for having me, Greg. I appreciate you.